Beyond Neorealism: Preserving a Cinema of Social Conscience: An Interview with Gianni Amelio Author(s): Gary Crowdus, Richard Porton

and Gianni Amelio Source: Cinaste, Vol. 21, No. 4 (1995), pp. 6-13 Published by: Cineaste Publishers, Inc Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41687410 . Accessed: 22/04/2014 21:27
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Beyond Preserving of An Social Interview Crowdus

Neorealism: a Conscience with and Gianni Porton Amelio Cinema

"D IT O O cr < c_ c Q. < c_ 0) 3 Q. 0>

by Gary

Richard

Italian andthe Red much director Gianni Amelio's work, ofthe pri- Operaio Brigades. commissioned television Italian title: Porte Amelio' s adapta, hasnotbeen J, marily byItalian OpenDoors(1990, Aperte films Although in theUnited States that American tion Sciascia' s celebrated screened looked back tothe , the novella, four features ofLeonardo fascist hadaccess toprovide evidence that heisa era with have andintolerance. indisputable for parallels contemporary political repression filmgoers andpopular courtroom who deserves more critical attention. cerebral drama reversed the American melo(A This premise significant figure of a completedramas suchas Fritz should make an effort toorganize and William Wellman's The Ox resourceful programmer Lang's Fury a rare inwhich Amelio Amelio1 s films combination innocent men aresubject tothe wrath retrospective.) display of BowIncident ofangry and His two were mobs or on acumen the other a Doors, hand, acuity. first features juries. Open political psychological vengeful features hismost reinventions while recent the- particularly Tommaso Scalia(Ennio Fantastichithriller, murderer, repulsive ofthe political inspired a looser, crimes elicit abandon narratives little atrical releases audiences. Vito tight for picaresque style. ni),whose grisly sympathy from Judge AllofAmelio' aredistinguished s films, toprevent this however, (GianMariaVolont) bybrilliant perfor- Di Francesco's struggle unsavory as Jean-Louis Gian MariaVolont, defendant's execution is hisquietrebuke mances actors such to a fascist that by Trintignant, regime andarenoteworthy a compassionate the death as the andEnrico Lo Verso ultimate Viewed penalty for engage- employs form ofintimidation. with issues thatnever into as a multilayered historical the ment socialand political becomes a metaphor degenerates allegory, film for theongoing collision between strained didacticism. individuals and seemingly principled s intractable Blow totheHeart Italian title: al Cuore Amelio' bureaucracies. Di Francesco's (1982, J, Colpire Although Judge unfailing to be makes him a slightwidely firstfilm integrity screened in the U.S. (ally idealized paragon of itwasnever commervirtue, Open Doors is rethough was an markable ciallydistributed) forbothitsadaustere mirable tosensationunusually political refusal traditionalize a potentially thriller lurid ; the genre's with al preoccupation scenario andoneofVolont's frantic is exchanged most and intellirestrained suspense fora narrative measured tempo gent performances. which allows Thetough-minded, unforan introconsideration sentimental humanism spective of of and ethical Stolen Children Ital(1992, political quandaries. Thefilm on Il Ladro di Bambiiantitle: focuses Dario (Jean-Louis Trinni,)servedas a reminder a left-wing acadethat, years tignant), despite ofsupposmic who is suspected of edlyunfettered affluence, with involvement terrorists. isstill Italy bymany plagued The narrative's problems fascinaofthesamesocial - and itsdeep-seated that tion neorealist clasinspired - stems the sicssuchas De Sica's The from ambiguity fact that the decisionof BicycleThiefand ShoeDario' s fifteen-year-old son shine. Amelio that observed , Emilio(FaustoRossi),to Stolen Children the reflects " - a on hisfather to the crisis inform ofan ailing Italy ruined environment, police can be ascribedto degradeither ed humanrelations," and political conformism resentora perverse this road movie oedipal idiosyncratic Blowto theHeart's ment. evidence poignantly gives of mood has the that accomparanoia ofsubtle despondency certain withthe affinities paniestheerosion ofsocial scandalengendered andpolitical bythe responsibility. - an Italtrial basedon a scandal ofToni Negri Loosely ianMarxist and that the conscience philosopher pricked of activist whowasarrested in theItalianpublic, the film on thebasis examines theostracism 1979, wholly of sufhiswritings, an eleven-year -old supposedly for fered by "armed " inciting struggle girl, Rosetta (Valentina coerced Scalici),tragically extraparliamentary among into prostitution Amelio a scene with Valentina Scalici for Stolen Children. prepares groups such as Potere Gianni by her 6 CINEASTE

