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LETS TALK BITCOIN

Episode 108 The People and Projects




Participants:

Adam B. Levine (AL) Host
Stephanie Murphy (SM) Co-host
Farsha (Farsha) Co-founder of FilmAnnex and WomensAnnex
Roya Mahboob (RM) Co-founder of FilmAnnex and WomensAnnex
Dmitry Murashchik aka Rassah (DM) Community manager for Mycelium wallet
Neill Miller (NM) - Co-founder of Altcoin Labs
Jonathan Zevallos (JZ) Co-founder of Altcoin Labs
Michael Perklin (MP) Director for Bitcoin Alliance of Canada and promoter of
Cryptocurrency Certification Consortium
Mark Edge (ME) Radio host of FreeTalk Live



AL: Today is May 10th 2014 and this is Episode 108. This program is intended for
informational and educational purposes only. Cryptocurrency is a new field of study.
Consult your local futurist, lawyer and investment advisor before making any decisions
whatsoever for yourself. [0:19]


___________________________________________



Welcome to Lets Talk Bitcoin, a twice weekly show about the ideas, people and projects
building the digital economy and the future of money. My name is Adam B. Levine and
todays show is about the people.

In 2014, the mobile space is heating up. I sat down with Rassah, community
manager at the Mycelium wallet team to talk their new Local Trader feature and
what comes next
Then, Stephanie Murphy caught up with Neill and Jonathan of Altcoin Labs. They
talk education and consultation, meetups and Huntercoin
Later, on a rooftop in Toronto, I spoke with Michael Perklin about the
Cryptocurrency Certification Consortium. What it is and how it works
Finally, we close todays show with Mark Edge of FreeTalk Live. One of the earliest
media personalities involved with Bitcoin, he and Stephanie explore the early days
and how far weve come
But first, Farsha and Roya are founders of www.FilmAnnex.com, a blogging platform
that pays participants in Bitcoin. Stephanie joins them now [1:23]


Stephanie Murphy interview with Farsha and Roya

SM: Im here talking with Farsha and Roya and they are Bitcoin bloggers. Ladies, welcome
to the show. [1:31]

Farsha: Thank you very much for having us. [1:33]

RM: Thank you very much for having us. [1:35]

SM: We are at the Inside Bitcoins conference in New York and I met Michael, over there,
from FilmAnnex and he said that hes got a blogging platform where people can get paid to
blog. You are both from Afghanistan, is that right? [1:52]

Farsha & RM: Yes. [1:53]

SM: You are blogging for this site and you get paid in bitcoins so you can receive that
Bitcoin payment anywhere in the world, right? [2:01]

Farsha & RM: Sure, yeah. [2:02]

Farsha: FilmAnnex and WomensAnnex Foundation is an online film platform where people
can come online, they can register on the platform, and both FilmAnnex and WomensAnnex
and they can upload their films, videos and blogs. The difference of our platform with
others is we pay for the users if they come online and they share their stories. The other big
difference is that we pay them in Bitcoin. (??) for WomensAnnex that supports women in
developing countries, starting from Afghanistan and around the world. Its a very big and
huge step for women because in certain countries there are a lot of difficulties for women
to access banking systems. Every transaction is always a headache for women, so Bitcoin is
just the only currency that women can easily have a digital wallet and they can send and
receive without any fee and also its not only about the currency but its also about the
technology side which helps them to get more involved into technology we can tell digital
literacy. A digital currency for digital literacy. [3:07]

SM: OK, so how long have you been blogging on FilmAnnex and whats your experience
been like? [3:13]

Farsha: Actually, Roya and I are the co-founders and board members of WomensAnnex
Foundation and we also write blogs about our activities but the main mission of ours is to
find women who can blog for us. Right now, we have around 60,000 female users on
WomensAnnex platform with 6,000 of them are from Afghanistan, which is a huge step for
us. They are writing blogs about everything; the daily issues about education, which is
everything that is interesting for them. We just measure their social media connections
with other people, and then we rate the blogs, and we pay them based on their activities.
[3:53]

SM: Roya, if you tried to send money from the US to Afghanistan, how would you even do
that? Thats going to be a problem, right? [4:00]

RM: Yes, this was a problem before but right now, Bitcoin makes my work easier. [4:05]

SM: Yeah. [4:06]

RM: We can send to our users any place in Afghanistan. There is no need that they have to
come to the bank or they have to come to a specific location. They can receive their monies
in their wallets. As Farsha says that we have 6,000 students, female students in
Afghanistan, due to some problems like they dont have a bank account, or the family is not
allowed them or their age is not.... I mean, they are not of a certain age to get a bank
account. There are also other security problems. Right now, we are using the bitcoins and
then the students just started in February to receive the bitcoins and they are happy when
they have a wallet, then they can buy online stuff. We are also talking with some of the
local shops that they can exchange their bitcoins and buy stuff in Afghanistan, online. [4:56]

SM: Wow! There is starting to be a whole Bitcoin economy. [4:59]

Farsha: Yes. [5:00]

RM: Yeah I hope so. [5:01]

SM: If youre in Afghanistan, is it a benefit to be able to have control over your own money?
Is there the potential, if youre carrying cash around, to get robbed? Or if youre picking it
up from somewhere, is that an issue? [5:16]

RM: Yes, it is an issue because, not only for the women but also for the men as well, the
problem that if you have cash and you take it with yourself around, that would be a
problem, especially for the women. If they have money and if they wanted to save it, they
have to go to the bank. If they dont have a bank account, the family will take their money,
so they cannot always save their money. They have to pay. Even if they wanted to save for
themselves, they cant, so I think that Bitcoin is a solution for them, and then they can save
it and no one knows how much bitcoins they have. Whenever they want, they can change it
to cash. [5:54]

SM: Yeah, exactly. That could be a pretty revolutionary thing if women were able to keep
control of their own money without their family taking it or exposure to risks when theyre
carrying around cash, or whatever, right? [6:06]

Farsha: Yeah, definitely. Thats why we are trying to push the concept of digital literacy by
means of digital currency which is a very huge step for women. It will also lead them to
financial independence which is like... womens empowerment. We really want the women
to be a very strong part of the society that always they are going to be ignored. Its not
always in developing countries; its also in developed countries as well. This is a common
problem but, I mean, in Afghanistan and certain countries, its a little bit more of a big issue.
Really, we want to involve women more and lead them to use the power of social and digital
media with technology, combined with education in the right way. [6:45]

SM: How would you find bloggers? Is it a social media thing? Does it get shared and then
people find out about the blog, or find out through their friends? [6:57]

RM: Through our WomensAnnex Foundation we created eleven IT centers for eleven
schools and right now, we have 45,000 female students in our network. We are providing
directly beneficiary and training for the 6,200 of the females that they learn how to work
with computers and what is the technology, whats the benefit of writing the blogs, and how
they can get paid for that. Through this network, the students will register and then they
get started to working in our centers and then they can invite their friends, so that it can
grow. We are not only in Afghanistan, we also have some female students in Pakistan and
we have started in Egypt as well. [7:39]

