(OFFICIAL) YongSeo - 용서 - SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 ♥ - Page 1096 - soompi - clarification of korean fans about misunderstanding of yongshin relationship

Home s oompi ent ert ainment c ouples - s hippers paradis e We are no longer allowing images and links to tinypic
ic .c om because they are reusing old url's and replacing old FORUMS RE CE NT THRE A DS A CTIV ITY B E S T OF. . . images with inappropriate ones. Sorry for the inconvenience.
[OFFICIAL] YongSeo/ /SeoHwa Couple Thread 2

Posts
1 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1102
FORUMS
All Forums SOOMPI EN TERTAIN MEN T k-pop groups & members solo singers k-dramas & movies sitcoms, variety & reality shows actors & actresses couples - shippers paradise k-entertainment general discussion k-entertainment current events lyrics SOOMPI IN TERESTS current events love & relationships beauty & fashion health & fitness food tech crafts, DIY, & home decor cars & sports anime, manga, & games tv, movies, & books (nonkorean) celebrities (non-korean) music (non-korean) SOOMPI COMMUN ITY
orchidia
Member
July 13
love so cute Posts: 7 9 edited July 13
This image has been resized to fit in the page. Click to enlarge.
what is he doing? is he dancing (as he said that he is dancing
king
, kicking or posing? so random chodding...
Hyun-i using yellow and she's pwettyyy!!! ahhh, she loves gogus gift as well as Yong-i...and they sure have similar thingy... like at Yongseo WGM... wherever they go rainy sometimes tag along with them... they sure rainy..
forums.soompi.com/discussion/359190/official-yongseo- -seohwa-couple-thread-2/p1096
1/19
7/19/13
general discussion members 411 high school students college students the real world (20+ ONLY) selling & trading soompi network artists performers SOOMPI FORUMS IN FO rules, news, & feedback
[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi
I believe that two people are connected at the heart, and it doesn't matter what you do, or who you are or where you live, there are no boundaries or barriers if two people are destined to be together (julia roberts)
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
rixanne94
Member
July 13
y ellowfever1234 wrote: Wow, Yong Hwa's upcoming Japanese albums are so....... Has anybody saw the translations on Lady lyrics? I saw it in English and Chinese in another forum (not sure if that translations is correct; therefore, did not want to copy them to this forum), I can only say wow, YH, now your lyrics and songs are really up to next level. I cannot wait to hear the song "What turns you on?" especially the lyrics (just looking at the title, it tells me it won't be something pure! hahahahaha). What a big change, from Love Light, Imagine, Love Girl, now Lady and What turns you on? <br />
Posts: 2 2 0
lol..yong what turns you on?when I heard the title..i laughed so hard,omagad..it sounds so... whats wrong with me?oh please stop with the dirty mind..its fasting month,please behave
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
ctalya
Member
July 13
Get This Look : Y oona and S eohy un @ Gimpo A irport (06/ 28/ 2013)
Posts: 3 7 9 edited July 13
1. Forever 21: Ruffled Knit Top @ forever1. c om $13.50 2. ASOS: Skater Skirt in Rainforest Floral Print @ us . as os . c om $13.58 3. TOPSHOP: HELENA Metal Trim Sandals @ t ops hop. c om ~$48.50 4. Melie Blanco: Turn Lock Satchel Nude @ ds w. c om $49.95
2/19
7/19/13
1. New Look: White Foil Geo Sweetheart Crop Top @ newlook . c om ~$20 2. O.SA: Short-Sleeve Lace Panel Cardigan @ y es s t y le. c om $48 3. Forever 21: High-Waisted Brocade Shorts @ forever21. c om $17.80 4. LOFT: Embellished T-Strap Jelly Flip Flops Grey @ loft . c om $19.50 5. Pieces: Maija Shop Shoulder Bag @ as os . c om ~$48.50 cr SOSHISTYLE
Beautiful pout from Seobaby - Debbie12 12
CNBLUE tops Japan's Dwango K-Pop ringtone daily chart

