The Art of Love

Discover the Keys to Deep Connection, Soulful Passion & Lasting Love

S e m i n a r Tr a n s c r i p t B o o k
Your hosts for the Art of Love relationship Series

Arielle Ford & Claire Zammit, PhD

Art of Love Relationship Series

Seminar 6

Marianne Williamson
Sacred Romance: How to Turn Your Relationship Into a Spiritual Adventure

Marianne Williamson is an internationally acclaimed author and lecturer. Six of her ten published books have been New York Times Best Sellers. Four of these have been #1 New York Times Best Sellers. A Return to Love is considered a must-read of The New Spirituality. Mariannes latest New York Times Best Seller is A Course in Weight Loss: 21 Spiritual Lessons for Surrendering Your Weight Forever. A Course in Weight Loss was selected by Oprah to be one of her Favorite Things in 2010.

Welcome to the Art of Love Relationship Series with your hosts Arielle Ford and Claire Zammit, brought to you by The Soulmate Secret & Calling in The One, todays leading online courses designed to help you manifest the love of your life. Todays Art of Love Relationship Seminar is with Marianne Williamson on the topic of Sacred Romance: How to Turn Your Relationship Into a Spiritual Adventure
Claire: So welcome, Marianne, to the Art of Love Series. Its so great to have you with us. Marianne: Oh, thank you for having me. Im glad to be here. Arielle: Were thrilled to have you, and Claire and I are both really big fans of your book, Enchanted Love, and we both recently reread it and fallen in love with it all over again. Marianne: Thank you. Arielle: So many of our listeners who are with us today have spent years and years working on themselves. Theyve gone to conferences and workshops and read books and been through 12-step groups and therapy. Why do you believe the next level of growth is an intimate relationship? Marianne: I was reading a quote the other day by D. H. Lawrence, and he was actually talking about Jane Austen. And he had two phrases. One was The learning of apartness,

and the other was The learning of togetherness. And I think both are important. And sometimes, were into the learning of apartness, like What I can learn by myself, working with my own stuff, that we, perhaps, underemphasized how important the learning of togetherness is, and sometimes its the opposite. Were so into connecting with another person and learning what we can in this relationship, that we might be tempted to give too little attention to the learning of apartness. Theyre both important, and there are times in life where theres nothing you can get in relationship with another person that matches burning through your issues, looking at them yourself, knowing that this is all about you. And there are other times in life where its that interaction with another person, what that other person brings up, what that other person is willing to say to you. Its one thing to intellectually know I have this issue; its another to hear someone say to you, When you do that, I back off, you need to know that. So there are times in life where life presents the perfect learning opportunity. But wherever we are is the perfect learning opportunity. But I think its clear to any conscious person that sometimes what we need to learn how to do it sitting in a room alone quietly, burning through, reflecting, understanding, atoning, and there are other things that happened when youre in that room with the other person, even if it means duking it out, hearing what they have to say. Not only be pleasure and the joy that provides growth, but sometimes, its the pain that provides growth, because theres nothing like the actual rubbing up against another persons issues that make your own stand out and clear.

Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.

Seminar 6

Art of Love Relationship Series

Claire: And youve said that love is a heros journey. Can you share more about that and that process? Marianne: Well, you know, in A Course of Miracles, and then of course, all the great spiritual literature, at the highest state, we are connected to everyone. There is no sense between us and anyone else. At the highest state, we realize we are one with everyone. But that level of spiritual oneness is not enmeshment. Its not co-dependency. Its not a neurotic need to connect that comes from the wound rather than enlightenment. Right? So the heros journey, I think, is finding that place. Its certainly finding that place of oneness with others, but its a place of oneness with others which is not where we surrender the responsibilities of personhood, but one where we are so clear within that space of responsible personhood, that we can surrender to another person without giving up the strength and the responsibility of our individuality. And thats a heros journey for obvious reasons. Its the path of the soul, of the spirit, of the person, to our highest possibility; but thats not easy. And anyone who has experienced relationship knows that its not easy; because the temptation is always one of two categories, and sometimes, most of us major in one category and minor in the other category, but both usually, we all find within ourselves the temptation to both, and that is either avoiding intimacy or seeking the kind of false intimacy which, really, we would come later to see within enmeshment co-dependency. Arielle: So Marianne, for so many of us, our deepest need is to be seen. What is this need, and by whom do we most need to be seen, and how can we make this happen? Marianne: Well, I think theres a slippery slope there, and the real trick of the mind on that one. I do think and I think it was Oprah who I first heard say that everybodys deepest need is to be heard. And I think a lot of times, in relationships, we feel that the other person isnt seeing me. So obviously, we want both; we want to feel seen and we want to be heard. And sometimes, Hey, thats a very reasonable request. We feel that the partner is so self-absorbed, they dont even have to be narcissistic, it doesnt have to be pathological or even selfish, but just selfabsorbed; to which, we live in a society which almost promotes it. So sometimes, we have a very valid issue which is, Hello? Im here too. I know we just spent 80% on what you did today. Did you know I did something too? Its how we feel inside, right? We all want to feel that what were about is given equal attention. We want to feel seen. But I think what Ive seen in my life and what I see in other people also is that any demand that we are making, even attitudinally, even if we dont express it on the other person, the ego uses these defenses. So you could take something very reasonable, what sounds very reasonable at the time, like Well, I need to be seen here too, and if we

