Dingle Oct. 1, 2014, Pretrial Transcript

1
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE CENTRAL DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
SPRINGFIELD DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
PLAINTIFF,
VS.
LEON DINGLE, JR. and KARIN
DINGLE,
DEFENDANTS,
A P P E A R A N C E S:
FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
MR. TIMOTHY A. BASS

MR. ERIC I. LONG
ASST. U.S. ATTORNEYS
318 SOUTH SIXTH
SPRINGFIELD, ILLINOIS
FOR DEFENDANT LEON DINGLE:
MR. EDWARD M. GENSON

MS. BLAIR C. DALTON
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
53 W. JACKSON
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS
FOR DEFENDANT KARIN DINGLE:
MR. RONALD J. CLARK

ATTORNEY AT LAW
820 W. JACKSON BLVD.
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS
18
19
21
22
23
24
25
OCTOBER 1, 2014
16
20
12-30098
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE RICHARD MILLS
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
15
17
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
)
COURT REPORTER:
KATHY J. SULLIVAN, CSR, RPR, CRR

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
600 E. MONROE
(217)492-4810

1
2
I N D E X
WITNESS
DIRECT
CROSS
REDIRECT
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
E X H I B I T S
GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT
NUMBER
IDENTIFIED
ADMITTED
DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT
NUMBER
IDENTIFIED
ADMITTED
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
RECROSS
1
2
3
4
5
P R O C E E D I N G S
*
THE COURT:
Thank you, Madam Clerk.
Good
Well, it's a lovely day out there today, but I

hear we've got bad weather on the way.
ever thus, so we're just glad to be here.
afternoon, everyone.
All right.
But it is
This is cause number 12-30098,
entitled United States of America versus Leon
10
Dingle, Jr., and Karin Dingle.
11
defendants are present in open court in their own
12
proper persons.
13
his counsel of record, Mr. Edward Genson.
14
see you again, Mr. Genson.
15
16
17
18
Both of the
And Mr. Dingle is represented by

Nice to
And also by Blaire Dalton, I believe.

Ms. Dalton, so nice to have you.
And Ronald J. Clark is present on behalf of
Mrs. Dingle.
19
MR. CLARK:
Good afternoon, Your Honor.
20
THE COURT:
Mr. Clark, nice to see you.
21
MR. CLARK:
Thank you.
22
THE COURT:
And of course both the
23
defendants are present in their own proper persons.
24
The Government is represented by Assistant
25
United States Attorney Timothy A. Bass, Mr. Bass.

1
2
3
And also by Mr. Eric Long.
Mr. Long, nice to
have you with us.

We also have present at the Government's table
from the U.S. Postal Department, Inspector, is it
Basil or Basil?
MR. DEMCZAK:
THE COURT:
MR. DEMCZAK:
THE COURT:
10
11
12
13
Basil.
Demczak?
Demczak.
And also Special Agent from the
IRS, Mr. Landon Smith.

All right.
Very good.
Then I guess those are all of our
players at the moment.

Now, one little housekeeping thing I want to
14
clear up before we proceed for the final pre-trial
15
conference.
16
have references to Mr. Dingle and to Dr. Dingle.
17
And I would like to get that clarified off the head
18
end here.
19
20
Now, Mr. Genson, what is the title doctor,

either behind or in front of --
21
22
And that is the question of title.
MR. GENSON:
Your Honor.
23
THE COURT:
24
MR. GENSON:
25
He has a doctorate degree,
Beg your pardon?

A doctorate degree, Your
Honor.
We
THE COURT:
MR. GENSON:
THE COURT:
MR. GENSON:
THE COURT:
Public health.
And where was
Union College.
And that is a Doctor of Public
Health.
MR. GENSON:
THE COURT:
10
MR. GENSON:
11
THE COURT:
12
Public health, Your Honor.
that obtained?
Of what?
All right.
Ph.D.
It's a Ph.D.
Yes, Your Honor.
Very well.
Then in that case we may utilize
13
that title throughout the course of the case and the
14
trial if that is your desire.
15
MR. GENSON:
16
THE COURT:
It is, Your Honor.

All right.
But I want it to be
17
clearly understood that the jury is going to be made
18
aware of what that title is and what it represents,
19
rather than leave them with the impression that he
20
is a medical doctor.
21
MR. GENSON:
22
THE COURT:
23
24
25
We understand, Your Honor.

All right, fine.
Any problem
with that, gentlemen?

MR. BASS:
No, Your Honor.
We intended to
do that anyway, so...

THE COURT:
Well, we'll get that all
cleared out so we don't have any kind of adversarial
situation.
end.
We'll just clarify that at the very head
And let me take care of that.
that matter with the jury.
have any other discussion about it.
MR. GENSON:
THE COURT:
I will handle
So I do not expect to
All right?
Yes, Your Honor.

So if you, Mr. Genson, would
10
prepare me a short biography for Dr. Dingle.
11
does not have to be long and elaborate, just a very
12
short one, so that I will have all of the details
13
when I begin the jury voir dire.
14
Okay?
15
MR. GENSON:
16
THE COURT:
17
18
It
Yes, Your Honor.

Good.
We'll get that settled
right off the beginning.

Now, to our final pre-trial, let's get the
19
background.
20
Dingle, are charged by superseding indictment with a
21
number of counts, including conspiracy to defraud
22
the United States in violation of Title 18 U.S. Code
23
371, mail fraud in violation of Title 18 U.S. Code
24
1341, and engaging in monetary transactions in
25
property derived from specified unlawful activity,
The defendants, Leon Dingle and Karin

money laundering, in violation of Title 18 U.S. Code
1957(a).
Now, my understanding is that the defendants
Jacquelyn Kilpatrick and Edmond Clemons are planning
to enter guilty pleas prior to trial, while Mr. and
Mrs. Dingle, Dr. Dingle and his wife, intend to
proceed to trial.
Now, in reviewing the docket I see that
Mr. Clemons has a change of plea hearing set for
10
tomorrow before Judge Schanzle-Haskins.
11
Mr. Wise advised my chambers by telephone that
12
Ms. Kilpatrick intends to proceed in a similar
13
manner prior to October the 20th, which is the date
14
we're set to begin.
15
And
Now, as I stated, the jury trial is currently
16
set to begin on March 20, 2014.
17
Schanzle-Haskins will be outside the district that
18
week, jury selection will begin before me at
19
9:00 a.m. on that day in this courtroom.
20
Today this is a motion hearing and slash final
21
pre-trial conference.
22
motions.
23
And because Judge
There are a few pending
When we last met there were issues surrounding
24
the Government's Santiago proffer and alleged
25
co-conspirator statements.
So today would be a good

time to address any issues regarding admissibility
that remain as to the Santiago proffer.
On August the 25th, 2014, the Government filed
its Santiago proffer wherein it summarizes the
evidence it intends to present, including the
evidence relating to the alleged conspiracy.
further notes its intent; subject to the Court's
approval, of course; to present a number of alleged
co-conspirator statements of the defendants charged
10
in this case or statements of third parties alleged
11
to be part of the conspiracy.
12
And
Dr. Dingle's response essentially contends that
13
the Santiago proffer fails to specifically identify
14
any co-conspirator statements the Government may
15
seek to introduce and without that information the
16
Court cannot make the required findings to determine
17
the admissibility of the statements.
18
19
20
Now, is that about where we stand at the

moment, Mr. Bass, for the Government?
MR. BASS:
That's the state of the record.
21
I'm not sure what the defense's position is on
22
continuing in that position and their response.
23
you've accurately stated the state of the record
24
with respect to that proffer.
25
THE COURT:
All right.
But
Then I'll turn to

you, Mr. Genson.
MS. DALTON:
THE COURT:
MS. DALTON:
Yes, Your Honor.

Ah, thank you, Ms. Dalton.
Our filing in response to the
Government's Santiago proffer also went into the
fact that we don't think that the Government has
established by preponderance of the evidence that
specifically Quinn Golden and Roxanne Jackson were
members of the conspiracy and thus their statements
10
should not be admissible as co-conspirator
11
statements.
12
didn't allude to any specific statements so that
13
Your Honor could make his opinion about whether or
14
not they've met their burden by a preponderance of
15
the evidence.
16
In addition to the fact that they
In addition to that, we've been informed that
17
Ms. Golden will most likely not be testifying on
18
behalf of the Government.
19
THE COURT:
20
MS. DALTON:
She will not be?

