Mars were one of the most mysterious and truly naked bands that ever

existed. And it has been a pleasure to bring you these two live LP's, recorded
during their short trajectory on this planet.
The roots of Mars can be traced to Florida Presbyterian College, a small
liberal arts school in St. Petersburg. Two students who enrolled in the Fall of
1970 were Mark Cunningham and Arto Lindsay. As Mark recalls "l met Arto on
the first day of the school. We ran into each other outside, both looking to
smoke a joint or something like that. We started talking and we both has
these kind of creepy roommates, so we though -- let's put them together and
put us together. We did it and the next day we were roommates." Although
Mark was from Northern New Jersey and Arto's parents were missionaries in
Brazil, they bonded over a shared love of the kind of oddball culture and
music that has long resulted in fast relationships. Arto recalls, "Mark and l
listened to a lot of music together. We didn't play music together right away.
Well, we may have played along with records or something. But there was no
band."
Soon after, the pair began to experiment together musically. Mark says, "l
had been playing since l was a kid. l wasn't exactly trained, but l had a school
band background on trumpet and baritone horn. Then l took up guitar, took a
few guitar lessons and started playing in a garage band. We played covers
and things. That was in '68 or so. l'm not exactly sure when l first picked up
the bass, but down in Florida l was playing everything -- guitar, trumpet,
piano, anything l could grab. lt was a very free music scene. There was a
friend who wasn't part of the school who lived nearby. He'd come and hang
out and he turned us on to all this free jazz. He played piano very free. So we
used to have these big jams. Arto, normally, would recite. He'd do a mixture
of things he'd written and things he'd improvised. There were other beat poet
types around who joined in. lt was kind of a beat scene. We had the use of a
hall in school whenever we wanted. So we'd go in there and jam and people
would come and hang out." These activities went on regularly for their first
year, as Mark studied Theater and Arto focused on Literature.
The following year, pharmacy magnate Jack Eckerd donated a ton of money
to the school. They changed their name Eckerd College, and Connie Berg
matriculated. Many other people who'd be associated with the no wave scene
also ended up at (or hanging around) Eckerd. Gordon Stevenson (Teenage
Jesus), Bobby and Liz Swope (Beirut Slump), Mirielle Cervenka (Teenage Jesus'
manager), as well as people like Mark Pauline (Survival Research Lab). lt was
really pretty free during that period." Mark says. "Which turned out to be only
a moment. ln later years, it turned into a baseball school or something?"
Arto and Mark both graduated in 1974 and decided to move to NYC. They
convinced Connie to join them. "l only went there for two years," Connie says.
"So l was kind of undeclared. l used to eat lunch with Mark Pauline. Mark and
Arto were roommates and they had the music thing sort of going on -- mostly
Mark. He would ring-lead these jams and l think the school was very
suspicious of him. He was the bad influence at the school, but he was totally
Mark, not a lot of words. But l guess that always them curious -- what are the
quiet ones up to?"
1974 was a transitional year for the New York music scene. "The whole New
Wave thing literally getting off the ground," Mark says. "l think the first thing
we saw was Patti Smith's Rimbaud Bash. Then the second or third concert by

the Ramones, and possibly the first one by Television at CBs. lt just went on
from there. l also did some theater workshops with Robert Wilson and
Meredith Monk. But that just wasn't happening compared to the band scene,
so l didn't take it any further. l didn't really know what l wanted to do in
theater. lt had just been a way to get through school. l saw that to do the
type if show's l'd done in Florida would be meaningless in the City,
As a beard for her parents, Connie continued her formal education. "l was
going to NYU and l acutally studied with Spaulding Grey there," she says.
"That was fantastic. He was involved in the Performance Group down on
Wooster Street. Elizabeth LeComte has it now. Spaulding was married to
Elizabeth at that time. And l went to Marymount Manhattan College for a
while, but l really couldn't get the college thing together. l was doing too
many other things.
"lt was just the fact of being in New York, being 19 and casting your net wide.
The music scene was vibrant. Patti Smith at that point was just reading with
Richard Sohl playing piano. Television and the Ramones had started. That was
where the energy was. And also the loft jazz scene. l was going to everything.