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inMilan. Antonio Lo Verso), a well-meaning inAlbania, mother which is theneutral I chose a country (Enrico ifocca- oldItaly territory. search an appropriate tireless like Albania I believe because Albania is likeItaly usedto be. , whose sionally exasperated policeman for today home the traumatized andher brother conse- Historically, andAlbania arevery closeand,ina way, has yields unexpected for girl Italy Italy - militarily as Rosetta's savior. When a surprisingly invaded Albaniatwice in 1939and today, or more unlikely quences, emerges home treats Rosetta with uncharitable Christian children's unforgiving recently, bytelevision. ' his I haveto explain Antonio to 'kidnap thepresence ofItalian television in Albania. ; the coldness, compelled young feels charges trio's trek toSicily as the humane alternative toa Until the death ofthedictator, Enver Albania wascompleteHoxha, only emerges long heartless from therest ofthe world. couldn't even listen tothe society's lycutoff indifference. They s most recent Lamerica is hismost ambitious radio. After Amelio' Hoxhadiedin 1985, hissuccessor extended some liber(1994), film, toassess the and ties andoneofthe serious cinematic tothepeople, itpossible toseeTV broadcasts attempts political few including making that the endofthe ColdWar. Lamerica from economic devastation countries suchas Italy, which is seventy miles from followed nearby andamusing, a fictionalized is very closeto Albania in account, alternately offers horrifying ofthe Albania. Although Italy geographically, in terms brazen seized oftheir cultures thetwonations areas far as Italy was plunder byunscrupulous Europeans opportunities for apart communism's demise. The the wake the United States speedy film's simple from ofAlbanian fifty years ago. - the conmen, Fiore Cineaste:Is thearchival brutal seen bytwo premise comeuppance experienced footage ofthe1939Italianinvasion their busi- under andGino Lo Verso), theopening credits intended tosuggest a link between (Michele Placido) (Enrico corrupt after Italy's - allows tointermingle ness scheme Amelio under Mussolini andAlbania's under Hoxha? awry epochal political experience goes experience and Amelio: with a meticulously intimate consideration You couldsaythat events there's a subtle butmaybe it's ofhuman folly analogy, Thesheer experienced byimpover-also veryobvious. At one point,forexample,the two main squalor. scope ofhuman suffering is enough totest the characters, ished Albanians at thebaseofa mountain Italians, , andinflicted bycynical Spiroand Gino,aresitting s qualified Yetthe character "Enver Hoxha"written limitations on theside.Theold man, asks optimism. ofSpiro with ofAmelio' Spiro, a wizened andapparently senile manwho Ginowhat's Di Mazzarelli), written he's figured it out for there, then, (Carmelo thinking install as Fiore andGino he says, himself, "Oh,I ' their the'chairman knowwhat'swritten of - Mussolini."I there bogus corporation, leavesaudienceswith don'twantto saythat more than a glimmer the Mussolini and of anda considerable Hoxha regimes were hope - they amount of untreacly the same were sentiment. different but Spiro, an very Italian who bothweretotalitarian elderly spent decades in dictator Whether it's regimes. Enver Hoxha'sprisons the oldman who Spiro, cameoutoffascism, or forunspecified political narthe the Albanianpeople crimes, provides rative whoareemerging from glue thatfuses Italians' a communist dictatorcontemporary fuzzy memories of ship, they are both with wartime to find someprivation looking the all tootangible different. sufthing who Cineaste:So in a way fering ofAlbanians tobear have been the serves torevive forced film thebrunt the historical of untrammemory of with meled in Italy capitalism fascism through that thesame theexperience fortitude ofStaliDiMazzarelli) istaken from anAlbanian businessmen to (Carmelo prison byItalian them toendure Spiro nism enabled inAlbania. shoe inGianni serve as "President" for their Amelio's Lamerica. phony factory Stalinism. Amelio: Actually,I years of s Lamerica isAmelio' want Italians and anyhimtodepict and this canvas allows the one elsewhoseesthisfilm wide-screen to remember but film, larger first simpler something that haslost its without relin- deeper andmore In fact, ifI were a society toexplain the moorings, of important. epic pandemonium meaning themore mundane horrors I would hispassion tounderstand the of ofthefilm, quishing fordramatizing sayitisthe ability importance toneorealismi indebted ofbread, While Amelio is obviously which is a theme the I film. lega- ofa piece everyday repeated life. throughout - notto Albanian chaos that thememory his ofhistory is important to all ofus Bosch-like, near-hallucinatory portrait of merges think cy, with a more that remember a respect the contours thedateofa battle, let'ssay, butto remember whowe stylized approach for ofreality realism. to understand the constrictions whowe aretoday and where A we'regoing. were, acknowledges ofundiluted Cineaste interviewed Gianni Amelio the American whowashungry oncewillalways be ableto understand the premiereperson during at the1995NewYork FilmFestival. Wesubsequently ofsomeone who's ofLamerica feelings hungry today. him some atManhattan's Ital- Cineaste: In that Italians were shocked caught upwith for follow-up questions regard, probably very bynews on thecondition ianCultural Institute. Amelio usas a genial interviewee who reports on their impressed oftheAlbanian migrs arriving answered ourquestions with Thanks toBar- shores because had what waslike. HowdidItaly exemplary thoroughness. they forgotten poverty Ital- dealwith bara Nonas simultaneous translation andMartin this for Stiglio ofthe unexpected flood ofrefugees? - Richard ianCultural his Porton Institute assistance. Amelio:It wasa realproblem because didn't haveanylaws for Italy In fact, aboutimmigration. abouttenyears thefirst only ago,for said that is notso much a film about time Cineaste: You've Lamerica since didwebegin toseepeople inItaly whohave dark WWII, Albania as itisa film about skin. Italy. - theItaly Gianni Amelio: It'sa film about twoItalies, ofmy Cineaste: From Morocco... really father andtheItaly in which I live.Myfather's was Amelio:From oftoday all ofAfrica andthen, Morocco, Italy Senegal, following butfull ofhope. andarid. These thecollapse isvery of communism, from countries Eastern poor Today my Italy cynical throughout twoItalies could ina neutral In 1991, meet a foreign when twoAlbanian arrived 20,000 only territory, country. Europe. ships carrying In my two thenewItaly, meet the refugees whorepresent likethat hadever in Italy before. film, businessmen, each,nothing happened CINEASTE 7

