Different Heat Exchangers encountered in an automobile: 1. Radiator, 2. Transmission Oil Cooler, 3. CAC, 4. Condenser, 5. Evaporator, 6. Heater, 7.

Engine Oil cooler, 8. Battery HEX. Heat transfer phases, right after ignition; 1. Radiation. & 2. Convection, after flame quench. Flame front temp ~ 4000F (2200C) for appx 2 milliseconds, Avg gas temp ~ 1700F Engine wall temp ~ 350F Exhaust gas temp: 600 700F (engine idling), 800 900F (light city traffic), 1600-1700F (WOT) About 60% of the heat transfer to the engine mass and ultimately the coolant takes place in the cylinder head. Excessively hot engine problem: Loss of lubricating oil film & thereby Piston seize with cylinder walls Cold engine problems: 1. Poor oil flow 2. Sludge formation in the oil. 3. Poor fuel vaporization. FLUID PUMP TYPES: Classification based on fluid being Liquid or Gas Pump for pumping liquid Gas pump: Fan Relatively low press & high flow rate, Blower moderate press & flow rate, Compressor High press & relatively low flow rate. Power delivered to fluid is generally called Water horsepower, irrespective of type of fluid & power unit employed. P = pgVh. Net positive suction head (NPSH) = Pumps inlet Stagnation pressure head - Vapor pressure head System resistance increases with, 1. Cooler coolant (for its higher viscosity) 2. Close and partially open thermostat conditions 3. Age, due to accumulation of deposits in the radiator tubes and heater core 4. Higher flow rates, as the resistance to flow becomes increasingly higher as the flow becomes turbulent. Pump Operating Point: That condition at which the flow rate and pressure rise provided by the pump is equal to the flow rate and pressure rise required by the system. Pressure profile of an engine cooling system:

Thermostat (~30%), Radiator (~27%), Hoses (~25%), Engine (~rest) Consequences of metal temperature on the water side exceeding critical flux temperature; 1. Change in engine materials physical property. 2. Thermal distortion of engine components, particularly the head 3. Loss of lubricating film on wearing surfaces. 4. Thermal decomposition, oxidation and degradation of lubricants 5. Increased fuel and oil consumption KNEE CURVE (Heat transfer co-eff (h) vs Coolant flow rate): At low coolant rates, large gains in performance can be achieved with small increase in flow rates before the curve becomes almost flat.

Evaporation: Takes place between Liquid-Vapor interface, when the vapor press is less than the saturation press of liquid, at any given temp. Boiling: Takes place between Solid-Liquid interface, when liquid comes in contact with a solid surface maintained at a temp higher than saturation temp of the liquid. Types of Boiling: 1. Pool boiling: a. Boiling in absence of fluid motion/flow. b. Any fluid motion is result of either natural convection (due to difference in densities) or buoyancy effects of bubble. 2. Flow boiling: a. Boiling in presence of bulk fluid flow. b. Fluid motion resulting from external energy input e.g fan or pump.

Heat fluxes of 60000 70000 BTU/hr occur near the exhaust parts during severe operating conditions. At 70 mph on a level road about 80% of heat transfer is by nucleate boiling. Nucleate boiling is initiated when the temperature at the metal-liquid interface exceeds the boiling point about 10 20F. The required data to size the engine cooling system is as follows: 1. Engine horse power and torque curve. 2. Engine full load heat rejection to the coolant. 3. Coolant pump and coolant system resistance curves. 4. Automatic transmission heat rejection to coolant. 5. Air side radiator heat transfer and resistance. 6. Coolant side radiator heat transfer and resistance. 7. Fan performance. 8. Vehicle fan and system resistance. 9. Ram air flow through the radiator.

ENGINE COOLING SYSTEM

Purpose: 1. Remove excess heat of combustion from engine. 2. Reach correct engine operating temp. 3. Maintain / Regulate engine operating temp. Essential components: 1. Engines water jacket 2. Thermostat 3. Coolant pump 4. Radiator 5. Cooling fan (electric or belt-driven) 6. Coolant hoses 7. Heater core 8. Coolant 9. Expansion tank. THERMOSTAT (temperature controlled coolant valve): Two major functions are to: 1. Speed engine warm up 2. Regulate operating temperature. Most modern cars use 82, 88, or 91C (180, 190, or 195F) thermostat. A thermostat begins to open within a few degrees of the temperature rating and should be fully open about 11C (20F) higher. At thermostat open: The operating point should be at the point of best efficiency. At thermostat closed: The operating point should correspond to the flow rate of no less than 80% of flow rate with the thermostat open.

