Pioneer SA-9100 Low Filter Switch Noise: Forums

11/19/2015
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Pioneer SA-9100 low filter switch noise

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Hello Folks, this is my first post on this forum, however I've been reading it for
some time and I am amazed of the knowledge and amount of information being
displayed here.
vman96
I've just acquired a Pioneer SA-9100 of eBay and absolutely love it. It sounds
amazingly warm and rich, but unfortunately it has a minor problem I am trying to
isolate:
Member
The low filter switch makes loud popping sound in the speakers when move it up
or down, to the point that I have to turn speakers to off position to operate it.
Also if I shift the switch to subsonic position, the right speaker makes a low
frequency faint popping/humming noise, sounds like an interference of some kind
or poor connection. It appears to be coming from the woofer only and noticeable
more when you stand in a front of the speaker. The noises are not being affected
by volume control and are there constantly. But when the switch is in the (30Hz)bottom or (off)-upper position, there isn't any noise in the speaker.
So far I have replaced Q1-Q2 transistors and R12-R13 resistors on power supply
circuit-B board which made those noises to be less pronounced but didn't
eliminate them completely.
Strangely, while replacing R13 resistor, I didn't have the proper one on hand and
temporarily replaced it with one of higher value (1.2k.ohm -2w metal film). At that
point the low filter switch became silent as well as the right speaker noise was
completely gone. Sonically the amplifier sounded the same if not better. However
when I put the proper resistor (390 ohm 1/2w metal film) back, all the noises
have returned. I wonder if it could be capacitors on that board?
I am not that good in diagnostics of electronic equipment but can handle soldering
and replacement of parts quite well.
Your advices and help are greatly appreciated!!!
vman96, May 10, 2014
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pioneer-sa-9100-low-filter-switch-noise.592703/
#1
1/13
11/19/2015
What were the voltages before and after? Is it both channels?

leaky caps are your problem, and probably the changed power supply voltages
changed operating points which reduced the DC voltage being blocked.
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
All those lovely sky blue sanyo solid aluminum (CSSA) caps that turn into
resistors.
Look at the parts lists in the manual, they are all over the unit.
0.1 uf to 1 uf are best replaced with panasonic ecq stacked film caps instead of
electrolytic caps.
The rest Nichicon UPW and UKL (for the cssa, csza and ceanl caps)
markthefixer, May 10, 2014
#2
Hello Mark and thank you for your information.

I haven't check the voltages yet. It happens with the right channel only. Sometimes
the interference almost disappears, sometimes it's more pronounced.
vman96
Also when power off the amp, it pops pretty loud. I believe it relates to caps as
well.
Member
Mark, did you mean to replace caps only on power supply board-B? At list as a first
step.
Where can I find a replacement parts list? There are a few of them floating around
on this site, but I don't know which is the correct one? I believe there are twelve
caps on that board.
Thank you!
Last edited: May 11, 2014
vman96, May 11, 2014
#3
The problem caps are scattered throughout the unit. Your imbalance at the power
supply (because of the wrong value part) coincidentally upset internal conditions in
the right direction that compensated for the capacitor's leakage, but you would
have found other faults caused by the power supply imbalance.
markthefixer
compare the lists
2/13
11/19/2015
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
post the list and links to the other parts lists. we'll check it/them out.
#4
Yes, I did realize that, and replace resistors with the right ones as soon as I could.
At the meantime I am putting together a list of caps and will start with the power
supply board. One step at the time.
It's a wonderful amplifier and it is worth time and effort.
vman96
Member

vman96, May 12, 2014
#5
I hope you know of this thread: "Pioneer Recap Lists" Sticky suggestion!
and this thread in it (go to post #9): Pioneer SA-9100 AMP Rebuild x2
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
this is a direct dump from my spreadsheet. ymmv...