July 13, 2013 @ 5:40 am
Posts: 3 7 9
by starsung 0 493 0
S c rap
4/19
7/19/13

24 264 s hare CNBLUE topped the K-Pop ringtone daily chart on Japanese music site Dwango !
CNBLUE's 6th Japanese single, "Lady", ranked #1, while their previous single released back in April, "Blind Love", ranked in at #2.
CNBLUE's upcoming Japanese album, 'Lady', consists of 3 tracks, including the title track "Lady", "Don't Care", and "Monday", which were composed by Yonghwa himself. "Don't Care" especially is a track that gives out a shout of love and gratitude to fans.
There's more good news in store because it's been announced that CNBLUE will tour across 5 cities in Japan, kicking off in Hokkaido on the 24-25th, Nagoya on 2930th, Fukuoka on August 1-2, Tokyo on August 6-7, and Osaka on August 14-15.
'Lady' will also be released on July 31!
SEE ALSO: Te a s e r fo r C N BL U E's Ja p a n e s e s i n g l e "L a d y" PV re l e a s e d
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
ctalya
Member
July 13
@ furrychan 54m The oppa that earns 41 billion won, drives a land rover and weeps when he dropped a piece of meat ht t p: / / wp1. s ina. c n/ woriginal/ 6dc 04b6c gw1e4x ed8hhx vg205k 05k 1k x . gif
Posts: 3 7 9
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
12
LOL
5/19
7/19/13

quedheblue
Member
July 13
yong "RICH" oppa just ordinary people and adorable man in the world ^o^ i'm so proud of him hehehe.. i know he so love US "Goguma's" that's why he often wears our gift items. YONGHWA OPPA I LOVE YOU JUST THE WAY YOU ARE~
Boice and Goguma Posts: 6
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
rnia93
Member
July 13
I want to share my so-called-experience today, goguma-chingu & sunbaenim please forgive and bear with me if it's not something meaningful for all of us in general, just wanna share it.. ^^ I lost myself from watching over wgm-yongseo all day long, then reading the good-oldpost day thread for the friggin'-6-hours non-stop, enjoying the journey that we gogumas been through , (hell yeah!) struggling my sleepy eyes,and then I realize that I've skip my own birthday today, that so called turning-20-thing.. I only realize it 4 hour-late (4 p.m), like seriously, it's my own birthday though fufufu.. I found it fascinating, really.. someone like me, joungmal! yongseo is really something , that's only a few things that could take me away from
Posts: 5
myself, and yongseo is no joke for influence my life On past day, maybe I sometimes skip it because I slept before midnight, but usually if I pass midnight with eyes-open, I will surely thinking about some achievement I gotta do, like what must I change or what must habit I must start to be a better person, and then prayer for some wonderful wishing to be come true.. checking my phone to reply gratefully my friends that wishing my birthday, heck supposed turning
couple ever..
20 is not stopping me from hardcore-shipping uri
ok..I will stop to talk about myself now.. oh yeah, I suddenly think that idols in K-world need to copy uri FANS.. 1. Be cool with it, just like for many years they both only kept on saying "we are divorce" for the question of their relationship (heck.. it has many meaning anyways, so ambiguous tough) and act ordinary, espesially not to be so obviously to haters. 2. Dropping clue in here and there once in a while to chill, or tease, and have fun with the pro side (GOGUMA NEED VITAMINS kekekekek) 3. Not busted to the contra-side
how should facing the scandals without make fans that in pro or contra be HOT-BLOOD-
yongseo style
in case
end up together (OH PLEASE YESS) or just be a friend, at least this way is seems to be pretty good to keep
until the end when everything is revealed, whether they will antis from harm their carer.. they are still consider young , and I don't really want to stopping my fangirling side this early and I think many of us do so too.. So just keep on believe this REALNESS and MAGIC they do to us and give yongseo an extra gogumas strength! We ROCK! yongseo ROCK! YEAHH
Flag
Ins ight ful
14
A wes ome
LOL
kun_cheero
Member
July 13
RT @henny _JY H : VOTE YONGSEO !!!! Best K-pop Couple - ht t p: / / t . c o/ b8l7Za3Xn7 ht t p: / / t . c o/ ZS 02impl3E via @TheTopTens
Idol stars to perform

forums.soompi.com/discussion/359190/official-yongseo- -seohwa-couple-thread-2/p1096 6/19
7/19/13

Posts: 1 ,2 8 1 edited July 14
collaboration stages for 'Inkigayo's upcoming first-half-ofthe-year specia