SM: How do you make money.... like, how do you provide the bitcoins to pay the bloggers
with? [7:46]

Farsha: (??) space on online advertising so whenever you produce blogs and video space on
the contents of the other people that share your blogs. If you share other peoples blogs,
which is important, you will get paid by the measurement that we call it (??) which is our
measurement, which is your social activity, whilst we pay you based on your activity. [8:11]

SM: If somebody is living in Pakistan, Afghanistan or Egypt, how much can they make doing
something like this? [8:18]

RM: It is dependent on their works and activities. Some students can get paid like $500,
some students only can get $50/$200, and it just depends on how much they are active.
[8:34]

SM: Per blog post or per week? [8:37]

RM: No, its per month. *8:39+

SM: Oh, per month, OK. [8:40]

RM: Yes. [8:41]

SM: If youre in Afghanistan, that might go further than New York City, right? *8:45+

RM: Yeah, I mean $100 is a lot of money for them and then they can do everything with
them, even some of the families or parents who are working outside would probably be
$100/$120. $100 only for one female is a lot of money, especially when they are students
of schools. [9:04]

SM: Yeah, definitely. I want to talk about women in Bitcoin. Recently we were just talking
about this. Farsha and I just filmed an interview about women in Bitcoin and the media
perception that there are no women involved in Bitcoin. What do you think about this as
people who have a company that exists to bring women on board and pay them with
Bitcoin? [9:28]

Farsha: I think its not only... its like a typical thing for business or technology. Womens
involvement is always less than men but I think the important thing is that we have to make
and build a very strong community. I think we believe in community building, which is not
always as physical spaces or geographical places. Online community building is very
important so thats why we try to let the women who have certain problems in specific
countries, maybe they are security problems. They cannot go out so we invite them to
come online and support each other. If I have a very good experience on Bitcoin, I definitely
would write a blog about it. I have this way that I made this digital wallet, I really loved it
and I can send and receive money. I love my friends who also have the benefit of that. I will
tell my friend and my friend has another friend, so its all about spreading the word. Of
course, whenever we reward a person in Bitcoin, they will believe that definitely this
currency will help them more. Step by step, this message will be spread around the
community, so we believe that its not only a discussion for men but also for women that
can empower them. [10:42]

SM: If someone is a blogger on this platform and they get paid in Bitcoin and theyre living
in Afghanistan, how do you provide support for them to use other types of Bitcoin wallets or
teach them how to do transactions, or do they just kind of figure that out by themselves?
[11:00]

RM: No, we provide training for them. We have a plan that for the future that also we will
provide training on how they can do mining. Right now, they just know how to get their
money and about the transaction and how to make the wallet but, in future, we want to
teach them how to do the side of the mining bitcoins. [11:19]

SM: Great. [11:20]

Farsha: We always try to update our users in FilmAnnex and WomensAnnex platform.
Thats why we always, every day or every two other days, we write a blog about our certain
changes in the platform and everything about Bitcoin because we just shift to Bitcoin, so we
are going to let the users. We always update them about everything and Roya said, we are
providing a certain training for girls in schools like how to make a digital wallet and for other
users. We always try to keep update the users and give them the information so they feel
free to interact with us and well let them put their comments, or their ideas in to blogs. We
go through the questions and we try to reply to them in blogs or video. [12:01]

SM: Yeah, that makes total sense. OK, anything else you want to add? [12:06]

Farsha: Thank you very much and it was very nice meeting you here and we found a lot of
interesting people here in Bitcoin conference and were really looking forward to make a
huge change in Afghanistan, not only for women but for men also. Yeah, looking forward
for a bright future for everyone around the world. [12:24]

RM: Thank you so much for everything. [12:26]

SM: The websites where people can find out more? [12:30]

Farsha: Yes, www.FilmAnnex.com and www.WomensAnnex.com. [12:33]

SM: OK, Farsha and Roya, thank you so much for your time today. [12:36]

Farsha & RM: Thank you very much for having us. Thank you. [12:38]


____________________________________________



Adam B. Levine interview with Dmitry Murashchik


AL: Im sitting here this morning with Dmitry, known as Rassah online. Hes the
community manager, right? [12:56]

DM: Mhmm. [12:57]

AL: Yeah, community manager with Mycelium wallet which is an Android wallet that has
been my Android wallet of choice since Andreas Peterson first made me download it, I guess
about six months ago, and its still the one on my phone. There was an interesting new
feature that I saw made it into the test version, about a month ago, that Ive been playing
with it. Its this thing called Local Trader. Can you tell us what this is all about? *13:22+

DM: The idea is that, as a new person, you download your first Bitcoin wallet, which we
hope is Mycelium, then you have a question how do I get my first bitcoins? Local Trader is
designed to make that really easy where once you launch the Mycelium wallet, theres going
to be a buy/sell Bitcoin button and once you press it, it will find all the people in your area
who are willing to sell you Bitcoin for cash. In a sense, its like LocalBitcoins but its built
directly into the wallet, so its fully integrated with your Mycelium wallet. [13:54]

AL: How do I indicate that... if I want to sell Bitcoin, I list an order for the price I want to sell
and the area that Im in. [14:02]

DM: Yeah. Its a seller account. For now, we only have standing seller and instant buyers.
Eventually, well have standing buyers as well. You would create a sell order using the same
system, the Local Trader, which lets you create as many sell orders as you want with
different tiers of fees. For example, you can set different prices for different locations,
depending on how difficult it is to get there or different prices for the amount of money that
youre willing to trade for. *14:31+

AL: How does this process work? We want to make a trade and were not in the same area.
Show me what happens here. [14:37]

DM: You would hit the buy/sell Bitcoin. It will use your GPS on your phone to find all the
people who are close to your area organized by the top 10. It will list the sellers, their
ratings, any kind of extra info they want to have, and their prices. Choose any of the
exchange services that can track prices for, plus any kind of fees that they set up, and then
you can have fees even be negative, in case you want to sell really quickly. Once you hit buy
on one of the sellers, it will open a chat window where you can talk to the seller to
negotiate where you want to buy. At the same time, it will tell you exactly how many
bitcoins or how much cash you would trade and how much you would receive. [15:21]

AL: If I dont have that many bitcoins in my wallet, can I place a sell order for them? *15:26+

DM: Since its all integrated, it would actually... if you dont have enough bitcoins to cover
your sell order, it will actually make your sell order inactive at the time, so when you see
somebody selling, youll know absolutely for certain that they actually have the bitcoins to
sell. [15:42]

AL: OK. We go into chat and we are negotiating. Are we talking about price or are we
talking about location? What are we talking about? [15:49]

DM: Both. Until both of you agree on the location and the price, there is going to be a
button there which says Accept Offer, so until you guys actually decide, youre free to talk
it out. If you dont want to trade, you just hit Stop and its not going to affect you in any
way. Once you guys do agree, you have to hit Accept Offer and the reason for that is so
that theres going to be feedback thats built in based on whether you actually follow
through with the trade and how fast you follow through with it. [16:20]

