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natural water ionizer

which brand do you use


which California company do you joining
Im still a big fan of electric water ionizers (http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-w
ater/ionized-water/unbiased-water-ionizer-comparison-video/#comment-3218). Why?
I would be happy to refer you to people in the industry that have earned my trus
t and respect (http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/kangen-water/its-kangen-de
aler-time/#comment-2622).
I would be happy to help you get started with the education process and to direc
t you to people that have earned my trust. (http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-wat
er/kangen-water/enagic-dealers-opportunity/) Yes, please tell me, sir!
If I had to pick the best machine on the market now, I would say it is the Vitev
Maxx ($795) found at http://www.vitev.com as it both cleans the water and makes
the water healthy by adding Calcium and Magnesium at the levels determined by t
he World Health Organization as optimal.
If I was trying to decide if alkaline water was right for me, I would choose the
VYVwater pitcher ($59.95 with an extra filter) found at http://www.vyvwater.com
as it cleans the water to some degree and adds minerals to make the water healt
hy. (http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/kangen-water/its-kangen-dealer-time/
#comment-306634)
Is it your final thought?
Im not a supporter of the Enagic company itself, as it has saddled its dealers wi
th outdated products that are grossly over priced. (http://www.waterfyi.com/alka
line-water/kangen-water/invitation-enagic-dealers/) What do you mean by "outdate
d products"?
Im happy for you and Enagic that you are doing well. I agree that the Enagic SD50
1 is a bargain at $3,980. However, for those that want better value, there are o
ther machines available that will produce the same or better results as the SD50
1 for about 35% of the cost of the SD501. (http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-wate
r/kangen-water/invitation-enagic-dealers/#comment-1963) Wow, what is that machin
e?
I have information that would create enormous public relations damage to a numbe
r of the water ionizer companies in the States... (http://www.waterfyi.com/alkal
ine-water/kangen-water/invitation-enagic-dealers/#comment-1967). May I know your
dirty little information?
What do you think about water filter/purifier like Berkey Water Filter?

====
Instead of being able to offer state-of-the-art products, Kangen dealers are for
ced to sell antiquated equipment that doesnt meet the standards of machines offer
ed by many other companies.
===
So what did the man tell you about the relationship between Enagic & Sanastec? T
hat is a question that has been high on my list for some time as well.
http://www.waterionizerauthority.com/sanastecenagic-whats-the-deal/
===
I find it funny that we are seeing IonLife merged into the IonWays MLM system an
d Tyent moving towards the Evontis MLM system at the same time that the master,
Mr. Oshiro, is moving the other way. I have to admire the man.
I love Enagic dealers because they are passionate, hard working people who are t
ruly interested in helping others. Enagic also provides their dealers with by fa

r the best marketing materials in the industry.


I dont love Enagic machines. The machines are made with 14 year old technology, s
o they are far behind the times in terms of technology and ease of use. In addit
ion, the Enagic machines require chemical additives (a combination of salt and b
leach) to achieve high pH and low pH levels. Another factor that nobody seems to
talk about is the fact that the platinum coating on the Enagic plates erodes fa
st because of the huge amount of power that transfers across the plates. Newer t
echnology in other machines limits the amount of power across the plates to the
exact amount of power needed to achieve the desired results, which means the pla
tinum has a much longer life.
If Enagic dropped the price of the SD501 by $1000 before introducing it to their
MLM system, which they could easily do, it would help. To make the pricing more
competitive, Im sure the dealers would also agree to take less from each level.
Therefore, it would not take much to drive the price down to $2,000 per machine.
Imagine how much more success you would have if the SD501 were $2,000. Unfortun
ately, even at $2,000, the SD501 would be overpriced if Enagic doesnt update and
upgrade their machines.
Please dont get discouraged by what I have to say. The industry needs you and oth
er Enagic dealers to help spread the word. Enagic dealers need to band together
and force Enagic to provide better machines at better prices. If Enagic continue
s to refuse to budge on their pricing and technology, the Enagic brand will not
survive for long.
I recommend that every Enagic dealer find lower cost alternatives to provide for
customers that dont want to pay $4,000 for a machine. There are lots of alternat
ives to choose from that will do a great job for a lot less money, and still pay
out a hefty commission.
The real goal is to educate people and get them drinking the water. All of you E
nagic dealers know what to do.
====
They ALL add a sodium solution to their units, so their machines can produce the
strong acidic water for disinfecting and the strong alkaline water for cleaning
and degreasing.
Do you have the studies like we do at Enagic proving that our strong acidic wate
r can kill bacteria in less than 30 seconds?
Lastly, I was curious if you ever been to Enagics factory in Osaka, Japan?
Have you ever been to Enagics corporate office in Torrance, California? Have you
seen the 5 machines they have in their lobby that run all day long (9 to 5), 6 d
ays a week, so people can come to the office and fill up containers of free wate
r? Most times, there is a line out the door as people wait to get their water.
===
You say you are not aware of Enagic plates eroding. That may be true, but you ha
ve not done enough homework. Pictures of eroded Enagic plates are available if y
ou search for them. Picutures of Enagic plates under 5000 magnification are also
available that show that you can see the titanium through the platinum. Ask the
Enagic owners, or better still, ask the Toyo engineers who make the Enagic mach
ines how long their plates last, and how do they know when to change them. I bel
ieve Enagic offers to replace worn out plates for $600, but they cant tell when t
hey will wear out.
The reason for this is that the source water plays a huge role in the performanc
e of the machines.
People dont care, or shouldnt care about how high or low the pH levels can go and
how low the ORP can go. The important issue should be whether the water works, a
nd obtaining the best value.
Im not here to bash Enagic. In fact, Im grateful for their efforts over the past s
ix years to educate people about the water. However, the evidence simply doesnt s

upport the many Enagic claims that their electrolysis is any better than anyone
elses electrolysis. In fact, the claims are no different than claiming that their
gravity is better than anyone elses gravity. Anyone that studies the machines kn
ows that the output of the machines depends upon the condition of the source wat
er, the amount of time that the water is in contact with the plates, and the amo
unt of power that is run across the plates. When it comes to power and plate qua
ntity and size, many of the other machines have Enagic covered and then some.
===
Its no wonder we have three ISO certifications (one for medical device manufactur
ing ISO 13485) from Det Norske Veritasa reputable and legitimate ISO organization a
who, along with Lloyds of London and the American Bureau of Shipping is one of th
e top three companies in the classification society business.
By the way, it is our factory..not Toyos. If you havent seen pictures, its painted in
the trademark Enagic blue with our company logo on the outside of the building.
If you want to see the pictures, I will gladly send them to you. We manufacture
our own units at our own factory, so please dont mislead peoplestay with the facts.
You should also know that Enagic merged with Toyo Aitex (basically acquired the
m) back in October of 2001.
===
Enagic continues to provide terrible moral and ethical examples that runs though
your entire system. Your dealers believe whatever they are told because they ar
e good people and they know the machines work. They assume that the information
that they are fed by your company must be true because they are honest people wh
o wouldnt intentionally lie to anyone. Your dealers care about helping others and
they just cant bring themselves to face the fact that they are being fed BS by t
he company that they love so much. I have heard more lies and BS out of Enagic d
ealers than all the dealers of all the other companies combined, but I dont hold
the dealers at fault because they dont know any better.
Enagic needs to stop spreading BS to justify the high price of the SD501. You sh
ould know, if you dont already, that there are only a couple of hundred dollars o
f actual parts in an Enagic machine. Of course there has to be a labour componen
t and a manufacturing profit built into the machine, but the machines that leave
the factory are not worth more than $500, and probably a lot less.
I think all of the water ionizers on the market are overpricedsome more than othe
rs. I know what the machines cost, and I promise you that the prices of all the
brands could be lower. As the industry matures, we will see lower prices.
===
For me it started when I ran into a Sanastech web site selling kangen water ioni
zers for half the price
Plate deterioration is why Dr. Hayashi (Father of Water Ionizers) now says ioniz
ed water is dirty water, and he does NOT recommend it.
You cant say Enagic plates never deteriorate because it depends on how the machin
e is used. If you ask Enagic technicians, as I did, if making loads of 2.5 with
highly corrosive salt/chlorine solution will cause the plates to wear faster, th
ey will tell you that they do. The problem with this, as with ALL brands, is how
do you know? How will you know if the plates are worn? Do you test your pH and
ORP regularly? Do you clean frequently gone are the days when we were advised to
clean once a year!
To find out what its worth, just look at Craigs List and E-bay. They are selling S
D501s for about $2K.
especially when they found machines made by Sanastec or Toyo engineers ( the IE
Series). I have no problem with my decision to market options that are far more
affordable and perform equally well. If they dont last as long, OK, but so what?
In 5 years, there will again be new and improved technology in water ionizing th
at the smart marketers will be representing while Enagic faithful keep selling t
hat old wood and wire mousetrap.
===
http://wearewhatweabsorb.com/?page_id=982
===
I know one Enagic 6A who quite honestly told me she doesnt LET her prospects go o

n the web for information (although I dont know how she keeps them from it.) She
said that once they do, she loses them because the find all this negative informat
ion about the company and the pricing.
===
My experience with a local Enagic dealer was about the same; good intentions, pl
enty of confidence and passion, but a little light on the facts.
===
I love Enagic reps. I wish there were more of them because they are by far the b
est source of getting information about the machines out to the public. Enagic r
eps are good people who mean well. They just need unbiased information so that t
hey can make the right decisions for themselves and the people that they serve.
My hope is that every Enagic rep finds their way to this blog at some point, and
that they will take the time to learn without getting mad or defensive. I have
deep respect for their efforts, and I believe that if they are armed with accura
te information, they can be even more effective in helping change the world.
I agree with you that ionized water is as good as it gets unless you are one of
the few people in the world that lives in an area where nature provide perfect w
ater for free.
===
And actually we do give away a gallon of water with the purchase of a one-gallon
container, plus I always offer a free 16 oz cup of water to whoevers interested.
===
We offer other wellness services / devices at our store; people can become membe
rs of our wellness club and use all the devices and have continued access to the
water for $50/month (or $20/week). That membership fee still works out to about
$1.50/gallon if its one person less if they are getting 2-3 gallons at a time. (
They have to purchase more gallon jugs if they need more.)
===
Once a person gets past the learning curve about these machines, it is all about
the performance and value.
I want to push prices down so that more people can afford them. I want companies
to behave with integrity and to present the truth. Neither of my positions ende
ars me to the owners of the water ionizer industry. Someday, they will see the l
ight, but for now, their short term profit goals are driving their agendas. When
they have all lined their pockets with enough gold, I hope they will come to un
derstand that they can really make a difference in the world.
===
the new technology beat Enagic hands down and my personal health began to improv
e again (after 2.5 years drinking 9.5 miracle Kangen water, it was not longer do
ing the job in eliminating my pain and assisting with weight loss.)
I would also like to see companies lighten up on us who are serious about this a
s a full time business and stop treating us like turn-coats if we add another br
and to our stores web or brick and mortar. Sometimes my customers want a specifi
c brand I can certainly sell it to them. Maybe they dont trust new technology fine.
Ill sell them a Sanastec (Enagics parent company) 5 plate machine or an I.E. (mad
e by the original Toyo engineers good machines) or the Chanson. I would even sel
l the smaller Enagic machines they work great! Anyway this is getting long thank
s for the blog!
===
Mary and I have been testing one of the products in our home for a few months an
d we expect to receive another next week. I think that the products could change
the industry because the price point will make the products affordable for ever
yone. These products represent a quantum change from the Tyent EOS KYK Chanson J
upiter Enagic machines. I will let you (and everyone else that follows the blog)
know about the products when Im allowed to do so.
===
Your comment Finally, for every one buyer I sold to, I had at least 100 who coul
dnt possibly afford to invest $4000 on a water ionizer was particularly revealing.
Even at $2,000, I expect that a large percentage of people will still shy away.

That is why Im so excited about the potential of the hydrogen machines as they w
ill be a fraction of the price. Dr. Hayashi may have been right all along.
I also like your comment about the the disposability factor of machines. Our entir
e society now seems to be predicated upon built-in obsolescence and the water io
nizer industry is no different. A perfect example is the Tyent MMP 7070, which w
as introduced in the summer of 2008 and has now been discontinued by Tyent. Two
years! The company offers a lifetime warranty on both parts and labour, and then i
t permanently mothballs a two year old product. What does that tell you?
===
If you are so close to the Torrance HQ, I challenge you to go there and ask if y
ou can visit the part of the office where they are taking machines apart and cle
aning them. Itll gross you out. Plate deterioration is why Dr. Hayashi (Father of
Water Ionizers) now says ionized water is dirty water, and he does NOT recommen
d it.
===
In regards to plates, I wish people would just leave it alone. Both plate system
s work. The Enagic plates can be opened up by the customer, but they never are.
How many Enagic customers do you know that have opened up their machines and tal
ken apart the ionization chamber? I bet the answer is none. In fact, how many En
agic customers send their machine to California to be cleaned once per year as r
ecommended by the company? I bet the answer to that one is none as well.
Plates take a long time to break down the platinum coating unless people are usi
ng the machine alot, and they are using a huge amount of power each tiem (like E
nagic does) when they are ionizing at the extreme ends of the pH range. Even the
n, plates last a long time. My guess is that people will change machines before
they have to change their plates.
===
I checked out your site. I see your company offers pre-filter solutions to peopl
e that sell water ionizers. I believe every man woman and child should be drinki
ng alkaline water. I also believe that everyone should also have a pre-filter sy
stem that removes contaiminants out of the water. It only makes sense to make th
e source water as good as possible before it enters a water ionizer or hydrogen
machine.
http://www.water-filters.net/water-filter-links.html
http://www.thewaterexchange.net/
===
http://kangencomparison.wordpress.com/
===
I find it interesting that you say that 1 out of 3 people cant afford a $4,000 wa
ter ionizer. I have talked to other Enagic dealers who say that they are able to
sell to only 1 out of 100 or perhaps 1 out of 200. If your father can sell to 1
out of 3, he must be incredibly talented.
===
The thickness of the plates is virtually irrelevent other than for the possible
longevity of the plates themselves. Enagic blasts so much power across their pla
tes that their plate would wear out much faster than the plates used in the mode
rn machines. In my opinion, the least amount of power used to get the job done i
s the best solution. That is why I think the EOS machine is the best machine on
the market. Even though the EOS machine has the capability of providing 300 Watt
s of power, I have never been able to get EOS machines to generate more than 120
Watts (and most times only 85 Watts) in my lab unless I hook the machine up to
a reverse osmosis system. The Tyent Turbo on the other hand blasts away at 210 t
o 215 Watts of power every time I use the Turbo mode. Both machines generate app
roximately the same pH and ORP output, but the EOS uses much less power. The Ena
gic blasts along at 280 Watts, which creates a lot of colloidal activity. The En
agic machine was and continues to be made in Japan, where the water is very soft
. Because the water is soft, which means it is lacking in minerals, a water ioni
zer machine needs a lot more power to generate a wide spectrum of pH levels. Unl
ess you live in an area which has very soft water such as the east or west coast
lines of the USA and Canada, the amount of power used by an Enagic machine is t

remendous overkill.
If I had to guess, I would say that the actual cost of an Enagic SD501 coming ou
t of the factory including labor would be in the $400 to $500 range like all of
the other leading machines on the market. If Enagic does spend more on its plate
s, it boggles the mind why they wouldnt update their technology to lower their co
sts without altering the performance.
I do know that a lot of Enagic dealers are not happy with the fact that Sanastec
has encroached on the Enagic turf with a similar product made by the same compa
ny which sells for 40% less money. Enagic dealers will be quick to point out the
differences in the machines, but the Sanastec machine, like many other machines
on the market works.
I dont have any plans to write an article on the subject as I have covered it man
y times. The bottom line is that slotted plates (mesh plates are not really mesh
as they are simply slotted plates set one on top of the other) are supposedly m
ore efficient. The slotted plates dont heat up or twist under normal use. The pla
te controversy has been hugely overblown as part of the marketing strategies of
the various companies. Plate size and configuration play a small role in the per
formance of a machine, but their impact pales in comparison to the condition of
the source water.
===
http://kangencomparison.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/price-comparison-by-lauri-tausc
her/
===
Carol, when I first read Lauries report two years ago I thought it was pretty goo
d, but I was really surprised at some of her claims and the sloppiness of her re
search. She was just parroting what she had been told by others no original inve
stigation. Dr. Parkers report was OK, but biased and full of unsubstantiated opin
ion, and it was based on old ionizer models no longer relevant.
There is one person I know of who digs in and investigates in a scientific manne
r, and thats Arayana Nation. I wish she would share what she has learned here. It
supports the plate quality aspect of Enagic totally.
But honestly, thats irrelevant when source water quality is the primary issue det
ermining results, and source water determines how well these expensive Enagic pl
ates work. Its also irrelevant when we know ALL plates deteriorate over time, esp
ecially when you make a lot of strong water, or if you dont change your internal
filter frequently and get chlorine deteriorating the platinum more quickly. And
consumers have no idea when that happens if they arent monitoring ORP, which requ
ires a quirky unreliable $100+ meter. When it happens, the titanium/titanium all
oy cloud of metal colloid can be detrimental. Actually, the titanium is not even
the issue its the alloy components that can be a problem. Thats where Enagic shin
es with 99.9% pure titanium, but you STILL dont want your plates to wear to the p
oint that titanium is exposed!
===
It is intellectually lazy and dishonest to rely on these so called experts and the
ir poorly disguised marketing pieces designed to justify the high price of the S
D501. Fact is, it is not the best product on the market and is grossly overpriced
.
http://www.ionh2o.biz/
===
I respectfully disagree with you that Enagic is open book. But lets still be frien
ds :)
===
Enagic/Sanastech: They are definitely related. Enagic doesnt deny that. Sanastec
is the parent company, or that they are market in the US. Its like Toyota and Lex
us. The ionizers are not exactly the same .. Sanastech is an older model but its
the same basic technology. The highest priced Sanstec is comparable to the Enagi
c DX but without some upgrades the owner of ThinkAlkaline.com who imports the Sa
nastec is wonderful to talk to and will give you an honest history of the relati

onship. I recommend you contact him and have a chat!


Regarding Laurie Tauschers report/comparison its comprehensive, but not unbiased b
y any means. Shes an Enagic Dealer, so bias is present. And not 100% accurate. Re
ad it Rob Id love your take on where she takes the Enagic story for granted witho
ut checking facts, and how she repeats what Enagic has said about other technolo
gies.
===
Im fairly sure I have Lauries report in the past and it struck me as being biased
as well in regards to incomplete or incorrect information about competitive bran
ds. I will read it again.
I dont really have a problem with someone who is biased as long as they provide g
ood information and they declare their bias. It is no different from being a pro
ud American or a proud Canadian etc. In fact, I really like the way that Enagic
distributors are so loyal to their brand. Passion and conviction are sure sign t
hat someone is out there spreading the word. What I dont like is the bashing of o
ther products or the disseminaton of false statements because it hurts the entir
e industry.
===
1) Laurie is well spoken and passionate about Enagic
2) It appears that Laurie knows very little about the technical side of the work
ings of a water ionizer
3) I very much doubt Laurie has ever taken apart and tested the products of comp
etitors. If Laurie owns a voltage meter and an amperage meter, Im pretty sure tha
t she has never used it to test the competitive machines that she talks about.
4) Lauries facts about the Enagic machine were grossly inaccurate
5) Lauries facts about Tyent and Jupiter machines were grossly inaccurate
6) Laurie made a number of what I expect are indictable claims about the benefit
s of Enagic machines
7) Laurie made a number of slanderous remarks about competitive products which I
suspect will be very difficult to defend
I feel compelled to pass along a copy of Lauries comments to Jay Hare at Ion Ways
and Joe Bocutti at Tyent USA. It will be up to those two gentlemen to decide wh
at to do with the evidence, but if I were them, I would immidiately initiate leg
al proceedings against both Laurie and Enagic. I cant imagine what the two gentle
men will think when they hear Enagics shining star tell God knows how many people
on a conference call that drinking water from Tyent or Jupiter machines is like
ly to make people sick. No wonder the competition hates Enagic so much.
I can see Lauries words landing both Laurie and Enagic in a heap of trouble. Enag
ic is already dealing with a 9 month injuction against it in Japan that was issu
ed by the Japanese Consumer Affairs Agency in Japan for MLM sales infractions. Y
ou can read about this here:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=469087766871&id=77180144556
===
The Enagic Sanastec relationship is one very big reason why I was willing to sta
rt digging and finding other voices that would tell me the truth. I felt I was l
ied to by my upline because I was told the ONLY way I could get this technology wa
s through Enagic. And that Enagic had the exclusive patent on the technology, an
d everything else was a knock off/pretender. The myth promoted was Enagic was th
e original, and I learned that was not truthful.
Sanastec and Enagic are most definitely the same company. We have different mode
ls, options, bells and whistles, and pricing. Look at Sanastec pricing to see th
e true price of an Enagic water ionizer in other words, add $1000 for the sales/
marketing model Enagic USA uses.
===
We need to warn those that are spreading marketing hype a good lesson,or the pro

blem would get worse.Although many distributors on the net are just like Laurie,
caring only for sales and not for the customers.An article supposedly debunking
the myths and facts of Enagic machines can be found easily on the web,and that art
icle was writen by Life Ionizers and Jupiter,and pay a fee to appear at top spot
s on search engines.By the way,Ive heard that 52% of the Enagics profits going bac
k to the distributors,meaning that they make a lot of profit from the machines,d
espite the marketing plan.Assuming its true,this also means that Enagics pricing o
n machines can actually be reduced by about a quarter or so,although it will slo
w the growth of Enagic by 5 to 6 times.I hope the day where companies put custom
ers before personal benefit will come soon.
===
I agree with you 100% that Enagic itself makes a lot of profit on every machine
that is sold. In fact, I have written an article on the topic. Blaming the distr
ibutors for the high price of the Enagic SD501 is ridiculous. I cant confirm your
numbers in regards to the 52% or 5 to 6 times. I can see how reducing the price
would reduce profits by 5 to 6 times, but I cant see how reducing the price woul
d slow growth.
I agree with you 100% that Enagic itself makes a lot of profit on every machine
that is sold. In fact, I have written an article on the topic. Blaming the distr
ibutors for the high price of the Enagic SD501 is ridiculous. I cant confirm your
numbers in regards to the 52% or 5 to 6 times. I can see how reducing the price
would reduce profits by 5 to 6 times, but I cant see how reducing the price woul
d slow growth.
I find it intriguing that one Enagic dealer (Laurie) claims that the cost of the
SD501 is $1,400, while another dealer (you) claim that if the company dropped t
heir price by 1/4 (by $1,000), then the companys earning would be reduced by 5 or
6 times. According to Lauries figures, if the company dropped the price by $1,00
0, then the company would be losing approximately $700 per unit. I assume your n
umbers are a lot more realistic.
Based upon my assumption that the SD501 actually costs about $500 to manufacture
, and the assumption that the MLM team would recieve the same level of compensat
ion ($2,300), then reducing the selling price to $3,000 would result in a profit
of $200 per unit ($700 less $500). My guess is that Enagic currently makes abou
t $1,200 per machine before turning it over to the MLM team ($1,700 less $500).
Therefore, I think your number of a 5 to 6 times reduction in profit is a good e
stimate.
If Enagic reduced their profit from $1,200 per machine to $500 profit, and then
paid out another $1,000 per machine to its MLM team, then the retail price of th
e SD501 could be set at $2,000. If the SD501 were priced at $2,000, then the me t
oo companies like Tyent and Life Ionizers and Chanson wouldnt even be around.
I believe that the time is coming soon when the leaders of the industry will hav
e to put the interests of their customers first. If the existing owners dont do t
he right thing, then people need to support the companies that do look out for t
heir customers.
===
I dont know exactly how much Enagic makes on each machine it sells to its distrib
utors, but it is alot. Chanson makes alot as well. Others like Tyent and Life do
nt make as much, but they still do very well. However, the dealers for the direct
marketers dont make nearly as much as the $2,30 paid out to the Enagic MLM syste
m.
The Alibaba site can be good, but it can also be a scam.
Plate size doesn make a difference, but not nearly as much as people think. The
real factors affecting pH and ORP output are the source water, the length of tim
e that water is in contact with the plates in a water ionizer, and the amount of
power flowing over the plates. Nobody in the water ionizer industry acknowledge
s how important the source water is because they cant control it (except for the

antioxidant filters). Slowing down the water flow will more than make up for sma
ller plates.
I have not read the report by Dr. Peggy Parker but I will. Im almost afraid to re
ad it after being directed by a number of Kangen reps to Laurie Tauschers work be
cause she is looked upon by so many in the Kangen network as an expert. I will r
eport back when I have checked it out.
===
Could you please provide proof for your statement that the SD501 costs $1,400 to
produce.
Everyone knows that Enagic turns their units over to the MLM system at a cost of
$1,700 as it is public information. Please permit me a question. How do yousupp
ose Enagic can make enough money to pay for huge amount of promotional work and
advertising, shipping, staffing, warranty work, office expenses etc. if they onl
y make $300 per unit? Lauerie mentioned a number of $14,000 in her Enagic pep ta
lk, and you suggest a $9,000 figure, so it is confusing to me how and where Enag
ic Dealers get their numbers.
Anybody that believes that the cost to manufacture a SD501 is $1,400 should take
a long hard look at source of the information. When they are at it, maybe they
might want to question some of the other information they heard from that source
.
Since everyone seems to be bringing up the cost of the SD501, I think I will wri
te an article about it early in the new year. If anyone has any concrete informa
tion about actuals costs, I would be grateful if you would share it with us. Eve
ryone in the industry complains about the price of Enagic (including me), so why
dont we get this topic out in the open where everyone, including Enagic Distribu
tors can learn the truth
I expect the entire house of cards (as in misinformation) is going to come down
on Enagic in 2011. If that happens, it will be a tragedy if the Distributors pic
k up their ball and go home. Our society needs the water and the Enagic Distribu
tors seem to be the only way that the word is spreading so far.
===
I know the actual costs of a number of machines from commercial invoices from th
e manufacturers, from quotations from manufacturers, and from parts lists. I wou
ld be absolutely stunned if the Enagic machine cost more than $500. The only pos
sible way that the machine could cost over $500 was if the plates cost $60 each
and I doubt that very much. However, Im eager to hear from anyone that can change
my thinking.
Using a SMPS or a transformer doesnt make any difference when it comes to fractio
nation of the water. Both systems supply power to the plates, with one being ste
ady and the other delivering the power in pulses.
I have to disagree with you that the SD501 is the only device that can fractiona
te water and reduce significant amounts of hydrogen. I have performed the lighte
r test on all the different brands of machine that I have in my lab and they all
produce the same popping sound and make the flame jump around as the hydrogen g
as ignites.
In regards to the other units using cheap materials that are poorer conductors a
nd more prone to failure, I would like to see scientific evidence of that. Based
upon the very large number of units that I sold when I was in the business, and
being in communication with the tech support people of most of the other brands
, I can tell you that I have never seen has seen a plate go bad for any brand an
d the incidence of bad plates in virtually unheard of. I suspect that the techie
s that I talk to havent seen 10 faulty plates out of the 50,000 machines they hav

e serviced over the years.


All the water ionizer produce hexagonal water.
I assume that by medically effective water, you are referring to the Japanese gove
rnment certificaton of Enagics machines. Unless Im mistaken, the certification is
for acidic water only to be used as a disinfectant.
I love your passion for the water. However, I think that you have been educated
by people within the Enagic system as opposed to doing your own unbiased researc
h. The reason that everyone else in the industry knocks Enagic is due to the fal
se information that gets passed around and around and around. The SD501 that I h
ave in my lab works great, but so do the other 10 brands that I have tested.
Please dont get discouraged by my comments. Our society needs your passion and ha
rd work.
===
To me, in my kitchen from my machine, stable, medically effective water is water
which has an ORP of -800mV or even higher that is stable and persists for 56 ho
urs or more in the proper bottle when the EMCO Tech boys can only give me about
1 hour before reverting to a +10mV. It is water that is produced by an ionizer t
hat is manufactured in an ISO 14385 certified facility. Whatever. Nobody else is
getting any actual results with the EMCO Tech ionizers. Nobody is lining up out
side of their distributorships for free water. No world-class surgeons/clinical
professors of surgery/chiefs of surgical endoscopy/ have been using their water
for 35 years and claiming to have a 0% cancer remission rate. No 35-year board-c
ertified vascular surgeon and Harvard Graduate cum laude is endorsing those wate
rs as the best wellness tool hes ever seen. No weight loss gurus (Jilian Michaels
of The Biggest Loser thinks Kangen water is the greatest weight loss tool shes see
n) or UFC fighters or professional athletes or raw foodists or Tao Masters are e
ndorsing the water from Tyent, Jupiter, KYK or Life. There are no mechanical eng
ineers beating down doors to tell the world about those waters. In Japan, when a
prescription for Kangen water is written, it has to come from an Enagic machine
.
A non-profit association of 6600 doctors and surgeons in a country whose health
care system our own doctors in the Journal of the American Medical Association c
all the #1 health care system in the world, focuses on prevention of geriatric dis
ease. This group endorses products which benefit mankind and are the best in the
ir class for bringing true health and aiding in the prevention and treatment of
disease. This is the largest and most prestigious association of doctors in Japa
n, and they select only 1 product per industry to receive their award of Product
Recognition and award of Endorsement Recognition. From a field of more than 30 wate
r ionizers from around the world, this prestigious group of doctors selected Ena
gic to receive both awards every year since 2002.
You are an interesting fellow, Mr. Rob Thomas. I get the feeling that youre antiEnagic and have some sophisticated relationship in and around the EMCO Tech ioni
zers, and that youre feigning interest and impartiality as you gather tidbits of
information to help you in your plight. The EMCO Tech ionizers seem to be very g
ood at letting Enagic sell their machines for them.
===
You have brought out a lot of Enagic marketing material. I have heard it all bef
ore and it is good stuff. It is important information that the public needs to k
now. My only problem with all of the information is that it is always presented
as Enagic or nothing which I dont believe is true. The corporate claims and counter
claims just bring the industry down in my opinion. Alkaline ionized water chang
ed my life for the better 2 1/2 years ago and my improved health has remained to
this day. The water wasnt from an Enagic machine, but it could have been.
All the machines work, so I believe ethics and behavior become really important.
I agree with you that EMCO Tech and all the other brands ride the coat tails of
Enagic and have been doing so for a long time. It is time the other companies di

d some of the heavy lifting. If Enagic would price their product in line with th
e market, Enagic would clean up because of the dedication of their distributors.
I personally dont care which ionizer a person buys as long as people drink the wa
ter.
I have to ask you why it is so important to you to attack EMCO Tech with every c
omment. Wouldnt you rather create a positive environment instead of trying to tea
r someone elses efforts down? I suppose that the same could be said about my Part
2 of the industry review, but I dedicated most of the article and virtually all
of the other articles that I write to building awareness of the importance of t
he industry.
I would ask you to think about your statement about the Kangen wave and the Nava
jo proverb. Do you really think it is me that is viewing the world with blinders
? I hope Enagic does enjoy brilliant success in the future, because that means m
ore people will be drinking the water.
===
If the SD 501 costs $1400 to produce, then Enagic gets the award for the least e
fficient company with the worst understanding of economics, product positioning
and marketing on the planet.
I cannot attest to this personally, but I spoke to the operations manager at Wat
ershed Wellness earlier this year and he has commercial invoices from the import
ation of all water ionizers (publicly available information) and says the SD 501
enters the US at less than $500.
===
My guess is because there are middlemen between manufacture and distribution of
your ionizer. When a company is totally vertically integrated, like Enagic is, a
nd is TRUE OEM (down to the packing material the units ship with), they own the
entire process from R&M to sales. You are not selling machines by direct sales,
are you? To my knowledge, Jupiter isnt far removed from typical marketing structu
re where there are exporters, importers, wholesale resellers and distributors. E
nagic is the exporter, importer, wholesale reseller and I am the distributor. Li
ke Cathy says, Enagics sales and marketing budget is 65% of the cost of the machi
ne, which is relatively low. Rather than pay exporters, importers, wholesale res
ellers, sales outlets, sales staff, etc., they make a machine with a solid margi
n and give the entire sales and marketing budget to the distributors. Who else g
ets a piece of Jupiters sales and marketing %, or will the company not tell you t
hat?
===
Gotta agree with you on this one. According to my research, Enagic purchased the
rights to 1 of 19 Toyo machines in 2001. Mr. Ochiro didnt start selling the mach
ines until September 2004 as he took his time to develop the very successful MLM
system.
===
Enagic SD501 plate area:245 square inches
Tyent MMP 9090 Turbo plate area:315 square inches
===
I find this entire conversation about plates to be a bit overkill. The function
of the plates is to act as a surface where the electricity interacts with the wa
ter. Both platinum and titanium are excellent conductors of electricity. The fun
ction of the platinum is simply to provide a protective coating so that any coll
oids that break off over time will be platinum as opposed to titanium. Colloids
are microscopic particles of a metal that can break away from the metal during e
lectrolysis. The reason colloids are created is due to the fact that a surge of
electricity causes sub-atomic particles to move faster and therefore move furthe
r away. When a particle moves too far away, it can break away. You might want to
think about this in terms of ping pong balls in a case used during a game of bi
ngo. When the air is turned on, the balls start flying around the case. The plat
e makers make the plates out of titanium to keep costs down and then coat the pl

ates by either dipping them in platinum or spray them with platinum.


However, I do believe that the plate issue is far more of a marketing ploy that
it is an issue. In fact, if the machines used less power, the entire platinum co
ating issue would probably be irrelevent.
The cost of materials used in a product is also somewhat irrelevent. The real is
sues are: how well a machine works, and long it works, and if the company provid
es a warranty to replace any faulty parts.
If the water ioinzer companies would focus on the fact that their machines work
and people should be drinking the water, the world would be a better place. The
squabbling between companies only serves to confuse the public.
I dont want to pick on Enagic, but their distributors spend so way way way too mu
ch time trying to differentiate their machine from others in an attempt to justi
fy the massive price difference when they should be focusing on the benefits of
the water. If the Enagic corporation offered its products to its MLM team for $1
,000 and the team charged $500 in commissions, then the public could buy the mac
hines for $1,500 and everybody wins. It that happened, the Enagic dealers would
have to sell a lot more units to make the same amount of money, but they would a
lso be able to attract many more buyers because the machine is more affordable.
The ultimate result would be a lot more people drinking the water.which is my solut
ion!
===
I dont know how the amount or the quality of metal is relevent, or how much a com
pany spends on its plates for that matter as there are far more important factor
s when it comes to producing results. The real issue is whether a machine works.
I have tested 11 different brands in my lab and they all work.
Every machine produces excellent pH and ORP output that is good for our health.
That is what is important to me as opposed to which person or company wins the s
ale.
===
Have you done any testing on Water Revolutions systems? They make alkaline water
WITHOUT electricity, with amazing numbers to show for it. It can easily stand up
to Enagic and any other system, but it sells for as low as $350. There is a rip
ple effect in the energy, measured using kinesiology, in the water created by sy
stems that use electricity. In Water Revolutions water, however, the energy of th
e water is much stronger and has no breaks or ripples. I was just curious if you
have heard of WR or have done any personal tests of them. Im wondering, b/c at s
uch a low price point, it all sounds too good to be true. I want to be sure that
what Im selling truly is as cutting edge and top-of-the-line as the company clai
ms it to be.
===
Thanks for both of your comments about the Revolutionizer. I havent heard much ab
out them lately other than IonWays was seeking an injunction against the company
. I read something from Jay Hare about how IonWays had achieved an important ste
p in shutting down the Revolution people who left IonWays to start up their own
company. Healthy competition is good for the consumer, so I hope that the Revolu
tion MLMers are allowed to continue to spread the word.
I would be careful about making claims such as perfect results in regards to rem
oving contaminants, as there is no such thing. I hope the Revolution people post
indepenedent lab results as it would add to their credibility. Making claims th
at the machine will easily stand up to an Enagic (or any other electric water io
nizer) is just not true in terms of producing the positive benefits of acidic wa
ter, or the speed with which pesticides can be removed from fruits and vegetable
s that have been sprayed. Please dont fall into the old old old trap of the water
ionizer companies that make false claims and accusations. I would recommend tha
t you stick to talking about the wonderful benefits of your affordable natural a
ntioxidant filters.stick to that story and you company should be very successful
===

Using half as much metal thats called smart engineering, John. Reducing the cost
and improving the performance its whats happening globally in technology in case y
ou havent noticed.
As I noted in a comment elsewhere, we liked the approach Vollara used with Direc
t Disk Ionization because less material was used to achieve the desired result.
Thats being environmentally and economically responsible.
I dont know if you can substantiate your claim about the cost of the titanium if
you could, please do. And I do agree that I dont want titanium alloy colloids in
my water nor do I want pure titanium in my water, and I have seen worn Enagic pl
ates. Again, I said this elsewhere, how does the consumer know when a plate need
s to be replaced? What factors accelerate plate deterioration? Does Enagic infor
m their customers about how to tell? Do they nudge them to do the proper cleanin
g? Filter change? These are all legitimate questions that are far more important
than if they use 99% pure expensive titanium. In my experience as an inquisitiv
e, persistent, active, informed customer, they were of little help. God help tho
se without persistence or some level of education about the technology and what
to ask.
===
Once again, I have to respectfully disagree when you start making negative claim
s about other brands. I sold and serviced a lot of machines when I was in the bu
siness, and I speak to many of the service people in the industry for a number o
f different brands. From my own personal experiences and from the experiences of
people that I talk to that I trust (the techies, not the salespeople), I can te
ll you with the utmost in sincerity that the machines all work. The machines all
have good warranty programs.
What Im saying takes nothing away from Enagics products, as they are great as well
. It just bugs me when people start bashing other products when they havent teste
d them or experienced them for themselves. Anyone can play the I heard a story gam
e. If anyone on this blog has a legitimate complaint about their personal machin
e, Im willing to listen, and maybe I can help out by making a call for them. But,
lets not be bashing each other on heresay.
===
gabe hunninghake
http://www.wearewhatweabsorb.com/
iesolutions@ymail.com
Since you market the Enagic machines, would you mind getting a parts list and ma
nufacturing cost breakdown from corporate and emailing it to me? Since you said
they are an open book it should be no problem. Ill scan it and post it on my webs
ite to once and for all stop all the fighting about inflated costs.
===
I should have thought of that. You are so smart :)
If Enagic does present the information, which I doubt, it will definitely spark
a lively debatewhich is the point of all of this
===
I hope everyone understands the following:
1) we all have the same jobto educate others about the water
2) the market is far bigger than anyone can supply, so think ABUNDANCE instead o
f SCARCITY
3) use this forum to share and learn
4) focus on building awareness, not tearing each other down
===
To my knowledge, these machines are all essentially the same since they are prod
uced by the same manufacturer. If they all have the same components, just a diff
erent branding, I dont think Tyent would be able to get away with a far smaller m
arkup than Life. Theyre essentially the same machine inside.

===
1. Dr. Parker has cut ties with Enagic. She wasnt seen as unbiased, which she ind
icated was interfering with her real goals (see http://www.kangenwtr.com/ ). Im n
ot sure her report will be updated. Which is sad, because from what Ive read, it ne
eds to be. She has a very incorrect understanding of the stomach and our digesti
ve process. At least according to Dr. Robert Young.
2. Im
h have
at the
ay are

not defending Tyent and Lifebut if you do a Better Business search, they eac
a better rating than Enagic. I know that doesnt mean everything, but look
complaint reports. There is a lot of similarities. None of which by the w
there product caused me to get sick.

