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In the Matter Of:

DISTRESSED UNIT APPEAL BOARD

TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
October 22, 2015

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

2 BEFORE THE STATE OF INDIANA


3 DISTRESSED UNIT APPEAL BOARD
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5
6 TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
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8
Hearing heard on the 22nd day of October,
9 2015, in the offices of the State Library, 140
N. Senate Avenue, Indianapolis, Indiana.
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17 A STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
18 By: Tamara J. Brown
Notary Public
19 Stenographic Reporter
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317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 A P P E A R A N C E S
2 BOARD MEMBERS:
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4

5

Micah G. Vincent, Chairman


Ryan Mishler
Tammy White
Lisa Acobert
Courtney Schaafsma

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GENERAL COUNSEL:
7
Michael Duffy
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GARY COMMUNITY SCHOOL CORPORATION:

Jack Martin
Mark Schrupp
Jerry Greenblatt
William Aldridge
Marvin Ward

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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 (Time Noted 12:33 p.m.)


2 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: I hereby call this
3 meeting of the Distressed Unit Appeals Board to
4 order.
5 I'll go ahead and introduce myself and have
6 the board and the staff introduce themselves as
7 well. My name is Micah Vincent. I am the
8 director of the Office of Management and Budget.
9 And I serve as the chairman of the board.
10 Let's go this way first.
11 MS. ACOBERT: Thank you, Micah. My name is
12 Lisa Acobert. I'm the executive director of
13 finance and business operations for the Indiana
14 Department of Education.
15 MS. WHITE: My name is Tammy White. I am
16 one of the deputy state examiners for the State
17 Board of Accounts.
18 SEN. MISHLER: Ryan Mishler. I serve in
19 the senate, and represent Elkhart, Kosciusko,
20 Marshall and St. Joe Counties.
21 MS. SCHAAFSMA: Courtney Schaafsma,
22 Commissioner with the Indiana Department of
23 Local Government Finance.
24 MR. DUFFY: I'm Mike Duffy, general counsel
25 for the Department of Local Government Finance.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: The first thing I want


2 to make note of is that this meeting is in
3 compliance with the Open Door Law. And the
4 agenda was posted outside the door. So we are
5 good there.
6 And the next order of business was the
7 approval of minutes for the July 13, 2015, DUAB
8 hearing.
9 Do we have those minutes?
10 MR. DUFFY: Yes.
11 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Do we have a motion?
12 MS. ACOBERT: I'll make a motion to approve
13 the minutes.
14 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Second?
15 MS. SCHAAFSMA: Second.
16 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: All in favor?
17 (Chorus of ayes.)
18 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay. The minutes
19 should show that we approved the minutes for
20 July 13th, 2015 -- if that's the right way to
21 say it -- Roberts Rules of Order.
22 The next portion of our meeting today is
23 going to be a presentation by Jack Martin, who
24 is the financial specialist for the Gary
25 Community School Corporation.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
5

1 So Jack, if you want to go through that


2 presentation. Maybe, Jack, if you could start
3 off with a little of your background, some of
4 your other work as well, I think that would be
5 helpful, and then we'll move from that
6 discussion to a discussion with the board.
7 I believe that today Gary Schools is
8 requesting the DUAB to approve or move forward
9 in the process for a 15 million-dollar loan.
10 So Jack, if you want to jump in and kick us
11 off, and if you're comfortable with it, we'll
12 ask questions as we move along.
13 MR. MARTIN: I think that's probably best,
14 rather than to save the questions, frankly.
15 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay.
16 MR. MARTIN: Let me first introduce the
17 team that is with me, Mark Schrupp, Jerry
18 Greenblatt, and Bill Aldridge.
19 A little bit about my background, I am a
20 certified public accountant, currently chairman
21 of Martin, Arrington, Desai & Meyers, CPA firm
22 headquartered in Bingham Farms, Michigan.
23 Related to restructuring work, my most
24 recent experience with appointments by Governor
25 Rick Snyder as the emergency manager of Highland
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 Park Schools, chief financial officer appointed


2 by the governor and Mayor Dave Bingham, chief
3 financial officer of the City of Detroit, so
4 we've worked through a lot of the bankruptcy
5 issues; and most recently, emergency manager of
6 Detroit Public Schools.
7 And the two members of my team, Mark
8 Schrupp -- well, all the members of this team
9 have DPS experience.
10 I am a graduate of Detroit Public Schools,
11 a BS and MBA from Wayne State, and an unfinished
12 doctorate from University of Minnesota -13 transferred campus, so I dropped out of the
14 program years ago.
15 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Jack, you're also the
16 CFO for the U.S. Department of Education; is
17 that right?
18 MR. MARTIN: Oh, yes. Thanks, Micah.

19 was secretary -- well, under the first George


20 H.W., I was administrative law judge for the
21 Provider Reimbursement Review Board -- that's a
22 quasi judicial board at the U.S. Department of
23 Health and Human Services, a three-year term
24 appointment.
25 I went back in 2001, and was nominated
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 assistant secretary, chief financial officer of


2 the U.S. Department of Education, and since we
3 sort of got the U.S. Department of Education
4 turned around, the president gave me in
5 addition, what they called additional duties,
6 assigned as executive director of the Selective
7 Service System. So when the war started, I was
8 in charge of Selective Service, and had to go
9 out and talk frequently about the fact, when the
10 president was running for reelection, he was not
11 going to draft. That was all over the place,
12 that if he was reelected he was going to draft
13 for the Iraq war.
14 It was an interesting assignment. I did
15 that for about nine months. Then I became the
16 sole nomination, and the guy that had been
17 nominated, so I was in the job almost a year,
18 and spent a lot of time figuring out
19 briefings -- and it was interesting.
20 Interestingly enough, that was when they
21 first called me from presidential personnel
22 about what I wanted to do in this new Bush
23 Administration. I said defense or health and
24 human services, but they said that the
25 Department of Education had such serious
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 problems, would I mind doing that, and that's


2 how I ended up here.
3 Okay. So let me thank you all for allowing
4 me to make this presentation today. And I would
5 first, I think, direct you to page 3, just to
6 comment about 213. Right now, I think in terms
7 of my relationship with the Board and
8 superintendent and the general community in
9 Gary, PL 213 implementation is on time. We're
10 all working together.
11 The only thing we've gotten any pushback on
12 so far is discussion of one school closure, and
13 that was from, I think, one board member, maybe
14 two. So things are going well, and we expect
15 they will continue. But I think we're still in
16 the honeymoon period, so anything could happen.
17 So going to page 4, just some background on
18 Gary, which I'm sure many of you are already
19 familiar, founded in 1906. Population has seen
20 significant decreases, 178,000 people in 1960,
21 down to 77,000 in 2014, and I think still
22 declining.
23 A large land mass, which makes delivering
24 certain services inefficient, and really I think
25 it hurts the bus routes, because you have people
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

1 scattered all over the place, which increases


2 your student transportation costs.
3 Per capita income is significantly lower
4 than the rest of the state, $15,900, versus
5 24,600, and median home value of 65,400 versus
6 123,000 for the rest of the state of Indiana.
7 Population history, the high point was the
8 1960 census, 178,000 folks, down right now to an
9 estimated 78,000 residents of the city of Gary.
10 And I'm on page 6. The screen is behind
11 you. I'm on 6.
12 The school corporation was incorporated in
13 1909, and did some pioneering work at that time,
14 the platoon system of work study, where you go
15 take academic classes in the morning and go to a
16 trade school type training in the afternoon, and
17 reverse, depending on where the students are
18 located.
19 The number of schools in 1970 was 43, right
20 now it's down to 15. And I would guess that the
21 percent occupancy of those schools probably
22 averages 30 percent, or something like that.
23 MR. SCHRUPP: 48 percent.
24 MR. MARTIN: And this is, I think, true in
25 other stressed districts. We in Detroit had the
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

10

10

1 same kind of history, lots of buildings, most of


2 them pretty much empty.
3 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: You said it was 48
4 percent occupancy?
5 MR. SCHRUPP: I'll give you the exact
6 number, but yeah.
7 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: What is typical, I mean,
8 in a school corporation? Would you expect them
9 to be -- you don't expect them to be a hundred
10 percent, I would assume -- but what is a typical
11 school occupancy?
12 MR. SCHRUPP: You want to be in the 70s and
13 higher, to be efficient.
14 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay.
15 MR. SCHRUPP: And the newer buildings are
16 close to that number. We have three new
17 buildings that are close to 75 percent. We've
18 got some older ones that are in the 20, 30
19 percent.
20 MR. MARTIN: I think the high schools are
21 probably 30 percent.
22 MR. SCHRUPP: Yeah, the high schools are
23 really low.
24 MR. MARTIN: 2000, probably 800 kids.
25 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And are those schools
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 still operating because of geographic concerns,


2 or because of just local operational concern,
3 you know, local neighborhood concerns of having
4 kids?
5 MR. SCHRUPP: We closed a lot of schools in
6 the last ten years, and when they closed they
7 are at a certain enrollment level, and the next
8 two years, it keeps dropping. So when they
9 closed a lot of schools, their percentages were
10 higher. They just closed four more last year.
11 And there's a fair amount of exhaustion from all
12 the school closures. 38 in 2000 to 15, closed
13 over 60 percent of their schools in about 15
14 years.
15 But it's continuing to drop, so each year
16 the occupancy rate goes down.
17 MR. MARTIN: And the phenomenon I talked
18 about a whole lot, when we close the school,
19 those kids don't stay, all those kids don't stay
20 in your system, they go someplace else. So
21 closing a school to save money, you're going to
22 lose population, and your basic rent is going to
23 go down. Because they will go to charters or go
24 someplace else. If the charter is closer
25 they'll go there rather than be bussed across
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
12

1 town someplace. That's what the parents will


2 elect.
3 Slide 7, student population history, 2010
4 it was 11,000, almost 12,000; 2011 down to 9800;
5 2012, 9100, 9200; 2013, 8900; 2014, almost 8600;
6 and 2015, 7107. And right now we're looking at
7 a total student population of 6,996. But that
8 includes Roosevelt School, which we're
9 estimating about 630 kids, and preschool kids,
10 which is about 400.
11 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And is this -- do you
12 have a sense of the total number of possible
13 students? And I guess the question I'm kind
14 getting at is, the school I grew up in Randolph
15 County, it's very small, it has a thousand kids,
16 and that's all the kids that are there. So
17 there's no charters, there's no vouchers in that
18 area.
19 Do you have a sense of the total number of
20 kids that could potentially be in the Gary
21 School Corporation?
22 MR. MARTIN: I think it's about double.
23 MR. SCHRUPP: We've seen some demographic
24 data that suggests that it's about half and
25 half, charter and Gary Schools. And some are
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 going across borders, Hammond and some others,


2 so about 50 percent.
3 MR. MARTIN: And interestingly, that's
4 about the same in Detroit, about 50 percent of
5 the kids are in Detroit Public Schools, and the
6 other 50 percent are a lot of school choice
7 charters.
8 MS. SCHAAFSMA: Is there, on this, what's
9 the reasoning for the estimate for the
10 expectation for 2016, in terms of what you're
11 seeing?
12 MR. MARTIN: The numbers, it's close, but
13 it goes up and down.
14 MR. SCHRUPP: I think it's not final yet.
15 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Lisa, is that right?
16 MS. ACOBERT: Yes, we're still finalizing
17 it.
18 MR. MARTIN: Financial troubles, slide 8.
19 Dramatic four-year decline, cash and investments
20 down 8.4 million dollars, in '11, 16.6 in '12,
21 2.1 in '13, and that drop was due to a
22 significant borrowing, which is shown on the
23 following page, page 9, and 2014, 2.6 million.
24 So it's been a decline driven a lot by losses in
25 student enrollment.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 And the causes, I think probably a major


2 cause is the historic overstaffing. You know, I
3 think right now, I think we've got 200 more
4 folks than we need. And I think that has been
5 the case over several years. My understanding
6 is that principals are pretty much given leave
7 to hire -- to do their own hiring -- and I think
8 it's true here, as it was true in Detroit and
9 other districts, that if they are given that
10 option, they will have people there that
11 shouldn't be there.
12 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So there's no
13 centralized hiring.
14 MR. MARTIN: Right. The hiring is
15 centralized, but there's no central control.
16 We're trying to implement those controls.
17 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay. Can I ask you a
18 question on the first part of that, on the first
19 part of that slide. These numbers, it says 18.4
20 million in 2011 and 16.6 million in 2012, that
21 is the amount in reduction in the cash and
22 investment in that year. Is that correct?
23 MR. MARTIN: Yes.
24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So it's not the overall
25 balance, was negative 18.4. The point I'm
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
15

1 trying to make is it did not improve -2 MR. SCHRUPP: It's on the next slide. That
3 slide will show you the balance.
4 MR. MARTIN: Right. If you look on slide
5 9, cash and investment balances, you can see how
6 they have declined from 2010, 37.2, down to 1.7
7 in 2014.
8 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay.
9 MR. MARTIN: Did you want to say any more
10 on the causes?
11 MR. SCHRUPP: You mentioned the declining
12 enrollment, the declining population, people in
13 the city are leaving and taking their kids with
14 them. The overstaffing, making the adjustments
15 fast enough to match the enrollment is hard to
16 do.
17 Bill had a chart on the per-pupil rent
18 figure going down. This table shows what it was
19 in 2010, and where it declined to currently. So
20 we're losing kids, but the amount per child is
21 going down.
22 MR. MARTIN: And that decline was about 21
23 percent, I believe.
24 MR. SCHRUPP: Over five years. And then
25 that's the per pupil.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 And we mentioned the inability to cut fast


2 enough. You lose 10 percent, or you lose your
3 enrollment, but you're predicting the number of
4 teachers you need in May and June, and you're
5 kind of locked in for a year, you know.
6 There's some legacy costs, things,
7 decisions made in prior years, you're still
8 carrying those costs. There's some litigation
9 that's still hanging around, they are still
10 paying for those things.
11 And then last, the inefficiencies
12 associated with the decline. When you lose 10
13 percent of your kids, they don't come all out of
14 one building, so you can't just close that one.
15 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: You can't just close one
16 corner?
17 MR. SCHRUPP: You close 10 percent. You
18 still have a principal, you still have some of
19 your fixed costs, but your revenue is down and
20 you can't spread that out. And central office
21 cost, it shard to take 10 percent out of
22 everybody when you lose that.
23 So those are the kinds of things that make
24 it challenging as you decline, you can't cut
25 fast enough.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 MR. MARTIN: You can't cut fast enough.


2 Bill?
3 MR. ALDRIDGE: Yeah. There have been a
4 number of studies nationwide, in terms of school
5 districts, that are faced with continuing
6 decline in the number of students. And one of
7 the most notable ones was done by the senate
8 fiscal agency in Michigan. It was, again,
9 spread throughout the country, because obviously
10 a number of states, cities, and other units are
11 facing the same kind of problem.
12 But the bottom line to the study was, you
13 simply can't cut fast enough. By the time you
14 find out where you're at in terms of number of
15 students, you have an immediate revenue hit. In
16 other words, the impact on revenue happens
17 instantaneous. It takes time to wean and to
18 ream certain costs out of a school district, for
19 operational reasons.
20 So, again, the issue is when you have
21 continuous decline in school districts, chances
22 are they really won't be able to cut at the same
23 rate that they shared revenue.
24 MR. MARTIN: Page 9 is all funds. And we
25 go to selected funds, which would be general
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
18

1 fund, debt service, exempt debt, capital


2 projects, and transportation. The decline in
3 cash investment balance is even more, 8.6
4 million in 2010, down to minus 12.7 million in
5 2014.
6 So that's, again, as we said, the decline
7 in student population -- and then I think most
8 importantly, not managing expenses. Expenses,
9 particularly labor, payroll, fringe benefits,
10 the numbers are huge, as we'll see soon. And I
11 think they have made some staff cuts, but the
12 staff cuts have not met the revenue losses.
13 Bill, you want to say a few words about the
14 debt summary real quick?
15 MR. ALDRIDGE: Sure. In reviewing the
16 corporation, Gary Corporation's records, as well
17 as utilizing the fantastic system that the State
18 has, Gateway, we were able to -- and very -19 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Well done.
20 MR. ALDRIDGE: We were able to drill
21 down -- and that's fantastic.
22 MS. SCHAAFSMA: Only mildly appropriate.
23 MR. ALDRIDGE: We drilled down to get some
24 idea as to the existing debt structure. And
25 these balances are as of June 15, 2015. And we
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 selected that date primarily because there were


2 various -- I'll say documentation -- that
3 allowed us to confirm within a certain range of
4 accuracy what the outstanding debt was.
5 The next slides essentially, again, is the
6 drill down. It shows the interest rate, the
7 name of the particular debt structure. And what
8 we really revealed this for, the purpose of
9 reviewing this was really the debt is about 75
10 million dollars. And again, looking at that
11 number doesn't tell us much. But looking at
12 what the debt service is, the kind of interest
13 that is being paid on that debt, gives us some
14 idea as to whether, again, whether there are
15 options in terms of dealing with the 75 million.
16 And we're still looking at that.
17 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Bill, you brought us to
18 a point -- and I'll ask about this later -- but
19 I'm just going to interrupt and reference it
20 now -- is the quality and accuracy of financial
21 records.
22 MR. ALDRIDGE: Yes.
23 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: We'll talk about that
24 later.
25 MR. MARTIN: Okay. I guess I will now
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October 22, 2015

20

20

1 direct you to slide 15. And we don't have that,


2 for folks behind you, we don't have that, but
3 it's in the packet. It's on page 15.
4 And just go to the extreme left total
5 column. And I think this pretty well summarizes
6 what's happening in the City of Gary. And I
7 think some of you have seen this before.
8 But the total base rent is 53 million
9 dollars. We -- there are a number of offsets.
10 The first one, common school debt service, TRF
11 and PERF, since we don't make those payments on
12 time, and Roosevelt High School, those offsets
13 total 6.8 million dollars.
14 There is a debt service bank intercept,
15 633,595 a month, that will total, through
16 December, $3,800,000.
17 There are net basic -- I'm sorry -- there's
18 a loss due to enrollment declines, and the
19 Department of Education is claiming overpayments
20 that have occurred since, probably since June,
21 July.
22 MS. ACOBERT: It's the reconciliation of
23 the two accounts.
24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay.
25 MR. MARTIN: So we're estimating that to be
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
21

1 5.9 million. And that may be high. Once the


2 enrollment numbers settle down, we'll, I think
3 we'll know exactly what that will be. But right
4 now we're saying it's close to six million.
5 So those are deducts. And that gets us
6 down to non-grant funded or net basic grant
7 available for payroll and other non-grant funded
8 expenses of 36.7 million dollars. And that's
9 starting off at 53, and we're down to 36.7 at
10 this point.
11 Then we added back in our special education
12 funding, food service, Medicaid and Medicaid
13 Recovery, and federal indirect costs,
14 administrative costs that can go to the general
15 fund. And that took us to 42 million dollars,
16 43.3 million dollars in revenue.
17 We deducted from that payroll, which is
18 $50,926,000. And that's detailed on Schedule,
19 Exhibit A. And other expenses, which are
20 expenses that would normally be paid monthly,
21 that are really not being paid, but I put them
22 in here to show just what it should look like.
23 But these expenses aren't being paid on any
24 routine basis, it's just whoever screams the
25 loudest and threatens to cut something off, then
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
22

1 we've got to find a way to pay them.