Correct, Your Honor.
Other
21
than that, that's where we rest as far as the
22
Santiago proffer response is concerned.
23
24
25
THE COURT:
All right.
Thank you.
Mr. Bass.
MR. BASS:
Your Honor, do you have the

10
Government's proffer before you?
2
3
4
5
THE COURT:
I do.
I have it here.
Just a
second.
Got her.
MR. BASS:
Your Honor, what the Government
did in its Santiago proffer is, as you mentioned,
laid out -- attempted to lay out a summary of our
evidence in some detail.
type of co-conspirator statements that we intend to
And then categorized the
10
introduce, with the preface that we don't expect
11
that there will be a significant amount of
12
co-conspirator statements because that evidence we
13
expect to come in for other reasons, such as not for
14
the truth of the matter asserted or as admissions of
15
the defendants themselves.
16
So we expect there to be a limited amount of
17
co-conspirator statements, primarily coming from
18
Ms. Kilpatrick, who is going to plead guilty and
19
testify in this trial.
20
pled guilty and will testify in this trial.
21
Ms. Golden, who will not testify.
22
summarized the evidence in our proffer of what we
23
expect to present to establish by a preponderance.
24
25
And Ms. Jackson, who has

And
But we've
Now, it's not a requirement of the law that the

Government essentially provide a transcript of every
11
question that it's going to ask that might elicit a
co-conspirator statement.
faith, to categorize the type of co-conspirator
statements that we expect to elicit.
We've tried, in good
In addition, we've provided the interview
reports of every -- and Grand Jury transcript of
every witness that could possibly be -- that the
Government could possibly call in this case on our
witness list.
10
We've also provided e-mails.
And those really
11
will be with respect to all the three -- all
12
co-conspirator statements.
13
co-conspirator statements will come from e-mails
14
between Ms. Golden and Ms. Kilpatrick or Mr. Dingle.
15
We have provided those.
Several of those
16
So short of a transcript of what we expect
17
these witnesses to testify, we have provided to the
18
defense everything that we expect to present by way
19
of evidence.
20
complied with what a proffer is required to do.
21
And I think in that respect we've
So as to the sufficiency of the evidence, Your
22
Honor, the defendants are charged with conspiracy.
23
If we don't prove the conspiracy, then obviously
24
we're gonna have a directed verdict.
25
submit that the evidence that we've summarized in
But I would

12
the proffer, as well as what was supplemented with
respect to Ms. Golden, and what we're gonna address
here today with respect to the motion in limine;
that being that the Government seeks to admit
evidence regarding Mr. Dingle's relationship with
Ms. Golden and the payment of money to a witness
during the time period of this conspiracy.
other evidence with respect to Ms. Golden, we
believe, establishes her involvement in the charged
10
11
That
conspiracy.
So I think we've established -- I think we've
12
done what we're required to do with respect to the
13
submission of a proffer and I would submit that the
14
evidence we've summarized more than establishes the
15
basis for the Court to make a preponderance of the
16
evidence finding.
17
18
THE COURT:
All right.
Mr. Bass.
19
MS. DALTON:
20
THE COURT:
Your Honor, if I may respond.

Well of course you may.
21
never said no yet.
22
there's always a first time.
23
24
25
Thank you,
MS. DALTON:
I've
And I doubt that I will, but
It will be short.
Just based on the Government's response, we'd

ask the Court to defer ruling on this motion on the
13
Santiago proffer --
THE COURT:
MS. DALTON:
To do what?
Defer ruling until trial,
until there's an offer of proof with actual
statements presented to the Court.
Yes, the defense has received all the witness
statements and all the e-mails, but the Court
hasn't.
what statements the Government intends to use to
And the Court hasn't been able to discern
10
establish that there was a conspiracy and that this
11
witness may or may not, in fact, be a
12
co-conspirator.
13
So for that reason, we'd ask the Court to defer
14
ruling until an offer of proof has been made where
15
the Court can adequately determine whether or not
16
the Government has established a conspiracy by a
17
preponderance of the evidence.
18
19
MR. BASS:
No objection to that, Your
Honor.
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. BASS:
22
THE COURT:
Beg your pardon?

No objection to that.
Well, fine, I accept that, but
23
with a caveat.
24
try this case twice.
25
trial and then all of the sudden have a stoppage and
And that is that we're not going to

And I don't intend to get into

14
then we have to send the jury out and I'm gonna
start hearing testimony and evidence to see whether
or not we live up to the Government's projection.
Now we're not gonna do that.
But I will certainly defer ruling until
everything comes in and then we'll call it.
as the Government's pointed out, if they don't make
it, there's going to be a directed verdict.
nobody wants that particularly; except perhaps the
10
defendants.
11
We're gonna do this by the numbers.
12
So I will defer the ruling until sufficient

evidence comes in to support the Government's
14
position.
15
all over.
And if it doesn't, as Mr. Bass says, it's
16
MS. DALTON:
17
THE COURT:
19
20
And
But we're not gonna go that route.
13
18
Because
Now, let's see.
Thank you.
Okay.
Very good.
All right, we'll defer the
ruling on that.
I think most of the pending motions are now
21
fully briefed.
22
motion in limine pertaining to a number of the
23
issues and the Government has responded.
24
responses include a summary of the anticipated
25
evidence.
Dr. Dingle has filed a consolidated

The
15
The Dingles have also filed a reply to the
motion.
exclusion, the arguments appealing to jurors as tax
payers, which I believe the Government acknowledges
would be inappropriate.
and arguments referencing former Government Rod
Blagojevich.
regarding allegations of Dr. Dingle's infidelity.
9
10
And the motion in limine seeks the
And secondly, any evidence
And three, evidence and arguments
Now, is there anything we need to address other

than what's already in the briefs?
11
MS. DALTON:
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. DALTON:
Yes, Your Honor.

All right, fine.
Ms. Dalton.
We've already informed the
14
Government that we intended to orally amend our
15
motion in limine, our third motion in limine, as it
16
relates to certain physical relationships that have
17
been alleged to have occurred between Dr. Dingle and
18
a number of witnesses.
19
Within the responses and replies to that motion
20
there's discussions about Quinn Golden, as well as
21
somebody, a witness that's been labeled as MA.
22
We'd like to amend our motion to include a
23
couple additional witnesses.
24
upon some additional statements from some witnesses,
25
one of which we'll label as GW for the time being.
The Government came

16
THE COURT:
MS. DALTON:
THE COURT:
MS. DALTON:
THE COURT:
MS. DALTON:
G as in -G as in George.
And W as in
Washington?
E as --
Correct.
All right.
GW, thank you.
To include this GW witness.
The Government, in prepping for trial,

interviewed that witness again.
That witness -- we
10
haven't seen the statement, but I'm going based on
11
what Mr. Bass has told me.
12
agents that she had a romantic relationship with
13
Dr. Dingle and that at some point during that
14
romantic relationship she was paid $700.
15
Apparently GW told
It would be the defendant's position that that
16
implies no evidence one way or the other and is
17
certainly not relevant to this case.
18
romantic relationship that she alleges to have
19
occurred.
20
Government would intend to use it; that at some
21
point Dr. Dingle gave her $700.
22
or indication that she believed that $700 was in
23
exchange for anything else or in response to the
24
work that she was doing on the grants.
25
One being the
Two; and I believe this is why the
THE COURT:
There's no evidence
What do you mean anything else?

17
MS. DALTON:
She did not -- we haven't seen
the statement, again, so this is all speculation
based on what we've been told by Mr. Bass.
didn't make any indication that she thought the $700
was in exchange for anything.
it was just Dr. Dingle giving her $700.
small amount of money.
8
9
10
11
Or a loan.
But she
I believe
Obviously a
But I believe that's what the Government

intends to introduce through that witness.
We would
object and ask that they not be allowed to do so.

The other witness would be -- the Government
12
has alleged that -- or has claimed that they intend
13
to introduce evidence through a witness we'll call
14
E, as in egg, W as in Washington, and Ms. Golden.
15
This has nothing to do with Dr. Dingle.
16
relevance to the case.
17
Has no
Other than that, there's an additional issue
18
that's outside of that particular motion in limine
19
that also has to do with witness EW that we can
20
discuss with the Court after we're finishing with
21
the motion in limine discussion, if the Court
22
decides that's the best way to proceed.
23
I can go into it now.
24
25
THE COURT:
right now.
Otherwise,
Well, why don't we go into it
Let's just -- as these matters come up,

18
if we defer them and put something else in between
then, everything is confused.
be best if we just, while we're on it and while
you've made the statement, why don't we pursue that.
5
6
MS. DALTON:
So I think it would
Okay.
This witness, EW, the Government I think will
be filing a motion or requesting that the Court deem
this witness to be a hostile witness in reference to
this one particular question, whether or not this
10
witness, EW, did or did not have a sexual
11
relationship with Quinn Golden.
12
THE COURT:
13
MS. DALTON:
14
THE COURT:
15
MS. DALTON:
With who?
Quinn Golden.
Quinn Golden.
All right.
Witness EW in proffer answered
16
every single question posed to him by the Government
17
other than the question of whether or not he had, in
18
fact, this sexual relationship with Quinn Golden.
19
That is, I believe, why the --
20
THE COURT:
21
MS. DALTON:
22
THE COURT:
23
MS. DALTON:
Is that Goldwin or Golden?

