FIRST Dr. RAJA RAMANNA MEMORIAL LECTURE Dr. V. K. Aatre Former Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister & Secretary, Department of Defence Reserch, Ministry of Defence x0 loa) Institute of Defence Scientists & Technologists (IDST), Bangalore Branch 03 Sep. 2005The Dr Raja Ramanna Memorial Lecture has been instituted by the Bangalore Branch of the Institute of Defence Scientists & Technologists (IDST) as a tribute to the eminent Nuclear Physicist, Technologist and Scientific Administrator. Dr Raja Ramanna Dr Raja Ramanna was born on 28 Jan 1925 in Tumkur, Karnataka. His early education was at Bishop Cotton School, Bangalore and Good Shepard Convent Mysore. He graduated in Physics (Hons) in 1945, from Madras Christian collage at Tambarm. He completed his Doctorate from London University in Nuclear Physics in 1948. He was offered a job by Dr Homi Bhaba, to start with, at the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR). Dr Ramanna joined TIFR in 1949. The Department of Atomic Energy training school was set up under the leadership of Dr Ramanna in 1958. He established an extremely Successful model for identifying, training and nurturing young nuclear scientists and engineers. Dr Ramanna made major contributions in the areas of nuclear fission and heavy ion physics during his stay at TIFR and Bhaba Atomic Research Centre (BARC). He was awarded the Shanti Swarup Bhatnagar Memorial Award in 1963 and Padma Shri in 1968. He was Director, Bhaba Atomic Research Centre from 1972 to 1978 and 1981 to 1983. For his significant contribution in the area of nuclear research, he was awarded the Padma Bhushan in 1973 and the Padma Vibhushan in 1975. He was a fellow of the Indian National Science Academy and the Indian Academy of Sciences. He was Honorary Fellow of the Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Bombay, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore and Jawaharlal Nehru Centre for Advanced Scientific Research, Bangalore. He served as the Scientific Adviser to the Raksha Mantri, Director General Defence Research & Development Organisation and Secretary for Defence Research, Govt of India from 1978 to 1981. During this time he introduced flexible complementing that enabled in-situ Promotions for competent Scientists and engineers. : During the period 1983 to 1987, he was appointed Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission and Secretary, Department of Atomic Energy,Dr Raja Ramanna Memorial Lecture v.K.Aatre Former Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister Iconsiderit a great privilege to have been asked to deliver the 1: Raja Ramanna Memorial Lecture by the IDST, Bangalore Branch. When Srinivasa requested me to deliver this lecture, I readily accepted it; but I did not know the people that he was going to assemble on the dais. I had to accept it. As you have heard from Dr. Krishnan, Dr. Raja Ramanna hired me and I owe a lot to him. When I was in NPOL, Krishnan was one of the three musketeers of the Naval Laboratories of DRDO. Krishnan, Late R.Adm. Ramanarasaiah and I worked as a closely knit naval team. Further, I have no hesitation in declaring Dr. Shenoy was my mentor in DRDO. It is certainly a great pleasure to meet people who in some form or other have played a major a part in ray career in DRDO. Not only Raja Ramanna hired me, but I have also had several interactions with him and discussed issues outside of DRDO. Lam also a lover of music and as some of you may know Raja Ramanna was a concert pianist. When he was a Rajya Sabha member, he was my neighbour in Pandora Park and there were many evenings which I spent with Raja Ramanna. The only thing I could not reconcile was the drink he used to have - rum with a longitudinally split chilly and a dash of sugar and a squeeze of lemon... He said “Aatre, why don’t you take this drink?” I used to say, “Sir, when you hired me, | did not bargain for such a drink.” He, some times, used to walk into my house in Pandora Park and on many occasions we have had discussions on various issues. It so happened that my father-in- law(a doctor) also came from Tumkur (the birth place of Ramanna) and used to say that Raja was his friend and first 1patient also. A common topic between us used to be my father- in-law’s family and I could immediately identify one of the topics __ and talk to him easily. Thus, itis a great pleasure and indeed an honour to deliver the first Raja Ramanna Memorial Lecture to an organization in whose creation had some role to play. ____ Three days back Srinivasa asked me, “Can you give the topic of your lecture?” I knew that his asking me to give a write up of ‘the lecture would follow this. I very rarely. write anything these days and perhaps most of us have now forgotten how to write. My second reason for not declaring a topic was - if you declare a topic you have to adhere to it and J prefer meandering. I am not going to talk about the future of Defence Research, not that it is not important or that Iam not aware of what is going on in India and elsewhere in this area; but I do feo! that as the curtain has risen on the 21* century, Defence Research is not going to play the dominant role it did in the second half of the last century. If you look at the total funding now for Defence Research and compare it with to the collective funding for non- Defence research, the former would be a smaller one. Yet, we ‘may see a Jot more weapons— guided weapons and laser weapons etc. Space is perhaps going to be used as the major arena where weapons would be heading. Yes, we are going to sce high kinetic energy weapons and weapons with a lot more destructive power. Yet I feel that Defence Research is not going to be the major one in the coming decades. Not because it is less important but the world