FAN (gas pump): Typical power requirement to operate or drive (~ 2 to 6 hp). This requirement varies with diameter, blade pitch, and number of blades. Air-conditioned cars: 5 6 blades. Non-air conditioned cars: 4 blades RWD cars (mostly): Engine driven (through fan belt) fan, mounted on water pump shaft and driven through fan clutch. FWD cars (mostly): 1-2 Electric fans, mounted on electric motor. WATER / COOLANT PUMP: Centrifugal pump (Impeller type) & fan belt driven. Typical flow rate (at road speed): 600lpm @ 4000 5000 ERPM Expected pump life ~ 100000 miles Consequence of increased pump speed: 1. Flow rate increases. 2. Pressure head increases 3. Inlet pressure head decreases (should not fall below Vapor press) General guidelines to prevent cavitation are to limit coolant; 1. Inlet restriction pressure (above saturation or vapor press of the coolant) 2. Inlet temperature (below the boiling point of the coolant) 3. Avoid entry of outside air or combustion gases in coolant circuit. Max. coolant flow rate at higher ERPM constraints the coolant flow rate at low ERPM. In such a scenario, coolant flow demand at low ERPM is met by; 1. Increase coolant pump size. 2. Additional coolant pump, operated electrically, with a separate by-pass valve to limit flow at higher ERPM, inorder to avoid unnecessary pressure drop. 3. Variable speed pump, driven electrically. When the required flow rate is not achieved, try the following: 1. Increase the output of the pump 2. Decrease the flow requirements of the components 3. Reduce the hydraulic resistance of the components (such as reducing hose bends)

EXPANSION TANK (Recovery tank/Coolant Reservoir/De-gas chamber etc.): Plastic (translucent) tank with min & max level markings. Increase in coolant temperature in engine cooling system System press rises Coolant flows through vacuum valve (set at 15psi) on radiator cap into expansion tank. Decrease in coolant temperature System press decreases, building vacuum in engine cooling system Coolant sucked from expansion tank back in to radiator by opening of vacuum valve. COOLANT: Anti-Freeze [Ethylene glycol (C2H6O2)] + Water Typical volume ratio: 50:50 Max allowable volume ratio: 2/3 anti-freeze (67%) + 1/3 water (23%). Since this combination gives the max freezing temp of about -60F. Beyond this ratio, freezing point lowers down,

gradually losing its anti-freeze property alongwith adding extra cost of coolant. Boiling point of coolant follows an increasing trend, upto 330F. Purpose of Anti-freeze: 1. Increase boiling point temp 2. Lower freezing point temp. 3. Reduce foaming. 4. Prevent cavitation. 5. Prevent corrosion. 6. Prevent rust formation. Coolant requirements, under all engine operating conditions, Min. flow Rate: 1. To prevent local coolant boiling / vaporization in engine heated passages. 2. To purge any accumulated air / vapor in all temp sensors. Max flow rate (by limiting max coolant flow) 1. Maintain stable corrosion protective layer. 2. Avoid inlet pressure to drop below vapor press. Temp rise of coolant should not be more than 12 / 13F. Operating temp range: 185 205 F (Continuous), 230 245F (Intermittent) Property Specific Heat Capacity (kJ/kgK) Density (kg/m3) Thermal Conductivity (W/mK) Dynamic Viscosity (kg/m.s) Prandtl Number Boiling Point Freezing Point Water 4.219 957.9 0.68 2.79x10-4 1.73 100C 0C 50% Glycol 3.590 1023.0 0.42 7.0x10-4 6.04 108C -37C

The increased viscosity, combined with reduced thermal conductivity and heat capacity reduce the coolant-side heat transfer coefficient by over 50%, due to addition of 50% glycol. This problem is further heightened with increased glycol %, especially in cold climatic conditions!!