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When all a period when 20,000 refugees during in a of a suddenarrive there aren't anylaws thatscoundrels like cityof 100,000 people, that creates a big those in the film Italianswere arrive. Theolder busproblem. ofcourse, and talks shocked, inessman, Fiore, even people who saw abouta similar situthese events on TV felt a ation he'd set up in sense ofshock profound Nigeria. The one and tremendous all thesebusisymthing for theAlbanians. ness people have in pathy toaskwhat is common, People began though, the government was that theyonly care aboutmaking goingto do about this money. situation. likevultures, They're What do youdo with don'tcareabout they 20,000 peoplewhohave people. arrived? Where Cineaste:Ofthetwo suddenly are they business Gino goingto live? partners, Where arethey to seems somewhat more going work? So at that-point , perhaps sympathetic there was a- I don't because he'sobviously knowhow to describe the and junior partner - a strange it sense of doesn't seemquiteas andGino LoVerso) inthe become stranded Albanian after (Enrico countryside because all these Spiro mendacious as Fiore. anguish in Gino's is down local inhabitants Lamerica. jeep stripped by Ameiio:Yes,Fiore is peoplewerebeingheld in a bigsoccerstadium moredandefinitely while decisions were made.Someofthem because gerous because he'solder, he'ddonethis andhe hasmore before, escaped being felt like inprison. were Unbelievable The experience. What's is that hecanappear to be a goodperson. they they happened. things scary next for twelve Albanians were killed tocross a When he gives a speech in thefactory, to theworkers for instance, instance, day, trying Until1985there weren't carsin Albania, so what he'ssaying andgood, seems so wise butactually he'sjusta big highway. anyprivate didn't know cross the because cars would liar.The younger character, Gino,is really they youcouldn't highway guilty onlyofbeing be coming. on television, so they were ignorant. He'sabout ortwenty-six old,so hegrew Theyhad onlyseenItaly twenty-five years shocked onarriving inthe where henever ofthese bythe reality country. upinan Italy experienced any problems. a week After about orso,most ofthese were sent backto In one scene, he seesgraffiti on a wallwhich people says, "Twenty-five Albania under an agreement that wouldprovide them with years andhemakes ofsocialism!," a stupid comment tothe oldman, Italy - socialism In fact, assistance. sent toAlba- Spiro, "Whatdid youhavehere or commueconomic Italy military contingents asking, niato distribute and other basicnecessities. What nism?" That'sbecause in Italy there aretwodifferent the food, clothing, parties, wasvery unusual wasthat no Italian soldier sentto Albania was Socialist andthe Communist so the Party question Party, justreveals inthestreets allowed towalk with kind ofweapons a hisignorance. Ginoishe andappears onewhoyells like a and,after any Although certain were from in the streets at at the the film end of he's the one who a transforracist, point, they prohibited appearing undergoes allinorder toavoid invasion. ofa military mation andchanges. hadhe gonethrough thesameexperiFiore, impression giving any Cineaste: Howextensive is the that situation the never would have , with ence, film portrays changed. two Italian con artists Cineaste: Once inAlbania toset Gino realizesthat arriving up a phony business ? Spiro is also a SiAmelio: Before1991 or heseems more cilian, and we 1992,Albania was a no sympathetic, man's land and, in a as viewers become situation likethat, there's more to sympathetic someone to him as well. always trying makea profit out of it. I Amelio: Yes, you madea film aboutItalians couldsaythat Spiro to Albania, buta lot going givesGino an idea - Germans, of others of Italy ofthepast, and so on- went an identification of Swiss, there as well. Some went to where he comes set up real businesses, as wellas an from, while others went tosetup to unopportunity To derstand the Alphonycorporations. establish a legitimate banians. He realizes thattheAlbanians business, you need laws and cooperation between oftoday arelikehis thegovernments. As an father. He loses - his Italian,I cannotgo into everything Albania and set up a his money, car,his unless there is an clothes,his passfactory - and he bebetweenthe agreement port Italian and Albanian jnorder comesan Albanian. toreturn Gino must ona boatload ofimpoverished Albanian home, join Spiro inthe for scene ofGianni Amelio's Lamerica. It'sbizarre to think Italy sailing concluding governments.But it's emigrants 8 CINEASTE