Even seeing David Bowie at Radio City. But it's such a different place now. At
that time you could own the streets if you were game enough to try. lt was
certainly very dangerous, but you could have a lot freedom that's not
possible now. But the Lower East Side was so heavy then. l lived on 10th and
B. That was in '75 or '76. lt was right by Tompkins Square Park. and nobody
would go in there if they wanted to come out with their life. The mob dumped
bodies there.
"The first place l lived was in an NYU dorm over on 5th Ave. But l never
stayed there. That was indicative of the direction l was headed. l was
studying, but only because my parents were paying for it. l had to keep the
cover going. l was studying a lot of movement. Performance Art was really
big. There was an overflow from Judson Church. l studied with Patricia Brown
and that choreographer who worked a lot with Robert Wilson. l think it was in
her class that l met Nancy Arlen. And she said, 'You have to meet Sumner
[Crane].' So l met Sumner and then Mark met him. And we started playing
together. Then Nancy joined. They had lofts down on Lower Broadway before
it was Tribeca."
By this point Mark had gotten a job at the very bohemian Eighth Street
Books, where he worked with Niles Jaeger (brother of Angela of the Stare Kits,
and Hilary, who ran the infamous no wave watering holes Stinkys and late
Tier 3). "l went through a couple of months at some straighter place," he
says. "But that's where l ended up. We were living at 10th and B right on the
park. Allen Ginsberg was living upstairs from us.We had a two bedroom place
for $200 a month. lt was super cheap but it was heavy. We didn't last long. lt
was scary but since we lived
there we had to act normal. l actually had more problems in the other
neighborhoods than there. l don't think l ever got mugged in my own
neighborhood. lt was always somewhere else. And we never got our place
ripped off but other people in our building did.
"By the time we met Sumner, l think we were living in Chelsea. Sumner and
Nancy were living on West Broadway. They had lofts on top of each other on
West Broadway. lt was late '75 when we met them. Pretty much right away
we decided to try something. Before this l had just been jamming at home. l

can't remember if l even had a bass yet. But certainly l was playing. And l had
a collection of little instruments l'd started assembling in Florida which l`m
still collecting. l would bring them to the get-togethers. Those were like
workshops that just a bunch of theater people getting together and fooling
around. l used to go to those with the instruments. But we didn't start talking
about having a band until we met Sumner.
"ln those days Sumner was always transforming but he was always really
sweet. He was easy to get along with and didn't seem particularly crazy or
anything. He was just really cool and very easy to work with. lt seemed very
natural to want to do something with him. The first things we did were
acoustic. He would play piano. l had gotten a bass by then so l`m not sure it
was totally acoustic. l must have gotten an amp pretty soon. But Connie
played acoustic when she started. l don't even remember what the guitar was
or what happened to it. But she had an acoustic guitar of somebody's. We
didn't have a drummer. We started jamming on Velvets' songs then going off
on them doing long instrumental sections. lt kind of evolved from there. But
the process took over a year."
Nancy Arlen was an extremely well-known figure on the proto-Tribeca art
scene in those days. Both she and Sumner were visual artists of the first
order and she was a good friend to many of the people she would be central
to the no wave scene. According to Connie, "Sumner had gone to the studio
art school on 8th Street. That's where he met Nancy and they were friends
from that point on. Nancy never let up her career as a painter and a sculptor
and had a lot of success in the '80's. Sumner had forsaken it at the time.
Sumner was always forsaking something -- either forsaking art or forsaking
music or forsaking both. l think he had forsaken visual art at the time. l didn't
even realize he was interested in visual art until he got back into it in the
'90's."
"Nancy lived upstairs in her own place," says Mark. "With her teenage
daughter Bridget, and Sumner shared a place with a photographer named Joe
Nunez, and it was more like Joe's place, so we rehearsed at Nancy's till we
went electric and the neighbors couldn't take it anymore. ln fact we tried to
build a soundproofed room in the middle of her loft but it was badly designed
and never worked."
Arto says, "When we first moved up from Florida we all got a place together. l
actually moved out of the apartment all four of us lived in because l split up
with the girl with whom l moved up here. During that time Mark and Connie
met Sumner and Nancy Arlen. They started to play. At one point they were
thinking of asking me to play drums, but l didn't feel like being a drummer, l
wanted to be a front-man. l did a few jams. l did one with James Chance and
Gordon and maybe Mirielle. Nothing ever came of those but we definitely did
a few rehearsals with that line-up. We did play a song called 'Water Torture.'