3. JohnI learned a few things from my MLM days. First of which is everything we h
ear within those circles is not always true. You have to take it with a grain of
salt and understand that those preaching on the conference calls are often more
passion than fact. MLMs run on motivation. Every MLM company believes their pro
duct is the best. It doesnt matter whether its vitamins, travel, juice or water. B
ecause face itwe all want the pride that comes with being associated with the #1
whateverand justification for why we buy their product.
Your passion for water has to supersede your passion for the SD-501.
#4. I have a solution for 98% of the argument here. Get rid of plates, power sup
plies, cleaning solutions, maintenance, electricity and source water problems. I
was skeptical of the new antioxidant filters because the science was foreign to
what I had learned about ionized water previously. That is until I tried one. F
or the last 2 months its the only water Ive consumed. No return of previous sympto
ms and great pH and stable ORPs. Ive given out a ton of water and sold numerous f
ilters as well. It works and each person has been very pleased.
Just think about the impact we could have on this country if we stopped pissing
on each other about plate size and whos ionizer is better. Change the story thats
being told on the web that we are a bunch of snake oil salesmen who sell expensi
ve things that dont work.
Just give people we love the water. Use their understanding of the need for filt
ered water and give them a clean, effective and affordable solution to their pro
blem. It really isnt that hard to do anymore.
===
Hi Gabe:
I think your comments are the best I have ever read on this site or any other si
te.
If you have read Dr. Parkers report, I would appreciate your comments. You have p
roven to be an extremely trustworthy and competent commentator on this site. Im s
wamped right now and just wont have time to get to it next week. Im working on my
year end review articles and the Enagic and Tyent issues.
I will be happy when everyone that says they care about helping others start foc
using on helping others instead of resorting to school yard bullying tactics .
===
The good news is that I have never felt better. Im training and riding one or two
hours most days and I have more energy that I did 15 years ago. Being pain free
is a gift that everyone takes for granted until its gone. Becoming pain free aft
er living in pain for years is.there are really no words to describe it.
===
I started drinking ionized water 5 years ago. The water changed my life dramatic
ally for the better. The acid reflux that I had been battling for 15 years (abou
t 7 of those years on medication) disappeared in a week. My severe osteoarthris

that I had been battling with meds for a couple of years disappeared in a month.
Even my allergy to ragweed which caused me flu like symptoms every fall disappe
ared.
In summary, I suffered from acid reflux for about 15 and had been on Pantoloc to
control it for 7 or 8 years. The problem went away within a week of being on th
e water. I also suffered from very severe arthritis for a couple of years and ha
d been on Arthrtec for 1 1/2 years. My arthritis went away within a month. I als
o suffered from ragweed alergy from the middle of August until the first frost e
ach year and was taking the prescription needles plus decongestants without much
success. The water made the allergy go away. I have been on the water for 2 1/2
years and life is good.
===
I have an SD501. In 6 months, arthritic, sports-injured knees, chronic sinus inf
ections, allergies, depression, sleeplessness, low energy, etc. all totally evap
orated. I was chubby from the time I was a child. I always had to work harder th
an everybody else to lose weight. Dieting and exercise only seemed to temporaril
y take the pounds off. After less than 6 months on Kangen water, I lost over 30
pounds. For the first time in my life, I had to WORK to gain weight this Winter.
I ate everything I could this Winter. Extra meals, extra portions, extra desser
ts, wine, lack of exercise and all of the other things that would have caused me
to gain dozens and dozens of pounds in the past only amounted to a paltry 11 po
unds this Winter. Another guy who got a machine from me lost 15 pounds during hi
s 30-day trial without changing his diet whatsoever. I have watched strangers liv
es change before my very eyes in 30 days of drinking water 24-48 hours old befor
e they got their machine. The SD501 is the biggest blessings I could ever have a
sked for in my life. I know that Ill have unlimited amounts of water for 30 years
or more because the SD501 is built to last that long.
===
Hi Indigo:
Great post! This is what the blog should be about.
I too started out with water from an Enagic SD501, and the water from the machin
e convinced a total skeptic like me that buying a machine was a necessity, not a
luxury. Too bad for Enagic that the price of their machine was so high that I p
urchased a different brand. My wife asked me how can you be so cheap when this is
about our health?. Fortunately, the other machine produced the same results and
I have not taken one pill from any of my prescriptions in the past 2 1/2 years.
===
http://www.ionh2o.biz/
gavin dickinson
Now we come to Dr Peggy Parker, and her unscientific and baseless claim that the
tourmaline in our Biostone filters is leaching poisonous metals into the water,
and could harm or kill people. See the previous points on water tests for your
refutation of this canard. I might also add that the tourmaline in the Biostone
filters is encased in ceramic beads, and never comes in contact with the water,
but even if it did, tourmaline has a hardness rating that is harder than Titaniu
m, and it would not leach anything anyway. Dr. Parker SEEMS to know what she is
talking about, like Laurie Tauscher, but doesnt have a clue in many instances, yo
u have to conclude she either is repeating what someone else told her and she be
lieves is true, or she is intentionally lying. I dont know which. One thing is tr
ue; she is saying things that are libelous and untrue. Heres a bit more on the to
urmaline canard for you:
Recently some Enagic or Kangen reps have been attacking the Biostone filter. They
are claiming that because the Biostone contains tourmaline and one of the buildi
ng blocks of tourmaline is aluminum, that ipso facto the Biostone filter release
s aluminum into the drinking water. Nothing could be further from the truth, but
then again, some Enagic reps do not always present the facts accurately or corre
ctly especially when it comes to Jupiter.

Below is a lab report on the Biostone filter. This lab report was commissioned a
nd paid for independently (see the information under client).
(email me for the report, gavin@gavindickinson.com)
Tourmaline is technically classified in the mineral group as a semi-precious gem
stone of the silicate family. The term silicate is used to denote types of rock
that consist predominantly of silicate minerals.
Two of the main building blocks of tourmaline are aluminum and boron which are b
onded to form a trigonal crystal system which occurs as long, prismatic and colu
mnar crystals.
This bonding effect which creates crystalline Tourmaline results in a very hard
material with a hardness rating of 7-7.5 on the Mohs scale. To put its hardness
into perspective, iron is a 4Mohs, and titanium is a 6Mohs tourmaline being cons
iderably harder than either. It is so hard in fact it retains its properties und
er enormous pressure and up to 600 degrees C.
The tourmaline in the Biostone filter is put into a ceramic bead form. Ceramic i
s completely non reactive and non leaching. Many water filters employ ceramic me
dia.
So we can say for certain given the structure and hardness of tourmaline, the fa
ct it is in ceramic and the attached test results, that no aluminum is released
in to the water.
Further we can show with certainty that the Biostone filter actually reduces Alu
minum so significantly it is below the detectable levels.
So why is tourmaline in the Biostone? Tourmaline has the unique property of emit
ting a natural form of FIR or Far Infra Red energy. The prefix infra means be
low and refers to the wavelengths that are just below the red end of the visibl
e spectrum, hence infra-red . FIR produces a form of radiant heat which is simp
ly a form of energy that heats an object directly, without having to heat the su
rrounding air. The radiant properties of Infra-red occupies the portion of the e
lectromagnetic spectrum between visible light and radio waves. There are many, m
any health products that employ FIR, including many water products. Water can ab
sorb infrared rays from an external source. This phenomenon is called "resonant
absorption." This absorption of the electromagnetic frequencies of FIR has an im
mediate and unique effect on the water, energizing the water, reducing surface t
ension and conditioning it prior to ionization.
Dr Parker makes several other ludicrous, libelous, misleading and untrue stateme
nts in her 17 page (now updated to 20 pages) article, one that comes to mind is
that our optional .01 micron filter takes out the dissolved minerals, making our
machine unable to ionize the water. I am not a scientist, but I know enough to
know the dissolved minerals are NOT taken out by .01 filtration TDS (total dissol
ved solids) can only be removed through distillation or reverse osmosis, as far
as I know
And we sell lots of machines with this filter, and lots of replacement .01 filte
rs. Thousands and thousands in fact. This is again, an example of her intentiona
lly lying, or her pretending to know something she doesnt, and saying it anyway. I
dont know her, but I bet she makes a LOT of money with her Enagic business, like
Dr. Carpenter and Kevin Porter
Are you starting to see a pattern here, perhaps?
Recent test data from testing the water from our machines is available from comp
any headquarters in Reno, NV. Tests were conducted at the University of Nevada R
eno and are all certified and accurate. No presence of titanium or anything of a
harmful nature has EVER been found in the water, and none has ever been found i
n the water of ANY machine from our factory. New or old. In almost 30 years. Tes
t data from prior tests is quite public information as well, and available upon
request. Again, no harmful substances of any kind found in our water, in almost
30 years.
Are you starting to see the difference between us and them? I hope so.

We deal in facts and science, not innuendo and baseless claims We have INTEGRITY
===
http://www.alkastreamusa.com/
I agree with you Gabe! Cut through the BS and take a serious look at the nonelec
tric options. And thanks Rob for all the tolerance of differing opinions here. I
ts the best Ive seen!
===
http://xeblogger.blogspot.com/
John, You ask what has my water ionizer done to change my life?
First off, I started with an SD501 (that I spent my rent money for the deposit o
n) 3.5 years ago. I had fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue, and Seasonal Depressio
n (SAD) plus borderline diabetes, thyroid, adrenal fatigue and so on. The Enagic
changed my life, no doubt. But it wasnt a cure-all. I needed other herbal, enzym
e, probiotic and hormonal adjustments to get really well. And when I moved from
well water with 300+TDS to water with 30 TDS but highly alkaline (8.5+), the Ena
gic did not give me the same results. And it didnt work for the people I sold it
to who happened to change to a similar low mineral content water. Sometimes all
we would get is -80 ORP. And yes, we called corporate, and got nowhere with tech
support JapanEngrish. We did spend about $1000 on different prefilters; nothing
made a difference. And my symptoms returned.
I say this to emphasize that Rob is right when he says source water quality is 9
0% of the variability in how well a water ionizer works.
On the other hand, we gave my son-in-law a lowly SUNUS unit. He was diabetic, 45
0+ lbs, in a wheelchair with neuropathy, fibromyalgia, depression, high blood pr
essure etc. He lost 55+ lbs in 3 months, got out of the wheel chair, and reduced
or eliminated many meds. Go figure. A $1300 SUNUS does that? But Enagic leaders
hip doesnt really encourage the field to tell people about it. Wonder why?
Now, for the rest of the story. This spring we tested a Vollara unit as we were
intrigued with the cutting edge Direct Disk Ionization technology one disk, no m
embranes. It blew away the Enagic ON OUR SOURCE WATER (and I freely admit it per
forms differently in other situations.) Got better ORP, better stability, better
taste, and better results health-wise. (Symptoms that had returned, improved.)
Ditto for every member of my local team they all sold their SD 501s and bought a
Vollara. Now, did it do the strong acid/alkaline as well? H* NO! If thats what y
ou want an ionizer for, then spend the money on a SD 501 or buy the Sanastech Al
phaKing that is equivalent to the Enagic DX for $1000 less. But it did and OK job
and I understand that we may be able to implement a solution to make it work bet
ter. And 99% of MY prospects just want good drinking water.
Now, the final chapter. Been drinking the alkaStream water and I am again blown
away with the results. My symptoms are continuing to improve I am losing weight
again. I suspect that the presence of available excess H (created through the ma
gnesium-catalyzed reaction as described by Hayashi) is the reason none of the co
nventional ionizers produce stable free hydrogen. The fact that they produce it
is irrelevant if you have to drink the water as it comes out of the hose. Or may
be its because I am not consuming clouds of colloidal nano metals. Maybe MY body
doesnt like that. Who knows.
The moral of my story? Buy what you can afford, and know that if you get a conve
ntional ionizer you MUST have prefilters for it to work effectively. (And clean
your machine, and change your filters and and.. and) Anyone who can afford a smar
t phone and service can afford a non-electric ionizer. No brainer.
Get healthy and your life and bank balance improves its that simple. If I can buy
10 alkaStreams for the price of one SD501 and GIVE them to my family who have r
esisted the 4K, 2K, 1K price point why wouldnt I?

===
Dr. Mu Shik Jhon author of The Water Puzzle and the Hexagonal Key is the person
responsible for research on hexagonal water. Enagic will not allow dealers/distr
ibutors to use that term because they cannot prove their water is hexagonal and
because someone has a trademark on it. I know, because we had to take it out of
all of our publications 2.5 years ago. I also know that even the term microclust
ered is risky to use because it can only be inferred by Hz changes using an elec
tron microscope, and no one can PROVE their brand of ionized water is more hexag
onal, more microclustered, or whatever, than anyone elses.
Is ionizing water the only way to get hexagonal water? NO. Hexagonal structure i
s the natural form of water discovery by researchers studying Hunza water and mi
nerals like silica and magnesium help create that molecular structure. (You can
find all this in publications now available at http://www.eions.net) According t
o Dr. Jhon, you can recreate that structure with either magnetics or electricty
(ionization/electrolysis) and he actually endorsed/preferred magnetics. I believ
e he was a consultant to Nikken several years ago. [He is deceased now, so I can
t ask him.]
So this is another red herring a false distinction/differentiation that cannot b
e proven one way or another. Again, I love my SD 501. And I love what I am findi
ng with alkaStream. To me, its a more natural way to produce natures perfect water
alkaline minerals and hydroxyl ions, free active hydrogen, antioxidant, and res
tructured. Hunza water wasnt made with electrolysis ;-).
===
Hydrogen sticks actually end up costing more than the SD501 over the 15 year min
imum life span of the SD501. Just looking at Living Water USA, my cost is $84.90
per stick ($79.95 + $4.95 shipping). Based on my reading and the amounts of wat
er I consume to maintain therapeutic hydration, I need to replace my stick every
6 months. That means that in 15 years, I will spend over $2500 on hydrogen stic
ks JUST FOR ME! If I have a partner, thats almost $5000. If I have 2 children, th
ats almost $10,200. Its just not cost effective or sustainable. This only creates
water for the owner to drink. My SD501 lets me make unlimited amounts of water to
give away to everybody whos willing to drink it. There isnt another ionizer out t
here that can make these amounts of water and last for more than a year or two.
At the end of 15 years, Enagic will recondition their plates to like-new conditi
on for just $40. Do any of the other ionizers out there even offer this? Seems t
o me that most of the other ionizers distributors have taken their sites down and
changed their numbers LONG before their clients warranties are even expired.
===
But as I understand it. it is not fair to compare a hydrogen stick with an ionize
r machine.
The stick offers the opportunity to take a bottle of ionized water with you, whe
re the water from any household machine fails to keep the good quality of a long
er period of time.
===
Comparing an ionizer with a hydrogen stick is apples to oranges. But in my opini
on, so is the comparison between antioxidant filters with electric ionizers.
Ionizers dont filter very well and often require a pre-filter costing several hun
dred $$ more. Ionizers produce water ranging from 2.5 12ish. Ionizers need elect
ricity and waste water. Ionizers have to be religiously cleaned and do wear out
over time. Faster without a pre-filter. Their performance varies over time and s
ource water. They are larger and contain electronic screens, pumps and power sup
plies. Each of which has to be considered in a warranty. But they create water f
aster and are great for larger environments. Locker rooms, health clubs, etc.
Sticks offer zero filtration. As Indigo says, they are not cost effective. Espec
ially for those with chronic health issues, because the manufacturer recommends
2-3 sticks per person for them. But they do create quality pH, ORP and free hydr

ogen. They are good to travel with and drop in a bottle of water from the airpor
t, hotel, etc.
Antioxidant filters are dramatically different. I had a client ask me this morni
ng, so this is really just a high quality filter with the health benefits added o
n? In essence yes. You cant find a better filter for the price. For years, many io
nizer dealers have pushed ionization over filtration. Tap is fineand look, this ha
s a filter insideor 2. Filter dealers on the other hand knock ionizers because mos
t dont start with clean water. They also have the upper hand because everyone kno
ws clean is most important and educating on alkalinity/ionization is an uphill b
attle. How many people do you see calling filters a scam?
In my humble opinion, the Antioxidant filters are the future of ionization AND f
iltration. $399 for clean, pure, 9.5pH water with ORPs ranging between -200 and
-400. Zero fluoride, pesticides, VOCs, THMs, Chloramines, etc. Small enough to t
oss in the carrying bag they come with and into the luggage or trunk. No changes
in performance despite the source water. Swap out for a new filter at the 12-mo
nth, 1300 gallon point (or 6-months if you want to maintain fluoride free) for $
99 and you have a brand new machine. Ionizer filters cost that much or more. BTWDan
is correct, thats plenty for a family of 4 for a year.
We can keep arguing about whose plates are better, who has the best celebrity en
dorsement and keep recruiting new dealers because of how much $$$ they can makeor
we can stop pissing around and actually help people.
===
And until the Alkastream filter (or any of the other ionizers for that matter) i
s being widely used in hospital treatment settings of world-leading health care
systems, with endorsements from 35-year board-certified vascular surgeons, world
-class gastroenterologists with over 35 years of experience (and 0% cancer remis
sion rates), world-famous weight loss experts, professional athletes and teams l
ike the New York Yankees, tai chi masters, raw foodists, nutritionists, fitness
gurus and other assorted health care professionals, etc., etc., I think Ill stick
with my lifetime investment in the SD501!
===
http://exenagic.blogspot.com/
Rob, this is a good example of the passion, and misinformation, that abounds amo
ng Enagic distributors. I love them, they are my friends yet today, but they dont
check their facts. They just repeat what they are told.
Indigo,, when I was an Enagic dealer, I was never able to confirm that the Enagi
c SD501 or any other unit was actually used in hospitals. In fact, I was told by
a corporate person that they used commercial ionizers in the hospitals, and the
home water ioniezr the DX was developed due to physician demand for their patie
nts so they didnt have to line up for water. The SD 501 was developed for the US
market and the compensation plan implemented here.
I dont know what your definition of widely is, but 35 hospitals in Japan is not wide
to me. Its signficant, but its still a small slice of the professional medical/hos
pital presence world-wide.
Your comments about endorsements are a red herring. The world class vascular sur
geon and gastroenterologist are paid consultants/advisors to Enagic. In fact, Dr
Shinya was using the Sanastec model until he got some recent accomodation from
Enagic and when contacted in previous years would NOT endorse the SD501 or Enagi
c because he could get Sanastec for less. And if you spend any time on the inter
net you will find weight loss experts, fitness gurus, health care professionals
etc. endorsing other ionizers, and yes, they will be talking about alkaStream re
al soon, Im sure. Alkastream has the advantage of using the magnesium catalyst me
thod endorsed by Dr Hayashi the Father of Water Ionizers who actually does not and
has not for a decade recommended ANY water ionizer and actually sued Enagic for

implying that he endorsed kangen water ;-). So Im confident that alkaStream wate
r will have the same effect. It has for me ;-).
By the way the weight loss expert, Jillian Michaels, also endorses Brita. She men
tioned kangen water once in an interview if you tried to pin her down, I bet her
agent would not allow her to talk about it today because today she gets PAID for
endorsements. And be careful about saying the New York Yankees endorse Enagic t
hey sent a cease and desist letter to the person who put out the news release ab
out Shan Stratton that implied that they did endorse kangen water.
===
Their are plenty of other endorsements out there. Go look at Lifes page or the Ch
anson/Dr. Young relationship. Vollara machines are in MLB locker rooms as well.
Celebrities have it greatcompanies give them free stuff for a picture/endorsement
.
I think you also miss the point. No one is telling you to trade in your SD-501 f
or an alkaStream. The water you drink is fine, maybe a little dirty unless you h
ave a great pre-filter, but Im sure it performs great on the pH/ORP scales. Fullspectrum ionizers still have their place. I dont think Id sell an alkaStream to a
hospital or MLB team.
But the other 99% of the worldyou betcha.
Which is what ionizer fundamentalists dont understand and will therefore cause th
em to miss the train thats pulling out of the station. The industry is about to c
hange radically.
So let me ask you. What is your ratio of water introductions to sales? How many
people cant afford one? What do you do for them? Is it right to not tell them the
re are other solutions out there, even if we dont think its as good as the best, w
hen were dealing with peoples health?
===
In my case when I find something that works works well has credibility I tend to
stick with it the cost is irrelevent ,, You said it yourself Enagic is among th
e best of the Best , i think on another post you placed them 2nd under AlksStrea
m which bring me back to what I would suggest is your motive I am also Ok with y
our motive to market the Alka Stream Filters it is a known fact if you can take
a Great Idea and make it more affordable with the same end result for less money
you will make a fortune
===
I do have an agenda. My agenda is to get a water machine in every household in C
anada and the USA and Australia, and any of the other 138 countries where people
are following my blog. It is costing me hundreds of thousands of dollars per ye
ar in lost income to pursue my cause, so Im doing what I think has to be done to
make my dream come true. What I think needs to be done is to make the machines a
vailable for lower prices so that people can afford them. I also think the the i
ndustry needs to take out the trash in terms of behavior and players so that a new
breed of ethical and substantial players who care about helping others can lead
the way into the future. I also think that the public needs to be educated abou
t the benefits of the water. Im doing my best to support those objectives.
I believe that everyone should have access to clean healthy water, regardless of
their financial position. While it would be great for everyone to have the best
of the best (which I happen to believe is the EOS Platinum at the moment for $1
,500, but unfortunately they are not available from a reliable source in the USA.
heh EOS Hitechare you listening?). Any other high end water ionizer with a great
pre-filter system will also fit the bill, but the reality is that not many peopl
e can afford $1,500 or more for a water machine. To be more specific, not many p
eople can justify spending $1,500 because they dont perceive the machines to offe
r good value. It is not the fault of the machines, because the machines are awes

ome.it is the fault of the distributors for being terrible marketers. You are rig
ht that I have an axe to grind, as I have been carrying around a lot of poisonou
s information for a long time about the deception that the public has been subje
cted to.
I want to see the price of water ionizers drop down to $1,000 as soon as possibl
e. Achieving the $1,000 price level will be difficult because the machines cost
about $500 and then you have to build in the other costs such as shipping, overh
ead, and warranty.and profit. Every water ionizer on the market could sell for $1
,000 and return a handsome profit to the company, but there would be no money fo
r the people who are taking it to the street and educating others. The distribut
ors could sell for $1,000 on-line because they could eliminate a sales force, bu
t the water ionizer business is a face to face business that wont ever get anywhe
re by means of internet marketing.
A few people will research on-line and make a decision to purchase a water machi
ne, but the other 99.9% of people out there need to see it, touch it, and drink
the water to experience the benefits. The entire industry has been built on the
face-to-face work done by Enagic dealers, regardless of which company makes the
sale. Enagic hates the me too companies that contribute nothing but lower prices,
and the me too companies hate Enagic for spreading unsubstantiated facts about their
equipment and the equipment of others.
Until the water machines become mainstream and are available at Costco and Walma
rt, a $1,000 price tag seems remote at this time. So, the next step of my agenda
has kicked into gear due to the introduction of the Antioxidant Filters. The fi
lters are not the magic bullet, but the $400 price tag for clean water that is n
aturally ionized is a big step in the right direction. So, of course Im supportin
g them. I expect more brands of Antioxidant Filters to appear in 2011. I believe
that as awareness and acceptance builds for the new filter systems, more and mo
re people will buy the bigger machines.
There is method to my madness. I hope others will put aside their brand allegian
ces and contribute to an effort that could change our world for the better.
For my part, I will be shifting the focus of my blog away from water ionizers an
d on to filtration and the health benefits of proper hydration and ingesting ant
ioxidants. The public doesnt care about alkaline water and water ionizers. The pu
blic cares about their water being safe to drink. If I can get the public to sta
rt thinking about what they are drinking and investigate alternatives, it will o
nly be a matter of time until people make decisions that will put money in the p
ockets of every dealer of every brand of machine.
===
Hi Indigo:
Let me guess.you like Enagic :)
I hate to pee in anyones cornflakes, but you have gone WAY too far with your comm
ents. You will have to provide proof of your statements. Unless you can prove a
statement such as 0% cancer remission rates, you are being completely irresponsibl
e. Enagic does have some endorsements, but I bet if I check with the NY Yankees,
they dont endorse Enagic.
You have to be careful throwing claims and names around.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but unless you can prove your claims I think you a
re opening yourself up to a world of pain.
I feel the same way, but instead of thinking KANGANIZE THE WORLD, my thought proce
ss is more along the lines of helping the world to understand the benefits of a h
ealthy diet and drinking alkaline ionized water. If Enagic works for you, Im good

with that.
Lets just keep to the facts and embrace the value of the work that is being done
by the other companies as well.
===
Hope you are still following this thread, Indigo. Gabe followed your suggestion
and had a conversation with Enagic corporate. And unfortunately, they were not a
s helpful, transparent and forthcoming as you believed they would be. He has pos
ted the conversation recording here and on his blog. They will not provide docum
entation for the statements you and others have made regarding cancer remission,
superiority of the plates, superiority of the water, or pretty much anything ex
cept to confirm 8 points x $285 for commission payout on the SD501 or $2280. Thats
57% going to multiple (up to 8 levels) individuals for each sale, leaving 43% f
or other bonuses, overhead, and manufacturing cost. So they pay out in commissio
n more than most ionizers retail for. So to say that the compensation plan is no
t the reason for the high price is simply silly or naive. They could pay out $12
80 per machine sold ($160 per point) and cut the price by $1oo0! I would have st
ill been excited to earn that!
===
Im not trying to pick a fight with you or anyone else, but I cant just let people
make unsubstantiated claims. If you can back up the claims, we will all be bette
r for having the information. I love the passion and effort of Enagic dealers, b
ut I take issue with unsubtantiated claims about their own machines, or the mach
ines of their competitors.
Enagic dealers have a right to feel picked on by their competitors because it is t
rue. However, we have a chicken and egg thing going on here. If Enagic could back
up all the statements of fact that they present, I dont think that they would recei
ve a fraction of the flak that they contend with.
Please provide supporting evidence of the following statements that you have mad
e in your comment:
1) There isnt another ionizer out there that can make these amounts of water and l
ast for more than a year or two
I dont agree with the statement. As long as people replace their filters and pay
attention to proper maintenance protocols, many machines will produce an ample s
upply of great water for years.
2) At the end of 15 years, Enagic will recondition their plates to like-new condi
tion for $40. Do any of theother ionizers out there even offer this?
Enagic only started selling machines in 2004, so we will all have to wait and se
e if Enagic is still around 15 years from now. In addition, Enagic is repairing
plates at their repair facility on an ongoing basis, and the plates are certainl
y not 15 years old. I suspect that Enagic plates wear out much faster than the p
lates form other machines in the past few years because of the excess use of pow
er used by the machines. I also suspect that the salt solution added by users to
achieve the extreme pH values contribute to the degradation of the plates. So,
if you are trying to say that Enagic plates last 15 years, I need to see proof o
f that.
3) Seems to me that mostof the other ionizers distributors have taken their sites
down and changed their numbers LONG before their clients warranties are even expi
red
Could you please provide examples of this. Enagic has only been around for 6 yea
rs while other companies such as IonWays have been around for much longer.

The only company that I know of that has left their customers High and Dry is Wate
rforlife USA. Tyent has moved in to take over KYK, so I assume they will look af
ter the previous KYK customers. Even if Tyent drops KYK like they did with IonQu
ench, I assume KYK (or EOS who manufactured machines) will find another dealer,
and they will certainly be able to provide parts as they are good companies that
supply markets worldwide. The real problem is the undercapitalized American dis
tributors, not the Asian manufacturers.
There are a number of other brands that offer lifetime guarantees on all parts i
ncluding the plates. They also offer guarnatees on labour ranging from 5 years t
o a lifetime.
===
The platinum coating on plates will eventually break down on every machine, but
the process can be delayed if the amount of power used is minimized as much as p
ossible.
I understand the EOS is also coming out with a 9 plate Turbo machine as well. Th
e company says that they need to compete with similar products offered by Tyent
etc. What a silly waste of resources and money.
===
FTC
===
I listened to one telephone conference call hosted by a gentleman called Elly???
and the guest speaker was Laurie Tauscher. The things she talked about should h
ave landed her in a lawsuit from Tyent and IonWays if they had the guts to do so
mething about it. It wouldnt surprise me if her claims were grounds for her being
arrested by legal authorities for practicing medicine without a license. Enagic
has GOT TO DO SOMETHING about these false and unsubstantiated claims.
===
Actually I said something like that before,but Enagic could drop its price by $1
000 without abandoning its current marketing plan.But seriously,even I think tha
t Enagic reps are woefully uneducated.Maybe Enagics branches in different countri
es should offer a compulsory training session or something.
===
Enagic could re-engineer its SD501 so that it would cost $400 and work better th
an it does now. They could then introduce the machine to it MLM system for $1,00
0 which would allow for $500 profit per unit after expenses. The MLM system coul
d be a 3 (or more) tier system that pays out $500 to the end seller and the othe
r $500 to the up line people who provide the education.
Enagic would then have a $2000 product which would be more effective and user fr
iendly.would be much easier to sell.. AND.. the dealers wouldnt have to participate
in an ugly distortion of the truth campaign to justify the extra $2,000 in the p
rice of the unit.
I love the fact that Enagic dealers are spreading the word about the water. Howe
ver, Im really angry that Enagic has threatened Gabe Hunninghake with legal actio
n for posting his conversation with their corporate head office. What is Enagic
trying to HIDE?
I understand that Gabe has to provide for his family and doesnt need the hassle.
If Enagic decides to come after me, they have no idea what they will be getting
themselves into. The most powerful government in the world was unable to shut do
wn Wikileaks despite their best efforts. Everyone loves a conspiracy story and t
hings can go viral nowdays in a heartbeat.
===
I think the Enagic dealers will agree with your work horse comments. I have to agr
ee with your assessment as I know a lot of Enagic dealers that give away a lot o
f water everyday. The SD501 is truly a workhorse.

I dont know if I agree with you about being at the end of an era for electronic w
ater ionizers. I still think that they have an import role to play in the self h
elp segment of the health industry. A great water ionizer with an efficient prefilter system is a powerful tool.
I have been studying Hayashis work with magnesium to create free hydrogen. His sc
ience makes sense and is confirmed by the engineers from the water ionizer indus
try that that I have spoken with from Asia. Unfortunately, Hayashi is the only p
erson in the world with a device that will measure free hydrogen and he is not s
haring. Therefore, we dont really know if any free hydrogen remains in water prod
uced from electronic water ionizers, or in the water produced from an Antioxidan
t filter.
My test results, and the results from others that are testing the Antioxidant Fi
lters are definitely showing some differences between ionized water produced fro
m electonic water ionizers and antioxidant filters. One gentleman in Toronto has
noticed that ionized water from an antioxidant filter evaporates much faster th
an ionized water from an electronic water ionizer. I dont even know where to begi
n with that information. Many test results indicate that the negative ORP lasts
much longer with with that antioxidant filters. In addition, when you shake up t
he water vigorously from an electronic water ionizer, the negative ORP drops dra
matically while shaking the ionized water from an antioxidant filter only has a
nominal effect on the ORP. Once again, I dont know what to make of these test res
ults, but Im working on it.
In regards to Hayashis hydrogen sticks that sell for $69 to $89, Im still not a fa
n. For people my age, you need 3 sticks and you have to replace them every few w
eeks. The cost is high, the inconvenience is high, and the water is not getting
cleaned. After saying that, for an airplane ride or in a pinch, the sticks can b
e useful.
Please keep us posted on the new technology you mentioned. I would be interested
in reviewing the process on how oxygen and free hydrongen are added to the wate
r.
and the gentleman in the USA that is Hayashis desciple (his name escapes me for t
he moment) as I understand what you are talking about in regards to the natural as
pect of creating ionized water. I agree that the use of ceramics and far infrare
d is pretty cool, but I believe that magnesium plays a big role. Dr. Hayashi tel
ls us that all we really need is to run water across magnesium to create free hy
drogen. His science makes sense
===
I have seen the SD501s for sale on Ali Baba a couple of times over the years and
they show up at about the $560 range if memory serves me. Yes, Ali Baba can be v
ery unreliable, but it can also be very good as I have used Ali Baba to buy unit
s for testing in the past.
Trying to ascertain a real price in the abscence of irrefutable proof is best left
to comparisons of similar known entitites. All the major brands sell for $400 t
o $500 out of Asia and they all have similar or better/more sophisticated compon
ents. If Enagic pays more for their plates, that is their choice, but it is irre
levent. If Enagic chooses to pay more for assembly because Japanese labor is mor
e expensive, that is their choice, but it is irrelevent. The days of Japanese ma
nufacturing superiority are over, and nobody in their right mind would tell you
that having one person assemble a complete machine would be more efficient than
specialization. Even if Enagic machines are a bit more expensive to build due to
choices made by Enagic, it doesnt explain the $2,300 or more of commissions buil
t into a MLM system on top of the profit contribution of each machine before it
is turned over to the MLM system.
When Enagic can provide actual proof in terms of any form of independent profess

ional testing, I will acknowledge the difference, but I will never believe that
the price difference is worth it. My testing in my lab and testing done by many
people I have spoken with dont substantiate the Enagic claims. Even the Enagic he
ad office wont substantiate the claims.
After saying all of the above, if an Enagic dealer can convince someone to buy t
he SD501, I think it is a good thing because the water will help the person.
===
I am an Enagic distributor SERIOUSLY contemplating leaving the company after one
sale. I wanted to know the truth about Enagic and I believe I have seen through
the seemingly well-intentioned deceit.
Rob, I AM PASSIONATE about alkaline, ionized water and am VERY dedicated to help
ing people, which is why I was not afraid to discover the truth, whatever that m
ight be.
I used Michael Kinetts power point presentation to justify supporting the Enagic
myth. So, it would be a GREAT service to Enagic Distributors if you can refute t
hat particular tool where you find it to be untrue.
Sounds like you have your priorities straight, with your grandchild. And PLEASE
get to that Kinett review as soon as you possibly can.
===
WE HAVE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THINK OUTSIDE THE REALM OF THE IONIZER. GOD NEVER IN
TENDED TO HAVE HIS GIFT OF WATER REPLICATED THROUGH THE PROCESS OF ELECTRICUTION
. THIS METHOD IS NOT A NATURAL ACT AND IT CERTAINLY OPPOSES NATURE. WATER, AS WE
NOW KNOW, HAS MEMORY AND WILL RETURN TO ITS ORIGINAL STATE WITH IN TIME. NOT TO
MENTION, THAT WATER DOES NOT FORGET THE PAIN INFLICTED BY THAT PROCESS. REMEMBE
R: WATER IS A WITNESS. I JOHN 5:8. GOD WANTS MAN TO WORK WITH NATURE NOT AGAINST
IT.
===
based on my research/opinions Id put it this way If you create free hydrogen vis a
vis electric ionization you will produce beneficial ORP, etc. type water that w
ill produce immediate benefits, particularly right in the gut where the free hyd
rogen has an immediate impact on the free radicals in your body. It becomes an i
mmediate detox. Important thing to remember everybody feels good after a detox,
because that immediate flushing of toxins out of the body feels very good and yo
ur body loves it. But as Enagic knows that benefit over time dissipates. Who car
es what a paper cup of water measures in terms of ORP, pH etc. WHAT DOES IT DO I
N YOUR BODY? IS THE WATER HELPING TO CREATE THE BUFFER THAT THE BODY RELIES ON N
ATURALLY, CONSISTENTLY FEND OFF THE ACIDIC SUBSTANCES/TOXINS THAT WILL ALWAYS IN
SOME FORM COME INTO OUR BODIES. How do you feel once you stop drinking Kangen w
ater? You feel like crap. You know what else makes you feel really really good,
until you abstain . think along the lines of addictive substances. I believe that
when people who are somewhat out of shape, have excess toxins in their body and
/or are somewhat obese (like I was) that then is when Kangen water can demonstra
te the most significant change towards a positive reaction to the water. But as
you continue to drink, and if youre doing other mandatory steps towards an empowe
ring, holistic healthy body, and as your body becomes more in balance the body w
ill come to recognize Kangen water as no longer necessary in fact, will not agree
with it. BUT if you continue to eat cheeseburgers, fries and other unhealthy ch
oices your body will then crave that electrically manipulated artificial, immedi
ate high Kangen water. But in such people, at that time in their lifes, there bo
dies are far more inadequate on much more deeper levels in terms of the necessar
y minerals that the body are relies on from water. Water is PRANA, natural, Moth
er earth energy. prana IS NOT transmitted vis a vis electricity. If as Larry and I
ndigo (Lauri) point out that Enagic are indeed in comparision Medical grade equi
pment (and they are in my opinion and better machines than their electric counte
rparts, again just my opinion, sorry Rob/Gabe I think those other electrical ioni
zers are pretty cheap..) BUT getting back to Enagic, perhaps in the hospital tha

ts where they belong. to/for someone who is severely out of shape and in a state o
f imbalance within their bodies. As people have been commenting people first buy
the Enagic and they love the benefits, but its short term and they find that the
ir body is now saying okay enough of this band-aid approach to water give me the r
eal deal I am willing to bet that it is those people who have also taken the othe
r positive holistic health steps and their bodies have graduated to a higher lev
el of health. (not trying to compare people, and knock on people whom are out of
balance) BUT if instead you still eat cheeseburgers and do not graduate to a hi
gher level of balanced health.. then youre going to continue to need/want/find be
nefit from a short-term band-aid water.
===
I think the Hydrogen sticks are OK, but I would never use one to replace a prope
r water ionizer. When the price of water ionizers come down in the near future,
the demand for cheap alternatives will drop. Hydrogen sticks add minerals to the
water, which creates a higher pH. If you simply want a higher pH, there are muc
h cheaper ways to achieve the goal such as using mineral drops, or stirring a sp
oonful of baking soda into a glass of tap water.
===
The Scam designation is part of the disgraceful behavior that is widespread in the
water ionizer industry. If people do their homework, they will discover that th
e Enagic machines are overpriced in comparison to other water ionizers, but thei
r is no Scam going on in terms of the machines being able to ionize water and ther
efore provide tremendous benefits. It is easy for anyone to determine that Enagi
c pays out 8 levels of selling fees and their reps will happy to show you the bus
iness opportunity.
When people talk about Scams, the implication is that you are paying for something
that the manufacturers or producers sell with the knowledge that they dont work.
For example, think about how many people undergo chemotherapy at $50,000 per se
ssion when their physicians know that the treatments wont help. There is often no
reasonable justification for the treatment that is likely to cause much more da
mage than good in many cases. However, the treatments are still performed on the
grounds that perhaps a miracle might happen.
I watched as my Dads body was ravaged by chemo when there was no chance of recove
ry. Now that was a Scam that was legally performed by the leading practitioners of t
heir time. I would have rather seen my Dad be told to purchase a water ionizer a
t any price and eat a strict alkaline diet. He may still have died, but at least
he would have had a realistic chance to survive. In the very least, the last mo
nths of his life would not have been 1,000 times better than the torture that he
underwent with chemo.
===
As we all know, Kangen means back to the source. It has nothing to do with a proces
s. All water ionizers use electrolysis to produce ionized water, including Enagi
c. The statement no other company can make Kanger Water except Enagic is meaningle
ss as all companies can make Kangen/ionized water. The entire Kangen trademark is
worthless marketing hype. Sorry for being so brutal, but the Enagic dealers use
this type of nonsense in an attempt to diminish the other machines in the indust
ry. Sanastec now uses the Kangen name and I bet all the other companies can as w
ell if they bothered to challenge the trademark.
The info you provided about Medical Grade/Surgical Grade plates is marketing garb
lygook. It means nothing. The plates themselves have very little to do with the o
utput of the machines, and the coating definitely has nothing to do with the per
formance at all. The platinum coating only serves a protective surface over the
titanium plates. In fact, the coating process for the plates used by Enagic is n
othing to brag about based upon the research I have done.
Im not here to bash Enagic, as I really appreciate all the hard work their dealer
s have done. However, when false or meaningless statements are made (and Enagic

dealers are the undisputed kings of false statements) it makes me angry. I dont c
are how Enagic or anyone else markets their products as long as they are not mak
ing false statments that appear to make other products seem less authentic or be
neficial to your health.
===
I have been speaking with Jay and David, the owners at Jupiter. They are good gu
ys and have a real interest in helping others. I have to say that all of the Jup
iter people that I have met or worked with have their hearts in the right place.
Jay and David were telling me that they actually hired someone to help create an
organization for the industry which would promote the industry and fair play in
the industry. In Canada, we call the person that holds that position an Ombudsm
an. Canadians are big on Ombudsmen as opposed to lobbyists. The guys at Jupiter
said that none of the competitors would cooperate and help pay for the creation
and maintenance of an association. Now why doesnt that surprise me.
It drives me crazy to think that only 1 out of 1,000 households in the USA and C
anada own a water ionizer, when the machines are so beneficial to your health. I
t also drives me crazy to see the fake review sites and all the mudslinging. My go
al is to increase the awareness of these amazing machines from one in one thousa
nd to one in one hundred. From there, we will strive to increase awareness to on
e in ten and eventually to everyone, just like it is in parts of Asia.
If I keep working on this blog, hopefully the players in the industry will stop
thinking Im trying to take over the industry and realize that they will be the be
neficiaries of my work. Only those that play nasty or cheat or lie have anything
to fear from me.
===
I understand your concern about the price of the Kangen units as $4,000 is a lot
of money. However, I wouldnt choose the Vollara product as an alternative at thi
s point in time. I havent got my hands on a Vollara unit to test it yet, but Gabe
(one of the valuable participants in this thread) has informed me that the Voll
ara only has one ionizer product and it runs on very low power and only has one
plate. You can purchase the best water ionizer money can buy for about $1,700, s
o it doenst make any sense to pay $2,000 for an untested unit like the Vollara. I
would let someone else be the Guinea Pig.
Im in no position to offer medical advice. I can however tell you from my own per
sonal experience that drinking water eliminated the debilitating arthrits that w
as diminishing my life. I have also talked to dozens, if not more than one hundr
ed people who have enjoyed significant relief of their arthritic symptoms once t
hey began drinking ionized water.
I have never had psoriasis, but I have spoken to several people that have experi
enced significant relief after drinking the alkaline water and swathing the affe
cted skin with acidic water.
Will you achieve results similar to those I have mentioned above? There is no wa
y to know for certain, but you can be sure that the water wont hurt you.
If you have any doubts about the ability of the water to help you, perhaps you m
ight consider contacting someone you know who owns a machine. You could drink wa
ter from their machine to see how the the water affects you. If you dont know any
one who has a machine, call a company that sells water ionizers and ask them to
provide you with test water, or refer you to one of their clients in your area.
I believe Kangen representatives provide potential customers with free water for
a month or two before cutting them off. Personally, I dont like the practice but
I can see how it would be effective. When I was was in the water ionizer busine
ss, I used to sell a lot of units to people who called in that had been cut off
by their Kangen representative. The callers wanted to buy a machine because of t
he benefits, but were turned off by the price and by the pressure put on them th
e Kangen dealer.