Golden.
Thank you.
I believe the Government wants
24
to declare EW as a hostile witness so that the
25
Government can ask him this question in trial and so

19
1
2
that he, while under oath, he has to testify to it.

We have received an affidavit from EW's
attorneys affirming that their client, EW, when he
takes the stand, if he's called to take the stand,
will testify truthfully and accurately as to that
question if it is possessed to him.
Government -- or if the Court does not object to it.
Or if we object and the Court does not sustain that
objection.
10
If the
So for that reason, EW is not a hostile
11
witness, should not be declared a hostile witness,
12
because he will answer truthfully per the affidavit
13
of his lawyer.
14
And that ties into this motion in limine in the
15
sense that we still do not believe that any sort of
16
indication or testimony regarding any relationship
17
between Quinn Golden and EW is relevant to this
18
case.
19
Dr. Dingle was charged with and should be precluded
20
from being introduced into evidence.
21
22
It has nothing to do with Dr. Dingle or what
THE COURT:
We're talking about
EW's attorney making an affidavit?
23
MS. DALTON:
24
THE COURT:
25
All right.
Correct.
It was --
How can he make an affidavit
that EW is going to testify truthfully?

20
MS. DALTON:
Well, EW has been asked by the
Government to come back in and continue a proffer
and respond to questions regarding his sexual
advised him, EW, that that type of information is
not necessary as it relates to Dr. Dingle's case and
does not need to come in and just answer questions
about his private sexual relationships to the
Government in a proffer.
10
His attorney has
However, if he is called to the stand and under
11
oath is asked those same questions, he will answer
12
truthfully.
13
to that nature.
14
15
16
17
He will not refuse to answer questions
THE COURT:
Okay.
We'll see what Mr. Bass
has to say now.

Did you have anything else, Ms. Dalton?
didn't mean to cut you off.
18
MS. DALTON:
No.
We basically can rest on
19
what we've already asserted within our motion in
20
limine.
21
rest.
22
As to Governor Blagojevich, we certainly
As to the allegations of any romantic
23
relationships between Dr. Dingle and other
24
witnesses, we've indicated and briefed it in full;
25
that we do not think it's relevant, we think it's

21
extremely prejudicial to the case.
to do with the serious nature of the allegations
that are alleged against Dr. Dingle, will end up
confusing the jury, and leaving the entire
courtroom; the attorneys, the jury; to focus on the
truth and accuracy of these alleged sexual
relationships and will take aware from the serious
nature of the charges against Dr. Dingle.
That would be about it.
10
THE COURT:
11
MS. DALTON:
12
THE COURT:
13
14
It has nothing
Okay.
Thank you, Judge.
Thank you, Ms. Dalton.
All right, Mr. Bass.

MR. BASS:
Your Honor, if I -- if you
15
recall, at the last hearing we asked, or I asked,
16
because of the importance of the issues raised in
17
the defendant's motion in limine, that we be able to
18
address that directly with Your Honor today.
19
that's -- that's what we're doing now.
20
And
But I just -- if Your Honor will recall that,
21
that I know you said that they've been briefed, but
22
because of the importance of these issues to the
23
Government, thank you for the opportunity to address
24
Your Honor directly.
25
THE COURT:
Well, sure.

22
1
2
3
MR. BASS:
I think it's important now to go
back and look -THE COURT:
Listen, people, I want it
clearly understood that I would much rather that we
wrangle about these things well in advance of
getting the jury in the box than having these
surprises come up.
try -- at least I don't try cases by ambush or by
laying in the weeds and then having something come
This is not fun.
And we don't
10
up that all of the sudden taints the whole problem.
11
We don't want that.
12
Now, they're entitled to a fair trial.
And
13
they're gonna get one in this courtroom.
14
want these things to be brought out and let's get
15
these out of the way and move on.
16
17
18
19
And so I
So you're not at all inconveniencing me.
want to make that clear.

Okay, go ahead, Mr. Bass.
MR. BASS:
So, Your Honor, I'll try to be
20
brief, but I may not be -- I'll try to be brief, but
21
because of the -- because of the importance of these
22
issues and the evidence, I think it's important for
23
Your Honor -- for the Government to make sure that
24
Your Honor is aware of the Government's reason for
25
the admission of this evidence.

23
So we go back to the indictment.
Your Honor,
this isn't the first case, this isn't the first
corruption or fraud cause that's based on political
influence, access, money, and personal
relationships, including relationships that are
sexual in nature.
only or will it be the last.
8
9
10
11
This certainly isn't the first or
The Government -- the allegations in the

indictment are that the time period, relevant time
period is 2004 to 2010.
During that time period, Rod Blagojevich was
12
the Governor.
13
called BASUAH, Brothers and Sisters United Against
14
HIV/AIDS; a program designed to address the HIV/AIDS
15
problems within the minority community.
16
In 2005, he announced an initiative
Governor Blagojevich appointed Eric Whitaker as
17
his Director of Public Health.
18
appointed Quinn Golden as his Chief of Staff.
19
Dr. Whitaker
Two years later, in 2007, Governor Blagojevich
20
announced another initiative, the Faith Based
21
Initiative Emergency -- Faith Based Emergency
22
Preparedness Initiative post Katrina; an initiative
23
designed to educate the minority community on
24
emergency preparedness.
25
So there were these two initiatives announced

24
by Governor Blagojevich during his term, during
Dr. Whitaker's term, and during Ms. Golden's term as
Dr. Whitaker's Chief of Staff.
initiatives were implemented through the Department
of Public Health, of which Dr. Whitaker was the
director and Ms. Golden was the Chief of Staff.
And those
Now, with respect to the motion about excluding
the name Blagojevich; the defense is essentially
asking that the Government go through presenting its
10
evidence in this case as if to pretend that the
11
Governor who implemented these initiatives that are
12
the basis of the case didn't exist.
13
refer to him as the Governor.
14
Or we just
But the allegations in the indictment and the
15
evidence in this case, Your Honor, will establish
16
that Dr. Dingle took advantage of and exploited his
17
personal relationships with various people,
18
including Governor Blagojevich.
19
bragged about his relationship with Governor
20
Blagojevich.
21
some of his -- the grantees that are the witnesses
22
in this case attend Governor Blagojevich's
23
fund-raiser and contribute to Governor Blagojevich.
24
25
And that Dr. Dingle
That he attended a fund-raiser and had
But again -- and Dr. Dingle had access to not

only Governor Blagojevich, but to his Deputy Chief
25
of Staff who was involved with the Department of
Public Health in implementing these initiatives.
So in short, Your Honor, the evidence relating
to Governor Blagojevich and his administration,
going from Governor Blagojevich himself down to
Dr. Whitaker and then his successor, Damon Arnold,
and Ms. Golden, will be that Dr. Dingle had unique
and non-merit-based relationships with each of these
people who were deciding how state money was being
10
awarded.
11
to the Governor, Governor Blagojevich, and officials
12
within his administration.
13
That's the basis for at -- for referring
Now, we don't intend to dwell on the name
14
Blagojevich or make any allegation that just because
15
Dr. Dingle was an associate or had access to
16
Blagojevich and just because Blagojevich is guilty
17
of some fraud previously that that makes Dr. Dingle
18
guilty.
19
that at all.
20
We don't intend to assert that or imply
But we do intend to present evidence that
21
Dr. Dingle had this unique relationship, unique
22
access to and influence with the very officials who
23
were awarding state money.
24
that is not only relevant, it's directly relevant to
25
allegations in the indictment as to whether
And it's our view that

26
Dr. Dingle, on a non-merit-based basis received
state money which he then diverted to his personal
use and that of his wife.
So I don't think, with respect to the motion to
exclude the name Blagojevich, I don't think that we
need to go to the extreme of excluding any reference
to the very -- to the name of the very
administration that authorized these funds that are
alleged to have been stolen by Dr. Dingle to begin
10
11
with.
That is unnecessary, Your Honor.
And to the extent there's any risk of unfair
12
prejudice, Your Honor can simply instruct the jury
13
with a mere association instruction that says merely
14
associating with persons engaged in criminal
15
activity does not make the defendant guilty of a
16
crime.
17
7th Circuit that could address any risk by the
18
mention of the name Blagojevich.
19
That's a standard pattern instruction of the
Now, with respect to the balance of the motion,
20
Your Honor; the motion to exclude evidence relating
21
to what has been characterized as Dr. Dingle's
22
alleged infidelity.
23
We don't intend to introduce evidence of
24
infidelity for its own sake.
25
do is to introduce evidence of Dr. Dingle's personal
What we do intend to

27
relationships with people who were in control of
grant money or who received grant money from
Dr. Dingle.
relationship and -- relationships with these people
and his receipt of grant money was not arm's length,
was not merit-based, but was based on him taking
advantage of or at least exploiting his personal
relationships, unique personal relationships with
these people.
10
Again, to establish that Dr. Dingle's
Beginning with Quinn Golden.
She's an alleged
11
conspirator in this -- in the Government's -- not in
12
the indictment, but the indictment references that
13
the defendants conspired with others.
14
those others is Quinn Golden as we allege in our
15
Santiago profer.
16
Well, one of
Quinn Golden was Eric Whitaker's Chief of
17
Staff.
18
EW is the Eric Whitaker, the Director of Department
19
of Public Health.
20
Staff.
21
He's EW, for clarity's sake for Your Honor.
Quinn Golden was his Chief of
Again, the Government's evidence will establish
22
that Dr. Dingle had unique access to both
23
Dr. Whitaker and Quinn Golden during the time that
24
Dr. Whitaker and Ms. Golden were awarding state
25
grants to Dr. Dingle.