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thaton thisboat fullof Albanians are two Cineaste: Howwasthe received inItaly ? goingto Italythere film Italians. Amelio: It'sbeenwellreceived, with a certain amount of although Cineasta: Howdidyouconceptualize that onthe boat? embarrassment. films had positive characters and a final sequence Myprevious The various isvery clearmessage, someone as in montage ofthe faces ofthe passengers impressive. very showing doingtheright thing, Amelio: In that scene andthroughout thefilm I wastrying toshow OpenDoors or Stolen Children. Thisfilm wasreceived in a similar in therelations between theItalians and theAlbanians in a wayto an earlier film A Blowto theHearty of mine, which was that, we're all Albanians. Eveniftoday Ginois rich and accompanied The characters in boththese sense, symbolic bysomecontroversy. hewants, hecan't canlive the that atsome hecould films havebothdarkand lightsides,withmaybea bit more way forget point become destitute andneedhelp. Itdoesn't take much. Allyouhave emphasis on thedarker so itwasharder for viewers to identify side, to do is lose yourcar,yourclothes, and you,too,can become with thecharacters. It'svery difficult for Italians to identify with the destitute. Ginoisoverwhelmed atthe endwhen hesays, "HowcanI twobusinessmen in Lamerica. It'seasier for them to identify with live without a passport?," andtheAl-banian official "But Spiro,theoldercharacter, becausehe's moreof a symbol. But responds, none ofushave because he'smore ofa symbol than an actual passports." person youcanrelate Cineaste:Would a bitabout the with to,heremains somewhat distant from the audience. youtalk experience ofworking - including thenonprofessional actor whoportrays didyou intend its Spiro why you Cineaste: OpenDoorsisa historical Although filmy - andthe chose fiim orsimilarities between that debate about tohave relevance? differences experience capital punishment contemporary andthat with inStolen Amelio:Nobody the children actors a period film makes without that the ofworking nonprofessional thinking Children? film's I wasn't is relevant. a film about thedeath argument making Amelio: I wanted to work with a nonprofessional in Italy, actor penalty because itdoesn't exist I wanted specifically though, anymore. whochanges because he'sa character hisidentity in general thecourse to makea film abouttheideaof tolerance. I'd liketo during of the movreand I point out thatmany didn'twanthimto be films havebeenmade about thedeathpenbysomeone portrayed the audience could alty, especially in butin all of America, identify. Butwouldn't Cineaste: those films theconcept an Italianaudience be isthe following... able to recognize his Cineaste: He's innoItalian ? accent cent. Amelio: No, because Amelio: Yes.We can't he's notan actor.Begive him the death in thebeginning because sides, penalty maybe hedoesn't Other he'sinnocent. I made a speak. film forthefirst time peopletalkto himin Albanianand he unabout the death penalty in derstands andreplies in whichthe protagForan Italian onist did kill someAlbanian. - three itisa surprise in audience, body people, - whoadmits thefirst time he speaks thiscase until which isn't to having doneit,who Italian, about forty minutes has no remorse, and into film. the whosays, "Ifyouletme I also wentto the go, I'll do it again." a South ofItaly to find People findthisvery difficult to acceptbut nonprofessional someI wanted because whatI wanted to emone witha southern After his Tommaso Scalia shoots her atpointblank is theprinciple (Ennio Fantastichini) wife, raping phasize inthe ofGianni Amelio's Doors. sequence Open chilling opening when range accent. Thatway, of havingrespect for hefinally humanlife.It's nota Italian, speaks he would havethesameaccent as Gino, whowoulddiscover that question ofwhether or nota person is guilty or innocent, it'sthe thisold manis also from I metand choseCarmelo don'thavetheright to putto death I, as a human Sicily. very ideathat being, I didn't a lotofother I another audition before humanbeing.In otherwords,if I killan assassin,a quickly. nonprofessionals a very difficult task. I wasvery howev- murderer, I alsobecome met so itwasn't a murderer, ifit'slegal. even Thisisa very anxious, him, we wouldbe able to do together. I consoled difficult for most toaccept. er,aboutthework concept people in front somewhat with theknowledge that old people ofa Cineaste : Howdidyou the Leonardo Sciascia myself goabout adapting story? movie camera becomeinnocent likechildren. Children are less Amelio: It wasa very that I tookin adapting it. interesting voyage innocent than old people butthey're more usedto playing took were written games, Theevents actually place. They up innewspapers whereas oldpeople area little bitembarrassed about and Sciascia all theclippings and created thispamphlet. playing. gathered InStolen I would askthe little sometimes to do cerThe focuses on the of conscience the who is ofa jury Children boy story part judge "No."So I would tainthings andhewould do that must decide what's to happen with thedefendant. From "OK,what say, say, going and he wouldsay,"I wantchocolate" or "I wanta thevery untiltheend,thejudgeis against thedeath youwant?," beginning I hadtobribe soda."In that him. With the oldmanitwasa penalty andhe never hasanydoubts aboutit.Forthefilm I took a respect, whole different ballgame. Onedayhewashaving a lotofdifficulty different course becauseI wanted to showwhat evenan slightly a scene. I enlightened He kept todo itover andover before haveto go through to make this difficult doing having again judgewould found outthat the wasthat hehadtogotothe bath- decision. Towards theend,in fact, thejudgealmost finally problem up the gives roombutwastoo embarrassed to sayanything. The problem of battle. Atonepoint, heputs hishand "I over hismouth, as iftosay, with a nonprofessional istotry some kind of can'tdeal with actor tocreate thisanymore." Whathappens then is that a jury working between nota professional overand continues the rapport you,and onceyouhavethat youcan movefor- member, judge,takes ward. Butyoucan never, evergivea script In myfilm, to a nonprofessional battle. it'sthejuror whosays, "We must continue to actor toread. andwhoendsup saving theman, after an this," later, fight although CINEASTE 9