are actually doing that work of the heros journey that we were just talking about, if were actually doing our own inner work, usually that kind of a thing is a defense where were hiding from ourselves the part that is ours. Thats always whats happening, really, when we project any need, demand, expectation on another person; because the ego is always seeking to cast the issue. To protect the issue onto someone else and not onto ourselves. You know, one of the lines in the course is The dictate of the ego in love is Seek but do not find. So what happens in a certain place, and I think this happens a lot for women. I dont really know the co-relative here for me because Im not sort of gazing at that at the moment, but I think in women, sometimes were so busy trying to be seen, were so busy trying to be heard, that subconsciously, were doing the very thing that makes someone not want to see us or not want to hear us. For instance, if you go around youre so and often, we all know this, you know, the womans father was not there for her, either physically or emotionally, so she started, sort of, emotionally dancing on a tabletop to get his attention, which only turned him off more. So then, later on in her life, perhaps, she meets a man who doesnt seem to be seeing her, and so, she responds to that by dancing on the tabletop. Shes just a little too much. Well, that will not make him see her; that will make him recoil. So I think, for myself, what Ive seen anytime Im saying the problem here is Im not this. Hes not that. Hes not giving whatever. If I go to the deeper level with that, that if we refuse to stop at the place of what theyre not doing right, if you just know thats a trick, you just know thats a trick. Then you go, Wait a minute. Whats really happening here thats mine and take responsibility of your for your issue. Now then, once we take responsibility for our own issue, which is not always easy as I said before. Love is painful. The heros journey, in any area of our life, is not always fun. So if we do that and weve taken responsibility for our stuff, then its not so much what the other person isnt giving to us; it just becomes data. Its just information. At that point, youre free. I now get it. I now see it. Its now information. Its data. This guy is so self-absorbed, hes not going to see me. Then, youre not attached to it. So youre not going to dance on the table to make him see you. You get what that game would be. You dont feel that neurotic codependent need to do that anymore. He just doesnt see. He is not at that place in his life, and its much more easy to detach at that point. Even if it means letting go. Claire: So Im wondering if you could share about, really, how we can begin to consciously develop, spiritually, in our relationships and respond to a lot of these dynamics, in a way that will forward our own growth and evolution.

Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.

Art of Love Relationship Series

Seminar 6

Marianne: Well, weve always heard the line, all of us; that Loves brings up everything unlike itself, and I think anybody whos either worked on themselves or been deeply in love knows that thats true. All the deep internal chaos issues that are still unreconciled or unresolved, this goes back into why as intro-ed in Enchanted Love, some work doesnt come up until youre in a relationship. Sometimes, you say to yourself, Oh, Ive grown through that one. Well, its not so much that youve grown through that one; it just hasnt come up in the last few years, because you havent been in a situation that brought it up. Right? And then, you get new relationship, Oh, theres that ugly stuff again. Its coming up. And when you realize when you contextualize a romantic relationship within a sense of what is the spiritual journey here, which means the perfection of the individuals, to come to a person not where youre bringing your neurosis to somehow conspire with their neuroses so both of you remain weak, but rather realize that the goal here is for both of us to become as strong as we can be. However, their weakness is going to come up to meet my weakness. In A Course of Miracles, it talks about how relationships are assignments, and we are brought together with people with whom there is the maximum learning opportunity, like when the geologist rubs amethysts, emeralds, rubies up against each other, and thats how the rough emerald is made smooth. Well, thats what happens in relationship. So you go into it knowing that, and its painful. Its painful to know not only will my stuff come up; my ugliness is going to be brought up here. My temptation to just go cold and withdraw, and/or my temptation to grasp and get needy or control whatever it is; when you know that and you also know and it is only reasonable to assume, because this person loves me, because of what were involved in, whatever their shadow in all this connection stuff is liable to come up, then you dont wake up in the morning giddy. You wake up in the morning in a mature joy, which means a realization that the world is speeding forward, everybodys being called right now to their highest, and anything that has to be looked at, in order for us to transmute and burn through, to become the people that were capable of being, is likely to happen; you really feel that intensity right now. To me, the most powerful preparation, as it were, is prayer, meditation, a serious spiritual path. If youre fortunate enough to have a partner who goes there too, thats really a blessing. But even if they dont, as you do yours. And then you just have its interesting. It doesnt mean that our issues come up any less. It means that were aware as our issues are coming up. Now, sometimes its still very painful because what happens, particularly in love and relationships, is that your issue can come up, you know its your issue, and you still feel youre hitting a brick wall with that other person. And I think this is where the