===
http://www.iesolutions.wordpress.com/
===
Rob, Id only make one correction to what you said. The Vollara unit doesnt use 1 p
late, it uses direct disk ionization. It converts water thru electrolysis, but t
he way it does is with a disk electrode. Saying the unit only has 1 plate [in th
e world of plates] gives the impression of low quality water. Its apples and oran
ges. Its also important to know Vollara just isnt a new ionizer importer. Its a new
subsidiary of Aerus, who also owns electrolux, land olakes, horizon organic dair
y, etc. Solid companies and long histories. To my knowledge, only 1 other compan
y is tryig to drive cost down right now. The rest are going for bigger, better a
nd more expensive. Theres room to continue decreasing, but at least its starting.
I dont just use Vollara in my inventory, there are a few others I make available
[after the recommendation of a few...including Rob], but Ive found the water to b
e not only comparable, but in some cases better. Especially in extreme high/low
TDS.
Mike, if youd like to talk, please let me know. I do [and will] give a 60 day $ b
ack guarantee. Even long-distance. If I know someone close to you with a Vollara
unit, Ill see if I can arrange a way for you to get the water and look at the un
it. Ill give Rob my contact info again, although I think he has it. If youre inter
ested, ask him.
Here you go Rob. Black it out for the forum if youd like. 785-856-3912, iesolutio
ns@ymail.com, skype: gabehunninghake
===
I must force myself to keep an open mind when it comes to a MLM system when it c
omes to the water ionizer business. I like the fact that there has been a move t
o establish lower prices. However, I find it hard to believe in a company that h
as so many different products in so many different fields. Where is the focus an
d the committment to research and product development? An example of my concern
is the Enagic SD501. The machine is made by Toyo, a world famous tire manufactur
er, who has not improved or updated the machine in 14 years. The SD501 is just t
he old Pureport II with a different face.
===
There are no guarantees when it comes to health. Water ionizers help so many peo
ple, but not everyone. The water also helps for many ailiments, but not all aili
ments. The water ionizer companies typically offer a 60 day money back guarantee
. Some companies offer a full refund during the 60 day period, while others typi
cally charge a 15% restocking fee. The 15% restocking fee is more than fair and
should be charged because the vendor loses the credit card charge (about 2.5%) a
nd must check out and clean the machine and install new filters. Then the machin
e has to be sold at a discount as a demo unit. When I was in the business, I fou
nd that a returned unit acutally cost about 30%, so the 15% restocking fee only
partially covered the loss. Again I digress.
There are a number of great water ionizers available on the market now. Unfortun
ately, most of them are priced in the $2,000 to $2,500 range. The EOS Platinum i
s a top of the line machine that currnetly sells for $1,695. It has everything t
he other leading machines have, and more. There is still room for the price of t
he machine to go lower, but at least its a step in the right direction. I suspect
that it is just a matter of time before the competition realizes that the publi
c wants and will eventually demand lower prices. Tyent was selling a lower quali
ty EOS model which Tyent called the IonQuench for $1,440 that is also a good uni
t. However, I believe that EOS has stopped making the units for Tyent, so I dont
know who makes the IonQuench machines. I would need to know who is making the Io
nQuench machines now before I would recommend it.
===
Thanks Rob. You may be right. I think Vollara looked at their competition as Ena

gic only. While there are other manufactures, Enagic is the only company hitting
the streets trying to help people. They do the hard work and then Tyent, LifeIo
nizers, etc grab the sale because of their lower prices.
Just for clarification, Vollara offers numerous other products through their net
work of distributors. Electricity recycling/surge protection, laundry systems th
at eliminate detergent, air purification, etc. They have point people responsibl
e for each area and an entire section focused on new product development. They w
ill continue to improve in all industries, but unless Enagic gets their act toge
ther and begins dropping prices instead of just adding more plates, there wont be
much of a push. Whats on the drawing board is some pretty amazing stuffand like i
t or not, very little of which can be found outside of the MLM world.
I have my frustrations as well, one of which is the stereotype MLM reputation. S
ome of it deservedly so, but most is not when given a fair look. If a MLM compan
y can effectively train and motivate their sales force to do the hard work of in
troducing ionizers, then they should get paid more than the ones who sit back, d
esign misleading reviews and then smear the initial company/distributor just to ma
ke the sale. (By more, I do not mean $2,000 more) Vollaras top line product is pr
iced in line with EOS, Chanson, etc, but still allows income for the business ow
ner whos done the hard work of introducing and helping.
Unfortunately, it seems the ionized water industry is becoming polluted.
===
If Vollara product is good and they market as well as Enagic, then I think they
will do well regardless of their miscalculation on prices. I still need to take
apart a Vollara machine and test it before I can offer any worthwhile opinion.
I hope that the pollution that you refer to in the industry will clear up over tim
e. We need to continue to put pressure on the companies to play fair and play ni
ce so that public doesnt think the whole industry is a scam. I continue to remain
optimistic.otherwise my blog is a waste of time.
===
Ive been thinking a lot about the miscalculation on price recently. The more I th
ink from Vollaras perspective, the more I think its completely and accurately calc
ulated. Follow this logic with me.
Vollara is a network company. They grow more by increasing the size of their dis
tribution network than they do through end user sales only. Therefore they add i
ncentives to packages of products to start a business with more than they do ret
ail profit.
Heres an example in numbers. I can sell a $1999 ionizer to a customer and make a
$700 profit. Any vollara distributor can at any level. The person with 1 week in
business makes the same retail profit as someone whos been working for 15 years.
However, I can also offer the customer already willing to spend $1999 another ch
oice. And I dont care if they want to develop extra income or not. I can register
them as a dealer and for $1999, they get the following:
1- Alkaline Water Ionizer
1- FreshAir Surround Environmental Treatment System which sanitizes the air and
all surfaces within a 3000 sq. ft space. Proven by numerous university and govt s
tudies.
1- LaundryPure which eliminates the need for hot water, detergent, fabric softne
r and sorting. They clothes are truly clean, not just covered with chemical scen
ts. [Hotels and medical facilities like these]

2 months of nutritional/cellular support including Immunitize (google it).


I think anyone would see that as a good deal and very few are going to go with t
he ionizer alone.
For me, the beauty of that is Ive just helped the client on a much larger level.
Their home is safer, their clothes last longer, they save money in a very short
return period and they have the option of making some part-time money [if they w
ant to] by helping others be healthier as well.
My profit is $640 for that package with no long term monthly expenses or require
ments to the client. Im not upselling anything. Im just adding additional value.
The client is also not stuck with 3 other expensive ionizers to sell and if they
dont want a business they dont have to work it. They just keep the products and a
ll parties are happy.
SoI dont think Vollara priced the ionizer to sell 1 at a time. I think they wholes
ale priced the entire package at half the enagic so we can show a client how muc
h more they can get for 50% of the investment. Or for how much more they can get
for roughly the same cost as a tyent, eos, chason, etc.
===
The extras cost you $60 based upon your profits dropping from $700 to $640. That
seems like an inexpensive way to introduce products to clients with the hope of
capturing future business, so it seems like a good business idea. Whether peopl
e want those extras is another question.
Thanks for providing the math on the profit structure. Based upon a retail sales
price of $1995 and your profit from the sale of a unit of $700, that means the
MLM company is providing the unit to the system for $1,295. Based upon what I kn
ow about conventional water ionizers, that introductory price is way way way too
high. I dont know the cost to make the Vollara, but based upon the description y
ou have given me in the past, I suspect that the company itself is probably maki
ng about $1,000 per unit. If the company dropped their huge profit margins, the
unit could easily sell for $1,500, which would make the price more palatable.
Ultimately, the real measusing stick is whether the Vollara works. Any compariso
n of prices is irrelevant without taking the performance and durability and ease
of use, and ongoing operating costs into consideration. I dont know the answers
to any of those factors, so it is unfair for me to comment.
===
2) I dont put a great deal of value on ISO certification. It is a good thing, but
I put much more value on UL or CSA (or their accepted derivatives) approval. IS
O is a measure of plant quality and has very little or really nothing to do with
a product.
3) I dont understand your question. I believe you are asking why some machines wa
ter that has improved pH and ORP values initially and then return to the origina
l values found in the tap water, while others dont. Sounds like a Kangen remark t
o me as they are always claiming superiority for one thing or another. The reali
ty is that water is very stable and ionization alters that stability. Altered pH
remains alter for extended periods of time while ORP returns to pre-existing va
lues much faster. My testing of various machines doesnt prove anything conclusive
in terms of comparisons between the longevity of altered conditions. The result
s vary depending on so many factors that the entire arguement becomes irrelevent
. The bottom line is that the goal is to drink the water as fresh as possilbe.
4) The markups are huge. In general, the markups on most direct selling units ar
e in the 300% to 400% range. In defence of the industry, the markups are not exc
essive compared to many products that we buy. However, the electonics industy op
erates on small margins and these products are electronic products. Only one ten

th of one percent of home have in the USA and far less in Canada own water ioniz
ers. Once the awareness grows, the prices will come down. If you remember back a
few years, a 42 plasma tv cost $9,500 while you can purchase more advanced but s
imilar products for well under $1,000. I expect that water ionizers will be avai
lable in the $1,000 range at places like Costco in the next few years if sales v
olumes increase.
5) MLM or multi level marketing relies upon a self motivated marketing team that
has many layers of commission. Direct sales usually consits of levels as well,
but fewer levels. Direct sales typically have a manufacturer, a manufacturing ag
ent, various distributors operating in different countries or territories, whole
salers, and dealers. The mannufacturing agent typically adds 10%, Distributors t
ypically add 10% to 15%. The percentage added by wholesalers is all over the map
, but the range seems to be 20% to 40%. Retails/dealers usually double the price
. So, when you add it all up, if the price out of the factory is $1, the price t
o the consumer is about $4. For an MLM product like Enagic water ionizers, the p
rice and margins about about double the products sold by direct sales.
===
My only other thought is with respect to duration. Only time will tell I guess.
The DDI system went through extensive testing so Im not worried about functionali
ty problems. Especially in light of how Vollara has righted the ship when it cam
e some of the other technologies they now manufacture.
Good results this week. 1 client who hasnt been able to loose weight in a year de
spite working out and watching the diet has lost 5 lbs in 10 days. Another who i
s battling diabetes is seeing improvement in blood sugar levels and a third with
acid reflux and fibromyalgia is improving as well. The last 2 have tried medici
nes for 20+ yrs. Only the water has shown signs of working.
===
Great news in regards to the feedback from your clients.
Weight loss: I have talked to hundreds of people who have lost from 5 to 70 poun
ds of weight once they begin drinking the water. The water doesnt work for everyo
ne but it works for a a good percentage of people
Diabetes: I have talked to several (not hundreds) of people who have experienced
great results when they started drinking the water. Their insulin levels drop b
y siginificant amounts and it seems that the fluctuations in their insulin level
s level out.
Acid Reflux: The improvement in acid reflux is almost universal among the hundre
ds of people that I have spoken with. I had a very bad case of acid reflux and m
ine was fixed within a week and I havent taken any more medication for more than
two years.
fibromyalgia: When I was in the water ionizer business, I corresponded with thre
e different women that suffered terribly from fibromyalgia. The water changed th
eir lives to the point that the Fibromyalgia was no longer an issue in their liv
es.
===
I got a news flash for everyone, all the machines out there make the same restru
ctured water if you can prove otherwise, I am sure you would
so, wheres the proof of this vaunted SD501 being worth 4K?
===
The Enagic reps mean well.they really do. The information that the dealers are fe
d ranges from leaving a lot to be desired to downright lies. I dont know how to comba
t the problem other than to continue to encourage the dealers for all the hard w
ork that they do, and to recommend that they do their homework as you suggested.
===
I am (or the store where I work is) a Chanson dealer; I was given the opportunit
y to choose which ionizer we would sell, and I chose Chanson, as I believed it t

o be the best on the market (for the price). If youre familiar with Dr. Robert Yo
ung, hes also made comments to that effect.
Today I met a Vollara dealer- I was (am) totally unfamiliar with this brand, exc
ept for what I was told by the dealer, and what Ive read so far here. So now Im ba
sically wondering just which ionizer is best for the money. -I fully intend to b
e honest with our customers, and up to now Ive been saying Chanson is best, since
Ive seen credible video showing pH as low as 1.86 and as high as 12 (without add
ing any sort of chemical).
===
If you work or own a store that sells water ionizers, dont be afraid to give the
store some free promotion here. People are always looking for a place where they
can actually see and test the machines.
Im very familiar with Chanson. I like their machines. I dont care for the twisted
ethics of the owner, but that just makes him one of the boys in this industry. I
t is inevitable that the industry will eventually evolve to a point where the le
aders will combine both good ethics and good business skills.
I have a great deal of respect for the reseach and work done by Robert Young. Ho
wever, the story of how Robert Young came to switch from Jupiter to Chanson is n
ot pretty. The story behind how Robert Young came to appear on the video with th
e owner of Chanson is even worse. Suffice it to say that everyone has an agenda
and that means that you should take what you see on presentations on the interne
t with a large, and I mean a large grain of salt.
Which water ionizer is the best value? Historically, I would say that depends on
what features the customer was looking for, their budget, and the condition of
the source water. The 7 plate machines have all become so good that it is really
doesnt matter which one you choose. Even the five plate machines are great perfo
rmers when good source water conditions exist. In fact, Im testing a four plate m
achine that is still waiting for safety approval that is delivering fantastic re
sults.
My goal all along has been to drive down prices so that more people could afford
these incredible machines. Now we are starting to see it happen.
Tyent makes a very good machine, but their products are grossly over priced at a
s they range from $2,495 to $2,995. Tyent has introduced four new and improved m
odels in two years and the price keeps going up each time as they add more plate
s and more power. Tyent has been at the forefront of pushing the bigger is better
theme. The reality is that the machines are far more powerful and have more plat
es than they need to be effective. What the market really wants is a machine tha
t works and can be purchased at a reasonable price.
It seems that Tyent has finally grasped the concept that people may want to spen
d less on a machine as long as it works. Tyent forced KYK out of business in Ame
rica by taking advantage of the weak distributor of KYK products, and then made
an agreement to bring them back under the Tyent umbrella. Disgusting ethics, but
a brilliant business move. The new and improved KYK unit sells for $1,525. The we
bsites say the price is $1,795, but the dealers all offer the machine at $1,525,
so who is kidding who. The old KYK machine was a great product until KYK decide
d to cut costs by putting knockoff parts into the machines that EOS produced suc
cessfully for them for several years. It remains to be seen if KYK has solved al
l of the problems that they created when they left their reliable supplier. At l
east the price is moving in the right direction.
Chanson sells a full line of water ionizers. Their VS70 under counter unit is th
e best value for under counter machines in the industry at the moment, but the o
ther machines in their lineup are not impressive relative to the competition.

The Jupiter machines all have five plates and limited power. That means that the
ir machines are best suited to the entry level buyer, or situations where the so
urce water conditions are excellent. As such, the Jupiter Venus at $1,195 would
be my choice from their line of products, as the Venus performed as well as the
other more expensive Jupiter machines that I tested.
Right now, the EOS Platinum is my favourite. The machine is technologically supe
rior to anything out there right now and it is offered at $1,395. The list price
is $1,695, but the American distributor seems to change the price every few wee
ks. It is a shame that such a great product is being handled so badly by the dis
tributor. It appears that the distributor has already lost all of the major deal
ers to Tyent as Tyent is able to exert their market power over dealers to force
the dealers to choose between Tyent/IonQuench/KYK and EOS. Once again, Tyents eth
ics are terrible, but their business skills are sharp. If the EOS distributor in
the USA doesnt get its act together in a hurry, Tyent will end up stealing the e
ntire segment with an unproven product that sells at a higher price. That would
be a shame.
The good news is that the players in the industry will all fight hard for market
share. That means that prices will continue to drop until the excess profit has
been squeezed out of the industry. There is still lots of room for prices to dr
op. I expect it will be the dealers that will be forced to accept lower profit m
argins or get pushed out of the industry when prices fall. I just dont see the di
stributors reducing their large profit margins unless they are forced to do so b
y competition. The good news is that the consumer will benefit as the price wars
heat up.
My advice for anyone looking for a water ionizer is to find a good dealer that p
uts your interests first. The machines are all good, so you really cant go wrong.
All of the above opinions are based upon my research and testing. I do my best t
o leave the treachery of the players of some of the players out of the equation.
===
Christopher Dittemore
This is my first time on your blog and after much of my own research on water, e
specially Kangen water. I have to let you know that your review of the Hydrogen
Water Stick is incorrect.
A small review of the website itself, will show that PH is not the aim of the hy
drogen stick.. Dr. Hayashi (the doctor behind Kangen water) himself created the
hydrogen stick after discovering PH and ORP were side effects of the true cause
of the healing water.
Quite simply, the available hydrogen after electrically splitting the water is w
hat the body uses for healing. Unfortunately, the electrical process of splittin
g water is known to have some long term side effects. I can give you examples of
this research, but I dont think we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater
..
===
The body uses both hydrogen and oxygen to heal. The water produced from water io
nizers is rich in hydroxyl ions which carry a negative charge and are rich in ox
ygen due to the OH- configuration.
You can perform an interesting test when the water comes out of the drinking lin
e of a water ionizer. If you hold a flame close to the water, you can actually s
ee the hydrogen burning off if your machine is producing a strong alkaline water
. In addition, when the water goes into the glass, you can see that the water is
somewhat cloudy. What you are actually seeing is the hydrogen bubbles rising to
the surface and popping before they disappear.

What concerns me about the hydron sticks is that we have no idea what is in them
. Why does the manufacturer keep this a secret and why does the manufacturer rec
ommend that you throw away the water if you leave the stick in for too long. And
while we are at it, why doesn the water begin to smell after awhile.
Im all for innovation and hydrogen machines were the new thing when I was visiting
water ionizer factories in Korea in April of this year. I dont have a problem wit
h the theory behind water sticks, but lets find out what we are drinking and let
s find a solution for filtering the water first.
Ian Hamilton, a long time advocate of ionized water from Australia, has been tes
ting the new technology for some time, using a much more sophisticated filtering
system that is more reliable. He is excited about the results it has been deliv
ering as they can produce reliable ionized water without using electricity. The
new machines are actually hydrogen machines and based upon the same principle as
a hydrogen stick. I have ordered a test sample to see how it checks out. I woul
d be happy to endorse the technology if Im satisfied that it is safe and produces
good results. The good news is that the machines will be very inexpensive compa
red to water ionizers because they are basically a box with a sophisticated filt
er.
===
Hi Chris:
Thanks for your comments. I have done a lot of research since I wrote the articl
e and Im now much better informed. I agree with you that it is all about Hydrogen
ions.
I still dont care for the hydrogen sticks except for travel because they dont clea
n the water, they are slow and therefore not convenient, and they are expensive
for what you get. After saying that, if someone cant afford $399 for an Alkastrea
m, then a Hydrogen Stick is a lot better than nothing.
===
http://iesolutions.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/does-your-water-burn/
Gabe is a great friend to this blog. He is committed to educating and helping ot
hers. He sells Vollara water ionizers plus other household products such as air
cleaners. He operates a good blog with lots of good stuff on it. There you go Ga
beyour own person advertisement from me.you deserve it
===
Keep up the good work. Maybe you and Marissa representing the Volara machines ca
n challenge Juli and the Enagic gang to a MLM dual while the rest of us can all
sit back and watch the fireworks. Actually, based upon what I know about you fro
m our discussions and your posts, you are above all of that.
===
Im not going to fight it out with Juli. I dont have the time or energy and there i
s enough already out there Id just be regurgitating. If Marissa does, she can. Sh
e has the experience to stand on her own as she is Ex-Enagic and was very well c
onnected within their company. She wrote some of their sales literature.
Ive spoken with her and she is another of those who truly believe in the water. S
he lost faith in Enagic and went elsewhere. She could have just as easily ended
up supplying Chanson or Tyent, but chose Vollara instead. [Her blog, which I ll
let her share if she wants, gives the details.]
I met with an Enagic rep yesterday because I wanted to find a kindred spirit. In
many areas I did, but not when it came to the water. He firmly believes theirs
is worth $4k, but hes sold very few of them retail. Most of his sales have been v
ia downline recruits. Compensation and income opportunity first, water second. H
e even tried recruiting me. God Bless him. :)
I just wish everyone would stop the pissing match and fight a much larger enemy.

Like the people preaching Breast Cancer Awareness and then holding out their ha
nd for $$$as if their brand of awareness is going to help.
===
marissa
http://www.alkastream.blogspot.com/
http://www.alkastreamusa.com/
===
The Enagic reps are amazing as they are so passionate. You dont get to be that pa
ssionate over money alonethe machines have to work.and they do. Hopefully, we, as
an industry, can find a way to tap into the passion and determination of the Ena
gic reps and get them focused on delivering value. I think the Enagic reps belie
ve that the Enagic machine is the only good machine, which is simply not true. I
also think the Enagic reps believe that the only way to make money in the water
ionizer business is to sell Enagic products, which is simply not true.
===
You are absolutely correct when you say that there is not much from the world of
science to back up all the claims being made about water ionizers. The closest
(and should I say only) thing to an expert imo is Dr. Hayashi. You can check out
his stuff on line.
What I can say with 100% confindence and purity of thought is that the bloody th
ings work based upon my own experience and the experiences of hundreds of people
that have shared their stories with me. I dont know how or why my computer or my
cell phone works, but I dont really need to. I just need them to work. I know th
is is a lousy explanation, but I have spent a ridiculous amount of time research
ing pH and ORP and now Hydrogen. Nobody has provided fool proof evidence of the
how or why, and to be blunt, the only arguement that makes any sense to me is th
e Hydrogen story.
If you read up on the hydrogen guys, they tell us that water ionizers are bad fo
r you. That is what Mercola has picked up on, as he doesnt do any actual research
himself, or even bother to check his facts. I talk to a lot of people who have
been on the water for along time, and I dont buy the Hydrogen scare tactics. Water
ionizers work for me and lots and lots and lots of people and have been doing so
for a long time. Bottom line is that water is the key and there seems to be a c
ouple of different ways to go (natural ionization and electrolysis ionization) a
nd they both work.
===
First of all, I love your webalony term. If you dont mind, Im going to use that now
and again.
I might add 1 thing to what Rob said. See if their is someone close to you who w
ill let you try it. I was like you, did a ton of research and then just decided
to jump in because I didnt feel like I could really know without trying.
Call the companies and search for dealers. Get on their respective facebook page
s and ask for a sample. You should be able to find someone close to you. I would
also recommend buying the water from them. Getting it from them for free leads
them to think youll possibly buy a machine from them in the future. Be honest, te
ll them you are researching and are not sold on the whole concept yet.
As much as wed like to think we can make logical decisions, our brains really are
experiential. Taste, feel and then decide.
===
I was just wondering why everyone attacks Enagic, mainy about the cost, yet no o
ne seems to be willing to mention the other priced machines besides the SD501? D
id you know they have machines that start at 1,280? Maybe it would make you look
bad to actually mention the truth about the competition, when it is so much eas
ier to complain about the price of ONLY their high end machine, and leave out th
e other 3 models? Its too bad I cannot find a truly unbiased report anywhere that

I feel I can trust. Do you know of the high quality control that they use in ma
nufacturing their product, from beginning to end themselves (they do not outsour
ce and assemble) and that their titanium plates and hoses are medical grade,and
the plates are dipped, not sprayed with platinum, etc, etc, etc, and oh btw that
the owner of the company made a product that is designed to last a lifetime? An
d is the ONLY product endorsed by the 6,500 member group of doctors in Japan tha
t are the equivalent to our AMA here in America? I guess to some the only factor
is price, so why not mention all the options? Y
et a 37 year old company strives to make a high quality product that is changing
peoples lives as well as giving you an ionizer you may not have to replace, as l
ong as you properly maintain it, and everyone attacks them? Must be a reason
Why not compare the unit that costs comparably to the one you mention, the junio
r2, because it works well alsofor almost $2000 less, or even mention they have a
travel system that some purchase for their home and it works great for them, as
long as they dont have a serious illness and dont need the higher -ORP or need the
sanitary (strong acid 2.5ph) or cleaning (strong alkaline 11.5ph) water as the
travel unit only makes the drinking (8.5, 9.0 and 9.5) and beauty water (same ph
as the skin 6.0).
Did you know that since the -ORP of the water (of ionizers) does not last the fo
under of Enagic made it a rule that we are not to sell the water because it does
not have a shelf life, this is not to be dishonest and try and force you to buy
a machine, as many people still do anyways because it is very sale-able as it b
eats any alkaline water selling in the health food stores for $2.00 a liter. The
idea is to give the water away with NO OBLIGATION so people can experience the
water for themselves because using water that is always 3 days old causes you to
miss out on the anti-oxidant property of the water, the negative ions we desper
ately need that would be missing if it sat on the shelf. You would be missing th
e property that enabled them to become a certified medical device in JapanSo forg
ive me if you ask to buy water from me and I give it to you fresh instead :)
There is also a lot of science behind it, and a lot of medical studies as you ma
y know. Mercola debunks alkaline water because he sells another kind of water pu
rifier, but he is right by saying it is unhealthy to drink water that is too hig
hly alkaline, like the 11.5. It is not made for drinking, just like the 2.5 and
the 6.0 are not for drinkingugh. Oh well I have rambled enough, I wonder if you w
ill even post this lol.
Is there anywhere that is truly unbiased?
===
You are correct about everyone talking about the SD501 and its pricetag. The onl
y problem with your argument is that nobody form Enagic ever talks about their l
ow end models or bothers to sell them. I have tested the Sunus (the $1,280 model
) and it is not a good machine.
Im aware of the quality control used by Enagic and agree that it is good. Im also
aware of the marketing jazz including the 6,500 doctor association that can be purc
hased. The certified medical device was achievec by paying for testing and the desi
gnation was earned for the acidic properties of the water, not the drinking wate
r properties. Enagic doesnt bother to tell that fact to its dealers.
Did you know that the ORP of an antioxidant filter such as the Alkastream ($399)
does last a week. I have personally witnessed this fact,. I have also received
similar results from more than a dozen well respected people in the industry (in
cluding a number of high ranking Kangen dealers) that were part of the test prog
ram of the Alkastream. Everyone who has been part of the test program is amazed
that the ORP numbers remain high for a week. The reason for these so called amazi
ng results is that the antioxidant filters create the ionization naturally by run

ning water over magnesium, and the real or stable ORP is dependent upon the amount o
f minerals in the water. The ORP levels in water created by an antioxidant filte
r stay consistent because the minerals remain in the water and continue to react
with the H20, causing the ongoing creation of hydrogen ions. Ionized water crea
ted by means of electrolysis from water ionizers such as the Enagic SD501 may be
able to have huge negative ORP levels initially, but the ORP level of the water
will work its way back down to the real or natural level of ORP depending upon the
level of mineral in the water.
Im a big fan of water ionizers, because they do work. However, while the human bo
dy does react very well to the initial detoxification process in the first days,
I no longer believe that humans should be drinking water with a pH of 9.5 or 10
.0 over a sustained basis. From all of my research, I now believe that an initia
l detox of 9.5 is great and should be repeated about twice per year, the rest of
the time, people should be drinking water with a pH of 8.0 to no more than 9.0
and a negative ORP of no more than -300. Given those parameters, people dont need
to spend $4,000 or even $2,000 on a ionizer.
The antioxidant filters produce that same desired health benefits as electronic
water ionizers, but the water can be consumed anytime as opposed to the first te
n seconds (which is what you have to do with electrolysized water to gain the ma
ximum benefit of the hydrogen that escapes when the bubbles rise to the surface
of your drinking glass or bottle).
Antioxidant filters remove fluoride, chlorine, chloramine, VOCs (the EPA has jus
t announced that they will be including the removal of VOCs in the Safe Drinking
Water Act) lead, mercury and other contaminants such as the recent newsworth it
ems chromium 6 and perchlorate, while water ionizers such as the $4,000 SD501 on
ly remove chlorine. I dont mean to pick on the SD501, as most of the other water
ionizers only remove the same contaminants. Dr. Hayashi refers to the water comi
ng out of water ionizers as dirty water. I think the term is a bit nasty, but you
cant deny the fact that water ionizers dont remove contaminants.
I think the policy that Enagic uses of giving the water away for a few weeks so th
at people can see the results for themselves is awesome and I wish it would beco
me a standard policy in the industry. However, the other companies dont have any s
oldiers on the street who are willing to go out and tell the story. Instead, the
other companies rely on people to put up websites criticising Enagic for its hig
h cost.
You are correct that there is no such thing as truly unbiased. My bias shifts ov
er time as I test and research more and more products. I started out being biase
d towards Enagic, then Tyent, then EOS, and now Alkastream. As you can see, it i
s more a matter of choice based upon information and testing. I cant help but be
biased towards the antioxidant filters, but that is because of the results that
they produce in terms of both natural ionization and filtration at a cost of $40
0. That doesnt mean that Im against water ionizersfar from it.
As far as to whether I will post a comment or not, I post virtually every commen
t that doesnt go over the edge. I even posted a comment from one sad fellow that
called me a cocaine addict. Anyone that knows me is aware of the fact that I dont
do drugs, I rarely drink any alcohol at all, and I work out between 5 and 10 ho
urs per week. People that care about their bodies and what goes into it, dont do
drugs. My personal vice is Nutella, a decadent combination of chocolate and hazeln
ut.
===
The Alkastream will definitely NOT do everything that a water ionizer will do. I
t does much more in terms of filtration, but it only provides healthy drinking w
ater while an electric water ionizer provides a much wider range of pH levels.

The goal of both systems is to produce free hydrogen, which acts as an antioxida
nt. Both systems produce micro clusters which are more readily absorbed. That is
where the similarity ends.
Electic Water Ionizers EWI:
Water ionizers run water across electrically charged plates that produce two str
eams of water. The drinking stream produces a mass of bubbles in your glass when i
t first comes out of the machine. The bubbles are hydrogen gas. When the benefic
ial hydrogen bubbles rise to the surface, the disappear as the hydrogen is lost
in the air. That is why I always try to drink fresh water within the first ten s
econds of it coming out of the machine.
EWIs can produce tremendous variation in pH because they are artificially forcing
ionization throught the power of the use of combining electricity with the avai
lable minerals in the water. The pH and ORP of water produced by an EWI will alw
ays return to the natural ionization level of the source water, which is depende
nt upon the level of minerals in the water. Here is a cool way to demonstate thi
s fact. You can use an EWI to create really low negative ORP such as negative OR
P. Run a few ounces of negative ORP water into a glass and use an ORP meter to t
est the level. Next, put the palm of your hand over the top of the glass to make
sure the water doesnt go flying out, and shake the glass vigorously for ten seco
nds. When you retest the ORP, you will find that it has dropped hundreds of poin
ts. The temporary or unstable ORP level will disappear as the water reacts to the mo
vement and the air.
EWIs dont remove much in the way of contaminants. Some remove more than others (Ju
piters Biostone filter being the best and Chansons tiny carbon block filter being
the worst). I believe that every EWI should have a pre-filter system (about $250
) because there is a lot of nasty stuff in our water that you cant see.
Antioxidant Filters AF (the Alkastream that you referred to)
AFs produce hydrogen naturally by running water over magnesium. This method of io
nization was discovered by Dr. Hayashi in the year 2000 when he was working for
the Japanese Institute of Water in an attempt to understand why water ionizers w
ere so effective.
The pH and ORP in the water produced by AFs is stable, which is why the ORP level w
ill sustain itself at a much lower level for long periods of time such as a week
. I have people reporting from all over the USA and Canada that ORP levels produ
ced by their Alkastream units maintain the ORP level for much longer than the wa
ter produced by an EWI. The reason for this is that the AFs put minerals in the w
ater and the presence of the minerals causes an continued coupling and uncouplin
g of the hyrogen bonds that join hydrogen atoms to oxygen atoms in a water molec
ule. It sounds a little scientific, but it is true as electrical reactions are tak
ing place in every piece of matter in the universe, including inside our bodies.
So, if you plan to take the water with you to work or to the gym, you will get
better ORP stability from an AF than from an EWI.
The AFs are a first and foremost a filter. In fact, I would rather have the filtr
ation from an AF than a $250 pre-filter system that I recommend for EWIs. The EPA
has recommended that the dioinizing resin exchange systems used in AFs is the nu
mber one way to get rid of the Chromium 6 (the Erin Brockovich contaminant) and
a myriad of other contaminants. In case you are wondering, the EPA ranked Revers
e Omosis systems second, but we all know that RO systems rob the water of the na
tural minerals that our bodies require.
Summary:
Purchasing a EWI or an AF should depend upon your needs. If you need acidic wate

r for skin or cleaning applications, or for really low ORP levels for strong det
oxing or fighting off cancer (Goolge Dr. Robert Youngs thoughts on this subject),
the an EWI is that answer. You will still need a $250 pre-filter system.
If you are looking for clean and safe drinking water, I recommend an AF. The rea
son I recommend an AF over a basic $250 pre-filter system is that the AFs also pr
ovide all the incredible health benefits of the drinking water produced by an EW
I and the incremental price difference is only $149 (derived from the selling pr
ice of an Alkatream at $399 less the $250 cost of a pre-filter system = $149).
===
If you just want the external benefits from acidic water in the 5.0-6.0 range, y
ou can also buy inexpensive bottled water. It offers the same pH and +ORP ranges
as creating it with an EWI would.
Additionally, EWIs will dump a variety of chemicals down the drain tube. If we c
apture and then soak our feet, rinse our hair or cook pasta in it, then Id assume
were absorbing those harmful substances as well. Bottled water isnt regulated, bu
t if we find a decent RO, we can be fairly certain its pretty pure. Which is what
my wife and daughter mist on themselves after bathing and I after shaving.
===
The Alkastream will clean the water better than a pre-filter imo.
The Alkastream will produce water produce water with a pH of 8.5 to 10.0 dependi
ng upon source water conditions and the flow rate of the water. Therefore, if yo
u are just looking for healthy drinking water, the Alkastream will do very well.
Its ORP is also much more stable so it will last if you dont plan to always drink
the ionized water right away.
If you want acidic water, you will need a EWI. In the alternative, you could buy
a Alkastream for purity and drinking water, and an acid machine such as an E2 S
pray made by Hyunsung E&E. The E2 Spray makes acid water via ionizing tap water
with salt (NaCl). The acid machines sell for about $300, which is overpriced by
about $100 imo based upon what they cost to make. When you start to add up the c
ost of an Alkastream ($399) and an E2 Spray ($299), you are at $700. A good wate
r ionizer costs about $1,500 and the pre-filter costs about $250 for a total of
$1,750.
If you run water through an Alkasteam, and then through an EWI, you will get cle
an water, but the pH will be very high (the ionized source water entering the EW
I would likely be well over 9.0), so you wouldnt be able to get acid water. The C
onventional Wisdom (see my recent article) of the water ionizer companies will b
e that the Alkastream wont be enough. They will be right if a person is looking f
or a wide range of pH levels. However, I have read statistics that EWI owners us
e their machines 30 times for drinking water for every time they use it for acid
ic water.
If you can afford the $1,750 for the EWI and pre-filter and you want to be able
to have acidic water, then buy an EWI and a pre-filter system. If you are just l
ooking for clean, safe drinking water, the Alkastream is a much more reasonable
choice. Different people.different needs.different choices. Thank goodness for tha
t, or we would all be just like me:)
People dont need a water ionizer if they pay attention to their diet. A water ion
izer provides and easy way to obtain antioxidants while hydrating. You would be
surprised how little good nutrition is in many of the foods that we eat.
===
So, the foods for health, exercise, vegetable juicing, enough sunshine, no meds,
outside air, love, some fortunate good genes, and now finally deciding on what
type of water to consume and I should be set and prepared to maintain good healt
h. Its just so incredibly amazing how diligent one has to be in deciding which wa

y to go on nearly all of these topics for health. The shame of it all is that th
ere are so many people writing books, promoting a certain diet, pushing a certai
n juice, or health plan, or whatever, under the guise of wanting to truly help p
eople, when in reality its the dollar that is pushing them. I honestly believe th
at most health care practitionerswhether allopathic or naturopathicgenuinely start
out with the noblest of intentions.but sometimes along the way.. And then the con
sumer becomes a kind of faceless victim.
This is why I appreciate blogs and sights like yours so very very much.
===
Once again, thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate them, especially when
there are people out there who are trying to hurt me for what Im trying to do.
You have absolutely grasped the essence of the ingredients for good healtheat wel
l, exercise, get outdoors, sleep, live and love, and hydrate.
===
A small number of people have made a lot of money selling Enagic products. Most
people never recover their initial costs. The math is similar for most MLM compa
nies.
===
You are absolutely correct when you give credit to the distributors, whether the
y be from Enagic or Ionways (the network marketers) or from other brands that ma
rket in the more traditionals sense. I hope to be able to do my part with this b
log. We simply cant leave the responsibility for the growth of the industry in th
e hands of the people that are currently dominating the industry in the States.
They have long forgotten the altruistic goal of helping others as the millions o
f dollars pile up in their bank accounts.
===
There is research being done on machines that are not based upon electrolysis. I
dont know when they will be available, or how effective they will be, or what th
ey will cost.
The plates are the most expensive part of a water ionizer if the the machine use
s 5 plates or more. However, the plates are not nearly as expensive as people th
ink, and they are a fraction of what Enagic reps tell their potential clients. T
here are a number of great machines on the market now that cost less than half o
f the price of an Enagic SD501 that you were referring to. It gets better, as th
e cost of machines are starting to come down and prices will drop even further a
s competition increases.
===
The price of water ionizers is finally starting to come down, which is a sign th
at the industry is beginning to mature. I expect (or at least I hope) that price
s of top quality machines will end up being about $1,500 in the near future with
the price eventually settling the the $1,000 range in the next couple of years.
===
If the unit that you are researching is an MLM product, my guess is that the pri
ce will be significantly higher than it needs to but it all depends upon the str
ucture of the MLM system. For example, I feel the prices of the Enagic machines
are outrageous. The high prices are a result of the fact that the units are offe
red to the sales team at very inflated prices AND the sales payout structure is
simply too generous. The Ionways MLM structure offers units to its MLM system at
lower prices and the payout to the sales team is lower than the Enagic system.
As a result, the prices of the Ionways products are still too high in my opinion
, but at least their products are priced closer to the products offered by the m
ainstream marketing methods. One of the companies in the States that offers wate
r ionizers via mainstream marketing methods has introduced a three tier payment
system which is essentially a mini MLM system. While they are attempting to buil
d a quasi- MLM system for their retail referral network, they continue to offer
excellent prices, by offering discounts rather than bumping prices. It is too ea
rly to tell if they will succeed, but I have to give them points for trying.

===
The first patent for water ionization has been awarded for a process call Direct
Disk Ionization.
Benefits are as follows:
1. Plates are no longer needed
2. Automatically adjust to source water ranging from RO to TDS of over 1000.
3. Measures incoming TDS and adjust power supply accordingly to provide selected
pH
4. Only 1 moving partlonger service life.
5. Contains 2 built in filters. 1st stage carbon and sediment, 2nd stage is carb
on and food grade calcium sulfite to ensure quality calcium is utilized.
6. Switch mode power supply works with voltages of 100, 110, 220 and 240. Only t
hing needed is adapter.
7. ORP can be produced with higher flow rate.
8. Water cooled power supplycan run continuously
9. Cleaning cycle only kicks in after water is producedwill not interrupt product
ion
10. Hot water will not hurt the machine
11. Water tight exterior. Has been tested while submerged in sink full of water.
12. Comes with reusable mineral port. Expensive 1 time use cartridges arent neede
d. Can use normal sea salt from grocery to create 11.0 or 2.5.
13. 8 pH selections from 4 10
Price 1999.99.
===
FYI -the MLM company that Gabe was referring to is Vollara, the old Ecoquest. You
are right on target with him on the overpriced units. Vollara first came out wi
th a unit last August and sold a bunch of them to there distributors. They didnt
work and failed in the field. Now they are now rolling out a new so called techn
ology: DDI Direct disc Ionization, which sounds interesting but then again I dont
believe in using folks as guinea pigs to see how long a unit will last. Things
need to be tested first then rolled out, but we know all about mlm hype
I agree with you about the plate race, as it is a joke. I spent a day with an engi
neer in Korea that has been in the industry for 25 years and makes the plates fo
r most of the water ionizer companies in Korea. He told me that using more than
5 plates doesnt really help except in hard water conditions. He also said that us
ing more than 7 plates for retail water ionizers is just a gimmick that adds not
hing of value. I trust his judgement, as he make all kinds of plates and wasnt tr
ying to sell me anything.
I have stated often that I think MLM organizations drive the price of water ioni
zers up far too high. Im grateful for the efforts of the actual individuals who p
ut out great effort to educate others, but lets get the prices down.
The Chinese are working hard to cut into the domination of the market by compani
es in Korea and Japan, and to a lesser extent Taiwan. I think the credibility of
the quality and safey of Chinese products will hold them back for a few years,
but they will definitely be a player in the future. Manufacturers of water ioniz
ers from Korea and Japan are working with Chinese companies in order to take adv
antage of lower labour costs and the almost total lack of concern for the enviro
nment. I would be wary of Chinese water ionizers for now, but I believe that it
is inevitable that they will eventually get on top of the quality issues and hel
p bring lower prices to the marketplace. The stranglehold as you put it, that Kore
a and Japan have comes from the fact that things got started in Japan and then t
he manufacturing transferred to Korea due to the fact that Koreans had lower lab
our costs and very good quality control. The work ethic and discipline of the pe
ople of both Japan and Korea is very impressive. The main Taiwanese company that
is manufacturing water ionizers started out as the repair and warranty centre f

or Toyo water ionizers (who make the Enagic machine), and they eventually starte
d producing machines themselves about ten years ago. Eventually, the manufacture
of water ionizers will end up wherever costs are low and quality control is hig
h.
===
I only wanted to make it clear to you that just like every other MLM out there t
he companies all misinform their people in terms of why people leave and how gre
at we are and you need to be loyal and then all the leaders start praising the o
wners and the leaders like they are Gods , I have ben there and done that and le
arned a lot
It would be refreshing to see MLM leaders and followers simply endorse the indus
try and stop bad mouthing each other and trying to rob each others distributors
claiming thier better and not just the company you refer to but all of them incl
uding Enagic ..
===
There was nothing announced by Enagic. It turns out that the man the mentioned t
he date (his name is Gabe) was referring to a product announcement of another ML
M company that is working on a new concept in ionizers. One of the readers of th
is blog filled me in on the details of the company. It could be interesting, but
I would not be a buyer of the item due to the fact that it should undergo a lot
of testing before it is introduced to the the market. The price of the product
has also been set at about $2000, which is likely in response to the price of ot
her machines as opposed to what the machine is really worth. Sooner or later, th
e prices will come down as the competition increases and the industry matures.
===
I am an Enagic dealer who purchased the machine 2 years ago and started the busi
ness about 1 year ago. I am doing good and almost 6A (I supposed you know what i
s 6A). But I must admit I feel uneasy, annoyed and confused for the past two mon
ths because those negative messages on the internet. I stopped selling the machi
nes since then and I want to make sure the things I am doing is righteous (becau
se a friend of my downline told him this is not righteous because overpriced, we
ll we are all Christians). The situation in our country is they dont browse on in
ternet very often and their English is not good enough to understand whats happen
ing and even they know something has happened in Enagic, they chose to ignore it
and believe what the company is telling them because they are earning huge mone
y. Actually I dont know what is happening in US Enagic, just saw some Sanatec web
site.
===
I have been receiving messages similar to yours from 6As and other top ranking En
agic representatives that are dealing with the similar issues. While everyone on
the internet criticises Enagic and their representatives, they fail to understa
nd that the representatives honestly want to help others. When Enagic representa
tive eventually learn the truth about pricing and how effective other machine ar
e, they get disheartened. It is important that you and others like you continue
to try to help others by sharing your knowledge.
>> 1. People keep saying that US$4000 is overpriced. Is there really comparable
products but charged half price? Our education told us that
our plates and technology are different and better to justify our price.
There are better products for less than half the money. Enagic, through its MLM
system has created a belief amongst their representatives that the SD501 is superi
or. I have 11 different kinds of water ionizers in my lab including the SD501. I
have tested all the machines many times under different conditions and I can te
ll you without bias and with 100% honesty that the SD501 is a good machine, but
others that cost half the money or less perform as well or better. The other mac
hines also are easier to use and maintain, and have much better features. The SD
501 is a 14 year old machine that was originally called the Pure Port II sold by
Toyo. Mr. Ochiro purchased the rights to the Pure Port 11 in 2001 and began mar
keting the product in 2004. I have to check back on the dates as I dont remember

exactly, but the dates are close enough. To put the SD501 in perspective, think
of it this way.a 2010 Hyundai Accent sells for $9,995 in Canada, which makes it t
he cheapest new car in our country. The Accent is technically far superior to a
1995 Mercedes Benz which was recognized as one of the best cars in the world in
its day. Technology improves over time.the SD501 has not!
My research indicates that the SD501 costs less to build than most of the leadin
g machine that are currently available on the market. You can sometimes see them
for sale on professional distribution websites from Asia. The the low prices wo
uld astound anyone that has been to an Enagic presentation.
>> 2. What is really happening in US Enagic, I heard that some distributors have
left but I still keep receiving meetings schedule and Enagic has just opened it
s office in Australia and Italy and the Philippines. It seems to me that it is b
ooming.
I cant see how Enagic can survive. Other products are superior and cost much less
. The internet means that information spreads very fast today. It is just a matt
er of time until everyone knows the truth. That is why Enagic is moving quickly
to other countries. The same thing happened with cigarettes. When the news about
the problems with health became public in the USA and many people stopped smoki
ng, the tobacco companies started focusing on foreign markets. McDonalds restaur
ants are another example. While kids still want to eat at McDonalds, many adults
in North America dont want to eat there anymore. So, McDonalds expanded to forei
gn countries.
>> 3. If you were to buy an ionizer, which will you choose ?
There are many good ones. My wife and I visted Korea in April to tour factories
to look at their products and speak to the engineers and business owners. I was
very impressed with a couple of companies, but this forum is not about supportin
g brands or companies. I gave you the specific information in the private email
that you sent to me. Suffice it to say that there are more and more outstanding
products available on the market. The prices in North America are far too high,
but that will change as the industry here matures.
4. Do you think Enagic will change its bonus plan so as to lower down the price.
Are those $2000 machines can perform the same function as SD501?
I dont have any idea about Enagics plans. All I know is that if they dont bring the
price of the SD501 down to $2,000 in a hurry, Enagic will be finished in Americ
a in the near future. If Enagic collapses, they wont be able to expand in other c
ountries as the negative information will spread quickly.
I have already answered the question about the performance of the $2000 machines
.
5. My father-in-law is a diabetic patient. His kidneys do not function well. Aft
er taking Kangen water, his constipation seems improved but recently he was aske
d to undergo blood washing and very soon he has to wash the kidney 3 times a day.
I dont know whether the water made him worse or not because the doctor said his p
osstasium is too high and kangen water carries high minerals. Is it true that pe
ople with kidney problems should not drink kangen water?
There are two schools of thought about ionized water and kidney patients. The ki
dneys act as a clearing centre for the body as they get rid of toxins. Water ion
izers make the kidneys work harder as the water creates the release of toxins. T
herefore, one school says that kidney patients should not use ionized water as i
t can overwork the kidneys. The other school says that the water will eventually
help eliminate the toxins and allow the kidneys to repair when the environment

of the body becomes more healthy.