28
In fact, one of the pieces of that we're going
to introduce, Your Honor, is that Dr. Dingle
sponsored and paid for awards.
Unity Globe Award, to Dr. Whitaker and Ms. Golden.
And then a second award called a Female Ebony
Strength Award for Ms. Golden.
received a plaque at a cost of $745, paid for by
Dr. Dingle during the time that Dr. Whitaker and
Ms. Golden were approving state grants that they
One award, called a
Each of whom
10
knew were going to Dr. Dingle.
11
the relationships with the people awarding state
12
money.
Again, evidence of
13
Now, during that very time period that they
14
were -- that Ms. Golden was awarding state grants to
15
Dr. Dingle, or organizations that he was associated
16
with, one of the types of grants that were involved
17
here was -- were these grants associated with the
18
Faith Based Initiative, the emergency preparedness
19
initiative to educate the minority community.
20
And MA is one of -- who we referenced in our
21
response to the motion in limine; MA was a person
22
hired by Dr. Dingle and paid for by Dr. Dingle to
23
work on that initiative.
24
that she essentially was largely responsible for
25
preparing that initiative.
She's going to testify
Or at least the initial

29
stages of it.
participated closely with Dr. Dingle and Ms. Golden
in implementing it.
two of them.
That she wrote the initiative and
So she worked closely with the
One day she was summoned to Ms. Golden's
office, she will testify.
Ms. Golden's office unannounced and there she found
Dr. Dingle and Ms. Golden huddled close together
behind Ms. Golden's desk.
10
11
And she walked into
And surprising to
Mr. Dingle and Mr. Golden.

And when Ms. Golden turned around to speak with
12
MA, MA observed; this isn't opinion testimony, this
13
is what she will testify she observed; Ms. Golden
14
partially undressed and re-dressing herself from the
15
waist up.
16
Ms. Golden said to MA, you're doing such a great
17
job, we're gonna pay you an additional $10,000.
18
we have the checks that show that Dr. Dingle did
19
just that.
20
Following which, with Dr. Dingle present,
And
And Ms. Kilpatrick, Dr. Dingle's associate,
21
whose gonna testify in this case, will testify that
22
she was told by Dr. Dingle and MA to pay Ms. -- MA
23
an additional $10,000.
24
25
Now, the Government is going to argue that's a

reasonable inference -- that the reasonable
30
1
2
inference to be drawn from that is hush money.

But the evidence relating to Dr. Dingle and
Ms. Golden, what MA saw, is again, Dr. Dingle's
relationship with Ms. Golden, unique relationship,
non-arm's length, non-merit-based, during the time
that Ms. Golden was awarding state grant money that
went to Dr. Dingle's benefit.
8
9
Now, that's not infidelity for its own sake.

That's evidence of a personal relationship.
And
10
it's certainly evidence of whether or not Dr. Dingle
11
and Ms. Golden were in a conspiracy together.
12
In addition, during that same time period that
13
Dr. Dingle was receiving money from Ms. Golden,
14
Ms. Golden directed Roxanne Jackson; who's pled
15
guilty, along with Ms. Golden, to conspiracy to
16
commit bribery; Ms. Golden directed Dr. Dingle to
17
hire Ms. Jackson as part of these grants.
18
Dr. Dingle did what he was told, he hired
19
Ms. Jackson.
20
a million dollars in less than a year in grant
21
funds, which Ms. Jackson then turned around and
22
kicked back half of to Ms. Golden.
23
is going to testify to that.
And then he paid her three-quarters of
And Ms. Jackson
24
Again, evidence of the relationship between
25
Dr. Dingle, Ms. Golden, and Ms. Jackson, all of whom

31
are alleged in our proffer as co-conspirators.
that's the basis, the critical basis, for why we
introduce this evidence of the relationship.
Now, it happens to be that the relationship
apparently was sexual in part.
non-arm's length basis of that relationship that
goes to the core of the allegations in the
indictment.
So
But it's the unique,
With respect to the -- other relationships that
10
we intend to introduce, Your Honor, that are sexual
11
or romantic in part.
12
There's another woman who will testify in this
13
case, and her name is Gwendolyn Woolridge.
14
the -- she was an employee of the Department of
15
Public Health who reported to Ms. Golden.
16
one of the employees who was instrumental in writing
17
up one of the grants that were awarded -- that was
18
awarded to Dr. Dingle.
19
She was
She was
During the time that she was writing up that
20
grant, she was in a dating relationship with
21
Dr. Dingle.
22
taking her to the Yacht Club.
23
He was taking her out to dinner, he was
And during that time, Ms. Woolridge will
24
testify that she was experiencing financial
25
problems.
And she told Dr. Dingle about that and he

32
provided her with $700 as a loan, which she never
paid back.
What is the relevance of that testimony?
That
Dr. Dingle is in a personal relationship with
someone who is making decisions regarding state
money.
that's Gwendolyn Woolridge.
8
9
10
11
A unique, non-merit-based relationship.
So
Another woman who's going to testify is Claudia

Johnson.
She is CJ in our motion -- our response to
the motion in limine.

The indictment alleges there were three
12
grantees who received a total of $11 million in
13
grant funds during this time period which Dr. Dingle
14
and Mrs. Dingle are alleged to have converted as
15
much as $3.7 million or more of.
16
The indictment alleges that Ms. Golden and
17
others at the Department of Public Health awarded
18
$11 million in grant funds to these three grantees;
19
one of which was an organization called AWARE.
20
Ms. Johnson ran AWARE, so she was one of the
21
grantees who received state money.
22
During the time -- prior to the time that she
23
applied as a grantee for state money, she began --
24
she and Dr. Dingle began a romantic, dating
25
relationship.
And that relationship continued

33
during the time that Ms. Johnson was applying for
$1.8 million in state funds.
She will testify that Dr. Dingle and her were
in this relationship.
decisions.
what checks to write.
funds, she immediately turned around and provided
the funds, almost all the funds, to Dr. Dingle;
except for the funds that Dr. Dingle directed
10
11
That Dr. Dingle made all the
He told her what to do.
He told her
When she received the grant
Ms. Johnson to write to Roxanne Jackson.

So again, what's the relevance of Claudia
12
Johnson's testimony?
13
unfaithful to Mrs. Dingle, but that he was in a
14
relationship with someone who was getting state
15
money and he was exploiting that relationship during
16
the time of that relationship to cause that person,
17
Ms. Johnson, to give him more than a million
18
dollars.
19
more than $200,000 of state money to Roxanne
20
Jackson, half of which went back to Ms. Golden.
21
Not that Dr. Dingle was
And that he directed Ms. Johnson to pay
Again, relationships between Dr. Dingle and
22
people who received -- who were in charge of state
23
money or who received state money.
24
25
Lastly, Your Honor, there is a -- I don't know

whether we'll call this witness.
She's the least

34
important of the witnesses who will testify to this
personal relationship, is a woman by the name of
Shavonda Fields.
She was hired by Dr. Dingle during the time of
these grants to work on the grant work; whether it
would have been the Faith Based Initiative or the
BASUAH initiative involving HIV and AIDS.
there's other programs involving breast and cervical
and prostate cancer.
And then
Dr. Dingle was in a
10
relationship with Ms. Fields during the time that he
11
was paying her with state money.
12
Again, all that evidence is merely to show that
13
Dr. Dingle was in a unique, non-merit-based
14
relationship with people who were in control of
15
state money that was eventually awarded to him.
16
That is, in our view, Your Honor, not only
17
relevant evidence, but it's critical evidence to the
18
Government's case.
19
evidence of fraud and corruption by Dr. Dingle and
20
exclude any evidence relating to the relationships
21
with the people from whom he got that state money?
22
It's difficult to conceive of how we would even
23
present our case were we excluded from doing that.
24
25
Because how do we present
So for those reasons, Your Honor, it's relevant

evidence.
It is not 404(b) evidence.
In the

35
defendant's first motion in limine, they -- he only
argues that the evidence is not relevant.
response we laid out, as I just summarized, why it
is relevant, direct -- directly relevant.
seeking to introduce 404(b) evidence.
In our
We're not
The Government is completely aware of the state
of the law in the 7th Circuit regarding 404(b).
Like you, Your Honor, I don't want to try this case
again.
10
11
I've got another case that we're doing that.
I don't want a second one.