issue of availability comes in, and I could be wrong, Im sure there are men who would disagree with this, so maybe Im completely off here, but it seems to me that women tend to have a little more Can we just stay in and work on this. Availability to go through the fire, like when Chaka Khan sings Go through the fire, thats what going through the fire is; not just going through the fire with the external issues, but the internal issues. When you do that, it drives me crazy; when you do that, it drives me crazy. Okay. Well then, lets say goodbye, or not, right? And if we, at those moments, even if you have someone who is willing at that moment to say, Okay, weve gone as far as this conversation can go, and were even, we are now getting on thin ice, because if we keep talking like this, we can actually hurt each and wound each other. So lets stop right here, right now and say a prayer. And then, often, what happens then, as you go into the work of apartness, like youve just had this two-hour conversation with your partner, youve got to the point where all you could do was just say a prayer, then you separate, and amazing things happen, because thats when the Spirit of God rearranges your perceptions. And in the learning of apartness, the space that is very important, because then, sometimes you get it, you see it, its like after that conversation, you go away, you go onto the beach or into the woods, and like I got it. I see it. And then, you avoid the temptation to call immediately to say what you just saw. You know what I mean? I have to tell you, I just see that but a more elegant-paced communication, as is appropriate, and then, that learning of togetherness and learning of apartness are both taking place. And it is a journey and it is the path, and its not always fun, and the rewards are like nothing else in life. Arielle: So Marianne, for those who are in a relationship where theyre with a partner who doesnt necessarily want to participate in this growth or cant do the deeper conversation, can one person shift the dynamic? Marianne: That is such an important question, and the answer, from a spiritual perspective, is a huge yes. A Course of Miracles has a point where it says, Whoever even if the other person is not even if its only one surrendering to the situation to the Holy Spirit, and then, it put in parentheses Whoever is saner at the time. You know, I went through things in my life as well. The problem here is hes not into this conversation, hes not into the work. Well, it was such BS. The problem was my spiritual superiority, feeling so spiritual superiority, because it was bringing up my stuff regardless of what his stuff was to learn; because were really big at that. Were really big at (what do they say in AA?) taking the other persons inventory. And the problem here is that theyre not doing the work. When until we know for sure that weve done ours in a situation, and I think with a

Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.

Seminar 6

Art of Love Relationship Series

higher conscious community, just like with anything else like this, its very easy to hide behind it, and to use the vernacular as part of our defense mechanism. Until you know for sure that you are dealing with your own issues here, then this idea of projecting onto the other person that the problem is that theyre not into this conversation maybe theyre not. But maybe the fact that theyre not is exactly whats perfect for you because of what it brings up in you in terms of judgment, etc. Now, once again, once youve gotten to the point that youre clear, you have done your work, then it just might be, You know what, thats data; you kind of dont want to be in a relationship with somebody who doesnt go there. Thats valid. But that comes from a very different place at that point than this projection that the problem here is that, as opposed to first looking to ourself. And theres a difference. For me personally, its one thing to be with someone who, in terms of their values and principles and sense of a higher power, doesnt have that kind of love perspective on life, that I couldnt be. That would be hard for me, because this conversation is too central to my existence. But on the other hand, sometimes, a person isnt into it the way everybody on this call is into it, but they live it. And sometimes, the fact that someone lives it, whether or not they name it the way we name it, makes them more than adequate spiritual partners. Everybodys on a spiritual path; a lot of people just dont know it. Arielle: I love the way you brought that up, Marianne, because its so true. People express their spirituality it in different ways, and I know I talk to a lot of women who are looking to manifest the soulmate, and they always have this thing, Oh, hes got to be spiritual. But its like if theyre not behaving spiritually the way they behave, then theyre discounting them, when in fact, theyre good men who care about things in a deep way, and their actions and behavior are certainly spiritual. Theyre just not reading the same books. Marianne: Thats right. I agree entirely. And you see how thats just a defense mechanisms; one of those seek the love, but do not find. Thats just youre getting rid of the possibility and calling it wisdom. Claire: So we can start just then keeping our attention on ourselves and whats coming up and where we need to be growing and developing and stepping into that. And that will create a space for the higher spiritual possibilities of the relationship to be realized? Marianne: Well theres common parlance these days about staying on your own side of the net, which is very wise. This is your issue. Dont go making it about their issues. Stay on your own side of the net. And absolutely, that creates the higher possibility, because that puts you into that space I was talking
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about earlier, where you are highly individualized, you were taking responsibly for yourself as an individual. It doesnt mean anything to surrender yourself if you dont first own yourself. If youre surrendering yourself before you really own yourself, then once again, thats not surrender; thats co-dependency, thats enmeshment, all that stuff. And it doesnt feel good to the other person. It doesnt feel to, a man for instance, like you just surrendered. It feels like you just smothered me or hovered over me, right? Claire: Thats really thats such a powerful and important point. Can you say more about what is to truly own yourself, and then, surrender to the relationship? Marianne: Well, when we talked earlier, the D. H. Lawrence, learning of apartness versus learning of togetherness. The learning of apartness is where, like lets say, youre doing your prayers in the morning. You might even say a prayer with a partner. You might even be meditating in the same room as a partner. But the meditation is going on inside you. The issues that are coming up for you to review, to look at, to burn through, to reflect on a much, to atone for, to make amends for, theyre yours alone. And one of the best ways we show up for a relationship, whether its in terms of those internal issues or anything else, is to by appropriately taking care of ourselves. If I go to the gym, if I eat well, if I work on myself, if I read books, if Im cultured, if Ive got a dynamic life, I then have more to bring to the relationship. Right? Because Im a more interesting person at the end of the day. Well, the same is true on internal plane. In fact, even more so. Because if Im working on my own issues, therapy, friends, who I think our generation wow, I think one of the big mistakes we tend to make, and that maybe women do this more. I dont know. We bring everything to the partner. That was something our generation started. I dont think our my parents did that. Some things you talk to your girlfriends about it; dont bring it to him. You talk to your therapist about it; dont bring it to him. You do your spiritual support group, whatever; dont necessarily bring it to him. Dont load that on the relationship. Thats you working on you. And then, where you get from working on you makes you more beautiful, and thats what you bring to him. You see what Im saying? That you bring him the results. If you bring him the process, its odd, isnt it? Its like if you bring in the process, the result youll never get to it the same way. Arielle: And it sort of takes out all the mystery. Marianne: Yes. Absolutely. And when a woman loses her mystery; forget it. So I think your point is so right, Arielle. Its a complete demystification. Arielle: So Marianne, once we own ourselves, whats the highest role we can play for our partner?

Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.

Art of Love Relationship Series

Seminar 6

Marianne: Well, if were talking about heterosexual relationships, a woman who owns herself okay, now were getting into that deep psycho-erotic stuff. A woman who really owns herself in the best sense, a man wants to own. Right? You dont have to do anything at that point, because then, youre in your magnet space. But if Im not owning it and Im grabbing for you in a kind of connection that Im telling myself at the moment is love and surrender, it doesnt feel that way to the man. But if we are in a place now once again, then you have that double thing, but are you then going into avoidance. But if youre not in avoidance, youre in readiness. Its a difference its when you cross over from need into desire. I love the Pat Allen line, A man produces into a womans desire. But he doesnt produce into a womans need. Right? Need repels a man, because he experiences it as control. But pure desire, which is that place of I dont need you baby, but I sure would like it. Its magnetic. Does that make sense? Arielle: It explains so much. I really love that. Claire: We have to really own ourselves as women for the surrender to really be real. Marianne: Right. Because then it is real. Claire: Yes. Marianne: Then it is real. Theres something Im surrendering, which is my aloneness, not my self-fullness, but my aloneness; because at that highest level of individuality in a spiritual sense, we want to connect. Theres an alchemical principle called separacio which is where it says that the elements have to be separated out and become most fully themselves, and then, they can join at the highest level with someone else. You see this ethnically. Were women. Im Jewish. I think at least a couple of us here are Jewish. If I feel that youre not giving me proper respect as a woman, then something in me wants to make sure I get it. Once I get it, I can get off it. Its not part of my conversation. If I feel Im respected as a Jew, its not even part of our conversation. But if I feel somebody not giving it to me, like any kind of anti-Semitism, then Im on it. Are you with me? Once you have something, you can get off it. Once its given, its due, then you can let it go. So you dont have to and that even goes back into wanting to be seen. If I am really in my illumined place, he cant not see me. Claire: A lot of these tensions and frustrations really disappear when we actually shift our own center and show up in this way of being self-possessed as youre describing. Marianne: Well, that is the spiritual. That right there is the essence of spirituality, as A Course in Miracles says, You think you have many different problems, but you really only have one, and that is your separation from God, or its like someone who

does transcendental meditation, and issues just kind of right themselves. This is the difference between a western and an eastern psychotherapeutic approach. In the West, what we tend to do, and I think in a very erroneous way, we have all bought into this myth that the way to get rid of and it is just a myth, thats all that it is, but were all enthralled by it. We accept it as its a truism, that we need to disenthrall ourselves of, which is that To work on my issues, what I have to do is focus on getting rid of the issue. Now, do I have to see it in order to release it? Yes. As A Course in Miracles says, I cannot take from you what you will not release to me, but the release it to the purifier. As A Course says, Do not try to purify yourself before coming to me. I am the purifier. Now, in the Eastern religions, its different. In the Eastern religion, they say Go for God and all that is not authentically you will drop. So you see what I call the mystical third. You see why God is the glue, because if I make of my primary relationship, if you make your primary relationship God (as you understand God), if you make that your primary relationship, then you will find yourself a right relationship with other human beings. If you have a fractured relationship with your divine source, you will have fractured relationships with other human beings, because where I am fractured from my source, I am fractured from my true self with a capital S. So thats my brokenness, so what I will bring into my relationships and it will show up as a brokeness in the relationship. And then, I will try to fix it on the level of the relationship, but the level of the relationship is a reflection of the deeper brokenness, which is the gap between me and my true self. You see what Im saying? Now, thats also why some of these people say, well, I dont want to get into this God stuff, thats just a crutch. Well hello, if you dont lean on God, you will either lean on people or substances. Youre going to lean on somebody. When Bob Dylan sings, Youre going to have to serve somebody, it might be the Devil, it might be Lord, but youre going to have to serve somebody. What co-dependency is for instance is its idolatry. Its when we make the other person that which we experience as the source, and so, we worship that, and we want that, and we have that relationship that were going to end. Once again, that does not build relationship. When we make the man our idol, that is the source of my comfort, that is the source of my good, that is the source of my whatever, it just sends him away, because idols fall apart. But if we make God the source, to make God the source of my good, God the source every thought like that is a healing, is a reweaving of our own internal matrix, making us full and healed and whole. And then, we show up for the man, and hes like, Hey baby. And he might not even know how much therapy you

Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.