RADIATOR: Extended surface, Liquid to Air Heat exchanger where Primary surface are Tubes & Secondary surface are fins. Heat transfer co-eff (h): Since the hi on the tube side is substantially greater than the air side coefficient, ho, it is necessary to provide a large heat transfer surface on the air side. Ways of increasing heat transfer: 1. Tube side co-eff (hi) can be increased by; a. Ensuring turbulent coolant flow. b. Increasing no. of rows for making flow turbulent. Disadvantages of above action: 1. Increased tube side press drop.

2. Decreased Exit Approach Temp Diff (ATD) and hence decreased heat transfer per row. 3. Increased weight, cost. 4. Increased air side press drop => increased fan horsepower. Exit Approach Temp Diff (ATD) between coolant & air > 15 20F, to avoid over-sized radiators for any given flow conditions. Improvement of coolant-side heat transfer coefficient (hi) managed by some kind of augmentation devices added to the coolant tubes to break-up the boundary layer and induce turbulence at low Re. As the Re on the coolant-side increases, the flow in general becomes more turbulent and the improvement diminishes. At low air flow rates, hi is low. Tube modifications undertaken are; 1. Inserts placed into the tube. 2. Roll dimples into the surface of the tube (Most common) 2. Air side co-eff (ho) can be increased by; a. Increasing no. of fins (FPI), but Fin count for Passenger cars & light trucks: 21 FPI (Max, with louvers on fins), Heavy duty trucks, off-highway and military vehicles: 14FPI (Max.) & Agricultural tractors: 4 FPI (Max, with bumps on fins) Disadvantages of above action: 1. Decreased fin efficiency. 2. Increased air side press drop => increased fan horsepower. 3. Increased vulnerability to air side clogging. Degrees of freedom in Radiator selection; 1. Radiator type. 2. Radiator Depth. 3. No. of fins. Types of extended surfaces: Tube & Plate fin (heavy duty trucks & off-road vehicles) and Tube & Spacer (used in passenger cars & light duty trucks)

Fin efficiency: nf = tanh (aL)/ (aL), where a = (2h/kt) 1/2 Frontal area shape: almost Square for optimum fan footprint area. Type, based on flow between Collector & Receiver tanks position: Cross-flow & Downflow No significant difference in heat transfer between them but have certain advantages of one core over the other. Downflow permits the use of a baffled top tank that can uniformly distribute the coolant over the radiator header. It has the disadvantage of requiring a higher hood line. Crossflow radiator, which allows a low hoodline, is popular in present passenger car design. Tube velocity for coolant: Min about 2-3ft/sec (to avoid scale formations & better heat transfer rates) & Max upto 10ft/sec (to avoid eroding effects of tube surface) The early selection of an optimum HEX (i.e. the radiator for a cooling system) is vital to a successful vehicle design, because it: 1. is typically one of the most expensive components within the cooling system, 2. can have a major impact on vehicle front-end appearance, 3. is a bulky item and imposes a major constraint on front-end package, and 4. Has one of the longest manufacturing lead-times of all vehicle components. Material: Copper + Brass Radiator: Brass: Good thermal conductivity, Low melting point, easy to shape & solder/braze using lead, more resistant to vibrations. Used to make tubes & header tanks. Copper: High thermal conductivity, brittle, less resistant to vibrations. Used in industrial & rough / heavy duty application, higher weight, better structural & vibrational strength. Aluminum: Relatively lower thermal conductivities, almost lighter than Cu - Brass HEX by 30%, lower mfg costs Used in passenger cars, light duty trucks, sports cars. Collector tank: contains baffle plate to aid even distribution of coolant through core. Types of automotive core: Cellular (honeycomb) and Tubular