AL: Theres a reputational system built in too. *16:21+

DM: Yeah. If both of you actually accept the offer, if you renege on the offer, its going to
put a ding in your reputation system. [16:27]

AL: Weve agreed, we negotiate and we meet up in person. What happens? *16:32+

DM: Once you meet up in person, you give cash to the seller, the seller will have a cash
receipt button and once that happens, it will automatically transfer money from one phone
to the other without needing to swap Bitcoin addresses. It also has a new feature we have
called a Transaction Confidence Graph. One of our servers is connected to half the Bitcoin
nodes and the other is connected to the other half of the Bitcoin nodes, and it will actually
track the transaction as its getting broadcast and transmitted through the whole network.
On top of that, it will be keeping track for things like double spends, unspent inputs,
malleability and other things, which will affect the Transaction Confidence Graph. For every
unspent output, it will half the Confidence. *17:18+

AL: This is an audio show, so lets talk about this Confidence Graph for a second. Basically,
in practice what Ive seen is that this looks like... this is basically a zero confirmation
confirmation, right? [17:28]

DM: Pretty much, yeah. [17:29]

AL: The idea here is that when the transaction is broadcast by the person selling the bitcoin,
you are tracking how far around the network it gets. If it gets all the way around the
network, or gets to most of the network, then the chances of it not being included in a block
are very, very low. Even though it hasnt already been included in a block, you have a high
degree of relative... like so how secure is something like that? Is it possible to have strong
confidence with zero confirmations? [17:55]

DM: The Confidence Graph never gets to 100% because there are still issues that might
happen and Im not really sure what but if the Confidence gets to 99%, that means that a
proper fee was included and pretty much all the network has heard it by now. Theres non-
spent input and its 99% sure that the transaction will get included in the next block. You
cant ever get to 100% because there could be things like chain fork, or something, where
your transaction gets wiped out but its pretty close to 100%. *18:27+

AL: This has been kind of a sticking point in the space is that its really hard a lot of people
have trouble since theres no way to... sometimes a Bitcoin block can take 20 minutes or 40
minutes and its sometimes very difficult to wait that long in a retail situation. This isnt a
local trading application but it seems like this has greater implications in that potentially.
[18:46]

DM: Eventually, well include it in the rest of the application as well and yeah, Im familiar
with that because Ive done trades in person. Sometimes you have to sit there awkwardly
for about an hour from lack to confirm. Yeah, this will definitely fix that. Another really nice
feature with this is your authentication and registration is done using private key message
signing. When you associate your Bitcoin address to your Local Trader account, you dont
need any passwords with that. You authenticate using a private key and all chat between
you and the user is encrypted using your respective private keys. [19:20]

AL: Interesting. [19:20]

DM: The only thing we will store is the Bitcoin address associated with it, whatever user
name you choose and very course location to within one square kilometer and your trade
history for the feedback stuff. In a way, it can be as pseudonymous as Bitcoin itself. [19:40]

AL: One of the final sticking points here is that I noticed that youre basically talking about
the price before you actually meet in person. As weve seen in the last couple of weeks, the
price in Bitcoin can be really pretty ridiculously volatile sometimes when it comes to these
local deals. Do you have any way to deal with local volatility? [19:58]

DM: Yeah. Before you press Accept, the seller and the buyer, Im not sure if that change
might be only one of them, can click the update price button so it will be able to update the
price constantly. Even if you hit the Accept Trade button, one of you can hit the Update
Price button if the price changes too much, and it will unaccept the price again, and then
you guys can continue to negotiate. Since we got Local Trader finished up, it freed up the
time and added resources within Local Trader and will now allow us to pursue the next step
which is going to be HD wallets. [20:34]

AL: I was going to ask about that, yeah. [20:36]

DM: Our next big feature will be HD wallets and after that, things like descriptions to your
transactions, export all your transactions in a commerce and rated value file. CoinJoin too is
going to be in our steps as well. [20:49]

AL: Very cool. Im looking at your product and, like I said, Ive been using it for about six
months and I dont see any monetization in it at all. Is there any plan for that? Is this just a
play to be ubiquitous first? [21:01]

DM: Local Trader will be our first model for that too. We dont require you to go through
Local Trader but if you use our system for convenience sake, we will charge 0.2% fee on top
of whatever the seller charges as well, both on a buy and sell. [21:17]

AL: OK. Thats 0.2%. *21:19+

DM: 0.2%. [21:21]

AL: OK, cool. [21:21]

DM: After that, were also looking into adding things like altcoins which may end up being
as plug-ins that you download for a little bit of extra money, and merchant options, and
things like that. Were looking to hire developers right now to kind of help us out with this
since we are focusing more on the HD wallet side of it. [21:39]

AL: Your group is based out of Austria? [21:41]

DM: Austria, Vienna. [21:42]

AL: Yeah. It sounds like youve got some impressive features. I know that one of the other
projects that Mycelium has had on the back burner for a while, has been this wireless card.
Is that still on the table at all? [21:53]

DM: Definitely. Our hardware guys are actually in the process of evaluating some test
hardware right now. They probably will get the prototypes by the end of spring or so.
[22:04]

AL: Great, terrific. Im glad thats making progress again. *22:07+

DM: We still have no idea when its going to be out but all of us are really anxious to get it
out obviously. [22:14]

AL: Im just glad that its still being worked on, like I said. Thats the important part here.
[22:18]

DM: The main issue that turned out to be is that the idea ended up being a little bit ahead
of its time, so the hardware wasnt quite out yet but it is kind of... all the new stuff thats out
right now will hopefully be enough to cover it. [22:29]

AL: Thats the thing; just wait a couple of years, right? (Laughter) [22:31]

DM: Pretty much. (Laughter) [22:33]

AL: Rassah, anything else we need to talk about here? [22:36]

DM: No, thats about it. [22:36]

AL: Well, it was great catching up with you again and I look forward to seeing your
continued progress in Mycelium wallet. If people are interested in Mycelium wallet, where
should they go to to download it? [22:44]

DM: www.Mycelium.com or search for Mycelium on Google app store. [22:49]

AL: Thats M_Y_C_E_L_I_U_M? *22:52+

DM: Yeah MYCELIUM. [22:54]

AL: Great, terrific. Thank you for your time man. [22:57]


___________________________________________


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___________________________________________


Stephanie Murphy interview with Neill Miller and Jonathan Zevallos


SM: Im Stephanie Murphy from Lets Talk Bitcoin and Im here at the Inside Bitcoins New
York City conference and Im talking with Neill Miller and Jonathan Zevallos from Altcoin
Labs. They also started the first altcoin meetup. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. [24:20]

NM & JZ: Thank you. Thanks for having us.