My research tells me that every case of kidney disease is different. I think it
is very important for a kidney patient to speak with their physician before purc
hasing a water ionizer or drinking ionized water. The reason for this is based u
pon the fact that the physician would likely be aware of the severity of the kid
ney problem.
Im not a doctor, but my gut instinct tells me that kidney patients would benefit
from ionized water. However, it is very important to learn the status of the kid
ney malfunction first, and proceed very slowly with the knowledge and approval o
f a physician. Kidneys play a critical role in human survival and it is imperati
ve to put safety first.
I have witnessed and spoken to so many people that have benefitted from the wate
r. It almost seems like it is miracle water, but the obvious answer is that the hu
man body is the miracle. The water just allows the body to heal itself. It only
makes sense that the water could help with kidney function.
===
well as far as the Kidney issue, i think i can give you more information how thi
s ionized alkaline water can actually beneficial to any Kidney problem as long a
s they know how to use this alkaline water. you can write me at soipsave@yahoo.c
om and i will give you more facts and information you need to avoid the problems
associated to alkaline water and Kidney problem. i just can not discuss it here
since it might offend some people that dont even read their manual before using
their water ionizer. there are a lot of hidden facts that i can give you guys in
terested to know about these hidden facts associated in the pros and cons of dri
nking alkaline water w/o prper knowledge special if they dont read their manual m
ore deligently. so, email me guys if you want to know about these facts. its not
the water produced by these electrolysis technology, but rather people were not
educated properly about these pros and cons. remember the saying, on anything,peo
ple perish because of the Lack of Knowledge. email me guys and i will be glad to
share you what i have learned from my years of experimenting and comparing all t
hese top model alkaline ionizers. thanks again
(http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/ionized-water/praising-enagic-for-buildi
ng-awareness-of-kangen-ionized-water/#comment-2031)
===
Yes, the name of the company is Vollara, but the description shared by the email
er is a little off. Vollara is not the old EcoQuest You cant believe everything you
read on the web. EcoQuest went under due to poor business practices and warrant
y issues. Vollaras parent company, Aerus Holdings, purchased all of the intellect
ual property, technology rights, etc. The old leadership is no longer.
Since the purchase, significant changes have occurred which I wont go into for th
e sake of brevity. However, I will stress one item. Aerus also owns Electrolux [
as well as many other companies]. Electrolux is known for product quality, very
high manufacturing standards (.001% defect rate) and superior performance. Those
same standards now apply to Vollara technologies.
The emailer also indicated that our customers are guinea pigs. Vollara didnt just c
ome up with DDI last week and throw it together. This has been on the proverbial
drawing board for a long time. Aerus is not a MLM company and do not operate in
that sense outside of the Vollara division. The same traditional business practic
es, strategy, R&D, etc that they use across their family of subsidiaries apply h
ere as well. The only change is marketing. Vollara has been in the works for 10
years9 of that have been planning. Thats not guinea pig thinking and hype wont last
that long.
The reason Enagics international trainer left was because of extensive testing do
ne on this unit. Hes like you Robtested them all and found this one superior. In f

act, Vollara asked him to come test it because he was the best from the best com
pany. They let the fox in the hen house. The only way you do that is to know wit
hout a shadow of a doubt previous testing and development was accurate.
Last commentprice. In some ways this seems like a Utopian conversation. Kind of l
ike wind and solar energy someday powering the globe. You, and the emailer, argu
e that the price isnt low enough. What would you say is the perfect price? Is the
re another company in the market today who is lowering their price? I only know
of 1. Vollaras decision to charge $2,000 in a market that supported twice that wi
ll have huge impacts. Other companies will either have to follow suit or go away
. I hope millions of people reap the benefits from this decision, whether they b
ecome Vollara customers or not.
Your blog today on bottle water and oil [which was great by the way], brings up
another interesting point. Traditional ionizers use up a great deal of precious
metals and water during manufacturing. They arent exactly environmentally friendl
y. Our new Living Water unit uses a tiny fraction of previous models and require
s less energy to produce the water. Whats that worth?
===
well if you are thinking to buy one of these water ionizer, you must know that t
here are things that people were not informed about how to choose the newest tec
hnology in the market. first, as we all know they are all in the race of promoti
ng more plates are better. infact, it is the other way around. you can compare t
his to cell phones, laptop computers and car engines. so so know now. the lesser
plates the better as long as it can produce over -750 ORP or more w/in the rang
e of 9.5pH to 10.5ph w/c is the average drinkable pH. unfortunately, most these
water ionizers in the more plates are better will be creating problems in the In
dustry sooner or later because of the high uneccessary wattage these machines ar
e producing making it a non-users friendly to most ordinary people that dont even
read their manuals. so, i am willing to share you more knowledge not found in t
he internet and your eyes will be open to these hidden facts associated w/ the m
ore plates the better. WRONG! so email me at soipsave@yahoo.com and i will share
you that facts.
http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/ionized-water/praising-enagic-for-buildin
g-awareness-of-kangen-ionized-water/#comment-2032
===
I agree that more plates and more power are not an improvement. When Mary and I
visited Korea in April of this year, the engineers that we spoke to indicated th
at more than 7 plates and more than 300 watts of power is a complete waste.
The engineers stated that healthy people should never drink water with an ORP lo
wer that -400 and should try to stay in the -150 to -300 range. If the ORP is lo
wer than -400, it will actually act as an oxidant, like chemotherapy. Dr. Robert
Young recommends the use of very low (-800) ORP water as part of his suggested
protocol for cancer treatment.
The engineers recommended that machines should only produce the minimum amount o
f power needed to create the desired level of pH and ORP. Excess use of power wi
ll degrade the platinum coating on the plates that are there to protect the plat
es from titanium colloids.
Why is it that you want people to contact so that you can let them know your sec
rets. I have dedicated my life to educating others about the water and the machi
nes. I do so for free. This blog is about sharing information so that people can
learn. Im sure that readers would appreciate anyh knowledge that you care to sha
re and debate the merits of your information. This blog is being read by a lot o
f people now and I expect that if you share, you would be rewarded with business
that you would probably never have received without sharing.
===
It is great to hear that you are commited to helping others by selling the machi

nes. As you have found out, the machines are difficult to sell. Those of us that
have experienced the benefits of the water believe that everyone would want to
start drinking the water as soon as they hear about it. Unfortunately, it doesnt
work that way because of the high cost of the machines, and most people think wa
ter is water so why would they spend thousands of dollars on a machine that stil
l produces water. Im always amazed when Enagic dealers are successful, as they ha
ve the added burden of selling similar machines that cost twice as much as other
machine.
Im sure you can work something out with the lady you were speaking to, and if not
with her, then with another company. I would be happy to do what I can to help.
Im sure that you can find someone to work with, as peoplel like yourself are har
d to come by.
I visited the factory in Korea that makes the EOS machines when my wife and I we
nt on our fact finding mission. I didnt know much about the company before my vis
it so I was naturally skeptical, but I was blown away by the technology and the
commitment by owner of the company. The machines are equal to or in many cases b
etter than anything I have ever tested in terms of performance, and they are def
initely superior to all other machines from a technology standpoint. Coupled wit
h the fact that they sell for nearly $1,000 less that the other leading machines
on the market and $2,300 less than Enagic, I have to admit Im a big fan. The bes
t news of all is that we can be sure that the competitors will step up to the pl
ate with similar products in the coming months like they always do. Since the ma
chines literally cant get any better (I dont consider bells and whistles and other
marketing hype as improvements), I expect prices will start dropping, which is
great news for everyone.
===
I dont make recommendations on line because it can turn into a promotional thing
by people who sell the machines. If you contact me at my personal email, I would
be happy to help you. I dont make recommendations on the blog as I dont want a sa
lesperson to use the recommendation as an endorsement. I will ask you a few ques
tions about your needs and water, and then tell you what I think would best suit
your needs. You can then go online and shop for the best deal.
I checked out the website that you provided. It looks to me like the product it
is a very expensive remineralization filter. The site doesnt offer any details on
the product, so it is impossible to tell what is in the filter. I suppose you c
ould call the company, but I have tried that before with different products and
the response is always the same oh, we cant tell you that as our formula is propri
etary. That resonse always gets the same response from megoodbye.
There are many products on the market that add minerals to the water (reminerali
zation), which in turn raises the pH of the water. However, these products are n
ot anything like a water ionizer based upon electrolysis.
There are a number of water ionzers available that are priced under $1,000. They
all work in good source water conditions, but they are typically underpowered a
nd only have one to three plates. Eventually, I hope we will see the best machin
es priced under $1,000 as competition and awareness increase.
===
There are many products on the market that add minerals to the water (reminerali
zation), which in turn raises the pH of the water. However, these products are n
ot anything like a water ionizer based upon electrolysis. (http://www.waterfyi.c
om/alkaline-water/ionized-water/praising-enagic-for-building-awareness-of-kangen
-ionized-water/#comment-1714) So electric water ionizer NOT only "pull" higher p
H, right?
===
There is some difference between solid plates and mesh plates. The mesh plates (
which are not really mesh at all), provide more surface area if the plates are t

he same size. The additional surface area allows for more contact time between t
he water and the plates, which allows form more ionization to take place. I pref
er the mesh plates, but the entire topic is greatly overblown by the advertisers
. If you want better performance (more ionization), just slow the water flow dow
n. Of course, the companies dont bother to tell the public the facts.
===
mesh plates and solid plates will do the job and sometimes hypes are created on
that. one thing i can say is that find a 5plates producing less than 100 watts w
ater ionizer producing all the types of water from 2.5pH acid all the way to 11.
5pH and can produce a high -ORP like -700plus w/in the 10.5pH , that is the best
way to go w/ no artificial added enhancing support to do the job of their Elect
rolysis plates. that i would say a good and most advanced machines you should co
nsider out there and it is safe from these white sediments normally found on hig
h wattage machines. just email me at soipsave@yahoo.com and i will share you tho
se hidden facts.
http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/ionized-water/praising-enagic-for-buildin
g-awareness-of-kangen-ionized-water/#comment-2035
===
Hey there, this is quite an interesting dialog. I have friends in both Enagic an
d Vollara. One thing I have found out is there is an Enagic machine that is only
$2380 and one that is $1280 retail. Also, if you buy three Vollara machines at
a time, they are only $1000 each. They use calcium sulfate in their filters to b
oost mineralization and thereby increase ionization effectiveness. I have done s
ome research on this so-called DDI technology and cannot find anthing. What I ha
ve found is that the disc is no more than a round plate. There is only one plate i
n their machine.
===
NO WATER, NO LIFE! KNOW WATER, KNOW LIFE!
chantal julien
===
I use a lot of different water ionizers as I currently have ten different kinds
of machines in my house.
I have a Tyent Turbo under my kitchen sink that is located on an island. I insta
lled it a long time ago and have never had any need to change it.
Im testing a convertible style water ionizer that I have plugged in on my back ki
tchen counter. The machine is very flexible because you can hook it up to a tap
like a regular water ionizer, or you can can simply pour water into the top of i
t like a coffee pot. I like the machine becasue it works very well and the suppl
ier intends to price the unit under $800, which is much lower than other water i
onizers. The only downside that I see to the unit is that it has an inferior fil
ter that is slow, and doesnt remove the taste and odour of the cholorine to my sa
tisfaction. Therefore, I just took the filter out. I have a pre-filter system un
der my sink which provides me with much better water than I would get from bottl
ed water and at a fraction of the price.
Im also testing a product called the Alkastream, which is hooked up to my kitchen
tap with a diverter valve. The Alkastream doesnt need to be plugged in as it is
a hydrogen machine. It works by running water through a sophisticated filter. Th
e filter removes fluoride, chlorine, lead, mercury, VOCs and a bunch of other na
sty stuff. The machine produces excellent pH and ORP values for drinking water w
hich means it offers the most important property that people are looking for. Wh
en Mary and I were in Korea in April of this year, the manufacturers were all sh
owing us their hydrogen machines and telling us that they were the new future of
the water industry. . We were skeptical about the machines but so far so good.
The best part is that the distributor from Australa tells me that the machine wi
ll sell for under $400. Now were talkin. The only downside to the machine that I s
ee is that it doesnt produce acidic water. Apparently only 1 in 30 users of water
ionizers use the acidic water, but Mary loves it for her skin.

Down in my lab, I have the EOS Platinum, an Enagic SD501, a Tyent 7070, 2 types
of Jupiters, and 2 types of Chansons.
The bottom line is that all the machines work. I would be happy with any one of
the machines that I have. Each machine has its own special features and its own
drawbacks, but they all work. The further along I get in my research, the more c
onvinced I become that the industry really needs a good price war to drive price
s down and flush out the marginal players.
I intend to start doing video reviews of all of the machines this month. The rev
iews will be focused on the features of the machines and how easy they are to ho
ok up and use. I wont be doing pH and ORP testing because the numbers always chan
ge as the source water conditions change. In addition, the numbers are way too e
asy to manipulate for someone who knows what they are doing.
===
http://www.waterionizerexpress.com/
Thanks for stopping by. I checked out your website. It is great to see people th
at carry different products because every customer has unique requirements.
Perhaps you and I can have a discussion about what you have written about ORP be
hind the scenes. My opinion about ORP and its relevance has changed as my resear
ch continues.
===
Marvello is made by Toyo in Japan. When Enagic got started, they bought the the
Pure Port II brand from Toyo.
Water ionizers all work, especially if you have good source water conditions whe
re the water is slightly hard. If you have been happy with your Marvello for 7 y
ears, I wouldnt change anything.
===
The chemical that everyone talks about in a negative way is the bleach that Kangen
provides to customers to use if they want really strong alkaline water. It is t
he properties of the bleach that cause the really high numbers. Enagic says that
the bleach never comes in contact with the water as it is placed in a separate
compartment, but if you understand how ionization actually works, of course the
bleach has to come in contact with the water. The silly part of all of this is t
hat you virtually NEVER need water that powerful.
Kangen equipment is as good as the other electric units and is definitely more d
urable if you are dispensing commmercial quantities on a regular basis. The Kang
en machines are massively over priced, but if that doesnt matter to you, then go
for it.
I believe the natural water ionizers (non-electric) are healthier for people tha
n the electric machines and they cost less than 10% of what an Enagic SD501 cost
s. Unless you have cancer and want to use really strong water in lieu of chemoth
erapy or as a means of rapidly ridding the body of the chemo treatments, I would
recommend a non-electric unit.
===
I started drinking ionized water 5 years ago. The water changed my life dramatic
ally for the better. The acid reflux that I had been battling for 15 years (abou
t 7 of those years on medication) disappeared in a week. My severe osteoarthris
that I had been battling with meds for a couple of years disappeared in a month.
Even my allergy to ragweed which caused me flu like symptoms every fall disappe
ared. I was hooked. Based upon my incredibly personal experience, I started sell
ing water ionizers in the summer of 2008.
===
Please email me privately (contact@waterfyi.com) with your telephone number and
a convenient time to call. I will call you and ask you a number of questions bas
ed upon your source water and your priorities. Once you have decided which machi

ne is best suited to your needs, I will direct you to the appropriate supplier w
ho will help you.
It is important that only people with a current diagnosis of cancer, or those re
covering from cancer take advantage of this. To that end, I will be asking parti
cipants to share their stories both before and after drinking the water.
===
Back in the 1920s, the health claims made by the baking soda companies were very
similar to the claims being made today by the water ionizer companies. Baking so
da (sodium bicarbonate) is a mildly alkaline salt that will raise the pH of wate
r thereby contributing to the neutralization of acid. When an alkaline drink or
water is introduced to the stomach, the cells in the stomach wall produce HCl (h
ydrochloric acid) to balance the pH level. When the acidic HCl is produced, a bi
carbonate byproduct is also created, which enters the small intestine. So, the n
et effect is 1) add alkalinity to the stomach 2) the cell walls of the stomach p
roduce acid to put the stomach back into an acidic homeostasis 3) the byproduct
formed when the acid is created is a bicarbonate which enters the small intestin
e 4) the human machine is working like it should.
When we eat acidic foods and drink acidic beverages, the stomach isnt required to
produce acid, which means that required bicarbonates are not produced. This all
might seem confusing on the surface, but it is actually really simple.
As a side note, my Dad (a physician raised on a wheat farm in northern Saskatche
wan) drank a glass of water with a spoonful of baking soda every day of his life
. He never prescribed drugs unless it was an emergency. Hmmmm.seems like his old s
tyle doctoring was pretty insightful after all.
So, why dont we all just reach for the box of Arm & Hammer in the back of the fri
dge every day? It is not a bad start, but there is more involved. While the acid
/alkaline balance is definitely part of the health equation, it it not the sole
factor. I believe hydrogen is the key to human health because it is both the bui
lding block of human cell growth/maintenace, and it is the ultimate antioxidant.
Water ionizers produce free hydrogen. It gets really complicated at this stage,
so I will stop here before I embarrass myself. The understanding of water has s
tumped some of the best brains in the world after a lifetime of study and resear
ch. I will keep plugging away, but Im just a beginner.
===
Hi Rob: This is my first 24 hours on the Tyent water. Im so excited, and very tha
nkful. I do not claim the dis-ease, but with the growing lumps and small pain in
the breast- I am realistic.
I want to share my experience with the Kangen machine(501). It seems that a numb
er of people in Atlanta area have this product. I could not afford $3980 in one
lump sum, but a down payment and 10 monthly payments was more affordable. I was
told that there was no interest involved. After 3 1/2 weeks, I did the math: the
re is interest. The Kangen office representive used another term: transitional f
ees. I sent the machine back to the company with an explanation: against my reli
gious views. To the credit of ionized water, the arthritic pain in my hips almos
t vanished within 3 weeks. To the discredit of Kangen distributors and the compa
ny: They lost a customer who will warn others who prefer to avoid interest.
===
On a personal note, I have debilitating arthritis before drinking the water. It
took about 4 weeks for my arthritis to go away completely. After drinking the wa
ter for 3 1/2 years, I can go several days without my arthritis coming back, but
why would I?
It doesnt surprise me that there are fees associated with a payment program becau
se somebody has to set up and administer the program. As long as a company clear
ly states what the costs are, it is up to the individual to decide if the terms
are acceptable or not. Hidden costs, or costs that are not clearly explained cre
ate enemies.

===
I suggest that you check out http://www.waterhealthcare.ca to see which machines
they carry. The price for cancer patients is half of the retail price for all i
onizers. My wife has decided that she is going to have set prices for each machine
for cancer patients as soon as she can get her website designer to make the cha
nges. The new prices may be somewhat higher on certain models because a 50% disc
ount actually results in a loss for some of the sales, which is not sustainable.
Check out http://www.waterhealthcare.ca as they offer half price water ionizers
to cancer patients
===
As Chairman of the American Anti-Cancer institute, I highly recommend that every
American should go to the AACI Website and order and read the book :Killing Canc
er Not People. The AACI may be Googled. Of their Top Ten Recommended Natural Prod
ucts, the Number One recommendation is Ionized Alkaline Water.
http://www.americanaci.org/
===
BUT.do Enagic and its distributors need to make so much profit? If people are wil
ling to pay, I dont have a problem.
I talk to lots of Enagic distributors. I cant offer any hard numbers, but I can s
ay with great confidence that Enagic distributors present the idea to a far grea
ter number of people than those that actually buy an Enagic machine. Im also OK w
ith that. But what about those people who want a good machine but cant afford it
or are unwilling to pay $4,000 for a water machine. Enagic offers less expensive
machines, but from what I have experienced, Enagic distributors spend a great d
eal of time promoting how amazing the SD501 machine is and how much better it is
than any competitive product. The process leaves prospective customers believin
g that they should buy the SD501 or nothing. Im not making this up. I have also h
eard from lots of people who have been told by their Enagic representatives that
they are better off with no machine that buying a competitive product. Oops! Th
at is where the line gets crossed between honesty and trying to make a buck.
I have tested lots of machines (including the Enagic SD501) and they all work. Im
fine with Enagic distributors believing their product is the best. In fact, it
is necessary because there is no way that they could sell their machines at the
prices they charge if the distributors didnt believe in the product. However, the
re is the rest of the world to consider. Other electric machines offer the same
health benefits for about half the money. For those on a even more restricted bu
dget, the natural water ionizers offer the same health benefits for about $300.
I dont care which machines people buy, as long as they drink the water. I dont hav
e any problem with someone paying $4,000 for the education, support, and a high
quality machine. I can also understand someone choosing to pay $2,000 for a diff
erent brand of electric water ionizer, or $300 for a natural water ionizer. As m
y kids say: Its all good.
===
Every patient should always consult with their managing physician. My understand
ing is that with dialysis, a personal consultation is extremely important becaus
e every kidney patient is different.
In general, drinking alkaline water creates detoxification. That is great for ev
eryone except dialysis patients, who have kidney issues that may not be able to
handle the additional stress.
If you doc gives you the go-ahead to drink ionized water, I would be happy to po
int you to a dealer that can help you out. I would be very interested to follow
your progress while on the water.
===
Enagic Independent Distributors will give the water away for free for 30 days or
longer, they cannot sell or ask for payment for water jugs, etc. its against com
pany policy. I received water for 2 yrs. No other company will do that. Hmmmm. W

hy?
Also if you run more than 2 1/2 gallons of water a day thru other machines it vo
ids out the warranty. What if you have a large family or want to share the water
?
A Dr. Carpenter gives over 4oo gallons of water a day to his patients and hes had
his machine for about 3 yrs and its still running like champ with no problems. T
hats the equivalent to over 25 yrs of service for a family of four.
===
If there is anyone here who is interested I must share with you and them, that T
he Gerson Therapy is some of the most interesting, inspiring and hopeful informa
tion I have ever come across, showing in their years of treating patients absolu
tely incredible success rates at treating many different diseases.
I say if anyone themselves has cancer or has a family member who has cancer, you
need to do this research for yourself. And all of the information is practicall
y free.
Go to YouTube to watch free documentaries talking about this nutritional therapy
:
Just type in gerson in the youtube search box.
In order of how I would recommend watch these: Dying to have Known, The Gerson Mira
cle & The Beautiful Truth all worth watching.
===
Check out http://www.waterheatlhcare.ca as they offer cancer patients water ioni
zers for half price. I financed the company many years ago in exchange for them
helping me with my cancer patient plan. In the last few years, they have helped
hundreds of cancer patients get water ionizers at or near wholesale prices. The
company doesnt carry Enagic machines because Enagic will only allow their distrib
utors to carry one brand and they would never allow discounts. As it is, I had t
o fight with every company over the products that Water Healthcare carries as th
ey were all afraid the company was going to destroy their retail pricing models.
I have to admit that the Enagic SD501 produces more molecular hyrdrogen that the
other electric water ionizers that we have had tested. It has been found that m
olecular hydrogen is the key to providing health benefits to more than 80 human
diseases (check out http://www.molecularhydrogeninstitute.com ). After saying th
at, the same lab that tested the electric water ionizers found that the $59.95 p
itcher that I had tested ( http://www.vyvwater.com ) produces more molecular hyd
rogen than the Enagic SD501 when the filter is new and still produces as much or
more molecular hydrogen as other electric water ionizers throughout the life te
sting of the filters).
===
We use the VYVwater pitcher at our house. I assume that other pitchers are good
but I havent tested them and I dont know what the media is in the filters of the o
ther pitchers. I did have the VYVwater pitcher ( http://www.vyvwater.com ) teste
d for its ability to produce molecular hydrogen and the results were better than
I expected and better than most of the electric water ionizers that have been t
ested.
It has been proven in over 300 scientific studies that the molecular hydrogen pr
oduced by water ionizers is beneficial to more than 80 human diseases. While ver
y few people are talking about water as part of a strategy to combat cancer beca
use it is such a hot topic, I can tell you that I have seen some pretty amazing re
sults over the years. After saying that, dont think for one second that the water
is a magic bullet. If someone treats their body well (proper food, liquids, sle
ep, and diet) as well as keeping their spirits up, it is amazing how the body ca
n heal itself.
===
Unfortunately, our kitchen was being renovated until this past week. When the gr
anite counter was finally installed, I added an under the counter natural water
ionizer.
I installed an under the counter Vitev Flo ($399) in our kitchen. The flow rate

is about 1 gallon per minute which is really fast. I have never tested a water i
onizer that produces so many hydrogen bubbles. At first I was concerned because
I dont like the hydrogen being wasted as the bubbles rise to the surface and diss
ipate into the air. However, it turned out I didnt need to be concerned as the te
st results are awesome. I have come to the conclusion that electric water ionize
rs are obsolete now that the low cost non-electric machines perform so well. Im s
ure some people will think they are getting the best when they pay $4,000 for a ma
chine, but they are deluding themselves.
I was predisposed to use the Ultra($995) because I believe it provides the best
man made drinking water in the world. However, we are incredibly fortunate to li
ve in a place where they have a brand new state of the art water processing faci
lity. They dont use use fluoride or chloramines and they use minimal chlorine bec
ause they have a sophisticated ozonation system. Since our source water is so go
od, I was able to install the lower cost Flo unit.
===
The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest his patients i
n the care of the human body, in diet, and in the cause and prevention of diseas
e.
.Thomas Edison
===
Now, to your question about whether the Alkastream would do the same job as an e
lectric machine. The Alkastream (or any other non electric water ionizers that d
epend upon natural mineralization) does provide the same or likely even better h
ealth benefits on an ongoing basis. I prefer the natural ionization method of th
e antioxidant/non-electric ionizers for ongoing health maintenance. However, if
you are certain that you have cancer, I would recommend an electric machine beca
use of the ability of the machine to create unnaturally high pH and unnaturally
low ORP numbers. The process of electrolysis creates an instantaneous and short
lived spike in the pH and ORP levels which if consumed immediately before the hy
drogen bubbles escape is thought by some, such as Dr. Robert Young, to be natures
equivalent to chemotherapy.
So.if you are convinced you have cancer and want a machine, I would recommend an
inexpensive electric machine.
===
Another website that I frequently go to to read (as there is a lot of stuff ther
e to read) is http:www.watercure2.org DR. Batmanghelidj was a smart doctor, and
understood the salt water connection to health. I use Redmond Real Salt.
===
Any movie worth watching has to have the threat of death in it.
===
I have been drinking water from a Tyent 7070 Turbo and from an Alkastream since
last fall. I also drink from an Enagic and EOS and Chanson and Jupiter machines
depending upon where I am in my house or from a Hybrid when Im at my cottage.
===
Ian Blair Hamilton alkaway
Id like to ask Dan exactly what scientific research he is quoting from that says
electrically ionized water prevents cancer. Ive been researching it for eleven ye
ars and although Ive seen some good outcomes from cancer Ive seen some bad ones to
o. My overall conservative opinion is that alkaline water or antioxidant water t
hey are identical in important parameters helps but does not of itself heal or p
revent.
===
I have also seen some remarkable outcomes in regards to cancer treatments with i
onized water. However, I have also unfortunately witnessed a number of situation
s where people who started drinking ionized water at later stages did not make i
t.

I believe that ionized water helps. I also believe that diet and exercise and re
moving stress helps. I believe that sunshine helps. I believe that healers help
and some standard medical treatments help. All too often, we witness the fact th
at none of the above help.
I think that all that any of us can do it make decisions to improve the odds. Im
a big believer in the fact that prevention is the operative strategy. I didnt sta
rt making wise health decisions until I reached my fifties. It is always better
to start at any time than to never start at all. However, I have been encouragin
g my kids to make healthier decisions right from the startand they have been list
ening thank God.
Water plays a huge role in everything Human! It is intuitive that we should be d
rinking the best water possible.
Perhaps someday we will begin to understand the hows and whys of water. I have b
een researching water now for three years and I can honestly say that I know vir
tually nothing. I read the research papers from the leading scholars from the to
p research facilities in America, and universally, they say that they cant begin
to crack the code to understanding water. At this point in my life, I just have
to have faith that water is good. The better the water, the gooder (yes, gooder
is one of my favorite words) it is!
===
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0JU03CGFrU
Messages From Water Water Crystals In Motion Dr Masaru emoto
===
Water: The Great Mystery - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbDJr6M0uPY
===
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUGVkmmwbk
Burzynski: Cancer Is Serious Business (Part I)
===
https://youtu.be/1CX2XtfASJg
Burzynski: Cancer Is Serious Business - Part II
===
I agree water is important, but I would never recommend distilled water for drin
king unless it was remineralized.
===
I assume you are referring to the Toyo company in Japan who started it all. They
sold one of their 19 products to Enagic in 2002. Enagic spent two years buildin
g their very sophisticated MLM system before entering the market place in 2004
There is no evidence to support that mesh disintigrates faster than plates.
Titanium from plates is very likely to be exposed. The machines like Enagic with
a lot of power are the most likely machines to wear platinum off the plates.
Enagic machines are good. If Enagics machines worked better than other machines,
it would be easier to swallow their outrageous prices.. Unfortunately for Enagic
and its customers, the reality is that they are not better than other machines.
In fact, a very strong case can be made that the natural water ionizers which s
ell for about $400 are superior when it comes to providing health benefits. Im ha
ving VYVwaters new sports water pitcher($59) tested as I write this message. My h
ope is that it produce far surperior results to the Enagic SD501 when it comes t
o producing molecular hydrogen.
===
I have some great news for you because I personally know an awesome lady in the
state of Washington who drank ionized water throughout the entire chemotherapy p
rocess when she was undergoing treatment for breast cancer. She came through wit
h flying colours while many around her had their bodies ravaged by the treatment

s. She started into chemo because of pressure from her physicians and her family
and she made the decision herself to drink ionized water during her chemo treat
ments. The result of combining both western and eastern medicine was a stunning
success.
The ladys name is Cheryel Watkins and she has dedicated her life to helping other
s with cancer. She joined a company that sells water ionizers and I believe she
is responsible for the sale of about 3,000 water ionizers in the past couple of
years. She has helped countless individuals and she has helped train dozens of d
ealers and hundreds of affiliates with her incredible passion and patience.
Despite her great success in the water ionizer industry, Cheryel has been frustr
ated with the business end of things. She has indicated to me a number of times in
the past that she would like to work on her own so that she can focus on the hel
ping end of things without the corporate pressure. Definitely my kind of girl!
Cheryel has placed a water ionizer in the oncology ward at the hospital where sh
e received her treatments. While acceptance of such a voodoo product was slow init
ially, the entire department is now drinking the water, including the physicians
. I understand that she is going to be a guest speaker later this month at a can
cer symposium.
Cheryel didnt condemn the ways of western medicine. Instead, she embraced it as a
necessary part of her healing process. She listened to the physicians who told
her that ionized water would be counter productive against the chemotherapy, so
she didnt drink the water at first. However, once her treatments began, she chose
to drink the water to make her feel better and it worked. In fact it worked so
well that she went throught the entire process without missing a day of work.
I cant begin to describe how much respect I have for this woman. Instead of being
bitter or suspicious, or succumbing to the wisdom of others, she did her research
, made a decision on her own, and won. She is a proud woman, but still humble, c
ompassionate, and as real as it gets. The word hero is tossed around far too often i
n our society, but Cheryel is a true hero in every sense of the word.
I will contact Cheryel next week and see if she will share her personal story on
the blog so that she can tell it in her words. I dont endorse any brand or compa
ny in the water ionizer business, but if you want to talk to someone who can walk
the walk as opposed to talk the talk, its Cheryel.
===
Im sure that Cheryel will talk to you. She is the only person I know that is as p
assionate about the water as I am. She always takes time to talk to people even
though she is a busy lady. I will pass your email address on to her.
===
It is possible to die from water intoxication but it is extremely rare. When it do
es occur, it usually happens to infants who are drinking formula that is overly
diluted, or in athletes who participate in strenuous activity for long periods o
f time such as marathons.
I have worked with a number of Olympic athletes. They train for many hours on a
daily basis and it is crucial for them to replace the water they lose from train
ing. One athlete that I communicate with often drinks 8 liters per day. I also c
ommunicate with a number of personal trainers who also conduct classes at gyms a
nd they typically drink 4-6 liters of water per day.
If you watch some of the videos from Asia about the benefits of ionized water, y
ou will see that the physicians have their patients drink 6 to 8 liters per day.
A friend of mine that had breast cancer drank 6 liters or more per day while she
was receiving her conventional medical treatment.

===
I dont have any statistics for you on the ability of the body to process ionized
water or regular water. What I can share is that I have performed the following
experiment many times with people:
1) Many of us have experienced a bloated feeling after experiencing chugging a 1
6 oz glass of water. It gets worse as you drink more as anyone who has had an ul
trasound (where you are required to drink 40oz or 48oz of water before the exami
nation).
2) I have had many people, including myself drink 48 oz (about 1.5 liters) of io
nized water within five minutes as an experiment
3) Nobody that I have tested this on has experienced any feeling of bloating whi
ch always surprises them. The only notable side effect of the test that everyone
mentions is that they feel energized.
The above tests were in no way done under scientific research conditions, but th
at doesnt change the facts.
===
You are not alone with your dilemma. It is a classic dammed if you do and dammed
if you dont situation.
The medical doctors dont know what to do about cancer so they rely on methods tha
t didnt work 60 years ago and they dont work much better today. How can survival r
ates only be 5% better today than in 1950 when we put a man on the moon 40 years
ago and heart replacements have been taking place for a similar amount of time.
To anyone that opens their mind even a little bit, it is easy to see that curin
g cancer is not a viable option under the current system.
So what do you do? I would get anyone with a cancer diagnosis to stop consuming
sugar immediately. I would also get them going on an alkaline diet and drinking
alkaline water. This may sound easy but it isnt because the patient already has a
lot to deal with. I believe love and compassion help despite any lack of scient
ific proof. I also believe that there are healers out there that can help. The t
hings I have witnessed and talked to people about over the last 5 years seem imp
ossible but Im not making this stuff up.
===
It is important to understand that it is the process of electrolysis which chang
es the properties of the water as the water comes in contact with the electrical
ly charged plates. All of the brands are good, because they are all based upon e
lectolysis. Some brands produce superior results but doesnt neccesarily mean that
price should be used as a guide for quality or results.
===
Once chemo treatments begin, the conventional wisdom is to stay away from antiox
idants, because chemo actually creates free radicals in an effort to poison the
cancer. Ionized water would therefore be working against the chemo, as the water
helps the body heal.
As you can see from the story above, the water can produce incredible results. I
know of several cancer success stories where conventional medicine failed, and th
e brand is irrelevent, as various brands were used. Claims of best in the world ar
e claims that are made as a result of marketing, rather than fact.
Some experts like Dr. Young believe that cancer patients should be drinking wate
r that has very low negative ORP such as negative 800. Others believe that the i
deal level is in the negative 180 range, which is the ORP level of the juice of
an orange that has just been plucked off a tree. Still others believe that the i
deal level is negative 10 to negative 15. I have not been able to find any clear
evidence that indicates any one of the theories is more correct that the others
. Over time, we will be able to collect more data which should help settle the a
rguement. What everyone does agree upon is that negative ORP is beneficial in he
lping the body remove acid.

All ionizers work. You can achieve higher ORP output with more powerful machines
. There are several good ones to choose from at much more affordable prices that
the unit mentioned in your story. Even the five plate entry level machines are
capable of producing strong negative ORP readings that are very beneficial.
Please get your friend on the water asap. Its the water, not the brand that makes
the difference.
===
Glad to see someone offering an unbiased approach. Most of the articles Ive read
end in how you can purchase their products so I must admit to being relieved at
not finding that here.
===
You are correct that Im not able to give advice. It is incredibly unfortunate tha
t our society is set up so that the people that do or should know (the doctors)
cant or wont tell people the truth. If they are aware of alternatives, they are af
raid to share the information. Going against the FDA or the College of Physician
s is a career killer. The doctors know that the standard protocols for cancer ar
e all about money as opposed to cures, and that is a tragic thing.
===
I believe in ionized waterfrom every brand. The Enagic machine is a good machine,
but the person that told you that the healing effects only come from a Kangen m
achine is lying to you. If you call the head office of Enagic in America, they w
ould never make up such a lie. Im a big fan of the hard working distributors of E
nagic, but I detest the lies that some of their distributors tell the public in
order to sell their machines.
All of the water ionizers work. The Kangen machines are work horses that will pr
oduce a lot of water every day. For people that simply use the water for their f
amily, the other machines will work just as well.
Im a big fan of antioxidant filters (non-electric water ionizers) for achieving a
nd maintaining good health. The reason that I prefer the antioxidant filters is
due to the fact that they ionize water naturally instead of electrocuting the wa
ter. As I dig deeper and deeper into studying water, I learn that water has a me
mory and other fascinating details.none of which work well with electrocution.
In defense of electric water ionizers, I do believe that they are the best for c
ancer patients. The reason for my belief is that they are capable of producing v
ery strong negative ORP if you drink the bubbles. If you want to learn more abou
t the healing properties of strong negative ORP, I refer you to Dr. Robert Young
. Dr. Young has been bought off by Chanson which is why he endorses their product,
but all the powerful machines work, including the Enagic machines.
===
All the machines work. Anyone that bothers to do even a little homework will und
erstand that. If people dont care how much they spend and cant be bothered to look
around, they can pay $4,000 for a machine and get on with their lives. I dont ca
re how much people spend as long as they are drinking the water.
I for one am grateful for all the effort that the Enagic/Kangen dealers put into
spreading the word. At the same time, I have to agree with you that the false c
riticisms that many Kangen dealers use about competitive products is annoyingand
ethically wrong.
People should be drinking ionized water. In order for that to happen, the water
has to be affordable to everyonenot just the pretty people. No matter how much publ
icity is created, most people cant justify spending thousands of dollars on good
drinking water.
I will just keep plugging away with my blog.educating people about the benefits o

f the water.trying to get the prices down so that people can afford the water.shed
ding light on the bad guyssupporting the good guys.
===
I will address each of your points as you have written them, as it is easier to
follow.
* Ionized water is nothing more than sales fiction
This statement is simply not true. It is very simple to prove that stable H20 ca
n be separated into two streams of water, one rich in H+ ions (acidic), and the
other rich in hyroxyl OH- ions (alkaline)
* Pure water (that is, water containing no dissolved ions) is too unconductive t
o undergo signficant electrolysis by water ionizer devices.
This statement is true, as pure water cant be ionized. However, in nature, pure w
ater rarely if ever exists. Calcium carbonate is a natural substance that is abu
ndant in most source water in Canada and the USA, and it allows for ionization t
hrough the process of electrolysis.
* Pure water can never be alkaline or acidic, nor can it be made so by electroly
sis. Alkaline water must contain metallic ions of some kind most commonly, sodiu
m, calcium or magnesium.
This statement is also true, and is essentially a follow up of the previous stat
ement.
* The idea that one must consume alkaline water to neutralize the effects of aci
dic foods is ridiculous; we get rid of excess acid by exhaling carbon dioxide.
This statement is also true, as the human body can get rid of acid through a pro
per diet. The body actually gets rid of acid through feces, urine, and to a less
er extent sweating and breathing.
While the body can get rid of acid on its own, it is important to understand tha
t the human body is designed to consume a diet of appoximately 80% alkaline food
s and beveridges. Unfortunately, the average Canadian or American consumes a die
t that is approximately 97% acid. Imagine if you tried to run your internal comb
ustion engine car using 97% water and only 3% gasoline. The care wouldnt even sta
rt. Water is not the only solution to good health, but it is a wonderful way to
start.
* If you do drink alkaline water, its alkalinity is quickly removed by the highl
y acidic gastric fluid in the stomach.
Again true, but you are missing the point of ionized water. It is not the alkali
nity of the water that increases the alkalinity of the body. Ionized water is bo
mbarded with negative charges that immediately allow the water to become bio-ava
ilable. It is the negative charges that allow the body to get rid of the positiv
ely charged acids stored in cells. That is why people that drink ionized water t
hat is too strong when they first start experience headaches. The headaches are
a result of the body detoxing.
* Uptake of water occurs mainly in the intestine, not in the stomach. But when s
tomach contents enter the intestine, they are neutralized and made alkaline by t
he pancreatic secretions so all the water you drink eventually becomes alkaline
anyway.
Again true, but it takes approximately four hours for the body to process regula
r water in order for it to be bio-available. Ionized water is immediately bio-av

alable and it completely processed within thirty minutes. When a person drinks a
couple of litres of water each day, the process is very effective.
* The claims about the health benefits of drinking alkaline water are not suppor
ted by credible scientific evidence.
Again true, at least in North America. The studies simply have not been conducte
d here, but they will. One of the tragic aspects of a health care system control
led by profit driven pharmaceutical companies is that it is prohibitively expens
ive for small companies to play the game. In the meantime, I will continue to pu
blish research about how and why the water works, and hundreds of true stories a
bout individual cases where the water has helped people. I cant change the system
, but I have dedicated the rest of my life to informing people about the water.
* There is nothing wrong with drinking slightly acidic waters such as rainwater.
Body pH is a meaningless concept; different parts of the body (and even of indivi
dual cells) can have widely different pH values. The pH of drinking water has ze
ro effect on that of the blood or of the bodys cells.
Again, your statement is true, because water is only part of the equation.
Every leading researcher and author in the industry would disagree with your sta
tement about being meaningless. From a personal experience, and from talkng to h
undreds of people that have used the water, I can tell you that your statement i
s not true.
* If you really want to de-acidify your stomach (at the possible cost of interfe
ring with protein digestion), why spend hundreds of dollars for an electrolysis
device when you can take calcium-magnesium pills, Alka-Seltzer or Milk of Magnes
ia?
Again true if you want to de-acidify your stomach. The question is, why would yo
u want to de-acidify your stomach. The acidity level at any given time in your s
tomach has nothing to do with the pH level in the fluids of your body.
* Electrolysis devices are generally worthless for treating water for health enh
ancement, removal of common impurities, disinfection, and scale control. Claims
that ionized waters are antioxidants are untrue; hypochlorites (present in most su
ch waters) are in fact oxidizing agents.
On what evidence do you base your statement that electolysis devices are general
ly worthless for treating water for health enhancement. Have you tried the water
? Have you spoken to hundreds of people that use the water. When I make statemen
ts about the benefits of the water, I do so based upon personal experience and t
he experiences of hundreds of others that have kept an open mind and personally
experienced the benefits.
===
My job is at a medspa where I help others look good through skin care & weight l
oss. I inform them that skin is a window to within! And weightloss will happen w
hen the bodys pH is alkaline! (Adjust your food & water)
Also cleansing is very important. The website http://www.doctoryourself.com can
offer research done with vitamins & minerals & how they benefit the body. Search
iodine &how the body needs it.
===
I agree with your doctor about the importance of an alkaline diet when it comes
to psoriasis, and many other health issues. If you have access to a water ionize
r, you can drink the alkaline water and apply the acidic water (the second strea
m of water produced from the waste water line) directly on your skin. The result
s can be outstanding. When I was in the water ionizer business, I directed many
people to the water that had great results with their psoriasis and exzema.