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it madefora appealofthedecision, thought he is eventually exemuchstronger argucuted. ment tofocus onsomeWhat I wantedto one whoreally worked is that hard toget where heis. sayin thefilm it'snotjustaboutlaw, The judge'sfamily in it's also about conthestory is notin the It'snot science. film. I wanted to show justlaw that hastoexist, butthe thejudgeas probably conscience oflawwrittheonlyperson in his tenintoevery whowasableto citizen, family so that lawissomething whohad go to school, ifweas indithat exists comefrom a lowplace viduals feel that it's in society to become a The idea of necessary. judge, and therefore thedeath whata riskthiseffort being against entailed for him. penalty must come from each oneofus. Cineaste: The on juror, Cineasta: Youradapthe other seems to handy tationinvolved some as a contrast to function other thecourtroom audience changes interesting theSciascia and themobs story. from ofpeople In Sciascia 's version showndemonstrating , the ofan injuroris more for the times "These aredifficult we're Giovanni Consolo Car- death. defendant's in/comments (Renato living juror tellectual andinthe film pentieri, DiFrancesco ina scene tojudge Vito Maria from Doors. left) (Gian Volont) Open he's a farmer. Amelio: A personis Amelio: All of the able to distinguish in thefilm In thefilm the themselves fromthe crowdonly if theyhave some kindof characters aredifferent from Sciascia. from a very lowsocialclass, education, somekind ofculture. So theonly father is a baker, so he comes difference between the judge's inthefilm juror in thestreets inthe he'smiddle class. Thejuror and all thepeopleyelling is that whereas Sciascia has thejuror story intheSciascia ofrefined readbooks. in this whereas he'sa landowner Another difference character isa farmer, between bookand story - he knows In thefilm in theSciascia he'straveled. he'sa farmer film thejuror is guided culture is that French, story bythechurch in possessionof this commandment "Thoushalt who almostby a miraclefindshimself that notkill," andthis is never saidin which is howhe my film. thebooks, Instead ofreferring to theCatholic incredible He starts thefilm refers Church, library. reading totheDostoyevsky comes toread bookwhich describes the horror ofexecution, of Dostoyevsky. in my film is theprominenceactually I didn't Another that's different headcutoff. want thefilm to very seeing somebody's thing I reveal ingreat the whose detail. suggest that only religious people who believe in the ofth assassin, accused, personality andofhumanity about cer- commandments won't elsemight. I didn't He doeshavehisownsense ofpassion buteveryone want it kill, to have todo with I wanted itto have tain issues. todo with anything religion, Cineaste: He'sa committed humanity. fascist. andevilside.I wanted to show Cineaste: What wasitlike with MariaVolont?1 I alsoemphasize hiscrude towork Gian Amelio: I wanted because to emphasize ofthefilm. It wasvery someone whowasa monster different just Amelio:He waslikea coauthor with himthan or notto condemn working with other actors. howdifficult thiswholeidea aboutwhether most He really challenges was. someone todeath in theway himself that didyou in his Cineaste:Why he getsinvolved the in the role and the overall make changes class There area production. ofthe judge origins andthe fewotheractorswho juror? Amelio:I think these do this, likeRobert De are somewhat unconNiro, who become in scious decisions,beinvolved thoroughly I don't theirwork,whereas cause necessarily do it on purpose, but actors many justleave what is thatI thisworkto thedirhappens end up making the ector.Volonthad to characters as close to achieve a totalidentiwhat I know, oras close fication with the to myself, as possible. for character, example, I'm from a background bothhisgoodandbad evenlower thanworksides,and thatcaused hima lot of pain. He ing class because my father wasunemployed took on thepersonality in andhadtoleave ofthecharacter so inItaly order tofind work. tensely that it was almost as if he were Themore conscious choices involved makputting himself in prison. ingthejudgesomeone who riskseverything theproducDuring that to Judge he has in order DiFrancesco's a man that hasmysteriously left a book as a gift tion of the film,for explains daughter - andthis inthis scene from Doors. her father makethisdecision.I for was Open example 10 CINEASTE

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- helived characteristic ofVolont in a hotel buthe never left character's emotions as he'sunexpectedly humiliated andthen very shifting even thewindow ofhisroom. he'sin trouble. Lo Verso is a terrific actor andyouusethe it,andhenever opened During pro- realizes " a hedidn't hedidn't meet with other in that scene described duction, , as you've it, like gooutatnight, people, camera previously pitiless " and he didn't evenwant to socialize with who an machine which the actor's mind. anyone played X-rays ofhisin thefilm. He remained likethatthroughout the Amelio:I agreecompletely with of my enemy you.I feelat theheight ofthefilm inessence, so that, hewouldn't outofchar- directorial when I amfilming face andcan shooting get powers justoneperson's acter atany time. see thebattle that