2 So you deduct all of that, and you come up
3 with a negative $11,350,175. Deducting the
4 critical vendors, which is basically the reason
5 we're here for this, requesting this loan, and
6 I've got 16,564,536. We're not -- we're
7 requesting 15 million, which soon we'll make up
8 that delta through some cuts in personnel and
9 some other savings.
10 But the any rate, if you add all that up,
11 we get down to a negative 27,815,711. And it
12 doesn't stop there. So that does not include
13 their critical vendor payments, additional
14 critical vendor payments of 10,549,528, that
15 aren't accounted for here.
16 The biggest part of that is the Internal
17 Revenue Service, which we do have a good number
18 now. I thought it was 12 million. Micah, I may
19 have said that to you at some point. But the
20 actual amount is about almost eight million.
21 And that includes penalty and interest through,
22 I think, September 15th.
23 They are on the payment plan. We are
24 thinking about -- we're going to go to the IRS
25 and ask -- probably propose an offer and
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
23

1 compromise, and ask what they'll settle for.


2 But I don't want to do that until I have some
3 idea if we'll be able to offer them $500,000 or
4 a million to go away. So -5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: In your experience with
6 IRS settlements, what's possible?
7 MR. MARTIN: I think -- and I'm not a tax
8 person, I hate taxes -- but I think, no, I think
9 given the situation in Gary, it's a public
10 entity, you've got the welfare kids, the welfare
11 of city and state, so I think that they would
12 probably -- and there's no way they are going to
13 collect the money. Typically they look at all
14 our assets. There are no assets to look at.
15 They have liens, I think, on most of the
16 buildings and vacant property. But, you know,
17 the likelihood they are going to get seven,
18 eight million dollars, is poor. So I think they
19 would be willing to talk.
20 And I'm told that they were talking about
21 an offer and compromise before, and the account
22 wasn't paid so everything just shut down.
23 MR. ALDRIDGE: And we were informed that
24 another school district in Indiana, which ran
25 into a similar situation with the Internal
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
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1 Revenue Service, was successful in terms of


2 negotiating a fairly reasonable arrangement with
3 the Service. So we most certainly will push
4 that. That's eight million dollars that the
5 corporation simply does not have.
6 MR. MARTIN: At any rate, talking about the
7 trench that they are in, so we have got the 27,
8 plus the 10-five -- 37, 38 -- and we've got
9 other vendors that they just aren't paying, and
10 that gets us up another 15 million. It's over
11 50.
12 And then we've got 47 potential lawsuits
13 hanging out there. We don't know what the
14 outcome of those might be.
15 So they are in really, really bad shape.
16 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Jack, on critical
17 vendors -- and I know that we'll talk more in
18 detail, or maybe we'll do some of this now -19 critical vendors, there is a type of vendor that
20 your belief is we are going to have to, you
21 know, the amount of haircut we can achieve is
22 limited. And then there's another set of
23 vendors that the amount of haircut we can
24 achieve is very significant.
25 MR. MARTIN: Right.
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1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So it just, it kind of


2 depends on the class of vendor and the type of
3 service they provide and whether they are still
4 providing services. Am I kind of right on my
5 thinking?
6 MR. MARTIN: That is absolutely correct.
7 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So all in, though,
8 there's the existing critical vendor piece you
9 think you have to pay, there's the critical
10 vendor piece that you think you can negotiate
11 down, and then there's another vendor class
12 which you think you can significantly reduce.
13 So a 15 million-dollar loan could pay a very
14 significant amount of those. Is that accurate?
15 MR. MARTIN: (Nods head up and down.)
16 And if we had -- probably, Micah, for the
17 vendors, the 15 million, just on our aged
18 accounts payable, a lot of those folks would
19 take 10, 15 cents on the dollar.
20 MR. SCHRUPP: You don't have the leverage
21 of bankruptcy. That always helps get their
22 attention. But cash in front of them might make
23 them interested in taking a smaller payment.
24 But we'd have to orchestrate some sort of,
25 you know, timeframe for them to take payment or
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1 else wait.
2 MR. MARTIN: And the other critical
3 vendors, for example, Gary Sanitation District,
4 the corporation's counsel said we might try to
5 negotiate with the mayor to get some of that
6 forgiven. I don't know how that would play in
7 Gary, but we're going to try that.
8 CIGNA, they basically told us no. NIPSCO
9 said they might forgive interest. But it's -10 it's a big number. And these are venders that
11 if we don't pay them, we're going to basically
12 have to shut the schools down. Then we've got
13 some other things, such as fire safety, we need
14 money for that.
15 MR. SCHRUPP: We're out of funds.
16 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And this is with the
17 state fire marshal.
18 MR. MARTIN: Right. We've talked to the
19 fire marshal, and they are working with us so, I
20 think they are going to give us time to make all
21 these repairs.
22 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay. What do those
23 repairs come to? Do you have a number on those
24 repairs? I know that initially the school
25 estimated one amount, and then I had a much
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1 lower amount from the fire marshal.


2 MR. SCHRUPP: Until you get in to see what
3 the problems are, the systems are working fine,
4 you might not have to make many repairs, but
5 they haven't done any inspections for two years.
6 So you don't know which, you know, what the
7 problems are. We gave a conservative estimate.
8 MR. MARTIN: If you go to slide 18, you can
9 see, I think, we had the fire systems, 419,000.
10 Micah, I think the number that you had was like
11 60,000 -12 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: I think I had 60,000,
13 yeah.
14 MR. MARTIN: And I think we talked about,
15 that might be one school.
16 MR. SCHRUPP: 419 is probably a
17 conservative number, but until we know what is
18 wrong with each of the systems, you know, they
19 haven't been maintained in most of the schools,
20 so there could be some big charges. And I think
21 you have to look at the whole portfolio, which
22 schools are going to be around, and how much
23 more you invest in each of them.
24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Right. Obviously we
25 don't want to invest in schools that won't be
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1 there.
2 MR. SCHRUPP: Right.
3 MR. MARTIN: Other issues, we were just on
4 the phone with the corporation a few minutes
5 ago, and we've got boiler issues in some of the
6 schools now. And one vendor is demanding we pay
7 all past due bills, in addition to half of what
8 it's going to cost to fix the boilers right now.
9 So we're trying to work through that.
10 We have two schools that we've got in the
11 old administration -12 MR. SCHRUPP: Two schools in the former
13 administration building. The systems just have
14 not been maintained, so they are actually
15 falling apart faster.
16 MR. GREENBLATT: Schools that are
17 unoccupied invite theft, looking for copper,
18 looking for metals, looking for value.
19 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So does that mean it's
20 important that if a school goes to vacancy, it
21 needs to go off the books? Is that kind of the
22 message that you're making?
23 MR. MARTIN: Well, it needs to be secured.
24 Because, you know -- and it's not as bad in
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1 but the buildings here appear to be fairly well


2 secured, the ones I saw.
3 MR. SCHRUPP: The newspaper had one the
4 other day, there are some that are wide open.
5 Some are fairly well secured, but some have been
6 completely ripped open. The old Emerson High
7 School is wide open. They found a body in
8 there.
9 MR. GREENBLATT: So they take the window
10 frames, the metal window frames.
11 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: For scrap metal.
12 MR. MARTIN: Having that as a nextdoor
13 neighbor kills your property values.
14 And I think some of the pushback in terms
15 of closing schools is we don't want a vacant
16 building next to us causing our property values
17 to decline. And I understand that. Some of our
18 buildings in Detroit, really nice neighborhoods,
19 close a school and two months later the
20 scrappers are there.
21 And I don't know -- we passed a new law,
22 and I think that helped a little bit, but I'm
23 not sure.
24 MR. SCHRUPP: But then you drive more
25 people out with another unoccupied school, but
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1 if it's open, it's safe, you close it, it


2 becomes unsafe, and people will move.
3 MR. MARTIN: Okay. Let's go to slide 22.
4 And Martin will talk about the facilities and
5 maintenance.
6 MR. SCHRUPP: Just some background on where
7 the corporation is right now, they are down to
8 15 buildings. That includes Roosevelt and a
9 couple support buildings.
10 2.5 million square feet of space in use,
11 most -- a lot of that is empty, some of the
12 schools, you know, whole floors are empty -- 416
13 acre. You have really large parcels in Indiana.
14 Some of the schools are 40-acre sites, and cost
15 a lot of keep the grass cut.
16 In 2013, that seems to be the last year
17 that actual preventive maintenance has been
18 done. You have got three newer buildings that
19 came online in 2005. You know, when you heat up
20 a building, you bring water into the system, you
21 have to chemically treat the water before you
22 let it run through. They haven't done chemical
23 treatment in two years, which is causing their
24 boilers to shut down, and they are spending a
25 lot of money on expensive repairs that could
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31

31

1 have been prevented. But because their cash has


2 been so tight, they haven't even being buying
3 boiler chemicals.
4 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So is that like skipping
5 the oil change to save money?
6 MR. SCHRUPP: It's like driving a car
7 80,000 miles on one oil change. So it really
8 causes damage. So we're, some of the boilers
9 we're dealing with right now are repairs you
10 shouldn't have to make, but because they haven't
11 been spending money on the preventative
12 maintenance it's causing more.
13 They have a lot of roof issues as well,
14 even on some of the newer buildings there are
15 some roof issues.
16 No fire system maintenance, as we said, so
17 we've got buildings that are just out of
18 compliance, but we're working with the fire
19 marshal. So we had six schools at the beginning
20 of the year that had HVAC issues, down to two,
21 but we're Band-aiding a lot of these. We're not
22 actually making complete repairs because of
23 limited cash.
24 The roof replacements, if we did them all,
25 would be over five million. Obviously we don't
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1 have that money, and we have to make some


2 decisions about which schools.
3 West Side High School could hold 3,000
4 students, there are about 800, and it needs a
5 two million-dollar roof.
6 You know, we've got -- did an evaluation of
7 the staff and productivity -- the productivity
8 levels are really low. You've got a custodial
9 crew with hardly any equipment that works, so
10 cleaning floors is being done with a mop and a
11 bucket instead of big labor-saving equipment,
12 because the equipment hasn't been maintained,
13 and maybe it just needs a battery or some filter
14 cleaning, but they are shut down.
15 And so the morale is pretty low. Everyone
16 is sort of predicting doom.
17 MR. MARTIN: Micah, I would say that part
18 of the eight million, a tiny fraction would go
19 to repair equipment and buy some new equipment
20 so they can work more efficiently.
21 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Which would add to or
22 make more possible some of the labor changes
23 your corporation is looking at.
24 MR. MARTIN: Right.
25 MR. SCHRUPP: Separate from outsourcing,
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1 with the 74 custodians, if we got all the


2 equipment working you probably could get by with
3 65.
4 One thing I noticed in the labor contracts,
5 you get almost two months off paid, which is
6 extraordinary. You've got 14 paid holidays.
7 And a lot of workers have three to four weeks
8 paid vacation. So keeping a consistent staff to
9 get projects done is really hard to do, because
10 people are using their time. And so it just
11 makes it really challenging.
12 The next slide just kind of gives some
13 rough numbers in terms of overall cost. We're
14 looking at four and a half million dollars for
15 custodians, the maintenance, that includes
16 plumbers and electricians, about 14 people that
17 make repairs, and then four people overseeing
18 all of that -- two managers and two clerical -19 about 6.3 million dollars.
20 And that's -- that exceeds their levy for
21 capital and maintenance -- so just their own
22 staffing, that doesn't include any parts or
23 outside repairs or anything.
24 The utilities, we're estimating at about
25 3.4 million, so they're heating a lot of empty
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1 space, a lot of utilities.


2 Just some metrics down below, we calculated
3 that they're spending almost $1500 per child on
4 M and O. And counsel of great city schools, you
5 want to try keep that number below a thousand.
6 But when you've got low enrollment, lots of
7 empty space, your cost per student is going to
8 be a little bit higher.
9 Eighteen percent of the budget is going to
10 just operation and maintenance. It should be
11 below 10 percent, but when you've got these are
12 sort of the inefficiencies of shrinkage that we
13 talked about...
14 We looked at student transportation,
15 something the State has actually been helping
16 the corporation with the last year. They are
17 outsourced under a three-year contract -- it's
18 the third year of it -- about 3200 students are
19 transported daily. It's over 55 percent of the
20 enrollment. They have a pretty large walk zone
21 for schools. In Detroit we had a three-quarter
22 mile walk zone, so if you are within
23 three-quarters of a mile you walk. They have
24 extended it to a full mile, even for
25 kindergartens.
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1 What happens is if you are on the outside


2 of that walk zone, you just walk over here to
3 the bus instead of walking a mile to the school.
4 So it increases their numbers. And the bus
5 drivers aren't turning away students that are at
6 the stop.
7 In 2014, at the beginning of the year, they
8 had 87 routes they were running. And that was
9 going to track for about 6.1 million for the
10 year. You're charged on a per day, per route
11 cost of about $380.
12 They reduced the routes by combining -13 some of the routes didn't have full, full buses,
14 so they -- by December they have reduced the
15 routes to 69, which saved about 1.4 million.
16 This year we started at 65 routes, and we
17 were tracking at 4.8 million. Since opening
18 day, they have combined several routes and are
19 down to 61, which is pretty good.
20 We're in a bid year for the contract, so
21 depending on how things go, we'll put it out for
22 bid, I think the last time they bid this they
23 only got one bidder, so they may not have gotten
24 tight pricing.
25 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: This is Illinois
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1 Central?
2 MR. SCHRUPP: Illinois Central.
3 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: You expect on a
4 three-year contract, that can go one of a couple
5 ways. I mean, that's -6 MR. SCHRUPP: There's an option for
7 renewal, so you could negotiate a reduction.
8 Gas prices are a lot lower than they were three
9 years ago, so they may have built in a little
10 bit more cost for that, and now they're, you
11 know, they have got a little more cushion. But
12 you may put it out for bid and get some others.
13 I think to get anyone to bid, we've got to
14 improve the picture. Because bidders are real
15 nervous about providing work without money up
16 front. And that's going to be a challenge.
17 But the State has been helping, Mike Rocka
18 has been real helpful.
19 Food services, I'm not clear on all of the
20 history of it, but there were certainly some
21 accounting and compliance issues that cause the
22 service to go from partially outsourced with
23 management and staffing by the district to a
24 hundred percent outsourcing, so all of the food
25 service staff is employed by Sodexo. Initially
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1 payments were coming to the school corporation


2 and then going out to Sodexo -- maybe they
3 weren't going out to Sodexo -- so they changed
4 the arrangement, and now it goes to the State,
5 Sodexo gets paid and the rest goes to the school
6 corporation.
7 They have a contracted, sort of guaranteed
8 amount, 580,000 Sodexo guarantees. There's not
9 a lot of oversight right now with the contract
10 and the buildings, the monthly invoices. That's
11 a minimum guarantee. So if, if the invoices
12 were scrutinized a little more tightly, they
13 might even get more. But that's all within the
14 food service fund. It doesn't really help the
15 general fund.
16 MR. MARTIN: We think that's a revenue
17 opportunity. Because if we can double that,
18 which our understanding of this business says we
19 can, then we could use that additional money to
20 make repairs to kitchen equipment, any services
21 that support food service, we could use money
22 and take that pressure off the general fund.
23 MR. SCHRUPP: They may not be directly
24 charging food service for all legitimate things,
25 like cleaning cafeterias, garbage related to
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1 cafeterias. So if we can increase the 580 to a


2 higher number, then shift some of those garbage
3 costs and cleaning costs over to food service,
4 that would relieve the general fund of some
5 pressure.
6 MR. MARTIN: And that's consistent with
7 federal regulations.
8 MR. SCHRUPP: Yeah. IT. Jerry?
9 MR. GREENBLATT: The IT organization, you
10 might want to indicate is a pretty inflexible
11 group, because no matter how many users you have
12 for the system, you still have to maintain the
13 system. The more users you have, obviously the
14 more efficient.
15 The Department now has 12 staff members.
16 Eight of them are involved in help desk and
17 field service, meaning wiring the schools,
18 keeping the schools going, keeping the equipment
19 and computers that the students use and the
20 schools use going.
21 There is no -- the -- they are very
22 deficient in their project planning, what they
23 plan to do, when they plan to do it, and what
24 the tasks are and what their costs are. And
25 this is something that's -- that we're working
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1 on very hard right now. Because their


2 computers, their IBM AS/400 old computer, plus
3 their networks, are in a building which is one
4 of the ones that's not safe.
5 So we're working very hard to get them to
6 get out of there. And that's, that's an
7 important piece. The management has not been
8 very cooperative. And we're pushing on that
9 very hard.
10 Technology, the system -11 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: I want to ask you on
12 that, you said study of the cost/benefit of
13 outsourcing help desk and field services. I'm
14 sure that's something you guys have come across
15 in past projects. Is that typically a pretty
16 good option for savings, or does it really
17 depend on the situation?
18 MR. GREENBLATT: What happened is -- the
19 beginning of the year, particularly with the
20 changes of closing schools and moving around of
21 students, the infrastructure has to be changed.
22 So you have at the beginning of the year a much
23 higher intensity of work by the help desks and
24 by the people who are taking care of the wiring
25 and the computers. And during the year that's
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1 going to go down. So that is something that we


2 could flex by outsourcing.
3 The -- we have a mixture of modern
4 mainframe network computer servers and an older
5 AS/400 that runs an ERP system from a company
6 called RDS, which has been around for some time.
7 But a few years ago, somebody at the time
8 convinced the superintendent or the powers that
9 be that they ought to convert to SunGuard, which
10 is a big national ERP system for education. And
11 that was partially done. It was done for the -12 it was done for the student management system.
13 And, of course, that interfaces with the system
14 that built the bus routes.
15 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay.
16 MR. GREENBLATT: There is also the
17 opportunity -- because the RDS system is old,
18 it's green screen, in case anybody still
19 remembers those kinds of things. I remembered
20 last night the term -- you've were heard the
21 term GUI, that's a graphic interface, this was
22 called CUI, character interface. You don't see
23 these much anymore. But within that group -24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Can we sell them as
25 antiques? I mean, I followed how Detroit sold,
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1 you know, about selling artwork in fundraising.