has changed since the time the MIT Radiation Laboratory started jooking at communication systems and radar systems ‘development. Today virtually all communication, radar and similar such systems that are being used came into being because Dof either Defence Research or NASA related activities in the USA. Thus Defence Research has had its major role in the advancement of science and technology; but I don’t think it is going to play such a pre- eminent role in the coming years. I am not sure what exactly is going to guide the R&D in the coming decades. Clearly researches in the areas of health and life sciences, genetic engineering etc are going to be dominant. Indeed if you look at the funding of the National Institute of Health in USA, itis several times more than what it used to be. But even this is going to change. You must remember that at one stage research used to be such esoteric, that only a few people guided its course. But to day I feel the common man - aam janatha- have more to say about science and technology and hence R&D. For instance consider communications — Networking, Cell phones and Internet (I call them the jewels of last century’s R&D) —are being driven by people’s requirements. We should also recognize something else; being a dominant military power is no longer sufficient. In fact, the decade of 60s proved that just being an economic power alone is of no consequence. Military power coupled with economic power is required, to be considered as World Leaders. You can be an economic power without being a military power or vice versa. If we want to become an economic power or a military power, we must also become (the so-called) knowledge power. Knowledge power to a large extent stays with science and technology. That is where we scientists and technologists have a role to play. Today science and technology are so pervasive that they are intimately connected with everything we do and with every human endeavor. Sometimes I feel that this phenomenal development in S&T has 3a negative effect. The impact of science and technology is so dominant that it cannot be left to scientists and technologists only. The social dimensions of science and technology are so profound that the society and the common man have a major role to play. A few years back, when AICTE set up a committee under my chairmanship to write a proposal on how to reengineer engineering education, one of the things that we proposed was that engineering colleges should not become separate entities but must be a part of a multi-faculty institution. I tend to think science and technology education without realizing and assessing its social impact, is a retrograde step. Science and technology must incorporate some sociological and psychological aspects as to what it could do to the society and engineers should know their societal responsibilities... Science and technology shou!d be made slightly broader than what itis today. But you must also recognize that most of us do not consider it important to realize its dual edged nature. Nothing in the world comes without risk and science and technology have risks attached to them. I only hope that we have a modicum of wisdom to see that it is judiciously used but not abused. Those of us who call ourselves practitioners of science and technology must not only look at the social dimensions but also towards spreading the scientific temper. This important aspect is certainly lacking in India to a large extent. We must now look at how we are going to exploit this dual edged but all pervasive and most important human endeavour to attain what Francis, Bacon once said ‘utilitarian aspect of science and technology,’ ifwe are looking at the welfare of society. This profound philosophy was drawn by Sir Francis Bacon (even before Galileo) who talked about “Novum Organum 4- the new instruments.’ He wrote a book called “New Atlantis’ where he created an island — Solomon’s Island - where a group of scientists from various disciplines got together to look at the utilitarian aspects of science for the welfare of society. One of the major outcomes of this work was the formation of the Royal Society in England. We now know the mandate given to the Royal Society. But science and technology can create problems. We have to read Einstein’s letter to the President of America. When he discovered the relationship between mass and energy, little did he realize the use of weapons of mass destruction. Suddenly we find that there are a number of other discoveries leading to the destruction of the environment. Global warming can no longer be wished away. I have a feeling sooner or later, man’s interference, anthropogenic interference with the environment is going to create problems. However, I am also reasonably convinced that technology, which creates such problems, can also find solutions to the problems, provided we adopt it with a certain amount of wisdom. Soon we are going to run out of water — potable water. In fact people may wage water wars. I want to stress a little bit on two specific areas. The problem of energy and how we are going to solve the problem of the energy hunger of the world? Dr. Raja Ramanna was for years involved with nuclear energy and laid down certain energy policies for India. But nuclear energy forms a very small percentage of our total energy production. Is energy from oil and natural gas the solution? I gather 600 cars are added everyday in Bangalore. We no longer are satisfied with Maruti 800; we are looking for much larger cars. Air conditioners work 5throughout the day in several offices and in some homes too. Our consumption of fossil fuels is on the increase. Have we seriously considered the impact on the environment of all this energy consumption? But clearly we must find other sources