A quick internet serarch of alkaline food chart will provide you with many differe
nt alkaline foods.
===
Ignore the retail prices of electric water ionizers. You can buy great machines
for as little as $995. In the alternative, you can buy Antioxidant Filters, whic
h provide the same health benefits plus they remove the contaminants from the wa
ter for as little as $329
The companies will all honor the warranties despite their threats. It costs them
very little to do so and they can then sell you filters for years which are ver
y profitable.
Stay away from leasing as the cost is horrendous. You can buy an Antioxidant fil
ter for virtually the same price as the down payment of an electric water ionize
r.
I dont mean to pick on Tyent USA, but they just make it so easy. Many of the othe
r companies partake in the same foolish behaviors. No wonder the electric water
ionizer industry is in such a mess
===
If you purchase an electric water ionizer, you can expect to pay in the neighbor
hood of $2000 to $4000. The electric machines will remove chlorine, but not much
else. In order to remove fluoride and other contaminants, you will need a pre-f
ilter that costs about $250. If you do your homework, you can purchase the elect
ric water ionizer for $1,000 or less, but people will try to scare you into thin
king there is something wrong if you dont pay the high retail prices.
If you purchase an antioxidant filter the costs $329, it will provide the same h
ealth benefits from the drinking water that is provided by electric water ionize
rs. In addition, the antioxidant filters will remove fluoride and many other con
taminants. The antioxidant filters are perfect for people that want to maintain
good health or want to improve many of the problems that ionized water has had s
uccess with. However, the antioxidant filters dont provide acidic water for clean
ing.
Choosing the right product is always a personal decision based upon ones needs. I
dont care what machine people buy as long as they start hydrating.preferably with
ionized water.
===!
===!
===!
What the public doesnt understand is all the technical mumbo jumbo used by the wa
ter ionizer industry. Nobody cares about pH and ORP and Hydrogen. They also dont
care about plates and power and SMPSs etc. In other words, the public doesnt care
about the features. What the public does care about is how the machines will mak
e their lives better, and that they are affordable. The entire water ionizer ind
ustry seems to have missed the point.especially the part about the affordability.
http://www.waterfyi.com/alkaline-water/ionized-water/dont-shoot-the-messenger-wa
ter-ionizer-industry-update/
===!
===!
===!
Hi, Rob, your comments as usual are on the money with to my mind one exception.
You mentioned that people arent willing to buy $4000 water ionizers when in fact
Kangen USA are far more successful in selling their most expensive unit that any
other company up to 5000 a month, which is far beyond their nearest competitor.
You mentioned that people want to know what a water ionizer can do for them, and
I agree completely, but we need to look at the reality. Ive sat in on those naus

eatingly long MLM telecalls and there is only one thing ever being sold, and its
not water ionizers; its wealth. So although you and I would hope that the public
only wants to hear what Water Ionizers can do for them, its a fact that the most
successful WI co doesnt sell water ionizers. It sells wealth.
Now I know that this is unpalatable to the majority of industry people, but its s
till a fact of the industry. Its like the alien that lands in America and speaks
Hindi because his probes showed that hindi was the most spoken language on Earth
. here we have a similar situation; we can talk all we like about what the indus
try should be but the predominant language spoken in ionizer-ville is wealth, no
t health. and as we both know, this is so because Kangen have evolved a selling
model that exposes NEW people to water ionizers and closes the deal before they
can even compare. The water party is the most successful and emulated sales mode
l in the industry, but even that has a false premise at its heart. It isnt a wate
r party. its a money party. And dammit, it works, supported by a large dollop af
competitor slander and methods that simply wouldnt work in another form of approa
ch.
I think we are in an amazing time of flux. People are contracting inwards and ha
rdly even leave thir homes at night. They get their info from the TV or the net.
they read less than ever before, they are sedated more than ever before and the
y are more scared than ever before. The task at hand is finding how the water io
nizer industry may reach these people. They are out there in their millions and
they all need our product, but the infighting, competitor-crushing techie talk m
ethods used by so many in the industry are frankly, childish, or at best, a case
of what weve always done. We need to acknowledge that the Kangen guys had the grit
to get out, call meetings and present their case. Forget the rest if it. They s
ucceeded in informing more new people than any other company, and there is a les
son there somewhere for other companies.
Certainly lower pricing is a good goal, but here in Australia we are far from ca
pable of retiring after eleven years in the business. Our margins support our st
aff, and our year-ends are good because we work hard pursuing what we believe in
. Reduced prices have helped us, especially with the AlkaStream and we are selli
ng 5 times as many AlkaStreams as we are selling electronic systems. But my poin
t is that if a call for lower pricing doesnt line up with the bottom line of the
many small businesses that get their living from water ionizers (they CANT reduce
prices or they will go broke) then the answer is not to work harder, but to wor
k smarter.
In this economy and environment, EVERYTHING needs reviewing and either jettisone
d or given a smart pill. Small ionizer business has to let go of the cliff edge
and hope he or more likely she, can actually fly.
===
You pointed out the success of Enagic as they sell up to 5,000 units per month.
I agree that they are making a lot of money which makes them a huge commercial s
uccess. However, I dont measure success with money anymore. To me, a huge success
would be sales of a million units per month. It would take 10 years of sales of
1 million units per month to put a machine in every home in America. Now that w
ould be a success.
The low cost antioxidant filters offered by your company and others provide the
same health benefits as the $4,000 Enagic machine. They also provide far superio
r filtration. I dont know how you are going to do it, but you must find a way to
get that information out to the public. It will be difficult to do because you a
re not paying out thousands of dollars in commissions. That means you will have
to rely upon retailers who are comfortable working with smaller numbers and larg
e volumes. I will keep writing about the benefits of the water and how to obtain
affordable units.
===

Ianyou are exactly right. Pairing your comments with Robs is probably the best com
mentary on the industry I think Ive ever read.
Enagic has an overpriced average ionizer. But what they really sell is $$$. Ive l
ost track of the number of Enagic dealers Ive talked to who have sold between 0 a
nd 1 ionizer. They believe in their product, but they cant sell it because most p
eople wont spend that much for their health unless its a last resort.
What most dealers dont realize, is that while they may have purchased their SD-50
1 because it worked and it made them feel good. The real reason they bought it w
as because they thought they could use it to make a lot of $$. Which is why ther
e is so much anger and emotion across the web anytime someone questions their io
nizer. Their connection is deeper than just a product.
Most of us dont get angry when someone questions the type of phone or car or hous
e we buy. But change the question to why we spend more than we should have on th
ose things or why we have credit card debt, or why we dont give to charity and th
e response is way different.
$$$ is emotional.
Those who are most successful in Enagic, or any MLM, are the ones who are most c
apable of persuading others. They give the best presentation, they are the most
comfortable in front of crowds, they look good and others in the room want to be
like them. You could pull any of the top sellers in those organizations and plu
g them into any product line and they would do well.
Enagic is successful because most of the people who buy an ionizer dont realize h
ow hard it may be to change WHO they are before they attempt to sell what they h
ave.
Until they do, companies who market other alkaline, ionized water systems will c
ontinue to have potential customers contacting them all because a friend has been
giving me this water which I really likebut I cant afford it.
===
Geezyou Alkastream guys are on the ball today. I suspect that a lot of Enagic peo
ple who are truly interested in helping others, as opposed to making this all ab
out the money will end up working with you at some point in time. It wont be easy
for you to get them onside because there is a lot of brain washing to be undone
. I have no problem if people buy Enagic machines, as long as they drink the wat
er. For those that cant afford $4,000 or are unwilling to spend that much money,
your filters offer an excellent low cost alternative.
===
You can also reach me on Skype at robthewaterguy
===
I agree with you that something must be done to restore the credibility of the w
ater ionizer industry. I have noticed that as an industry, we have some self-inf
licted wounds these things NEED to change:
1) You cannot ionize water molecules. You can ionize the MINERALS in water, the
electrodialytic process used in ionizers does produce molecular dissociation whi
ch produces hydroxyl ions that immediately combine with the healthy minerals in
alkaline ionized mineral water to produce mineral hydroxide compounds This is PR
OVEN, I have industry white sheets that prove this
2) Ionizers do NOT work by electrolysis The correct term is Electrodialysis. The
re is a BIG difference between the outcome of electrolysis and electrodialysis.
The difference is that electrodialysis used an ion-permeable membrane which sepa
rates alkaline/acidic water. You cannot make alkaline ionized mineral water thro
ugh electrolysis alone.

3) We must stop advertising Japanese mythology Much of the claims about the wate
r produced by our machines (such as Kangen Water) are based on mythology. Until
this stops, the industry will continue to receive well-deserved criticism.
4) All articles/advertising that make health claims MUST include references to t
he ACTUAL studies they are based on. Saying There are studies that without referenc
es to those studies is impugning our credibility as an industry.
5) As an industry, we must stop making claims about the water that contradict ba
sic laws of chemistry and physics. For example, as Dr. Stephen Lower states: The
term ionized water is meaningless to chemists. Hes right, the correct term is Alkali
ne ionized mineral water. It is an accepted fact in chemistry that water can con
tain ionized minerals.
I hope you will join me in calling for greater scientific integrity in advertisi
ng. Ionizers do a lot for our health, but no-one will believe us unless as an in
dustry we learn to speak with the utmost of integrity.
===
It is amazing how many people experience weight loss when they start drinking th
e water. However, weight loss is definitely not a universal thing, as many exper
ience only minimal or not weight loss at all. I wish I could explain why so lose
weight while others dont, but I have no clue.
A significant percentage of people experience increased energy. That one is easi
er to explain as the body is receiving more oxygen and nutrients are absorbed mo
re efficiently.
Great to hear about the improvement in diabetes. Do you have any numbers to shar
e with us? If anyone out there is going to start drinking the water to combat di
abetes, please get your glucose level tested by your physician before drinking t
he water. After you have been drinking the water for awhile, a return visit for
a checkup with your doctor will show the doctor the improvement. This request is
selfish on my part, but we have to wake up the doctors. There is nothing like r
eal test results from their own patients to get it.
I have spoken with a number of people who developed Diarrhea when they first sta
rt drinking the water. The reason this occurs is that people drink too much ioni
zed water, or water that is too strong, faster than their bodies can handle it.
Most people are very acidic and when you start drinking the water, the body star
ts releasing acid and the kidneys are not able to expell the acid fast enough. T
he usual symptom is headaches, but for people that go too fast, flu like symptom
s or diarrhea can result. The good news is that within three to four days, the k
idneys catch up the issues go away.
I have also spoken to a few people that have chronic diarrhea that dont do well o
n the water. Generally, this happens with older people, and women in particular.
The solution is to bring the pH level down until the problem goes away. I have
found that a pH level of 8.0 will do the trick, but even that can be too strong
for some. In that case, I suggest people drink the purified water and supplement
with a low pH level water.
===
I purchased a Ionize unit and been drinking the water for about 31/2 weeks. Sinc
e then i notice to be getting constipated. Is this a side effect?
I have only come across your situation a couple of times out of the hundreds of
people that I have talked to about the water. The situation is usually reversed
as people can develop diarrhea if they drink too much water or drink water that
is too strong in the beginning.
When I have investigated further into the couple of cases of constipation develo

ping, it has turned out that the people were taking their medications with alkal
ine water. The manuals for every company are very clear that you are supposed to
take medications with the pure or filtered water only as the alkaline water can a
lter the absorption rate of the drugs. It is recommended that you wait at least
half an hour up to one hour after taking medication before you start drinking th
e alkaline water again.
===
The Olympic athletes that I support only drink 6 or 8 liters at the most per day
when they are training hard.
===
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpVIFfMegN4
tappes 2009/02/09/price-comparison-by-lauri-tauscher
===.
Solutions:
You can buy a basic water filter such as a Brita for about $20, which is really
inexpensive. Brita wins on the replacement filters that should be changed every
few weeks and the annual cost of replacement filters is about $100. The primary
function of the Brita filter is to remove the taste and odor from chlorine.
What Brita and other filter companies dont want you to know is that the taste and
odor from chlorine will evaporate out of your tap water if you leave the water
in a pitcher on the counter or in your refrigerator for a few minutes. The nasty
taste and odor cause by the chlorine that is introduced into your water supply
by your municipality to kill bacteria and maker your water safe, cant evaporate whe
n it is in the water mains and pipes that feed your house, but as soon as your w
ater is exposed to air, nature will take care of the problem. Try it yourself an
d you will see.
You can also install a basic under counter or even above counter charcoal water
filter canister filter for about $70 from your local hardware supply store. The
annual cost or replacing a single canister charcoal filter should not be more th
an $20 per year.
I think every household should have a minimum of a 3 canister under sink (or abo
ve counter for those who rent and are not allowed to drill a hole in their count
er top) pre-filter system. The systems can be customized to be effective in remo
ving specific contaminants such as fluoride and chloramines and other substances
found in your source water. The systems can be purchased for about $250 includi
ng the filters. The annual replacement cost of the filters should be about $120.
Many websites advertise more expensive filter systems, but for most situations,
they are unnecessary.
The new Antioxidant Filter systems at a cost of $400 provide better filtration t
han the three canister pre-filter systems. The annual replacement cost of the fi
lters is about $100. However, the really cool thing about the Antioxidant Filter
s is that they are much more than a filter system, because they also deliver the
same health benefits of as good water ionizers that cost $1,500 to $4,000. That
means that you are effectively paying an additional $150 for an effective produ
cer of alkaline ionized water. It seems to me that the decision to buy one of th
ese systems is a no brainer if you care about the quality of the water that you d
rink and your health.
===
It has been estimated that nearly half of bottled water is simply tap water that
has been filtered. You can purchase a simple charcoal filter that can be insta
lled under your kitchen sink that will do the same thing or better for a fractio
n of the cost.
===
\\\
Asosiasi Pengusaha Depot Air Minum

Asosiasi Pengusaha Pemasok dan Distribusi Air Minum Indonesia


http://www.ylki.or.id/
http://www.perlindungankonsumen.or.id/
\\\
===
google.com default
https://www.google.com/search?%7Bgoogle:RLZ%7D%7Bgoogle:acceptedSuggestion%7D%7B
google:originalQueryForSuggestion%7D%7Bgoogle:searchFieldtrialParameter%7D%7Bgoo
gle:instantFieldTrialGroupParameter%7Dsourceid=chrome&ie=%7BinputEncoding%7D&q=%
s
===
There are no rules, but there are guidelines to drinking alkaline water. Every c
ompany that sells water machines recommends that you dont ingest
medications with alkaline water. You can drink alkaline water half an hour befor
e taking the medication, or an hour afterwards, but not while actually
swallowing the medication. The timelines for drinking alkaline water with medica
tions are not carved in stone. The theory behind refraining from ingesting alkal
ine water while swallowing medications is that the presence of alkaline water ma
y affect the ability and timing of the stomach to break down the medication so t
hat it can pass through to the intestines. Pharmaceutical companies assume peopl
e will be drinking tap water when they prepare a drug, so they assume that the d
egradation rate will be somewhat consistent with the parameters of what is consi
dered normal. If you alter the pH level of the stomach with alkaline
water, you may alter absorption rates or absorption ability. If a medication has
a time release component, then drinking alkaline when the medication is swallow
ed may alter the timing of absorption.
In my opinion, alkaline water should produced by a water ionizer should be consu
med as fresh as possible, as in the first ten seconds it is produced, so Im not a
big fan of storing water. The reason for that is that the bubbles you see in th
e water when it first comes out of a water ionizer machine are hydrogen bubbles
and they disappear in a few seconds as they rise to the surface and dissipate wh
en they contact the air. According to Dr. Hidemitsu Hayashi, MD, who I consider
to be the worlds leading authority on alkaline water, it is the free hydrogen you
can see in the fast escaping bubbles that are the key to producing good health.
That being said, ionized water still contains negatively charged hydroxyl (OH-)
ions that are are capable of reducing (or donating an electron, or energy) othe
r molecules, so they are also beneficial.
If you need to store alkaline ionized water, the ideal conditions would be to re
move any contact of the water with air and to store the water in the dark, or in
a dark container. The key is to drink the water fresh, but if you cant drink it
fresh, store it properly. Even in the worst case, drinking water is a thousand t
imes better than drinking sodas or other carbonated or sugar based drinks.
===
I have never heard of anyone that has performing strength tests before and after
drinking ionized water. I know of various people that have performed before and
after tests with excellent results for glucose levels (diabetes), blood pressur
e, cholesterol levels, and pH levels of urine and saliva, but nobody has reporte
d specific numbers to me regarding strength. I have had great feedback from the
Olympic athletes that I supported in terms of lactic acid recovery and endurance
improvement, but the feedback has all been anecdotal.
===
I believe the first thing to consider when choosing a water ionizer is the condi
tion of the source water. The reason for this is that best drinking water is cle
an and healthy (they are not the same thing). If you have really good source wat
er in Malaysia (clean and safe) supplied by a municipality, you can ignore the cl
eaning factor from consideration. If you cant depend on safe and clean source wate
r, you will need a Reverse Osmosis system to clean the water. The problem with R
O systems is that while they clean the water, they make the water unhealthy. If

you do need a RO system for cleaning purposes, you will need to remineralize the
water.
The company that I help out is Vitev (http://www.vitev.com) and one of the main
reasons I agreed to help them is that I believe their Ultra ($995) produces the
best man made drinking water in the world. If that is too expensive for you, the
n you can buy a RO system locally and then get Vitevs Remin filter as an alternat
ive.
If your source water is clean, then you can start looking at water ionizers. The
y all work so you really cant go wrong. My preference is the natural water ionize
rs for several reasons including the fact that they are very affordable. If some
one in your family has cancer and is undergoing chemo treatments, I recommend an
electric water ionizer.
===
I recommend electric water ionizers for cancer patients because they can generat
e really strong negative ORP when the water first comes out of the machine (you
must drink it right away as the energy is only temporary). I dont recommend that
anyone other than cancer patients drink the strong water.
Water ionizers dont remove fluoride (despite what they claim). A Reverse Osmosis R
O system is required. The problem is that electric water ionizers dont work with R
O systems because the RO systems take the minerals out of the water and water ca
nt be ionized without minerals. The solution is to combine a RO system with a nat
ural water ionizer. Check out Vitevs Ultra as that is what the machine does.
===
As per Anne Marie Helmenstine PhD:
***Your stomach secretes hydrochloric acid, but the pH of your stomach isnt neces
sarily the same as the pH of the acid! The pH of your stomach varies, from 1-2 u
p to 4-5. When you eat, the stomach releases proteases and hydrochloric acid to
aid in digestion. By itself, the acid doesnt really do much for digestion, but th
e proteases that cleave proteins work best in an acidic environment or low pH, s
o after a high-protein meal, your stomach pH may drop to as low as 1 or 2. Howev
er, buffers quickly raise the pH back to 3 or 4. After the meal has been digeste
d, your stomach pH returns to a resting level of about 4 or 5. Your stomach secr
etes acid in response to food, so first thing in the morning you can expect a sl
ightly acidic stomach pH, but not an acidic level representative of pure hydroch
loric acid.***
I agree that Enagics Kangen water gets absorbed with minimal bloating, but so doe
s every other brand of water ionizer, including the natural alkaline pitcher tha
t I have been testing and experimenting with. By the way, the $50 $60 pitcher is
producing great tasting water with a 9.5 pH and -300 ORP and is still going str
ong after 3 months of heavy use. Im told that the annual filter costs will be abo
ut $50 $70.
IQdo you really want to go there? Perhaps if you did your homework, you would sto
p embarrassing yourself.
I agree that Acidic water is good for cleaning. In fact, electric water ionizers
were originally created for cleaning purposes. All the Japanese medical claims ar
e for the cleaning function.not for the drinking water. While acidic water is a b
enefit, industry statistics (which I cant verify as I gleaned the information fro
m talking to the various owners in the industry) indicate that only 1 in 30 peop
le that own water ionizers use the acidic function with any regularity. If someo
ne does want acidic water, you can buy acid water producing machines for about $
200. You can also get a Hybrid for $549 that will produce a wide range of pH lev
els including strong acid and alkaline water.

I have owned an Enagic SD501 and tested it hundreds of times against the Tyent,
EOS, KYK, Chanson and even against a natural water ionizers. The Enagic SD501 ne
ver produced superior results to any of the other machines. I made a video of th
e test that I included in an article on my blog for you and everyone else to see
.
===
To clear up any possible misunderstandings for future readers, I stumbled on to
Robs blog in search of some clarity from the confusing world of alkaline water an
d water ionizers. There is so much conflicting and biased information and views
out there that it was refreshing to find a person who writes an unbiased website
that does not have ads and links all over it. Since before and after finding th
is blog I did my due diligence by reading books/articles/operation manuals and w
atching documentaries on the topic of water. Through my own personal research an
d education I have come to the conclusion that there still isnt the perfect water
system that provides everything I am looking for, even the one I am currently u
sing. Purification is first on my list since there are a lot of contaminants tha
t comes along with tap water. Dont believe me; get a water report from your city
source. R-O provides the best purification but I am against the water waste that
results from those systems. Since I wanted to go natural, as opposed to electri
c, I had to choose between Alkasteam (now Vitev) and Aqualiv.
My stance on electric water ionizers still is the same when I wrote my previous
comments in Mar and Dec 2012. Even though the high negative ORP and the ability
to sanitize my house chemical-free with low pH water and soak my veggies clean o
f pesticides with high pH water was very appealing to me, I chose against an ele
ctrical water ionizer for several reasons. First, while reading the manual for t
he Life Ionizer product I was interested in purchasing, I was concerned that chi
ldren under a certain age should never drink above Level 2 water. There were many
other safety precautions, warnings and specific instructions regards to proper o
peration of the machine, and with two kids at the time aged 9 and 5 under my car
e, I didnt feel comfortable with that machine in my house. Since you mentioned Ka
ngen water and 2.5pH water, I feel it is safe to assume you are referring to wat
er coming from an Enagic electric water ionizer so I looked up that manual. On p
age 6 of Enagic Kangen SD-501s manual it states, Make sure sufficient ventilation
is provided to let out harmful gases that result from Strong Acidic Water. In th
e worst possible case, your life would be at risk if the gases filling your room
has no way out at all. And on page 11, Do not install in a unventilated room for
chlorine gases produced through electrolysis are highly toxic. And later on the s
ame page, Poisoning can result due to the gases given off during operation. For my
family, the water system and water it produces has to be kid-friendly. Life Ion
izer, Enagic, or any other electric water ionizer does not fit that bill. The ot
her reasons I chose against going electric are water waste, maintenance, and wan
ting alkalinity from mineral ionization, not electrocution.
===
Ionized water is water that has components with an electrical charge which means
that it could be acidic or alkaline. When you introduce water to alkalin metals
(Na, K, Mg, Ca) the water will naturally ionize.
Healthy water is both clean and charged (ionized). Consumption of clean water (a
s in pure water) is not healthy in the long term because your body will compensa
te for the lack of Ca and Mg by absorbing them from bones, teeth, thyroid etc.
If you remineralize your water to a pH of 8, you are definitely doing what water
ionizers do because that is exactly what natural water ionizers do. In fact, by
mineralizing your water, you are likely making the water more healthy than elec
tric water ionizers.
I challenged Stephen Lower many years ago. I also had others contact him when he
refused to talk to me after refusing to do any testing at my expense at his lab
oratory. Stephen Lower (I dont acknowledge his Dr. title out of disrespect for th

e man because he has personally dissuaded thousands if not tens of thousands of


people from benefitting from the water without having the courage to do any pers
onal research) personally admitted that the water probably works but he would neve
r admit it until is shows up in the New England Journal of Medicine.
While criticizing Lower is easy, I respect chemistry. The problem with Lowers che
mistry is that while pure water cant be ionized, no water in nature is pure. It i
s the presence of alkali metals that allows ionization. That is why it is so muc
h more difficult to ionize soft water (Vancouver, Seattle) than hard water (most
places in Canada and the USA).
Lower could have done the world a lot of good by letting people know that water
with alkali minerals present can be ionized. I would have respect for Lower if h
e had used his understanding of basic scientific formulas to challenge the numer
ous unsupportable pseudo science claims spread by the water ionizer companies. U
nfortunately, Lower has never showed any scientific interest in learning how or
why water ionization work. Instead, he sits back (he is an old guy who has been
retired for about 20 years) and lets somebody who understands Search Engine Opti
mization update his Keywords etc to keep him on the front page of Google searche
s for water ionizers. I could get into the ugly details about Lower, but the onl
y thing that is important is the science.
I found 14 different studies listed on the PubMed website (the library for the N
IH) a few years ago when I was challenging the false claims of the RO industry.
The best site that I know of now is the http://www.molecularhydrogeninstitute.co
m website run by Tyler Lebaron. Tyler is an impressive young man studying at Bri
gham Young University who had previous training from leading water researchers i
n Japan. Tylers site lists hundreds of studies by various categories.
===
The MHI website is amazing. I have spent many hours talking with and emailing wi
th the owner of the website. He is an impressive young man.
In theory, any system that creates alkaline water should produce H2 to some degr
ee. Most electric water ionizers produce 0.1ppm to 0.2 ppm. The Enagic SD501 pro
duces 0.4 ppm which may explain why it seems to have more passionate followers o
ther than the financial aspect of selling a MLM system. I had the $59 pitcher th
at I created tested and it produced as high as 1.0 ppm (5 to 10 times higher tha
n most electric water ionizers and 2.5x times higher than Enagic) but it average
d about 0.3ppm over the testing phase of the filter. The testing facility couldnt
tell me why the results varied over the course of testing. My guess is that the
water that travels across the mixture of media that I use gets exposed to diffe
rent media for different amounts of time. Either way, the $59 pitcher (which pro
duces 9.8pH and -50 to 700 pH depending upon source water) provides users with e
xceptional value (yes, that was a blatant plug for the pitcher which you can see
at http://www.vyvwater.com). I dont think there is any way you can predict how y
our RO + remin filter system performs until someone tests it and it isnt cheap :(
If I had to guess, my bet would be that the Ca doesnt do much while the Mg does
a lot simply due to the fact that Mg is much more reactive with water than Ca. I
have learned (the hard way by getting it wrong so many times) that there are ma
ny factors affecting performance. For example, the amount and size and shape of
the Mg counts. The other media that is mixed with the Mg also has an effect. I h
ave spent a small fortune testing this stuff and it is a wonder than I have any
hair left on my head as it is an annoying process. I guess that is why I got off
ended a while back when you inferred all of this stuff is the same because nothi
ng could be further from the truth. If I had to give you any advice, I would enc
ourage RO users to pour the water from their systems into the pitcher as it is a
much cheaper way to go that to replace Calcite or Corosex filters every couple
of weeks.
I cant answer your question about saturation points as I dont understand it myself

. I know that my pitcher tested out with a max of 62% saturation and averaged be
tween 12.5% and 25% depending upon when the readings were taken. What I think I
know based upon my research is that the molecular hydrogen dissipates as time pa
sses. I wrote an article a few years ago called Drink Your Bubbles based upon my o
bservations and now I have a scientific explanation of why the bubbles are impor
tant. The electric water ionizers lose their H2 really fast (I assume it is due
to the violent electrocution process) whereas the natural water ionizers (like y
our system) maintain the saturation of H2 for a longer period of time.
I wish I could be more specific about H2, but Im learning as I go. What does impr
ess me is that now we have an explanation of why the water works instead of havi
ng to deal with the BS psuedo science that the electric water ionizer companies
have been writing about for years.
===
Vitamin pills come in many different formulations. The natural water ionizers ty
pically add magnesium, potassium and sodium. Some natural water ionizers also ad
d calcium but calcium is readily available in most diets and tap water.
What you wont get from vitamins (or mineral drops in large enough quantities) is
the production of molecular hydrogen. I will be writing about the importance of
molecular hydrogen shortly. Scientific studies have shown that the molecular hyd
rogen produced ionizing water is responsible for provide therapeutic health bene
fits for over 80 human diseases. Molecular hydrogen provides the answer of WHY i
onized water works.
I have been working with natural water ionizers for about 3 or 4 years now. They
work. I have been creating products for other companies for free during that ti
me as I was tied up with a non-compete agreement with Tyent USA. When my non-com
pete agreement expired last September, I created a natural water ionizer in the
form of a pitcher (see http://www.vyvwater.com). I think people with fridge filt
ers would benefit from pouring the water coming out of your fridge filter into t
he pitcher to remineralize the water and produce molecular hydrogen.
===
To the best of my knowledge, all of the electric water ionizers companies use ti
tanium plates with a platinum coating. They all do this because when you shoot e
lectricity through the plates, microscopic metal colloids break off and the huma
n body doesnt like titanium. I have never heard of a water ionizer hurting kidney
s unless too the Ca or Mg content is higher than the kidneys can effectively pro
cess.
It sounds to me like your Kangen rep is regurgitating the same old, same old compa
ny crap that has been going around forever, which amounts to stories that sound
good but are not based upon facts.
There are now about a thousand VYVwater pitchers out there that have been used for
Beta testing. Beta testing is a term that can best be described as preliminary
advance testing to get feedback from users. Based upon my testing and the feedba
ck that I have received, the filters last about 3 months for almost everybody. I
know one guy that has really bad source water and his pitcher lasted 2 1/2 mont
hs. He was really pleased with the 2 1/2 month life of the filter because his ol
d system required the filters to be replaced every six months but he had to chan
ge them after two months. While the company recommends a life of 2 to 3 months,
I would wait the full three months unless you notice a difference in the taste o
f the water.
If you want to test the pH of the water, you need to use pH reagent drops becaus
e none of the strips work very well. The drops typically cost $10 to $12 plus sh
ipping which is expensive. You could take a sample of the water to a pool and sp
a store for testing if you dont have pH drops. I have found that the pH test resu
lts for the filters remain very good throughout the life of the filter.

I would change the filters every three months unless you notice a change in the
taste of the water.
===
It is best to drink the water as fresh as possible at all times. The reason for
that is that when water becomes ionized, hydrogen atoms get shed off as a byprod
uct of the reaction of water to magnesium. When hydrogen atoms bond together, th
ey form molecular hydrogen (H2) which forms a gas and will rise to the surface o
f the water and evaporate. Since molecular hydrogen has been found to be the sou
rce of so many therapeutic benefits, it makes sense to drink the water asap when
it is first made before the hydrogen atoms bond together and evaporate on conta
ct with air. The natural water ionizers are much more effective than electric wa
ter ionizers because ionization process continues due to the presence of alkali
minerals in the water and because the natural process is gentle and the formatio
n of the H2 is slower as opposed to the electrocution process used by electric w
ater ionizers.
I dont think it makes any difference whether you store the water in the fridge or
on the counter so it is really a matter of personal preference. The goal to pre
servation of the molecular hydrogen is to minimize the contact of the water with
air.
Im not a fan of plastic bottles but I use one almost every day when I ride my bik
e. I always pour fresh water into my bottle before heading out.
===
The American made Flo originally sold for $399 vs the $329 price tag of the Chin
ese made Alkastream. Vitev recently dropped the price of the Flo to $249 which t
hey say is the result of improved efficiency due to higher sales and the fact th
at they have recovered their original start up costs. Im impressed that Vitev car
es that much about their customers because I have never seen that anywhere else.
I tested the Flo extensively when it was first introduced and it performed very
well.
In regards to your hard water, I think Vitev still sells a hard water solution t
hat is used by coffee shops all over the world. Coffee shops use a lot of water
and hard water destroys their supply lines and equipment. Hard water is the enem
y of water ionizers.
===
The electric water ionizers and the natural water ionizers all seem to have simi
lar costs for filters. I personally think the cost is too high for all of them,
but thats just me. I like the natural units better for a lot of reasons including
the fact that the up cost price is so much lower.
===
I dont feel equipped to rate the electric water ionizers today as I stopped worki
ng with them about three years ago. I started using non-electric water ionizers
because they also work, they produce more stable ionization, they put minerals i
nto the water.and.they are a fraction of the price. I dont see myself ever going ba
ck to using electric water ionizers
If someone gave me my choice of receiving a water ionizer that I couldnt resell f
or a profit, I would take the Vitev Maxx ($795) as it is clearly the best produc
t on the market imo. It cleans the source water (reverse osmosis function), it r
emineralizes ideally according to the WHO (World Health Organization), it uses u
p to 80% less water than standard RO systems, and it fills the holding tank up t
o 4 times faster than standard RO systems. For those looking for the best bang f
or your buck, I like the VYVwater pitcher ($59) as it does what all good water i
onizers should do at a very low cost.
===
They are similar but different products.