2 MR. GREENBLATT: If we can.
3 The integrated system -- which, by the way,
4 is very much liked the RDS system -- but we're
5 not using the inventory management, the
6 budgeting part of it, the accounts payable part
7 of it, the general ledger part of it, or the
8 financial reporting part of it. They simply
9 stopped.
10 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So they have the
11 technology.
12 MR. GREENBLATT: The systems are sitting
13 there to be used, they just stopped using them.
14 There were no -- there have not been budgets in
15 years, there is not a general ledger, or at
16 least one that is active. So they simply
17 stopped using it, and they said we didn't have
18 the people, and so we stopped.
19 And one of the areas is payroll and the
20 human -- related human resources. The school
21 system uses paper checks, and they are all -22 everybody gets paper checks. And they are
23 carried around with a guard. And there's no
24 direct deposit.
25 And that surprised me when I found out
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1 recently there's no direct deposit. Because


2 some months ago the banks said you're not
3 putting the money in, or at least putting the
4 money in, in time, we can't do direct deposit
5 anymore.
6 The SunGuard system is expensive to
7 maintain. It's about $65,000 a year for
8 licensing it. And it takes a good deal of the
9 staff to use it for scheduling the classes and
10 the schools.
11 And the users don't like it. It's been
12 difficult, and there's been a case recently
13 where they did not report to the State properly
14 or in time because they couldn't get that
15 information out of SunGuard, and they were
16 depending on them to do it. So it's a big
17 national system, but it's not very reactive to
18 Indiana.
19 There's also, because one of the systems
20 that they are not using, but they have, is fixed
21 assets. So they used to tag properties, they
22 used to do those things, but they stopped doing
23 that sometime ago as well.
24 And the Title I people there are required
25 to tag assets and to account for assets that are
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1 supplied by Title I. So a system called WASP,


2 which actually involves some funds and RFID
3 technology was bought or was licensed and
4 installed by IT, but is not being implemented,
5 because there is really nobody to implement it.
6 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Does that mean they are
7 missing out on Title I possible revenue because
8 of this?
9 MR. GREENBLATT: I haven't heard that they
10 are. But I think the rope is playing out,
11 before somebody's going to say you haven't
12 implemented.
13 MR. SCHRUPP: It's a compliance issue.
14 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: It's a compliance issue
15 with Title I, but not as though they are missing
16 revenue, but it is a potential issue.
17 MR. GREENBLATT: There is another issue
18 here or another possibility exists, it's newer
19 technology, and generally people call it cloud
20 technology. And that is that you don't have
21 your servers, you don't have the computers you
22 did, you simply change to the idea that your
23 systems will run, quote, in the cloud. And you
24 will access all of your systems through the
25 internet.
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1 This is a growing phenomenon. It's growing


2 technology. Corporations are making -- the
3 providers of this technology are putting huge
4 investments into making this possible.
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Is this being used much
6 in the K-12 setting in other places?
7 MR. GREENBLATT: No, I would guess not.
8 MR. MARTIN: I don't know.
9 MR. ALDRIDGE: Michigan is moving towards
10 that. That's under the former treasurer.
11 MR. SCHRUPP: There is a mixture of some
12 things that are already in the cloud, the email
13 systems and other things, but not everything
14 goes up.
15 MR. GREENBLATT: The philosophy that we
16 found in the systems organization in the schools
17 now is, we take care of it ourselves, we do it
18 ourselves, and we keep it ourselves.
19 Another subject which is getting some
20 notoriety -21 MR. MARTIN: Let me say, I think in DPS, I
22 think we had maybe 10 or 12 full-time employees
23 and the rest contractors in IT.
24 MR. ALDRIDGE: That's exactly right, yes.
25 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And where are they at
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45

45

1 here?
2 MR. MARTIN: We have about the same number
3 of salaried DPS employees in IT as they have at
4 Gary Schools, but a lot of the rest of it was
5 all outsourced.
6 MR. ALDRIDGE: Having outsourcing, as I
7 think was mentioned, really allows you to take
8 advantage of the peaks and valleys in terms of
9 your IT operation. But if you have got 40-hour
10 weeks, X number of days, there's no opportunity
11 in terms of, again, generating those savings
12 that could result again from outsourcing, to
13 have the flexibility to utilize resources only
14 when needed versus just there all the time.
15 MR. GREENBLATT: I was amazed at how -- the
16 length of service of some of the help desk
17 people, some of them with 30 years or more with
18 the corporation.
19 MR. MARTIN: The superintendent thinks they
20 should all be fired, and we should automatically
21 get rid of the floor people, because they don't
22 believe they do anything.
23 MR. GREENBLATT: Well, they track their
24 calls, they track those things, so they are
25 doing that.
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46

1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Are you commenting on


2 that proposal?
3 MR. MARTIN: Oh, no, we're going to get rid
4 of them, I think.
5 MR. GREENBLATT: People are very interested
6 in the famous art collection of the Gary School
7 System. I don't know if you know much about it,
8 but it goes back as far as almost the school
9 system. So some of the pieces in this
10 collection were added more than a century ago.
11 And as schools have closed and people have
12 changed, the way you run the school changes,
13 what was -- and I have been in some schools just
14 a couple days ago where some of the old oil
15 paintings were very, very valuable, are still
16 behind other things on the walls.
17 But we -- as schools close, the art, good
18 and bad, was moved to a warehouse, which is
19 also -- which is very perilous because of the
20 condition of the warehouse.
21 I'm glad to say that yesterday we moved
22 about 80 paintings out of there to the
23 Conservation Center, which is in Chicago. They
24 are only for preserving and fixing if you want
25 to pay for it. And what we're asking them to do
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1 is to take it, assess it, store it until we make


2 decisions on exactly what to do with it.
3 There are many stories out there about
4 where some of the other paintings are, who might
5 have taken them, and those things. Some of them
6 appear to be true, but we're not going to go
7 running, you know, "The Woman in Gold" story
8 looking for multimillion dollars worth of stolen
9 art.
10 The restoration or the Conservation Center
11 is not authorized -- they do not do
12 appraisals -- and so any restoration work or
13 appraisal work is still to be considered.
14 MR. MARTIN: I'd say that the Board of
15 Education, when we first talked about moving
16 art, I think the first investigator had the name
17 auctioneer in its title, the name of the
18 company, and they really reacted to that.
19 So we met with them and told them that all
20 we're interested in doing is preserving that
21 art. We don't want it disappearing or
22 continuing to deteriorate while we're working in
23 the school corporation. They all seemed to
24 understand that, so they agreed to let it go to
25 Chicago. But we've got to get them the
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1 inventory list.
2 MR. GREENBLATT: Yeah.
3 MR. MARTIN: Okay. Revenue enhancement
4 initiatives. We are looking at a total of 60
5 million dollars. I don't think there are any
6 revenue enhancements that are going to
7 significantly dent that. But we have to look at
8 trying to bring as much revenue into the
9 corporation as we can.
10 So we've -- we are trying to get all of the
11 required budget submissions into the State. And
12 Marvin is helping us out with that a lot. We
13 think that, just submitting those various
14 reports, the Form 1, 2, 3, and all the rest of
15 the complicated system, just getting those in
16 will help us generate revenue.
17 And Courtney has been helping us get that
18 done, so we appreciate that.
19 Auction, we have an RFP that's gone out to
20 auction our surplus materials -- I mean,
21 materials, equipment, whatever we have. There's
22 a lot of stuff sitting around in warehouses.
23 It's not a lot of money, but it's something that
24 we might be able to use to maintain and fix
25 equipment. So that RFP is out.
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1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: What about land? You


2 guys talked about land, and there's a large
3 amount of land; is that a potential revenue
4 opportunity?
5 MR. MARTIN: It's a potential opportunity,
6 and we'll investigate that, but all of that land
7 has tax liens on it, so whatever we get, the IRS
8 will take it.
9 Well, you might be able to negotiate
10 something since it's a school corporation, but
11 they would -- there's -- we're not -- we're
12 assuming we won't get anything from selling
13 land. But we've got this other equipment and
14 supplies in the district.
15 Medicaid revenue enhancement, we've had our
16 Medicaid people come in, and I think the
17 corporation is receiving about 300,000 a year
18 from Medicaid. And that's -- those are Medicaid
19 services, Medicaid reimbursement eligible
20 services delivered to our special needs kids,
21 speech therapy, occupational, speech therapy,
22 hearing, all of those kinds of services. They
23 are reimbursable to Medicaid eligible children.
24 What we've got, we think that number could
25 be doubled. But again, the order of magnitude,
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50

50

1 300,000 versus 600,000, so we just want to


2 maximize what we receive, but it's not going to
3 fix the problem.
4 Transportation fund, we think that with
5 additional collections there, we might, there
6 might be some excess that we can use for general
7 operating purposes.
8 MS. SCHAAFSMA: When you say additional
9 collections there -10 MR. SCHRUPP: The collections, if we can
11 tighten up the cost on transportation, there may
12 be a little bit of a surplus, and it goes to the
13 rainy day fund.
14 MR. MARTIN: We talked a little bit about
15 food services already.
16 Cost reduction initiatives, I think we were
17 just looking at the previous slides that I went
18 through on the dollars. We've got to
19 significantly reduce labor and transportation
20 costs. That's, if there's any prayer for a
21 school corporation, it's going to have to come
22 from significantly cutting back on that. And
23 that's how we're pursuing.
24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: How does health
25 insurance match the typical market? I mean, are
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1 they -2 MR. MARTIN: I think that their plan is


3 probably Brad's plan. That's what it's gotten
4 down to. I think it started to cut -- I don't
5 know -- last year they cut once, and when I met
6 with CIGNA in Chicago, they confirmed it's not a
7 great plan, but it is a plan so it's better than
8 nothing.
9 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: How about salaries and
10 other, other benefits to employees, teachers or
11 other employees, as compared to kind of the
12 market?
13 MR. MARTIN: I think the salaries -- you
14 would have to talk to HR and Dr. Pruitt -- I
15 think salaries are competitive, which is
16 different than Detroit. We were quite a bit
17 under the market there. But I think they
18 started 40, 42 thousand dollars, or something
19 like that. I think that's compared to other
20 school corporations.
21 And I think they also have an issue with a
22 lot of the teachers. Some of the teachers, we
23 had one that left that was 91 or 81.
24 MR. GREENBLATT: There's at least one.
25 MR. MARTIN: So they have got a lot of
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October 22, 2015
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1 teachers that are maxed out. So to the extent


2 that we can get those folks to retire -3 probably the only way to get them out is to
4 retire, and we can save a lot of money.
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: We've seen school
6 corporations do the incentive packages and some
7 of those other things.
8 MR. SCHRUPP: And the other one was
9 shifting folks to Medicare.
10 MR. MARTIN: Yeah, we've looked at that,
11 and I think based on, I think federal law, I
12 don't think we can force them, as long as they
13 are working full-time, we can't force them to go
14 to Medicare.
15 But we are looking at -- we know, I believe
16 that most of the folks that could be on Medicare
17 are still on the corporation's health plan, and
18 doing that because they have dependents.
19 And we are going to do an independent
20 audit, both the Medicare eligible and all the
21 employees. And typically -- we think we'll have
22 some -- I know we'll have some savings at least
23 in that.
24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Is there a rule of thumb
25 for an independent care audit? I know we did
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October 22, 2015
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1 one in the State of Indiana four years ago


2 maybe.
3 MS. SCHAAFSMA: 2010.
4 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And I don't know what
5 kind of savings they got.
6 MR. MARTIN: 570, something like that.
7 This group that we're working with out of
8 California, they say they can maybe add three or
9 four percent to that. Because they do -- they
10 really drill down to transfer the birth
11 certificates and all the documentation.
12 Typically it's not asked for in an independent
13 audit. But we're going to get that started
14 shortly.
15 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay.
16 MR. MARTIN: And there is an RFI out for
17 outsourcing maintenance. And the noise level on
18 that is less than I expected, and there may be
19 more coming. But so far, you know, the board
20 went along with it, with some questions, and the
21 union is having -22 MR. SCHRUPP: I think a lot of the workers
23 are kind of wondering when it would happen. But
24 other school corporations that have done it have
25 faced some opposition, more political, and I
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October 22, 2015
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1 don't think there's really much -- and I don't


2 know if there's a legal challenge that anybody
3 could bring, but it's certainly a political
4 thing.
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: How about -- and maybe
6 you have some of this on here -- but what about
7 shared services? So opportunities to, whether
8 it's shared services with, you know, the City of
9 Gary, or shared services with Hammond School
10 Corporation or some other entity, or it's even
11 just kind of the shared purchase agreements,
12 sort of taking advantage of those, and what kind
13 of opportunities are in that space?
14 MR. MARTIN: There are -- we actually
15 talked to the charter school company that's
16 running Roosevelt. And they have the
17 capacity -18 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Edison?
19 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. And they are ready to
20 take over probably HR and payroll. But that's
21 kind of a political issue through not only the
22 local folks but through you, the State, about
23 the -- doing something like that.
24 But in Michigan there's big shared services
25 initiative. As a matter of fact, the DPS, we,
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October 22, 2015
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1 our food service program probably serviced about


2 10 charter schools in some other smaller
3 districts.
4 MR. SCHRUPP: 44.
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And I know we have a
6 pretty robust, you know, whether it's through -7 what do they call it -- the group I'm thinking
8 of, Marvin, the CISC, where they purchase the
9 buses, right? But there's several types.
10 MR. WARD: Yes. There are several across
11 the state.
12 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Yeah, there are similar
13 across the state, where you can purchase
14 different types of things. I just didn't know
15 if Gary has taking advantage of those shared
16 purchase agreements or not.
17 MR. MARTIN: That's something we have
18 explored and will continue to explore.
19 Accounts payable, you know, I said 15
20 million, we -- that's not a wild guess -- but
21 they don't reconcile the accounts payable, and
22 in our research for liabilities we sent out
23 sample confirmations that come back, and I think
24 only one or two out of 25 of the vendors agreed
25 with what the school corporation said they were
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October 22, 2015
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1 owed. So the numbers, some are higher, some are


2 lower.
3 And they just don't -- so before you pay
4 it, you really need to do an investigation to
5 see if we already paid it.
6 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Let me move to the one
7 just above that, school consolidation options.
8 What are some of the thoughts there?
9 MR. MARTIN: That's what we're going to be
10 looking at long term. The board has a retreat,
11 I think it's November 13th, and we're trying to
12 get them to put on the agenda discussion about
13 the future of the Gary School Corporation, what
14 it's going to look like -- and certainly in
15 concert with the Department of Education and
16 others.
17 But they need to understand, they can't
18 continue on the current trajectory. I think
19 they all understand that. I don't think that's
20 a problem.
21 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: How about the
22 opportunity for savings specifically associated
23 with that? Because I know as you guys mentioned
24 earlier, there's kind of the dual edge to school
25 consolidation where you do have some cost
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57

1 savings, but you also may lose revenue from it.


2 Are there -- do you think they have some
3 opportunities there where they can do that in a
4 way that doesn't put them in a worst position?
5 Are there some good options there?
6 MR. MARTIN: I think that the net-net would
7 be that they would say -- I think they would
8 lose enrollment.
9 MR. SCHRUPP: It's very contextualized.
10 You really have to understand which schools
11 you're combining together. For example, West
12 Side High School, general education high school,
13 if you were to close that and bring it together
14 with Wert, which is an application program, will
15 those parents of the application students just
16 bolt? Because they don't want mixtures of
17 population.
18 So we've got to do some deep dive before we
19 march in and just start closing and
20 consolidating. But certainly the inefficiencies
21 are there. We've got one high school that can
22 hold every high school student that they have
23 enrolled now. I mean, the numbers work. It's
24 just a question of, you know, will you lose more
25 in revenue than you save by closing?
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1 You know, they have got a few school


2 blocks, I think in the report you saw, 125
3 students in the building.
4 MR. MARTIN: And that's only one of the
5 closings. That's where we had some kids
6 transfer, we had to transfer those kids to
7 another school, and we got some pushback.
8 MR. SCHRUPP: It was actually approved for
9 closure by the board. It got delayed because
10 the receiving school had a freeze-up on their
11 boiler system and had to close for two years,
12 for almost two years, so those two schools were
13 in the Watson building together. The building
14 was fixed over the summer, and they were both
15 supposed to go, but they kept the other one
16 open.
17 But now the board is sort of backtracking
18 and saying, oh, maybe we shouldn't close that
19 one. So it's a tough thing to do. They have
20 closed a lot of schools, and I'm sure they are
21 tired of it.
22 MR. MARTIN: And so that's something that
23 we will be discussing with the school board and
24 others, you know, and really trying to see what
25 makes sense and what everybody can get behind,
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October 22, 2015
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1 and then do some estimating on what the


2 enrollment losses are going to be if we combine
3 schools and see if the net-net is positive. But
4 it's something we can't just willy-nilly do and
5 expect a positive outcome.
6 MR. SCHRUPP: And a lot of times you want
7 to combine a closure with something new,
8 something attractive. You don't want to just
9 say, well, everything is going great, we're
10 going to move kids over. You want to have
11 academic programs that are attractive. When you
12 are losing kids for a lot of reasons, probably
13 some of it has to do with academic programs, so
14 the school corporation and academic leaders have
15 to really put together that plan that's going to
16 attract kids back as well as be more efficient.
17 MR. MARTIN: And lastly, I think we want to
18 take a look -- I guess they looked at -- the
19 corporation looked at the state's health care
20 system at some point. And I don't know what the
21 result of that was. I don't recall if it would
22 have been less expensive to go with the State.
23 I don't know. But we're going to look at it
24 again, since CIGNA the contract is up in
25 December. And they -- they are saying it's
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October 22, 2015
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1 going to be a 10, 15 percent rate increase.