Then Mars started to play and l started helping them by carrying their
equipment and stuff like that. l don't know if l was already going out with
Connie by that point or not but definitely they were my closest friends."
"Arto really wanted a band," Mark says. "He wanted to be in Mars at one
point. He thought, well, he could play the drums. But we just didn't that he
would be content in that role. l don't know if we told him or what. But it was
obvious he had to get his own band."
Arto says, "Mars was doing this Roxy/Velvets wall of sound and l thought, well

they're doing that really good. And they're my best friends so l should be
doing something completely different. lt should be sparse and rhythmic,
broken up, fragmented. lt was supposed to be a series of fragments rather
than a slow development which is what they were doing. l was just trying to
give myself a place to start."
"What happened then," says Mark. "And this is really ridiculous, was we put
an ad in the Voice for a drummer. We were so naive. We though any drummer
would jump at the chance to play with us. l don't know what we were
thinking. But the first one that came showed up in a van with a huge drum
set ready to rock out. lt was hilarious. l remember this happening. l don't
remember the actual playing but l remember this happening. And l know
there were at least two or three until we decided we weren't even going to
talk to anybody anymore.
"Then Nancy started playing paper bags. l think she intuited that she could
do it. She showed us by playing paper bags with us. We thought -- oh that's
great. Then l dunno at what point she got her drums. Jody Harris had started
playing with us for a brief period while Sumner was still playing piano.
Somewhere in the middle of that year we met Jody and Donny [Christensen].
Donny was friends with Nancy. She was part of that whole scene and she was
very social so she was the one who would introduce us to people. Jody had
just arrived. He was actually really nice. He could play well and we were still
struggling to make something happen. But our approach intrigued him and
we were having a good time. Then we realized piano would be impossible.
That's when Sumner switched to guitar. Jody was very graceful and just said,
'l don't think you need me.' Or something like that and he bowed out."
"l don't remember having an acoustic," Connie says. "Maybe Mark or Sumner
had one. Sumner started off playing piano so maybe it was all acoustic
because we couldn't afford to buy an amp. But we pretty quickly switched to
Danelectros -- those old Sears guitars. l always liked slide. Jody Harris was
playing with us too before we performed. Sumner and Jody were my guitar
teachers. l think the idea was just tot keep pushing it further and further out.
That's what intrigued me -- how far could you push it out and still have it
called music? lt was kind of curious too because in the press we got later -no matter how unfavorable --no one questioned our capacities to play our
instruments. lt was as though they really thought we knew what we were
doing with our instruments. And l suppose at some point we did have a
certain level of expertise."
Jody says, "l did play inconclusively with Mark and Connie, and Sumner. That
never turned into a band. lt's charitable, although probably less than
accurate, for Connie to credit me as her teacher. But l did get them those
Danelectros they played. They were cool. And they had such a great sound.
They were very strange people. When they were looking for a drummer
they'd put these ads in the Voice -- 'Downtown rock band with bright
prospects seeks drummer.' They had no clue what they were getting into.
These guys would show up in a van from Jersey with triple bass drums and
they'd hide. l had to talk to them. l was the only one who could actually talk
to another human. 'Downtown rock band' said something to them that was
different from the way other people read it."
lt was around this time that they shifted to playing original material instead
of pillaging the Velvets' back catalogue. Mark says, "lt was an organic

process. lt had gone along exactly with what we'd been doing in Florida. lt
was like anybody could play that music. All it took was guts. We stared out
jamming and then looked for things. Sumner was very conceptual and he had
a technical background in terms of music, but did not have much training
either. His father was a music teacher actually. He had been kind of a prodigy
as a kid but had never wanted to study. So he would just shut himself up and
figure out how to play Bartok on his own. But we would just start improvising.
From the improving, Sumner would grab things, he was very good at that.
That's pretty much how we worked from there on. Sometimes he would come
in with a preset idea but that was later. At this point it was like jamming, then
work on an idea from the jamming, then he would come up with lyrics and
we'd take it from there."
With this line-up -- Connie and Sumner on Danelectros, Mark on an old bass
he'd gotten from a friend in Jersey, and Nancy on her newly acquired drum kit
-- the final version of the band solidified. Because they were louder than their
fellow West Broadway denizens they moved their rehearsals to Donny
Christensen's rehearsal space down on Warren Street (next door to where
Lydia Lunch and James Chance were squatting in an empty building).