of energy. Let:me share some information regarding this issue. Can we gravitate towards hydrogen as a source of energy and so called hydrogen economy? I am not sure when or whether hydrogen would become the ‘replacement fuel’. How do we store hydrogen safely? Several ideas including using metal hydrides are being talked about. I am not sure when such a technology would become wide spread. Fuel cell is a very important area of research. Tremendous potential! Yes, they are being used in cars. Japanis doing pioneering work in this area. Already the Japanese have found using fuel cell cars has a problem. They find it is good as a steady source of energy. But if you want to accelerate for overtaking or if you want to go up an inclination, ithas a problem. Japanese have started work on ultra capacitors (capacitors of thousand or more farads) made of porous carbon so that it can release immediate energy. Yes, perhaps there is a solution. Indeed at the Indian Institute of Science, there is a group working on super capacitors and hopefully we will also find one in the market soon. Hydro stations including micro-hydro stations could be a solution; but such stations are fundamentally dependent on monsoon and river run offs, and can face problems when the monsoon plays truant. . Is nuclear energy a solution? Varied opinions. We still have not, in my opinion, solved the problem of waste disposal. What to do with the nuclear waste? For the time being we are storing it.Well for the time being itis OK; but what happens in the longrun? There are suggestions that it could be disposed offin space. Even NASA does not seem to have agreed to this. In fact they seem to be reluctant to work on nuclear power source 1n space. Wind energy is a possible source, but dominant wind “energy utilizing countries like Belgium and others are already getting into problems because these wind turbines are interfering ‘with flight path of migrating birds and environmentalists are taking up arms against this. Can wind forms be established on a large scale is another question to be answered. Yes, solar energy is a sustainable energy. But the energy . density of the Sun on the earth, I feel, is such that we need very large solar farms. What kind of solar energy farms do we need? Can we afford that kind of an area on earth? Is it without risk? We do not know. But there is a solution proposed by the Japanese, and also NASA. They want to build a space ship, which will carry solar panels several tens of meters long, if not kilometers; collect all the energy in space (energy density in space is much higher), store it and then beam it as microwave energy on to an island off Japan and convert the microwave energy back to the requisite form of energy. Can we imagine the technological complexities involved there and of course the cost? Is this a solution? But clearly the Japanese and now the NASA seem to be mounting such a program. ; Ocean energy at one stage was considered to be very promising. America and Canada wanted to build a tidal power station in Bay of Fundy some thirty years back. They estimated ]its cost as two billion dollars then, and thought that was expensive. Probably it would cost 20 billion dollars today. What is the answer for all these? Can fusion energy be a solution? Decades of research has notreally yielded any practical solution. For fusion to take place you need to have a very high temperature and pressure. Further we need magnetic confinement to keep the plasma away from the walls of the container and prevent cooling of the plasma. So far the fusion reaction has been established for times ranging from milliseconds to a tenth of a second only. Yet, there is an international program now where the Americans have also joined the European countries in looking at whether nuclear fusion is worth pursuing or not. India is also likely to join this program. There are the Joint European Torus and the Japan’s Tokomak, which have been in existence as demonstrator systems only. But there is one other technique, cold fusion, which is being advanced and wemay see its operation in the next of couple of decades or so. I am not talking about the cold fusion demonstrated by Pons and Fleischmann, who got hammered because the demonstration could not be replicated by others. But of late there is a thought that perhaps one could use sono-fusion. Let me explain what it is. A few years back researchers started looking at what would ultra sound do to bubbles in a liquid .We know that acoustic energy is a form of mechanical energy comprising of rarefaction and compression of waves. If there are gas bubbles in a liquid, by hammering them with ultrasonic waves ofa certain frequency, we can expand and contract the bubbles till they implode. The pressure of implosion is millions of Pascals, several orders of magnitude higher than the atmospheric pressure. The temperature at which implosion occurs is several times the core temperature of the Sun. Hence the idea of nuclear fusion. Scientists have started 8building tabletop sono-fusion systems, which have been demonstrated, and they found that there, is a positive energy. Is sono-fusion the answer? Sooner or later we are going to see some of the practical nuclear fusion systems built. Where will it be built? Most probably in the US. Nowhere-else technology seems to get generated, whatever the reasons are. Yes, we have a major problem - the energy crisis. The demand is phenomenal. We must solve the energy problem, solve it soon. The second area I would like to mention here — micro and nano technology. I have been directly pursuing micro systems technology in the last decade. Though I am not knowledgeable about micro and nano science from the physicist’s or the biologist’s points of view, I am well aware of the potential