at their face. they're justbylooking undergoing ' ' onhis : Didhedevelop Cineaste character? That'swhenI feellikeCecilB. de Mille, whodirected backstory bigbattle I always I work Amelio: do this when with butinthis casewe scenes anda castofthousands, butI needto seeonly oneface and actors, I spend worked on ittogether. a lotoftime with or the emotional battle that itisgoing actors, retracing through. the oftheir that Cineaste:Over the Italians have made the characters, creating biography including everything years, many journey from tothem before the film's the South to the butin this wehavea journey the North, happened from story actually begins. film clear Cineaste:It'snotquite whether or notJudge Di Francesco is North tothe South. Wasthat a conscious strategy? an interesting There's encounter ina cafe between him and Amelio: theimmigration from theSouth to theNorth, antifascist. Nowadays " the which the latter tothe"difficult times la Rocco andHisBrothers doesn't take these , juror during refers they're place anymore. Today " himbyasking and Volont do you sonsofRoccohaveto return to theSouth because oftheeconomic , What living challenges through ' mean times'?" situation butwhen return don'trecognize it.Sometimes bydifficult they they Amelio: He'safraid the be a spy. Thestory is setina very they think should andtry tolive butthey there, juror may maybe they goback historical offascism so when thejuror refers to the immediately realize that their life isn't there A major specific period really anymore. - although difficult times anexpression that could have a conclusion of Stolen Children a conclusion the in,that's they're living perhaps - is thatthere ofmeanings, this couldbe someone who'strying characters themselves don'trealize isn'ta variety including really toentrap differenceanymore you. Cineaste: the between theSouth and Although a bit theNorth, that film depicts quite of everyviolenceby the murone is thesametoday, derer and thatuglythings , Tommasso, your cinematic portrayal of happen everywhere. is quite thatviolence I'mvery curious, bythe Therape restrained. to see theAmeri, for way, canremake ofthe film. , is filmedin example shot. Cineaste: A remake? long I find Amelio: scenes of Wedidn't know onewas violence difficult very planned. to do, I getveryemAmelio: Universal is barrassed when filming going to do it. The I suchscenes, isready. although script Cineaste:Who's knovythat violence going exists' andevery oncein todirect it? a while it has to be Amelio: I know whoit shown.I wantedthe is,butI can't say. film toinclude this Cineaste: Well,God type of violence, which , sir! By the helpyou doesn't exist in the way,howmuchcritiI Sciascia because cismare we to understory, the killer wanted standfromthescene really to peoto be repulsive where thechildren are I felt it was andher brother Luciano aretaken (Valentina Scalici) leracitano) (Giuseppe by ple. possible Rosetta rejected bytheCatholic toa religious home atCivitavecchia inthe scene ofStolen Children. opening to show this and to train institution. It seems a horror of the un-Chrisconvey remarkably thescene ina long andnotnecessary for theviewer tian attitude. shot, however, toberight ontopofit. Amelio: In myfilmsI don't makeunderlying criticisms of - that's - it'sjustthatpeoplemake Some Cineaste: violence occurs institutions too Manichaean ofthe off-screen. - hegoeshome, I think Amelio: hisactions afterwards andthen other have tolive with these but mistakes, showing goes mistakes people - is even tothebathroom, then liesdown on hisbed more horrible I'm notmaking criticisms. Above Children all,inStolen , generalized than the details ofthe the characters areextremely Thetitle inItalian, showing killings. complex. bythe way, that Cineaste:Weunderstand Stolen Children wasinspired translates as "TheThief of Children," butthethief is a byan actually actual news event what wasthe between that incidentpoliceman, so there area lotofcontradictions inthe characters. , but relationship andyour Cineaste: Somecritics, in writing aboutthe drew screenplay adaptation? film, parallels Amelio: Anevent like that andprobably between it and neorealist because works, happens every dayinItaly, particularly ofitsuseof a hundred similar events States. But children, butweseeboth similarities and differences to traditional happen every dayintheUnited what wasreally for me.The first neorealism. happened justa departure point is shotalmost as ifit'sa TV movie, an Amelio: A discussion ofneorealism cannot besimplified. First ofall, partofthefilm showing incident that butit'sonly after thetitle credits and neorealism to time inhistory, andtheclassic really happened, belongs a very specific the that extended from theend of thewarto the filming changes my story begins. periodof neorealism Cineaste: scenes onshots which onfaces. of theFifties. Whenwe talkaboutneorealism, three , beginning Many ofthe rely film's focus - De Sica,Rossellini, - but, which the emotional human such as the directors arealways cited andVisconti explore geography ofthe face, shot little marvelous scene later personally I don'tknowanydirectors whoare more , orthe boy's opening ofthe expression speaking, in the the Carabinieri hasapprehended the robber andhe's different thanthesethree. Yet all of them havemadeso-called film after interviewed Youusea slow shot into Lo neorealist so which one is therealneorealist? Is Miracle in films, bya superior. being tracking Verso's theinterview and theviewer can trace the Milanneorealist or not? hastheir ownopinion. facethroughout Everyone Beyond 11 CINEASTE