"By the time we finished that period we had a set," says Mark. "lt was pretty
funny. lt was mixture of naive poppy quirky songs. l don't know what to call it
but you've probably heard it since some of it's on those collections. The
clunkers we never put out. There was one about Saturday night for which l
played guitar and l don't think that will ever be heard."
They also began to prepare for their first gig, an audition night at CBGB in
January 1977. To play an actual gig they realized they'd need a name as
well."
"We had the name by the time we asked for an audition," Mark says.
"Because we asked for that and got it pretty quick."
"We played a lot before our first show," says Connie, "Even when Mars was up
and running we rehearsed a lot. We actually worked at it. lt was not an offthe-cuff idea. And we were together a lot. We were reading the same books.
But it had taken us a year to decide to call the band China. Because we all
had definitive ideas about what it should be named. l always wanted to call it
a proper name like Mick Jagger. Call it something like that and see how we
could get away with it. But l think we were really looking for a name that
meant nothing. China could be a dinner plate or the country. Many things."
One of the people who made it to China's debut performance was Lydia
Lunch. "l remember seeing a poster for China," she says. "Then somehow
going to see their audition at CBs. lt was before l started Teenage Jesus and
they were just the shit. lt was bliss -- insanity. They were the next link after
Suicide. After Suicide was Mars which started the spiral into no wave. Suicide
really occupied their own territory but they were a link between the
traditionalists -- Television, Patti Smith, Richard Hell -- and Mars. Mars were
certainly very influential on me. To me what Mars really defined was elevating
personal insanity to the stage. lt was Connie's guitar sound that made me
want to play guitar and made me realize l could start my own band."
"Once we started playing, we pretty much stayed with the Village scene,"
says Mark. "We like CBGB and Max's and that's mostly where we played. We
played the Artists Space and the Kitchen once each but all other places we
played were rock clubs. There were other ones around like Mothers and there

was one down in Tribeca but they were all clubs. And we played regularly,
maybe once or twice a month."
But they only played a few gigs under the name China. "The reason for their
name change had something to do with Elton John but again we were victims
of our own naivety," says Mark. "An ad came out in NME which of course, we
were all reading at the time. There was a full-page on this band called China. l
think they were former Elton John musicians. So they had a record deal and
they got all this promotion. They lasted a few months l think. But of course as
soon as we saw the ad in NME we decided we were finished as far as that
name was concerned. We could have continued as China but l think it was all
for the best."
ln an issue of NO Magazine there's a claim the band was contacted by Elton
John and told to change their name tout de suite. "Well this could have been
said by Connie or Nancy or someone," says Mark. "They were too much in
interviews. They would say anything."
"Actually l think it was Rick Derringer or someone like that," Connie says, "lt
was just some band that was playing some really big venue. We thought, 'Oh
let's just forget it.'"
"l had a dream," Mark says. "l dreamed l saw a marquee for a theater and it
said, ' Patti Smith and Mars.' That was a little too mystical for Sumner so it
was Nancy that pushed for it more than anybody. My push was that, 'Come
on, we're going from the Red Country to the Red Planet.'"
"And actually Mars is more definitive," Connie says. "China is pretty lame."
Through his job at Eight Street Books Mark met a lot of people. He became
friends with Patti Smith, Richard Hell, Susan Springfield and the like. This
indirectly led to Mars' first recording session.
"Lenny Kaye approached us at a CBGB gig," says Mark "lt way Lenny's idea
for us to do a single for Mer Records and he got Jay Dee Dougherty to
produce it. They were always at CBGB seeing everything. Lenny got
interested. At the time Mer wasn't very active. Then Patti fucked everything
up. She decided she wanted to go on tour and terminate all Mer projects.
Without really consulting us too much they turned it over to Michael"
"l don't remember that Jay Dee session very well," says Mark. "There was a
maximum of two takes of each song. lt was done quickly as well. At that point
we were coming out of the more new wave kinda thing. That was '3E'. Also
the production involved them turning the guitars down. You can hear them
turning the guitars down when the vocals come up. That's something we
would have never done. But we let them do petty much what they wanted.
They convinced us we should do it like that."
One night in '78 Mark's parents came over from Jersey to see them play. "We
were playing a show with Lydia," hey says. "lt was funny. They came with
friends. They were charmed but at the same time probably shocked a bit
too."