2 I would like -- I am going to have Milliman
3 Company, actuaries, take a look at the rate we
4 now have with CIGNA. I think it may be a little
5 high based on how they reacted when I talked
6 about bidding it out.
7 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Good.
8 MR. MARTIN: Slide 31, the viability of the
9 school corporation, the State Board of Accounts,
10 their financial statement and federal single
11 audit report addressed this issue in July -- the
12 June 30, 2014 audit, page 4, going concern
13 discussion, and on the previous audit they were
14 going concern, not a qualification, I don't
15 think, but discussions. And then page 15, note
16 8 talks about -- and the most recent audit
17 report talks about the viability of the
18 district.
19 The precarious future, the next budget, the
20 debt burden is high, but I think all the debt is
21 being serviced, not delinquent on any debt
22 payments to my knowledge. I think there will
23 be, continue to be enrollment losses based on
24 people leaving the city and continuing to
25 transfer the kids to suburban districts and
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61

1 charter schools.
2 And it's a vicious cycle, enrollment
3 declines, lost revenue, cost cutting and school
4 closures, student enrollment declines and lost
5 revenue. And it doesn't end. And we -- I think
6 you see the same kind of thing in other urban
7 settings commonly.
8 To be successful we think we need to
9 eliminate the cash emergencies. We need to
10 right-size the number of staff with the number
11 of students. And Dr. Pruitt is attacking that,
12 and not getting the cooperation, I think, from
13 the HR people, who -- competency may be an issue
14 there. But we're looking and want to make sure
15 we have just the number of teachers we need for
16 the enrollment the school has.
17 Relief from excessive competition, that's
18 an issue throughout the country, so I don't -- I
19 don't personally see that happening. I think
20 the school choice, that's going to continue.
21 So when I was at DPS, they said the only
22 way to ensure that your student population is
23 going to grow is to offer a superior product.
24 And if you can offer a better education product,
25 the kids will come. And I have seen that all
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October 22, 2015
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1 over.
2 So that's the thing. And we can talk about
3 academics, but that's -- we haven't really
4 talked to Dr. Pruitt about that -- but that's
5 something we're going to bring up at this board
6 retreat, if they can, if we have got bad schools
7 the kids are going to leave. The parents are
8 going to take them out, except the parents that
9 lack the sophistication to know the kids need a
10 good education. So that's an issue.
11 Turnaround plan, we had a little discussion
12 about what the turnaround plan is going to look
13 like. And I don't know if Bill agrees with me
14 totally.
15 MR. ALDRIDGE: Yes.
16 MR. MARTIN: For me, the only way we're
17 going to survive, out of the box we're going to
18 have to shed some labor costs. If we don't do
19 that, there won't be anything to talk about.
20 So.
21 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: How about -- you know, a
22 couple other points -- the community engagement,
23 and the development of strategic planning,
24 community buy in, are you finding that within
25 the region, whether it's within the school
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October 22, 2015
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1 district boundaries itself, the population


2 there, or community partners, there's campus
3 there for Indiana University, there's others.
4 Is there a collaboration, a buy-in, a group of
5 people that are up there that are kind of really
6 coming to help, or is the school corporation
7 kind of on its own?
8 MR. MARTIN: I think that's a very
9 interesting point. Because I think that from
10 what I have seen so far, they are basically on
11 their own.
12 I've talked to the Kresge Foundation and a
13 couple other foundations to meet with them and
14 see if there is anything they might -- some of
15 the foundations that operate nationally on
16 education issues -- see if there is anything
17 they might want to do.
18 Unlike the City of Detroit, practically
19 every school has a major corporation behind it.
20 And they don't do anything to fund operations,
21 but they offer all kinds of programs to help the
22 kids, and, you know, quality of life kind of
23 things. And we don't see this here.
24 The only thing I have heard is the Jackson
25 family donating a million dollars, or something
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October 22, 2015
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1 like that, and Magic Johnson said if the Jackson


2 family gives you a million dollars, I will, but
3 you would be lucky if you could get 5,000
4 collectively -- might be just from that kind of
5 thing.
6 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So I would say, a
7 question I have, and so I thought maybe when we
8 began this process of kind of following the
9 legislation that was passed, I called a few
10 folks, I called IU Northwest, I called some
11 others, and there was the expression of a
12 willingness to be involved. So I think
13 that's -- those are some that we really need to
14 pursue. We would really like your group to run
15 down some of those channels, just to see if
16 there's -- and I'll just use the IU example -17 so obviously they have a campus there, but they
18 are tied into a much broader campus, statewide
19 level, are there things, you know, projects, are
20 there kinds of -- I mean, even as we talked
21 about IT problems, I mean, are there, you know,
22 folks that are looking for IT internships that
23 could go in and do a three-week system overhaul.
24 And I don't know if there is significant
25 savings in those kinds of opportunities.
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October 22, 2015
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1 think there could be.


2 But I would also say are there ways in
3 which the school corporation can become a bigger
4 partner, and these other entities can become a
5 bigger partner of the school corporation, and I
6 think that's something that needs to, needs to
7 happen, and needs to last beyond the tenure of
8 cost cutting and anything else we're doing. But
9 those are going to be things -- how does Gary
10 Schools tap into that.
11 Because we see that -- so I'll say -- you
12 say that's different than Detroit, it's
13 different than Indianapolis Public Schools as
14 well. Indianapolis Public schools, if you look
15 at Center Township, Indianapolis, the poverty
16 rate is not very much different than it is in
17 Gary, very similar poverty rate, but it's very
18 different in terms of the community that's
19 there, the corporations that are present, the
20 opportunities that are there for all these other
21 levels of engagement.
22 But there are some avenues that I do think
23 Gary Schools could tap into through the
24 universities that are there. You know, there
25 are hospital corporations that are there because
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October 22, 2015
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1 there are people there. And so I do think there


2 are some opportunities there.
3 It's harder than it is here, or harder than
4 it is in Detroit, because there's not as much
5 right there, but I do think there are some
6 opportunities that need to be looked into.
7 MR. MARTIN: I think there is some
8 collaboration with IU in the special needs area.
9 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: I think that's true.
10 And I'm not saying there isn't anything there.
11 MR. MARTIN: But I think what we need to do
12 is probably look at, make that a separate task
13 in terms of a plan. So we can -- we'll look
14 into that.
15 And I think probably one reason, Micah, I
16 believe it's not happening, is leadership at the
17 corporation, you know, to get people involved
18 and wanting to help you out, you have to go and
19 ask them. And if you don't do that, then...
20 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And that actually brings
21 me to another thing I wanted to talk about,
22 which is again around the topic of community
23 engagement buy-in is fundraising, you know,
24 so -- and I don't know that there's a lot of
25 opportunity to fundraise. But if you look at
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October 22, 2015
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1 your population numbers in your early slides of


2 Gary, I think it shows that it's just been
3 shedding population for years.
4 And that tells you a few things. I mean,
5 obviously it tells you that they are losing
6 revenue in Gary, but it also tells you that you
7 have a large number of people that have a
8 history in Gary, that are now somewhere else,
9 and that may be, there may be opportunities to
10 tap into some of those networks as well for some
11 of these other opportunities.
12 Again, do I think it solves the problem?
13 Of course not. But do I think there are maybe
14 some opportunities there.
15 MR. MARTIN: I think if you went after the
16 former students, I'd almost guarantee you will
17 get something.
18 We had, DPS has a summer camp, and we
19 decided that we wanted to make that camp more
20 robust and get more kids, and just went out
21 asking for money, and it started coming in, set
22 up a website -- I mean a lot of money. And
23 that's from people as far away as some former
24 students living in Spain, just saw it. One lady
25 talked about giving us a million dollars.
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October 22, 2015
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1 So they, people remember their grade


2 schools and high schools and what's happening in
3 that city. Many folks are willing to help out,
4 help the kids, the bottom line.
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And I think the other
6 point on that, and my last point on this, is now
7 is the time. Because there should be a much
8 higher level of comfort with the financial
9 controls that are in place, because you guys are
10 here and doing this, taking control of it. So
11 that's something I would just want to make sure
12 we strike while there's at least the possibility
13 of the iron being hot on that.
14 Because, you know, when there wasn't that
15 comfort, of levels of financial decisions being
16 made, it makes that a lot harder to tap into.
17 MR. SCHRUPP: I think you made a good point
18 about the university. One of the things we saw
19 in Detroit, a lot of the reemergence happened in
20 the core of the city around Wayne State
21 University, which is a major employer, a lot of
22 big presence right in the middle of the city, so
23 a lot of the turnaround is happening and growing
24 out from there, which is also real close to the
25 hospital core as well.
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October 22, 2015
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1 So between the universities, the hospital


2 core, maybe U.S. Steel, I'm not sure if they
3 have been involved at all, getting those key
4 stakeholders who have got investments in the
5 area to collaborate around the strategic plan
6 to, you know, return the city.
7 MR. MARTIN: Okay. 33, we're commencing on
8 33, we're looking at four ways in which the 15
9 million dollars would be paid.
10 First, we've already mentioned the laying
11 off of a hundred teachers and a hundred support
12 staff, good round numbers.
13 There is provision, I think it's actually
14 in the middle of that first paragraph, IC
15 20-28-7.5, that we believe, or at least our
16 labor counsel tells us we cannot lay off
17 teachers -- I think the window is May through
18 July or something, we won't be allowed to lay
19 off teachers due to enrollment losses.
20 We're looking at that, but that is, if that
21 is the case, we're assuming whatever we do with
22 respect to layoffs, the full impact of that
23 would probably be felt starting in July.
24 Because we start in May, get them out, will take
25 some number of weeks to pay everybody off their
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70

1 unused sick, vacation, and that sort of thing,


2 but we think that the first of the next school
3 year we would be able to start realizing the 17
4 million dollars.
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: That's 17 million
6 dollars annual savings?
7 MR. MARTIN: Right. And we would actually
8 schedule that main labor category -- these are
9 estimates -- so the number would be in that
10 range, we think.
11 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: What would this do to
12 class sizes?
13 MR. MARTIN: I think when I talked with
14 Dr. Pruitt, I think we talked in terms of an
15 average class size of 30 kids. I mean, we
16 wouldn't send class sizes up to 47 or anything
17 like that. It would be manageable class sizes.
18 That was kind of backed into these numbers based
19 on that.
20 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And these are things you
21 said the school corporation recognizes and is
22 comfortable with?
23 MR. MARTIN: I think -- I haven't heard
24 any -- there's been no lack of support on the
25 board for making the cuts. I think the only
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October 22, 2015
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1 thing is trying to figure out, trying get a list


2 from HR, and that's not working, and I hate to
3 say we're going to cut 10 percent or something
4 like that, level of employees, but it may come
5 to something like that. That's kind of where we
6 are.
7 34, I want to, I think, really increase
8 debt service fund levy and appropriation. We
9 think -- that's first bullet on the page -- we
10 think that will generate about six million
11 dollars towards the loan payment.
12 The next bullet, the referendum, if that is
13 approved -14 MR. SCHRUPP: It's on the bottom of the
15 same handout.
16 MR. MARTIN: There is a summary that Mark
17 passed around.
18 MR. SCHRUPP: The single-page handout.
19 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: On how you would expect
20 to repay the loan.
21 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. So we think payback in
22 two years, six million, first two years from the
23 levy and increase, and then 1.5 million from the
24 millage, assuming the referendum, assuming that
25 passes.
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72

1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Now, Jack, I think you


2 would do a repayment of the loan over six years.
3 So I think you would do a repayment of the loan
4 over six years, you would need to get the 15
5 million over six years, I think is what the
6 common school fund is.
7 So it would be -- you would still do -8 that actually makes your payment easier. So if
9 you collected 42 percent over those six years,
10 you would bring in six million dollars, then
11 there would be a nine million kind of delta
12 between the two.
13 MR. MARTIN: Correct.
14 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And that's what you're
15 talking about, if you had a million and a half
16 per year for the referendum, it would cover
17 that. And then I think you're getting there,
18 but what happens if you don't?
19 MR. MARTIN: Then if the referendum doesn't
20 pass, we would default to the cuts, 17 million
21 in cuts.
22 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And then post cuts is
23 the intercept provision.
24 MR. MARTIN: Right. Either way the State
25 would get repaid.
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October 22, 2015
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1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: The State would get


2 repaid.
3 I'm going to -- since we're kind of
4 launching into the discussion of the loan, I
5 think this is probably something, I want to make
6 sure -- everybody is just jumping in with
7 questions as they see fit -- but Jack, what
8 happens if we don't do the loan?
9 MR. MARTIN: I think if we don't do the
10 loan, I think we would be out of business.

11 think it would probably mean trying to have -12 take our kids and move them to other school
13 corporations.
14 Because if the teachers -- nobody is going
15 to work without compensation -- and we're
16 having, we're worried about payroll coming up on
17 the 30th of October. So if we -- if the loan,
18 we don't receive it, then I know that CIGNA, the
19 only reason they're still around is that they
20 expect that we're going to get this money to pay
21 them.
22 That goes for all the other, NIPSCO, all
23 those critical vendors, will cease services if
24 we don't get this loan. And that would -- I
25 think even right now, some of the fringe
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October 22, 2015
74

1 benefits like dental and life insurance, they


2 have been probably two or three months behind,
3 but they have been paying it, so they haven't
4 been canceled.
5 Right now, because of the million dollars
6 that we lost in the basic plan, we didn't make
7 those payments. That's not a whole lot of
8 money, probably $150,000, but they weren't made,
9 and most of them are going into 90-day payments.
10 So it would -- people lose -- if they lose
11 their life insurance, lose their health
12 insurance, don't know, and the buzz is going
13 around the office now, I think, whether they
14 will get a paycheck on the 30th -- I think that
15 with the scarcity of teachers, I think in
16 Indiana and other places throughout the country,
17 I think it will just be a final blow.
18 And even with eight million dollars, or 15
19 million, that really is to deal with critical
20 vendors. So we've got to still figure out how
21 to, you know, pay the transportation -- well,
22 through the transportation fund and the debt
23 service, and those other funds, we think we will
24 continue to make those payments, but we've
25 really got to cut so that we can get to a point
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75

75

1 where we can at least keep the health insurance


2 and critical vendors paid.
3 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Other questions?
4 Senator?
5 SEN. MISHLER: Just a comment. To fill a
6 promise to Senator Rogers, I made a trip up to
7 Gary a few weeks ago, and I think walking away
8 from that I was very impressed with Dr. Pruitt's
9 leadership. I think they are on the right
10 track. I was very surprised, to be honest.

11 expected the worst, and I thought they were on


12 the right track.
13 I met Mr. Martin and some of the school
14 board members as well, and I just feel they have
15 a lot of baggage from past mismanagement. But I
16 do feel the important thing is to remember, I
17 think moving forward -- I was in the classrooms,
18 and I think moving forward they are on the right
19 track.
20 Facilities are poor. Like I was in Gary
21 Wert, water coming down the walls, some of the
22 instruments were ruined. It's an art school.

23 was impressed with that. All the kids were into


24 the arts. So I think that's something, when you
25 talk about unique program, I think that school,
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October 22, 2015
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1 Gary Wert, is a unique program.


2 I'm going to touch on the foundation, or
3 your per-pupil funding. One thing to keep in
4 mind is the reason it's decreasing is because
5 Gary was so much higher than all the other
6 schools. So they have been transitioning down
7 to foundation. I think we started that six
8 years ago, or seven. So that's something to
9 keep in mind. They were almost double per
10 pupil. They are still quite a bit higher than
11 most. They're still on the high end. But we've
12 kind of closed that gap.
13 You know, you mentioned the starting
14 salaries. That's something we talked about when
15 we were up there. You're at 40,500. And I
16 personally thought, compared to my area where
17 the starting salary is more like 30, when
18 you're -- after your salaries, you're already
19 eight million in the hole just after salaries.
20 So you can't just keep doing that.
21 And I don't know what the state average is
22 for -- I don't know if the Department of Ed
23 knows the state average for a teacher -- but I
24 know it's, you know, 40,500 is quite a bit more
25 for a starting salary than in my area.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
77

1 So if you're stretching for dollars there,


2 I think that's something -- and you hate to do
3 it -- but it's something you have got to look
4 at. If you don't have it you don't have it.
5 You want to outsource some things, payroll,
6 I think that's the way to go. But you're going
7 to have a hard time finding a vendor.
8 Outsourcing your IT, going to the cloud, I
9 think that's brilliant. Again, you got to find
10 a vendor. And until you show you're on the
11 right track, you're not going to find the
12 vendors.
13 The other thing that I talked about with
14 Dr. Pruitt is, you know, this is just -- this
15 won't even put a dent in it, this 15 million.
16 And when her and I talked about it, I said
17 you've got to come up with a long-term plan.
18 And I'll tell you what, I was very
19 impressed, she's got a good relationship with
20 Edison, she seems to have pretty good
21 relationship with charters, and I said put your
22 plan together. She said, "I intend to discuss
23 doing charters, innovative network schools,
24 everything, and put it all into one."
25 I think when she comes back with a plan
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October 22, 2015
78

1 like that, I think you're going to have an


2 easier time finding vendors.
3 You need support from your community. She
4 told me there was a large corporation that tried
5 to move in there, and the community itself
6 didn't support it. It would have meant jobs,
7 would have meant, you know, income stream
8 through the tax, property taxes.
9 But I got the impression that was the
10 previous administration. So she seems to have a
11 good working relationship with the current
12 leadership up there.
13 You talked about contributions. I brought
14 up -- I saw some pictures of the wall back in my
15 day, I recognized some of the guys -- and I
16 said, "You Hey, you got some pro athletes out
17 there," and she's kind of looking at that path
18 to kind of maybe try to reach out to some of
19 these folks and get them back in the community.
20 But right now it would be tough. What do
21 you come back to? But she's one of those
22 people, went out, became successful, wanted to
23 come back to her hometown and change the school.
24 So I walked away feeling pretty good about
25 things. And I think this is fair to ask for
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October 22, 2015

79

79

1 this. But I also think that you just have to


2 come up with a long-term goal if you're going to
3 survive. Because I made the comment, can we
4 just shut it down and start over? And, you
5 know, you said, well, you know, there is some
6 thought to that.
7 MR. MARTIN: There is.
8 SEN. MISHLER: That was my comment to just
9 start over, get rid of the baggage, and move on.
10 So anyway, those are just my comments. Thanks,
11 Micah.
12 MR. MARTIN: You mentioned the salaries.