Seminar 6

Art of Love Relationship Series

went through that day, how many books you read, how much meditation you did, all the work you did; he doesnt need to. So like Arielle was saying, Dont demystify it. All you need to know is how happy he is to see you. Arielle: And lets talk a little bit about mens essential nature is to make us happy. Marianne: I think thats true. Once again, that line, Men produce into a womans appetite. So okay, lets talk about it. Because I do agree with that concept. Yes. Arielle: Yes. And I think maybe, one of the things we have to do is really show when were happy, and maybe thats a big smile and a beautiful tone of voice and showing up receptive and connected. Marianne: And showing up happy. Arielle: Happy. Right. Marianne: I agree with you entirely, because a man does want to make us happy, but when he experiences us as beings waiting for him to make us happy, that does not make him want to make us happy, because he is experiencing himself, and rightfully so, as subtly controlled. Arielle: Right. Marianne: Hes more being drawn into our web, but than being invited into our house. Claire: Say more about that, because I really think thats a really deep point that youre touching on. Like when were unconscious, were needy, were pulling, were looking to him as our source. Marianne: Well, in any area of life, relationships or anything else, abundance attracts abundance and lack attracts lack. So if I think Im lacking happiness, but you can give it to me, thats not where abundance comes from. Abundance comes from abundance, where you meet him. One of those why dont you try giving what it is you want to receive type of thing. And I think that our generation is far too emotionally self-indulgent, far too emotionally self-indulgent. And sometimes, what were looking for is one tweak of behavior modification away. I think so much these years about my parents relationship, and how my mother prepared herself to meet my father when he would come home at the end of the day. She worked it; the way she was dressed, the way the house was, her attitude, her energy. She met him with something. She wasnt waiting for him to come lift her up. She saw his she realized he had a day too. Hello? Right? You think youve been through so much, well, so has he. And are you the instrument there to not make him happy in the sense

of wanting to give him what he can only get from God, but show up with the energy. We get from others what we already have. Notice how the rich get richer. Claire: Well, it seems like this orientation around owning ourselves and keeping our attention on our relationship with God is actually the key to getting what we want in our relationship with others. Marianne: Absolutely. And once again, if youd look at the spiritual principle, its because once you realize you already have everything, then the way it appears in the world is that you get everything you want. So thats really significant. When you know within you already have everything, theres nothing another human being can complete. You already have everything because you are one with God, and the entire Universe is within you. You already have everything. Then, when you are in that place in consciousness, then anything in the world, any place in the world where there is a lack, what will then unfold in time and space is you will then attract the closing of that gap, and it will appear as you getting what you want. If I feel, however, that I dont have everything I want, I dont have everything I need, then I have a core belief that I lack. And all the Universe does is to reflect back to us our core beliefs. So if I think I like, but Im looking to the man to fill me, I will never find a man to fill me. If I realize that I have everything, because Im a complete human being in God, and men will be tripping over themselves to give me what I want. Arielle: So what are some of the core practices we can do? Marianne: Well, I believe that there is, for each of us, a teaching that subconsciously reaches out we subconsciously feel is reaching out to us. Im a student of A Course of Miracles. Some people are students of some of the more Eastern techniques and practices; Buddhists, for instance. Some people are very involved with things like transcendental meditation. Theres Eastern, theres Western, theres the Esoteric, theres the non-Esoteric. I think for most of us, at this point, there are two categories. Theres one category of people, who kind of at this point, have read enough and done enough that we know what speaks to us. We just dont do it necessarily. And then, theres another category of people who honestly dont know, but if you pray and ask, books will literally fall at your feet. Somebody will just mention a lecture or a class or a seminar, and youll find yourself there. Once you are open to it, it will appear. I was talking at my lecture the other night about people who do resonate not A Course of Miracles does not claim to be for everyone. Im not it doesnt say that it is. If its for you, youd know it. But there are many people who come to my lectures,

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Art of Love Relationship Series