Connie recalls the night. "They surprised us at a show at Max's. Teenage Jesus
was playing also, And they really though that Lydia was entertaining. But they
didn't know what to say about Mars. They said, 'Well it's like going to the
Museum of Modern Art.' We were pretty arty. But what really strikes me too is
that nobody sounds really sounds like Mars."
Andy Schwartz (of NY Rocker) recalls seeing them around this time at Max's.
The show would be his first review for the paper. "It's been a long time since

I've seen the text," he says "but I remember the tone of the review was one
of complete mystification. I really was willing to acknowledge in print I had no
idea where this was coming from. I wrote something along the lines of, 'This
sure is a long way from Bo Diddley.' Now I can see it was and it wasn't in most
respects it is a long way from Bo Diddley. Also new to me was the idea of
music that was nominally rock & roll, or at least played in a rock club, that
was in no way uplifting or liberating, and did not make you feel good. I didn't
even know if I wanted to hear that."
But even when the reviews were non-positive critics seemed to give Mars a
modicum of respect. "well we weren't smiling and laughing," says Mark. " But
I was terrified all the time. It wasn't easy on stage. I was concentrating on
what I was doing and trying to make my fingers work. I wasn't thinking of
much else. I suppose I had attitude but I guess it wasn't too defined. Sumner
would get totally into his role as a singer and go out. Connie had her attitude
and her face but she was pretty tough. Nancy was probably the party girl
type to a degree. But the thing about those reviews - the thing about us
being negative and nihilist, it wasn't like that for us ever. We always felt it
was very musical. But this is the thing that people continue to say."
"It may be because there was a lot of campy stuff going on at that time," says
Connie. "Things that were accessible from a certain standpoint because of
that aspect. l think the amount of time we spent working on the material was
obvious in a certain sense. But as far as influences, we were just really
interested in the idea of deconstructing things to see how far you could push
it before it stopped being music. We had the arrogance of being young and
thinking we could destroy everything. That kind of energy really propelled it."
ln December '77 Mars got they're biggest gig yet, opening for the Patti Smith
Group at CBGB Theater, thus fulfilling the dream that Mark had earlier that
year. While both of us (Coley and Moore) have keen recollections of
experiencing Mars live it is Thurston who recalls his first Mars encounter that
evening -- "My friend Harold who went with me to every singer Patti gig was
crying, "Why won't this end? This is not even music!' I was thinking, 'Yeah
you're right. But it's amazing in a way.' And I was wondering -- is that a chick?
The way Connie was singing was so demented. I was kinda fascinated by it.
Then the 7" came out right around that time. I saw it on St. Marks Place,
some guy was selling records on the sidewalk. So l bout it and it blew my
mind cause it was nothing like they were live --it was two actual songs and
they were really good songs."
Remembering that night Mark says, "lt was hilarious. l think we had exactly
one half of the audience booing and the other half cheering. l've got it on
tape. lt's nice especially for audience reaction. But we were disoriented in
terms of sound. We'd never had such an abstract sound coming more from
out of the theater than the amps. I wouldn't say it was a great set but it had
its effect."
"l don't remember any of the audience ever liking u," Connie says. "l really
don't l think the general reaction was that 98% of the people were scratching
their head and 2% of the people were intrigued. But that's what we were
shotting for."
By this point the material Mars was playing and writing had begun to evolve
far away from their poppish origins. "When we went abstract it was definitely
an attempt to go completely away from that kind of new wave song

structure," Mark says. "Even though we had done that in a very minimal
basis, when we started detuning, that was the trigger. lt took it into another
place completely. Cause once we did that we could forget about chords. l
started playing bass more like a percussion instrument. l have to say we were
also influence by Charlemagne Palestine. These kind of half step drone
things. l would do that a lot on the bass l would build them up and work them
percussively like he would do on the piano. We were going to his loft shows
any time he did them. He was friends with Nancy also.
"And l was not into the New York punk scene at all -- that scene was a
rebound from the records them coming off the London scene. The original
New York punkers l didn't like too much either because the rock thing was
boring, but at least they were more original than the Dead Boys and that
whole wave. Also they hated us. Punk magazines never said anything about
Mars. For them no wave didn't exist. But l got super confused when we
started getting called 'post-punk'. l remember hearing the Sex Pistols when
we were already playing. l didn't get it."