13 think on the salary, I believe the janitors,


14 they are loaded rates with benefits, probably
15 like 50 grand a year.
16 MR. SCHRUPP: Over $60,000 a year.
17 MR. MARTIN: I mean, that's unheard of, you
18 know, in Michigan -19 SEN. MISHLER: Don't tell my guys that.
20 MR. SCHRUPP: The seniority layoffs drives
21 up the average, because you are losing the
22 lowest paid workers as you shrink and so your
23 average goes up.
24 MR. MARTIN: We're going to do the research
25 on that so we make sure we save on that. That's
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October 22, 2015
80

1 why that's so important. They are making


2 probably more than a lot of schoolteachers
3 around the state, the janitor.
4 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Why the loan now before
5 the long-term plan?
6 MR. MARTIN: Well, the long-term plan, we
7 need buy-in from the State, from the local
8 leadership, Gary, the City of Gary, and so it's
9 something that, in my view, needs to be a
10 collaborative effort from all stakeholders.
11 We can't, you know, and many other
12 jurisdictions, they have been at this kind of
13 thing for years and years and haven't gotten any
14 place, so I think at least wherever we go, we
15 need to have everybody on board and we need to
16 hear from everybody.
17 You know, for example, if, one of the
18 things that I ended up doing in Highland Park,
19 we chartered the entire district, and that's how
20 we fixed the problem.
21 I know what Dr. Pruitt is thinking is, and
22 she's not anti-charter or anything like that,
23 she's got a model in mind, so I think we need to
24 develop what she's thinking, get buy-in from
25 everybody, and that's going to take some time.
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October 22, 2015
81

1 We can't -- I mean, I can tell you we're going


2 to do something overnight, but probably trip and
3 fall doing it.
4 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: I guess, yeah, the
5 comment I'll make, Jack, is that I'm comfortable
6 that the State will be repaid in this, because
7 we do have the multiple streams, and we have the
8 intercept always behind that. So I'm not -- I'm
9 very comfortable with the State's piece of it.
10 I think the -- and I agree with you that
11 you kind of have to start here -- I just kind of
12 wanted to have the conversation among the board
13 of, you know, we go for a loan first before we
14 have the broad plan, but my understanding from
15 your perspective as you have looked at the
16 school corporation, without the loan now, we're
17 not having that discussion anyway, so unless
18 we're -- unless we do some -- this action now,
19 we'll never get to that next phase.
20 And that's kind of -- it looks like your
21 team is behind you going yes, yes, yes. That's
22 kind of your impression. That seems to be my
23 impression, as we've talked about this, Jack,
24 but that's kind of why this sequence.
25 MR. MARTIN: We need to be very aggressive
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
82

1 on all the other things we're talking about


2 doing. Because that, even the 15 million, it is
3 a lot of money, but it is a Band-aid. And we've
4 got to, for long-term sustainability, we've
5 really got to fix these underlying problems.
6 And the biggest underlying problem is
7 overcompensation and the unsustainable labor
8 costs.
9 MS. ACOBERT: Jack, what kind of community
10 buy-in, what kind of communication plan is in
11 place?
12 MR. MARTIN: Well, I've met with the
13 senator was good enough to meet with us, I've
14 met with Senator Rogers and the other elected
15 officials there, and I think getting their
16 buy-in would be particularly important if we do
17 a referendum.
18 Meeting with them, I met with the mayor
19 just as kind of a courtesy visit, but I think we
20 need to meet with all of them and the other
21 influential people in the community to get them
22 behind what we, once we conceptualize the plan,
23 that conceptualization, Dr. Pruitt and some
24 other academic folks and DOE, we want to talk to
25 them. We're on a biweekly conference call now.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
83

1 So we would work with the State and others


2 on what makes sense for Gary, what makes sense
3 and what is doable.
4 And I'd just say that there's an urgency
5 because of everything we're talking about now is
6 sort of a plan to let us limp through to June
7 30th. So what happens after that, particularly
8 if there is a major erosion in enrollment. And
9 right now a lot of numbers are in flux. We
10 don't know what our ADM is. I guess we'll know
11 pretty soon. But there are a lot of variables
12 that we don't have answers to.
13 I think we can start planning what it's
14 going to look like and vet that through the
15 various stakeholders, but to write something on
16 a piece of paper and say here it is, State, I
17 don't think that would serve any of us.
18 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Jack, you and I talked
19 previously on the kind of loan structure. And
20 the request today is for a 15 million-dollar
21 loan. Obviously the next procedural element is
22 a Board of Finance, which I think is set up to
23 meet next Wednesday, if the recommendation comes
24 through today, they think they could get the
25 proceeds out within 24 to 48 hours.
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Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015
84

1 Am I right on that, Brian?


2 MR. BAILY: That's right.
3 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Or less than that, zero
4 to 48 hours.
5 You and I had some conversations, Jack, and
6 I want to make sure the board has this
7 conversation as well, that your expectation is
8 you'd like to see eight million dollars of
9 proceeds initially, and then a few months later,
10 by the end of the year or so, have an additional
11 seven million dollars come through for the 15
12 million-dollar total, have it all approved up
13 front so you kind of have that negotiating
14 knowledge.
15 And then you also, you and I also talked
16 about the opportunity to have either the
17 expenses be approved by this board, or a
18 detailed listing of what those expenditures were
19 from that so this board could come back and say,
20 yes, that's what we intended, that's what we're
21 thinking.
22 Is that something this board is interested
23 in doing, you know, having that kind of look
24 through?
25 SEN. MISHLER: There was some talk about
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October 22, 2015

85

85

1 the trust of, you know, who handles the money.


2 I'm assuming that Mr. Martin's group would
3 control the money and make sure those debts are
4 paid. Am I correct?
5 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: That is correct.
6 MR. MARTIN: And right now the accounting
7 people are adhering to that religiously. They
8 won't write a check unless they call me. And I
9 didn't make a big deal of it, but they are -10 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: They get it.
11 MR. MARTIN: -- they get it.
12 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: That's a huge piece of
13 this. And that is obviously in the legislative
14 process, something that was alluded to.
15 MR. MARTIN: And I would say, Micah, I
16 think we may need it all by March or something,
17 I don't think we can stretch it out to June.
18 But we can see as it comes in. But it was eight
19 million for starters, and that would settle down
20 some of the heat.
21 And I would give you -- provide you a list
22 of what we plan to pay, give it to you before
23 the checks are written.
24 MS. WHITE: I think we would appreciate
25 having some information just to make sure that
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October 22, 2015
86

1 we've, you know, we're on the same page with


2 what we understand what you're presenting to us
3 today and that there is follow through.
4 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: And you would want to
5 see it, too, I'm sure for the audit process as
6 well, just to make sure.
7 MS. WHITE: Well, yes, of course, we're
8 going to look at the records when we get there.
9 But we would want to make sure that we followed
10 up on the 15 million, and that it did go where,
11 you know, it was all anticipated to go. But
12 that would be later in the process.
13 MR. MARTIN: So am I to understand that we
14 could possibly have, after this next meeting, we
15 could possibly be funded right after that?
16 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: It would be -- Brian?
17 MR. BAILY: And it's possible it could be
18 that day. That's best case scenario. Worst
19 case is 48 hours after the 28th.
20 MR. MARTIN: I was thinking November 15th.
21 So a lot of folks will be glad to hear that. We
22 won't talk about it yet -23 MR. GREENBLATT: Don't get their hopes up.
24 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Other questions from the
25 board for Jack?
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October 22, 2015
87

1 Obviously we need to have a motion for


2 the -- for this board to move forward with the
3 15 million-dollar loan, recommend a 15
4 million-dollar loan to the Board of Finance, and
5 then we can also put in our, in our documents,
6 some of these other at least procedural things
7 we'd like to see happen.
8 So do we have -- are there any other
9 questions or comments from anybody? Brian?
10 MR. BAILY: Will the term of the loan be
11 part of the recommendation, and the interest
12 rate, be part of your recommendation, Board of
13 Finance?
14 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: So the term of loan is
15 six years, right, by statute?
16 MR. BAILY: That's maximum, yes.
17 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: The interest rates, the
18 statute says zero percent interest rate, but the
19 constitution says one percent. Is that right?
20 Or is it -- can it be zero?
21 MR. BAILY: The statute says zero percent.
22 I'm not sure about the one percent.
23 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay. Maybe I'm making
24 that up. I hope I'm making it up.
25 I think that we would -- I think we would
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October 22, 2015
88

1 recommend to the Board of Finance the best


2 possible rate they could do -- I mean, zero
3 percent would be what we would want to see.
4 I'll, maybe I'll talk to a member of the
5 Board of Finance after this is over. Brian is
6 on the Board of Finance.
7 Yeah, we would recommend, I mean, the best
8 possible rate they could do, which I think could
9 be zero.
10 Other questions? Lisa, do you have a
11 question?
12 MS. ACOBERT: I do not.
13 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Tammy? Senator?
14 MS. SCHAAFSMA: I have a question. Maybe,
15 actually, Tammy, you might be the one that can
16 answer best.
17 One thing from a debt repayment
18 perspective, an initial thought I would have
19 would be putting this loan into its own
20 standalone fund for debt purposes.
21 MS. WHITE: Yes, that is what is
22 recommended by the compliance requirements in
23 our manuals, so yes.
24 MS. SCHAAFSMA: So this would not be -- we
25 would not group the loan repayment into the
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October 22, 2015

89

89

1 standard debt service funds they currently have,


2 for our purposes of budgeting, we would put it
3 into its own debt service funds.
4 MS. WHITE: Yes. It would have a separate
5 fund for the proceeds of the loan, as well as a
6 separate fund for the repayment of this loan.
7 So that's two new funds.
8 MR. SCHRUPP: So it would be paid out of
9 the debt service?
10 MS. WHITE: It would be paid out of the
11 debt service that would be established for this
12 specific loan.
13 MS. SCHAAFSMA: Yes, it would get a debt
14 service levy, just separate from all the other
15 levies.
16 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Do we have a motion on
17 the loan?
18 MS. WHITE: I will move to recommend to the
19 State Board of Finance that Gary Community
20 Schools gets this loan of 15 million dollars,
21 with the best terms that are allowed by statute.
22 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Okay. Any comments?
23 Discussion before? Do we have a second?
24 SEN. MISHLER: Second.
25 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: All those in favor say
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October 22, 2015
90

1 eye.
2 (Chorus of ayes.)
3 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Any opposed?
4 Do we have any other business today? Do we
5 have anybody from the public that wishes to
6 comment?
7 MR. WARD: Yes. Relative to the director's
8 comments there on the separate fund, I would
9 assume that it is not anticipated this would be
10 worked into the '16 budget that's being worked
11 on right now through the process, because we've
12 already had the hearings. We've got adoption
13 scheduled for the 27th. So this would be
14 separately established, and wouldn't necessarily
15 require any special statements on this year's
16 Gateway budget process?
17 MS. SCHAAFSMA: We could -- we have some
18 flexibility on that through statutes to where
19 even though this particular debt fund would not
20 have been advertised originally due to the
21 Department's requirement to fund debt once it is
22 issued, we would have the ability to come in and
23 place this onto the 2016 levies.
24 MR. WARD: So it would show up on the 1782
25 as a separate levy? Okay. Thank you.
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October 22, 2015
91

1 CHAIRMAN VINCENT: Anything else from the


2 board before we adjourn?
3 Okay. This meeting is hereby adjourned.
4 Thank you.
5 (Time Noted 2:17 p.m.)
6
7
8
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13
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October 22, 2015

92

92

1 STATE OF INDIANA )
) SS:
2 COUNTY OF MARION )
3 I, Tamara J. Brown, CSR, RMR, CRR, a
4 Notary Public in and for the County of Marion,
5 State of Indiana at large, do hereby certify
6 that on the 22nd day of October, 2015, I took
7 down in stenograph notes the foregoing
8 proceedings, and that the foregoing transcript
9 is a full, true and correct transcript made from
10 my stenographic notes.
11 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
12 set my hand and affixed my notarial seal this
13 _______ day of __________________, 2015.
14
15 _____________________________
16 N O T A R Y P U B L I C
17
18 My Commission Expires:
19 November 3, 2017
20 County of Residence:
21 Marion
22
23
24
25
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October 22, 2015

1
$
$11,350,175 22:3

16,564,536 22:6

27th 90:13

16.6 13:20 14:20

28th 86:19

Index: $11,350,175..8.4
5

17 70:3,5 72:20

5,000 64:3
3

$15,900 9:4

178,000 8:20 9:8

$150,000 74:8

1782 90:24

3 8:5 48:14

50 13:2,4,6 24:11 79:15

$1500 34:3

18 27:8

3,000 32:3

53 20:8 21:9

$3,800,000 20:16

18.4 14:19,25

3.4 33:25

55 34:19

$380 35:11

1906 8:19

30 9:22 10:18,21 45:17

570 53:6

$50,926,000 21:18

60:12 70:15 76:17

1909 9:13

$500,000 23:3

1960 8:20 9:8

300,000 49:17 50:1

$60,000 79:16

1970 9:19

30th 73:17 74:14 83:7

1 48:14

2 48:14
2.1 13:21

1.5 71:23
1.7 15:6

20 10:18

10 16:2,12,17,21 25:19

20-28-7.5 69:15

11 13:20
11,000 12:4
12 13:20 22:18 38:15
44:22

12,000 12:4
12.7 18:4
123,000 9:6
125 58:2
13 4:7 13:21
13th 4:20 56:11
14 33:6,16
15 5:9 9:20 11:12,13
18:25 20:1,3 22:7 24:10
25:13,17,19 30:8 55:19
60:1,15 69:8 72:4 74:18
77:15 82:2 83:20 84:11
86:10 87:3 89:20

6 9:10,11
6,996 12:7
6.1 35:9

36.7 21:8,9

2.6 13:23

10-five 24:8

3200 34:18

34 71:7

2.5 30:10

10,549,528 22:14

580,000 37:8
6

33 69:7,8

1.4 35:15

34:11 44:22 55:2 60:1


71:3

580 38:1

31 60:8

$65,000 42:7
1

5.9 21:1

6.3 33:19

37 24:8

6.8 20:13

37.2 15:6

60 11:13 48:4

38 11:12 24:8

200 14:3

2000 10:24 11:12


2001 6:25
2005 30:19

4.8 35:17

2010 12:3 15:6,19 18:4

40 51:18
40,500 76:15,24

2011 12:4 14:20

40-acre 30:14

2012 12:5 14:20

40-hour 45:9

2013 12:5 30:16

400 12:10

2014 8:21 12:5 13:23

416 30:12

15:7 18:5 35:7 60:12

2015 4:7,20 12:6 18:25


2016 13:10 90:23
21 15:22

419 27:16
419,000 27:9
42 21:15 51:18 72:9
43 9:19

213 8:6,9

43.3 21:16

22 30:3

44 55:4

24 83:25

600,000 50:1
61 35:19

4 8:17 60:12

53:3

60,000 27:11,12

630 12:9
633,595 20:15
65 33:3 35:16
65,400 9:5
69 35:15
7
7 12:3
70s 10:12
7107 12:6
74 33:1
75 10:17 19:9,15
77,000 8:21
78,000 9:9

47 24:12 70:16

24,600 9:5
25 55:24

48 9:23 10:3 83:25 84:4

86:19

15th 22:22 86:20

27 24:7

8 13:18 60:16

16 90:10

27,815,711 22:11

8.4 13:20

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

Index: 8.6..beginning

8.6 18:3

add 22:10 32:21 53:8

anti-charter 80:22

auctioneer 47:17

80 46:22

added 21:11 46:10

anticipated 86:11 90:9

audit 52:20,25 53:13

80,000 31:7

addition 7:5 28:7

antiques 40:25

800 10:24 32:4

additional 7:5 22:13

anymore 40:23 42:5

37:19 50:5,8 84:10

81 51:23

addressed 60:11

8600 12:5

adhering 85:7

87 35:8

adjourn 91:2

8900 12:5

adjourned 91:3
9
9 13:23 15:5 17:24
90-day 74:9
91 51:23

adjustments 15:14
ADM 83:10
administration 7:23
28:11,13 78:10

administrative 6:20
21:14

9100 12:5
9200 12:5
9800 12:4

advantage 45:8 54:12


55:15

ability 90:22
absolutely 25:6
academic 9:15 59:11,13,
14 82:24

academics 62:3
access 43:24
account 23:21 42:25
accountant 5:20
accounted 22:15
accounting 36:21 85:6
accounts 3:17 20:23
25:18 41:6 55:19,21 60:9

accuracy 19:4,20
accurate 25:14
achieve 24:21,24
Acobert 3:11,12 4:12
13:16 20:22 82:9 88:12

acre 30:13
action 81:18
active 41:16
actual 22:20 30:17
actuaries 60:3

application 57:14,15
appointed 6:1

appropriation 71:8
approval 4:7

approved 4:19 58:8


71:13 84:12,17
76:16,25

agency 17:8

Arrington 5:21

agenda 4:4 56:12

art 46:6,17 47:9,16,21

agrees 62:13
ahead 3:5
Aldridge 5:18 17:3
18:15,20,23 19:22 23:23
44:9,24 45:6 62:15