Some of your favorite idol stars will collaborate for 'Ink igay o 's first-half-of-the-year special! On the upcoming July 14th broadcast, 4minut e will perform with MC ZE : A 'sK wanghee and INFINITE will perform with F.P.M (Fantastic Plastic
Machine)for a
special 'Inkigayo remix' of "Man In Love", just to name a few.
SEE ALSO: Wh a t d o e s L e e Sa n g So o n 's d a d th i n k o f h i s fu tu re d a u g h te r-i n -l a w L e e H yo ri ?
Lee Hy ori, S HINee , 2NE 1 , CNB LUE , K . W ill , INFINITE , 4minute, A ft er S c hool ,S IS TA R , B 1A 4 , Girl's Day , E XO , B aec higi Huh Gak , Lee Hi , V IXX, F. P . M , andA P ink 's E unji
will join in on the fun at the music show so stay tuned for this exciting
special!
ht t p: / / www. allk pop. c om/ art ic le/ 2013/ 07/ idol-s t ars -t o-perform-c ollaborat ion-s t ages -forink igay os -upc oming-firs t -of-t he-y ear-s pec ial
"Whatever the future bring in your relations, all of us, gogumas, are here to support and accept no matter what is it." From Gogumas to YongSeo
Must-see Videos for new Gogumas/YongSeo shippers Link 1 (Soompi) & Link 2 (YouTube)
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
hyunfans
Member
July 13
Seohyun Official Picture for "Hair Couture"
@Seilaalovepit Posts: 4 1 4
7/19/13
7/19/13
So pretty Hyun ah...
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
orchidia
Member
July 14
wahhh... goddess Hyun-i...She's doing well and growing pretty ... What's that in your head baby? is that product of hair couture? and you ride
love so cute Posts: 7 9
baby?... nice btw....

forums.soompi.com/discussion/359190/official-yongseo- -seohwa-couple-thread-2/p1096 9/19
7/19/13
btw... what's up with "What Turn you on (is this really d'title
)" ? is that Cn blue new other single? is this single will be release the same date with the "Lady" single? ...
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
humanoid
Member
July 14
ht t p: / / net iz enbuz z . blogs pot . c om/ 2013/ 07/ t v-s poilers -we-got -married-t aeminand_13. ht ml this couple is just <3 they make me feel like the old good time again I ship both . Taeun and YongSeo fighting!!
Posts: 1 3
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
ctalya
Member
July 14
annec wc cnblue forever 4m Yonghwa at Inki today pic . t wit t er. c om/ 9nc S Q9XCdC
Posts: 3 7 9 edited July 14
10/19
7/19/13
furry c han 2m Minhyuk has airplane hair today pic . t wit t er. c om/ 3GV qbc olwI
11/19
7/19/13
cr as tagged Yong-i has a new hairstyle today..
Flag
Ins ight ful
11
A wes ome
LOL
cherryongseo
Member
July 14
omg cnblue's performance today!! i just cant!! yonghwa looks super handsome today, those stare, so deep like hyunnie hehehe and minhyuk, you look so handsome too hehe jonghyun always make love to his guitar and jungshinnie knows how to interact well with the camera with that cute smile! awesome performance uri handsome boys, and yo~ong! i love love love you!
Posts: 6 4
so the boys stand at the back today, no yongwall for today hehe yongwall only for our yeppeo seohyun. heeee love love yongseo!
12/19
7/19/13
Flag
Ins ight ful
10
A wes ome
LOL
orchidia
Member
July 14
c herry ongs eo wrote: omg cnblue's performance today!! i just cant!! yonghwa looks super handsome today, those stare, so deep like hyunnie hehehe and minhyuk, you look so handsome too hehe jonghyun always make love to his guitar and jungshinnie knows how to interact well with the camera with that cute smile! awesome performance uri handsome boys, and yo~ong! i love love love you!<br /> <br /> so the boys stand at the back today, no yongwall for today hehe yongwall only for our yeppeo seohyun. heeee love love yongseo!
love so cute Posts: 7 9 edited July 14
Ahh, ne!!! I like the pics that @c t aly a posted above.... If gogumas have the link of today inki performance, pls share.... So, no yongwall today! Ahra....Ahra... No girls no boys, noone to guard, he can relax today ~(~) ~()~ (~)~ Selamat buka puasa ( breakfasting for moslem gogus)... Bless day for uri yongseo and all gogumas...
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
lovegirl92
Member
July 14
Kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Yonghwa today! I love his haaaaiiiiir !!!!
YHMABIAS Posts: 1 ,0 8 0 edited July 14
7/19/13
7/19/13
Whoaaaaaaaaaaa A lot of Boices. Love love love
7/19/13
Yonghwa and Jonghyun when they arrived in Inkigayo! Put your hands up if you feel like this! :p
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
twinkelpinkle
Member
July 14
@lovegirl92 put your hands up if you feel like this is so ... LoL
Posts: 2 8
16/19
7/19/13
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
fifiyon
Member
July 14
doerobbun .... please pay attention to hair color Yonghwa and Seohyun recently. Is not that the same color. Aiiiiiiish ...... lol. haaahaaa .... no wonder because they had the same salon. Courtship while hair dyed ..... uuuuh so sweet and romantic .....
Posts: 8 8
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
yellowfever1
Member
July 14
This put your hands up action reminds me of what he did at STRONG HEART, when he said SEO HYUN, I LOVE YOU. Hahahaha, YH, are you asking Jonghyun to do the same thing with you, 'confess to someone'. WINK, WINK!
Posts: 5 3
Flag
Ins ight ful
A wes ome
LOL
mintflower
Member
July 14
Hello gogumas~long time no see. I've been busy these days and you know, i'm bad at english, so i can't post frequently. This is not a big deal,just for fun. I think in korea, people who are interested or curious about yongseo is increasing. Korea no.1 portal site is 'NAVER'. maybe you already know..most of korean people use 'NAVER' then 'DAUM','GOOGLE' etc. What i want to say is, naver related search word of (jung yong hwa) is so funny lol. First,naver related search word of (jung yong hwa) pc version.(2013/7/14). This means if you type (jung yong hwa), these words appear below automatically. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - (jung yong hwa seohyun) (jung yong hwa park shin hye) ((jung yong hwa for the first time lover) (jung yong hwa because i miss you) (jung yong hwa hair) (jung yong hwa banmal song) (jung yong hwa i'll understand you) (jung yong hwa you've fallen for me) (jung yong hwa dialect) (jung yong hwa abs) (jung yong hwa gallery) (jung yong hwa guitar) (jung yong hwa height) (jung yong hwa seohyun banmal song) (jung yong hwa skin)
Posts: 8 edited July 14
Second,naver related search word of (jung yong hwa) smart phone version. (2013/7/14) This means if you type (jung yong hwa), these words appear below automatically. 33million korean people use smart phone:) - (jung yong hwa seohyun) - (jung yong hwa love you) - (jung yong hwa park shin hye) - (jung yong hwa hair) - (jung yong hwa seohyun love relationship evidence) - (jung yong hwa i'll understand you) - (jung yong hwa love you) - (jung yong hwa boyfriend picture)
17/19
7/19/13