Similarities: they both ionize, they both produce molecular hydrogen, they both
produce alkaline water, and they both add alkali minerals to the water.
Differences: the Maxx is extremely efficient at removing contaminants from
ater while the Flo only removes chorine and some heavy metals to a limited
t
: the Maxx adds alkali minerals at a much more controlled and stable level
falls within the optimum levels recommended by
the World Health Organization
: the Maxx provides a more consistent level of pH because the source water
be very similar no matter the location

the w
exten
which
will

If someone was giving me a unit for free, I would take the Maxx because I think
it makes the best drinking water in the world. However, if you are drinking from
a municipal source water that doesnt contain nasty contaminants (such as fluorid
e) or if the contaminants in the source water dont bother you at the levels they
are found, then the Flo will do the job for a lot less money.
Everyone has different personal tolerance levels as to what amount of contaminan
ts are acceptable. In our home, my wife prefers the Maxx because of the convenie
nce of being able to get the water directly from the tap.
===
If you call the city, they should be able to direct you to the water works depar
tment or be able to direct you to a website. More and more cities are putting th
eir information online. At the very least, they should be able to tell you if th
ey have fluoride in the water and if so, at what concentration. Most cities dont
want to talk about nasty stuff in the water because it scares people.
===
I have personally spoken to hundreds of people that have had their lives improve
d by drinking ionized water. Now that I have separated myself from the industry,
I will start posting the testimonials.
In regards to ionizers being recognized as a medical device in Japan, that is tr
ue. However, the recognition is for acid water only, for use as a disinfectent.
===
I agree with you that not all water ionizers are equal. My claim is that they al
l work, not that they are all equal. Different machines work slightly better or
worse under different source water conditions. Changing the power or the number
of plates does change performance in the short term. However, the stablehydrogen
produced during ionization, is and always will be entirely dependent upon the m
ineral content of the water. Electrolysis, creates temporary conditions that peo
ple can measure with an ORP meter (a device that measures electrical charge).
I dont buy every machine the hits the market, but I have bought 12 different bran
ds that I have tested thoroughly. They all work.
===
The other water ionizer companies are not simply marketing companies. Some are a
gents for manufacturers while others manufacture the products themselves. Enagic
in the USA and other countries are agents for the manufacturer. In fact, Enagic
machines were originally made by Toyo. To be more specific, the Enagic SD501 wa
s originally created as the PURE PORT II and it was given a cosmetic face lift w
hen Enagic purchased the rights to the machine and started selling them in 2004.
You may not be too happy to learn that the price of the PURE PORT II was under
$1,000 before Enagic performed its magic.
It is a well known fact that Enagic paid the association of Japanese medical doc
tors for their endorsement. The practice is not uncommon. Do you actually think
that 6,500 medical doctors in Japan have tested and sell or endorse the Kangen m
achine? I would love to see proof of that.
===

Aqualiv is a public company (people can buy and sell shares in the company). Hav
ing worked in the financial industry in the past, my only comment would be that
the primary focus of any public company is to make money for its shareholders.nuf
said!
When Aqualiv claims that ionized water is artificial, they are talking about the p
rocess of electrolysis which temporarily boosts the pH and reduces the ORP, whic
h they refer to as unstable ionization. Aqualiv uses a non-electric system to prod
uce stable ionization, which is derived from water molecules interacting with alka
li metals such as calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium.
As far as I can determine, Aqualivs claim that the artificial ionizaton has side
effects is unsubstantiated. Perhaps they are referring to the Asian study perfor
med many years ago that extreme use of ionized water caused an elevation in hear
t disease in laboratory rats. The study was later shot full of holes by other sc
ientists.
Im a big fan of the natural (aka non-electric) water ionizers. They naturally pro
vide the same health benefits as electric water ionizers at a fraction of the pr
iceunless you are paying the crazy high price charged by Aqualiv.
===
Aqualiv is a public company (people can buy and sell shares in the company). Hav
ing worked in the financial industry in the past, my only comment would be that
the primary focus of any public company is to make money for its shareholders.nuf
said!
When Aqualiv claims that ionized water is artificial, they are talking about the p
rocess of electrolysis which temporarily boosts the pH and reduces the ORP, whic
h they refer to as unstable ionization. Aqualiv uses a non-electric system to prod
uce stable ionization, which is derived from water molecules interacting with alka
li metals such as calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium.
As far as I can determine, Aqualivs claim that the artificial ionizaton has side
effects is unsubstantiated. Perhaps they are referring to the Asian study perfor
med many years ago that extreme use of ionized water caused an elevation in hear
t disease in laboratory rats. The study was later shot full of holes by other sc
ientists.
Im a big fan of the natural (aka non-electric) water ionizers. They naturally pro
vide the same health benefits as electric water ionizers at a fraction of the pr
iceunless you are paying the crazy high price charged by Aqualiv.
===
I agree with you that good water should cost a lot less. In fact, I have been ho
unding the water ionizer industry for years to do exactly that. I got tired of w
aiting and did something about it. Voila.natural water ionizers. Now we can spend
$400 and get a unit that provides superior drinking water to the $4,000 machine
s.
Pocket change is a relative term. Who knows what pocket change is to Bill Gates.
If manufacturers sold direct to the public, prices of everything could come dow
n. That is why we are seeing the popularity of places like Costco which mark up
the price of products by 8% to 14% but even then, there are typically middle men
involved. As long as there is a demand for retail merchandise, we will continue
to see retail prices
===
As to the medical device, the Japanese health organization has endorsed only one
ionizer out of hundreds out there, and that is the Enagic one. Enagic has the on
ly water ionizer that is a certified medical device in Japan. It is also the onl
y one endorsed by the Prestigious Geriatric Disease Prevention Association of Ja
pan. The Korean ionizers are self-certified. That is, they issue certification i

n-house.
Also noteworthy, out of hundreds of water ionizers again, there are only two mai
n manufacturers. Some smaller ones, but these are the main:
1.The ones from Korea and Taiwan out source their parts from a company called Em
co Tech.
2. The Enagic one manufactures their own parts in house. As such, they are an Or
iginal Equipment Manufacturer (OEM).
Enagic is the only ionizer company that is a member of the prestigious Direct Sa
les Association (DSA). The DSA has strick standards that very few companies qual
ify for.
They are the only water ionizer company that is a member of that association.
And now the latest: Enagic was just awarded the Gold Seal Certification from the
Water Quality Association (WQA).
Most importantly, and why it is the Gold Standard in quality: are the only ioniz
er company that does not have to use minerals to make drinkable ionized water. S
olely and strictly with the ionization process alone.
This is important for a number a couple of reasons: 1. The use of minerals to ma
ke alkaline water has a potential danger of making kidney/gall stones. 2. The us
e of stricty electrolosis
process means that the Negative Oxidation Reduction Potential (ORP) rate is stea
dy and stronger, and stays longer. 3. consistent successful micro-clustering of
the water, whereas other machines have difficulty. 4. Because of their method of
ionization, they are the only ionizer company that has the ability to make 2.5
strong acid for use as a disinfectant, and 11.5 strong alkaline for use as a degreaser (This is the only time there is use of an eloctrolysis enhancer that pas
ses through a separate chamber in the machine). Those waters also have volumes o
f research documentation in Japan for successful wound care, among other things.
It is extremely important for best health of the above points. Enagic does not u
se minerals to ionize their drinking water. They use the more expensive, but mor
e stable transformer to make 230 watts of power to pass through solid titanium p
lates. And because of this, it requires the dipping of those plates in platinum
for protection.
That is a huge reason for the expense of their product. They insist on it for ma
ximum results.
Other ionizer companies do not use enough platinum to be able to get 230 watts o
f power to pass through those titanium plates without breaking the plates. Or, t
hey dont use platinum at all, and use mesh plating to cut manufacturing costs, wh
ich again, forces them to use minerals and an on/off power source to keep those
plates from breaking down.
That is why they use the on again, off again power SMTP? system to pass the plate
s for ionization. The result of this system is that the ORP rate is not consiste
nt, and failure to microcluster the water.
This is why all ionizers are not the same. Some have better results than others,
some have no results. Quality matters. Homework must be more than blogging, or
internet searches, because as Rob knows, many distributors are out there just tr
ying to make a buck. I strongly recommend that the above associations be contact
ed for verification:
The Water Quality Association (WQA)
Geriatric Disease Prevention Association of Japan
The Japanese Health Organization

The Direct Sales Association (DSA)


Enagic
===
Everything you say about the Enagic machine is true except your reference to why
the Enagic machine is so expensive. My best guess is that the cost to manufactu
re the SD501 is approximately $500, which puts it in the same ball park as other
competing machnes. In regards to the materials used and the membership in the v
arious associations, your information is correct as far as I know. The associati
ons are all bought and paid for, but at least Enagic went through the process an
d paid the fees.
What you say about other machines is not necessarily true. It is very important
that you are able to prove your statements about the products offered by other c
ompanies. When you call the Enagic head office, they will not verify anything ab
out other products and they are extremely careful about making claims. The Enagi
c Dealers should take heed and follow suit.
To my knowledge, Enagic doesnt provide evidence of their machines being able to p
rovide microclustering, or that other machines are unable to do so. I could prov
ide many more examples of unsubstantiated claims being made by Enagic Dealers, b
ut that has been covered many times.
I like your enthusiasm for the water and for your specific brand. Keep up the gr
eat work, but be careful about making claims that you personally are unable to p
rove.
===
Ionization is really about creating free hydrogen. The free hydrogen generated i
s almost pure energy, which is why it is so valuable to the body. The process ca
n be accomplished with electric or non-electric water ionizers. Ultimately, the
amount of ionization will depend upon the mineral content in the water.
You are correct when you say that it doesnt make sense to share water from an ele
ctric water ionizer. The reason for not sharing is due to the fact that the ener
gy created by an electric machine is unstable and thus very temporary. As such,
it is really important to drink the water from an electric machine in the first
thirty seconds to one minute. Try putting your hand over the top of a glass of y
our Kangen water and shake it vigorously for ten seconds and then measuer the OR
P (energy content). You will be very dismayed with the result. The energy conten
t of the water produced by the ionized water will return to its stable or natural
level based upon the mineral content of the water.
Im a big fan of Enagics free trial or loarner program. People who do try the water
will notice a difference.
The reason that Im such a big fan of the natural (non-electric) water ionizers is
due to the fact that they put lots of minerals into the water which creates the
natural ionization. Therefore, they keep producing free energy as long as the m
inerals are present in the water.and they are very affordable
===
Ionized water and alcohol are two of only a very limited number of fluids that p
ass directly through the stomach. While regular tap water or bottled water take
approximately three hours to pass through the stomache, ionized water passes in
a few minutes. How can I be sure of this? Try this simple test. Drink three 16 o
unce glasses of tap or bottled water (48 ounces) in two minutes and take note of
how you feel afterwards. You will feel bloated and uncomfortable for a signific
ant period of time. The next day, drink 48 ounces of ionized water in two minute
s. Within minutes, you will note that you dont feel anything at all other than yo
u might find yourself energized.
I will address what I believe to be the truth about how and why ionized water is

so effective for so many people in an upcoming article. Remember, everyone that


comments on the water, including the so called experts, are only guessing as sc
ience doesnt have an answer to water yet.
===
In regards to the hydrogen sticks, I have used one a number of times. They stick
s contain minerals which do increase the pH to about 8.5 and reduce the ORP to a
round zero (plus or minus). I think the sticks have a worthwhile function as the
y can be used in an emergency, or to freshen up ionized water that has been sitt
ing for awhile. However, the sticks dont actually ionize the water or create micr
o clusters and should never be substituted for a real water ionizer.
I had never heard of the Aqua Liv system, so I just checked out their website. T
hey sell a filter system, worth about $250 and they claim their vortex system cr
eates hexagonal water. The site provides virtually nothing in terms of statistic
s about performance. I dont know enough about the technology to provide a proper
review. Im willing to learn, but in the meantime, I would go for proven technolog
y from a well established company that can offer great results for less money. W
ater ionizers have a 30 year track record in Asia, and they have helped hundreds
of people that I have spoken with. If you do purchase a system, I would like to
hear your comments. If the company sends me a unit, I will test it and publish
my unbiased opinion.
===
In May 2011 Enagic finally got a patented Compensation Plan. It took them 7 years
but they finally got it. Enagic is not an MLM. It is direct sales. Please stop p
erpetuating a lie, Rob.
===
OK. I wasnt aware of their revolutionary new name for their compensation plan, so
I stand corrected. I have no interest in lying to anyone.
I dont really care what Enagic calls its compensaton plan. Why dont they modernize
their equipment and drop the price by $3,000 so that people can afford them?
You have suggested that you always get what you pay for. I can see your point of
view because a purchaser buys on perceived value. You are happy with the fact t
hat your machine for $4,000. Nobody has the right to question your judgement. Th
e fact that so many people are willing to spend $4,000 on a water ionizer that i
s based upon 15 year old technology is a testament to the brilliant marketing jo
b done by Enagic.
You mentioned the BMW automobile in your comments. Would you be happy buying a b
rand new BMW that was built to the exact standards of their cars 15 years ago? W
ould you agree that BMW has made a multitude of improvements to their cars in th
e last 15 years? Now ask yourself what improvements Enagic has made to the Pure
Port II/SD501 in the last 15 years. If you believe that their have been no techn
ological improvements in 15 years in the industry then you really are drinking t
he Enagic Kool Aid.
I can debate this topic endlessly based upon facts, rather than sales pitch. I h
ave to wonder if you are actually an Enagic customer, or if you are really just
a certain IonWays dealer who likes to play games on this blog.
===
Distilled water has its place, just not for drinking unless there is no alternat
ive such as in a disaster situation. When raw sewage is being dumped into drinki
ng water supplies, distilled water will save your life.
===
I toured the manufacturing facilities of several water ionizer companies in Kore
a a couple of years ago. During one of the tours, I had the good fortune to meet
with the owner of a company that makes the plates for most of the water ionizer
companies in Korea. At that time, the first 9 plate machine was being introduce
d to the market. When I asked the owner if he made the 9 plate ionizing chamber
for the machine, he said no. He told me that he was offered the opportunity to m

ake the chamber for the new machine, but that he turned it down as it was a wast
e of money. He explained that 9 plates were no better than 7 plates and that in
most cases, 7 plates were no better than 5 plates. He provided a live demonstrat
ion where I witnessed a 4 plate machine produce incredibly high pH results. It w
as during the visit that day when I realized that all of the extra plates are ju
st marketing hype.
I also learned that day that the plates only cost $15 each. Maybe IonWays can ex
plain why their Vesta GL (9 plates) machine sells for nearly $1,200 more than th
eir very reliable and effective Melody, which has 5 plates. The extra plates are
not needed, but lets say somebody wants one anyway. I can see an additional cha
rge of $100 to that they can make a few extra buck. They have also used a new SM
PS that generates more power. The new SMPS cant cost more than $10 more, but lets
allow the company to charge an extra $100 per unit for the $10 item. If IonWays
raised the price by $200 over the cost of the Melody, the company would make we
ll over $100 of extra profit. But instead of making a nice score on the new unit
, IonWays increased their price by $1,200. Can you say RIPOFF?
IonWays has done a lousy job at almost everything they try. The fought and lost
the branding battle to Enagic. The fought higher price battle and lost. When Ion
Ways decided it was better to join the Enagic way of thinking by establishing th
eir own MLM, they failed miserably. Then IonWays tried to get into the natural w
ater ionizers which blew up on them because they priced their model 4.5 times hi
gher than the leading brand and the project was quickly scuttled. After correctl
y resisting the plate race for years, IonWays is now getting into the 9 plate mach
ines and raising the price by $1,200.
If you like IonWays, I recommend that you buy their Melody for $1,575. Better st
ill, take a look at their Venus for $1,175 as it is basically the same machine w
ithout the automatic self cleaning feature. Even better, check out some of the c
ompetitive sites where the Venus is offered at $695.
IonWays continues to get in their own way with their superiority attitude. They su
ck at just about everything other than making simple and effective machines that
sell for reasonable prices. They keep trying to reinvent themselves instead of
taking a look at their core strength.
In summary, I would recommend against spending $2,750 for the 9 plate Vesta GL.
I warned people not to buy their ill fated Elita natural water ionizer for $1,49
5 at it suffered a quick and painful death.
===
I dont have a comment on the small study on newborn rats. What I do know is that
ionized water has been around for 30 years and it has helped millions of people.
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a claim made against the wate
r legitimate or otherwise. Now there is a thought for the debunkers and their ph
arma backers.just launch a lawsuit. I wouldnt put it past them.
===
If people think that a product is worth a certain amount, then it is. For exampl
e, I would pay $100,000 for a water ionizer if there was not other way to get on
e.
I believe that the Enagic dealers are the best thing that ever happened to this
industry. However, I know the prices of Enagic machines could and should be a lo
t lower. I also know that the things that some Enagic dealers sometimes say abou
t their competition is not true, but that doesnt mean that every Enagic dealer be
haves that way. My greatest wish for the water ionizer industry right now would
be for Enagic to modernize their lineup and sell the machines for $1,495. That p
rice would allow for good profits for the company to maintain the business so th
at it could advertise and stick around for the long run, and it would allow the
dealers to be well compensated for their hard work. That way, the machines would

be affordable to many more people. The real goal should be to get as many peopl
e as possible to be healthy.
===
I think most people are aware that Enagic offers less expensive machines. Unfort
unately, it is human nature to want the best, especially when it comes to our he
alth. I have found that many of the Sunus sales are to people who want to become
Enagic dealers and purchase the Sunus as the least expensive way to join the ML
M system. I have tested the Sunus and I think that there are much superior machi
nes available in a similar price range. All the same, the Sunus works, just like
all the other machines out there.
===
The actual price of some of the leading machines is a lot less than you see on l
ine. My current favourite is the EOS Platinum at $1,695 but the units were recen
tly on sale in the States for $1,395. The price is back up to $1,695, but dealer
s offer filters etc to entice customers and good hard negotiation will likely pr
oduce better prices. Tyent has introduced the IonQuench which they sell for $1,4
40 and the dealers offer incentives. Tyent has now picked up the rights to KYK a
nd they dealers are offering the machine at $1,525 plus incentives. All of the a
bove machines are good 7 plate machines with the latest technology. The competit
ion is heating up and the consumers win.as my kids would say.kewl
I agree with you that Enagic does it best when it comes to marketing. Getting pe
ople to try the water is the most effective sales technique possible because the
water actually works. The great thing about Enagic is that the reps actually ta
ke the product to the street. The companies that sell on line out of their home
office can make very good money, but they are not reaching out to anyone.
I love your use of the words creative marketing. I assume you mean the creative li
cense that they take with their unbiased reviews etc. Enagic itself has by far the
most real creative marketing.
Everyone compares themselves to Enagic for two reasons and neither have anything
to do with Enagic being the gold standard. First off, Enagic creates all the awar
eness, so others must do the comparison to draw the attention of consumers who a
re looking for a less expensive alternative that still produce good results. Sec
ond, Enagic is such an easy target. The entire concept of paying $1,500 or $2,00
0 for a machine that makes water seems ludicrous to most people when they can ge
t water for free from their tap. Enagic machines are $4,000 which makes them see
m even more ridiculous. Of course the water is different, but unless people are
actually sick, they tend to choose to put their money towards other things.
I like the way that you support your company. You are proud to be an Enagic rep
and that is good. You dont slam the competition and that is good. You dont make a
bunch of false statements and that is good. Keep up the good work.
===
Your statement about the need to buy new plates for other ionizers when calcium
builds up is not true. I have cleaned the plates for hundreds of machines over t
he years from various brands. I think that only one person ever had to buy new p
lates and the cost was about $200 including the labor for the change over. Since
the customer paid $1,500 for their machine, they still ended up being out of po
cket $1,700 after two years. Once they had their plates changed, they followed t
he cleaning instructions and never had another problem. Enagic and most other co
mpanies now offer cleaning cartridge which are basically cartridges filled with
citric acid. Customers pop them into their machine and run them for awhile and v
oila.just like new. There are much less expensive ways of cleaning a machine, but
most people opt for the nominal cost of a cleaning filter.
Value is in the eye of the beholder. If someone believes that $3,980 is a fair p
rice to pay for the benefits one receives from an Enagic SD501, then more power
to them. If there was only one water ionizer on the planet, I would pay $100,000

for it because of the benefits I receive from the water. However, anyone can pu
rchase great electric water ionizers for $1,500. People can also receive all the
same health benefits from antioxidant filters (non-electric water ionizers) for
$329 which also remove most of the contaminants from the water including fluori
de and chloramines (which the Enagic SD501 does not do).
Im happy that you are satisfied with your Enagic. If your friend isnt happy with h
er KYK, she should contact Tyent USA (or whoever they have designated as their r
epresentative). The service manager (Jim) at Tyent has always gone out of his wa
y to help people.
Yupanyone can write anythingeven me. I dont have any grudge with Enagic. In fact, I
think they did a great job for years of spreading the word. I dont like the fact
they threatened to suit me over my blog. Fortunately, they immediately backed o
ff when I indicated that I would write ongoing detailed reports of all of the in
accuracies broadcast by specific individuals from the weekly conference calls I
would be listening to for the two years that it took to get me to court. They re
ally didnt like the fact that I said I would take the comments down if they won i
n court, but I would then set up new sites in 100 different countries where they
would find it virtually impossible to take me to court. Having the truth on you
r side and nothing to lose is a powerful combination!
Enagic people are not bad people. My only issue is with the inaccurate informati
on that some of the sales people spread to support their ridiculously high price
s.
===
I see that you have been drinking the Enagic cool aid. They make a decent machine,
but it is not the best machine by any stretch of the imagination no matter how
many times they repeat the story to their distributors and customers.
Enagic has only been selling water ionizers since 2004. Bob McCauley introduced
the Emco (Jupiter) machines in the USA in 1996. Perhaps you are are referring to
the fact that Mr. Ichiro purchase the rights to the Pure Port II (one of 19 wat
er ionizer machines produced by the Toyo corporation) on behalf of his new MLM c
ompany in 2001 as a basis of your statement about the machine being around the l
ongest.
The last few statements that you make indicate that you are definitely reading t
he company line. This is OK if it works for you. I have no issue with people buyin
g Enagic machines because they work.I do have issue with dealers making false cla
ims and making up stories to support the massively over inflated price of the SD
501.
Based upon your comments in your posts, I doubt that you did your own independen
t research on the matter of electric water ionizers. By that, I mean testing oth
er machines and talking to owners of other machines. Regardless, congratulations
on your purchase as you are now drinking ionized water and you will undoubtedly
reap the health benefits.
===
The electric water ionizers offere the ability to generate acidic water, or very
high pH and very low ORP levels. These additional qualities will be appreciated
by people who want to use the acidic water on their skin, or for cleaning solut
ions. The high pH levels allow for faster removal of pesticides from fruit and v
egetables when they are soaked in the water.
The antioxidant filters allow for much superior removal of contaminants from the
source water.
My understanding is that drinking water is used 30 times more than acidic or hig
h pH water by the average consumer of electric water ionizers. Choosing which ma

chine to buy really depends upon a persons needs. I replaced my electric water io
nizer with an Alkastream in my home office several months ago and have not notic
ed any detectable difference in terms of changes to my health.
===
It typically costs about $200 per year for filters for most electric water ioniz
ers despite what they advertise. The unfortunate part of electric water ionizer
filters is that they are not designed to remove much in the way of contaminants
from the water. Therefore, the cost is usually another $100 or more per year. Th
is may sound like a lot of money but would you rather buy a filter, or be a filte
r?
===
I respect the work of Robert Young. I personally know a number of people who hav
e benefitted greatly from his advice. He is dedicated to his trade adn the world
is a better place for it. I have never had the pleasure of meeting the man, but
I have had a couple of conversations with him and I believe him to be sincere.
When it comes to Robert Young and business, Im not a fan. Based upon the research
I have done on his business activities, I believe very strongly that his endore
sements are bought. He certainly seems to lose his scientific objectivity when i
t comes to reporting on those products. My guess is that he bows to commercialis
m as a way of mainting his research and his lifestyle (avocado ranches are expen
sive).
I like Robert Young and I would not want to discourage his work. I dont see how i
t would benefit anyone if I blew the whistle on the Chanson endorsement. I think
people already know what I think about the guy that runs Chanson, so throwing g
as on the fire serves no useful purpose.
Robert Young is no worse and actually a whole lot more useful to the world than
Dr. Mercola or David Wolfe. At least Robert Young contributes something besides
a never ending sales pitch.
===
Here is a very brief snapshot of what I know, or at least what I think I know.
Similarities between a water ionizer and a hydrogen machine:
Hydrogen machines actually produce hydroxyl ions (OH-) even though they are refe
rred to a hydrogen. These are the same hydroxyl ions that water ionizers produce
. The water produced is alkaline (a pH above 7.0) which is a measure of the avai
lability of hydrogen ions (H+) or hydroxyl ions (OH-). When there are more H+ io
ns, the water is acidic, and when there are more OH- ions, the water is alkaline
.
The alkaline water produced by both machines carries a negative charge that can
actually be measured in millivolts. The measurement of the millivolts is commonl
y referred to as ORP or Oxidation Reduction Potential. I wont get into all the th
eory of ORP, but lets just say for now that the ORP helps reduce the acidic buil
dup in our bodies
Differences between a water ionizer and a hydrogen machine:
Water ionizers run water across electically charged plates, which means they req
uire electricity. A water ionizer actually separates the source water into two s
treams of water, one with extra hydroxyl ions (OH-) which is alklaine water, and
another with hydrogen ions (H+) which is acidic water. A hydrogen machine doesnt
use electricity at all. A hydrogen machine produces alkaline water only by runn
ing water though a filter that is rich in positively charged cations such as mag
nesium.
Advantages of water ionizers:ul>
Powerful water ionizers definitely have advantages such as the ability to produc
e acidic water that can be used as an effective astringent on the skin, or as a

disinfectant in a stronger form. Powerful water ionizers can also produce very h
igh pH alkaline water which will remove petrochemicals from from fruit and veget
ables by soaking them in the water for 20 to 30 minutes. Hydrogen machines wont d
o this.
Advantages of hydrogen machines:
Hydrogen machines will produce drinking water that will provide all the health b
enefits of a water ionizer, which is by far the most important reason why we pur
chase these machines, and they will do it at
a fraction of the cost of a water ionizer.
The hydrogen machine that Im testing also claims to act as an excellent purifier
of the contaminants in the source water. The literature offers independent lab t
est results that indicate the filter removes fluoride, chlorine, VOCs, lead, merc
ury and other substances. If that is true, then you dont have to add a pre-filter
system, which every water ionizer should have. Im trying to decide if I should s
pend the money to have the results of the machine tested myself. I have been tol
d the test will cost me about $1,000. Since I dont make any money anymore, Im hesi
tant to spend the money. If anybody out there can provide independent test resul
ts from a cerified lab, Im sure I could get the company to send you a free test m
achine.
The hydrogen machines have other advantages. The wont get scaled up like a water
ionizer in hard water conditions because the calcium in the water wont precipitat
e out of the water during the ionization process like it does with a water ioniz
er. The hydrogen machine is easy to install and is much smaller than a water ion
izer which means it doesnt take up much counter space. One final advantage of a w
ater ionizer is that very little can go wrong with it because it doesnt have an e
xpensive SMPS or an expensive ionization chamber which can get scaled up and it
doesnt have a sensitive keypad.
As you can see, Im excited about hydrogen machines because they are affordable to
almost everyone. If the machines do what they claim to do over the long term, a
nd by that I mean provide consistent pH and ORP output levels and remove the con
taminants from the source water, then I can see my goal of a water machine in ev
ery home becoming a reality a lot sooner. I just need to recruit Bill Clinton to
my non-profit cause as we would be off to the races.
===
I believe the ORP for fresh orange juice is actually a less negative than you po
sted, but the real point is that fresh orange juice does have a negative ORP.
Your claim that a good water ionizer can produce an ORP of -800 leaves itself op
en to debate and a number of factors. For instance, if you are only looking for
healthy drinking water so that you wont get sick, you would never drink water wit
h an ORP of -800. Tap water will have different source water locations will have
widely different positive ORP values. I have heard some ORP values as high as +
800 in Oregon. The tap water where I live generally varies from +220 to +260, bu
t I have tested it as low as +180 and as high as +280. Every different source wa
ter will have a different ORP value and the values from one location will change
all the time. The ORP that comes out of a machine is dependent upon the ORP of
the source water. The ORP of the output water will also depend upon the minerals
or salts in the water and the amount of power that is delivered across the ioni
zing plates. To make matters even more confusing, water at 70 degrees F will typ
ically have a lower ORP by about 40mv than the same source water taken at the sa
me time from a tap. The entire issue of ORP and its effectiveness as a measure i
s up for debate.
Claims of the Fountain of Youth are too heavy on the sales pitch for me, but I a
gree with you that drinking alkaline ionized water helps a lot of people.
===

Distilled water is definitely dead water as it is completely devoid or any subst


ance other than pure water. Unless you are taking supplemental essential vitamin
s and minerals, or you eat an extraordinarily healthy diet, your body will most
likely start leaching calcium out of your bones and teeth at some point, if it h
asnt started already. The blood in your body is very demanding and will steal whate
ver it needs to from wherever it needs to in order to make up for any deficiency
. The RO people claim that the body cant absorb minerals from water, but I had su
re talked to a lot of people who have suffered from prolonged use of dead water
and who recovered once they stopped.
It is hard to argue with the fact that you are feeling better. I would just make
sure that you get checkups and have you doc look our for any sign of mineral de
ficiency. If you love your water, just make sure you supplement properly
===
I have written in the past about the fact that ionized water passes immediately
through the stomach while tap water or bottled water remains in the stomach for
half an hour or more while it is being processed. Hence, the difference when it
comes to experiencing bloating or not.
I have become a big believer in Dr. Hayashis work. In fact, Im tossing around the
idea of writing an article on whether the live water is better for us that the elec
trocuted water produced by electrolysis based water ionizers. I have lots of ammu
nition for the article except for one major factor, which is the fact that water
ionizers work. How can I tell people that the Hydrogen produced by non-electric
water ionizers is better for you when there is evidence from hundreds of thousa
nds of people world wide that have benefitted from the more traditional water io
nizers.
I have used a Hydrogen water stick and it works. The benefit is that it is very
inexpensive. The downsides to the water stick are primarily that they are a nuis
ance to use and they dont filter the water. In addition, if you want stronger wat
er, it is recommended to use two or three sticks and that becomes expensive as t
he sticks dont last very long.
I dont know if Hydrogen sticks produce harmful side effects or not, but I doubt i
t. I do know that if you leave the sticks in the water too long, the manufacture
recommends throwing out the water. The reason for this is that the stick contin
ues to ionize the water as long as it remains in the water. As a result, the wat
er will develop a metallic taste which is unpleasant. I dont think the water can
actually hurt you in any way.
The answer to the issues presented by the Hydrogen sticks are the Antioxidant fi
lters. The Antioxidant filters use the same process as the Hydrogen sticks in th
at their performance is created primarily by running water across a magnesium me
dia. However, the Antioxidant filters offer so much more than the Hydrogen stick
s. The Anitioxidant filters are much more powerful and they remove chlorine, chl
oramine, fluoride, VOCs, THMs, lead, mercury, bacteria and more from the water.
In addition, the Antioxidant filters can produce the filtered antioxidant water
on demand rather than waiting for small batches.
===
I would appreciate it if you would email me privately with the contact informati
on of the people that suffered from kidney stone problems after drinking water f
rom an electric water ionizer. I will contact them to learn their stories and pu
blish the details on this site. When people make claims, either good or bad, Im a
lways happy to follow up to verify the story. Otherwise, anyone can say anything
.
I have read varying information about ionized water and kidney stones. One of th
e manufacturers specifically mentions in their User Manual that people with kidn
ey issues should consult their physician before using their machines. The man th

at runs Chanson in the USA personally told me that he recommends that anyone wit
h kidney problems will do well if they drink water from the machines his company
produces.
All manufacturers that I know of always recommend that customers consult with th
eir physician before drinking water from their machines.
===
I just cant agree with you that the benefits of ionized water are a placebo effec
t. While the placebo effect can be very powerful, just like positive thinking, t
here is no possible way that a placebo effect could have made all the changes th
at myself and so many others have experienced.
===
Ive been following with great interest this latest comment thread between yoursel
f and Patricia. Its pretty clear that Patricia is an Enagic Rep who is very passion
ate about that particular company and its main machine model called the SD-501. E
nagic is truly a great company and their product line when compared against othe
r water ionizers in the market is of very high quality. But as Rob points out th
roughout his Blog Site, there are many issues and variables affecting these mach
ines. The comments regarding Japanese Govt endorsements is also right on. Those ce
rtifications are bought and paid for as all of them are (at one level or another)
. Ive personally been to certified independent lab studies where Ive seen with my
own eyes various machines perform better than the SD-501 but I gotta say also th
at none of them had the quality construction throughout that the SD-501 does. So
rt of like comparing a 1970s Saab or Volvo against a newer model car with all the
modern electronic bells and whistles. Theres just a durability of construction t
here thats tough to argue against.
However, raw body strength alone is not a final deciding factor. The alteration
of the water produced by the Enagic machine was substandard to that produced by
the IonWays Athena. I saw this myself time and time again. Also, no one could ar
gue that the Enagic on-board filtration system bites bigtime. Its basically a sma
ll cheesy overpriced carbon filter that does nothing more really than filter out
some chlorine and protect the water cell from a too speedy death.
As far as taking apart and examining the various machines go, Ive seen lots of th
em to the point of looking like that StarWars scene where all the robot droids a
re taken apart. I believe that all of them have a long way to go towards being a
final practical solution. The best Electrical Units Ive seen are the true commer
cial industrial water ionizing units that sell for $7,500 and up. Those are the
true workhorses but even they have replaceable water cell modules that are meant
to be changed out after several thousand hours. Other than that, Ill stick with
our current non electric systems in terms of true healthy water quality plus ant
ioxidant alteration while also factoring in the price/ cost and market affordabi
lity elements. If you want a microwave style system that electrically stimulates
the water thinking somehow that this is healthy for you then go with it! Maybe
the designers can eventually get them to actually boil the water too and then wel
l really have something! A true ionized water coffee machine!
===
I think that if I was a consumer who was going to purchase a machine for quasi-c
ommercial use (very high demand requirements), I would purchase an SD501 or perh
aps even get a stronger model. There is no question that the SD501 is a workhors
e.
When it comes to money, if something works and there is no alternative, it is ve
ry difficult to ascertain a value. If you have cancer and a machine or pill or h
erb or a healer gets rid of the cancer, then what is the solution worth? When it
comes to water ionizers, they all work, which allows us to comparison shop. If
I can purchase something for $329 that provides the benefits that Im looking for,
I would choose it over a a unit that costs $3,980, but thats just me. I dont need
to pay the most for anything.I just want something that works.
The antioxidant filters dont produce acid water. My wife uses the acid water all

the time. There are a number of variables that need to be considered before some
one buys a machine. There is definitely no one size fits all.
===
I would really like to see the scientific evidence or demonstrations of the evid
ence of micro clustering/hexagonal water (hello Dr. Hayashi). Im not saying micro
clustering doesnt exist, but I find it odd that it is talked about so much in the
world of water ionizer sales and yet nobody provides any evidence.
===
I recommend that anyone who uses a Reverse Osmosis system should purchase a nonelectric/antioxidant filter. The reason for my recommendation is that RO systems
remove the minerals from the water and make the water acidic. Electric water io
nizers require the source water to have minerals in order to work, which means t
hat RO systems work against electric water ionizers.
Antioxidant filters introduce minerals to the water, which allows them to work w
ell with RO systems.
Anyone that has an RO system and an electric water ionizer can introduce mineral
s into the water supply after the RO system and before the electric water ionize
r. This setup is costly and usually doesnt work as well as installing a much more
affordable antioxidant filter.
===
With great respect to the Ferns man, electronic ionizers do NOT increase oxygen
in output water.
===
I have been receiving a lot of emails lately about the presence of pharmaceutica
ls in municipal source water. They have always been there, among a lot of other
things. The Safe Drinking Water Act mandates maximum levles of about 100 contami
nants from water. Apparently, there are about 60,000 known chemicals in our soci
ety and they all eventually make it into the ground water.
To the best of my knowledge, none of the water ionzers (electric or natural/nonelectric) remove anything more than chlorine, taste, and odor (CTO). Granulated
Activeated Carbon (GAC) or a carbon block filter will remove chlorine and VOCs as
well as taste and odor.
I read lots of claims, but nobody has actually got proper testing done. Nobody l
ists how much of each media is included, or how the various media interreact.
Bottom line.if you want your water clean, get an Reverse Osmosis (RO) system. The
problem with RO systems is that they create acid water and they remove the heal
thy minerals. The problems with RO systems can be remedied with a good remineral
ization filter. Most RO companies dont understand the importance of remineralizin
g or they deny the obvious truth.
===
I havent done a lot of research on a brand by brand basis when it comes to RO sys
tems.
The little that I do know tells me to Buy American. The difference in quality of t
he parts is worth the money.
I also know that RO systems make the water acidic and remove the minerals which
the body would normally absorb from the source water.both are bad things for your
health. As I mentioned in the previous comment, the situation can be remedied b
y a good remin filter (not Calcite or Corosex). I have learned that the use of C
alcite or Corosex remin filters installed after the holding tank can in fact lea
d to the formation of kidney stones because so much calcium or magnesium is abso
rbed by the aggressive acidic water. Calcium and magnesium are good things for y
our health, but too much of anything is too much. Calcite and Corosex are effect
ive when it comes to raising the pH of tap water, but I wouldnt recommend them fo

r RO systems.
I dont think that 3 pre-filters are any better than 2 pre-filters (the canisters
hanging below the membrane), but I could be wrong. The second and third pre-filt
ers are both GAC or carbon block filters, each of which has a huge capacity to r
emove chlorine (their primary function). Therefore, I think the 3 pre-filters ar
e more of a justification for higher prices.
When it comes to RO systems, the final finishing filter actually reduces the pH of
the water if you have a proper setup.
I have found that the disinformation in the RO industry is very strong and rivals
the disinformation in the water ionizer industry. The RO guys have been telling
us for many years that the body cant absorb and benefit from drinking water that
contains alkali metalsnot true. They have also told us that clean water is health
y water for a long time, which is also not true. Drinking RO water over a prolon
ged period of time can be very harmful to your body if you dont supplement with a
Cal/Mag product or get the metals from your diet. More recently, the RO guys ar
e scrambling to remineralize the water with Calcite and Corosexanother bad move.
The good thing about the internet is that people who do their research can usual
ly discover a better solution.if they dont give up due to frustration first.
===
The fact that a machine has 9 plates doesnt make it superior to a 7 plate machine
. In fact, I suspect that I can show you a 4 plate machine which sells for$549 t
hat will equal or better the performance of the 9 plate machine you are looking
at.
Ultimately, it doesnt matter which machine you buy as they all work. The main thi
ng is to drink the water.
===
The 40% off sale price that you referred to would be welcome to any potential cu
stomer. I dont like big discounts for three reasons.
The first reason that I dont like big discounts is that any customer who has paid
more will feel bad when they see an expensive item for sale at a 40% lower pric
e. I would be pissed if I saw my water machine for sale for $700 less than I pai
d.
A second reason that I dont like big sales is that parent companies in the water
ionizer industry have a long track record of screwing their dealers. If a custom
er can buy a unit as a one off for 40% off, what does that do to the dealers who b
uy in volume and support the company? I wont name names as Im trying to stay away
from that, but the owners of most of the electric water ionizer companies have g
utted their dealers so many times that it has badly damaged the industry.
The third and most important factor why I dont like massive discounts is that the
y draw the entire credibility of the product into question. Everyone knows that
a company is still making a healthy profit (even at a 40% discount) because comp
anies have big overhead costs. In the case of Aqualiv, the need to make big prof
its is even more important because the managers are responsible to public shareh
olders who have access to their financial statements.
Fresh off the heels of Black Friday and in the current throws of the Christmas r
ush, it seems to me that the entire world is just one big marketing ploy to me.
I put more faith in a company that tells the public this is our price and sticks t
o it because that seems a whole lot more honest to me. I think sales should be f
or end of line and inventory clearance items. When I hear 40% off, I cant help bu
t think off what.
===
I checked out the ZeroWater filter. It is a batch filter (you make a batch of wa

ter at a time as opposed to a constant flow filter which hooks up to a tap). The
filter removes almost everything from the source water producing results simila
r to the results produced by a Reverse Osmosis system.but by very different mecha
nisms.
The ZeroWater filter produces almost pure water by using Deionizing Resin. In si
mple terms, the resin basically grabs onto the contaminants from the source wate
r and holds them in the filter. A Reverse Osmosis system blocks the passing of c
ontaminants through a very fine mesh and then sends the contaminants down the dr
ain via a waste water line.
A Reverse Osmosis membrane will work effectively for up to a year or more and pr
ocess large volumes of water. A Deionizing resin filter will work until the posi
tively and negatively charged media in the resin get used up.
Batch filters systems like Brita and ZeroWater are effective at cleaning water f
or short periods of time. The manufacturers can make the units for next to nothi
ng because the plastic parts are cheap to make. The companies make their money b
y selling you new replacement filters every 2 to 6 weeks.
While ZeroWater does clean the water, it actually makes the water unhealthy beca
use it removes elements that are essential to your health.
Sorry for the long explanation (lots of people read the comments so I try to mak
e them as informative as possible).
To answer your specific question, the most cost effective way to make your water
healthy would be to add mineral drops that you can find at a health food store.
The mineral drops are cumbersome and the amount of water you can produce is lim
ited, but they do work. Personally, I would much rather get a unit like the Vite
v Flo (see http://www.vitev.com) because it is much more convenient and cost eff
ective over time, but everyone has to make there own personal choices to suit th
eir lives.
===
The Alkastream and other natural water ionizers are designed to have the filter
changed every six months. If you are not changing the filter that often, you wil
l definitely see diminishing performance. The filter is the engine of the system
. If you dont take care of the engine, it will stop working.
===
pHrice is always my pHroblem with the pHroducts that man pHimps (Dr. Young). No
doubt they are good but come on dude seriously? 10 bucks for a shot glass bottle
of spray salt water from Salt Lake you can go scoop up with a bucket for pHree?
Give the world a break. How much money do you have to make in life seriously. Y
ou cant take it with you. Dr. Young charges 600 bucks for a live blood test I can
my ND to do for 80 or free if he is in a good mood. Young forgot somewhere alon
g the way it is about helping people not becoming a billionaire.
===
I have always been a fan of Dr. Youngs research but not his business practices. A
fter saying that, he makes lots of money and I dont make any, so who is the joke
really on?
Alkasteam has always recommended a change of filters every six months.
The easiest way to test your Alkastream (or any other water ionizer) to make sur
e it is working properly is to purchase a bottle of pH drops which cost about $1
0. Dont use the pH strips that are sold for checking the pH level of saliva or ur
ine as the strips dont work with the water.
===
I would spend $399 on a Vitev Flo or $429 on their UNDR which is the undersink v
ersion. Both are natural water ionizers that provide similar pH results as the e

lectric water ionizers and they provide longer lasting ORP (energy). I joined th
e company because they provide effective, affordable ionized water without all t
he marketing nonsense.
===
The test strips dont work for any type of alkaline water ionizer that I have ever
tested. The scientific name of the product is: ethyl alcohol anhydrous
You can purchase the pH reagent test drops online. They typically cost about $10
.
===
All of the electric and natural water ionizers work very effectively at producin
g elevate pH levels. I dont think the story is about pH levels anymore. That is n
ot to say that being alkaline isnt important because it is. However, I dont believ
e a 9.5 pH is better than a 8.0 pH in terms of improving your healthy. I think t
he real story is about energy (measured as milivolts with an ORP meter) and with
putting Magnesium and Calcium back into the water with the emphasis on Magnesiu
m.
Over time my research directed has lead me to be a fan of natural water ionizers
for several reasons.the ionize naturally as opposed to electrocuting the waterthe
y provide stable (long lasting) ionization because they add Mg and Ca to the wat
er which is what creates the ionizationthe addition of Ca and particularly Mg to
the water is very healthy for us.and they cost about 1/10 the price of the leadin
g electric water ionizer brand.
In the past, I would never name brand because I wanted to remain unbiased. As my
research continued, it became obvious to me that Vitev (see http://www.vitev.co
m) is way out in front of everyone else in the industry. I ended up joining Vite
v recently when they asked for my help and it has been incredibly rewarding.
===
Im surprised to hear that you are not getting a higher pH than 8.0 from your Alka
stream as the units always tested higher than that for me and the many people I
sent it to for testing.
It is really hard to predict what the pH will be as every source water reacts in
a different way. When I was in the water ionizer business a few years ago, we g
ot some crazy results for all different kinds of machines. Sometimes the source
water would block up the filters in a far shorter time than expected or the plat
es of electric water ionizers would get scaled up really fast when the source wa
ter was hard.
In regards to pH, I wouldnt be worried about an 8.0 level at all because it is st
ill alkaline. In fact, I dont think it really matters what the pH is because the
buffering systems in your body will balance the pH to whatever is required. The
gastric juices in your stomach will knock the pH down, but in doing so, the bica
rbonate byproducts created while the stomach is busy creating more acid will hel
p the pH of the liquid entering your intestines to be 8.2 pH as required. The pa
ncreas acts as a buffer as does your blood. Imo, there is far too much noise about
pH in the water ionizer industry. While drinking alkaline water is better than
drinking acidic beverages, I think the energy produced (measured by ORP) by ioni
zation is far more important. I also think that the Mg added by natural water io
nizers is also more important than the pH story because 97% of people are defici
ent in the critically important Mg.
===
I truly believe that we can change our entire healthcare system for the better.
People need to take responsibility for their own self care and stop relying upon d
octors who are not trained in helping people help themselves.
In order to really create change, our governments need to sanction health care p
ayments to NDs and other certified health care providers. At the present time, n

aturopathic care is only available to those that can afford it. If that doesnt of
fend people in its own right, then perhaps they can look at it from a cost savin
gs perspective. If the public had access to affordable and real health care from p
rofessionals that are actually trained in helping people become and stay healthy
as opposed to fixing something that is broken, then our health care costs would
plummet.
I took the liberty of copying and pasting the following statement from the About
Us section of the website in the URL that you provided with your comment:
Our expertise is integrating the knowledge of Western science with the practices
of alternative medicine. We will help patients gain control of their health care
needs by assisting them in taking back responsibility for their own well being.
Whoever wrote the statement gets it and I applaud them for it.
People dont have to be sick. Im not saying people wont get sick, because things hap
pen. However, the incidence of diabetes and cancer and other diseases that are d
raining our health care system could be avoided. Our society should be looking a
t how to cure the diseases, not write prescriptions that toy with the symptoms y
ear after year. Naturopathic doctors are part of the solution.
===
I would be happy to call you and answer your questions to the best of my ability
. Please send me an email to robertthomas12@sympatico.ca, as it will bypass this
site.
===
I would begin by asking myself what you are trying to achieve by purchasing a ma
chine. Are you trying to repair a health issue such as cancer or are you trying
to slowly improve or maintain your health.
If you have severe health issues, I would purchase an electric water ionizer. Th
ere is no need to pay more than $1,000 to $1,500 for a top performing electric w
ater ionizer. If you have good source water, you can buy a 5 plate, 80 Watt Jupi
ter Venus for about $700. If you are willing to spend $4,000 on an Enagic, go fo
r it, but dont expect it to perform any better than any of the other leading bran
ds unless you are going to be producing massive amounts of ionized water (such a
s in a clinic).
If you want to improve or maintain your health, I would try a non-electric water
ionizer. Take a look at the Vitev FLO, which is made in America and sells for $
379. The unit has far superior filtering capabilities to the electric machines a
nd they ionize like crazy.
===
I dont have any issues with the IonWays products or Enagic products. In fact, I k
now for certain that they both work. My frustration is based upon the high price
s that people have to pay to purchase the machines. I understand the companies n
eed huge price markups in our society in order to pay all the different levels (
whether it be direct selling like MLM or the standard retail driven distribution
system). However, Im always looking for value and I think people can find much b
etter value if they are willing to work at it.
If you can afford either machine and the brand name gives you comfort, then go f
or it. If you want better value, hopefully I can help.
IonWays has traditionally bought their products from EmcoTech out of Korea. They
tried producing a non-electric machine made in the USA a couple of years ago bu
t their effort was a dismal failure. They also buy AlkaPods out of China. Enagic
obtains their equipment from the their own plant in Japan. Enagic purchased the
production capability for the Japanese made Pure Port II machine produced by To
yo in 2001 and started selling marketing the machine in the fall of 2004. I woul
dnt pay a premium for a Japanese made machine over a Korean made machine as the K