SM: Altcoin Labs. I want to talk about that but first, tell me about the altcoin meetup that
you started up. Why altcoins? [24:29]

NM: Generally speaking, I got into Bitcoin back in 2011 as a miner and I was just kind of
interested in it. [24:35]

SM: As a miner? [24:36]

NM: Yeah, yeah. Not a big time miner, no nothing like that. As the years went by I actually
didnt hear about Litecoin until at some point last year, probably around April. I just got
fascinated by it, and then I heard of Feathercoin and like, some of these older coins,
Peercoin and stuff. I just thought that was much more interesting, personally, than Bitcoins
themselves. [24:58]

SM: Why were those more interesting than Bitcoin? [25:01]

NM: Im in there and I like Bitcoin a lot. I think the technology is amazing but it felt kind of
slow pace. I know thats crazy to say because Bitcoins extremely fast pace but compared to
altcoins and I felt like the communities of the different altcoins were like coming out in
different ways. I almost liked the different attitude, maybe. [25:21]

JZ: Definitely. When we started up the meetup in Chicago, it started late September and
basically, from there in late September, Dogecoin was released and it completely changed
the landscape. People went from this very serious cryptocurrency blockchain Bitcoin to
playful, Shiba Inu meme on a coin. I thought it was hilarious. I thought it was awesome.
Altcoins made that possible. [25:54]

SM: Had you been interested in Bitcoin too Jonathan? [25:57]

JZ: Oh yeah... definitely, definitely. I first heard about Bitcoin in 2011. I became a miner,
not a Bitcoin miner but a Litecoin miner in early 2013, so basically my logic was, Bitcoin is no
longer GPU mineable so the derivative is going to be the next thing that is very successful
and sure enough, Litecoin was extremely successful. [26:19]

SM: Yeah, so Im hearing a little bit of like... you wanted to be involved with something
from the very beginning and something that feels exciting and has a lot of energy
surrounding it and perhaps Bitcoin has moved beyond that point a little bit, and so altcoins
are where its at for you guys. Is that right to say? *26:37+

NM: Yeah, I think that sounds about right. The other thing about altcoins is just that truly
they are really alternatives, so there are different innovations happening. I think Dogecoin,
of course, was just kind of a joke and it kind of blew everyones mind though because
people seriously are using it for stuff. There are actually high volumes of trades on it.
Different aspects draw people in and it just seems that theres a lot more questions to be
answered and I think it also makes it a little bit more fun. Bitcoins a little intimidating, I
think, to some people. Not to me in particular but I just think that some new people coming
into it, its sort of... *27:13+

JZ: To add onto that as well. I feel like altcoins provide a niche. They provide consistent
innovation. Now, granted all these altcoins can exist. Theres thousands of altcoins created
in the market. Some of them are complete clones but the few that are very innovative
basically gain value within market cap, within community and you see this kind of
innovation backed by BTCs, essentially. People gain confidence in market share and
community. [27:50]

SM: Jonathan, you said that you had some people show up at the altcoin meetup who were
kind of like disinterested in Bitcoin but they were really excited about Doge, for instance.
Tell me more about that. [28:02]

JZ: Its funny because one of my very good friends, Matt, he worked at MicroCenter. He
wasnt at all interested in Bitcoin as much as the derivatives but what got him very excited
was Dogecoin and the community of tipping. A lot of people showed up to our meetup just
because Dogecoin was like this charity coin, instead of Bitcoin where people are very
intimated by a lot of the political aspects and the technical aspects. Dogecoin was kind of
this playful, fun thing that gave charity to different organizations, tip to each other and they
treated it as fun. That opened the space for so many different kinds of people coming in.
[28:44]

SM: What altcoins got you the most excited and why? Neill, you said that you see
innovation happening in altcoins, whereas it doesnt necessarily take place, at this point,
within Bitcoin. Which innovations are you particularly excited about? [28:58]

NM: I think what first excited me about Litecoin in general was it never really occurred to
me to swap out the proof of work algorithm and when I saw that something was actually
doing it successfully and had created a whole new network of miners, basically a whole new
economy, that was a really exciting idea for me. I was really into Feathercoin as well. I
realized that they didnt necessarily change anything, or necessarily innovate but them, in
particular, I thought their community was just extremely exciting. I was definitely more
involved I would say with the Feathercoin community than Litecoin, in particular. Then, it
just kind of snowballed from there. By the time Doge came out, its now to the point where
altcoins are coming out every day, basically. Its hard to say, on any given day, what the
innovations are but, generally speaking, theyre tweaks to the algorithms, tweaks to maybe
even like proof of stake versus proof of work smaller innovations perhaps. I think that also
bigger ones too like the ideas of encrypted blockchains, or Darkcoin. These are interesting
things. I dont know how theyre going to pan out but Im really curious and Im glad that
somebody is doing it. [30:09]

JZ: I would actually say Im kind of a big analyst and I always look at Bitcoin Talk to look to
the new announced altcoin. I just love doing that. I love seeing the innovation behind it. I
love, for example, seeing ProtoShares, now BitShares, kind of like digital autonomous
corporation proposal. Another obscure coin, Huntercoin which basically has a game built on
the whole blockchain. Every move that you can actually make on Huntercoin is seen
through the blockchain building as a ledger for these moves youve performed in an
MMORPG. I feel like that lays the foundation for so many innovations. [30:53]

SM: Wow! [30:54]

JZ: Its these really obscure coins that people just dont know about and I feel like theyre
going to refine the blockchain. Theyre going to create their own market shares and, in the
end, theyre going to be worth significant value. Significant within whatever niche they kind
of fulfil. [31:11]

SM: What do you think makes an altcoin stand out? There are just so many altcoins now.
What do you think defines a successful altcoin from the ones that fail? [31:20]

NM: There definitely are so many. I would say community is a really big one. Dogecoin
taught me that. I would say that technical innovation is another. Even just the shift over to
Litecoin, that was the first one. There are a lot of new algorithms coming out too like X11,
and stuff like that. These things are like... I think that theyre a big deal but there also
somewhat incremental steps so, its hard to pinpoint on any one thing. Its sort of a
combination of everything. Like Bitcoin is pieced together by all kinds of different
cryptographic ideas but basically, everything fell into place properly and the timing was right
where people were actually interested in it and its taking off.

JZ: I would agree with Neill in the sense that it really depends on the type of niche that it
fulfils. It depends on... I always call it market demand, right? Cryptocurrencies, I think,
there is a market demand. I would actually argue with Dogecoin. There was a market
demand. People probably felt like it was... Bitcoin was too serious, the market was getting
spammed with all these scrypt coins that they didnt like and they didnt believe in, so
people mined Dogecoin. I know, I did to be ironic and funny and sure enough, ironically and
funnily enough, its now a serious currency. The jokes kind of being played on... not even
on us... its just awesome! *32:47+

SM: Its just a joke! (Laughter) *32:48+

JZ: Yeah. I wouldnt even say its just a joke. Its an evolving joke. Its great. I think its
awesome and it really depends on the niche at the time. Thats what I would say. *33:01+

SM: Cool. What goes on at an altcoin meetup? What do people talk about and do people
have projects that theyre working on? Is it more just a social kind of event? [33:12]

NM: Generally speaking so far, its just largely been discussion. Were trying to form a base
of sort of regular members and we do have a fair number at this point. Later, in mid June,
were actually hoping to do an event where we can bring in some of the devs or external
influences and host a big event. Im sure well have to talk to you more about that later on
as it gets closer and we give more details to it. Thats sort of... were looking towards
promoting something like a mini conference/workshop. [33:42]