- (jung yong hwa dialect) - (jung yong hwa banmal song) Important thing is, until last year, naver top related search word of jung yong hwa(i mean if you type jung yong hwa then automatically appear) has not many things about seohyun. Until last year, it only had 'jung yong hwa seohyun'. especially, 'jung yong hwa seohyun love relationship evidence' was never exist.LOL it was 'jung yong hwa park shin hye love relationship evidence' until all last year.(not this year) But in this year, for several months, 'jung yong hwa park shin hye love relationship evidence' is disappear in naver related search word of jung yong hwa. like magic. LOL. Instead, naver related search word of jung yong hwa has many things about seohyun, as stated above. This is not a temporary phenomenon. For several months in this year, this phenomenon steadily exists. At the beginning of the this year, yonghwa and shinhye deny their dating rumor clearly many times. and one of naver article(in this article, shinhye denied yongshin shipper's evidence)'s best comment is 'shinhye denied to this degree, two of them is definitely not(dating)'[+102, -8] and shinhye's naver star column(2013/3/4), shinhye wrote 'i'm not dating with yonghwa' herself. and snsd-cnblue music bank moment was happend during 3weeks. and yongseo villa scandal etc. I think this kind of happenings affect many people's mind. As a result, many korean people start to search about yongseo, and many related search words about yongseo appear in this year. As i know, most of International fans misunderstand 'all korean know yonghwa and shinhye are dating'.(right..??) But i can say confidently, that is clearly misunderstanding. maybe, until last year, many korean people think yonghwa and shinhye are dating because of yongshin shippers in 'nate pann(korean site like soompi forums, in this site, people discuss about entertainment, love, worry...etc things)'. And besides, nate pann can't affect common people as much as naver. most of nate pann users are 10-20's women. and though i'm 23 woman, i don't use nate pann. But naver users are all korean people. this is not exaggeration. Naver related search words indicate common korean people's life, trend, and interest. and many people search words about yongseo in naver recent months. This is clear fact..and i think this is very meanigful phenomenon.lol Thank you for reading my poor english post.. p.s : 'jung yong hwa seohyun love relationship evidence' is top ranked of related search word of 'jung yong hwa' for several months in mobile naver site, and yonghwa definitely realize it beacuse he is complete netizen.
Flag
27
Ins ight ful
27
A wes ome
LOL
yongseobeat7
Member
July 14
130714 Yonghwa Wearing Gift From Goguma
Japan -- Yongseo Flower Garden
Posts: 1 8 edited July 14
18/19
7/19/13
via Pejill & URIYONG2
Flag
Ins ight ful
22
A wes ome
LOL
1 1093
1094
1095
1096
1097
1098
1099 1102
S ign In or Regis t er to comment.
WHO'S ONLINE IN THIS FORUM