So we are not asking you to admit this evidence
12
based on Rule 404(b), we're only asking you to admit
13
it under Rule 401.
14
would be if it's substantially outweighed by the
15
danger of unfair prejudice.
16
the reasons I've just explained, that evidence, that
17
relevant evidence, is not substantially outweighed
18
by the danger of unfair prejudice.
19
And the basis for excluding that
And I would submit, for
Again, if there's any risk of that, Your Honor
20
can instruct the jury in some way that this evidence
21
is not coming in to show that Dr. Dingle is a bad
22
person or he's an unfaithful husband, it's admitted
23
for the purpose of what I just said.
24
defer to defense on whether they would request a
25
limiting instruction if Your Honor were to allow
And I would

36
1
2
that evidence.
But for those reasons, we'd ask that the motion
in limine with respect to Governor Blagojevich and
the relationships that I just described be denied.
I'm happy to address the other issue that
Ms. Dalton raised regarding Dr. Whitaker, but I
think that's really a separate issue that we can
address separately rather than with the motion in
limine.
10
11
12
13
14
15
THE COURT:
I tend to agree with that --
with that statement.

All right.
Ms. Dalton, I'll give you one final
bite at the apple here.

MS. DALTON:
Thank you, Judge.
Mr. Bass repeated over and over again that the
16
relevance of introducing this evidence of sexual
17
relationships and dating relationships were to show
18
the unique and non-arm's based relationship between
19
Dr. Dingle and Quinn Golden, Gwen Woolridge, Claudia
20
Johnson, and Shavonda Fields.
21
It is absolutely unnecessary for the Government
22
to introduce evidence of physical, sexual relations
23
or dating relations in order to show the
24
relationships period that Dr. Dingle had with all
25
four of those women.

37
Starting with Quinn Golden.
There's no
question that Dr. Dingle had to have a close
of basically running the Faith Based Initiative
after it had been implemented by Governor
Blagojevich.
She was in charge
And so the grantees who received the grants for
that initiative had to work closely with the
Illinois Department of Public Health, the Chief of
10
Staff, and other staff members of the Department to
11
decide what was gonna be done with the grant, decide
12
what the deliverables are, to decide who was gonna
13
work on it, to decide which person was gonna do
14
what.
15
The fact that he had to speak with her on
16
numerous occasions, had meetings with her every
17
week, the Government can introduce that all they
18
want, there's no objection to that.
19
idea that the sexual issue that was allegedly seen
20
by MA on one occasion in 2007 is necessary and
21
relevant to establish this unique, non-arm's based
22
relationship that Dr. Dingle had with Quinn Golden
23
is ridiculous really.
24
25
The -- this
There are plenty of other ways to show the

relationship that the -- legitimate relationship
38
that Dr. Dingle had with Quinn Golden other than to
introduce this very prejudicial statement from MA;
that she ironically didn't tell the Government about
for seven years.
she had with agents, it never came up.
before we're set to go to trial, on September 8th, a
week before, does she all of the sudden decide, oh,
yes, I remember now, I saw this thing happen in the
office on one occasion, I had been summoned to the
Five, six different conversations

Only right
10
office by Quinn Golden already.
11
Golden wanted her to come there for something.
12
Whether it was to tell her that she was gonna get a
13
bonus for all the hard work she was gonna do, or
14
something else, had nothing to do with what Marian
15
Adly, MA, may or may not have seen in that office.
16
So obviously Quinn
And any testimony to that effect is not
17
necessary to show a unique, non-arm's based
18
relationship between Dr. Dingle and Quinn Golden.
19
There are plenty more legitimate and relevant means
20
to do that that the defense would have no objection
21
to.
22
Going on to --
23
The Government alluded to this issue between
24
Quinn Golden and Roxanne Jackson.
25
Golden had Dr. Dingle hire Roxanne Jackson in order
And that Quinn

39
for her to work on grants; which she did; and that
whatever grant money was paid to Roxanne Jackson,
half of which went back to Quinn Golden.
knows that.
filings.
Jackson to that effect.
Everybody
It's been alleged in numerous different
There's been guilty pleas by Roxanne
However, it is important to note that Roxanne
Jackson and Quinn Golden have stated in their
statements to agents that Dr. Dingle knew nothing of
10
11
that agreement that they had together.

Going to Claudia Johnson; this romantic dating
12
relationship that the Government wants to introduce
13
to show that Dr. Dingle exploited her relationship
14
with her so that she would give him grant money.
15
Dr. Dingle and Claudia Johnson started working
16
together in 2004.
17
was a romantic and dating relationship that was
18
going on well up into when she started getting
19
grants through her organization, AWARE, which
20
started in 2007.
21
She -- she has claimed that there
There was no exploitation of any sort of
22
relationship.
23
statements to the effect that she decided, it was
24
her decision to start this organization AWARE,
25
because she wanted to start doing grants as well.
Claudia Johnson has given many

40
And it was her statements to agents that she
realized after starting AWARE and starting to get
grants, that she did not have the resources or the
capability to follow through with all the
deliverables that were necessary to complete the
grant as it was written.
bringing in Dr. Dingle, who she had already worked
with on many other grants, to help her with it.
he got paid for it.
10
11
Therefore, she instituted
And
And there was nothing illegal
about that.
Any sort of information about a dating
12
relationship between the two is irrelevant and
13
unnecessary.
14
how they introduced -- how they were introduced to
15
each other, how long they knew each other, how many
16
grants they worked on together, how much work they
17
did for the grants, without getting into any sort of
18
information about whether or not there was a dating
19
or sexual relationship between the two of them.
20
confuses the issues, it's extremely prejudicial, and
21
it's unnecessary to establish the background between
22
the two of them.
23
There are plenty of means to establish
Same thing with Shavonda Fields.
It
The fact that
24
she was hired to work on grant work; the
25
Government's not claiming that Shavonda Fields

41
didn't do grant work.
extremely large amount of grant work for Dr. Dingle
and organizations that Dr. Dingle was working with.
And she was paid for the work that she did.
paid a reasonable amount.
She did, in fact, do an
She was
The fact that there may or may not have been a
dating relationship between her and Dr. Dingle;
again, completely irrelevant.
doing work and was getting paid for it and was
The fact that she was
10
working with Dr. Dingle, all of that is relevant.
11
All of that, of course, will be introduced at trial,
12
I'm sure, by the Government.
13
there may or may not have been a dating relationship
14
is unnecessary for her, just as it is for Claudia
15
Johnson, just as it is for Gwen Woolridge, just as
16
it is for Quinn Golden, to establish the background
17
of how Dr. Dingle knew, how long he knew, and how
18
often he worked with these women, and what he did as
19
he was working with them on these grants.
20
21
22
But the fact that
I'm not sure if I got to Gwen Woolridge.
didn't.
As far as Gwen Woolridge is concerned, the
23
Government has correctly stated that she was an
24
employee of the Department of Public Health and that
25
they want to get into the fact that she went to

42
dinners with Dr. Dingle and went to Yacht Club, to
his yacht club for lunches with Dr. Dingle.
that that implies a dating, inappropriate
relationship between Dr. Dingle and Gwen Woolridge
is just not merit-based whatsoever.
And
Dr. Dingle -- many witnesses will testify on
the Government's behalf; we've seen the statements;
that Dr. Dingle had many of his meetings as far as
discussing grants and keeping up-to-date with other
10
organizations, keeping up-to-date with other
11
consultants on what was going on, at his yacht club.
12
It had nothing to do with any sort of dating
13
relationship.
14
tarnish Dr. Dingle's character is unnecessary and
15
irrelevant.
16
Implying that it did in order to
We'd ask that all testimony regarding any sort
17
of sexual, physical, dating relationship between
18
Dr. Dingle and these four women be excluded from
19
evidence and that the Government be precluded to
20
only focus on the relevant background of the
21
relationships; non-sexual, non-physical, non-dating;
22
between Dr. Dingle and any witness.
23
24
25
Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT:
All right.
Thank you, Ms. Dalton.
Thank you both.
And we have all of

43
this on the record and Madam Reporter has taken done
all of your oral argument here.
supplement your motions and your responses.
That will
Now, most recently on September the 20th,
Dr. Dingle filed a motion to modify conditions of
release seeking to sell some assets.
And the doctor is required to obtain
permission, of course, of the Court before selling
assets of greater value than $500.
And he seeks
10
leave of Court to sell about 2,000 shares of stock
11
in ComCast, in addition to seeking to sell property
12
that he owns in Savannah, Georgia.
13
The motion provides that he seeks permission so
14
that he may pay legal fees and other expenses
15
associated with trial.
16
has been filed by the Government.
17
Is that right, Mr. Bass?
18
MR. BASS:
I don't believe any response
No, Your Honor.
I spoke with
19
Mr. Genson about this before the hearing today and
20
indicated to him I was gonna advise the Court orally
21
what our position is.
22
with regard to the disposition of that motion, if I
23
could be heard at some point.
24
25
THE COURT:
I think we're in agreement
Why sure.
Come right ahead.
really want to clean everything up here today with

44
the exception of my written rulings on the motions
that are pending.
a very short period of time.
up everything here today so that we don't have to be
scheduling another session prior to our trial.
That's my intent.
And I will have those out within
MR. BASS:
THE COURT:
MR. GENSON:
But I wanted to clean
Fine, Your Honor.