doesn't mean you need everything in it, it contains repair parts too as were
needed...
EQUALIZER AMP ASSY x2
AWF-007-0 C1 2.2 25 Electrolytic CSSA 2R2M 25 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA 2.2
AWF-007-0 C4 47 25 Electrolytic CEA 470P 25 647-UPW1E470MDD 47
AWF-007-0 C7 3.3 50 Electrolytic CEA 3R3P 50 647-UPW1H3R3MDD 3.3
AWF-007-0 C9 22 6 Electrolytic CSSA 220M 6 647-UKL1H220MEDANA 22
AWF-007-0 C10 470 6 Electrolytic CEA 471P 6 647-UPW1E471MPD 470
AWF-007-0 Q1 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWF-007-0 Q2 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWF-007-0 Q3 2SC1313 512 KSC1845FTA
AWF-007-0 Q4 2SC1313 512 KSC1845FTA
AWF-007-0 Q5 2SA726 512 KSA992FBU
CONTROL AMP ASSY

AWG-018-A C1 1 25 Electrolytic CSSA 010M 25 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1
AWG-018-A C7 47 16 Electrolytic CEA 470P 16 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47
AWG-018-A C9 3.3 25 Electrolytic CSSA 3R3M 25 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA 3.3
AWG-018-A C10 3.3 25 Electrolytic CSSA 3R3M 25 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA 3.3
3/13
11/19/2015

AWG-018-A C13 4.7 25 Electrolytic CEA 4R7P 25 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7
AWG-018-A C14 4.7 25 Electrolytic CEA 4R7P 25 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7
AWG-018-A C17 10 25 Electrolytic CSZA 100M 25 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10
AWG-018-A C18 10 25 Electrolytic CSZA 100M 25 647-UKL1H100KDDANA 10
AWG-018-A C21 100 16 Electrolytic CEA 101P 16 647-UPW1H101MPD 100
AWG-018-A Q1 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWG-018-A Q2 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWG-018-A Q3 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWG-018-A Q4 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWG-018-A Q5 2SC1312 512 KSC1845FTA
AWG-018-A Q6 2SC1312 512 KSC1845FTA
AWG-018-A Q7 2SC1312 512 KSC1845FTA
AWG-018-A Q8 2SC1312 512 KSC1845FTA
AWG-018-A Q9 2SC1478 512 KSC1845FTA
AWG-018-A Q10 2SC1478 512 KSC1845FTA
FILTER AMP ASSY
AWK-021-0 C1 4.7 10 Electrolytic CSSA 4R7X 10 647-UKL1H4R7KDDANA 4.7
AWK-021-0 C5 47 10 Electrolytic CEA 470P 10 647-UPW1E470MDD 47
AWK-021-0 C6 47 10 Electrolytic CEA 470P 10 647-UPW1E470MDD 47
AWK-021-0 C11 22 10 Electrolytic CEA 220P 10 647-UPW1C220MDD 22
AWK-021-0 C12 22 10 Electrolytic CEA 220P 10 647-UPW1C220MDD 22
AWK-021-0 Q1` 2SC1345 512 KSC1845FTA
AWK-021-0 Q2 2SC1345 512 KSC1845FTA
AWK-021-0 Q3 2SC1345 512 KSC1845FTA
AWK-021-0 Q4 2SC1345 512 KSC1845FTA
POWER AMP ASSY

AWH-023-B C1 0.22 25 Electrolytic CSSA R22M 25-85C 598-DSF050J224 0.22
AWH-023-B C2 0.47 25 Electrolytic CSSA R47M 25-85C 598-DSF050J474 0.47
AWH-023-B C3 33 16 Electrolytic CEA 330P 16-85C 647-UPW1E330MDD 33
AWH-023-B C6 33 16 Electrolytic CEA 330P 16-85C 647-UPW1E330MDD 33
4/13
11/19/2015
AWH-023-B C12 470 6 Electrolytic CEA 471P 6-85C 647-UPW1E471MPD 470