JZ: The big thing is the devs. We want to essentially put a face to the coin. I think the
biggest problem in the altcoin market is trust. IPO coins, right? You dont know whether or
not these people are going to take your bitcoins honestly. Just so much funding and so
many changing things, its overwhelming. We want to refine that and say Hey, this person
is trustworthy, theyre in this market, theyve built this and this is their product, this is their
coin. We just want to refine that. [34:13]

SM: Have you ever thought about maybe putting out or defining a set of best practices for
new altcoins? Or, a kind of vetting process for new altcoins to just look for red flags when
they first start before people start investing in them? [34:29]

NM: I think thats a really interesting thing. We definitely have our own opinions on that.
We tend not to publicize them, at least yet, because some of the coins that we had
criticisms about are actually doing pretty well, at least for now, or have done better than we
originally thought. For example, some coins appear to have a strong lack of developers
which we think is a really bad thing for a coin and then, it turns out, for some reason the
community, the developers come later. I think that that is a really important thing so really
time can only tell. I dont know, I mean its hard to really put out hard and fast guidelines, I
guess. [35:06]

JZ: I would definitely agree with that, I mean, theres proof of stake, proof of work, theres
IPO coins and theres scrypt coin, X11, SHA 256. The landscape is constantly changing.
Honestly, to put a set of guidelines not only is it difficult, but it would just be a little bit
arrogant of us to put that out there. I really think that it depends again, on the community.
It depends on what the niche demand is during that moment, what the market demands
and the type of innovation people push forward. I would actually say Dogecoin has pushed
an innovation. That innovation is community. It defined a coin through donations, and
community, and being trustworthy, and nice. I think thats awesome! [35:50]

SM: It sounds like an exercise in open-mindedness. Would you say this has expanded your
boundaries a little bit in terms of the way that you think about what a coin should be?
[36:01]

NM: We all know there are so many coins and I hear about new ones all the time.
Sometimes my first reaction is also that these new coins that I hear about is, its a joke.
Again, a joke sometimes works apparently. Yeah, its definitely opened my mind. Its hard
to take anything too seriously until some time has actually passed. We really just need to
watch the coins the best that we can. [36:26]

JZ: I think one of the big advantages Ive always had in the altcoin space was that I was
always open-minded. I always thought that derivatives are going to be stronger in some
way. Theyre always going to push innovation. Working on Bitcoin, youre working on a $5
billion project; you dont want to mess anything up. You dont want to do an extreme
change. With altcoins, it gives us space to kind of experiment. That has its good and bad to
it, just like an open market. Its a double-edged sword but, in the altcoin space, I feel like its
a completely wonderful double-edged sword. [36:57]

SM: In order for altcoins to grow and to get adopted by more people and used by more
people, do you think that there are certain things that need to happen like multi-currency
wallets, or infrastructure for different altcoins, or anything like that? Or, do you not really
have that kind of agenda? Are you just getting people together and then seeing what grows
out of that? [37:19]

NM: Yes, I think that theres a big development problem. Thats not currently our focus
now. We are more focused on just trying to get people exposed to the different altcoins in
the landscape and they can see where their place fits. I am a developer myself but, at least,
thats not where Ive been thinking of putting my talents. I look at things like Multichain.net
and its really neat because you can have a ton of different wallets but then again, you can
kind of do that in exchanges, and then theres the trust question. Do you trust any of these?
Personally, no I dont. I think just basic security as a whole, even for Bitcoin, just needs to
keep improving, and I think it will over time. Altcoins will benefit from any of the
innovations anywhere. Bitcoin will also benefit from any of the altcoin infrastructure
developments. [38:04]

JZ: Not only that, I think the bigger thing is to have a completely agnostic end processing
system where you can actually send Dogecoin, Litecoin, whatever down this QR code, right?
It would automatically be recognized by the system, just kind of compare hashes and then it
would accept Doge, Lite, Bitcoin. I think that would be huge. [38:26]

NM: So the receiver can receive it in, basically, the currency of their choice too. That would
be truly amazing from a usability standpoint. [38:35]

JZ: I think truly decentralization is within multiple blockchains. With multiple blockchains
there are more possibilities, niches that can be fulfilled and there are innovations that can
be pushed forward. [38:46]

SM: Tell me a little bit about Altcoin Labs, which is your company that youre both working
on together. What is it? [38:52]

NM: We sort of formed out of Altcoin Chicago. We basically found that a lot of people that
are interested in this kind of stuff but we also are at a point in our lives where we realize our
time is valuable too. We want to teach everyone everything and we can talk all day about
anything but were trying to see if we can actually sort of focus, and putting on things like a
workshop, or whatever, basically costs money and were looking into finding a way to
monetize, or find a balance between our education, goals. I dont know, basically trying to
figure out a good, convenient way for people to learn and for us to do what we need to do
in a non unending discussion section. [39:31]

JZ: Adding on to what Neill said, Altcoin Chicago does fit within a certain niche and
sometimes the information can be completely overwhelming. Basically, what we want to do
is go back to basics. What is a miner? What is the blockchain? How do you build a miner?
What does this computer do? I feel like adoption is critical in education and I feel like thats
kind of being ignored. People want to reach out to these companies and have... whos going
to be the next payment processor? Whos going to accept Bitcoin next? I think the biggest
thing that theyre ignoring is consumer education. Who has backed their dollars with
something that is completely abstract? I feel like Altcoin Labs is going to fill that niche.
[40:19]

SM: Have you done any of that yet, like educating people about how to set up miners? I
think you mentioned something about that Jonathan? [40:27]

JZ: Right. Yeah, actually we do have an event planned at Freegeek Chicago. Freegeek
Chicago is a non for profit org, over in Chicago, that does basically recycling. They actually
take in computer parts from big corporations and they repurpose them with Ubunto and
distribute them according to the volunteer hours that a person has worked there. Its an
open source culture and we feel like some kind of... its the easiest people to talk about with
when it comes to Bitcoin and GPU mining, and building a computer because these people
that are there, theyre thirsty to learn about computers, learn about Ubuntu, learn about
open source systems and we feel that Altcoin Labs, and presentation of the blockchain, and
altcoins, can definitely make them benefit from that. [41:22]

SM: Cool. Anything else you guys want to add? [41:27]

NM: Basically, check out our meetup. Were at www.meetup.com/altcoinchicago and
Altcoin Labs is at www.altcoinlabs.com. [41:35]

SM: Thanks guys. I really appreciate your time today. [41:37]

NM: Thanks for having us. [41:38]

JZ: Thank you. [41:40]


_______________________________________________


Adam B. Levin interview with Michael Perklin

MP: Were putting together the Cryptocurrency Certification Consortium. Its a non-profit
organization. Its to certify people with Bitcoin knowledge so that somebody who says that
they know Bitcoin, we would prove that they actually do. Weve put together tests for a
Bitcoin Lite certification knowledge points that someone with this certification would have
would be that, they understand the blockchain, they understand why they need to wait for
confirmations, they understand key management, they understand basic crypto so they
know what a hash is and basically, all the information that someone would need to know to
accept Bitcoin on behalf of their company. Then, theres a developer specific certification.
People with this certification would be more along the lines of, they know the RPC calls,
they can build a transaction manually, they can really get into the nitty gritty of Bitcoin.
[42:51]