Mr. Genson was going to -We seem to have an agreement,
10
Your Honor.
11
stock, but we are withdrawing our request with
12
regard to the house.
13
agreement we've reached.
The agreement is that we can sell the
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. BASS:
And that's essentially the
Oh.
Yes, Your Honor.
That -- the
16
Government has no objection to selling only those
17
assets necessary to pay legal fees.
18
should be no dissipation of assets beyond what is
19
necessary to pay the legal fees.
20
THE COURT:
All right.
That there
And I take it
21
Mr. Genson is saying that the sale of the stock will
22
be adequate to do that without the necessity of
23
selling the Savannah, Georgia property?
24
25
MR. GENSON:
Yes, Your Honor.
At this
point -- at this point in time Mr. Clark is owed

45
money, we are owed money.
substantial expenses regarding an expert witness
that we've retained, in addition to hotels, lodging,
and whatever.
There's going to be
So we're asking relative to those amounts to
sell the stock now.
needs to be sold, we'll address it separately, Your
Honor.
9
10
THE COURT:
If we need -- if the house
Okay.
That will be fine.
Now, is that agreeable to the Government?
11
MR. BASS:
12
THE COURT:
And Mr. Clark, any problem with
14
MR. CLARK:
No, I don't, Your Honor.
15
THE COURT:
All right.
13
Yes, Your Honor.
that?
Well then, it seems
16
to me that that's a reasonable request.
17
Court does grant permission to sell the ComCast
18
stock.
19
the real estate in Savannah has been withdrawn; is
20
that right?
21
22
23
24
25
And the
However, that sought for the permission of
MR. GENSON:
Yes, Your Honor, we withdrawn
that request.
THE COURT:
Is that your desire,
Dr. Dingle?
Is that your desire, Dr. Dingle?
46
1
2
DR. DINGLE:
Yes.
I'm sorry.
Yes, Your
Honor, it is.
THE COURT:
Okay.
That's fine.
If the
Government sees no problem, I don't either.
seems to me that's pretty good.
So it
Now, since the trial will be down here in
Springfield and not in Chicago, it seems like all of
those other experiences probably would be less down
here than they would be up there.
10
11
MR. GENSON:
I was asking Mr. Bass if he
would allow us to stay at his house, but he --
12
THE COURT:
Well, I know Mr. Bass is very
13
hospitable, but I don't know if we'd go to that
14
extent.
15
I have a couple of spare rooms in my house,
16
Mr. Genson, but I don't know that that would be
17
looked upon --
18
Well, in any event, okay.
19
Now, let's see, I believe that all of the
20
motions -- when we met last month all the motions on
21
behalf of Mrs. Dingle I think were resolved and that
22
there were none pending at this time.
23
MR. CLARK:
No.
24
THE COURT:
Is that correct?
25
MR CLARK:
That's correct, Your Honor.

47
THE COURT:
MR. BASS:
THE COURT:
MR. BASS:
Fine.
Thank you, Mr. Clark.
Your Honor?
Yes.
I don't know whether you intend
to allow the motion just by way of a docket entry,
but if your docket entry could just reflect that the
motion, Mr. Genson's motion for amendment of bond
conditions is allowed with the sale of stock for the
payment of attorneys' fees.
Just so it's clear that
10
the motion -- we are -- the Government is
11
agreeing -- has no objection to the motion to the
12
extent necessary for the payment of legal fees.
13
THE COURT:
Very well.
14
MR. CLARK:
Your Honor, of both Mr. and
15
Mrs. Dingle.
16
MR. BASS:
17
THE COURT:
18
MR. BASS:
19
THE COURT:
20
21
Very well.
Yes.
What?
For both counsel.
Yes, of course.
I'll make sure that is in the
written order as well.
22
MR. BASS:
23
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.

Okay.
Thank you.
Government's agreement
24
to that and for legal fees for both Dr. and
25
Mrs. Dingle.
48
MR GENSON:
I hate to -- I know we've -- I
think legal fees and costs, because of the costs
that are going to be incurred, not just --
THE COURT:
Well, let's use the term legal
costs, I think, which is broader and more inclusive
and I think would be less limiting.
MR. BASS:
THE COURT:
Very good.
Everybody in
agreement then on that terminology?
10
MR. BASS:
11
THE COURT:
12
Fine, Your Honor.
All right.
Yes.
Swell.
Very good.
Well, I should expect to have a
13
ruling on all of the outstanding motions by the end
14
of next week.
15
Now let's see, it appears that some of the
16
pre-trial materials have been filed.
17
Dr. Dingle has filed a witness list, proposed voir
18
dire, and proposed jury instructions.
19
its format, Dr. Dingle's exhibit list was stricken
20
on August the 22nd and he was granted leave to
21
re-file.
22
has been filed.
23
Mr. --
And due to
I don't believe the amended exhibit list
MS. DALTON:
No, Your Honor, it hasn't.
We
24
would ask to the end of business day Friday in order
25
to file.
49
1
2
THE COURT:
You've got to get close to the
mike there.
MS. DALTON:
THE COURT:
MS. DALTON:
There we go.
That's wonderful.
Thank you.
If we could have to the end of
the business day on Friday to file that exhibit
list.
the Government and we just want the opportunity to
go through it and make sure there's not any
We recently received some new discovery from
10
additional items that we want to include on our
11
exhibit list before we file it.
12
13
THE COURT:
Court.
Unless the Government has any --
14
MR. BASS:
15
THE COURT:
16
All right, that's fine with the
No objection.
Very good.
allowed and that is Friday, did you say?
17
MS. DALTON:
18
THE COURT:
Yes, Your Honor.

Close of business Friday.
19
Fine, excellent.
20
amended list, exhibit list.
21
22
Then that leave is
We'll take care of that with your
Now, I don't think that any pre-trial -- yes,

Mr. Genson?
23
MR. GENSON:
24
request.
25
morning of the 20th.
There is one additional
We're going to be picking the jury on the

None of the -- none of the

50
three lawyers here have tried cases -- well, I've
tried cases, many in Springfield, but not for quite
a long time.
And we've talked, and I've told Mr. Bass this,
Mr. Wykoff is present in court, and he has very
kindly volunteered.
jury selection, we would appreciate it.
make that motion.
9
10
THE COURT:
If he could sit with us during

I'd like to
Any problem with that,
Mr. Bass?
11
MR. BASS:
12
THE COURT:
No, Your Honor.

I don't see any either.
I'm
13
well-acquainted with Mr. Wykoff.
14
presence in the back of the courtroom today.
15
will be delighted to have him at defense table for
16
the selection of the jury for the voir dire.
17
MR. GENSON:
18
THE COURT:
I note his
And we
Thank you.
All right.
Now, let me think.
19
I don't think any pre-trial materials have been
20
filed on behalf of Mrs. Dingle.
21
22
Is that correct, Mr. Clark?

MR. CLARK:
I do, Your Honor.
I don't
23
anticipate a witness list, but I would ask Your
24
Honor for about four or five days for any voir dire
25
that I may have in addition to what Mr. Dingle has

51
filed.
five --
And any instruction.
3
4
COURT REPORTER:
Please move to a
microphone.
THE COURT:
See, the microphone, these are
voice activated.
hear once we get to a mike.
8
9
I'd ask for about
And everybody in the courtroom can
MR. CLARK:
Your Honor, I don't anticipate
a witness list, but I would ask Your Honor if I
10
could have five days or at least to next Monday or
11
Tuesday to file any voir dire that I might have in
12
addition to what Mr. Genson has had.
13
one instruction, if I might.
14
THE COURT:
15
Any problem with that,
Mr. Bass?
16
MR. BASS:
17
THE COURT:
18
And perhaps
No, Your Honor.