Seminar 6

theyre listening to A Course of Miracles principles every week. Clearly, that is what they resonate with. But I will hear them say things to me about the workbook, which often asks you to remember a particular sentence to the best of your ability at the beginning of every hour or is to spend five minutes thinking about it. And so many times, people will I will hear people say, I cant. Ill say, Do you do the workbook? And theyll say, Yes, but its hard. So this is what I was saying in my lecture the other night. Were a generation that will go to a Chinese medicine doctor, and find our self saying something like the following: Okay. Now I take let me write this down. I take the six tablets. So you want me to make the tea. Right. This is the herb I use for the tea. Right? So how many --- what do I do, one every three hours. Right? And I should wake up in the middle of the night. Okay. So every three hours, then I take these six tablets. Okay. Now, do I or do I not take this powder right after I make that. Okay. I got it. Okay. So thats two-and-a-half hours later. Right? Okay. So if I do that on Monday and Wednesday, on Friday youre saying I dont take the powder? and it will go on and on, and were writing it down. When we take the tablets and when we do the powder and how we make the tea. We will spend so much time. But notice how when it comes to a meditation path, hello, when youre going to be asked to gaze into yourself, youll find yourself making ridiculous comments like, Oh, yes. But its hard. Right? What does that tell you? What does that tell you? Whats hard is that the ego doesnt want you to do, which is go on and look at this stuff, let it come up, face the shame, face the regret, face the embarrassment, face the humiliation, and just burn through it, so that these patterns stop; because whats really hard is living at the effect of these neurotic patterns. Arielle: Do you recommend that people work on their own spiritual practice by themselves, or what about initiating with their partner, regular prayer, meditation, contemplated practices together? Marianne: Well, that goes back to what does the man want? I think that that the last thing you want to do is to try to get, if youre a woman particularly, in a heterosexual relationship, him to do anything, including that. Its attraction, not promotion. Some men want to do that, some men their brains are wired differently than ours. And if you are with a man who wants to do that with you, thats a beautiful thing, and if he doesnt, that is not an inherent deficiency in the relationship. Whats only a deficiency in you if you think he should. Arielle: So Marianne, what would you say is the difference between attracting love and recognizing loved? Marianne: I think attracting love is passive, and I think recognizing love is spiritually active. Attracting love is knowing when we are in our natural state, we are natural magnets for

love. When we are in our natural state, its like when you see a baby, you cant not love the baby. And its not just because the infant is cute. Theres something more going on that makes us just want to throw our arms around a baby. Right? That is who we all are in our natural state. We are created lovable. Recognizing love, though, has to do sometimes with that inner work, which sometimes friends and counselors and therapists and all that can help us do, of realizing that the ego mind is defended against it, and the ego mind would like to come up with all kinds of excuses to convince us, Well, this isnt love, because hes too this or hes too that, including He doesnt do my spiritual path. And so, love is right in front of us, but we are casting with our ego minds such a web of Hes not this, hes not that, hes not my picture, as to not recognize whats standing in front of us. Arielle: So I want to just sort of segue here, because I remember reading in Enchanted Love that you said, True romance answers our need for adventure and our spiritual and emotional cravings. Marianne: Right. Arielle: Can you talk a little bit about that? Marianne: Well, the first one is the spiritual adventure. I know a man who had had a very high-powered job with one of the big environmental organizations. And then, he retired. And the first time I saw him after his retirement, I said, Is it difficult for you, having been so out there, so active, so busy, is it difficult for you, in retirement now, being home most of the time, etc. He responded saying this: Oh, no. Now, I get to spend the entire day trying to understand. I thought that was such an amazing response, and I think that comes with maturity, that we realize that sometimes, the biggest journey is the journey to understanding. And sometimes, the amazing journey is geographically, traveling the globe. And sometimes the amazing journey is the internal geography, going from that place where he drove you crazy, you drove him crazy, to the two people being willing to stay in a conversation, two people being able to share honestly what drove me crazy when you did that without it being an attack on you, taking responsibly for my communications, being kind but being honest, being transparent but being compassionate, to that place where one or both people can burn through whatever they need to burn through, to see what they need to see, own what they need to own, reach across the divide, coming back together then at an even higher level. Thats a journey, but its an internal journey. And at the deepest level, that answers our craving. We all know everybody on this call, we know we can go to Dar es Salaam and have a wonderful time, but still be anxious inside because of whats not being addressed internally. Right? And

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Seminar 6

Art of Love Relationship Series

that experience of We got it, we got through that, he actually loves me, I actually love him more, were actually more deeply connected because we went through that and stayed with that and burned through that. Thats the mountaintop, and thats what we earned for. Because thats the level of connectedness which is not enmeshment and is not codependent, but is the real deal. We went through that ring of fire. We went through the fire, and we got to the other side. Thats what we all crave. We want to get to that place, where we are seen. And thats what it means to deeply be seen. Sometimes, we say I want to be seen. Watch what you wish for. Because if you say, I really want to be seen, okay my shits out there. Right? Claire: We end up getting exposed. Marianne: Right. And then, we say, I didnt want you to see that. Right? Hello? Right. I only wanted you to see what I want you to see. But life has a way of making sure everything is revealed, thats built into the Universe. Claire: And being inside that mindset and perspective of understanding this is the purpose and this is the function, would you say this is what creates our relationships to become a sacred romance? Marianne: Absolutely, because its like A Course of Miracles says, At their highest peak, religion and psychotherapy are the same thing. I think theres a level on which you could add romance to that. That at the highest level, its where minds join in perfect oneness, and the bliss thereof. Arielle: Marianne, how would you share with us to receive a lover? Marianne: I think, for myself, what has become the issue is theres been a lot of talk in the last few decades about how men are and of course, for the gay relationships this applies as well, and I think the dynamics are the same. But whether its because someone is the opposite sex from you or even if theyre not the opposite sex, theyre just another person from you. Other people its like that book Love Languages. We tend to think in an immature place. If I receive the other person the way I would wish to be received, then Im on it. I think the highest act of love is discerning what would receiving you feel like to you? How would you like to be received? Like for me, I might say, I want to just I just want to wrap my arms around you, and cuddle you all night. To the other person, that might not feel like received. That might feel like theyre smothered or mothered, because thats not their love language, or thats not the way their brain is wired. So I think