oreans make very high quality products for many different products. I would stay
away from Chinese made products and would definitely pay a premium for American
made products for a variety of reasons including quality, safety, after sales s
upport, and to provide for badly needed jobs in America.
I would also consider a non-electric machine (see http://www.vitev.com) as they
sell a great product called the FLO for $379. It is hard for a lot of people to
get their heads around the fact that a $379 can be better than a $3,980 machine,
but it is true for many applications.
===
I have believed for some time that non-electric water ionizers are superior to e
lectric water ionizers except when dealing with active cancer. My belief has bee
n based upon the work of Dr. Robert O. Young who treats cancer patients with alk
aline water that has extremely negative ORP as an alternative to chemotherapy. T
he original non-electric unit that I was familiar with (the AlkaStream) didnt pro
duce such extreme negative ORP values, so it seems logical to use an electric un
it when combatting cancer naturally.
I recently installed a Vitev Under Counter Flo in the kitchen of my new home. I
havent measured the pH or ORP yet, but I have never seen anything like it when it
comes to producing hydrogen bubbles in the first few weeks. I do know that the
water turns the pH drops a deep purple, so I suspect it is producing a strong ne
gative ORP. After a few weeks, the purple color starts to weaken and the color o
f begins to turn blue. I love that process for healthy people because I dont thin
k we should be drinking strong alkaline water on an ongoing basis. A cleansing eve
ry six months or so followed by regular consumption of alkaline water in the 8-9
range makes more sense to me.
These days, if someone I loved had been diagnosed with cancer, I would recommend
the Vitev Ultra because it really cranks out impressive number for a long time.
In fact, I believe the Ultra makes the best man made drinking water in the worl
d. The Ultra can be purchased with a dual tap that allows you to mix alkaline wa
ter with acidic water to adjust the pH. The system does not provide as precise p
re-set pH levels as an electric water ionizer, but the clean factor far outweights
the precision of the pH selection imo. I chose to work with Vitev recently beca
use their products are so effective and affordable. Therefore, I insist on revea
ling my relationship with Vitev each and every time I write about their products
.
===
TDS is a totally different measure because it includes all of the Total Dissolve
d Solids in the water. That means TDS can and usually does contain much more tha
n Ca and Mg. For example, fecal matter and dirt and heavy metals etc are typical
ly found in source water in minute amounts. Therefore, I dont find TDS to be part
icularly relevant unless you have before and after measures such as those I foun
d while investigating the Vitev Remin filter.
ORP is a measure of the electrical charge or conductivity of a liquid expressed
in millivolts. One of the problems in assessing ORP is that the level changes wi
th every measure and it deteriorates over time (rapidly with output from electri
c water ionizers and less rapidly with natural water ionizers).
While the water ionizer industry makes a big deal of how low their ORP numbers go,
I think that once again, the industry doesnt have a clue as to what is important
. The industry clings to anything that can be measured and electrical conductivi
ty can be measured. I have talked to so many people about ORP and like economist
s, everyone has an opinion. The engineers that I talked to in Korea say that the
Japanese scientists who started all of this recomment drinking water over a lon
g term basis with an ORP of -50 and to refrain from drinking water with an ORP l
ower than -400. Dr. Robert Young recommends drinking water at -800 ORP as a prot
ocol for cancer patients in lieu of chemo treatments. Everything I have read doe
s recommend drinking water with a negative ORP, but there is no concensus on the

actual number.
My gut tells me that an ORP level of -180 to -200 makes sense because that is th
e level of an orange while it is still on the tree. I like that level because I
dont think Mother Nature has a marketing agenda.
===
I understand that Vitev is in the process of having official independent lab tes
ting done. On the surface, this process seems easy, but I have learned from a ne
gative experience with Alkastream that the tests have to be set and conducted pr
operly or else the results can easily mislead. The guys at Vitev are going way o
ut of their way to be good guys and do it right in all aspects of their business.th
at is why I have agreed to help them.
===
Your 120 TDS and 9.0 pH results are awesome.
A 9.0 pH is great imo. The companies telling you to buy their machines based upo
n pH levels of 10 to 11 are nuts because I dont think anybody should ever drink w
ater that is that strong unless they are trying to recover from lactic acid buil
dup, or fighting off cancer naturally instead of with chemo.
If the new membrane is still produce 0 TDS, it likely means that your Ca and Mg
contents are probably not far off 80 and 40 ppm respectively. If you have read t
he WHO report, those number should make you smile
===
The citric acid powder is a great cleaner of scale. Many people use vinegar, but
I have found the citric acid to be superior. When I was in the business, we use
d to have to clean machines for customers. We used an aquarium pump and hooked t
he pump up to the ionizing chamber and continuously ran the water through the io
nizing chamber. For those that are not in the business, the easiest way to clean
scale out of a machine is to follow the following instructions:
1) remove the drain line (the outflow line)
2) place the machine over a sink and blow through the drinking line to force the
water out of the ionizing chamber through the drain line
3) plug up the outflow line
4) mix one ounce of citric acid with eight ounces of water in solution
5) turn the drinking line so that it faces the ceiling
6) pour the mixed solution into the drinking line until it starts backing up out
of the drinking line (it is easier if you do this with a syring)
7) leave the solution in the machine for a couple of hours to work away at remov
ing the scale
8) remove the plug from the drain line in the bottom of the machine
9) blow the solution out of the machine by blowing through the drinking line whi
le the machine is in the sink
10) run the machine with pure water for a few minutes
11) test the machine with pH drops
12) repeat if necessary
===
Rob, the scale problem isnt just about the scale. Its also very much about the att
ention owners give to their water ionizer and the instructions dealers give them
. If you see a seller who says their unit never needs cleaning they are probably i
nexperienced.
Hard water IS a problem with water ionizers and it has 3 aspects:
1. The filter; no water ionizer filter has any ability to affect hard water leve
ls and
2. The plates. Even the best of cleanse systems can still accrete minerals.
3. The internal tubes and spout. if you are ina hard water area and you notice y
our flow rate reducing chances are its not the filter blocking up: its very likely
that internal tubing is clogging up like an artery. This IS a problem because i

t needs a tech call or dealer repair to fix it and it WILL happen again. A good
vinegar rinse every 2 weeks for people with hard water is essential no matter wh
at your brand.
===
I also agree with your statement that no water ionizer provides a built-in filte
r that can affect hard water levels. However, a phosphate pre-filter will do an
excellent job of dealing with scaling for up to six months. The phosphate from t
he filter is released into the water supply in very minute amounts just before t
he water enters your water ionizer. The phosphate destabilizes the calcium in th
e water so that it will not form a hard scale on the plates. Scale is still form
ed, but it is soft, and can be flushed away by running acidic water through the
machine slowly for one minute each day.
All plates will get scaled up in the presence of water with a high calcium conte
nt. When it comes to scaling, the plates in an ionizer will precipitate the calc
ium out of the water, just like a hot water tank will cause calcium to precipita
te. The use of a phosphate filter and backwashing with the acidic water will hel
p alleviate the situation.
You are correct that a slowing water flow is usually the sign of scaling. The on
ly other alternative is that the filters are near the end of their useful life,
but the machines will warn you when this happens. I have used the vinegar rinse
and it is a good suggestion. I have found that a citric acid rinse is more effec
tive than vinegar. Citric acid powder can be purchased very economically online
and it can be mixed with water in 8:1 ratio (8 parts water and 1 part citric aci
d).
Hard water scaling is a problem for a lot of machines, but if you follow the abo
ve suggestions, the problem can be controlled.
===
Taking water in its simplest form, it has a natural neutral balance as the two h
ydrogen atoms each have a positive charge and the single oxygen atom has a doubl
e negative charge. This is why pure water is incredibly stable and cant be ionize
d. When we run water over electrically charged plates (electrolysis) in the pres
ence of minerals etc, the water molecules are artificially charged with either a
positive or negative charge. The condition is temporary and the molecules will
end up going back to a neutral state by combining with other positive or negativ
ely charged moleculse. If you have an ORP meter, which measures the electrical c
harge of a liquid in milivolts, you can test this easily by taking a measure of
the ORP of stong alkaline water in a glass. The very low ORP will disappear in s
econds if you shake up the water in the glass. The pH itself will also decline,
but not nearly as quickly as the ORP.
pH is a measure of the availability of Hydrogen ions. Acidic liquids have a high
er concentration of Hydrogen ions (H+) while alkaline liquids have a higher conc
entration of hydroxyl ions (OH-). While the ORP (electrical charge measurement)
recombines to neutral very quickly, the pH is much more resilient. Im not a scien
tist, so I have to defer to the chemists on this one as to why the pH is more re
silient to outside influences. However, based upon my reasearch and testing, the
pH also diminishes over a few days.
===
Personally, I wouldnt waste my money on a $200 counter top RO system that include
s a remin filter.
First off, I would never put a RO system on the counter because in order to get
a system that works properly, it would have to be really big and who wants that
on the counter. Second, while you can buy a really low end RO system at Costco f
or $150, you need to spend $250 to $400 to get a decent system. Thirdly, if you
want someone to provide tech support and a help line and be there when you need
them, you will probably end up paying $500 to $600. Fourth, and most important i

n my opinion, if you add a remin filter, the retail cost of a good bioceramic re
min filter (the filters that last for 2 years instead of 2-6 weeks and a filter
that wont lead to the formation of kidney stones), the retail price of the remin
filter alone is about $250.
Therefore, the least amount of money that I would spend on a RO system with a go
od remin filter would be about $500 which gives you an OK system and a great remin
filter that you will have to buy separately. If you want a high end system and
filter with a support network, you will likely have to buy the system and filter
separately at a cost of about $750 to $850. if you are willing to spend a littl
e more, Vitev offers a stylish slim line combination Ultra for $995. From there,
you can go up to $1,795 for the Aqualiv system or $1,995 for the Pristine Hydro
system which essentially do the same thing as the Vitev Ultra. There are more e
xpensive systems out there, but they dont add anything.
===
Ive been reading up on your blog for a few weeks now and am very grateful for wha
t you do! Could you please elaborate on what differentiates a low end system from
a decent system. Also, can you give specific examples of decent systems, in your ass
essment? It looks like there are only a handful of different units out there wit
h one of a dozen or so brand logos stamped on them, from what I can tell. Thanks
!
Good question. I believe there are about 125 different suppliers of very similar
looking products.
I would buy an American made unit over a unit made anywhere else. I would buy a
WQA Gold Seal unit over one that doesnt have the WQA approval. I would buy a unit
from a place where I can return it and get customer service and tech support. I
would buy a unit with 3 pre-filters over 2 pre-filters. I would buy a unit that
has a chloramine removal filter as one of the two pre-filters because so many m
unicipalities are gravitating towards chloramine. I would want a good quality 50
gpd membrane. I would want a unit with high end fittings and connnectors.
The problem for any online purchase is that it is very difficult to get any answ
ers to your questions. Most people who man the phones dont have a clue.
Better units will have better connectors and fittings.
===
The best drinking water is both clean and healthy (capable of producing stable,
long lasting ionization).
Electric water ionizers fail miserably in terms of the clean half of the equation.
They do produce short term ionization but for the most part they typically fail
in regards to stable ionization unless the source water is full of alkali metal
s such as magnesium, calcium, sodium, and potassium.
Non-electric or natural water ionizers are better than the electric machines whe
n it comes to cleaning, but they are no match for reverse osmosis systems. They
naturally produce stable and long lasting ionization which makes them superior t
o electric water ioinizers in terms of ionization in my opinion.
I dont really understand the theory of if price was not an issue because price is a
lways an issue. I think what you are really asking me is which machine would I c
hoose to receive if somebody was giving me a free machine. If I had to pick one
machine, I have a clear favorite and it is the Vitev ULTRA. It is a unit that co
mbines a top quality American made Reverse Osmosis system with a state of the ar
t Remineralization filter. The unit sells for $995 and you can see it online at
http://www.vitev.com.
I dont want to piss off the guys at Vitev again for supporting their products, bu

t you asked me which machine I think produces the best drinking water. The Vitev
guys asked me to stop writing about their products a month or two ago because t
hey are still working on their story and making final tweaks to their packaging. T
hey are also distancing themselves from the ugliness of the ionizer industry (wh
ich I write about) as they dont want to be associated with all the nonsense that yo
u see online. Every time I wrote about them, they got a bunch of calls and order
s which they were really not ready to handle. It seems crazy to me that a compan
y doesnt want free promotion, but I assume they know what they are doing. Imo, th
ey are way out in front of everybody in the industry in regards to products, pri
cing, and the message, so I have to believe their request for me to continue to be
patient is the right thing to do.
===
My testing shows that the FLO is a great product but it is not nearly as thoroug
h at cleaning the water as an ULTRA. The FLO, and any other non RO system for th
at matter, will not remove bacteria and cysts if they somehow manage to get into
the water supply. The FLO does remove chloramines but at this point in time, I
dont see anything on the Vitev site that tells me that the FLO removes fluoride.
There are activated alumina pre-filters on the market that claim to remove 75% o
f the fluoride from the source water.
I think the FLO is a great product for people that have good quality source wate
r (no bacteria and no fluorides), or for people who live in apartments where the
y are not allowed to drill a hole in the counter. Im fortunate in the fact that I
live in a city with really safe drinking water so I use a FLO in my new home. H
owever, I use the ULTRA at my cottage where I cant rely upon the safety of the so
urce water. I know budget is an issue for a lot of people, but you have to make
sure your drinking water is safe or else your health can be at risk.
I see so many companies claiming to remove bacteria or claim their filters remov
e anything larger than 0.1 or even 0.01 microns, which may lead consumers to bel
ieve that their filters are safe when it comes to removing bacteria. I can point
fingers at a lot of companies that do this and prove that they are misleading t
he public but Im tired of being a watchdog.
Here is simple tip for helping you decide if a machine will actually remove bact
eria. If a unit doesnt have a storage tank, it doesnt remove bacteria. The reason
for this assumption is that you need a membrane with extremely small pores to re
move bacteria sized particles. The size of the pores in a membrane that removes
bacteria typically restrict the production of drinking water to 2 gallons per ho
ur. That means it takes 30 minutes to produce a gallon or approximately 2 ounces
per minute. If a filtration system doesnt have a storage tank, then it doesnt ade
quately filter unsafe water.
===
People that sell water ionizers say a lot of stupid things in an effort to convi
nce the public to buy their machines. The process of ionizing water is really si
mple and can be achieved in a number of ways including both electrolysis and nat
urally. The net effect is the same.
Electric water ionizers act to concentrate the alkali metals found in the source
water at the anode of an ionizing chamber and send that water out the drinking
line. When the water molecules interact with the alkali metals, they ionize the
water because the oxygen component of the water molecule has a stronger attracti
on to the alkali metal than it does to one of the two hydrogen atoms. The free hyd
rogen is the key to the health aspects of a water ionizer. The natural water ion
izers simply introduce alkali metals into the water during the filtration proces
s. The bottom line is that natural ionizers typically produce more stable and lo
ng lasting ionization due to the presence of the alkali metals. The ability of a
n electric water ionizer to produce stable and long lasting ionization is solely
dependent upon the presence of alkali metals in the water.

Once I had conducted extensive testing on natural water ionizers and found them
to be better than electric water ionizers at producing long lasting ionization i
n real life situations, I was determined to find out why. I turned my attention
to the work of Dr. Hidemitsu Hayashi, who I believe is the leading authority in
the world on the subject. He offers a simple explanation (at least it became sim
ple after I reviewed it many times until I got it) of what happens when water inte
racts with alkali metals and other impurities in the water.
The product that I mentioned is from the same Vitev company. They ended up prici
ng the product at $995 because they added some really cool stuff. Im a nuts and bo
lts guy who would rather pay less than more as long as I get the guts. After saying
that, I have to admit that the things they added are pretty innovative and furt
her separate them from anything else that is out there. .
I wrote an article about the product that you mentioned. The company politely (u
nlike the rude yapper from the legal department at Enagic) asked me to remove th
e article..yup.you read that correctly.weird! They were finalizing all the minute d
etails of packaging etc at the time (which Im now told are complete) and working
on the final details of their message. They want to remove themselves from the ugl
y world of water ionizers and didnt want me confusing people with the better than
other water ionizers message as that is what the water ionizer industry is all ab
out. They appreciated the orders that the stories created, but they didnt want to
have items go out that were not to their exact specification and they werent gea
red up to handle the volume. I have to admit that I was surprised at their reque
st, but I assume they know what they are doing.
===
There is almost zero original thinking or research about ionized water machines
available on websites that sell the machines. Everybody just cuts and pastes the
same old stuff. People quote from books that are completely out of date and the
public naturally believes it because they see it over and over again. The vorte
x theory is a perfect example as the original work was done about 80 years I cha
llenged the RO industry for four years and they ignored me or called me an idiot
. They didnt do anything until I bombarded them with scientific studies published
on http://www.pubmed.com which is the US government health site.
It seems that water is the most simple and yet most complex molecule in the worl
d. I have talked to researchers that have studied water for a generation or more
and they all say that they dont even begin to understand water. Im not as smart a
s those people and I dont have government or scholastic or public funding, so Im l
eft to researching the research and writing about it on my blog. When websites t
alk about the memory of water, I have to wonder what they are basing their state
ments on. Can they prove it? Did they do the research? Did they read about it in
a book or a study as what was the basis for the comments in the book or study?
When I comment about water, I do so with the proviso that my comments are based
upon my opinion. My opinions are formed by what I have read (not from water ioni
zers companies trying to sell me something), what I have tested, and what intuit
ively makes sense to me. I respect people like Dr. Hayashi because he publishes
his work and his findings in a scientific manner. While I find it difficult to f
ollow everything at first, I plug along and ask questions until it makes sense t
o me.
OkI have my rant out of the waynow on to your questions:
The RO component of the Vitev Ultra wastes 75% of the source water in the filtra
tion process. The tiny size of the pores in the membrane remove almost all impur
ities (TDS total dissolved solids) from the water. Electric water ionizers waste
about 40% and they remove very little. The electric part of the ionizer concent
rates anions (chlorides, fluorides, sulphates etc) at the cathode which are then
in turn send down the drain with the waste water. Some of the filters used by e

lectric water ionizer companies to provide some filtration but for the most part
, they make unsubstantiated claims. For example, Jupiter/IonWays/AlkaVia claims
that their Biostone filters will filter down to 0.1 mircrons.the claim is not tru
e. Im not trying to pick on whatever they call themselves these days but someone th
at has done some research may believe that the Biostone filter will safely remov
e all cysts and bacteria because of the claim and it is not true.
The fluoride removing claims of the Alkastream were false if you ran the filter
for more than 20-50 liters depending upon the level of fluoride in the water. I
informed that owner of Alkastream in Australia of this but he never changed the
information on his website. The fact that Alkastream never corrected the misconc
eption about fluoride removal was one of many factors that lead the guys in Amer
ica to go in a new direction and create their Vitev products. I think it would b
e folly to assume that anything about the Alkastream has been carried forward to
Vitev. They did sell the Alkastream in America, but the new Vitev products are
far superior and the company philosophy is completely different. The Vitev Flo d
oes not claim to remove fluoride and I appreciate their honesty.
If a filter claims to remove fluoride, it better be using it with a RO system, o
r else they need to publish the volume and capacity of the media included to rem
ove fluoride. Getting rid of fluoride is best left to a distillation or RO syste
m. Claims of 75% removal rate of fluoride from source water are made by the prod
ucers of the activated alumina media. I assume they are true, but there is defin
itely a lack of information available about the amount of time that the fluoride
needs to be exposed to the media.
===
I guess everything is relative to ones point of view. When I think about home dri
nking systems, I think about how much better they are at conserving resources th
an bottled water. I think about how so many of us in North America use lawn spri
nkler systems and wash our cars. How much water is used to flush out water softe
ners at night? Then I think about how many glasses of water it takes to wash a g
lass of water at a restaurant. The list seems endless
Then I think about what the human race is doing to our oceans. How much longer w
ill our oceans be able to sustain life at all given how we poison them every day
?
Humans have taken water for granted since man inhabited the earth. It is only wh
en water is scarce or dangerous to drink that man takes notice. The clock is tic
king.
Every person has to make their own decisions based upon what the feel is importa
nt.
As far as insight and guidance.I dunnoI read, I test, I analyse.and then I guess li
ke the rest of usmost of this stuff is intuitive if one takes the time to think a
bout it. Creating healthy water by natural means seems to make more sense than e
lectrocuting water.adding the right amount of alkali minerals seems to make more
sense than hoping the source water has the right components makes more sense.drinki
ng clean water seems to make more sense. Keeping the wife happy seems to make th
e most sense of all.
===
It sounds like you are entering the water ionizer abyss where there seems to be an
obvious destination but too many road maps on how to get there. As a lover of n
ature, Im predisposed to the natural water ionizers (such as Vitev). When it come
s to water and just about everything else, Mother Nature seemed to have it right
before humans came along.
However, I cant complain about electric water ionizers as they also work, but you
need to drink the water right away and they typically dont filter the water as w
ell as the natural water ionizers (Chanson for example has a really simple filte

r that only takes our chlorine).


If you want acidic water for skin cleansing, I would stick with an electric wate
r ionizer. I still think the EOS Genesis Platinum is the best machine for the mo
ney on the market. Check out http://www.waterhealthcare.ca as they offer the mac
hine for Canadian $949 to cancer patients (about NZD$1,200 with the exchange). I
think the company charges $100 more for people who dont have cancer. Either way,
the total will be a lot less than you are finding in NZ.
The best news in all of this is that you really cant make a bad decision. It basi
cally gets down to getting the best value on a product that suites your needs.
===
You bring up a legitimate point about me not mentioning the highest priced produ
cts of competitive companies. The reason that I quoted $2000 for competitive pro
ducts is that if you do your homework, you can typically buy the highest priced
products in the $2,000 range regardless of what the suggested retail price is. I
have heard lots of stories where the parent companies undercut their own dealer
s to make a sale. Life and Tyent are famous for this disgraceful behavior. One o
f the best things about Enagic is that they never screw their dealers.
I didnt forget Enagics lower priced products, but lets face it, the Enagic dealers
make such a huge deal of the SD501 that potential customers are left feeling th
at they have had to settle if they purchase any other Enagic machine. I believe th
e primary reason that Enagic brought back the Sunus (after saying only weeks bef
ore that the machine was not up to Enagic standards) was to appease the outcry f
rom prospective Enagic dealers who wouldnt or couldnt pay $4,000 to be eligible to
partake in Enagics business opportunity.
Why are you referring to 39 years of experience? Enagic started selling the SD50
1 in 2004. Enagic bought the rights in 2001 to sell Toyos Pureport II and it took
Enagic 2 1/2 years to build their marketing program before they began selling.
I think you will be dismayed to learn that Bob McCaulay used to sell the Purepor
t II in America in the 1990s for about $900 before Enagic took over. MLM systems
come at a very high price to consumers.
I encourage all Enagic dealers to keep up the good work in regards to spreading
the word about the benefits of the water. If someone is willing to pay $4,000 fo
r a machine to cover the cost of so many levels of payout, well, good for them.
At least they are drinking the water. My pet peeve is that Enagic dealers infer
that their products are superior or that other much lower priced products are in
ferior because it simply isnt true. While Enagic products may (or may not) last l
onger, the Enagic products certainly dont produce more healthy water. When you ta
ke into consideration that many competitors offer a lifetime warranty, the air j
ust comes out of the Enagic argument of superiority.
===
I have never heard of an Alkaline Diet Stick.
Im familiar with Hydrogen sticks, which cost between $6 and $13 to buy from China
and sell in the $69 range in America. They are full of Magnesium and they meant
to be placed in a bottle of water with the cap on the bottle. The reaction of t
he water to the magnesium forms hydrogen bubbles on the surface of the stick. Wh
en you want to drink the water, you shake up the bottle to release the hydrogen
bubbles and then remove the cap and drink.
I like the sticks for short trips but would never use them for day to day use. Y
ou typically need about 3-4 of them to work effectively which gets expensive. Th
ey dont filter anything and they are cumbersome to use.
There are stainless water bottles that use a similar concept. They are a little
more convenient as they steep the water with magnesium. I wouldnt recommend this pr

oduct for home use, but it can be taken with you in a car or to a gym or to work
. You just have to wait a long time to get the water to steep.
===
I have spent some time studying the Pristine Hydro site. You will spend half the
money and get a way better machine from Vitev. That is one of the reasons that
I agreed to help Vitev, which in turn is the reason that I stopped writing artic
les on my blog. I dont think it is right for me to continue blogging when I it is
impossible for me to remain unbiased.
===
Based upon extensive personal research, I would never waste money on an electric
water ionizer that has more than 7 plates. In fact, the 5 plate machines are pe
rfectly good when source water conditions are good (where the water is not too h
ard or too soft). Companies like Tyent make ridiculous my Dad is bigger than your
Dad claims about irrelevant factors such as the plate number/size and the amount
of power because they cant be bothered or they wont spend the money to do the res
earch.
Natural is better.it is really that simple. The natural water ionizer achieve the
same results as electric water ionizers (except they dont produce acid water for
cleaning purposes) and they add minerals to the water which most humans need. F
or example, Magnesium is critically important to human health and 97% of America
ns are Magnesium deficient. Everybody knows about the importance of including ca
lcium in their diets because of the advertising done by the Milk Marketing Board
s, but what people dont know is that Calcium cant be properly absorbed without the
presence of Magnesium.
You mentioned the the Vitev Ultra as a possible alternative. It has been a great
product, but Vitev has replaced it with their new MAXX. I have spent the last s
ix months helping Vitev improve on the Ultra and the MAXX is the result. The MAX
X is a superior machine and it costs $795 instead of $995.
===
The EOS Genesis Platinum is a great electric water ionizer. I have tested them a
nd I chat regularly with a guy who has sold hundreds of them. I dont know why any
one would spend more money on any other electric water ionizer. Check out http:/
/www.waterhealthcare.ca to see if they still carry them. I think they sell them
for about $950.
Hard water is just destroys the performance of electric water ionizers. The ioni
zation process quickly scales up the plates which renders the machines virtually
useless.
When I joined Vitev at the beginning of the year, they put me in charge of findi
ng a solution for scaling for their natural water ionizers and RO systems. While
RO systems and natural water ionizers dont suffer nearly as badly from scaling a
s electric water ionizers, their performance is still negatively affected by sca
ling. I looked around the internet to see what solutions were available. The sol
utions ranged from Chansont virtually useless Ionizer Armor to Kangens effective
but ridiculously annoying 5 hour per week soaking solution.
I called up one of my mentors in the water industry. He is the top guy in the wo
rld when it comes to providing solutions for the big water filter companies and
for commercial applications. One of his anti-scaling products is found in virtua
lly every coffee shop in the world. Coffee shops use a lot of hot water and they
cant afford to have scaling shut down or handicap their systems because without
good water, coffee shops go out of business. Based upon my requirements, he desi
gned a pre-filter for me that would take care of hard water scaling problems for
residential water ionizers and reverse osmosis systems using the same technolog
y that he has been using all over the world for many years. You can see the prefilter at: http://www.vitev.com/scale-guard/ The unit sells for $129 with the re
placement filters which should last a year or more costing $99. You can read abo

ut the details on the website. I can tell you is that it works and can be instal
led in seconds.
===
I know a little about the history of the KYK EOS rivalry. In fact, I have visite
d the EOS factory in Korea. The two companies have been suing each other for yea
rs with one decision getting overturned by the next round of lawsuits. It is all
a waste of time imo. The entire water ionizer industry in Korea is incredibly i
ncestuous. EOS manufactured the units for KYK who sold them under their own bran
d name with their own cover plate. EOS also manufactures the same product for ot
her companies as well. All you really need to know is that the units are virtual
ly identical once you remove the front cover plate and the machines are very goo
d.
===
I would get the EOS Genesis Platinum from http://www.waterhealthcare.ca for $950
. You will have to pay for shipping but I imagine the savings would be huge. You
could get the warranty work done in Australia or ship it back to Canada for fre
e (but the shipping would likely be more expensive than the warranty work). The
machines rarely break down.
The one downside is that the EOS takes up a lot of room on the bench as it is a
big sucker.
For my money, I would get the Maxx for $795 from Vitev (you will already be payi
ng for shipping if you get the Scale Guard). In order to get the acid water that
you require for skin care, you could install the Maxx with a bypass that leads
directly from the membrane to a separate tank that holds acidic water. I knowI kn
owI sometimes make decisions more difficult for people. Im a water geek that has s
pent years fooling around with these machines looking for a better way.that doesnt
mean that Im right :)
===
JANUARY 28, 2014
I agreed to help Vitev with their product development in February last year. The
y dont pay me but they do support my research in exchange for the right of first
refusal to sell any products that I develop.
Since last February, I have been busy.but not with blogging. I have written 3 art
icles in the past 11 months as opposed to about 100 per year in the previous thr
ee years. One of the articles was about Dr. Batman and the other two were about
products that I developed that I thought readers might want to know about. I dont
see how two product development articles in a nearly a year means Im promoting a
nyone. You would have to talk to Vitev about what you perceive as a lack of revi
ews. I know that I have had communications with lots of Vitev customers who love
their products, but I would never write about it.
I have developed another new product called VYVwater that Im actually going to ta
ke ownership of and will be promoting myself. I have been begging the water ioni
zer industry for years to create a low cost effective water ionizer that everyon
e can afford. The VYVwater pitcher will sell for $59. It produces alkaline water
(9.5 pH) that adds electrolytes (like Gatorade but with zero calories) and most
important of all, produces plenty of molecular hydrogen (which you will be read
ing alot about in the future)
===
Vitev replaced the Ultra with a much better system called the MAXX about a year
ago. The MAXX system improved upon the Ultra in several ways (easier to change f
ilters, more media in the Remin filter, etc) but the most important upgrade imo
is the addition of a permeate pump (their website has some fancy marketing name
for it). The permeate pump reduces waste water by up to 80% and it refills the h
olding tank up to 4 times faster than normal reverse osmosis systems. And the be
st news of all is that the MAXX costs $200 less than the Ultra was selling for a
nd the company recently added a replacement set of filters which saves another $

199.
You asked about a comparison of the Vitev and Aqualiv products in a follow up co
mment. I have nothing negative to say about the Aqualiv product, but the MAXX is
so much better that the decision is a no-brainer in terms of value and what the
systems offer.
===
If you do your homework, you should be able to purchase the more expensive water
ionizers at a significant discount from the current $2,000 to $2,500 levels. If
you want to take advantage of the deals but are having trouble finding them, se
nd me an email or Skype me, and I will point you in the right direction.
===
I would never consider buying a water ionizer to be a mistake. Water ionizers pr
ovide incredible health benefits for many people, so how could they be a mistake
. They also provide varying levels of acidic water, which are beneficial in a nu
mber of ways. The benefits of acidic water produced by water ionizers range from
providing the cleanest and most effective astringent for cleansing skin, to pro
viding environmentally friendly antiseptic cleaning solutions.
My excitement over the Antioxidant filters is that they provide the same health
benefits as the drinking water supplied by electric based water ionizers plus th
ey are excellent filters of source water contaminants.and the cost at $400 is a f
raction of the cost of an electric based water ionizer.
If money is not an issue, you can hook up a pre-filter system that costs $250 to
a water ionizer that costs $1,500 and you get the benefits of both clean water
and the full spectrum of pH levels produced bya electric based water ionizer.
There is no right or wrong answer as to which machine people should purchase. Bo
th machines provide health benefits and they both have their individual strength
s. Which unit a person buys should depend upon their needs and their budget.
===
A water ionizer is a machine that ionizes water. That means that the machine sep
arates a hydrogen atom from a water molecule which then becomes free hydrogen. T
he free hydrogen atom is almost pure energy that the mitochondria (the tiny powe
r plant found in each cell of our body) uses to keep the cell alive.
===
Enagic dealers do a remarkable job of show casing the benefits of ionized water
and everyone in the entire water ionizer industry should be grateful for their e
fforts.
Imo, the dilemma starts with the business opportunity. Buyers want the best possib
le value. Sellers want to make as much money as possible on an item if it is a o
ne time sale. Enagic draws you in with an outstanding presentation of a good pro
duct. Then they tell you that once you buy a machine, you can turn around and se
ll them for an incredible profit. To the best of my knowledge, the SD501 costs b
etween $500 and $600 to manufacture. Enagic marks up the price to about $1,700 t
o cover their marketing costs and generate about $1,000 profit per machine befor
e introducing the machines to their direct sales marketing team. Ultimately, the
consumer pays $4,000 for a machine that costs about $500 to $600 in the first p
lace.
As a seller, the business opportunity seems to be almost too good to be true. As
a consumer, Enagics corporate profit and the commissions earned by the dealers ar
e offensive. The net result is a philosophical dilemma. I find it amazing how ma
ny people let greed win out over logic despite the fact that they will knowingly
end up selling over priced products to their friends and family. The inflated p
rice would be irrelevent because of the wonderful benefits unless much more affo
rdable units were available.

Imo, the best man made drinking water in the world is produced by the Vitev ULTR
A (see http://www.vitev.com). The ULTRA is a combination of a high quality Ameri
can made reverse osmosis system to remove virtually all of the contaminants from
the waterand what I believe is the best remineralization filter on the market to
provide magnificent natural ionization. The unit also comes with a tap that allo
ws you to adjust the pH level of the water from abou 6.0 to 11.0 depending upon
the source water. The Kangen people and the other sellers of lower priced electr
ic water ionizers will attemp to tell you that the non-electric or natural water
ionizers dont work, but that is a load of crap. They may also tell you that they
wont produce the super low 2.5 pH level that can be achieved by an SD501 if you
add their bleach solution which is true. However, the loss of a powerful disinfe
ctant for cleaning from a non-electric machine is a small price to pay when you
consider that the Enagic machines wont remove fluoride or chloramines or most of
the 60,000 chemical contaminants that find their way into our water supply.
The ULTRA is flat out a far superior machine to the Enaic SD501 or any other ele
ctric water ionizer.
Now lets talk about money. The ULTRA sells for $995 while the Enagic SD501 sells
for $3,980.
I have spent four years of my life learning about what makes the best drinking w
ater and finding a way to make it affordable. Vitev has done it. I have always t
ried to remain unbiased and I continue to do so. From time to time, I lean towar
ds one product or another because they offer the best results or the best value.
At this point in time, Vitev is just killing everyone. Very few people know abo
ut Vitev right now, but I believe that is going to change.
The strangest thing for me about Vitev is that they asked me to stop writing sto
ries about their products. They are selling their products online, but they cont
inue to tweak their story and their system. Their story is about simplicity and en
ergy as opposed to the ugly world of water ionizers. Every time I write an artic
le about Vitev, they get lots of calls and sales which they claim just slows the
m down. I have been offered all kinds of jobs with different water ionizer compa
nies which I have always turned down for one reason or another. The irony just d
rips here because I support Vitev for nothing and they dont want my help. I just
hope that one day when they are ready to take the brakes off that the call me an
d say we want you to work with us because I would do it in a heart beat.
===
If you want purified water that provides the benefits of antioxidant alkaline wa
ter, all you need is an affordable Antioxidant Filter.
If can afford a water ionizer and a pre-filter system, you can have the added be
nefits of receiving strong and weak acidic water, and very high alkaline water t
hat will remove pesticides from the surface of fruits and vegetables. The additi
onal three benefits are great to have.
My wife loves the 5.5 pH beauty water as she uses it to wash her face and even to
rinse her hair after she has used shampoo in her hair. You can buy 5.5 pH water
very inexpensively from a grocery store in the form of Aquafina bottled water wh
ich is made by Pepsi, but it is not as convenient.
Some people use the strong acidic water as a disinfectant. We have tried it and
it works, but we never seem to get around to it. The strong acidic water is defi
nitely a green solution that we should all aspire to.
Soaking fruits and vegetables in 11.0 pH alkaline water does help remove pestici
des from fruits and vegetables. However, it does take a long time to fill a sink
with the water and the operating manuals do suggest soaking the fruits and vege
tables for 20 to 30 minutes. At our house, we dont seem to use this great feature

very often because we never seem to have the time, which is more of a comment a
bout our busy lives than a criticism of water ionizers. Typically, my wife just
buys organic fruits and veggies now that they are more competitively priced.
===
There is no magic bullet for everyone, but water ionizers and the antixidant wat
er filters do an amazing job.
Dr. Hayashis hydrogen sticks do product a negative ORP, but only to a limited deg
ree. The antioxidant water filter that I have been testing is much more sophisti
cated, powerful, and user friendly than a hydrogen stick, but the concept is the
same.
Based upon my tests on the Alkastream unit (the only AFW that I have at my dispo
sal to test) and several of the leading water ionizers all provide virtually ide
ntical pH and ORP values when I tested the water ionizers when they were set to
deliver drinking water. In other words, the output of both types of machines is
the same.
I have been emailing back and forth with one of our readers (Gabe) who is puttin
g together a slide presentation showing how the AWF actually works.
I always had the same idea about ORP that you do. When I visited a number of fac
tories in Korea in April of this year, I was able to speak with the engineers as
opposed to the sales people. The engineers always spoke about the importance of
free hydrogen and they completely downplayed the value of the ORP measurement.
When I started researching the AWF machines, I came to realise that Dr. Hayashi
has been saying the same thing for the past ten years.
It took me a while to figure out what Dr. Hayashi was saying, but I finally got i
t when I spent some time working on a Periodic Table in conjunction with Dr. Haya
shis equation for the formation of free oxygen. Basically, when you run water thr
ough a magnesium media, the weak hydrogen bond in water is broken as the electro
n hungry oxygen atom is attracted to the more surplus electrons supplied by the
Magnesium atom. The net result of the reaction is that magnesiim hydroxide Mg(OH
)2 is formed which is a powerful electrolyte. The net result is that the liberat
ed hydrogen atoms form free hydrogen, which is what neutralizes the harmful free
oxygen that we have in our bodies. Dr. Hayashi maintains that the ultimate reduc
er is free hydrogen as the H atom of H2 molecule will donate its electrons to the
free oxygen, there by forming water which is harmless.
I once believed that it was ONLY the process of electrolysis that antioxidants a
s you have noted. I now understand that is not the case. When water reacts with
Cations (electron donating atoms) such as Calcium of Magnesium, ionization occur
s naturally. I can give you a perfect example of this. When I used to sell water
ionizers, one of the biggest problems that we had was dealing with customers wh
o phoned in when they first hooked up their machines. When they tested the water
with the pH reagent drops, they found that the test results produced purple wat
er for all levels of ionization and even for the unionized pure water. The custome
rs naturally thought that their machines were too strong or didnt work. I had to
explain to customers that the companies that built the machines packed calcium o
r magnesium into the filters when they were new and that as soon as the first co
uple of hundred litres of water had passed through, the problem would disappear,
which was true. What we didnt discover until we had been at it for awhile was th
at in soft water conditions, after about six weeks, the machines produced only g
reen water test results when the pH reagent drops were added. The reason for thi
s was that there were not enough minerals in the water to provide adequate ioniz
ation. For the companies selling the machines, this was not as big a problem as
you might think because almost every customer stops testing their machine after
the first week or two. However the results were not as good as advertised. I had
to learn all this by myself because the company I worked for provided nothing a

nd in fact didnt even know about the problem. My solution was to send customers r
emineralization filters that put Calcium and or Magnesium into the water supply. T
he remineralization filters had to be changed every six months, but at least the
y allowed for proper ionization.
So, what was really going on? The calcium or magnesium in the new filters produc
ed its own ionization and corresponding strong pH and ORP values, even when the
ionization chamber was not being activated (which is what happens when you press
the Pure of Clean button). As the calcium and magnesium wore off, the machines st
opped producing effective pH and ORP values unless the source water had enough m
inerals to create the ionization. So what did the water ionizer companies do? Th
e promoted bigger is better. More plates and more power. They found they could com
pensate for a shortfall of minerals in the water by applying more and more power
. Instead of fixing the filter content problems, they just added more power beca
use it was something they could charge more money for.
When I was in Korea, the engineers thought that you Americans were stupid. I heard
it more than once. The explained that the extra power was not needed and was ac
tually harmful because it eroded the platinum coating on the titanium plates fas
ter, which represented a health risk.
Dr. Hayashi came to the same conclusion ten year ago. He has been telling us sin
ce 2001 that we didnt need electrolysis at all to produce the healthy benefits fr
om the water. He has been telling us all these years that all that was needed wa
s to run water through a magnesium medium and to use magnetics to provide longer
term stability to the free hydrogen. His chosen method was the hydrogen stick.
The new AWFs do the same thing as the sticks, but much more effectively and effi
ciently, and they also purify the water first.
===
AquaLiv is the American representative for the Hydrogen sticks sold by Dr. Hayas
hi.
Craig Hoffman, the owner of AquaLiv is Dr. Hayashis defacto desciple in America.
I have called Craig a couple of times but have never had the opportunity to spea
k with him. I have spoken to his wife/partner a couple of times and she is very
knowledgable about Hydrogen ion theory.
Craig has written some very interesting material about the properties or capabil
ities of water. I think some of it is pretty far fetched, but Im willing to keep
an open mind on the subject. The fact that he is reaching out and trying to unde
rstand the mysteries of water makes him one of my favorites.
Craign also has some interesting thoughts on hyrodogen, or more specifically hyd
rogen ions. I assume Craig has learned from his ongoing association with Dr. Hay
ash,i and uses Dr. Hayashis experience and knowledge as the basis for his writing
. Dr. Hayashi believes that hydrogen ions are the perfect solution for eliminati
ng free oxygen (free radicals) from the body, and as such, are the ideal antioxi
dant. His explanation makes more sense to me than anything else I have ever stud
ied on the subject. Dr. Hayashis experience in working with ionized water is unma
tched and I think he is the leading authority on the subject of ionized water in
the world.
I like his theory of the disassociation dance, as it makes perfect sense to me. Cr
aig believes that hydrogen ions created from the interaction of water with miner
als such as magnesium, are much more stable than hydrogen ions created from elec
trolysis. His thinking is that the ions created from electrolysis are temporary
and unstable. I have to agree with the theory and there is a simple test that ba
cks up his thinking.
===
Since you want acidic water (cleaning and beautify), you will want to get an ele
ctric water ionizer. I think the best value when it comes to electric water ioni