By this time bands like DNA, Teenage Jesus & the Jerks, and the Contortions
had all formed. For a time all four of them rehearsed at a loft on Delancery
Street rented by Lydia and her drummer Bradly Field. Robin Crutchfield (DNA)
recalls, "Ikue [Mori] didn't own drum when she joined the band and Nancy
Arlen's drums were there for us to borrow as Mars were rehearsing there too.
So all four of the No New York band rehearsed at Lydia's before Nancy and
Sumner got soundproofing in their loft and moved Mars there."
Brian Eno was hanging around New York at this time producing the Talking
Heads and checking out new happenings. Anya Phillips (who was then
managing the Contortions) and some others got him intrigued by the idea of
putting together a compilation of some of the new bands in the city. The
resulting album would be the epochal Now New York LP. And while it has been
widely reported that the idea for the album grew out of a legendary series of
concerts at the Artists Space in the Spring of 1978, th notion had actually
been percolating for a while.
Still the Artists Space shows were an important meeting. The bands that
played over the five nights were a who's who of the underground scene of
that Spring: Communists, Terminal, Gynecologists, Theoretical Girls, Daily
Life, Tone Death. Contortions, DNA, Mars, Teenage Jesus. Mars' two sets from
May 6 have previously been released as Feeding Tube LP FTR048. Recorded
by D. Perry Brandston they give evidence of the band's primitive power and
the mysterious aura they developed as they began their transition beyond
wasy frasp. The roar of their unknown tongue mastery is a thrilling and murky
thing to behear. And it set the stage for their session with Eno the next
month.
The story of the creation of No New York (and the scene polities surrounding
it) has been told frequently (and to a somewhat exhaustive degree in out
tome No Wave: Post-Punk. Underground New York. 1976-1980). Mark says, "
That Artists Space shows were important for us but it's not true that Eno
discovered us there. l remember Eno being at the CBGBs Theater gig. The
Artists Space shows were in May and we all recorded in June. lt took a long
time for the thing to come out. How could he have discovered all these bands
in May then have had all the meetings about who was in and who was out
and everything? That took months. Eno had Any Phillips there deciding who'd

be on it, She had more that his ear. But we all felt the fewer bands the better
because then we'd each have more space. We all realized this might be our
one chance to have something that would be distributed correctly. And not
even Eno wanted something that would only have one song or two songs a
band. We wanted to be able tot present ourselves. Once we decided that
there was a campaign to limit. But we all felt it should just be those four
bands and that's what i t ended up being. lt was the logical division once it
got to that point. Well how are you going to limit it? He wanted us there so..."
Connie recall, 'lt was a big deal that Eno was around and he was all over the
place. l don't think we specifically knew he was going to be at that Artists
Space concert but he was at every party However that night was sort of
eclipsed by a car wreck l was in. Jim Sclavunos had an old car and Jim and
James and maybe Lydia...there was a whole car full of people and for some
reason l was the designated driver. At 14th Street and 3rd Avenue l was
rearended. l'm not a very good driver, especially in the city, because l have
no depth perception. So l have both daredevil inclination and at the same
time his thing of - What? What? l can't see where l am. So l'm pretty hard to
follow. But it was these tough guys from Jersey. They were all pissed off but
actually by law they were at fault. l just kept driving because the car was
loaded. l got to Gramecry Park and then the cops showed up. James took off
running and l remember everyone else fled in different directions leaving Jim
and me to deal with it. We were supposed to go down to the station and Jim
had to get the registration, lt was probably 2:00 in the morning. By the time
we got to the police station l was completely composed. So that's really my
memory of that night.
"The session with Eno was abit traumatic because he so muc h wanted to
produce the material and we so much wantedit to be unproduced,. There was
all this stuff added to the music and it was our first exposure to someone who
really wanted to be a producer.. lt was awful l didn't like it at all. The tracks
ended up alright but it was very unpleasant. Of course he himself was a very
pleasant guy but it was a battle. But what's really wild about that album is
that we have never made any money from it. A few people asked where the
money was for this record. They said, 'Well it hasn't recouped its expense.'