its whats going on in the culture now thats a good thing. Is that we are seeking not only to understand ourselves, we are seeking to understand people who are different than us. So that were not just reading about how women work if were women; were reading about how men work. Were not, if were men, just seeking to understand how men operate; were seeking to understand how women operate; that thats part of the work. What would make her feel received by me? What would make him feel received by me? And so, for me, thats been the work, of trying to understand where he is. Not just what would make me feel received; what is it that would make him feel received? And giving people the gift in a way that they experience as a gift, because something I experience as a gift might not be what you experience as a gift; particularly, if youre either another love language or another sex. Claire: I think thats just such an important point, because so often, we give love in a way that makes us feel good. Marianne: Right. Exactly. Thats that whole love languages conversation. I think thats really important. And it might not be the way the other person experiences love, and then, we end up feeling rejected. Claire: Right. Marianne: When really, we werent rejected. We just didnt give the gift in a way it could be received. Its like we didnt have the right zip code. Right? Claire: Right. Marianne: So it wasnt delivered to their post office box. Arielle: Right. Right. Nobody was really wrong; they just missed the mailbox. Marianne: And thats why the work is looking outside yourself and thinking about them. Claire: Well, and thats a real practice where were actually going to grow. Right? Marianne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Claire: Its actually where the real growth is. Marianne: Absolutely. And that has to do with that whole spiritual principle of 100% taking responsibility for your own experience. What if its not that he rejected you? What if this wasnt about that he didnt see you, he didnt receive you, he didnt listen to you. What was it about your communication? What was it about that dance that you were doing? What you know what Im saying?

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Art of Love Relationship Series

Seminar 6

Claire: Yes. Arielle: So Marianne, for those that are listening that are in the midst of a big breakdown with their partner right now, theres just all kinds of anger and resentment. Theyre not communicating. What advice would you share with them? Whats a spiritual step they can take? Marianne: Well, if we go back to the learning of apartness and learning of togetherness, we are all blessed by a partner who stays for the conversation. Theres no doubt about that. But there comes a time, even in conversation with someone whos available to us, where you know youve gone as far as you can go with this verbal dialogue, where you feel youve come to your wall, and where you feel, as I was saying earlier, you actually better shut up now, because youre on thin ice and it could start getting ugly if youre not careful. And sometimes, thats when you move into silence. If youre lucky, if youre fortunate, its not luck of course, but if youre fortunate, your partner will actually say a prayer with you in that moment. But as we said earlier, it doesnt matter even if they wont, youre staying with the time; go into prayer at that time and you place it in Gods hands. Then, particularly for women, close the computer, put the telephone somewhere else, bite your tongue and wait; wait patiently for the Spirit of God, and go into the learning of apartness. Because by definition usually, two people have now to look at something or some things that was not going to be illumined by any further dialogue at this moment. And these can be painful moments, but thats the whole point; thats what this journey is about. These issues in him, these issues in you, they came up for a reason, but you have to then move into that space of aloneness, etc., sometimes to allow God to talk to you and show you what you can see when you are just in dialogue with the other person. It was a cracking open and consciousness that happened after the dialogue, after the prayer, when you went into the inner chamber and communed with God. Arielle: Thats really beautiful. Claire: Do you have any advice for how our listeners can be inviting the Spirit of God into the relationship in an ongoing way? Marianne: Well, in A Course in Miracles, it says that Prayer is the medium of miracles, and the altar is not external; the altar is in our mind. And what we put on the altar is then altered. So when you put a relationship on the altar, when you say I give this relationship to God, any situation or relationship that you place in the hands of God, thats the same thing as saying, I surrender my perceptions about this person, and I surrender my perceptions about myself, and Im willing to have the Spirit of God enter into me at the deepest level and breakthrough