zers is the EOS Genesis Platinum. Imo, they continue to be as good as or better
than any machine on the market. I wont get into technical details, but they have
a really intelligent back office that allows for technical adjustments. The units
retail for $1,695 but you can buy them from http://www.waterhealthcare.ca for $9
50 in Canadian funds which will save you another 10% if you are an American.
I use a Vitev Maxx at home. It is a unit that combines a Reverse Osmosis system
with a natural Remineralizing filter. I believe the Vitev Maxx offers the best o
f both clean and healthy water and it sells for $795. The unit may not satisfy your
needs as it doesnt provide acidic water that you would use for cleaning. My wife
uses an acidic water maker than cost her about $200.
===
At the current time, nobody should pay more that $1,500 for a high quality water
ionizer. At least two nationally recognized brands are available in the $1,500
range and the higher priced models can also be purchased at the $1,500 level if
you do your homework. If you need help finding lower prices on the $2,000 to $2,
500 machines, send me an email and I will point you in the right direction. It w
ill then be up to you as to which brand you buy and where you buy it.
===
Ive been thinking about this a bit lately, and I think its going to be getting har
der and harder for the full-spectrum manufacturers to justify the low pH or beau
ty water when other options are available now. For less than $200 you can get a
hand-held ionizer like you spotlighted herehttp://www.waterfyi.com/water-news/bil
l-nye-%E2%80%9Cthe-science-guy%E2%80%9D-explains-acidic-ionized-water/, and find
ing beauty water is as easy as picking up a gallon of cheap bottled water.
Customers can now create water from 2.5-9.5 for $600 and spend $1/week on the be
auty. Which means removing pesticides have to be worth spending another $900.
Im beginning to think the full-spectrum machines niche will be where larger quant
ities of water need to be created quicker. Like sport teams locker rooms, medical
clinics, etc.
===
I have nothing but good things to say about full spectrum water ionizers other t
han most of them are grossly overpriced. The full spectrum water ionizers produc
e three things that the antioxidant water filters cant provide. ONEbeauty acidic w
ater TWOdisinfecting acidic water THREEemulsifying pH water
People use the drinking water from a water ionizer about 30 times as much as the
y use the machines for all other purposes. As you have pointed out, there are al
ternative and more cost effective wayst to obtain the beauty water, disinfecting
water, and emulsifying water.
The beauty water that my wife loves has a pH of about 5.5 and you can get virtuall
y the same pH from a bottle of Aquasana sold by Pepsi. I wonder what Pepsi would
think if they knew we were recommending using their bottled water as a skin fre
shener.
I have a product called an E2 Spray in my house which I picked up when I was in
Korea from a company called Hung Sung E&E. The product consists of a pitcher tha
t is about a quart and a half that sits in a base. When you put a tiny amount of
salt into the water and turn the switch on the base, the machine produces very
strong acidic water that can be used for cleaning. The unit retail for $299, but
it can and should sell for about $100 less if not lower.
I dont have a ready solution for emulsifying the pesticides and other petrochemic
als off of fruit and vegetables. The solution is bleach, but the idea of putttin
g a small amount of bleach into water that Im trying to use to clean my food does
nt appeal to me. If anyone out there has a solution, please let us know. Anyone t
hat doesnt want to have to deal with pesticides on their food can buy from an org

anic store. Buying from an organic store used to be a lot more expensive, but th
ese days, the cost is very close. I would always choose organic foods over using
a water ionizer to remove the pesticides because you are supposed to so the foo
d for 20-30 minutes and I dont have time for that. In addition, unless you are pr
epared to test your ionizer each time, you never know if you machine is actually
producing a pH that is high enough to emulsify the pesticides. The reason for t
hat is that source water changes all the time and the output from a water ionzer
is highly dependent upon the source water.
Your analysis is about the same as mine.I just used more words :)
===
The stomach is like the bladder of a football which basically makes it a holding
tankit doesnt have a pH at all. The gastric juices produced by the cells in the w
alls of the stomach adjust the ph level of the contents of the stomach.
Saying that drinking alkaline water will raise the pH to an unhealthy level whic
h impedes digestion is the same thing as saying dont eat salads or fruit or nuts
and seeds with your meal because they do the same thing. I will check out Dr. Lo
di because surely he cant be so poorly misinformed.
Saying that alkaline water is likely neutralized by the acid in the stomach is a
no-brainer because of course it is. What Dr Loscalzo isnt telling you is that wh
ile HCl is being produced to add acid, an alkaline bicarbonate is being produced
as the balancing side of the chemical equation which enters the small intestine
to help with the absorption of food.
I have a lot of respect for medical doctors because my dad was a doctor. However
, medical doctors know very little about how to get healthy and stay healthy bec
ause they are never educated about the matter. When readers start quoting medica
l doctors about health, Im always skeptical unless the doctors have studied natur
al medicine.
===
How is this ridiculous? What is the difference to the stomach between eating alk
aline foods and drinking alkaline water. The cells in stomach wall certainly dont
differentiate between the two. I never hear anyone talking about getting too al
kaline from eating fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds.
When the biofeedback system in the cells of the stomach wall determine that the
pH level of the stomach needs to be elevated, they will produce HCl. The flip si
de of the equation is that they will also produce a form of bicarbonate dependin
g upon what is available (Na+, K+). It is the formation of the bicarbonate that
is relevant as the bicarb enters the small intestine at a pH of 8.2. The net eff
ect of neutralizing the elevated pH in the stomach ends up being the same post s
tomach.
===
In regards to hard water, a Hydrogen machine is the ideal solution. The units of
fered by Alkastream are using an ion exchange, which is like a mini water soften
er. Hydrogen machines will never have scaling problems like you get with water i
onizers because they dont use electrolysis to create the ionization.
Electrolysis precipitates calcium out of the water, which is why you sometimes s
ee white specs or a foggy-like layer on your drinking glass or glass bottles whe
n using a water ionizer. When calcium precipates out of the water in the ionizat
ion chamber of a water ionizer during electrolysis, the calcium forms a hard sca
le on the platinum coated titanium plates. When the plates get covered with scal
e, they stop being effective and your test results when using the pH reagent wil
l produce green water instead of blue or purple water. When I was in the busines
s, most of the customer complaints were about the machine not working when there
was nothing wrong with the machine at all other than the plates were scaled up.
===

I believe everybody with a water ionizer should have a pre-filtration system no


matter which brand people choose.
When I was in the business, we made it a point to learn what was in our customers
source water so that we could best serve their needs. I wish everyone in the wa
ter ionizer industry would focus on their customer needs, which starts with sour
ce water. Source water is a huge factor in the performance of any water ionizer,
so it is only logical to start with filtration first, whether you are spending
$400 or $4,000 on a water machine.
===
I dont know what the effect of the $400 machines will ultimately be, but I had a
couple or really encouraging calls today.
I spoke to a lady from California tonight that contacted me through the blog. Sh
e has been on a disability pension for many years and as such has very limited d
isposable income. She has been saving for a water ionizer for over a year and su
ddenly she can afford one. Now that is encouraging!
I also had a conversation with a Kangen distributor today who has sold nearly 10
0 Enagic SD501s. He is a health care practioner that sees a lot of patients over
the course of a year. He told me the tough economy has really hurt his Enagic sa
les. He said that if the Hydrogen machines work well, he thinks most of his pati
ents will want a $400 machine. He was really excited about being able to help ou
t his patients. He didnt even bother to ask me if I knew anything about how the c
ompanies pay distributors or if they were MLM or not. Now that is encouraging!
===
The Hydrogen machines obtain their results by running water through a magnesium
media. The oxygen in the water binds with the positely charged component of the
magnesium, thereby leaving free hydrogen. Dr. Hayashi began telling the world te
n years ago that he supported the belief that free hydrogen is the key to healin
g and that the relevence of ORP was highly over stated.
===
Rob, as an exE I couldnt agree with you more. 99% of the people I knew in Enagic we
re in it for the health benefits that ionized water provided, and they sincerely
believed that the SD501 was the very, very best. We were taught from get-go tha
t everything else was inferior, and that other companies lies on the internet were
in defense of their inferior product.
You know, today I just dont know if there IS a superior electronic ionizer. My expe
rience with Enagic was good, not outstanding. It doesnt work well in soft water a
reas, it creates icky calcium excretions in hard water areas, requires monthly c
leaning and a trip back to Torrance one a year, and the touted high ORP (f you a
rent living where water is soft) is too much for so many people. The tech support
sucks Japanese speaking bad English and I never got the answers I needed about
pre-filters and other issues. I learned more from calling IonLife/Jupiter tech s
upport OMG the evil empire!
I still am leary of mesh plates for a number of what I think are valid reasons b
ased on conversations with metallurgical engineers its all in the composition of
the titanium alloy. But all ionizers produce dirty water according to Dr. Hayashi,
father of the water ionizer industry. Aside from that issue, I think most modern
ionizers do a good job of delivering ionized, alkaline water and the attendant h
ealth results if people dont screw it up by drinking alcohol, soda, and eating a
crappy diet.
I also know as an ExE that 90% of people who bought an Enagic machine are NOT acti
ve in the business because their circle of friends/family thought they were nuts
for spending $4k on some water machine.Only a very small percentage were profes
sional marketers, and most of them live in Orange County! If the 90%ers could gi
ve all their loved ones one to use, (or even water that stayed stable for more t

han a few hours,) they know these friends/family would FEEL THE DIFFERENCE but t
hey cant afford to give them away. They want to get their loved ones on a healthy
water regimen, but its out of their reach financially.
So when you talk about $400 hydrogen machines and yes, I am very familiar with H
ayashis position that free hydrogen is the determining factor for the health effe
cts I am jumping up and down. Cant wait to try one, buy a bunch for my family, to
sell them, recommend them and all that jazz. I know other current and ExEs will
be doing the same. Thanks for letting us know about the new era in healthy water
!
===
You are correct that you cant adjust the pH or ORP levels on the machines itself.
However, you can control the volume of the water flow with the tap or with a fl
ow valve that comes with the machine. Just like a water ionizer, the performance
of the machine is depenedent upon the rate of water flow. In a water ionizer, t
he water flows over an ionization chamber while in a Hydrogen machine, the water
flows through a media that causes the ionization. When I increased the flow rat
e from 1 litre/quart per minute to 2 and then to 3 litres/quarts per minute, the
pH level dropped down to about 9.2 and 8.6 respectively.
You can also limit the amount of water you drink each day when you begin and gra
dually add volume. I read in the manual for the Alkastream that you should start
out drinking the same amount of water as you normally do and then add one 8 oun
ce glass per day each week until you reach the desired volume of water for your
body weight and circumstances. This makes sense to me as most people in our soci
ety dont drink enough water.
I see the Hydrogen machine as ideal for people that are healthy and want to stay
healthy. If I was really sick or I had skin problems, I would opt for a water i
onizer over a Hydrogen machine. The reason for that is due to the fact that if I
was really sick, a water ionizer could provide me with really strong pH and ORP
levels to combat things like cancer. If I had skin issues, a water ionizer coul
d produce acidic water that I could use for exteral treatiment.
There is no magic bullet to fix all things or to serve everyones needs or budget.
The great thing about the new Hydrogen machines is that they are perfect for po
eple who want very clean water and a steady diet of alkaline waterat a price that
is affordable to virtually everyone. Water ionizers offer additional options at
a higher price. I love them both.
===
Ive long been aware of the whole issue of precise pH. Ionizers that have a set pH
value on the dial, as if youre actually going to get that pH, are the hardest of
all to use. The fact is that your source water has a pH that is in constant flu
x, usually related to the day the worker at the processing plant chucks a bag of
lime into the mix. Here at home it can vary from 7.2 to 8.9! So given that an e
lectronic water ionizer cant actually change the input pH, this means that the pH
9 printed next to the button on the face of the machine means little.
Further, unless you have the ability to zero your machine, that is, to test your w
ater and decide that is the benchmark pH you are going to use for tap water inpu
t, the button you press will mean even less. Ive only seen one water ionizer that
has this ability, and it also has the ability to adjust power to achieve a set
pH RELATIVE to that set benchmark as the water flows through the system. This is
way beyond other units pH regulation ability. Remember, Im not saying it will gi
ve you exact pH. Im just saying it will adjust power to achieve exact pH relative
to your set benchmark pH.
The AlkaStream takes quite a different and unique approach because it absorbs mi
nerals into the ion exchange resin first. This removes pH. Then it adds its own mi
nerals to reinstate pH as well as ionizing the water using its own supply of ioniz

ing minerals and magnetics. So in comparison to water ionizers, its cleansing you
r source water, then creating its own ionized alkaline water.
Of course, the limitation, like electric water ionizers, is that you must contro
l the flow and keep your filter in good condition.
===
From what I just read, I think what you are really saying is that the Alkastream
takes the guesswork out of the output pH level because it strips the water to r
emove the impurities and then it remineralizes and magnetizes the water to provi
de a predictable result. Very cool.
===
I dont know exactly how much the filters will cost, as none of the companies have
declared their prices yet. The people at Alkastream seem to be hedging at a pri
ce in the $100 range, but to my knowledge, they have not set the final price. I
read in the AlkaStream manual that I received that their filters will last 5,000
litres unless the source water has fluoride. Therefore, it sounds like an annua
l cost of $100 for every 5,000 litres of water. The cool thing about the Antioxi
dant water filters is that they dont waste 1/3 to 1/2 of the water as acidic wate
r, so the filter will last much longer than a water ionizer.
If you have fluoride in your source water, you should change the filter every si
x months to insure that the fluoride is removed. I suppose you could live with t
he fluoride after six months until the filter has used up 5,000 litres, but I wo
uldnt. Pure ionized water for $200 per year seems like incredible value to me. Th
e filters for water ionizers typically cost about $200 per year and they dont pur
ify the water.
===
In some ways it hurts me to see the questions and confusion you feel after resea
rching the various products. Its the same problem that so many have to deal with
when they are trying to learn about electric ionizers. They are trying to make t
he best decision possible because they are getting ready to spend $2-4K and inst
ead of getting good information, they get the same story from each brand. Ours is
the best and the others suck. After a while, it becomes frustrating and they giv
e up.
Thats what has made Robs blog so great. Hes not biasedexcept on price! He knows that
all machines produce good water. There are pluses and minuses of each, but noth
ing as significant as the tyents, lifeionizers, chansons, etc would make you bel
ieve. Instead of acknowledging each other and trying to increase awareness acros
s the country (and therefore raise our level of health), they fight and cut each
other down.
I posted a message on the Revolutionizers facebook page last week because theyre a
lready started the same tactic. Dont be fooled by cheap imitations. Its a shot at an
yone who charges less than their $500. I simply asked that we play by more civil
rules. The alkaline water filters are giving us the chance to start over. To do
it right. To be honest and transparent. To actually admit that a competitor may
be a good unit. Its just different than what they offer. I dont see the local Hon
da dealer pointing fingers and saying the Toyotas suck and dont work. Because they
know wed look at them like they were stupid. Somehow though, that same logic doe
snt apply here.
So what did the Rev folks do. They deleted my post the following day.
Anywhojust a little venting when I should be relaxing and happy that I made 4 peo
ples day today. Theyve been waiting for an affordable option for a long time now,
and are overjoyed that its finally here. That feeling is even better than the way
the water makes you feel.
===
Im proud to say that I know you. From the first day that you showed up on this bl

og, it has been clear that you keep an open mind and actually want to help peopl
e.
It is not surprising but it is disheartening to hear that the Revoltionizer peop
le snubbed your attempt to play fair and work together. I hope you dont give up o
n them.
My experiences in the water ionizer business were wonderful when it came to deal
ing with and helping people. However, my dealings with the short sighted owners
of the various companies left me with no doubt as to why the industry has langui
shed when it should be flourishing.
When I removed myself from the industry and offered to help anyone who wanted to
build the industry and help others, I thought that I would be able to build bri
dges. Instead, I have had a death threat and a number of threats of litigation f
rom the owners in the industry. If they would stop being so greedy and work towa
rds helping others, everyone would be so much better off.
I expect it will take time to right the ship, but with people like yourself doin
g things the right way, I have hope that the future is bright.
===
The Antioxidant Filters obviously dont have the same range of pH levels as a trad
itional water ionizer, but as you can see, you can adjust the pH and and ORP by
simply adjusting the water flow rate.
It is hard to imagine that a $400 water purifier that provides alkaline water ca
n produce a -726 ORP electrical charge in the water, but obviously it does. I ha
ve been getting feedback from all over the USA from professionals who have been
testing the machine and the results are stunning. Dr. Robert Young recommends ve
ry strong ORP levels like you achieved as a natural replacement therapy for chem
otherapy.
I have been working on a article comparing or more specifically, relating free h
ydrogen to hydroxyl ions. I have been researching and accumulating information t
hat indicates to me that the key to improving ones health is indeed free hydroge
n. The evidence that I have accumulated so far points to the fact that the Anito
xidant Filters are actually superior to water ionizers in terms of healthy drink
ing water.
The only reason I havent published the article yet is due to the fact that I know
from personal experience and from talking to hundreds of other people that wate
r ionizers also provide incredible health benefits. The missing piece for me at
the moment is trying to determine if the water from electric water ionizers cont
ains free hydrogen in atomic form as well as the free hydrogen that it produces
in the form of the bubbles you see when the water first comes out of a water ion
izer. I expect that the water produced by electric water ionizers does indeed co
ntain free hydrogen above and beyond the bubbles that rise to the surface of the
water and are lost. The problem with this entire arguement is that Dr. Hayashi
is the only person that I know who has a machine that will test the presence of
free hydrogen in water and he is not sharing. Im a big fan of Dr. Hayashi;s work,
but it bugs me that he wont share his machine with the world. How much money does
the man need to be safe and secure? He obviously developed the machine when his
research was being funded by the Japanese government while he was heading up th
e Japanese Water Institute from 1985 to 2000.
Not everyone experiences detox symptoms when they first start on the water. If y
our diet was somewhat or very alkaline to begin with due to a proper diet, you w
ould not likely experience any detox symptoms. Based upon all the feedback I hav
e been receiving so far from the various industry pros that have been testing th
e water, I would have to say that the health benefits from the water from the An

tioxidant Filters is definitely as good as the water that they were drinking from
their water ionizers. In fact, virtually everyone has reported that they definit
ely like the taste of the water better than from any water ionizer they have eve
r tested. In addition, I have heard from several people that they have found tha
t their energy level has improved since they began testing the new machine.
Congratulations are in order on your decision to try and become healthy. Everyon
e that is sick wants to become healthy, but not enough people actually do someth
ing about it. Drinking four liters of alkaline ionized water per day is alot, bu
t is often necessary to repair a sick body. For standard daily use, most people sh
ould drink about 2 1/2 liters of water per day. Since most of us ingest about 1/
2 a liter of water from our food, a reasonable consumption level for the average
person should be about 2 liters per day. The question is: What is average?. Is th
at something like 2.5 kids? The Olympians that I work with drink 6-8 liters of w
ater per day while they are training, and the cancer patients that I have spoken
try to drink, 6 liters per day. That is a lot of water for those of you that ha
ve never thought about it.
===
You can purchase the meters online on ebay or other sites. I have had good luck
with the Hannah product, but there are a number of other meters available.
When I first got involved with water ionizers, I used to put a lot of value into
the ORP measure. I have since learned that it is not the big deal that I once t
hought. The old pros in Korea tell me that we should be drinking water with a pH
of about 8.5 and a small negative ORP of slightly negative to perhaps -200 at t
he most. The crazy low ORP numbers that we get from electric water ionizers are
great for detoxing but they just dont make sense over the long haul. The Alkastre
am provides strong numbers for a couple of weeks but then backs off. You get the
same type of response from most of the electric water ionizers in that their fi
lters arrive packed with minerals but the minerals quickly wear off. After that,
the electric machines pound the power to the water to extract as much temporary
ionization as possible out of the minerals that are in the source water. Its all
good as long as you drink the water within the first few seconds as the negativ
e charges disappear quickly if the water is exposed to air or is jiggled around.
===
I sent you a link to what I think is the best system. I havent tested the hexagon
machine but I have tested the others. I have most of the the systems you mentio
ned in my house. My wife uses the Vitev Maxx for cooking and for coffee as it pr
oduces lots of volume instantly, but everyone prefers the taste of the VYVwater
pitcher.
In terms of ionizing performance, they all work. The Maxx is obviously the best
when it comes to cleaning the water because it incorporates an RO system.
===
The antioxidant filters are a really cool concept, because the filters are basic
ally allowing the user to create the ideal natural drinking water. Of course the wat
er output has been influenced by man, but the process and the materials are natura
l. I expect that the antioxidant filters will improve over time as the companies
tweak the compositon of the contents of the filters.
I would never drink water with a pH over 10 unless I was trying to combat cancer
. However, I supplied a number of our Olympians with machines when I was in the
business and they just let it rip when it came to pH. However, they are not like
normal citizens as their bodies are highly tuned machines that produce a huge a
mount of lactic acid from extensive training. The industry experts that I have t
alked to in Korea suggest drinking water with a pH of 8 to 9 over the long haul.
Natural water ionizers produce much more stable and hence long lasting ionizatio
n because the ultimate level of ionization depends upon the lelvel of minerals i
n the water. While pH levels remain fairly stable in electric water ionized wate

r, the ORP, which is a measure of the ability of the water to reduce oxidation i
s much more consistent and stable with an antioxidant filter. While electric wat
er ionizers can produce stronger results initially, the results will always retu
rn to a stable level based upon the mineral content of the water.
===
I expect it will take time for the players in the water ionizer industry to acce
pt that the non-electric water ionizers are the future of the industry. I agree
with you that many will have a difficult time in adjusting to the new technology
and other will never allow themselves to accept the shift. A perfect example of
this type of thinking can be seen in the vast majority of Enagic Dealers who cl
ing to their belief system despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
===
Whole House Water Filter Systems
Home Water Filtration Systems
===
I really havent spent any significant amount of time investigating RO systems. Th
ey seem to fall in 4 categories. The first is the Chinese stuff available for ab
out $150 that I wouldnt buy myself. Another is the American made stuff that seems
to sell in the $200 to $300 range (you will pay more if you hire a company to i
nstall it). The third is the specialty systems which range in price from Vitevs $
995 Ultra (my favorite in the category) to units that are in the $1,800 to $2,00
0 range. There is also a forth category that I would strongly recommend staying
away from at that is the group of units that are sold by door to door salesmen f
or $3,000 to $4,000 which is insane because they are clearly not worth it.
===
I don t know who wrote the quote in your comment but it is interesting. In a pe
rfect world, I would drink the water produced by an electric or natural water io
nizer withing seconds of it being produced so that I would then be consuming the
maximum amount of molecular hydrogen. H2 is lighter than water which means it
rises to the surface in a container of water. The H2 dissipates as soon as it i
nteracts with air.
===
My Dad was a great MD and my mentor. I miss him and I know we would have enthusi
astic battles about my belief the role of MDs in todays world.
Doctors are good people, they are bright, and they are disciplined. However, I f
ind it insulting to my intelligence that doctors are not trained in the area of
instructing their patients about how to be healthy. On the flipside, I also find
it insulting to my senses when people cross the line from good intentions to be
come marketing wh***s.
===
I dont know what fluoride arsenic filters are. I assume you are talking about Act
ivated Alumina filters that are sold for removing fluoride. Unfortunately, they
dont work in most applications because the pH of the tap water most people receiv
e is well over 7.0 which makes the media almost if not completely ineffective.
===
I dont know who you are referring to when you say that my connections would love
for all their competition to disappear so they can take over. I dont have any aff
iliation to any company. I have been accused of supporting a number of companies
and it is simply not true. I want all the companies to flourish, as long as the
y operate in an ethical and honest manner. I believe competition is healthy and
good for the consumer.
If a customer is confused or unsure, they will not buy. In the same way, if a de
aler is confused or unsure, they will not sell. That is why I hate the idea of d
istributors undermining their own dealers by selling to the public at a discount
. Tyent and Chanson and Waterforlife USA have a long history of undercutting the
ir own dealers. You said it yourself that you would rather do the research and s
ave a few hundred dollars. How to you think the dealers feel about that?

Dealers pay more for their machines than distributors because the distributors m
ake a profit from every machine sold by a dealer. Dealers also pay for advertisi
ng to market the brand and spend a lot of time educating their potential custome
rs. Dealers often direct their prospects to the website of the distributor becau
se the distributor has typically spent a lot of time and money creating a good w
ebsite. Unfortunately for the dealer, a significant percentage of customers end
up calling the distributor before they buy a machine. The calls are made in an e
ffort to obtain more information and to see if they can purchase the machine for
a discount. When a distributor sells to the public (which it sounds like happen
ed in your situation) at a discount, the distributor is effectively stabbing the
dealer in the back. It is no mystery why dealers from a number of companies are
abandoning their distributors.
Enagic is the only company that provides its dealers with their own websites and
doesnt compete its dealers. I admire Enagic for their system which provides stro
ng support for their dealers..too bad about the $4,000 price tag
===
I have gone through the same disillusion phase myself. I have grown weary of the
nonsense and just decided to let it go. The machines themselves are great, but th
e industry is badly in need of an association to promote and police itself. I do
nt think that anyone in the industry intends to screw anyone. I think it is more ab
out poor management and under financed operations, which is what you usually hap
pens in a new industry. Eventually the fast money is replaced by solid companies o
r the fad dies off. The jury is still out in this case, but I see a lot more blood
letting before I see any growth. Mercola killed the industry and the industry d
idnt fight back.
Now that the new and much more affordable technology is available, I dont ever se
e the electric water ionizer business thriving. In my opinion, the only decent o
rganization in the industry is Enagic, but their price point is ridiculous. Ther
e is no point in arguing with the Enagic reps about price, because all their reas
ons are just excuses to back up the outrageous price. The actual cost of manufact
uring is a fraction of the retail price and the technology is the same for all t
he different brands. Plate thickness or size, or wattage, or all the other my Dad
is bigger than your Dad reasons are all virtually irrelevant when compared to th
e impact of the source water. I really dont care if someone pays $400 or $4,000 f
or a water ionizer as long as they start drinking the water. Those that think th
ey are getting something better can pay the $4,000 price tag.
I have said about all I can say about water ionizers. Those that care about what
I write already know what I think and there is really no point in going over th
e same thing over and over again. Im going to focus my future efforts on connecti
ng the dots between water and health issues such as obesity, arthritis, diabetes
, weitht loss, skin elasticity etc.
===
Hybrid Water Ionizer
The Downside to the Hybrid
Hyensung E&E has worked out the bugs that I found when I first tested the machine.
The one bug that they never did iron out was the filter. They sent me a number of
different test filters and none of them worked well. While the machine has a ve
ry reasonable flow rate of 1.2 liters/quarts per minute, the water is not under
pressure. That means that you cant get the efficiency of a carbon filter that you
would find in a normal water ionizer.
If you decide to get one of these machines, I recommend that you throw away the
filter. If you use the filter, the water will taste terrible. The water tastes t
errible if you use the filter because the filter is exposed to air.
Both of my sons used their Hybrids without a filter and didnt have any complaints

. For those that want to remove the taste and odor often found in municipally su
pplied tap water, you can use use pre-filtered water. Filtration can be obtained
by using jugs of bottled water (dont use Reverse Osmosis water or the results wi
ll be very mediocre), or setting up a pre-filter system under your kitchen sink.
The Price
I have seen this machine on the market for several months, despite the fact that
they didnt have all the bugs ironed out. That drives me crazy because it creates
an incredible amount of badwill for the company and for the industry itself.
I also see that a number of vendors are selling the machine for $899, which is a
great price for an electric water ionizer. I assume that dealers must advertise
the machines at $899 as everyone is advertising the same price, which is common
in the water ionizer industry. However, if you contact me, I can tell you how y
ou can purchase this machine for $549 if you are interested. If you read my blog
, you will understand that you no longer have to pay retail prices for electric
water ionizers, and this is a perfect example. Now we are talking affordable!
===
My goal remains to get everyone drinking the water. We need to keep the passiona
te dealers involved, but they need to be properly educated about how and why the
water actually works. The industry has to stop being about quick money if it is e
ver going to reach its potential.
===
I can assure you that you can purchase the Hybrid for $495, as I have helped a n
umber of people buy the unit at that price. The various dealers that I refer who
offer discount pricing on different products are liquidating stock for differen
t reasons, and they do so at their dealer costs to simply get their investment b
ack. They dont advertise because they dont want to harm the market, but believe me
, you can buy a brand new Hybrid with the warranty for $495.
===
Kirk Phinney
I love the fact that the some of the most experienced and emerging leaders in th
e industry like yourself, Ian Hamilton, Bob MacCaulay, Ross Bridgeford, Jody Spe
ncer, and Gabe Hunninghake feel comfortable enough with this site to join in.
The water ionizer industry has been dominated by the disgraceful behavior of the
owners of the various companies in the past. I hope this blog plays a role in e
nding the nonsense and creating a spirit of cooperation among the leaders. If th
e owners stop screwing around with each other and focus on educating the public,
there will more business than anyone in the industry could possibly hope for.
People need to drink ionized water so that they can obtain the benefits of the h
ydrogen created in the process. It doesnt matter to me which brand people buy, or
whether they buy electric water ionizers or antioxidant filterspeople just need t
o drink the water.
===
I have been asking myself the same question for the past few weeks since my doct
or told me I have prostate cancer. You can imagine my relief when my urologist,
who is a specialist said he believes I dont have cancer at all. The decision is s
till up in the air for me. I find it hard to believe I have cancer when I have b
een drinking the water for years. However, I still eat a diet that is quite acid
ic.
By the time someone is diagnosed with cancer, they have probably had it for at l
east two years and perhaps a lot longer. In fact, everyone has some degree of ca
ncer in their bodies.
===
The bubbles are hydrogen gas (aka molecular hydrogen). They are the source of th
erapeutic benefits for at least 80 human diseases.

===
If you want the useful benefits of acidic water, there are a number of effective
acidic water maker products available that cost about $200.
===
You and Kirk over at Revolutionizer must be loving the support I continue to thr
ow towards the antioxidant filters. You guys deserve the attention because your
machines really do work.
===
I have wrestled with this topic for a long time. For lack of a better explanatio
n, I refer to Dr. Hayashi who has not only hypothesized about the existence of f
ree hydrogen in naturally ionized watetr, but also says he can measure it.
The alkalinity defitely comes from the presence of alkali metals interacting wit
h the hydroxyl portion of a water molecule. The result of the interaction is the
creation of a free hydrogen atom.
Im definitely a fan of natural water ionizers. My research and the fact that I ha
ve been drinking the water from a natural water ionizer for about 18 months give
me the confidence to support the technology. As far as the chemistry goes, once
again, I have to rely upon what I read. Imo, Dr. Hayashi is the leading researc
hing in the world on water ionization, so I believe his literature.
Ultimately, I dont really care how it works anymore than I care about how my comp
uter or my car works.as long as it works.
What I have learned is that the non-electrics work as well or better than the el
ectric machines at a fraction of the price.
===
My best guess is that the Enagic SD501 costs about $500 and I assume the cost wo
uld be a bit higher with inflation. I believe Bob McCauley used to sell them for
about $900 in the States before Enagic took over the brand. I havent looked at E
nagic stuff for a long time but I believe Enagic adds in about $1,000 to cover t
heir marketing costs and profitsand then they add in another $2,300 for the MLM s
ystem.and presto$4,000.
I dont think Enagic has never been particularly interested in the science as they
have always been all about the money.
===
You make good points about the various levels of cost by the time a consumer buy
s at retail pricing. The 20% profit for Enagic may be accurate after they build
in all of their costs, but I believe Enagic gets about $1,100 plus while the man
ufacturing costs are more like $600. It has been a long time since I looked into
the costing of products but I know that the manufacturing cost a few years ago
was about $500.
The real win for Enagic is their filter sales. They make about $200 profit per y
ear on their filter sales which they dont share with their dealers unless they
have changed their policy. If Enagic in the USA has sold 100,000 machines, that
means they have a cool $20 million of profit coming in each year which is locked
in because anyone that pays $4,000 for a machine will continue to use the filte
rs.
===
ORP has always been the mystery measurement in the water ionizer industry that peo
ple have difficulty understanding or explaining. From a scientific standpoint, O
RP doesnt really exist as a real measurement. The real measure is conductivity wh
ich can be recalculate/reconfigured to ORP. Conductivity is easy to measure, und
erstand, and explain.
My wife loves her unit that produces hypochlorous acid. We picked it up about 5
years ago when we went to visit a number of water ionizer manufacturing faciliti

es. The unit makes one liter of incredibly strong and effective natural bleach in
3 minutes. If I had been selling products from my blog over the years, I bet I c
ould have sold hundreds of acid water makers because readers know that the natural
water ionizers that I prefer dont make acid water.
===
The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest his patients i
n the care of the human body, in diet, and in the cause and prevention of diseas
e.
.Thomas Edison
===
Ionization can be created with cations (energy donaters such as the alkali metal
s like magnesium, calcium, sodium, of phosphorous) or with anions (energy consum
ers such as sulphates, salts, and chlorides or fluorides). In the presence of th
e cations, the pH of the water becomes alkaline. Therefore, ionized and alkaline
water become aligned when natural ionization occurs using a base metal such as
magnesium. I dont know if this helps.
Most people that hear about water ionizers want to know whether the electric or
non-electric machines are best. The answer is neither as they both work. The ele
ctric machines create very temporary and powerful pH and ORP numbers. Ultimately
the pH and ORP are determined by the alkali metals in the water. Im a fan of the
natural ionizers because they add alkaki metals whereas the electric machines d
ont or they only add them for a short time. If the sellers of electric machines a
dded more alkali metals in their filters (EOS does the best job), they would per
form much better over the long term. Electric water ionizer companies rely on cu
stomers not checking the pH and ORP over the life of their filters. But then, th
ey would be admitting that natural ionizers work (which they do) and one would h
ave to question why you would need an electric water ionizer in the first place.
That is a question that I mused over for a long time. I eventually came to the
conclusion that you dont need an electric water ionizer at all.
So, to answer your question, if you remineralize water after submitting it to re
verse osmosis, you dont need an electric water ionizer because the remineralizati
on process using a good alkali base metal filter will ionize and alkalize your w
ater. There is no need to waste money on an electric water ionizer.
===
If you want the best and can afford $795, I would recommend the Vitev Maxx (see
http://http://www.vitev.com/alkaline-water-ionizers/MAXX/
I like the Maxx because the RO part takes the bad stuff (contaminants) out of th
e water and its Remin filter puts the good stuff (healthy minerals) back into the
water. The Maxx includes a permeate pump which reduces waste water by up to 80%
and fills the holding tank up to 4 times faster than conventional RO systems wh
ich are great features. I did the math on building my own system with the same f
eatures as a Maxx for my own kitchen and the tally ended up being about $850. I
have been using the Maxx for about a year and my entire family likes it.
If you cant afford a Maxx, you can buy a Zero Water Pitcher for about $38 from Wa
lmart which will take all the contaminants out of the water for about 6 weeks. T
he filters for the Zero Water pitcher end up costing about $135 per year which i
s a bit pricey. You can also buy a VYVwater pitcher for $60 (see http://www.vyvw
ater.com) which will put the minerals back into the water. The filters for the V
YVwater pitcher cost about $80 per year. If you fill the Zero Water pitcher with
tap water and then pour the water from that pitcher into the VYVwater pitcher,
you will end up with clean and healthy water for the lowest price. The Maxx is w
ayyyy more convenient, but not everyone can afford $795.
===
Whole house filters are great for removing contaminants from the source water. T
he most important issues are:

1) what do you need to remove from the water?


2) how do you get the best value?
It is important to remove chlorine from the water for showers because breathing
in chlorine during a shower should be avoided. If removing chlorine from showers
is your only requirement, all you need to do is purchase an inexpensive carbon
based shower filter. If you want to remove chlorine from all of your household w
ater, you can purchase a two stage Big Blue system that utilizes a sediment filt
er and a carbon filter.
I dont recommend expensive whole house systems as they are not really necessary.
Most people get SOLD on purchasing expensive systems because of the problems with
contaminated drinking water. The best way to handle drinking water is to dedicat
e one tap in a home to drining water, which is usually the kitchen sink. The ide
al drinking water is clean and healthy. A reverse osmosis system handles the cle
an part. A remineralization filter will handle the healthy part. The world is ju
st waking up to the fact that good drinking water requires minerals which make t
he water alkaline. My favourite system is the MAXX by Vitev (www.vitev.com) as i
t does a lot of important things well and it is reasonably affordable at $795 (w
hich as of July includes and extra set of replacement filters which normally sel
l for $199). If your drinking water isnt hard and is not filled with contaminants
such as fluoride and other nasty stuff, you can buy a very inexpensive system s
uch as the VYVwater pitcher for $59 which has very affordable annual replacement
filter costs of about $60.
The greatest need for water systems is when people have hard water which causes
scaling in appliances and pipes. In that case, a water softener installed at the
point of entry into the home for the source water will do the trick. You will n
eed a reverse osmosis system (preferably with a remineralizing filter) under the
kitchen sink for drinking water.
===
you brush past chloramines too quickly. I suggest most folks really need a 3 pha
se system, Carbon for chloramine, RO for fluoride, and then the Ionizer to make
it healthy.
However, that is not an excuse for not fighting like h* to get the fluoride and
chloramine out of your water in the first place! You are still absorbing these p
oisons through your skin, as are the vegetables in your garden that you bring to
the table. If you manage to get the F out, you might only need a high quality c
arbon filter.
===
Take a look at the Vitev Maxx (www.vitev.com) as it does exactly what you sugges
ted as a 3 phase system. I think it is the best system on the market.
===
Natural water ionizers use minerals while electric water ionizers do not use min
erals. Natural water ionizers use both organic and inorganic elements. It is not
true that the body wont absorb inorganic elements. While plants use photosynthes
is to absorb inorganic elements, the human chelates the inorganics in the stomac
h to make them absorbable. The chelation process is not very efficient, but it d
oes work. There are many scientific sources to verify this information including
the World Health Organization, which recommends specific levels of Ca and Mg fo
r ideal drinking water.
===
I think filtration is important to remove contaminants from the water. That mean
s that municipalities have to use chlorine or chloramines. Most of us have to li
ve with that. While I hate fluoridation of water, a lot of us have to live with
it. I think the important issue is to make the best of the cards we are dealt.
If you dont have chlorine in your waterget a carbon filter

If
If
If
ur

you have chloramines in your waterget a catalytic carbon filter


you have fluoride in your waterget a RO system
you get a RO systemget a Remineralization filter to put Mg and Ca back into yo
water

I believe in drinking water that is alkaline in order to buffer the acidic diets
most of us consume
I believe in getting minerals into our bodies (especially Mg as 97% of us are de
ficient in this incredibly important element) via diet or water. My personal fav
orite for water is natural water ionizers as their ionization process is typical
ly fueled by running water through Magnesium
===
If the concentration of fluoride in your water is only 0.13 ppm, then I agree wi
th your water companythey are not adding fluoride to the water supply.
Fluoride occurs naturally and my understanding is that it is not harmful like ma
nufactured fluoride.
The EPA set a recommended max of 1.2 ppm in the past and I believe they adjusted
the recommended amount down to 0.7ppm in 2012.
I wouldnt be concerned with a level of 0.13 ppm of naturally occurring fluoride.
===
The WHO recommends about 80-130 ppm of TDS primarily made up of alkali metals (C
alcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium).
I think the actual amount of TDS is much less important than the content of the
TDS.
I dont want fluoride, mercury, lead, nitrates, chromium 6, and especially bacteri
a.
I do want the alkali metals and clay in parts per million wont hurt anyone.
===
The Himalayan salt is good. Coral Calcium adds 72 trace metals and is less expen
sive. The good Remin filters are a lot better than either the Himalayan salt or
the Coral Calcium.
===
Yes, you can add minerals to the water such as rock salt, NaCO3 and CaCO3. What
concerns me about adding minerals is:
1) what minerals do you add?
2) how much do you add?
3) what proportions of different minerals do you add?
4) does the concoction that you add actually produce molecular hydrogen when the
y react with water?
The leading edge companies in this field spend huge amounts of time and money te
sting various components and blends to get the best results. In the days of $4,0
00 electric water ionizers, the financial implications were reason enough to exp
eriment on your own. Now that you can buy inexpensive delivery systems (see http
://www.vyvwater.com for example) and affordable replacement filters, it doesnt ma
ke sense to me to dabble on your own. A good analogy would be automobiles. While
a car can cost $10,000 and up, it cost more than a billion dollars to produce t
he first one.
===
Here are some Q&As that I hope will help ease your mind and help you decide what
to do:

1) Are Kangen machines the most well made electric water ionizers on the market..
yes they are
2) Do Kangen machines work in terms of performing the functions that the company
claims.yes they do
3) Will your health improve when you drink Kangen water.yes it will
4) Are Kangen machines more effective than most of the competitive products.no th
ey are not
5) Would I buy a Kangen machineI bought a nearly new SD501 for testing for$1,300 a
few ago..it worked as well as the other machines I tested.I later sold the machine
as I didnt see the point in owning it beyond the testing period.
6) Are there better products available on the market..I would prefer to have a Vi
tev Ultra because it does the same thing as the Kangen machines and a whole lot
more for $995.the whole lot more includes cleaning virtually all contaminants out o
f the water with its RO component and it remineralizes the water with Calcium an
d Magnesium at levels recommended as ideal by the World Health Organization
7) Should you return your Kangen machineit depends.if you like it, keep it.if you f
eel victimized like many others, you can find out if you can return it and how muc
h it will cost you to do so and then buy another machine that is just as effecti
ve and more affordable.if you are on a payment plan, I expect it will help your c
ause
8) Should you continue to sell to others.telling people about the water is a good
thing.getting friends and family to purchase a machine that is massively overpric
ed is a personal decision that only you can answer
===
While the naysayers correctly point out that pure water cant be ionized but they
dont tell you that water with alkali metals (magnesium, calcium, potassium, and s
odium) can be ionized.
===
While the Remin filter that you attack me over is a great filter, the one that Im
working on has more media and a better media mix.

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