75:22

arts 75:24
artwork 41:1
AS/400 39:2 40:5
assess 47:1
assets 23:14 42:21,25
assigned 7:6
assignment 7:14
assistant 7:1

allowed 19:3 69:18 89:21

assume 10:10 90:9

allowing 8:3

assuming 49:12 69:21

alluded 85:14

appraisals 47:12

arrangement 24:2 37:4

agreements 54:11 55:16

79:21,23

ayes 4:17 90:2

aged 25:17

agreed 47:24 55:24

average 70:15 76:21,23

appraisal 47:13

areas 41:19

agree 81:10

avenues 65:22

averages 9:22

afternoon 9:16

aggressive 81:25

automatically 45:20

appointments 5:24

area 12:18 66:8 69:5

advertised 90:20

authorized 47:11

appointment 6:24

approve 4:12 5:8

adoption 90:12

Appeals 3:3

60:11,12,13,16 86:5

71:24 85:2

amazed 45:15

athletes 78:16

amount 11:11 14:21

attacking 61:11

back 6:25 21:11 46:8


50:22 55:23 59:16 77:25
78:14,19,21,23 84:19

backed 70:18
background 5:3,19 8:17
30:6

backtracking 58:17
bad 24:15 28:24 46:18
62:6

baggage 75:15 79:9


BAILY 84:2 86:17 87:10,
16,21

balance 14:25 15:3 18:3


balances 15:5 18:25
Band-aid 82:3
Band-aiding 31:21
bank 20:14
bankruptcy 6:4 25:21
banks 42:2
base 20:8
based 52:11 60:5,23
70:18

basic 11:22 20:17 21:6


74:6

basically 22:4 26:8,11


63:10

attention 25:22

basis 21:24

attract 59:16

battery 32:13

annual 70:6

attractive 59:8,11

began 64:8

answers 83:12

auction 48:19,20

beginning 31:19 35:7

15:20 22:20 24:21,23


25:14 26:25 27:1 37:8
49:3

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

39:19,22

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

3
belief 24:20

briefings 7:19

calls 45:24

benefits 18:9 51:10 74:1

brilliant 77:9

camp 67:18,19

bring 30:20 48:8 54:3

campus 6:13 63:2 64:17,

79:14

bid 35:20,22 36:12,13

57:13 62:5 72:10

18

bidder 35:23

brings 66:20

canceled 74:4

bidders 36:14

broad 81:14

capacity 54:17

bidding 60:6

broader 64:18

capita 9:3

big 26:10 27:20 32:11

brought 19:17 78:13

capital 18:1 33:21

BS 6:11

car 31:6

bigger 65:3,5

bucket 32:11

care 39:24 44:17 52:25

biggest 22:16 82:6

budget 3:8 34:9 48:11

40:10 42:16 54:24 68:22


85:9

59:19

Index: belief..claiming
12 86:4,16,24 87:14,17,
23 88:13 89:16,22,25
90:3 91:1

challenge 36:16 54:2


challenging 16:24 33:11
chances 17:21
change 31:5,7 43:22
78:23

changed 37:3 39:21


46:12

channels 64:15
character 40:22

carried 41:23

charge 7:8

budgeting 41:6 89:2

carrying 16:8

charged 35:10

bills 28:7

budgets 41:14

case 14:5 40:18 42:12

charges 27:20

Bingham 5:22 6:2

building 16:14 28:13

Bill 5:18 15:17 17:2 18:13


19:17 62:13

birth 53:10
bit 5:19 29:22 34:8 36:10
50:12,14 51:16 76:10,24

60:19 90:10,16

29:16 30:20 39:3 58:3,13

buildings 10:1,15,17
23:16 29:1,18 30:8,9,18
31:14,17 37:10

69:21 86:18,19

cash 13:19 14:21 15:5


18:3 25:22 31:1,23 61:9

category 70:8
causing 29:16 30:23

biweekly 82:25

built 36:9 40:14

blocks 58:2

bullet 71:9,12

cease 73:23

blow 74:17

burden 60:20

census 9:8

board 3:3,6,9,17 5:6

bus 8:25 35:3,4 40:14

Center 46:23 47:10 65:15

buses 35:13 55:9

central 14:15 16:20 36:1,

6:21,22 8:7,13 47:14


53:19 56:10 58:9,17,23
60:9 62:5 70:25 75:14
80:15 81:12 83:22 84:6,
17,19,22 86:25 87:2,4,12
88:1,5,6 89:19 91:2

31:12

Bush 7:22
business 3:13 4:6 37:18
73:10 90:4

certificates 53:11

boilers 28:8 30:24 31:8

buy-in 63:4 66:23 80:7,

certified 5:20

buzz 74:12

borrowing 13:22

bottom 17:12 68:4 71:14


bought 43:3
boundaries 63:1
box 62:17
Brad's 51:3
Brian 84:1 86:16 87:9
88:5

cafeterias 37:25 38:1


calculated 34:2
California 53:8
call 3:2 43:19 55:7 82:25
85:8

called 7:5,21 40:6,22


43:1 64:9,10

charters 11:23 12:17


13:7 77:21,23

check 85:8
checks 41:21,22 85:23
chemical 30:22

Chicago 46:23 47:25

buy 32:19 62:24

borders 13:1

chartered 80:19

chemicals 31:3

boiler 28:5 31:3 58:11

buying 31:2

54:15 55:2 61:1

cents 25:19
century 46:10

books 28:21

charter 11:24 12:25

chemically 30:21

bussed 11:25

24 82:10,16

chart 15:17

centralized 14:13,15

body 29:7

bolt 57:16

charging 37:24

CFO 6:16
chairman 3:2,9 4:1,11,
14,16,18 5:15,20 6:15
10:3,7,14,25 12:11 13:15
14:12,17,24 15:8 16:15
18:19 19:17,23 20:24
23:5 24:16 25:1,7 26:16,
22 27:12,24 28:19 29:11
31:4 32:21 35:25 36:3
39:11 40:15,24 41:10
43:6,14 44:5,25 46:1 49:1
50:24 51:9 52:5,24 53:4,
15 54:5,18 55:5,12 56:6,
21 60:7 62:21 64:6 66:9,
20 68:5 70:5,11,20 71:19
72:1,14,22 73:1 75:3 80:4
81:4 83:18 84:3 85:5,10,

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

51:6

chief 6:1,2 7:1


child 15:20 34:3
children 49:23
choice 13:6 61:20
chorus 4:17 90:2
CIGNA 26:8 51:6 59:24
60:4 73:18

CISC 55:8
cities 17:10
city 6:3 9:9 15:13 20:6
23:11 34:4 54:8 60:24
63:18 68:3,20,22 69:6
80:8

claiming 20:19

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

4
class 25:2,11 70:12,15,
16,17

classes 9:15 42:9


classrooms 75:17
cleaning 32:10,14 37:25
38:3

clear 36:19
clerical 33:18
close 10:16,17 11:18
13:12 16:14,15,17 21:4
29:19 30:1 46:17 57:13
58:11,18 68:24

Commissioner 3:22

consolidation 56:7,25

common 20:10 72:6

constitution 87:19

commonly 61:7

contextualized 57:9

communication 82:10

continue 8:15 55:18

community 4:25 8:8


62:22,24 63:2 65:18
66:22 78:3,5,19 82:9,21
89:19

company 40:5 47:18


54:15 60:3

compared 51:11,19
76:16

56:18 60:23 61:20 74:24

continuing 11:15 17:5


47:22 60:24

continuous 17:21
contract 34:17 35:20
36:4 37:9 59:24

contracted 37:7

compensation 73:15

contractors 44:23

competency 61:13

contracts 33:4

competition 61:17

contributions 78:13

competitive 51:15

control 14:15 68:10 85:3

complete 31:22

controls 14:16 68:9

closings 58:5
closure 8:12 58:9 59:7

completely 29:6

conversation 81:12

closures 11:12 61:4

compliance 4:3 31:18

closed 11:5,6,9,10,12
46:11 58:20 76:12

closer 11:24
closing 11:21 29:15
39:20 57:19,25

84:7

Index: class..dealing
costs 9:2 16:6,8,19 17:18
21:13,14 38:3,24 50:20
62:18 82:8

counsel 3:24 26:4 34:4


69:16

Counties 3:20
country 17:9 61:18 74:16
County 12:15
couple 30:9 36:4 46:14
62:22 63:13

courtesy 82:19
Courtney 3:21 48:17
cover 72:16
CPA 5:21
crew 32:9
critical 22:4,13,14 24:16,
19 25:8,9 26:2 73:23
74:19 75:2

CUI 40:22

conversations 84:5

current 56:18 78:11

complicated 48:15

convert 40:9

cushion 36:11

collaborate 69:5

compromise 23:1,21

convinced 40:8

custodial 32:8

collaboration 63:4 66:8

computer 39:2 40:4

cooperation 61:12

custodians 33:1,15

collaborative 80:10

computers 38:19 39:2,

cooperative 39:8

cut 16:1,24 17:1,13,22

cloud 43:19,23 44:12


77:8

collect 23:13
collected 72:9

36:21 43:13,14 88:22

25 43:21

copper 28:17

conceptualization
82:23

corner 16:16

collection 46:6,10

conceptualize 82:22

collections 50:5,9,10

concern 11:2 60:12,14

collectively 64:4

concerns 11:1,3

column 20:5

concert 56:15

combine 59:2,7

condition 46:20

combined 35:18

conference 82:25

combining 35:12 57:11

confirm 19:3

comfort 68:8,15

confirmations 55:23

comfortable 5:11 70:22


81:5,9

commencing 69:7
comment 8:6 75:5 79:3,
8 81:5 90:6

commenting 46:1
comments 79:10 87:9
89:22 90:8

core 68:20,25 69:2

confirmed 51:6
Conservation 46:23
47:10

corporation 4:25 9:12


10:8 12:21 18:16 24:5
28:4 30:7 32:23 34:16
37:1,6 45:18 47:23 48:9
49:10,17 50:21 54:10
55:25 56:13 59:14,19
60:9 63:6,19 65:3,5 66:17
70:21 78:4 81:16

corporation's 18:16
26:4 52:17

corporations 44:2 51:20


52:6 53:24 65:19,25
73:13

correct 14:22 25:6 72:13

conservative 27:7,17
considered 47:13
consistent 33:8 38:6
consolidating 57:20

85:4,5

cost 16:21 28:8 30:14


33:13 34:7 35:11 36:10
50:11,16 56:25 61:3 65:8

cost/benefit 39:12

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

21:25 30:15 51:4,5 71:3


74:25

cuts 18:11,12 22:8 70:25


72:20,21,22

cutting 50:22 61:3 65:8


cycle 61:2
D
daily 34:19
damage 31:8
data 12:24
date 19:1
Dave 6:2
day 29:4 35:10,18 50:13
78:15 86:18

days 45:10 46:14


deal 42:8 74:19 85:9
dealing 19:15 31:9

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

5
debt 18:1,14,24 19:4,7,9,
12,13 20:10,14 60:20,21
71:8 74:22 88:17,20 89:1,
3,9,11,13 90:19,21

depends 25:2
deposit 41:24 42:1,4
deputy 3:16

13 21:8,15,16 23:18 24:4


33:14,19 47:8 48:5 50:18
51:18 63:25 64:2 67:25
69:9 70:4,6 71:11 72:10
74:5,18 77:1 84:8,11
89:20

debts 85:3

Desai 5:21

December 20:16 35:14

desk 38:16 39:13 45:16

donating 63:25

desks 39:23

doom 32:16

detail 24:18

door 4:3,4

detailed 21:18 84:18

double 12:22 37:17 76:9

deteriorate 47:22

doubled 49:25

Detroit 6:3,6,10 9:25

DPS 6:9 44:21 45:3 54:25

59:25

decided 67:19
decisions 16:7 32:2 47:2
68:15

decline 13:19,24 15:22


16:12,24 17:6,21 18:2,6
29:17

declined 15:6,19
declines 20:18 61:3,4
declining 8:22 15:11,12
decreases 8:20
decreasing 76:4
deduct 22:2

13:4,5 14:8 28:25 29:18


34:21 40:25 51:16 63:18
65:12 66:4 68:19

Index: debt..ERP
efficient 10:13 38:14
59:16

efficiently 32:20
effort 80:10
Eighteen 34:9
elect 12:2
elected 82:14
electricians 33:16

61:21 67:18

element 83:21
eligible 49:19,23 52:20
eliminate 61:9

draft 7:11,12

Elkhart 3:19

develop 80:24

Dramatic 13:19

email 44:12

development 62:23

drill 18:20 19:6 53:10

emergencies 61:9

difficult 42:12

drilled 18:23

emergency 5:25 6:5

direct 8:5 20:1 41:24

drive 29:24

Emerson 29:6

driven 13:24

employed 36:25
employees 44:22 45:3

42:1,4

deducted 21:17

directly 37:23

drivers 35:5

Deducting 22:3

director 3:8,12 7:6

drives 79:20

deducts 21:5

director's 90:7

driving 31:6

deep 57:18

disappearing 47:21

drop 11:15 13:21

default 72:20

discuss 77:22

dropped 6:13

end 61:5 76:11 84:10

defense 7:23

discussing 58:23

dropping 11:8

ended 8:2 80:18

deficient 38:22

discussion 5:6 8:12

DUAB 4:7 5:8

engagement 62:22

delayed 58:9
delinquent 60:21
delivered 49:20
delivering 8:23
delta 22:8 72:11
demanding 28:6
demographic 12:23

56:12 60:13 62:11 73:4


81:17 89:23

discussions 60:15
Distressed 3:3
district 17:18 23:24 26:3
36:23 49:14 60:18 63:1
80:19

due 13:21 20:18 28:7


69:19 90:20

enrollment 11:7 13:25


E

21 55:3 60:25

doable 83:3

early 67:1

Department 3:14,22,25

doctorate 6:12

easier 72:8 78:2

documentation 19:2

Ed 76:22

depending 9:17 35:21


42:16

edge 56:24

documents 87:5

Edison 54:18 77:20

DOE 82:24

education 3:14 6:16 7:2,

dollar 25:19
dollars 13:20 19:10 20:9,

49:15

enrolled 57:23

dental 74:1

dependents 52:18

enhancement 48:3

duties 7:5

earlier 56:24

depend 39:17

33:25 34:7

enhancements 48:6

districts 9:25 14:9 17:5,

53:11

empty 10:2 30:11,12

Duffy 3:24 4:10

dive 57:18

Department's 90:21

employer 68:21

65:21 66:23

dual 56:24

dent 48:7 77:15

6:16,22 7:2,3,25 20:19


38:15 56:15 76:22

51:10,11 52:21 71:4

3,25 20:19 21:11 40:10


47:15 56:15 57:12 61:24
62:10 63:16

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

15:12,15 16:3 20:18 21:2


34:6,20 57:8 59:2 60:23
61:2,4,16 69:19 83:8

ensure 61:22
entire 80:19
entities 65:4
entity 23:10 54:10
equipment 32:9,11,12,
19 33:2 37:20 38:18
48:21,25 49:13

erosion 83:8
ERP 40:5,10

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

Index: essentially..graduate

essentially 19:5

facilities 30:4 75:20

fiscal 17:8

funded 21:6,7 86:15

established 89:11 90:14

facing 17:11

fit 73:7

funding 21:12 76:3

estimate 13:9 27:7

fact 7:9 54:25

fix 28:8 48:24 50:3 82:5

fundraise 66:25

estimated 9:9 26:25

fair 11:11 78:25

fixed 16:19 42:20 58:14

fundraising 41:1 66:23

estimates 70:9
estimating 12:9 20:25
33:24 59:1

fairly 24:2 29:1,5

fixing 46:24

fall 81:3
falling 28:15

evaluation 32:6
exact 10:5

familiar 8:19
family 63:25 64:2

examiners 3:16
exceeds 33:20
excess 50:6
excessive 61:17
executive 3:12 7:6

famous 46:6
fantastic 18:17,21
Farms 5:22
fast 15:15 16:1,25 17:1,
13

faster 28:15

exhaustion 11:11

favor 4:16 89:25

Exhibit 21:19

federal 21:13 38:7 52:11

exists 43:18
expect 8:14 10:8,9 36:3
59:5 71:19 73:20

expectation 13:10 84:7


expected 53:18 75:11
expenditures 84:18
expenses 18:8 21:8,19,
20,23 84:17

expensive 30:25 42:6


59:22

experience 5:24 6:9


23:5

explored 55:18
expression 64:11
extended 34:24
extent 52:1

future 56:13 60:19

flexibility 45:13 90:18


G

floor 45:21
floors 30:12 32:10

gap 76:12

flux 83:9

garbage 37:25 38:2

folks 9:8 14:4 20:2 25:18

Gary 4:24 5:7 8:9,18 9:9

52:2,9,16 54:22 64:10,22


68:3 78:19 82:24 86:21

food 21:12 36:19,24


37:14,21,24 38:3 50:15
55:1

12:20,25 18:16 20:6 23:9


26:3,7 28:25 45:4 46:6
54:9 55:15 56:13 65:9,17,
23 67:2,6,8 75:7,20 76:1,
5 80:8 83:2 89:19

Gas 36:8

feel 75:14,16

forgive 26:9

gave 7:4 27:7

feeling 78:24

forgiven 26:6

general 3:24 8:8 17:25

feet 30:10

Form 48:14

felt 69:23

forward 5:8 75:17,18

field 38:17 39:13


figure 15:18 71:1 74:20
figuring 7:18
fill 75:5
filter 32:13
final 13:14 74:17

finance 3:13,23,25 83:22


87:4,13 88:1,5,6 89:19

financial 4:24 6:1,3 7:1


13:18 19:20 41:8 60:10
68:8,15

find 17:14 22:1 77:9,11

extreme 20:4

fine 27:3

eye 90:1

fire 26:13,17,19 27:1,9

found 29:7 41:25 44:16


foundation 63:12 76:2,7

founded 8:19
four-year 13:19
fraction 32:18
frames 29:10
frankly 5:14
freeze-up 58:10
frequently 7:9
fringe 18:9 73:25
front 25:22 36:16 84:13
full 34:24 35:13 69:22