AL: They really understand Bitcoin. [42:53]

MP: Exactly. All the professional industries out there, whether its security, or its finance,
or whatever. They all have professional certifications of one kind. For example, myself in
the security industry, I have a CISSP certification (Certified Information Systems Security
Professional), as well as CISA (Certified Information Systems Auditor). These are industry
recognized certifications that say I know enough about security that I can help your
company do what you need to do. On the banking side, there are either certified
accountants, things like that, but Bitcoin is so new that there really isnt a certification body,
so weve built one. Its a non-profit organization thats already registered and we have
trademark applications out there for all the first certifications that are going out of the gate.
Our goal is to work with educating bodies to ensure that whatever curriculums they are
making for Bitcoin, or for Ethereum, or for any of the cryptocurrencies, they cover the
specific knowledge points in each of the domains of Bitcoin, so that they can train someone
to produce high quality results. [43:51]

AL: This move towards standards and voluntary standards, whereas its essentially an opt in
process rather than a You have to do this, otherwise you cant do this thing. *44:00+

MP: Absolutely. [44:00]

AL: This is not the first time that Ive heard of an approach like this, although you are
targeting an area. Youre talking about Bitcoin knowledge, whereas Ive been looking at
insurance companies and things like that where there are these... there is this level of
certification and quality control but its been really lacking in the ecosystem. It kind of
seems like organizations and efforts like what youre talking about are the solution to that,
right? [44:20]

MP: Yes, absolutely. Hiring managers when theyre looking to bring someone on board to
work on whatever it is theyre working on, they want to make sure that the hire that they
bring in is going to produce quality results for that company. Im sure that many companies
have hired someone who says they have the knowledge on paper but once they start to get
working, after about a month, they realize you know you may have had that on your
resume but you dont really know that area that well. Were hoping to make a standard so
that people, who do have these letters after their name, really do understand Bitcoin and
can truly add an impact to the company. [44:54]

AL: One of the interesting parts about Bitcoin, of course, is that unlike many standards that
are out there, Bitcoin is in flux and Bitcoin is a developing thing. What do you in two years?
Is it going to be the same program? Will there be additional programs of certification that
layer on top? [45:08]

MP: Absolutely, it will not be the same program. Just like the certified accountants and the
certified security professionals, these fields are changing all the time. There are new
technologies coming out; there are new tweaks, there are new problems, new
vulnerabilities, new things that we all need to worry about. Over time, the curriculum will
be adapted to take advantage of new progress, new software and anything else that comes
along the way. There will be committees within C4 that will be dedicated to updating the
curriculum for the Certified Bitcoin Professionals certification, or for the Certified Bitcoin
Technical Expert certification. These committees work alongside existing industry experts.
We envision an (??) updated curriculum that will ensure that people understand the latest
and greatest about Bitcoin. [45:55]

AL: Do you think that there is any differentiation between geography? Is the program
different in China than it is in... for someone in China than it is for someone in the United
States? Are you planning on servicing the international community with this product
immediately, or are you focusing on specific areas? [46:10]

MP: It will be global after that, although the organization was first formed in Canada, it is
going to be a global non-profit organization. What C4 would do is list the knowledge points.
You need to know about this for key management. You need to know about this for privacy,
like why do you use different change addresses, and things like that. Once all the
knowledge points are created, this common body of knowledge can be made available to
educating bodies in schools, universities, so that they can build their own curriculums that
teach each of these knowledge points, so that they can cover all of the aspects of Bitcoin, or
Ethereum. [46:46]

AL: Interesting. This is not something that you plan on administering specifically with this
organization. This is something more where you plan on helping other people teach these
things and then certifying their efforts? [46:54]

MP: Absolutely, yes. [46:55]

AL: OK, great. What havent I asked that I should ask because I feel like theres probably
something Ive missed? [47:01]

MP: I wasnt actually expecting for C4 to be on your show yet or to be public knowledge at
the moment. After this conference, thats when were really going to be getting into gear.
[47:10]

AL: Its a couple of weeks out when were talking now... and were talking right before the
Bitcoin Decentral event, rather, right before the Bitcoin Toronto event. What is the
timeframe on this? What is the rollout? How long do you think it will take for us to see the
first certified individuals? [47:23]

MP: Our committee is already working to build the tests. We have a few hundred
questions already made and we have the knowledge domains already separated. Its just a
matter of giving these tests to existing industry experts so we can get their feedback to
make sure that these tests truly do separate the wheat from the chaff. Its one thing to say
that Oh, Ill ask you a question about Bitcoin but its another thing when industry experts
look at it and say Yes, this really would show that someone understands Bitcoin. By the
summer of this year, really by June, people will be able to write the tests online. For the
larger tests, it will have to be proctored in person, just to make sure youre not cheating, or
whatever. For the larger certifications, they have a very in depth level of knowledge, so it
needs to be at your fingertips when you talk about it. [48:10]

AL: Michael, thank you very much for your time. [48:12]

MP: No problem. Thank you. [48:13]


__________________________________________


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__________________________________________


Stephanie Murphy interview with Mark Edge

SM: This is Stephanie for Lets Talk Bitcoin and I am here talking with a very special friend.
Weve got Mark Edge here from FreeTalk Live. Hi Mark. *49:34+

ME: Hi Stephanie. Thanks for having me. [49:36]

SM: Welcome to Lets Talk Bitcoin. You dont have to get quite as close to the microphone
as you do on FreeTalk Live. Youre looking for an excuse to stand closer. Thats ok.
(Laughter) [49:44]

ME: My co-host Ian is a stickler on mic etiquette so yeah, I have to be very close. [49:50]

SM: Yes, indeed. This is because you are a professional talk radio host. You host the show
FreeTalk Live and I am actually a part of FreeTalk Live. You and I have been doing the
Sunday FreeTalk Live show for... [50:03]

ME: Three years. [50:04]

SM: ...going on three years now. Yeah. [50:05]

ME: Something like that, yeah. You actually were doing the Sunday show before I was
doing the Sunday show. The Sunday show existed for, I think maybe, a year and a half
before that as an online only thing. When we decided to swipe the Sunday show that had
been created by some other activists in the area, I took you along. [50:26]

SM: Yes. Im glad I went along for the ride because its been really fun. FreeTalk Live is a
nationally syndicated show, like we said. Its been on the air for ten years, over ten years.
[50:35]

ME: Yeah, were on 140 radio stations around the country. *50:38+

SM: Mhmm. You also have a popular podcast and the website is www.FreeTalkLive.com if
anyone wants to check that out. [50:44]

ME: Thats right and we do an open lines current events program that has a liberty theme
to it. [50:49]

SM: Yeah, thats the thing about FreeTalk Live. People can call in about anything. Its
primarily a call in show. [50:54]