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that,is Fellinia neoabout De Sica until realist? much later. So I think that tosay Cineaste: Would you that Stolen Children is a tellus aboutyour poneorealist film doesn't litical formation? Whatis clearis apply. Amelio: That is also that I ama sonofneoverycomplex.When realism. As an Italian Comyouhear'Italian whogrew up watching munist Party,' you those I'vebeen movies, probably think of influenced and bythem differsomething very haveaffected they ent than what it acmy work. is. I don'tknow tually Cineaste: Ina sense, it's how knowledgeable almost to try to unfair you are about the connect directly Italian political left. every Italian You might contemporary describe the to thathisfilmmaker PCI as a radical potorical movement. With litical party which that inmind, would wantsto changethe you tellus a bitabout your ofpowpresent system own artistic andpolitical er in orderto create ? formation better for something Amelio: What I'm At theend of people. After the children are the Catholic Carabinieri officer Antonio Lo thewar,after home. rejected by (Enrico tosayisvery bizgoing fascism, must escort them toaninstitution for children" inSicily. "problem arre, very unusual. Verso) we haddemocracy and When I wasgrowing freeelectionsand all up as a kid, I sawonly American and ifthere's that thethings movies, which weren't before. Butfor wehad anything possible forty years influenced metobecome a filmmaker, itwasAmerican movies. This a government thatwas entrenched and practically immovable was inevitable because American cinemahas been the most becauseeveryone was so intertwined there was really no wayof influential inEurope, as itis today. TheItalian never went to creating hadtheir andwere never removed. public change. People positions see neorealist and theonlyreason even In thiscontext, movies, theItalian left wasthemostimportant force bytheway, that they know exist isbecause scholars have defined that tried tobattle this they period. regime. most - as I explained, formative theSixties, when Italian I comefrom a very difficult socialbackground During my years, during cinema wassomething - and I'm also other than ifI hadto saywhich one evenlower thana working neorealism, classbackground Italiandirector influenced me themost,I wouldhaveto say from theSouth, which makes meevenmore and underdeveloped, Antonioni. He influenced not onlyme,but everyone ofthis I've always with theleft really, because background aligned myself thefilmmakers of the French New Wave. Il Grido wing. Theleft hasbeenvery including andintellectually. important culturally influenced future filmmakers. Antonioni's films stimulated all It'shard tofind intellectuals inthelastfifty many who've anyItalian years ofustostudy toexamine itslanguage. film, come from the right. Cineaste:Theuseofempty inStolen Children is very much Cineaste:When were involved spaces with II youwere younger youmore like Antonioni. Manifesto?2 Amelio: In Stolen - sometimes Children there aresomevery farfrom them I don'teven Absolutely. explicit Amelio:I'm very today references to Antoni- but understand them I oni,liketheending. in the Seventies that went to filmin this was the newspaperI place in Sicilycalled boughtand thatwas Notobecause I learned more my position. about itfrom hisfilms. Cineaste: Speaking of When I was filming theSeventies , is it true Stolen Children I , would that A Blow to the tell everyone on the Heartwas inspired by crew, "Monica Vitti the Toni case? Negri walked here" and"AnAmelio: The subject tonioni putthecamera was in theair,it was here." inspired bytheclimate Nowthat I'm older, of Italyat thattime. I have also come to There wasn't only other films appreciate there was a terrorism, from thepast, so ifyou neurotic obsession with ask me today which a demonterrorism, other Italian filmmaker ization of terrorism, hasinfluenced mea lot, whichwas a very big I wouldsayDe Sica. I I believe, even mistake, neversaw any of his Sinceterpolitically. movies when were they rorism was beingdeactuallycoming out no one unmonized, because I wasn't old derstoodthe reasons to seethem, so enough behind it, and there I didn't reallyknow Antonio andLuciano take a break their inStolen south Children. during trip were conactually very 12 CINEASTE

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hadonly looked at supporting Italian itwastaking crete reasons film production? place.Ifpeople why A Blowtothe it'simportant that thestate havebeenunderstood. Heart Amelio: itwould those Yes,I think reasons, helpin a country with terrorismlikeItaly, make their first films. butabouttheobsession talks notaboutterrorism especially byhelping young people doesn'tneedcharity, aboveall it needsa hisownfather, whoprobably Butthefilm Inthe the sondenounces itself. movie, industry thatwould enable people to know,to love, and to a terrorist. isn't even strategy knows howto produce with screenwriters on each understand movies. films butthey still collaborated Cineaste: Youhave Italy different the work on the haven't out how to to see them. The describe the nature Would encourage public you ofyour figured films. ofyour intheaters. real is distribution andexhibition There should problem screenplays? and I be more for national cinema. ofmyfilms, I choose thestory, thesubject Amelio: matter, support showing - notby Thereare many this I choose it'sa question of When write a lot. collaborators, waysthestatecould regulate