even these entrenched thought patterns, emotional habits that Ive been carrying around since childhood, that make me keep running the same game over and over again. I am willing. Thats in A Course of Miracles. I am willing to see this differently. So my answer is prayer; to take our relationships I always say, if you meet somebody and you like them, pray fast. Dear God, you know and I know I can be more neurotic in this area than in any other. Please help. And as we continue to surrender the relationship to God, to surrender the relationship, to say, May this relationship be lifted to the highest level of divine right order; may it be lifted from the path, may it be lifted from the confines, the limitations, the walls, the separation of the past, the concept of being reborn. A Course of Miracles says, You are reborn in any moment when you do not take the past with you. Thats what we really need and want in relationships, even in long-term relationships. May it begin again today. May he feel in my presence that hes not bound by who he was yesterday. Im not looking at him with this kind of like, Well, I know how you acted yesterday. May the other person feel new and able to start over again in my presence today. And may I be someone new. Thats really what couples want to give each other, that you get to be today who you were not yesterday. I am so turned on by the fact that you grow and change. I am not sitting here monitoring, because I know what you did Thursday. Right? And thats what the prayer is. So my answer is prayer; that we constantly give it up, and the realization that this world is dominated by fearful thoughts, dominated by ego thoughts. We have an ego that would always have us reaching for the thought, the attitude, the behavior, which while were doing it feels like love or feels like taking care of ourselves, but which we would then see in retrospect, with self-sabotaging on the most fundamental level. And you pray, May my thoughts be uplifted today. Post angels around my head. Angels are the thoughts of God. So to say, Post angels around my head today, dear God, what that means is My ego will come up with Hes not enough, he did this wrong, he shouldve given me that, Im in a bad mood, he needs to hear about it. Post angels around my head means Dear God, remind me hes beautiful. How grateful I am that he is here, that I havent done my work today making his life happier, that my neurotic stuff from the past will only poison the future if I allow it into the present. This is this spiritual work. And so, my answer is pretty much pray without ceasing. Claire: Well, Marianne, this just has been so illuminating and inspiring and clarifying and empowering. Marianne: Well, you are my favorite girls. So its always fun to talk to you guys. Lets do dinner too.

Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.

Seminar 6

Art of Love Relationship Series

Claire: Its a this is just so exciting, the possibility that opens up. It really does feel like this deep connection and passion that were yearning for is really in the center of going through the fire of our own spiritual transformation is where were going to find it. Marianne: Right. Right. Arielle: So thank you so much. Marianne: Thank you so much. I appreciate being part of it. Im grateful. And honestly, guys, lets all get together sometime soon. Claire: Before you go, can you share about what it is that youre creating that youre most excited about, and where people can go to find out more about what youre up to these days? Marianne: Well, I am creating something that Im excited about, but not necessarily that Im ready to talk about publicly yet. So I would ask that if people are interested in my work, to go to my website, Marianne.com, or MarianneWilliamson.com, and to check out, particularly, if they sign up on my e-list, then, even though I dont write often, I will announce whatever Ive got going on, I will be doing I have a workshop, the erotic what do I call it, the Inner Temple of the Sacred and the Erotic called the Enchanted Love Workshop, the Inner Temple of the Sacred and the Erotic, but I havent scheduled the date for that next year yet. So I have all kinds of stuff that Im planning for next year, but I dont have dates to give. I have the weight loss workshops. And my talks in LA and around the country, but once again, if somebody will just go to my website, I have a relationship teleclass I did theres a tape for. So theres nothing particularly specific there other than my LA Monday night weekly talks. But if people go to Marianne.com, sign up on e-list, read the page, theyll know. Claire: And Im also one of your biggest fans on Facebook. You give the most wonderful updates on your Facebook page.

Marianne: Thank you. I get in a lot of trouble with a lot of people. Not everybody appreciates my political sentiments, but as somebody once said to me, that once you turn 5050 is the age past which you dont care what they think. Arielle: Exactly. So Marianne, before we let you go, would you leave us with a prayer or a blessing for any of our listeners who are currently in pain over some aspect of their relationship? Marianne: Well, you know, as you said that, my eye glanced over at my book Illuminata, and why dont we why dont I read The Prayer To Attract Great Love? Would you like that? Claire: Oh, yes. Arielle: Beautiful? Marianne: Dear God, I feel an empty space within me, a place where I would so love to love. I know that if my beloved came here, I would adore and cherish, honor and serve. Please give me the opportunity to expand my heart into the life of another, in the holiest way, the most beautiful way, the most intimate way, if that serves your purpose, for I would learn the secrets of love, and use what I learn to grace the life of another. What a marvelous possibility that such a treasure would be placed in my hands. Please do this. I will try my best. Amen. Arielle: Beautiful. Claire: Amen. Arielle: Amen, thank you so much. Marianne: Love you guys. Claire and Arielle: We love you! Claire: Thank you so much.

Thank you for listening to the Art of Love Relationship Series brought to you by The Soulmate Secret & Calling in The One, todays leading online courses designed to help you manifest the love of your life. For more information about how you can download the audios in this series or order the CD set and companion workbook please visit artofloveaudios.com, again thats artofloveaudios.com To find out how to manifest your own Soulmate you can visit our program information pages at SoulmateSecretCourse.com & Callingintheonecourse.com On behalf of your hosts Arielle Ford, Claire Zammit and our event partners, we want to thank you again for participating in this series and send you much love and support on your journey to discovering the keys to deep connection, soulful passion, and lasting love in your life.

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Copyright Evolving Wisdom, LLC, 2011. All Rights Reserved.