The cellular core is fabricated by a process of soldering together thin, preformed sheets of metal, usually brass or copper. The tubular core is constructed of small round or narrow tubes that are soldered to headers of the collectors and receivers. Flow arrangement classification: Mixed & Unmixed for hot & cold fluids. On tube side, the division of hot fluid into multiple tubes in a typical automotive HEX (tube & plate fin and tube & spacer types) is considered as unmixed & flow separation in a shell-tube arrangement is considered mixed. On air side, flow separation resulting from the fins is considered an unmixed and vice versa. RADIATOR DESIGN PROBLEMS Sizing problem: HEX dimension determination (surface area) when inlet & outlet temp and capacity rates are known. LMTD method is used to calculate Q & A from energy balance equations (mcdt & U*A*LMTD) E-NTU method is used obtain A by first calculating the E and Cmin/Cmax. The appropriate chart or equation may then be used to obtain the NTU value, which in turn may be used to determine A. Rating problem: Performance analysis problem to determine outlet temp when HEX type, size & inlet temp are known. LMTD method makes the computation tedious because of numerous iterations. Hence e-NTU preferred. Radiator Sizing problem is more difficult than Rating since it involves consideration of; 1. Construction type (Material, Downflow or Crossflow, Honeycomb or Tubular core etc) 2. Flow arrangement (Unmixed or Mixed) 3. Tube configuration & size (No. of tube rows, shape etc) 4. Necessary overall core dimensions (Square or Rectangular shape etc) 5. Unknown Mass velocity (G) Effectiveness, E = f (NTU, C*, Flow Arrangement) For any given value of NTU & C*, effectiveness order is: Counter flow > Cross flow (unmixed) > Cross-flow (mixed) > Parallel flow Cause for non-uniformity / ill - distribution on air side (wherelse coolant side temperature & velocity effects are assumed uniform): 1. Heat load and flow resistance from air-conditioning and auxiliary heat exchangers placed in front of the "radiator". 2. Non-uniform inlet conditions caused by the radiator grill

3. Inherent mismatch between the annular flow of the fan and the rectangular heat exchanger (The fan shroud will never be deep enough to allow full transition) DIFFERENT CURVES REQUIRED FOR ENGINE COOLING SYSTEM DESIGN Rate of heat transfer, Q = mcph (Thin Thout) = hAh (Tb Thin) = mcpc (Tcout Tcin) = hAc (Ts Tamb) Dimensionless parameters:Reynolds No.: Inertia Forces / Viscous Forces = (VavgDh)/v (for coolant) & (GDh)/u (for air)
Prandtl No.: Momentum Diffusity / Thermal Diffusity =>

Nusset No.: Convective heat transfer / Conductive heat transfer = (hDh/k) Stanton No.: Convective heat transfer co-eff / Heat capacity rate = (h/C) Range for Prandtl numbers for fluids: From less than 0.01 for liquid metals to more than 100,000 for heavy oils. Prandtl number range for Water is 12.2 - 1.65 and for 50% ethylene glycol 71.2 6.04, between 0 100oC. Nusset No. relation used for Laminar flow (Re <2300): Seider & Tate Turbulent flow (Re >10000): modified Seider & Tate, Dittus-Boelter, and Petukhov correlations. Transitional flow (2300<Re<10000) [commonly encountered in automobiles]: Gnielinski Assumptions made in heat transfer problems: 1. Steady state and uniform flow conditions. 2. Negligible heat loss to surroundings by radiation 3. Type of HEX, such as single pass cross-flow type with one fluid mixed (air) and other unmixed (coolant/water) 4. Negligible thermal resistance due to thin tube wall i.e. Rwall ~ 0

QUESTIONS: What is the desired temp inside the engine combustion chamber? Why? What is the use of Thermal coating on the inner walls of combustion chamber? Does it reduces the temp on outer walls of chamber? What is the outer wall temp, Since nucleate boiling takes place when metal-liquid interface exceeds liquid boiling point by about 10-20F and the typical engine coolant (50:50 water glycol solution) has saturation temp or boiling point of about 125C? When the required flow rate is not achieved, try the following: 1. find ways to reduce the hydraulic resistance of the components (such as reducing hose bends) 2. increase the output of the pump 3. decrease the flow requirements of the components Lecture-9, Slide-10?? In the heat transfer analysis problem, it is assumed or verified that the fluid flow is fully developed into laminar or turbulent flow by checking using equation such as L~10D. Accordingly, appropriate equations are used for calculating Nusset no. But in reality the flow may not fully develop, either on air or coolant side, considering that air side boundary layer is growth is hindered inorder to improve heat transfer by incorporating holes, slits, louvers etc. Similarly, on tube side, coolant flow is disrupted by addition of inserts or dimples inorder to improve HEX performance. (Both modifications result in increased press drop and hence pumping power!!) Since HEX/radiator fins are affected by road hazards, splash, stones, sand/gravel or any dirt build-up, what is the factor of safety considered to ensure optimal performance? Is Fouling factor used for this purpose? Significance of mass velocity (G)?