AWH-023-B Q1 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWH-023-B Q2 2SA774 512 KSA992FBU
AWH-023-B Q3 2SC869 512-KSC1845FTA
AWH-023-B Q4 2SC869 512-KSC1845FTA
AWH-023-B Q5 2SA628 512 KSA992FBU
AWH-023-B Q6 2SC1451 512-KSC3503DSTU
AWH-023-B Q7 2SC1451 512-KSC3503DSTU
AWH-023-B Q8 2SD358 512-KSC2690AYS
AWH-023-B Q9 2SB528 512-KSA1220AYS
AWH-023-B Q10 2SC1079 863-MJ21194G
AWH-023-B Q11 2SA679 863-MJ21193G
AWH-023-B D1 1S2473 512-1n4148
AWH-023-B D2 1S2473 512-1n4148
AWH-023-B D3 1S2473 512-1n4148
AWH-023-B D4 STV-4A
AWH-023-B D5 1S2473 512-1n4148
AWH-023-B D6 1S2471 512-1n4148
AWH-023-B VR1 330 MT 652-3296P-1-501LF
AWH-023-B VR2 100 ST 652-3386H-1-101LF
AWH-023-B R23 mox 10 1w 660-MO1CT52R100J
PROTECTION CIRCUIT ASSY

AWM-025-A C3 330 6 Electrolytic CEA 331P 6 647-UPW1A331MPD 330
AWM-025-A C4 330 6 Electrolytic CEA 331P 6 647-UPW1A331MPD 330
AWM-025-A C5 4.7 25 Electrolytic CEA 4R7P 25 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7
AWM-025-A C6 100 16 Electrolytic CEA 101P 16 647-UPW1H101MPD 100
AWM-025-A Q1 2SC857K 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q2 2SC857K 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q3 2SC945 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q4 2SC945 512-KSC1845FTA
AWM-025-A Q5 2SA733 512-KSA992FBU
AWM-025-A Q6 2SC945 512-KSC2383YTA
AWM-025-A Q7 2SC1384 512-KSC2690AYS
POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT-A ASSY
AWR-031-0 C5 470 63 Electrolytic CEB 471P 63-85C 647-TVX1J471MCD 470
AWR-031-0 C6 470 63 Electrolytic CEB 471P 63-85C 647-TVX1J471MCD 470
AWR-031-0 D1 SR3AM-8
5/13
11/19/2015
AWR-031-0 D5 SIB01-02 512-1n4004

AWR-031-0 D6 SIB01-02 512-1n4004
AWR-031-0 D7 SIB01-02 512-1n4004
AWR-031-0 D8 SIB01-02 512-1n4004
POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT-B ASSY
AWR-032-0 C1 100 63 cea 100 63 647-UPW1J101MPD 100
AWR-032-0 C2 100 63 cea 100 63 647-UPW1J101MPD 100
AWR-032-0 C5 10 16 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 C6 10 35 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 C7 10 50 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 C8 10 50 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 C9 10 50 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 C20 10 50 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 C12 47 25 cea 47 25 647-UPW1E470MDD 47
AWR-032-0 C13 47 25 cea 47 25 647-UPW1E470MDD 47
AWR-032-0 C14 33 25 cea 33 25 647-UPW1V330MDD 33
AWR-032-0 C15 33 25 cea 33 25 647-UPW1V330MDD 33
AWR-032-0 C20 10 50 cea 10 50 647-UPM1H100MDD 10
AWR-032-0 q1 2sd313 pwr pass 512-KSC2073TU 512-KSC2073TU
AWR-032-0 q2 2sb507 pwr pass 512-ksa940 512-KSA940TU
AWR-032-0 q3 2sc945 f/b 512-ksc2383YBU 512-ksc2383YTA
AWR-032-0 q4 2sa720 f/b 512-ksa1013YBU 512-ksa1013YBU
AWR-032-0 q5 2sc1318 pass 512-ksc2383YBU 512-ksc2690AYS
AWR-032-0 q6 2sa720 pass 512-ksa1013YBU 512-ksa1220AYS
AWR-032-0 d1 wz-130 512-1n5243B 512-1n5243B
AWR-032-0 d2 wz-130 512-1n5243B 512-1n5243B
AWR-032-0 R12 390 1/2w 660-MOS1CT52R391J
AWR-032-0 R13 390 1/2w 660-MOS1CT52R391J
SWITCH B ASSY
AWS-039-0 C1 1 25 Electrolytic CSSA 010M 25 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1
AWS-039-0 C2 1 25 Electrolytic CSSA 010M 25 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1
AWS-039-0 C5 10 16 Electrolytic CEA 100P 16 647-UPW1V100MDD 10
AWS-039-0 C6 10 16 Electrolytic CEA 100P 16 647-UPW1V100MDD 10
AWS-039-0 Q1 2SC1313 512-KSC1845FTA
6/13
11/19/2015
AWS-039-0 Q2 2SC1313 512-KSC1845FTA
SWITCH C ASSY
AWS-040-0 C9 0.47 10 Electrolytic CSSA R47M 10 598-DSF050J474 0.47
POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT-B ASSY
Power Supply C1 2.2 25 Electrolytic ? 647-UPW1H2R2MDD 2.2
Power Supply C4 47 25 Electrolytic ? 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47
Power Supply C7 3.3 50 Electrolytic ? 647-UPW1H3R3MDD 3.3
Power Supply C9 22 6 Electrolytic ? 647-UPW1H220MDD 22
Power Supply C10 470 6 Electrolytic ? 647-UPW1E471MPD 470
Power Supply C71 15000 50 Electrolytic ACH-020-0 Need to order
Power Supply C72 15000 50 Electrolytic ACH-020-0 Need to order
R12 390 1W Carbon 281-390-RC