We said, 'Let's look at the balance sheets.' lt was already making money. We
were totally ripped off for that/"
"We actually did get paid for it." Mark says. "That's the only record Mars ever
got paid for. When it came out we were paid, l think, $800. Not a lot but at
that time it was a good payment considering we hadn't received anything for
the other stuff. Then a year or so later we got another similiar payment. all
the bands did. The curious thing is when the reissue started a few years ago
we all looked for the contracts and nobody could find any, That throws me off
because we had to sign something to receive money. lt doesn't make much
sense. l had all the Mars contracts in one place and it wasn't there. Lydia the
same. Arto didn't know anything either. James l didn't talk to. But we could
never even go to anybody and complain about the fact that it was out there.
We eventually got some royalties but..
"The actual session was smooth for us. We played the four songs like it was a
real et. And it was all first takes. Eno was very pleased, we were too. We
might have done a couple of them over. lt is possible but l like to think it was
all first takes. lt was quick. The mixing was on a different day and that was

little trickier. We all insisted on being there. So we were stopping him from
adding effects. l don't know how he felt at the time but he took it oretty well.
So 'Helen Forsdale', which is the most treated, we had mixed feelings about,
but it's a great mix. He got something very special."
The tracks Mars recorded for the album all sound incredibly boss and show
the band advancing even deeper into the realms of the unknown, But the
scene in New York was mutating as fast as ever with the Mudd Club heralding
a more fashiony dance scene, and some of the bands on No New York found
themselves having a hard time getting any traction in this new environment.
The sever haircuts which presented the No New York constituents as being
one slight step from a mental hospital were now being worn by Mudd Club
and Danceteria habitus as a sort of trendy quirky haute-glamour pose.
Mark says, "We had been playing every month then suddenly, with No New
York in the process of coming out, we couldn't find anything. Max's was
having problems, CBGB was changing. A lot of places hadn't opened yet. No
one wanted to book us. At first we kept rehearsing because we were still
making new songs. But it was frustrating, On one hand we sorta though we'd
made. On the other hand suddenly there were no gigs. l don't think we
rehearsed much as it went on. l think Nancy was losing interest also. There
are a lot of reasons we broke up -- both personal and musical. But it did kind
of make sense. l don't know if Sumner had ideas of where he wanted to go
and felt we -- especially Nancy -- weren't into it. And he stared being a little
wild at that point too. One day he got really angry about something and that
was the end of it. But in general l would stick with the musical reasons for our
demise because they're true. We had gone completely from one end to the
other. You can see from what Sumner did afterwards, that from that point it
was changed. lt didn't make any sense for Mars to change in that direction."
The album you're holding documents the penultimate gig by Mars headlining
Irving Plaza. Marks recalls, "Eno recorded the lrving Plaza gig we did with
Rudolph Grey. He had a fancy cassette recorder. And that was that. There was
no rehearsal for it. Rudolph came on stage and stood there the whole while
with his guitar. l don't know whose idea it was but Sumner loved it." Connie
says, "We were pals with Eno anyway. Just because the lsland session was
awful didn't mean we wouldn't hang out. He's very bright. That was the only
gig Rudolph did with us although he and Sumner were very tight. l think
Rudolph may have played a few rehearsals with us. Was Red Transistor still
around at that time? He might have been bandless around that point. l knew
Rudolph pretty well but he's such a girl chaser that if you're a girl and you
want to know Rudolph you need a chaperon."
Rudolph says, "l remember the first time l heard Mars was over the speakers
upstairs at Max's. lt was '3E' and that really impressed me. Later on l told
Sumner this. lt was not long after the record came out and l told him l though
it was a masterpiece. He really appreciated that. ln fact l got him to write
down the lyrics for me. But l really met Sumner sometime in '78, not sure
when. Lydia was the one who introduced us. l was talking to her outside
Max's one night. She said, ' You should meet Sumner.' She thought we'd get
along. She gave me his address and maybe his phone number. One night l
just went over there. There were comic books lying all over the place. lt was
on E. 4th Street. lt was a reconditioned Chinese laudry. l should have taken
some photos of that. He took baths in a huge sink that had been used for the

laundry.
"When Red Transistor split up l tried to form a band with Jim Sclavunos on
drums and Sumner on guitar. We went into a studio and did some numbers. l
remember listening back to the tape and Sumner's guitar sounds incredible.