31:16,18

fired 45:20
firm 5:21

87:2

foundations 63:13,15

finding 62:24 77:7 78:2

faced 17:5 53:25

43:2 74:23 89:1,3,7

Gateway 18:18 90:16

extraordinary 33:6

funds 17:24,25 26:15

force 52:12,13

60:10

finalizing 13:16

explore 55:18

flex 40:2

follow 86:3

exempt 18:1

existing 18:24 25:8

80:20

21:14 37:15,22 38:4 41:7,


15 50:6 57:12

generally 43:19
generate 48:16 71:10
generating 45:11
geographic 11:1
George 6:19
get all 48:10
get almost 33:5
give 10:5 26:20 85:21,22
giving 67:25
glad 46:21 86:21
goal 79:2
Gold 47:7
good 4:5 22:17 35:19
39:16 42:8 46:17 57:5
60:7 62:10 68:17 69:12
77:19,20 78:11,24 82:13

full-time 44:22 52:13

Government 3:23,25

fund 18:1 21:15 37:14,15,

governor 5:24 6:2

22 38:4 50:4,13 63:20


71:8 72:6 74:22 88:20
89:5,6 90:8,19,21

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

grade 68:1
graduate 6:10

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

7
grand 79:15

hard 15:15 33:9 39:1,5,9


77:7

grant 21:6
graphic 40:21
grass 30:15
great 34:4 51:7 59:9
green 40:18
Greenblatt 5:18 28:16
29:9 38:9 39:18 40:16
41:2,12 43:9,17 44:7,15
45:15,23 46:5 48:2 51:24
86:23

grew 12:14
group 38:11 40:23 53:7
55:7 63:4 64:14 85:2
88:25

hopes 86:23
hospital 65:25 68:25

harder 66:3 68:16

head 25:15

hours 83:25 84:4 86:19

headquartered 5:22

HR 51:14 54:20 61:13


71:2

Indianapolis 65:13,14,
15

indirect 21:13

huge 18:10 44:3 85:12

hear 80:16 86:21

human 6:23 7:24 41:20

heard 40:20 43:9 63:24

hundred 10:9 36:24

70:23

53:12
23:24 30:13 42:18 53:1
63:3 74:16

hot 68:13

52:17 59:19 74:11 75:1

independent 52:19,25
Indiana 3:13,22 9:6

69:1

hate 23:8 71:2 77:2

health 6:23 7:23 50:24

Index: grand..Internal

69:11

inefficiencies 16:11
34:12 57:20

inefficient 8:24
inflexible 38:10

hearing 4:8 49:22

hurts 8:25

influential 82:21

hearings 90:12

HVAC 31:20

information 42:15 85:25

heat 30:19 85:20


I

informed 23:23

grow 61:23

heating 33:25

growing 44:1 68:23

helped 29:22

IBM 39:2

initial 88:18

guarantee 37:11 67:16

helpful 5:5 36:18

IC 69:14

initially 26:24 36:25 84:9

guaranteed 37:7

helping 34:15 36:17

idea 18:24 19:14 23:3

initiative 54:25

guarantees 37:8

48:12,17

infrastructure 39:21

43:22

guard 41:23

helps 25:21

Illinois 35:25 36:2

guess 9:20 12:13 19:25

Hey 78:16

impact 17:16 69:22

high 9:7 10:20,22 20:12

implement 14:16 43:5

44:7 55:20 59:18 81:4


83:10

GUI 40:21

21:1 29:6 32:3 57:12,21,


22 60:5,20 68:2 76:11

higher 10:13 11:10 34:8

guy 7:16
guys 39:14 49:2 56:23
68:9 78:15 79:19

38:2 39:23 56:1 68:8


76:5,10

haircut 24:21,23
half 12:24,25 28:7 33:14
72:15

implemented 43:4,12
important 28:20 39:7
75:16 80:1 82:16

Highland 5:25 80:18

importantly 18:8

hire 14:7

impressed 75:8,23

hiring 14:7,13,14
H.W. 6:20

implementation 8:9

historic 14:2
history 9:7 10:1 12:3
36:20 67:8

77:19

impression 78:9 81:22,


23

improve 15:1 36:14

hit 17:15

inability 16:1

Hammond 13:1 54:9

hold 32:3 57:22

incentive 52:6

handles 85:1

hole 76:19

include 22:12 33:22

handout 71:15,18

holidays 33:6

includes 12:8 22:21 30:8

hanging 16:9 24:13


happen 8:16 53:23 65:7
87:7

happened 39:18 68:19


happening 20:6 61:19
66:16 68:2,23

home 9:5
hometown 78:23
honest 75:10
honeymoon 8:16
hope 87:24

initiatives 48:4 50:16


innovative 77:23
inspections 27:5
installed 43:4
instantaneous 17:17
instruments 75:22
insurance 50:25 74:1,
11,12 75:1

integrated 41:3
intend 77:22
intended 84:20
intensity 39:23
intercept 20:14 72:23
81:8

interest 19:6,12 22:21


26:9 87:11,17,18

interested 25:23 46:5


47:20 84:22

33:15

income 9:3 78:7


incorporated 9:12
increase 38:1 60:1 71:7,
23

increases 9:1 35:4

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

interesting 7:14,19 63:9


interestingly 7:20 13:3
interface 40:21,22
interfaces 40:13
Internal 22:16 23:25

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

Index: internet..Magic

internet 43:25

judicial 6:22

land 8:23 49:1,2,3,6,13

listing 84:18

internships 64:22

July 4:7,20 20:21 60:11

large 8:23 30:13 34:20

litigation 16:8

interrupt 19:19
introduce 3:5,6 5:16
inventory 41:5 48:1
invest 27:23,25
investigate 49:6

69:18,23

49:2 67:7 78:4

jump 5:10

lastly 59:17

jumping 73:6

launching 73:4

June 16:4 18:25 20:20

law 4:3 6:20 29:21 52:11

60:12 83:6 85:17

jurisdictions 80:12

investigation 56:4
K

investigator 47:16
investment 14:22 15:5
18:3

investments 13:19 44:4


69:4

lawsuits 24:12
lay 69:16,18
laying 69:10
layoffs 69:22 79:20

K-12 44:6

leaders 59:14

keeping 33:8 38:18

leadership 66:16 75:9


78:12 80:8

key 69:3

invite 28:17

kick 5:10

leave 14:6 62:7

invoices 37:10,11

kids 10:24 11:4,19 12:9,

leaving 15:13 60:24

involved 38:16 64:12


66:17 69:3

involves 43:2
Iraq 7:13
iron 68:13
IRS 22:24 23:6 49:7
issue 17:20 43:13,14,16,
17 51:21 54:21 60:11
61:13,18 62:10

issued 90:22
issues 6:5 28:3,5 31:13,
15,20 36:21 63:16

IU 64:10,16 66:8

15,16,20 13:5 15:13,20


16:13 23:10 49:20 58:5,6
59:10,12,16 60:25 61:25
62:7,9 63:22 67:20 68:4
70:15 73:12 75:23

24:16 72:1 73:7 81:5,23


82:9 83:18 84:5 86:25

Jackson 63:24 64:1

kind 10:1 12:13 16:5

legislation 64:9

17:11 19:12 25:1,4 28:21


33:12 51:11 53:5,23
54:11,12,21 56:24 61:6
63:5,7,22 64:4,8 70:18
71:5 72:11 73:3 76:12
78:17,18 80:12 81:11,20,
22,24 82:9,10,19 83:19
84:13,23

kindergartens 34:25
63:21 64:20,25

knowledge 60:22 84:14


Kosciusko 3:19
Kresge 63:12

janitor 80:3
L

janitors 79:13
Jerry 5:17 38:8
job 7:17
jobs 78:6
Joe 3:20
Johnson 64:1

legacy 16:6
legal 54:2

kitchen 37:20
Jack 4:23 5:1,2,10 6:15

left 20:4 51:23

kills 29:13

kinds 16:23 40:19 49:22


J

ledger 41:7,15

labor 18:9 32:22 33:4


50:19 62:18 69:16 70:8
82:7

legislative 85:13
legitimate 37:24

living 67:24
loaded 79:14
loan 5:9 22:5 25:13
71:11,20 72:2,3 73:4,8,
10,17,24 80:4 81:13,16
83:19,21 87:3,4,10,14
88:19,25 89:5,6,12,17,20

local 3:23,25 11:2,3


54:22 80:7

located 9:18
locked 16:5
long 52:12 56:10
long-term 77:17 79:2
80:5,6 82:4

looked 34:14 52:10


59:18,19 66:6 81:15

lose 11:22 16:2,12,22


57:1,8,24 74:10,11

losing 15:20 59:12 67:5


79:21

loss 20:18
losses 13:24 18:12 59:2
60:23 69:19

length 45:16

lost 61:3,4 74:6

level 11:7 53:17 64:19

lot 6:4 7:18 11:5,9,18

68:8 71:4

levels 32:8 65:21 68:15


leverage 25:20
levies 89:15 90:23
levy 33:20 71:8,23 89:14
90:25

13:6,24 25:18 30:11,15,


25 31:13,21 33:7,25 34:1
36:8 37:9 45:4 48:12,22,
23 51:22,25 52:4 53:22
58:20 59:6,12 66:24
67:22 68:16,19,21,23
74:7 75:15 80:2 82:3
83:9,11 86:21

liabilities 55:22

lots 10:1 34:6

licensed 43:3

loudest 21:25

licensing 42:8

low 10:23 32:8,15 34:6

liens 23:15 49:7

lower 9:3 27:1 36:8 56:2

life 63:22 74:1,11

lowest 79:22

likelihood 23:17

lucky 64:3

limited 24:22 31:23

labor-saving 32:11

limp 83:6

lack 62:9 70:24

Lisa 3:12 13:15 88:10

lady 67:24

list 48:1 71:1 85:21

M
made 16:7 18:11 68:16,
17 74:8 75:6 79:3

Magic 64:1

judge 6:20

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

9
magnitude 49:25
main 70:8
mainframe 40:4
maintain 38:12 42:7

22 59:17 60:8 62:16 63:8


66:7,11 67:15 69:7 70:7,
13,23 71:16,21 72:13,19,
24 73:9 75:13 79:7,12,17,
24 80:6 81:25 82:12 85:6,
11,15 86:13,20

48:24

maintained 27:19 28:14


32:12

maintenance 30:5,17
31:12,16 33:15,21 34:10
53:17

major 14:1 63:19 68:21


83:8

make 4:2,12 8:4 15:1


16:23 20:11 22:7 25:22
26:20 27:4 31:10 32:1,22
33:17 37:20 47:1 61:14
66:12 67:19 68:11 73:5
74:6,24 79:25 81:5 84:6
85:3,9,25 86:6,9

makes 8:23 33:11 58:25


68:16 72:8 83:2

making 15:14 28:22


31:22 44:2,4 70:25 80:1
87:23,24

manageable 70:17
management 3:8 36:23
39:7 40:12 41:5

manager 5:25 6:5


managers 33:18
managing 18:8
manuals 88:23
march 57:19 85:16
Mark 5:17 6:7 71:16
market 50:25 51:12,17
marshal 26:17,19 27:1
31:19

Marshall 3:20
Martin 4:23 5:13,16,21
6:18 9:24 10:20,24 11:17
12:22 13:3,12,18 14:14,
23 15:4,9,22 17:1,24
19:25 20:25 23:7 24:6,25
25:6,15 26:2,18 27:8,14
28:3,23 29:12 30:3,4
32:17,24 37:16 38:6 44:8,
21 45:2,19 46:3 47:14
48:3 49:5 50:14 51:2,13,
25 52:10 53:6,16 54:14,
19 55:17 56:9 57:6 58:4,

Index: magnitude..nomination

middle 68:22 69:14

morning 9:15

Mike 3:24 36:17

motion 4:11,12 87:1

mildly 18:22
mile 34:22,23,24 35:3

89:16

move 5:5,8,12 30:2 56:6


59:10 73:12 78:5 79:9
87:2 89:18

Martin's 85:2

miles 31:7

Marvin 48:12 55:8

millage 71:24

moved 46:18,21

mass 8:23

Milliman 60:2

moving 39:20 44:9 47:15

match 15:15 50:25

million 13:20,23 14:20

materials 48:20,21
matter 38:11 54:25
maxed 52:1
maximize 50:2
maximum 87:16
mayor 6:2 26:5 82:18
MBA 6:11
meaning 38:17

18:4 19:10,15 20:8,13


21:1,4,8,15,16 22:7,18,20
23:4,18 24:4,10 25:17
30:10 31:25 32:18 33:14,
19,25 35:9,15,17 48:5
55:20 63:25 64:2 67:25
69:9 70:4,5 71:10,22,23
72:5,10,11,15,20 74:5,18,
19 76:19 77:15 82:2 84:8,
11 85:19 86:10 89:20

million-dollar 5:9 25:13


32:5 83:20 84:12 87:3,4

meant 78:6,7

mind 8:1 76:4,9 80:23

median 9:5

minimum 37:11

Medicaid 21:12 49:15,

Minnesota 6:12

16,18,19,23

Medicare 52:9,14,16,20
meet 63:13 82:13,20
83:23

minus 18:4
minutes 4:7,9,13,18,19
28:4

Mishler 3:18 75:5 79:8,

meeting 3:3 4:2,22 82:18


86:14 91:3

19 84:25 89:24

75:17,18

multimillion 47:8
multiple 81:7
N
national 40:10 42:17
nationally 63:15
nationwide 17:4
necessarily 90:14
needed 45:14
negative 14:25 22:3,11
negotiate 25:10 26:5
36:7 49:9

negotiating 24:2 84:13


neighbor 29:13
neighborhood 11:3
neighborhoods 29:18

mismanagement 75:15

nervous 36:15

member 8:13 88:4

missing 43:7,15

net 20:17 21:6

members 6:7,8 38:15

mixture 40:3 44:11

net-net 57:6 59:3

mixtures 57:16

network 40:4 77:23

model 80:23

networks 39:3 67:10

modern 40:3

newer 10:15 30:18 31:14

75:14

mentioned 15:11 16:1


45:7 56:23 69:10 76:13
79:12

message 28:22
met 18:12 47:19 51:5
75:13 82:12,14,18

metal 29:10,11

money 11:21 23:13


26:14 30:25 31:5,11 32:1
36:15 37:19,21 42:3,4
48:23 52:4 67:21,22
73:20 74:8 82:3 85:1,3

43:18

newspaper 29:3
nextdoor 29:12
nice 29:18

metals 28:18

month 20:15

night 40:20

metrics 34:2

monthly 21:20 37:10

NIPSCO 26:8 73:22

Meyers 5:21

months 7:15 29:19 33:5

nods 25:15

Micah 3:7,11 6:18 22:18


25:16 27:10 32:17 66:15
79:11 85:15

Michigan 5:22 17:8 44:9

42:2 74:2 84:9

mop 32:10
morale 32:15

noise 53:17
nominated 6:25 7:17
nomination 7:16

54:24 79:18

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

10
non-grant 21:6,7

opportunity 37:17 40:17

Northwest 64:10

45:10 49:4,5 56:22 66:25


84:16

notable 17:7
note 4:2 60:15
noticed 33:4
notoriety 44:20
November 56:11 86:20
number 9:19 10:6,16
12:12,19 16:3 17:4,6,10,
14 19:11 20:9 22:17
26:10,23 27:10,17 34:5
38:2 45:2,10 49:24 61:10,
15 67:7 69:25 70:9

numbers 13:12 14:19


18:10 21:2 33:13 35:4
56:1 57:23 67:1 69:12
70:18 83:9

opposed 90:3
opposition 53:25
option 14:10 36:6 39:16
options 19:15 56:7 57:5
orchestrate 25:24
order 3:4 4:6,21 49:25
organization 38:9 44:16
originally 90:20
outcome 24:14 59:5
outsource 77:5
outsourced 34:17 36:22
45:5

outsourcing 32:25
O
occupancy 9:21 10:4,11
11:16

occupational 49:21

36:24 39:13 40:2 45:6,12


53:17 77:8

outstanding 19:4
overcompensation
82:7

occurred 20:20

overhaul 64:23

October 73:17

overnight 81:2

offer 22:25 23:3,21

overpayments 20:19

61:23,24 63:21

office 3:8 16:20 74:13


officer 6:1,3 7:1
officials 82:15

overseeing 33:17
oversight 37:9
overstaffing 14:2 15:14

open 4:3 29:4,6,7 30:1


58:16

opening 35:17
operate 63:15

P
packages 52:6
packet 20:3
paid 19:13 21:20,21,23
23:22 33:5,6,8 37:5 56:5
69:9 75:2 79:22 85:4
89:8,10

operating 11:1 50:7

paintings 46:15,22 47:4

operation 34:10 45:9

paper 41:21,22 83:16

operational 11:2 17:19

paragraph 69:14

operations 3:13 63:20

parcels 30:13

opportunities 54:7,13

parents 12:1 57:15 62:7,

57:3 64:25 65:20 66:2,6


67:9,11,14

period 8:16

part 14:18,19 22:16 32:17

person 23:8

41:6,7,8 87:11,12

partially 36:22 40:11


partner 65:4,5
partners 63:2
parts 33:22
pass 72:20

personally 61:19 76:16


personnel 7:21 22:8
perspective 81:15 88:18
phase 81:19
phenomenon 11:17
44:1

passed 29:21 64:9 71:17

philosophy 44:15

passes 71:25

phone 28:4

past 28:7 39:15 75:15

picture 36:14

path 78:17

pictures 78:14

pay 22:1 25:9,13 26:11

piece 25:8,10 39:7 81:9

28:6 46:25 56:3 69:25


73:20 74:21 85:22

payable 25:18 41:6


55:19,21

83:16 85:12

pieces 46:9
pioneering 9:13

payback 71:21

PL 8:9

paycheck 74:14

place 7:11 9:1 68:9 80:14

paying 16:10 24:9 74:3


payment 22:23 25:23,25
71:11 72:8

payments 20:11 22:13,


14 37:1 60:22 74:7,9,24

payroll 18:9 21:7,17


41:19 54:20 73:16 77:5

peaks 45:8

people 8:20,25 14:10

oil 31:5,7 46:14

online 30:19

Park 6:1 80:18

penalty 22:21

owed 56:1

offsets 20:9,12

older 10:18 40:4

Index: non-grant..position

15:12 29:25 30:2 33:10,


16,17 39:24 41:18 42:24
43:19 45:17,21 46:5,11
49:16 60:24 61:13 63:5
66:1,17 67:7,23 68:1
74:10 78:22 82:21 85:7