R13 390 1W Carbon 281-390-RC
1N4004 Diode 512-1n4004
Protect Relay Replacement Relay 653-MY4-DC24
#6
Mark, thank you very much for the updated list of parts! It will keep me busy for a
while...
A lot of valuable information here!
vman96
Member
I'll start with caps on power supply circuit-B board, and from there gradually move
forward if it will be necessary.
I'd like to preserve the original components as much as possible, as long as they
perform close to factory specs.
vman96, May 13, 2014
#7
7/13
11/19/2015
Caps have "little clocks" (chemical!! called entropy or the passage of time, they
ADD "anti-corrosives" to the electrolyte in them!!) ticking away in them, and there
is no reason to keep caps in the circuit until they degrade so badly that the circuit
is negatively affected.
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
Power supply and protection refurb may not affect the sound (much) but it does
affect the overall longevity and perforance.
Doing the audio caps is where the biggest (and not easily quantified) AURAL gains
will be realized. Haven't found an instrument yet that characterizes "soundstage"
and "clarity" other than the ear / brain / training of the listener.
Original parts aren't what they're cracked up to be. Plus the factories have gotten
BETTER at making them in the intervening time. No less compensating for old
less than stellar design choices (hot stressed transistors, they just plain don't last
as long, cooked boards, ) that were apparently driven by bean counters.
#8
Thanks for your input Mark!
vman96
vman96, May 13, 2014
#9
Member
Well, I have replaced all caps on power supply-B board. Some were badly
overheated and leaky, some looked OK. The unit sounds about the same, perhaps
a bit cleaner, but the pooping noise from the low filter and power switches still
there.
vman96
Member
Should I replace the rest of caps in the entire amp or look at the SC-1451
transistors?
The amplifier sounds very nice and both channels well balanced.
Mark, I am still trying to understand why increased value of the resistor R13 on
circuit board -B makes all the noises to disappear. Does it mean there are still
issues on that board, or elsewhere?
8/13
11/19/2015
New style caps of the same value physically much smaller than the vintage ones, I
suppose they will perform just as good ??
vman96, May 17, 2014
#10
vman96 said:
.
Mark, I am still trying to understand why increased value of the resistor R13 on circuit board -B
makes all the noises to disappear. Does it mean there are still issues on that board, or
elsewhere? elsewhere, it is an unusual accident.
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
New style caps of the same value physically much smaller than the vintage ones, I suppose
they will perform just as good ??
newer caps do turn out to be both better and smaller.
some voltage measurements of the power supply board would be appropriate to