Like breaking glass or something. He sang a number, and l sang a number
called 'John's Upstairs, He's Sleeping." But that was it. Mars was nearly
finished by then although l did play at their second to last gig at lrving Plaza. l
was standing there for the whole set. The plan was for me to come on for the
last song which l did. For years later people would come up to me and
mention that appearance. And Eno was there recording it. That was a very
hot day. l remember mentioning that to Eno who was talking to Nancy Arlen."
Following the faily triumphant lrving Plaza gig, Mars recorded an EP for
Charles Ball's Lust/Unlust label, with Arto Lindsay as producer. "l knew Mark
because he worked in the 8th Street Books," recalls Charles. "As far as him
being articulate or anything like that -- no. lt was just that he was very good
friends with Arto. How the session happened, how it was played and how it
happened -- there was a tremendous amount of post-production. l`m so
proud that l took the binaural tracks, which give you all the cues as to where
things occur in audio space, then added false space -- hyper space -- on top
of that with digital delays and reverbs that hadn't existed two years before. lf
you had gone into the studio in 1976 it would have been some kind of
analogue delay line. By 1978 it was a digital delay line and that made a huge
difference.
"Unfortunately l didn't have any kind of rapport with the women in the band.
But to me no wave was work. lt wasn't what l was listening to for inspiration.
But Mars gave you possibilities to do things. That Mars recording was far
better than the master would have led you to believe. That was because
there was suddenly all this potentially there that had never been there before
because of tape saturation. So besides adding six dBs to treble, l feel as
though l was responsible for using new tape saturation limits. But what can
that mean to anybody but a producer? On the other hand what does it mean
to the listener? l should have made a lot more records."
Arto says, "l was called as producer on the Mars record but l remember we
recorded it through a binaural head. And the tapes were real fucked up. The
studio got flooded. When Mark finally put out the reissue, he mastered it off a
cassette. And it sounded a lot better than the recored had when it first came
out. Because the tape was ruined during the flood. That's a great record. l
didn't do anything for years after that as producer. At least that l can
remember."
Soon after the EP was recorded Mars played their final gig on December 10,
1978. Rudolph Grey says, "The first Blue Humans gig was the final Mars gig at
Max's on a bill with DNA. lt was just me and Rashid Bakr on drum." "We just
folded after that Mars gig," Connie says. l still really have no idea why. l think
it was Sumner who wanted it to end at that point. l was like, 'Alright, fine.' But
we may have just exhausted the material. We launched into John Gavanti not
long afterwards. That changed the dynamic, the content and what we were
doing. Sumner was living on E. Street in a Chinese laundry. Now it's a second
hand goods store. l was walking down there one day and l was like -- oh my
god it's open. And l walked in. lt was a former Chinese laundry just with a
toilet and a sink."

"Well, before Gavanti there was Sumner's retreat into his room," Mark says.
"That's where he started with the blues stuff. He was totally obsessed with
Bukka White and Skip James, but his actual playing was more like Bukka.
Then he started developing the Gavanti thing. l don't think he got us involved
until it was pretty much all written."
l remember being at Sumner's one time and he had decided to get rid of his
book shelves," says Jim Sclavunos. "His whole book collection -- which was
amazing -- philosophy, obscure poetry, literature, all this stuff -- was just all
on the floor a carpet of it. And it was just getting crushed under boots. This
was around the same time he stared wearing that white painter's cap around
all the time. And white gloves too. l started to think he was getting a bit of a
Howard Hughes complex."
"Certainly Sumner had a lot of complexes," Connie says. "l'm sure in this day
and age they would have a lot of diagnoses for Sumner's condition and just
the right medicines. He wouldn't have had to do what he did. He could just go
to work or whatever. Sumner was fantastic but had a lot of quirks and
phobias and different things."
While their Lust/Unlust EP would not be released until 1979, Mars were
finished. All of the former members continued to do music except Nancy, who
returned to her sculptures and found fame as the new decade unscrolled.
Sumner recorded the amazing John Gavanti LP. And although his Coffin Full of
Blues cassette has not yet been issued we here in the Negative Glam
production offices are working on it. Connie has recorded in various formats
with Mark Cunningham, Lydia Lunch and solo. We are also hoping to work
with her on realizing a long-lost project in the near future. And Mark
Cunningham, in Spain for that last many years, has been active with Raeo,
Bestia Ferdia and many others.
But Mars continues to haunt the memories of all who saw them. As well they
should. For now and forever. Amen