Tractive Effort: - It is the force applied between the tire and the road surface to move a car. - The max tractive force is governed by the weight of the vehicle & the grip co-efficient between the tire and the road surface. More the weight and more the co-efficient higher tractive forces can be applied. - Tractive effort is given by WHP = (Fo + F2 * (MPH) 2 + (GVW + TW)*G)*MPH)*0.0027 Vehicle operating characteristics 2 major types of engine operating curves: 1. Peak torque curves 2. Peak hp curve. Usually, specified vehicle performance is much below the peak horsepower. The reserve hp is needed to support short bursts of acceleration that has a momentary effect on the heat rejection. Hence, the engine cooling system components such as Radiator, Fan etc. should be sized for the intended vehicle operation inorder to minimize the component costs. Intersection of the Vehicle Tractive effort curve & WOT Wheel hp curve gives the vehicle operating point. The total heat rejected by the Transmission is equal to the peak torque transmission slip. About 65% of the total heat is rejected by the transmission oil to the coolant. ERPM = (MPH * GR * AR * 28) / TD CRPM = (MPH * GR * AR * DES * 28) / TD WRPM = (MPH * 28) / TD CRPM = (WRPM * GR * AR * DES) % Slip = [(ERPM CRPM) / ERPM] * 100 Where, CRPM = converter RPM, GR = Gear Ratio, AR = Axle Ratio, DES = Descant Ratio, WRPM = Wheel RPM, Engine HP = (T * ERPM)/5250 BTU for Slip = (HP) * (2545 BTU/hr/hp) * (Slip) = BTU/hr Transmission heat loss to the coolant = (BTU for slip * 0.65)/60 = BTU/min Selection of Transmission Oil Cooler inorder to mimize the pressure drop in the oil cooler tank should have a larger di & shorter length. It is based on two parameters 1. Mass flow rate of Transmission oil. 2. Q trans / (Inlet temperature Differential of Trans hot oil & the cooler Coolant in bottom tank) [BTU/min F]
Inlet temperature Differential of Trans hot oil & the cooler Coolant in bottom tank = (TOC inlet temp Coolant outlet temp)

Different types of Refrigeration cycles: 1. Vapor Compression cycle. 2. Vapor Absorption cycle. 3. Gas refrigeration cycle. Vapor Compression cycle: Most widely used refrigeration cycle in practice. Vapor Compression cycle Process In this cycle the vapor is compressed then condensed to a liquid following which the pressure is dropped so that the fluid can evaporate at low pressure. 1 -> 2 Compression 2 -> 3 Heat Rejection 3 -> 4 Expansion 4 -> 1 Heat Addition Major components: 1. Compressor: Compresses the vapor refrigerant and circulates it to the Condenser 2. Condenser: Condenses the pressurized vapor and phase change takes place from vapor to liquid refrigerant. Heat is taken away from the refrigerant by the incoming cooling air. Usually placed in front of the Radiator. Material: Copper or Aluminum, Construction: Multiple rows or finned tubes 3. Expansion Valve: Reduces the pressure of the liquid refrigerant, so that it can evaporate at a low pressure. The expansion valve has two main functions: 1. Throttles: The expansion valve separates the high side of the A/C system form the low side. Because there is a pressure drop across the valve, the flow of refrigerant is restricted, or throttled. 2. Modulates & controls: The expansion valve is designed to meter the proper amount of liquid refrigerant into the evaporator as required under varying heat load conditions to maintain the proper cooling action. The expansion valve modulates from wide open position, to the closed position. The valve constantly seeks a balance between these two positions to ensure the proper metering of refrigerant under all load conditions. 4. Evaporator: Removes the heat from the freshly inducted air entering the passenger compartment, thereby providing the cooling effect. Evaporator is mounted next to the Heater core assembly. Both are enclosed in a Plenum chamber. Construction: Thicker than Condenser to provide a more compact design. Process: The refrigerant enters the evaporator tube with a low fraction of vapor. As the refrigerant proceeds through the tube, the fraction of the vapor increases, intensifying the