All right.
Well, Mr. Clark,
that leave is granted.
19
MR. CLARK:
Thank you.
20
THE COURT:
Why don't you -- I'm sure you
21
do constantly here, as a practical matter, confer --
22
the two of you confer, along with Ms. Dalton.
23
Ms. Dalton is going to see to it that we have that
24
list by the close of business or Friday.
25
you confer with her and as much as possible what you

Why don't
52
might wish to select could come in close to the same
time or the first of next week.
MR. CLARK:
I can.
THE COURT:
That would be fine.
MR. CLARK:
And --
THE COURT:
So we don't piecemeal this out
I can do that.
so that we get strung out.
that when we do that when we have multiple
defendants, we end up losing something.
And I've always found
Something
10
falls in between the crack if we don't keep on the
11
same time schedule.
12
MR. CLARK:
13
That's my problem.
Okay, I'll do that.
And you're
right, we do confer quite frequently.
14
THE COURT:
Okay.
15
MR. CLARK:
So we have a good relationship.
16
And we'll do fine.
17
THE COURT:
All right.
18
good relationship here.
19
together for several days.
We'll all have a
As we're going to live
20
MR. CLARK:
Several weeks.
21
THE COURT:
Several weeks I'm afraid.
But
22
that's the nature of the game that we play, is it
23
not?
24
25
MR. CLARK:
And we've all chosen that
route, so we like it.

53
THE COURT:
Well, absolutely.
MR. CLARK:
THE COURT:
Any other line of work is
pretty dull in our estimation, isn't it?
5
6
MR. CLARK:
of work that I would rather do.
7
8
9
I can't think of any other line
THE COURT:
I agree with you.
Aces, spades
and trumps.
Okay.
Now, the docket shows that the
10
Government has filed its exhibit list, proposed jury
11
instructions, statement of the case, and witness
12
list.
13
Right, Mr. Bass?

MR. BASS:
Yes, Your Honor.
And we filed
14
an amended witness list and amended exhibit list
15
today before the hearing.
16
case, jury instructions, and witness and exhibit
17
lists are of record.
18
19
THE COURT:
So the statement of the
Okay, fine.
All right, very good.
Well, I think that
20
bringing us up to snuff.
21
on the motions and those rulings will be out to you
22
just as soon as we get them taken care of.
23
And then I will be ruling
And we're all looking toward the 20th, 9:00 in
24
the morning, in this very courtroom.
25
a venire all ready to go in the jury room back here.
And we'll have

54
1
2
3
4
5
6
Now, have we missed anything or is there

anything we need to bring up?
Mr. Bass, you look moved to take the podium.
MR. BASS:
Your Honor, just to follow-up on
Ms. -- the issue Ms. Dalton raised.

The Government has two witnesses on its witness
list, one of whom is Dr. Whitaker and the other is
Dr. Damon Arnold.
Department of Public Health during the time period
10
11
They were both directors of the
in the indictment.
We've advised the defense; and Ms. Dalton
12
alluded to this; that the Government has entered
13
into proffer or cooperation agreements with both
14
Dr. Arnold and Dr. Whitaker in which they have
15
agreed to provide complete and truthful information
16
to the Government.
17
We did that some time ago.
Dr. Whitaker, following that execution of that
18
agreement, met with the Government and then refused
19
to answer certain questions about his relationship
20
with Ms. Golden.
21
that he was fully cooperating with the Government.
22
He then represented to the media
And he has, through his counsel in the last few
23
months -- through his counsel in the last few months
24
has refused to meet with the Government pursuant to
25
that agreement.
And just recently, through his

55
counsel, advised the Government that he expressly
was refusing to meet with the Government.
And I -- and we just learned today; I wasn't
aware of this before Your Honor took the bench; but
apparently Mr. -- Dr. Whitaker's counsel has
provided an affidavit to counsel for Dr. Dingle, but
not the Government.
8
9
So I raise all that just because I know Your

Honor does not like to be taken by surprise.
10
THE COURT:
11
MR. BASS:
Hm-mm.
And similarly with respect to
12
Dr. Arnold, we entered into an agreement with
13
Dr. Arnold in which he agreed to provide complete
14
and truthful information to the Government.
15
have attempted over the last several weeks on
16
numerous occasions to meet with Dr. Arnold pursuant
17
to that agreement and to date he has refused.
18
And we
So I advised Ms. Dalton and Mr. Genson and
19
Mr. Clark that the Government may be filing a motion
20
with the Court seeking to treat them as hostile
21
witnesses under Rule 611 of the Rules of Evidence.
22
Now, we're not asking for a ruling about that
23
today.
24
And we'll file that -- if we do file it, we will --
25
if we do decide to do that, we will file it and then
It's just something that we may likely do.

56
prior to their testimony or at the time of their
testimony seek to take that issue up with the Court.
So just so Your Honor is aware, since
Ms. Dalton alluded to it, that there is that one
potential pre-trial motion regarding two witnesses
that we may be filing prior to the testimony of
those witnesses.
would have to take up outside the presence of the
jury.
10
So it may be something that we
THE COURT:
Well, thank you, Mr. Bass, for
11
the heads-up.
12
no Judge who likes surprises.
13
arise, as you well know.
14
You're absolutely correct.
I know of
All kinds of problems
We have had them before.
But what I would like to caution everyone here
15
is that I don't want any problems that arise with
16
either of these two directors or former directors of
17
Public Health to cause me any problem with that jury
18
in the box.
19
Now, we're going to take care of this matter;
20
these matters, if it means both of them; we're gonna
21
take care of that separately.
22
to be doing it to cause any problem with this jury.
23
But we're not going
So let's try to get this all looked into and
24
give me a heads-up on all of this.
25
the heads-up, of course.
Everybody gets
But it's been my

57
experience that usually counsel know about these
things before I do.
MR. BASS:
We'll do that, Your Honor.
My
thought was that if -- we would file that motion
before the trial begins.
take that issue up with Your Honor, we could do it
at the end of the day after the jury is excused, or
even if Your Honor wanted to, we could excuse the
jury early one day, one afternoon.
10
11
12
THE COURT:
And then if we needed to
Sure, we'll take care of that.
We'll take care of that.

Very good.
And thank you for the heads-up.
13
And thank you, counsel, for keeping in mind that I
14
don't want any problem with the jury.
15
got to do everything possible to take care of that.
16
Nobody wants to try this case twice.
17
18
MR. BASS:
Now, we've
I know that.
Your Honor, two other
housekeeping matters.
19
THE COURT:
20
MR. BASS:
Sure.
I haven't spoken with Mr. --
21
with counsel about this, but trying cases before
22
Your Honor in this courtroom before, Your Honor is
23
well aware of the -- of some of the practical
24
difficulties.
25
For example, I don't like standing between the

58
jury and the witness.
Honor has allowed the Government -- or allowed
counsel to use one of the lapel microphones and to
stand back to counsel table.
THE COURT:
MR. BASS:
7
8
9
And so in the past, Your
Sure.
I just wanted to raise that
issue with Your Honor -THE COURT:
This is the way we've done it
and we've had to do it because of the configuration
10
of the high tech stuff that's in here.
11
weren't for that, we would have no difficulty.
12
these are not the way I started -- that Mr. Genson
13
and I started to practice and try cases together.
14
We didn't have all this.
15
But we have now.
If it
But
And it speeds things up and
16
it assists the jury immeasurably to have all of this
17
on the screen in front of them.
18
you have in front of you on the monitors and I have
19
up here and the witness has on the witness stand.
20
And so we have to because of the configuration.
The same thing that
21
Now, we even have -- this witness box is on
22
casters and we can actually pull it out further when
23
we need to do so.
24
and it can be turned and will be turned to the jury
25
for addressing the jury both in openings and
And the podium here is on casters

59
closings.
But we have to fiddle with things around
a little.
Madam Clerk knows everything about all
this stuff.
And she will get all that set up.
Yes, Mr. Genson?
MR. GENSON:
I have difficulty in standing.
And the Clerk was very nicely furnished me with a
chair that I can place behind the podium.
THE COURT:
MR. GENSON:
Surely.
Perhaps if I do have a lapel
10
mike I could do some of my examination from here?
11
Because standing is not --
12
THE COURT:
We'll work -- we'll definitely
13
work with you on that so we don't have any -- any
14
more inconvenience than is absolutely necessary or
15
disruption of the flow of the trial.
16
both of those things in mind and in balance.
17
I have to keep
Now, we have these microphones and they're on
18
the tables.
19
use the microphones, because they -- they're sound
20
activated, they pick up everything.
21
important too for Madam Reporter and Madam Clerk.
22
Everything we need to have right into the mikes.
23
Okay?
24
25
And when you're at the table, please
MR. BASS:
And this is
The second administrative
matter, housekeeping matter which Your Honor alluded

60
1
2
3
to.
Judge, much of the evidence in this case is
document based.
THE COURT:
MR. BASS:
Yes.
And as Your Honor knows, unlike
your former courtroom, which has the big screen, we
don't have one of those here.
advise Your Honor that I anticipate that our -- the
assistant for Mr. Long and myself will be
And I just wanted to
10
communicating with Madam Clerk and the court staff
11
about bringing in a large screen and the placement
12
of where we would place that; what's best in the
13
courtroom, what's best viewable for the jury.
14
But we'll obviously confer with Madam Clerk and
15
court staff as to how we could do that.
16
wanted to let Your Honor know that I -- we don't
17
think that it will be best to present all of this
18
document evidence based solely on the TV.
19
may need a larger screen to do that.
20
THE COURT:
21
MR. BASS:
But I just
That we
All right.
And all of the evidence that we
22
will present, or most of it, will be through the
23
computer, which we, of course, will make available,
24
our assistant, to defense counsel for their use of
25
any exhibits as well.