ME: Yeah and we happen to have talked about Bitcoin before anybody, I think, just about
out there. [51:02]

SM: Well, thats the reason I wanted to have you on Lets Talk Bitcoin because FreeTalk Live
is the way that I first found out about bitcoins and you and your partner Ian there, you were
the first talk radio show to talk about Bitcoin. Youve really exposed a lot of people to it.
[51:18]

ME: What happened was we have this program. Its called the Amplifier program. People
pay $5 a month to get an ad-free version of FreeTalk Live and were happy to provide that.
There are hundreds of those people and Amplifiers get special treatment. These are special
people as theyre paying us, for goodness sake. One of the Amplifiers said that he wanted
to have a meeting to talk about an alternative currency. Now, we talked about alternative
currencies a lot and they are always failures. Its always this disaster or that disaster prior to
us hearing about Bitcoin. This guy wants to talk to us about Bitcoin. He wants to have lunch
and this doesnt happen too often where somebody is like Lets have lunch. Alright, you
want to drive up to Keene, New Hampshire, well have lunch with you and talk about your
magic internet money. (Laughter) This guy comes up. His name is Gavin Andresen. For
those who know anything about Bitcoin, this is the head developer of Bitcoin. I think that
he may have stepped down from that role a little bit recently but I dont know for sure.
Gavin Andresen wants to have lunch and talk about his magic internet money and in the
conversation, I begin to understand the value of Bitcoin but Im sceptical because everything
has failed up to this point. Theres a gold credit card and you can spend gold like youre
spending cash. [52:33]

SM: Oh yeah. If youve been a libertarian for a while, youve seen it all - E-gold people
trying to use silver to buy a sandwich at PorcFest, the whole shtick. [52:42]

ME: Yes, exactly. Its always complicated and convoluted but I support alternative
currencies 100%. I listened to him and I tell him I tell you what. We have a podcast
audience, a large podcast audience that would probably be interested in this. If you want to
do some ads, Ill sell you some podcast ads, low price for your magic internet money. He
actually never took me up on this. [53:06]

SM: The low, low price of 10,000 bitcoins for a spot, right? [53:09]

ME: They were $0.27 a piece. He didnt take me up on that offer to buy podcast ads at the
time. He did, however, ask me to pay for his lunch and then he would pay me back in
bitcoins. I got, I think, somewhere like 36-40 bitcoins for his meal. Thats a pretty good
meal now at bitcoins at $500, or whatever its at. Nice numbers. We talked about it on air.
Thats our job. We like alternative currencies and obviously, we have a tech savvy audience
and one of our listeners, whos also an advertiser, whos also an Amplifier, one of these
guys, his names Roger Ver. If you know anything about the Bitcoin sphere, you know that
this is Bitcoin Jesus. He hears about Bitcoin that night, gets really excited, starts researching
and a few months later, Bitcoin Jesus says to me that, essentially Hey, you know that cash
that I pay you on a monthly basis for advertising? Thats going to turn into bitcoins. Now,
Roger Ver is the nicest person youre ever going to meet but he turned into a gangster that
moment. Hey, this is whats going to happen, right? (Laughter) It was amazing. Im like
OK. I was a little unsure if this was going to be a hit in advertising dollars but thank
goodness, he did it. He eased us in. It was a little bit... a partial and then the full thing
maybe a year later. That was very good for us obviously. If hes Bitcoin Jesus, that makes
me Bitcoin John the Baptist. (Laughter) [54:40]

SM: (Laughter) I love it. I cant believe I have Bitcoin John the Baptist on the show with me.
[54:44]

ME: Yep. My head will be served up on a platter at some time in the near future.
(Laughter) Once the Fed is actually dying in its death throes, thats when theyll do it.
(Laughter) [54:53]

SM: That was the beginning of a long relationship with FreeTalk Live with Bitcoin and now,
from my perspective, Ive been listening to FreeTalk Live for... well, I think Ive been listening
to FreeTalk Live since about 2004-2005. [55:07]

ME: Yeah, youve been listening forever. *55:08+

SM: For a long time. (Laughter) I became a part of the show back in 2010, something like
that. [55:14]

ME: Oh, I think it was earlier than that. [55:15]

SM: Just as like an internet host and a fill in host sometimes, as I was starting out on my
podcasting career. I was listening to the show daily and I heard you talking about bitcoins
and for a while, I was like Hmmm, this sounds really interesting but Im not really sure
about this. [55:32]

ME: They were hard to get back then too. It wasnt easy to get bitcoins. [55:36]

SM: Exactly. I was thinking about Well, maybe I should get some bitcoins but then you
had to go on MtGox and you had to send them money. [55:42]

ME: They wanted a power bill from your house. They wanted all kinds of... photocopy your
ID and send it to us. Are you kidding me? I dont know happens when you do that. Id
never exchanged that way on MtGox and I guess its good that I stayed away from MtGox
mostly. [56:02]

SM: Yeah, that might have been smart. (Laughter) At the time, there were a lot of people
who were part of the libertarian community. We live in New Hampshire and there are a lot
of people who moved to New Hampshire for the Free State project and our social circles.
Libertarians love to blog. They love to have podcasts and they love to do creative things and
so there were lots of people, at the time back in 2011 I want to say, who had podcasts and
blogs, and stores, and online businesses and they were starting to take bitcoins for tips.
[56:34]

ME: In New Hampshire, Bitcoin is really quite big, at least in the communities that I... the
circles that I run in. As a matter of fact, when we saw Overstock.com switched to Bitcoin,
New Hampshire was the number one place in the United States, at least on a map I saw,
that sent bitcoins in and its indicative of how theres a lot of lineage of Bitcoin going on in
New Hampshire. For instance, back in I think 2011, I bought a sandwich with a Casascius
coin, the ones that had the bad minting on it. [57:07]

SM: Oh, you mean the ones that are worth like $20,000 on Ebay? [57:10]

ME: Yeah, those things. I bought a sandwich with one of those and got some change.
(Laughter) From Mandrik, Georges Favorite Baklava. This is how the community works I
buy and sell. People work for me all summer long cutting wood and moving wood on my
farm for bitcoins. [57:28]

SM: Yes. [57:28]

ME: I never pay them cash. There are people... were buying, were selling in bitcoins.
[57:32]

SM: We were doing this in 2011 and 2012. This was more than two years ago. Were at
this Bitcoin conference right now, were at the Inside Bitcoins conference in New York but
this is what I want people to get is that, there was a vibrant, real Bitcoin economy in New
Hampshire among Free Staters when bitcoins were $0.27 to below $10. [57:57]

ME: All you could do with them at the time, on the internet, was basically buy alpaca
socks... [58:00]

SM: ...and baklava, yeah. [58:02]

ME: ...and some chickens, baklava and web hosting services. Thats all you could do with
them there but we were using them and exchanging them because they were viable at that
point. I was using Bitcoin Spinner, which I dont even know if that thing exists anymore.
[58:13]

SM: Oh gosh, me too. Yeah, I remember Bitcoin Spinner. [58:15]