of these technologies from mundane to the esoteric. To give a mundane example, let me talk about the smart shoes. These shoes have a special sensor embedded in the sole and as we walk, the sensor produces a tiny amount of electric current, which triggers a microprocessor. Then the microprocessor adjusts the tension of the sole. Thus if we are walking up the stairs, the shoes would automatically adjust its tension. If we are running, or walking on sand or hard soil, it adjusts its tension. Such a shoe will be marketed soon. Now we can well imagine the potential of such an application for diabetic feet. The Society of Biomedical Technology is running a programme along with a group of doctors to attack the problem of designing proper shoes for people suffering from diabetes. Let me cite another example of an insulin dispensing system. We must realize that India is going to have 40% of the world’s diabetics within the next few 9years. (This is not the area we should be leading.).More than 50% of them perhaps are illiterate and uneducated. How are we going to advise them and instruct them to use insulin? Hence the necessity of building an insulin dispensing system arises. SBMT through the National programme on MEMS is trying to design a system, which can, perhaps, be carried in a watch like contraption. Of course, we have to solve the problem of micro battery and some attempts to build such batteries using carbon nano tubes are also being looked into. Such a dispensing system measures blood glucose at prescribed intervals, and through a micro pump and micro fluid system injects insulin at the prescribed rate. Such a system may be available within the next 3-4 years. In fact there are several such biomedical programmmes running at the national level in collaboration with the Indian Institute of Science, IIT Bombay, and IIT Delhi. I can keep talking to you about the application of MEMS for hours. This technology has a market potential of billions and billions of dollars. Once you cross micro, the next step 1s nano. Don’t forget that this is not a new concept... Richard Feynman predicted this in 1959 itself by saying that ‘There is sufficient room at the bottom.’ But, these technologies create problems that Feynman did not envisage. A book written by Eric Drexler called ‘Engines of Creation’ in the 80’s talks about molecular engineering - assembling a system molecule by molecule - triggered the first idea that such a technology can be used, Again it is no longer science fiction. BELL Laboratories had demonstrated this a few years ago. But Drexler went a step further and talked about self- replicating nano robots. Many scientists do not agree with the dooms day sayings of Drexler as regards whether or not such molecular engineering is possible... We must realize that today’s 10science fiction would perhaps become tomorrow’s reality. Nano robots have already come in science fiction - in the book “Prey’ written by Michael Crichton, well known for his ‘Jurassic Park’. In this book, the US is carrying out research in some highly secure area and the scientists want to see how nano robots behave. They release some of them; soon they find these robots are self- replicating and great destructive swarms are being formed... This swarming theory is absolutely fascinating. Why do birds fly ina swarm? Did anybody tell them how to fly in swarm, when to turn or dive; they look almost orchestrated. No, they do not _ communicate across the swarm, they only communicate with their immediate neighbour. There are certain algorithms to simulate swarm behaviour. Indeed at the Indian Institute of Science, there is a group working on the so-called motes — small sensors that can be distributed and put together; they automatically network; they reconfigure the network etc. So Drexler’s idea may not be that far fetched. . T do not know how many of you have seen an old movie called ‘Fantastic Voyage’ where an Army Chief has a blood clot in an area of the brain which cannot be reached from outside. So the scientists prepare a miniature submarine and inject it into the blood stream. They keep navigating the submarine onto the spot and perform the operation and finally the scientists recover the submarine along with its occupants through a tear drop... Fiction, today, yes; but tomorrow we do not know. Before I close I want to know why in India we do not develop such a fascinating technology. Our tradition has been superb. We still talk about our having created the decimal system and invented zero. We talk of Charaka and Shushaka; we talk of ithe iron pillar and say what kind of tremendous technology we had developed in the early days. Somewhere along the line, 300 years of colonization have made us lose. In ancient times the present day pre-eminent scientific community seemed to be barbarian, when we were scientists. But to-day! Less said the better. The only solace we have is that we have a huge pool of talented youngsters. After a long time, I spent a few months in America this summer after I had left the place in 1980s. This time J had an opportunity to visit a number of universities, talk to several of my friends and this left me very sad. Our technology is behind times; in fact several decades behind. But, we have the talent. I addressed a group of alumni of students from the UVCE in San Jose, California. You know how many people were there from Bangalore Engineering College — about 150. All of them are doing superbly. So it is not that we do not have talent in India; not that we are unaware of what is required for science and technology. Somehow we fail to put things together. Some times I feel just because we created zero, whatever we put together seems to be tending towards that. Groups like the IDST have a role to play. Our scientists and