Belfra

Update

03/11/2012

Theme
The Tobrouk and its evolution
Part 4
From the 58a to the 58f
Who are we?
Around a core of people visiting the Atlantic Wall for over 20 years, some informal team
has been formed.
Were all amateurs, in the sense that we have an attraction for the research on the Wall.
While seriously devoted, none of us are professional, ie we do not draw any income (it
would rather the opposite).

Why as Pdf file ?

This is the only way we can make our research reactive, and make others to join us, or
help us to add whats missed and making an update starting from the new findings in
the field and in the archives.
All photographs used in this article are property of Belfra, otherwise their origin is
indicated, documents from the archives, likewise.

The only want to improve. Therefore we appeal to other fans! Join us on the forum.
http://lemurdelatlantique.lebonforumcom

Le Mur de lAtlantique
http://lemurdelatlantique.lebonforumcom

The Tobrouks or Ringstnde are always known to be used for observation or as MG and/or mortar post.
This seems very logical and is described in the first 3 parts of this series of our articles.
We know the importance of the back room in its use, and for us, for the purpose of identification.
Depending on the weapon used we know the required storage capacity for ammunitions, because we all know that
the weapons used, a MG as well as a Mortar, require a large amount of ammunition.
If we now take a look at Tobrouks without that storage space, it seems logical to conclude that this variant of
construction is only suitable for observation purposes.
The first time we noticed such thing was when reading a document that referred to the 58 c.

Why did they change the name of the 58c in "Ringstand in Flgel Mauer"?
(Ringstand integrated into a flanking wall)?

The design gives this:

And the plan receives the title :

It is very clear that it is used as an observatory (Beobachter), which is also described in many German plans.

It really can only serve as an observatory because it simply does not have room to store ammunition or house a
second soldier.

In later constructions, such as the 668, it suddenly appears in another form.

The map below is dated 24th of May 1942 (first proposed plan), and green light for its construction was given during
the 1st quarter of 1943.

We can see that it is still described as a Beobachter, but it now has a small storage.

The Zeichnung Nummer (drawing number) is high-ranked (I Nr. 578)

We often find this version of Beobachter on the 668, but also other types of the 600 series
As there are the 680, 612, etc. ...

 Archive NA
Mostly frequently it s not integrated into the bunker but built against it.
Inside the Tobrouk of a 677 :

From the Axis forum we received the following document :

We see that it was designated as 58c and 58a.

Below a Tobrouk that was discovered

It has not been measured, but after comparing pictures, we deduced the measures
written in red. We want to thank Strill and all those who have contributed on Axis forum.

There evidence is very poor, but we know that it is that type of Ringstand with the smallest storage. So it is possible
that this is the type indicated as 58a.

Here under , a picture showing us the entry of another Tobrouk in Norway :

It is clearly visible that this one does not have a large storage capacity.
If we assume that the former exemplar is a 58a, than the 58d type should have following items :
1.

A bigger storage than the 58a, but back room thats smaller than 155 cm x 110 cm
(dimensions after 22nd of May 1943, the first date of appointment 58c).

2.

A 190 cm high storage, preferably with low door.

We did find an exemplar in the Quimper area ( 7 KVA C1)

90

58

13

58

58
52

54

80

56

55

41

42

4
70

80

80

30
110

146

4
28

140

One might say a VF8, but with a low door, this is in contradiction with the articles already written on Pdf No. 1 and 2.
It has some characteristics of theVF8 and others of the 58c: we believe that it is the 58b.
The location of this rare Tobrouk indicates that he might has been used as observation post.

Excavations were undertaken around this Tobrouk : the position was under construction, or abandoned.

To continue, we have the 58f, here is a location on a document:

We hope well soon have access, but if the above is true, we should find a Tobrouk
For MG / mortar with a storage capacity even bigger than in the 58c.
In the document below, we have a Vf25 (planned for tank turret French) without turret
tank but with a wooden bed (easy to install or remove).

No type designation on the sheet but again a high-ranking Zeichnung nr (drawing number)
Ia 561, close to that of our 58a (I 578).

Weve never met this type during our field trips , so we cant prove it, but it remains the logical continuation of our
reasoning.
We went from pure observation with a small storage capacity (58a) to Mg / mortar / observatory with a large storage
capacity (58f).
We dont know if we should call them "Tobrouks a, b, f," because we dont have documents
designating them as well, it is only our way of thinking.
The future will decide whether it was a good track or just fantasy ...
PS : If there isnt anything on the 58th, its that we havent found anything, neither on the ground nor in
documents.

Unless stated:
All designs are made from measurements taken on the ground by the group.
All documents are the Bundesarchiv Freiburg

Belfra