ME: You didnt want to lose your phone there. (Laughter) The bitcoins would be on the
phone and Roger Ver was showing people how to download Bitcoin Spinner. [58:25]

SM: Remember the QT client? We could download the Bitcoin QT client and it took... even
then, it took forever to download the blockchain. Ah, memories. [58:33]

ME: I still keep the QT client going on a computer. I somehow feel like Im helping the
interwebs. (Laughter). I dont know exactly. Its a little faith-based. [58:39]

SM: (Laughter) I do it too because it runs Armory, so if you want to run Armory. [58:44]

ME: Armory has a layover for that, right? [58:45]

SM: Yeah. [58:46]

ME: Theyre here, right down the way there. [58:48]

SM: Yeah, absolutely. These were the days, right? We were using Casascius coins, we were
using Bitcoin Spinner, like you said the Bitcoin QT client, and people were just pasting up
Bitcoin addresses on their blogs and getting tips. They were getting 5 bitcoin, 10 bitcoin
tips. [59:04]

ME: FreeTalk Live has gotten rather... back in the day, rather large Bitcoin tips and there it
was... just sitting there collecting tips. People were sending them in. [59:14]

SM: We had another friend who was doing cam work, basically for Bitcoin, and there were
people posting pictures of themselves online to get bitcoins, right? [59:22]

ME: Id do that if anybody would pay but I mean its not going to help out. *59:25+

SM: Youre going to have to get them to pay you to put your clothes back on. (Laughter)
[59:28]

ME: Right, things like that. The clientele that would be paying me wouldnt be necessarily
the one that Id be wanting to pay me. Its really difficult to get young, beautiful women to
pay you to take your clothes off. Its just not going to happen. *59:38+

SM: Thats why you just have to pretend. *59:40+

ME: Youre right, just pretend. (Laughter) Yeah, that wouldnt work out. *59:43+

SM: The things that people were doing with Bitcoin back several years ago, at this point.
When I look back on them now, I feel really honored to have been a part of that beginning
of the practical use cases for Bitcoin, in New Hampshire. [59:58]

ME: Were the little seed pot for Bitcoin and now its well outgrown the seed pot and Im
delighted. All I ever wanted was for Bitcoin to go mainstream. I mean, I got the T-shirt, I
can say Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did whatever in 2011 and its cool. Thats fine. I want it to go
huge because its so empowering. Its going to help people around the world. The people
who dont have money today, it resets the playing field from 9,000 years of totalitarian
statism. Thats what I want to see happen and thats going to be a tremendous thing that
Bitcoin can do. Its going to help underserved markets, poor people, people of ethnicities,
people in third world countries, women... all the people that have a difficult time accessing
bank accounts. Bitcoins going to make that entirely different for them. Theyre going to be
on an even playing field. Theyre going to be able to apply their labor and drag themselves
out of the mire, rather than taking handouts as theyve been doing up til now. *1:00:56+

SM: Yeah, absolutely and I know you just personally are interested in micro-lending. Youre
the one who told me about Kiva. [1:01:02]

ME: Right, I love Kiva. [1:01:02]

SM: Yeah, me too and you and I both lend on Kiva and how amazing would it be if they
started taking bitcoins, or if there was a competing institution that came up. [1:01:12]

ME: Thats what Im expecting. *1:01:13+

SM: BitKiva. [1:01:14]

ME: Im not expecting the big players to necessarily switch over. Im expecting other
institutions to come and rise up because Bitcoins exciting to them. The people in the
Bitcoin sphere... theres hundreds and hundreds of people at these events, sometimes
thousands of people at these events and every one of these people is excited and doing
something. [1:01:33]

SM: Yeah. Everybodys got a project. [1:01:35]

ME: Some young college kids... this is what I want to do... I dont think thats going to work
but it takes people that fail for people to have success. [1:01:45]

SM: Oh yeah, yeah. [1:01:46]

ME: Im thrilled with whats going on with Bitcoin. [1:01:49]

SM: Yeah, totally. Mark, I want to thank you for introducing me to Bitcoin. [1:01:54]

ME: Youre welcome. *1:01:55+

SM: (Laughter) Those stories are just so cool. One of the ones that Id like to tell, and I think
this has been on the show before but, is when Gavin actually said hed purchased 10,000
bitcoins for like $50. He was running the Bitcoin faucet. [1:02:10]

ME: Yes. [1:02:10]

SM: This was back years and years ago and you could go to this website and get 5 bitcoins,
as long as you put it in a Bitcoin address. [1:02:16]

ME: Yep, thats right. *1:02:17+

SM: Can you imagine if people held onto them? [1:02:18]

ME: Some people did. I know I went to the faucet and I got... I dont know what I got. It
seemed like it was less than 5 bitcoins but I went to that faucet and I got some bitcoins and I
funded my account. I put it in MyBitcoinWallet.com account and it summarily, a few
months later, got hacked. [1:02:35]

SM: Oh, yeah. MyBitcoin, I remember that. [1:02:37]

ME: Yep. It was at MyBitcoinWallet. [1:02:39]

SM: Thats when we all learned the painful lesson of dont keep your bitcoins in third party
web wallets. [1:02:44]

ME: Yeah, thank goodness that we learned that lesson because now other people dont
have to learn that lesson. Every bump in the road, were going to have to... the carriage is
going to have to get jostled and we have to learn these things. [1:02:55]

SM: Yeah, absolutely. FreeTalk Live is on seven nights a week. You Mark, are on six nights a
week. [1:03:01]

ME: Thats right. *1:03:02+

SM: Theres kind of a rotating schedule of hosts. You and Ian are both on six nights per
week and most of them overlap but one night doesnt overlap. On Sunday night, you are
on, Ian is not on. [1:03:14]

ME: Thats correct. *1:03:14+

SM: I am on with you. [1:03:15]

ME: Thats correct. You are my co-host on that evening. [1:03:17]

SM: That may have been a little more confusing than it needed to be. [1:03:20]

ME: You are my Sunday show co-host. [1:03:21]

SM: (Laughter) Yes. There we go. You can hear Mark and I together on the radio on
www.FreeTalkLive.com. You can listen on the internet or you can check the local radio
affiliates there. [1:03:31]

ME: We talk about anything and everything on FreeTalk Live. [1:03:34]

SM: Bitcoins are still a frequent topic of conversation on FreeTalk Live. [1:03:39]

ME: Im delighted about Bitcoin. I think its going to change the world. [1:03:41]

SM: Yes, me too. We get a little cross-pollination going and Mark, thank you so much for
being on Lets Talk Bitcoin with me. [1:03:47]

ME: Thanks Stephanie. [1:03:48]


____________________________________________


CREDITS:

Thanks for listening to Episode 108 of Lets Talk Bitcoin.

Content for this episode was provided by Farsha, Roya, Rassah, Neill, Jonathan,
Michael, Mark, Stephanie and Adam.
This episode was edited by Denise Levine, with additional edits by Adam B. Levine.
Music for this episode was provided by Jared Rubens and General Fuzz.

Any questions or comments, email adam@letstalkbitcoin.com.

Have a good one! [1:04:14]

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