82:11 90:23

places 44:6 74:16


plan 22:23 38:23 51:2,3,7
52:17 59:15 62:11,12
66:13 69:5 74:6 77:17,22,
25 80:5,6 81:14 82:10,22
83:6 85:22

planning 38:22 62:23


83:13

platoon 9:14
play 26:6
playing 43:10
plumbers 33:16
point 9:7 14:25 19:18
21:10 22:19 59:20 63:9
68:6,17 74:25

per-pupil 15:17 76:3

points 62:22

percent 9:21,22,23 10:4,

political 53:25 54:3,21

10,17,19,21 11:13 13:2,4,


6 15:23 16:2,13,17,21
34:9,11,19 36:24 53:9
60:1 71:3 72:9 87:18,19,
21,22 88:3

poor 23:18 75:20


population 8:19 9:7
11:22 12:3,7 15:12 18:7
57:17 61:22 63:1 67:1,3

percentages 11:9

portfolio 27:21

PERF 20:11

portion 4:22

perilous 46:19

position 57:4

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

11
positive 59:3,5
possibility 43:18 68:12
possibly 86:14,15
post 72:22
posted 4:4
potential 24:12 43:16
49:3,5

problem 17:11 50:3


56:20 67:12 80:20 82:6

problems 8:1 27:3,7


64:21 82:5

procedural 83:21 87:6


proceeds 83:25 84:9
89:5

process 5:9 64:8 85:14

potentially 12:20

86:5,12 90:11,16

poverty 65:15,17

product 61:23,24

powers 40:8

productivity 32:7

practically 63:18

program 6:14 55:1 57:14

prayer 50:20
precarious 60:19

75:25 76:1

programs 59:11,13
63:21

predicting 16:3 32:16

project 38:22

preschool 12:9

projects 18:2 33:9 39:15

presence 68:22

64:19

present 65:19

promise 75:6

presentation 4:23 5:2

properly 42:13

8:4

presenting 86:2
preserving 46:24 47:20

Index: positive..remembered

push 24:3

reasons 17:19 59:12

pushback 8:11 29:14

recall 59:21

58:7

receive 50:2 73:18

pushing 39:8
put 21:21 35:21 36:12
56:12 57:4 59:15 77:15,
21,24 87:5 89:2

putting 42:3 44:3 88:19

receiving 49:17 58:10


recent 5:24 60:16
recently 6:5 42:1,12
recognized 78:15
recognizes 70:21

Q
qualification 60:14
quality 19:20 63:22

recommend 87:3 88:1,7


89:18

recommendation 83:23
87:11,12

quasi 6:22

recommended 88:22

question 12:13 14:18

reconcile 55:21

57:24 64:7 88:11,14

questions 5:12,14 53:20


73:7 75:3 86:24 87:9
88:10

quick 18:14
quote 43:23

properties 42:21
property 23:16 29:13,16

78:8

reconciliation 20:22
records 18:16 19:21 86:8
Recovery 21:13
reduce 25:12 50:19
reduced 35:12,14
reduction 14:21 36:7
50:16

president 7:4,10

proposal 46:2

rainy 50:13

reelected 7:12

presidential 7:21

propose 22:25

ran 23:24

reelection 7:10

pressure 37:22 38:5

provide 25:3 85:21

Randolph 12:14

reemergence 68:19

pretty 10:2 14:6 20:5

Provider 6:21

range 19:3 70:10

reference 19:19

providers 44:3

rate 11:16 17:23 19:6

referendum 71:12,24

32:15 34:20 35:19 38:10


39:15 55:6 77:20 78:24
83:11

providing 25:4 36:15

22:10 24:6 60:1,3 65:16,


17 87:12,18 88:2,8

72:16,19 82:17

region 62:25

preventative 31:11

provision 69:13 72:23

rates 79:14 87:17

regulations 38:7

prevented 31:1

Pruitt 51:14 61:11 62:4

RDS 40:6,17 41:4

reimbursable 49:23

reach 78:18

reimbursement 6:21

preventive 30:17
previous 50:17 60:13
78:10

previously 83:19
prices 36:8
pricing 35:24

70:14 77:14 80:21 82:23

Pruitt's 75:8
public 5:20 6:6,10 13:5

49:19

reactive 42:17

related 5:23 37:25 41:20

pupil 15:25 76:10

ready 54:19

relationship 8:7 77:19,

purchase 54:11 55:8,13,

real 18:14 36:14,18 68:24

23:9 65:13,14 90:5

16

realizing 70:3

primarily 19:1

purpose 19:8

principal 16:18

purposes 50:7 88:20

principals 14:6

reacted 47:18 60:5

89:2

ream 17:18
reason 22:4 66:15 73:19
76:4

prior 16:7

pursue 64:14

pro 78:16

pursuing 50:23

21 78:11

Relative 90:7
Relief 61:17
relieve 38:4
religiously 85:7

reasonable 24:2

remember 68:1 75:16

reasoning 13:9

remembered 40:19

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

12

Index: remembers..settlements

remembers 40:19

Review 6:21

Sanitation 26:3

scrap 29:11

renewal 36:7

reviewing 18:15 19:9

save 5:14 11:21 31:5

scrappers 29:20

rent 11:22 15:17 20:8


repaid 72:25 73:2 81:6

52:4 57:25 79:25

RFI 53:16

saved 35:15

RFID 43:2

repair 32:19

RFP 48:19,25

repairs 26:21,23,24 27:4

Rick 5:25

30:25 31:9,22 33:17,23


37:20

savings 22:9 39:16


45:11 52:22 53:5 56:22
57:1 64:25 70:6

screams 21:24
screen 9:10 40:18
scrutinized 37:12
secretary 6:19 7:1

rid 45:21 46:3 79:9

scarcity 74:15

secured 28:23 29:2,5

repay 71:20

right-size 61:10

scattered 9:1

selected 17:25 19:1

repayment 72:2,3 88:17,

ripped 29:6

scenario 86:18

Selective 7:6,8

Roberts 4:21

Schaafsma 3:21 4:15

sell 40:24

25 89:6

13:8 18:22 50:8 53:3


88:14,24 89:13 90:17

replacements 31:24

robust 55:6 67:20

report 42:13 58:2 60:11,

Rocka 36:17

schedule 21:18 70:8

Rogers 75:6 82:14

scheduled 90:13

roof 31:13,15,24 32:5

scheduling 42:9

Roosevelt 12:8 20:12

school 4:25 8:12 9:12,16

17

reporting 41:8
reports 48:14
represent 3:19

30:8 54:16

request 83:20

rope 43:10

requesting 5:8 22:5,7

rough 33:13

require 90:15

round 69:12

required 42:24 48:11

route 35:10

requirement 90:21

routes 8:25 35:8,12,13,

requirements 88:22

15,16,18 40:14

research 55:22 79:24

routine 21:24

residents 9:9

ruined 75:22

resources 41:20 45:13

rule 52:24

respect 69:22

Rules 4:21

rest 9:4,6 37:5 44:23 45:4

run 30:22 43:23 46:12

48:14

restoration 47:10,12
restructuring 5:23
result 45:12 59:21

schools 5:7 6:1,6,10

64:14

running 7:10 35:8 47:7


54:16

runs 40:5
Ryan 3:18

retire 52:2,4
retreat 56:10 62:6
return 69:6
revealed 19:8
revenue 16:19 17:15,16,
23 18:12 21:16 22:17
24:1 37:16 43:7,16 48:3,
6,8,16 49:3,15 57:1,25
61:3,5 67:6

reverse 9:17

10:8,11 11:12,18,21 12:8,


14,21 13:6 17:4,18,21
20:10,12 23:24 26:24
27:15 28:20 29:7,19,25
32:3 35:3 37:1,5 41:20
46:6,8,12 47:23 49:10
50:21 51:20 52:5 53:24
54:9,15 55:25 56:7,13,24
57:12,21,22 58:1,7,10,23
59:14 60:9 61:3,16,20
62:25 63:6,19 65:3,5
70:2,21 72:6 73:12 75:13,
22,25 78:23 81:16

9:19,21 10:20,22,25 11:5,


9,13 12:25 13:5 26:12
27:19,22,25 28:6,10,12,
16 29:15 30:12,14 31:19
32:2 34:4,21 38:17,18,20
39:20 42:10 44:16 45:4
46:11,13,17 55:2 57:10
58:12,20 59:3 61:1 62:6
65:10,13,14,23 68:2 76:6
77:23 89:20

schoolteachers 80:2
Schrupp 5:17 6:8 9:23

safe 30:1 39:4


safety 26:13
salaried 45:3
salaries 51:9,13,15
76:14,18,19 79:12

salary 76:17,25 79:13

10:5,12,15,22 11:5 12:23


13:14 15:2,11,24 16:17
25:20 26:15 27:2,16 28:2,
12 29:3,24 30:6 31:6
32:25 36:2,6 37:23 38:8
43:13 44:11 50:10 52:8
53:22 55:4 57:9 58:8 59:6
68:17 71:14,18 79:16,20
89:8

selling 41:1 49:12


SEN 3:18 75:5 79:8,19
84:25 89:24

senate 3:19 17:7


senator 75:4,6 82:13,14
88:13

send 70:16
seniority 79:20
sense 12:12,19 58:25
83:2

separate 32:25 66:12


89:4,6,14 90:8,25

separately 90:14
September 22:22
sequence 81:24
serve 3:9,18 83:17
servers 40:4 43:21
service 7:7,8 18:1 19:12
20:10,14 21:12 22:17
24:1,3 25:3 36:22,25
37:14,21,24 38:3,17
45:16 55:1 71:8 74:23
89:1,3,9,11,14

serviced 55:1 60:21


services 6:23 7:24 8:24
25:4 36:19 37:20 39:13
49:19,20,22 50:15 54:7,8,
9,24 73:23

set 24:22 67:21 83:22


setting 44:6
settings 61:7
settle 21:2 23:1 85:19
settlements 23:6

sample 55:23

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

13
shape 24:15

Sodexo 36:25 37:2,3,5,8

shard 16:21

sold 40:25

shared 17:23 54:7,8,9,

sole 7:16

11,24 55:15

shed 62:18
shedding 67:3
shift 38:2
shifting 52:9
shortly 53:14
show 4:19 15:3 21:22
77:10 90:24

shown 13:22
shows 15:18 19:6 67:2
shrink 79:22

solves 67:12
somebody's 43:11
someplace 11:20,24
12:1

sophistication 62:9
sort 7:3 25:24 32:16
34:12 37:7 54:12 58:17
70:1 83:6

space 30:10 34:1,7 54:13


Spain 67:24
special 21:11 49:20 66:8
90:15

shrinkage 34:12

specialist 4:24

shut 23:22 26:12 30:24

specific 89:12

32:14 79:4

sick 70:1
Side 32:3 57:12
significant 8:20 13:22
24:24 25:14 64:24

significantly 9:3 25:12


48:7 50:19,22

similar 23:25 55:12


65:17

simply 17:13 24:5 41:8,


16 43:22

single 60:10

specifically 56:22
speech 49:21
spending 30:24 31:11
34:3

sizes 70:12,16,17
skipping 31:4
slide 12:3 13:18 14:19
15:2,3,4 20:1 27:8 30:3
33:12 60:8

slides 19:5 50:17 67:1


small 12:15
smaller 25:23 55:2
Snyder 5:25

statements 90:15

summary 18:14 71:16

states 17:10

summer 58:14 67:18

statewide 64:18

Sunguard 40:9 42:6,15

statute 87:15,18,21

superintendent 8:8

89:21

superior 61:23

stay 11:19

supplied 43:1

Steel 69:2

supplies 49:14

stolen 47:8

support 30:9 37:21

stop 22:12 35:6


stopped 41:9,13,17,18
42:22

survive 62:17 79:3

story 47:7

sustainability 82:4

strategic 62:23 69:5

system 7:7 9:14 11:20

staff 3:6 18:11,12 32:7

stretching 77:1

start 5:2 57:19 69:24 70:3


79:4,9 81:11 83:13

started 7:7 35:16 51:4,18


53:13 67:21 76:7

starters 85:19
starting 21:9 69:23
76:13,17,25

state 3:16 6:11 9:4,6


18:17 23:11 26:17 34:15
36:17 37:4 42:13 48:11
53:1 54:22 55:11,13
59:22 60:9 68:20 72:24

surplus 48:20 50:12

stories 47:3

stretch 85:17

standard 89:1

supposed 58:15

surprised 41:25 75:10

St 3:20

standalone 88:20

69:11 70:24 78:3,6

store 47:1

stressed 9:25

83:15

40:8 45:19

statutes 90:18

square 30:10

stakeholders 69:4 80:10

size 70:15

summarizes 20:5

streams 81:7

sites 30:14

situation 23:9,25 39:17

statement 60:10

spread 16:20 17:9

staffing 33:22 36:23

78:22

suggests 12:24

stream 78:7

33:8 36:25 38:15 42:9


61:10 69:12

successful 24:1 61:8

state's 59:19 81:9

spent 7:18

single-page 71:18

sitting 41:12 48:22

73:1 76:21,23 80:3,7 81:6


83:1,16 89:19

Index: shape..talking

18:17 30:20 31:16 38:12,


13 39:10 40:5,10,12,13,
17 41:3,4,21 42:6,17 43:1
46:7,9 48:15 58:11 59:20
64:23

systems 27:3,9,18 28:13


41:12 42:19 43:23,24
44:13,16

strike 68:12
structure 18:24 19:7

83:19

student 9:2 12:3,7 13:25


18:7 34:7,14 40:12 57:22
61:4,22

students 9:17 12:13


17:6,15 32:4 34:18 35:5
38:19 39:21 57:15 58:3
61:11 67:16,24

studies 17:4
study 9:14 17:12 39:12
stuff 48:22
subject 44:19
submissions 48:11
submitting 48:13
suburban 60:25

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

table 15:18
tag 42:21,25
takes 17:17 42:8
taking 15:13 25:23 39:24
54:12 55:15 68:10

talk 7:9 19:23 23:19 24:17


30:4 51:14 62:2,19 66:21
75:25 82:24 84:25 86:22
88:4

talked 11:17 26:18 27:14


34:13 47:15 49:2 50:14
54:15 60:5 62:4 63:12
64:20 67:25 70:13,14
76:14 77:13,16 78:13
81:23 83:18 84:15

talking 23:20 24:6 72:15

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

14
82:1 83:5

talks 60:16,17

Index: talks..Vincent

threatens 21:25

transitioning 76:6

unoccupied 28:17 29:25

three-quarter 34:21

transportation 9:2 18:2

unsafe 30:2

34:14 50:4,11,19 74:21,


22

Tammy 3:15 88:13,15

three-quarters 34:23

tap 65:10,23 67:10 68:16

three-week 64:23

transported 34:19

unused 70:1

task 66:12

three-year 6:23 34:17

treasurer 44:10

urban 61:6

treat 30:21

urgency 83:4

treatment 30:23

users 38:11,13 42:11

trench 24:7

utilities 33:24 34:1

TRF 20:10

utilize 45:13

trip 75:6 81:2

utilizing 18:17

tasks 38:24
tax 23:7 49:7 78:8
taxes 23:8 78:8
teacher 76:23
teachers 16:4 51:10,22
52:1 61:15 69:11,17,19
73:14 74:15

team 5:17 6:7,8 81:21


technology 39:10 41:11
43:3,19,20 44:2,3

tells 67:4,5,6 69:16


ten 11:6

36:4

thumb 52:24
tied 64:18
tight 31:2 35:24
tighten 50:11
tightly 37:12
time 7:18 8:9 9:13 17:13,
17 20:12 26:20 33:10
35:22 40:6,7 42:4,14
45:14 68:7 77:7 78:2
80:25

timeframe 25:25

unsustainable 82:7

troubles 13:18

true 9:24 14:8 47:6 66:9


trust 85:1

vacancy 28:20

turnaround 62:11,12

vacant 23:16 29:15

68:23

vacation 33:8 70:1

times 59:6

turned 7:4

tenure 65:7

tiny 32:18

turning 35:5

valuable 46:15

term 6:23 40:20,21 56:10

tired 58:21

type 9:16 24:19 25:2

values 29:13,16

title 42:24 43:1,7,15

types 55:9,14

variables 83:11

typical 10:7,10 50:25

venders 26:10

typically 23:13 39:15

vendor 22:13,14 24:19

87:10,14

terms 8:6 13:10 17:4,14


19:15 24:1 29:14 33:13
45:8,11 65:18 66:13
70:14 89:21

theft 28:17
therapy 49:21
thing 4:1 8:11 33:4 54:4
58:19 61:6 62:2 63:24
64:5 66:21 70:1 71:1
75:16 76:3 77:13 80:13
88:17

things 8:14 16:6,10,23


26:13 35:21 37:24 40:19
42:22 44:12,13 45:24
46:16 47:5 52:7 55:14
63:23 64:19 65:9 67:4
68:18 70:20 77:5 78:25
80:18 82:1 87:6

thinking 22:24 25:5 55:7


80:21,24 84:21 86:20

47:17

today 4:22 5:7 8:4 83:20,


24 86:3 90:4

told 23:20 26:8 47:19


78:4

topic 66:22
total 12:7,12,19 20:4,8,
13,15 48:4 84:12

totally 62:14
touch 76:2
tough 58:19 78:20

underlying 82:5,6

versus 9:4,5 45:14 50:1

understand 29:17 47:24

vet 83:14

56:17,19 57:10 86:2,13

understanding 14:5
37:18 81:14

viability 60:8,17
vicious 61:2

Township 65:15

unheard 79:17

Vincent 3:2,7 4:1,11,14,

track 35:9 45:23,24

union 53:21

75:10,12,19 77:11

tracking 35:17

training 9:16

51:18

23 25:17 26:3 55:24


73:23 74:20 75:2 77:12
78:2

view 80:9

thought 22:18 64:7

thousand 12:15 34:5

vendors 22:4 24:9,17,19,

unfinished 6:11

trade 9:16

thoughts 56:8

U.S. 6:16,22 7:2,3 69:2

25:2,8,10,11 28:6 77:7,10

town 12:1

thinks 45:19
75:11 76:16 79:6 88:18

52:21 53:12

valleys 45:8

trajectory 56:18
transfer 53:10 58:6
60:25

transferred 6:13

unique 75:25 76:1


Unit 3:3
units 17:10
universities 65:24 69:1
university 6:12 63:3
68:18,21

Unlike 63:18

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

16,18 5:15 6:15 10:3,7,


14,25 12:11 13:15 14:12,
17,24 15:8 16:15 18:19
19:17,23 20:24 23:5
24:16 25:1,7 26:16,22
27:12,24 28:19 29:11
31:4 32:21 35:25 36:3
39:11 40:15,24 41:10
43:6,14 44:5,25 46:1 49:1
50:24 51:9 52:5,24 53:4,
15 54:5,18 55:5,12 56:6,
21 60:7 62:21 64:6 66:9,
20 68:5 70:5,11,20 71:19
72:1,14,22 73:1 75:3 80:4

317.236.6022

Transcript of Hearing
October 22, 2015

15
81:4 83:18 84:3 85:5,10,
12 86:4,16,24 87:14,17,
23 88:13 89:16,22,25
90:3 91:1

Index: visit..zone

wiring 38:17 39:24


wishes 90:5
Woman 47:7

visit 82:19

wondering 53:23

vouchers 12:17

words 17:16 18:13


work 5:4,23 9:13,14 28:9

32:20 36:15 39:23 47:12,


13 57:23 73:15 83:1

wait 26:1

worked 6:4 90:10

walk 34:20,22,23 35:2

workers 33:7 53:22

walked 78:24
walking 35:3 75:7
wall 78:14
walls 46:16 75:21
wanted 7:22 66:21 67:19
78:22 81:12

79:22

working 8:10 26:19 27:3


31:18 33:2 38:25 39:5
47:22 52:13 53:7 71:2
78:11

works 32:9
worried 73:16

wanting 66:18

worst 57:4 75:11 86:18

war 7:7,13

worth 47:8

WARD 55:10 90:7,24

write 83:15 85:8

warehouse 46:18,20

written 85:23

warehouses 48:22

wrong 27:18

WASP 43:1
water 30:20,21 75:21
Watson 58:13
Wayne 6:11 68:20
ways 36:5 65:2 69:8
wean 17:17
website 67:22
Wednesday 83:23
weeks 33:7 45:10 69:25
75:7

welfare 23:10
Wert 57:14 75:21 76:1
West 32:3 57:11

Y
year 7:17 11:10,15 14:22
16:5 30:16 31:20 34:16,
18 35:7,10,16,20 39:19,
22,25 42:7 49:17 51:5
70:3 72:16 79:15,16
84:10

year's 90:15
years 6:14 11:6,8,14 14:5
15:24 16:7 27:5 30:23
36:9 40:7 41:15 45:17
53:1 58:11,12 67:3 71:22
72:2,4,5,9 76:8 80:13
87:15

yesterday 46:21

White 3:15 85:24 86:7


88:21 89:4,10,18

wide 29:4,7

Z
zone 34:20,22 35:2

wild 55:20
willingness 64:12
willy-nilly 59:4
window 29:9,10 69:17

Connor Reporting
www.connorreporting.com

317.236.6022

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