agitation and increasing the heat transfer coefficient, when the refrigerant is nearly all vaporized, the coefficient drops off to the magnitude applicable to vapor transferring heat by forced convection. Minor Components: 1. Accumulator + Desiccant: Located between the evaporator outlet and compressor inlet. The accumulator retains the liquid and releases mostly vapor to the compressor. It includes a desiccant (moisture absorbing material) to remove any contaminants from the system. 2. Receiver + Drier: Located between the condenser and evaporator. The receiver serves as a storage container for liquid refrigerant that enters from the condenser. 3. Sight glass: Ensures enough vapor bubble are present in the circuit. 4. Filter & Drier: Restricts foreign particles and avoids moisture from the air. 5. Oil separator: Placed within Compressor. Avoids lub oil entry into circuit. 6. Magnetic clutch: Permits the engine to run without running the compressor. The clutch engages or disengages the compressor belt driven pulley and the compressor shaft. The clutch is operated by forcing a clutch disk, mounted to the compressor shaft, against the belt pulley, using electromagnetism. Disengaging the magnetic field will cause the belt pulley to free wheel on its bearings. Refrigerants 1. R11 Trichloro-monofluro-methane 2. R12 Dichloro-difluro-methane 3. R22 Monochloro-difluro-methane 4. R134a Tetrafluro-ethane 5. R717 Ammonia 6. R747 CO2

Performance evaluating parameters 1. Coefficient of Performance (COP) = (Heat absorbed by the Evaporator) / (Work of the Compressor) 2. Power of Refrigeration = (1 / COP) = Compressor power per kW of Refrigeration (kW / kW) 3. Refrigerating effect (KJ/kg), by the Evaporator = h1 h4 4. Refrigeration capacity of the Evaporator = Mass flow rate of refrigerant * Refrigerating effect 5. Compressor Work = Mass flow rate of refrigerant * (h2 h1) 6. Volume flow rate = Mass flow rate * Specific Volume Airside heat transfer coefficient A precise prediction of the airside heat transfer coefficient when air flows over finned tubes are complicated, because the value is a function of geometric factors, e.g. the fin spacing, the spacing and diameter of tubes, and the number of rows of tubes deep. For rough estimate, hf = 38 V0.5

Refrigerant side heat transfer co-efficient Heat transfer analysis of condensation inside tubes is complicated by the fact that is strongly influenced by the vapor velocity and the rate of liquid accumulation on the walls of the tubes. Air Management System Thermal comfort: A state of mind which expresses satisfaction with the thermal environment. Important vehicular parameters influencing thermal comfort. 1. A/C outlet locations: Directs conditioned air through selected components into passenger compartment of the vehicle via selected outlet provisions. Heating and cooling ducts are made of metal or plastic. Fairly high velocity is used. The noise of air movement is not as critical as it is in office or residence. 2. Total system flow rate: Total A/C flow rate and outlet temperature determine the potential cooling capacity of an A/C system. The total flow rate of the conditioned air which enters a passenger compartment is crucial during the transient cool down and less significant to the subsequent steady condition. Typical condition: 15 17 degC and 200 300 cfm Fan blower uses approximately 200W or 15 Amps of power. It delivers from 200 to 300 cfm of air. Factors influencing thermal comfort of a passenger: 1. Insulating factor clothing 2. Physiological factors Age, Activity. Health 3. Environmental factors Air temperature, Mean Radiant temperature, humidity & air velocity A typical system is divided into three sections; 1. Air intake section 2. Heater and A/C evaporator (plenum) section 3. Air distribution section. In a steady state heat balance, the heat energy produced by the metabolism equals the rate of heat transferred from the body by convection, radiation, respiration, perspiration and sweat. The major contributor to the cooling load for 1. Vehicles is heat from solar radiation 2. Public transportation is heat from people. The vehicular loads are also characterized by rapid changes and by a high intensity per unit volume in comparison to residential A/C.

The load in passenger compartment may be estimated by summing the following loads: i. Heat flux from side panels, roof and floor ii. Heat flux from the glass (side, front and rear windows) iii. Heat flux from passengers iv. Heat flux from ventilation Key points about A/C system in automobiles; 1. May reduce fuel economy by 10%. 2. Range in size and cooling capacity. Cooling capacity of 1 ton (12000 BTU/hr) is minimum. Max. can go upto 4 tons (48000 BTU/hr) for vans and station wagons. 3. Larger A/C system can consume upto 8hp (6kW) at high engine speeds, where the cooling capacity can be around 4 tons. 4. 1 hp for each ton of refrigeration is consumed in motor-driven, constant speed compressor compared to 2 hp is used for each ton of refrigeration for residential complexes etc.