technologists have a social obligation as citizens of India. We have an obligation towards the country. We have an obligation to look at science and technology for the good of the country, and perhaps make our dreams come true. I want to suggest that we must dialogue methods of triggering such developments in science and technology. Yes Americans and some others are worried about India becoming a dominant power. But, I for one, having had something to do with science and technology policies 12in ads am worried: that we are very happy with providing’ services and becoming richer, rather than actually developing hardcore technologies and marketing the same to build wealth for the country. We cannot do this without uniting academic world with research labs and industries, which people like Dr. Ramanna and I have been talking for decades. When the Indian: Institute of Science asked, “Will you join the Institute as a visiting professor”, I told them that I am not going to do research nor I am going to teach regular courses; but 1 am going to spend time talking to academicians and youngsters. Lot of work is being done at the Indian Institute of Science, which 1 was not even aware of. Can organizations like IDST play a role?, Not just solving today’s problems but looking at the future. Can IDST become the impedance matching device between laboratories like DLRL, CVRDE and the academic institutions like IISc, IITs and convince: them to look at both the present and future technologies. We have the wisdom: we have thé collective strength. We have all. the ingredients for success. We must be proud of our achievements. If people like Dr. Raja Ramanna had not carried out Pokhran tests and the like, what would we be proud of? Pride is essential. That is why when people attack LCA I get angry. No, it is not the greatest aircraft in the world; we have slipped in time and are unable to meet schedules; but we have done it. We have completed 450 flights with not a single flight having had any distress in ge ae This i is Sonigiuceite to be proud of, : _ Unfortunately, in India the technologists and scientists are kept at arms distance from everything and they do not seem to be in the main stream. We talk of scientific temper. Nehru talked about it long back and it is reflected in our Constitution. igBut do our common people have such a scientific temper? Obscurantism and blind faith still persist, persist widely. Can we do some thing? May I request all my colleagues here to doa little more than just solving the problems of DRDO. There are very few, if any, such organizations with such a high scientific caliber outside the Government ambit and, I am glad that I worked with such a group of intellectuals. Can we look at what is that we can do to the society at large? If we can do some thing like that, I think it will be the greatest tribute that we can pay to Dr.Raja Ramanna. [have to accept that I would not have been standing here, if Dr. Raja Ramanna had not convinced me to return to India. In fact when I came back and joined the DRDO, I went to Delhi to meet him. He said, “You have come!” I said, “You have offered me a job and so here I am”. “ But I did not expect you would join”, he said. . But I joined and here J am... It certainly is the greatest honour and privilege to have delivered the first Raja Ramanna Memorial Lecture. Thank you. 14Dr V K Aatre Dr. Vasudev K Aatre, former Scientific Adviser to Raksha Mantri, Director General DRDO and Secretary, Department of Defence Research & Development, is also the founder Patron of Institute of Defence Scientists & Technologists (IDST). He received his BE degree from University of Mysore in 1961, ME degree from Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore in 1963, and Ph.D degree from Waterloo University, Canada in 1967, all in Electrical Engineering. His major research and development contributions encompass vast areas including Digital Signal Processing, Sonar and Underwater System Design and Defence Electronics. He played a vital role in the development of a wide spectrum of electronic technologies and has spearheaded the development of underwater technology for the Indian Navy through the design and productionisation of state-of-the-art transducers and sonar suites. He has conceptualised and led the development of sophisticated Integrated Electronic Warfare System for the Indian Army and Navy. He has made significant contribution towards the setting up of foundries for fabrication of VLICs/ASICs in the country. Major R&D programmes of DRDO such as Light Combat Aircraft, Main Battle Tank, Radar, Torpedoes, Missiles, and engineering systems such as Bridge Layer Tank have had a very significant R & D and techno-managerial input from Dr. Aatre for more than two decades. These contributions will help to achieve considerable level of self reliance in critical Defence Technologies, while giving spin-off benefits to the society at large. He has also taken a major initiative to spearhead MEMS and Nano technology as National Programmes. Dr. Aatre also initiated a scientific approach to the Human Resource Development not only within DRDO but also at the national level through extramural programmes and closer interface with universities and academia. Partnerships with industries, both PSUs and private, have helped to facilitate the growth of industrial base in the country. Industry’s participation in R&D programmes of defence and consequent production will have a long standing impact on national development. Dr. Aatre is a Fellow of the IEEE; the National Academy of Engineering; National Academy of Sciences and many other professional bodies. He is a recipient of several awards including “Padma Bhushan’ in the year 2000 for his outstanding contribution to Defence Science & Technology.