61
1
2
THE COURT:
All right.
Very good.
Well, you -- first of all, you're
gonna have to figure out what piece of equipment you
intend to bring in.
is only a what, a three-by-four, whatever it is, for
the jury.
Because the monitor down here
Now, it seems to normally be adequate for the
jury, the place where it is right now at the end of
the jury box and it's just a turned a little bit.
10
And everybody seems to be able to see it; all of the
11
regular members of the jury plus the two alternates
12
up here.
13
14
15
They seem to be able to -- in our trials.
And then of course we all have the monitors in

front of us.
Now, if you have a bigger piece of equipment, I
16
don't know where you're going to put it other than
17
at the same place down here at the end.
18
Now, the only disadvantage to our system here
19
is that we don't have a viewer for visitors who are
20
in the spectator section of the courtroom.
21
that's the only thing that we don't have.
22
Now,
Now, if you can rig up your monitor down at the
23
end of the jury box just like this one is here, we
24
could move that one over to this far corner facing
25
the spectator section.

62
Would that be feasible, Madam Clerk?
2
3
THE CLERK:
Your Honor, I will check with
our IT staff.
THE COURT:
Good.
That's the safe answer.
And a great one.
we can rig this up so that it's going to fly.
Get Dustin down here and I bet you
MR. BASS:
However, Your Honor, our
thought -- the piece of equipment we're talking
about is just a screen, a portable screen, larger
10
screen.
It's --
11
THE COURT:
12
MR. BASS:
How big?
Five-by-five, six foot by six
13
foot, something like that.
14
that you pull up.
15
THE COURT:
16
MR. BASS:
17
THE COURT:
18
Oh, it's on a tripod?

On a tripod, yes.
Okay.
Then where's the
projector go?
19
20
Like a portable screen
MR. BASS:
The projector is -- the Court
has -- it would be the Court system once we plug in.
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. BASS:
That we have -The computer will plug in.
23
we project that, we'll have to talk with staff
24
about.
25
THE COURT:
All right.
How
I'll let you work

63
1
2
that out, but I think we can work it out.

MR. BASS:
Your Honor, the last thing I
wanted to mention is I know that both the Government
and the defense have filed witness lists.
THE COURT:
MR. BASS:
Yes.
And Your Honor -- rather than
Your Honor reading those names to the jurors, it
might be more efficient to -- for the parties to
submit just one list of witnesses with no -- no
10
format, just a listing of all potential witnesses so
11
that the Court could hand those out during venire,
12
if that's acceptable.
13
14
15
16
17
18
THE COURT:
You're suggesting printed, in
hard copy form?

MR. BASS:
Yes.
We'll provide 40 or 50,
whatever the number of venire would be.

THE COURT:
Any problem with that, counsel
for the defense?
19
MR. GENSON:
20
MR. CLARK:
No, Your Honor.
21
THE COURT:
Very good.
22
very good.
23
alphabetically?
I have no problem, Your Honor.
Then that sounds
Are you going to list them
24
MR. BASS:
25
THE COURT:
We can, Your Honor.

I don't know that I want to

64
call attention to witnesses for the Government
versus witnesses for the defense.
MR. BASS:
No, this would just be a
scrambled list of witnesses.
THE COURT:
MR. BASS:
THE COURT:
10
As
long as it is not --
All right, that's fine.
With no labels.
Good, good.
We'll have no
trouble, that will be fine.

And I would suggest that we have those passed
11
out en masse, so that everybody has got them in
12
advance of calling -- being called to the box.
13
MR. BASS:
14
THE COURT:
15
MR. BASS:
16
17
18
Yes, Your Honor.

Okay.
We'll do that and submit that to
the Clerk before the 20th.

THE COURT:
That will be swell.
Any problem with that, counsel?
19
MR. GENSON:
20
MR. CLARK:
No.
21
THE COURT:
What else do we have for the
22
good of the order basis?
23
MR. BASS:
24
MR. GENSON:
25
No problem, Your Honor.
That's all we have.

Nothing on behalf of
Mr. Dingle, Your Honor.

65
1
2
MR. CLARK:
Mrs. Dingle, Your Honor.
3
4
5
Nothing on behalf of
THE COURT:
counsel.
Fine.
Thank you very much,
All right.
Well, I will have the rulings on the pending
motions then very shortly.
to take right off on the 20th.
MR. GENSON:
THE COURT:
Then we ought to be able

Okay.
Yes, Your Honor.

All right.
Now, if you run
10
into any problems, any difficulties, any
11
insurmountable problems that affect the timing of
12
the trial and the progress of the trial, please let
13
me know in advance.
14
We're a telephone call away.
So if anything comes up that's gonna cause us a
15
glitch, because we've got a lot of people involved
16
here, got a lot of witnesses, we've got a lot of
17
jurors, we've got a lot of folk.
18
any last-minute surprises.
19
So I don't want
And if anything reeks to me that it's a
20
surprise that could be avoided, will not go good.
21
So let's don't fiddle around.
22
want to go through, we want to get the case taken
23
care.
24
25
We are on track, we
Okay?
Good.
Any final questions, problems?
MR. BASS:
No.

66
THE COURT:
very, very much.
you much.
Okay.
Counsel, thank you,
And you'll hear from us.
We'll stand in recess.
(Court was recess in this case.)
Thank
I, KATHY J. SULLIVAN, CSR, RPR, CRR, Official Court
Reporter, certify that the foregoing is a correct
transcript from the record of proceedings in the
above-entitled matter.
10
11
12
13
14
This transcripts contains the
15
digital signature of:
16
17
Kathy J. Sullivan, CSR, RPR, CRR
18
License #084-002768
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Dingle Oct. 1, 2014, Pretrial Transcript

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Dingle Oct. 1, 2014, Pretrial Transcript

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

MR. TIMOTHY A. BASS

FOR DEFENDANT LEON DINGLE:

MR. EDWARD M. GENSON

FOR DEFENDANT KARIN DINGLE:

MR. RONALD J. CLARK

KATHY J. SULLIVAN, CSR, RPR, CRR

KATHY J. SULLIVAN, CSR, RPR, CRR

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Well, it's a lovely day out there today, but I

ever thus, so we're just glad to be here.

This is cause number 12-30098,

entitled United States of America versus Leon

Dingle, Jr., and Karin Dingle.

defendants are present in open court in their own

his counsel of record, Mr. Edward Genson.

see you again, Mr. Genson.

And Mr. Dingle is represented by

And also by Blaire Dalton, I believe.

Good afternoon, Your Honor.

Mr. Clark, nice to see you.

And of course both the

defendants are present in their own proper persons.

The Government is represented by Assistant

United States Attorney Timothy A. Bass, Mr. Bass.

And also by Mr. Eric Long.

Mr. Long, nice to

have you with us.

from the U.S. Postal Department, Inspector, is it

IRS, Mr. Landon Smith.

Then I guess those are all of our

players at the moment.

clear up before we proceed for the final pre-trial

have references to Mr. Dingle and to Dr. Dingle.

And I would like to get that clarified off the head

Now, Mr. Genson, what is the title doctor,

And that is the question of title.

He has a doctorate degree,

Beg your pardon?

And where was

Public health, Your Honor.

Then in that case we may utilize

that title throughout the course of the case and the

trial if that is your desire.

It is, Your Honor.

clearly understood that the jury is going to be made

aware of what that title is and what it represents,

rather than leave them with the impression that he

We understand, Your Honor.

with that, gentlemen?

No, Your Honor.

do that anyway, so...

Well, we'll get that all

cleared out so we don't have any kind of adversarial

We'll just clarify that at the very head

And let me take care of that.

that matter with the jury.

have any other discussion about it.

Yes, Your Honor.

prepare me a short biography for Dr. Dingle.

does not have to be long and elaborate, just a very

short one, so that I will have all of the details