personally I And when or the of films into that that I've chosen. with them the impeding prohibiting import foreign Italy, subject discussing - but, in this new would be stupid andridiculous to give it'snotas ifI'veputall myfaith screenwriters, justoneexample, by change I canexchange ideas with. putting a taxon thedubbing offoreign orbylowering the tax a new I'mjust for films, person person. looking inItaly intheItalian conflicted for someone who's a film or but a very I havea good rapport withscreenwriters making language, thescreenwith by loweringthe tax on a relationship movie theater that shows Italthe itslf for me, because, play ian movies ofalways instead of is justa series screenplay the notes howto make about showing foreign movies. We'vebeenwaiting movie. In that sense, the twentyfive for new lawsfor the for more useful ismuch years script film because theItaltheproducer who needsto industry iangovernment more ismuch makeall the plans. It also in interested the future of for a reference provides point television thanthefuture of in who'sinvolved everyone the cinema. After it's film so can the all, they making forthem mucheasier to use work. their calmly goabout television than thecinema for I usually thescripts write andpropaganda. ina very short power period quickly, the Cineaste: Do youthink be oftime. ThenI letmyself cinema canplay a role insocial free interms ofchanging very andpolitical the change? mymind,of changing The cinema a Amelio: the while I'm plays making script rolein every oflife buta movie. In fact, I usually part shouldn't be that almost political message everything change the reasonto makea good I Forexample, I've written. film. The problem forall of the rewrote almost completely is notthe Children ofStolen us, as filmmakers, screenplay If it'sthelanguage. the assistant argument, during with'my on your cinAndall thedialog youdon'twork shooting. ematic language,you can theshootwaswritten during make a politically correct moing. is at thesametime a viethat wasdifferTheexperience movie. bad We had a Dario entforLamerica. inGianni as a suspected terrorist isarrested (Jean-Louis Trintignant) Cineaste: So the but Amelio's Heart. Blow tothe 1982 feature film. film gramscreenplay very specific marmust be there who oneofthescreenwriters, , no matter is. the what the wouldrewrite to thedaily closeattention message shooting, paidvery - that a bad message or next to me Amelio: with meevery Yes,butI think is,a Manichaean right day.I liketo havesomeone script - will bedelivered theentire thesubject I candiscuss with whom always badly. message shooting propaganda throughout with toavoid ordidactic Cineaste:Howdoyoutry ofthe film. being ponderous the don't on alsodoa lot You Cineaste: set, you? your 'messages?1 ofimprovisation I try tonotcheat orothers. butyoucanonly do Amelio: tobehonest, is improvised a lotthat Amelio: Yes,I shoot myself first. I would be ifthescript has beenthoroughly that prepared So I with unable to go to thesetcompletely nothing. unprepared, I arrive but Footnotes: mewhen with wellandI havesomething prepare very I change the 1Gian forinstance, I often it.A lot oftimes, then died of a heart attack on December while change Maria Volont 6,1994, (1933-1994) to portraying I like much next. That's oneshot andthe between in inTheodoros Gaze onlocation the lead role very Ulysses' why Angelopoulos's dialog Art in in1957 from the National ofDramatic After Greece. whoareabletoimprovise. with actors work Academy graduating and also asthe villain Volont worked for several onthe appeared years stage What isyour Rome, inyour is used Music Cineaste: films. quite sparingly inseveral For a Fistful Dollars of the Leone Westerns,' including of Sergio 'Spaghetti inthe cinema? tomusic approach known for his work with some and For a Few Dollars More Heisbest (1964) (1965). Franco thesamecomposer, with Amelio:I've beencollaborating Taviani Paolo and Vittorio of directors, (AMan for political including Italy's leading tenyears. We share thesameideasabout Burning, for more than Elio Petri Still Kill the Old and the Under , 1969), 1962, (We Piersanti, Scorpio Sign of a Citizen Above The Class Goes , 1970, 1967, for Way, wesearch time wemake a film Suspicion Working infilms andevery Investigation of music together The and Todo Francesco Rosi 1970, Modo, Contro, Heaven, 1972, 1976), ( Uomini I to on theimages, to 'comment' I don'twant themusic solutions. a Death Foreand Chronicle Mattei 1979, 1972, Luciano, 1973, Eboli, Lucky of Affair, tobe told, atthesame tobe created the music andtheimages want time, Montaldo and Gillo Pontecorvo Giuliano Vanzetti, (Sacco 1971), (Oper1987), in films that it's ation is so important I think that music born Moro othand Ferrara together. (The 1987), 1979), many Giuseppe Affair, among Ogro, film I didn't ers. Volont several over the was tohave interviewed times when notto useit.In myfirst Cineaste toknow alsoimportant years: privileged No.1/1975) Cinema and Politics" "Gian Maria Volont Talks about VII, (Vol. film to methe see musical because butI think it'sa very useany music No. and and the Collective XV, (Vol. 1/1986). Experience" Filmmaking "Acting ina film aremusic. sound andnoises needs are the Cineaste:What from the Italian Communist the faction was a breakaway industry2IIManifesto film oftheItalian greatest Party during Stalinist anantiwhich a rolein Seventies should the Do believe position. espoused today? you government play greater CINEASTE 13

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