aggr ajengw oo aly s a92 anas tas ia2013 Cookie50 c har lenelola b euny oo1006 happy heehee jny nc nc o lily f eb c hip1530
112
angelic _nana dha1986 az n*gur lie dhedhede az z ii baby eimimie Blair e Meow elinangelia Br ooke N ety ar CC
dankin f emeka
dor iana
f anf r oms outheas tas ia iamamins uner ipi
Fr ank Jos eph jaees h152
gir lnamediandr a janeadelaine ktc v
gr eenc r os s jc hans h landy z
GuiTaec Fany Jer amon laur af f x x jes s ie11 lia2010 may ajef f r a neehr Ry o
is maz ir a89 jul6556 ly ns mer c ur ia Phi89
janetbel lailan
jtm22
Jujub Pr ac ha lis maknae
khaty c ute m4r iloe Mi
kidr oc kapr ie11 Mahmood A ls aad Moielle
lindas 55
ly na
mahogany 4 Mony
mar gar et galoter a mr ita
mc dmagda noniee
mc leen
mentos blue or c hid81
minoz
momc he Qiu_Che
my ir is hs pr ing86 r x thien
nov ilimz
Peana
pr inc eky uhaes ic a
r eminihope
r iendonghae
SauY un Har s pikeas o
s e7enbigbang
s eethes tar
SeungZ y _kangdams hipper s uer ainy 75 tienv o2 y ddelight
s hanay a
s hir uns aadon
s hr ly kim
s llf or es t
s tellar s himmer s
s tillday dr eaming tianhuiho xyso
s uper c holita
s w ens ens ev en tw inky s tar
taec guilov e unhs kikr 4ev er v ineela
Thea Mae Es tales w itty dba
Thuy Huy nh
Timnat2010 z her lths h
topaz er a
x ox ohapie
x uandi Chen
FOLLOW US
About us
Terms of service
Privacy Policy
Advertising info
Contact us
2012 Soompi Inc.
19/19

(OFFICIAL) YongSeo - 용서 - SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 ♥ - Page 1096 - soompi - clarification of korean fans about misunderstanding of yongshin relationship

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

(OFFICIAL) YongSeo - 용서 - SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 ♥ - Page 1096 - soompi - clarification of korean fans about misunderstanding of yongshin relationship

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

Home s oompi ent ert ainment c ouples - s hippers paradis e We are no longer allowing images and links to tinypic

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo/ /SeoHwa Couple Thread 2

love so cute Posts: 7 9 edited July 13

what is he doing? is he dancing (as he said that he is dancing

, kicking or posing? so random chodding...

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Ins ight ful

Ins ight ful

Posts: 3 7 9 edited July 13

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Beautiful pout from Seobaby - Debbie12 12

CNBLUE tops Japan's Dwango K-Pop ringtone daily chart

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

'Lady' will also be released on July 31!

SEE ALSO: Te a s e r fo r C N BL U E's Ja p a n e s e s i n g l e "L a d y" PV re l e a s e d

Ins ight ful

Ins ight ful

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Boice and Goguma Posts: 6

Ins ight ful

20 is not stopping me from hardcore-shipping uri

Ins ight ful

Idol stars to perform

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

collaboration stages for 'Inkigayo's upcoming first-half-ofthe-year specia

special 'Inkigayo remix' of "Man In Love", just to name a few.

SEE ALSO: Wh a t d o e s L e e Sa n g So o n 's d a d th i n k o f h i s fu tu re d a u g h te r-i n -l a w L e e H yo ri ?

Ins ight ful

Seohyun Official Picture for "Hair Couture"

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

So pretty Hyun ah...

Ins ight ful

love so cute Posts: 7 9

baby?... nice btw....

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Ins ight ful

Ins ight ful

Posts: 3 7 9 edited July 14

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

cr as tagged Yong-i has a new hairstyle today..

Ins ight ful

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Ins ight ful

love so cute Posts: 7 9 edited July 14

Ins ight ful

Kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Yonghwa today! I love his haaaaiiiiir !!!!

YHMABIAS Posts: 1 ,0 8 0 edited July 14

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Whoaaaaaaaaaaa A lot of Boices. Love love love

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Ins ight ful

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Ins ight ful

Ins ight ful

Ins ight ful

Posts: 8 edited July 14

[OFFICIAL] YongSeo//SeoHwa Couple Thread 2 - Page 1096 - soompi

Ins ight ful

Japan -- Yongseo Flower Garden

Posts: 1 8 edited July 14