check the work, I should have had you do this before starting work.
something else I overlooked: WHY were you replacing R13 ?
usually (there are some exceptions) resistors don't need replacing.
R13 affects the -24v and -16v power supplies, increasing the resistance badly
strangled them. They are supposed to get hot, it keeps the heat from having to be
dissipated in the power regulator transistors Q6 and Q8. R21 does the same thing
for Q8 as well.
copy the stuff below and add your measurements onto the end or each
appropriate line.
power supply board
AWR-032
pin 2 (-16vdc)
pin 3 (-24vdc)
pin 4 (-13vdc)
pin 5 (-42vdc)
pin 8 (+42vdc)
pin 9 (+35vdc)
pin 10 (+24vdc)
pin 11 (+16vdc)
#11
9/13
11/19/2015
While replacing SB-507 and SD-313 which was particularly bad, R-12 and R-13
looked badly overheated. I'd removed them to ck resistance. R-13 measured 460
ohm.
Entire board looked overheated, caps near the Q1 heat sink looked discolored.
It was a terrible interference/high frequency noise, especially when tapping on Q1.
Replacement of those components had fixed this problem.
vman96
Member
Here are voltages on AWR-032 board:
pin 2 (-16vdc) - (-24.72)

pin 3 (-24vdc)- (-37.7)
pin 4 (-13vdc)- (-13.26)
pin 5 (-42vdc)- (-58.1)
pin 8 (+42vdc)- (+44.3)
pin 9 (+35vdc)- (+36.7)
pin 10 (+24vdc)- (+25.30)
pin 11 (+16vdc)- (+16.26)
______
vman96, May 18, 2014
#12
pin 5 is too high, so pins 2 and 3 follow along.

pin 4 (-13vdc)- (-13.26) is fine, so we can't blame it on that, but it DOES NOT
control the negative regulator, the negative regulator is set up as a mirror of the
positive voltage on pin 8, R9(22k), R10(910), R11(22k) do that .
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
R12 and R13 are INTENDED to get hot, they handle heat far better than the pass
transistors Q5 and Q6, and absorb a fair portion of the energy dissipated.
q2 q4 are suspect, q6 and q8 are probably behaving.
post the emitter base and collector voltages of q2 and q4 to shed some light on the
failure. also post which parts were replaced, and with what.
#13
Parts were replaced:

Q1-512-KSC2073TU
10/13
11/19/2015
Q2-512-KSC2073TU
R12/R13-CPF1392R00FKEE6 Vishay metal film 392 ohm -1w-1%
All capacitors on AWR-032 board as you've posted above.
vman96
Member
vman96, May 19, 2014
#14
q1 is a 2sd313, thus 512-KSC2073TU is fine

BUT
q2 is a 2sb507 the OPPOSITE polarity of a ksc2073
use a 512-KSA940TU
I really hope that q2 thing was just a typo...
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
AWR-032-0 q1 2sd313 pwr pass 512-KSC2073TU 512-KSC2073TU

AWR-032-0 q2 2sb507 pwr pass 512-ksa940 512-KSA940TU
AWR-032-0 q3 2sc945 f/b 512-ksc2383YBU 512-ksc2383YTA
AWR-032-0 q4 2sa720 f/b 512-ksa1013YBU 512-ksa1013YBU
#15
My apology, it was a typo:

Q2 - 512-KSA940TU
I will replace Q4-Q6-Q8 and then report....
vman96
Member
vman96, May 19, 2014
#16
I've mentioned earlier about that faint (like a bad connection) noise in the right
speaker, which is intermittent. Now the left one has developed it as well
It happens only when the low filter switch in "subsonic" position. In "Off" and
"30Hz" positions amplifier is nice and quiet.
11/13
11/19/2015
vman96
Member
I've been wondering if it's a separate issue and attributes to a different source, like
AWK-021
At the mean time I've ordered transistors for AWK-032 board, hopefully it'll bring
voltages to the proper specs.
vman96, May 19, 2014
#17
try recleaning the switch, usually signals sneak across wires when impedances
rise due to contact resistance.
#18
markthefixer
ESCAPED:armed &
dangerous
Subscriber
Hello Mark,
Well, Q4,Q6,Q8 finally got replaced. That brought voltages to a normal range,
however slightly elevated.
What is your opinion on it:
vman96
Member
AWR-032
pin 2 (-16vdc) -17.20
pin 3 (-24vdc) -26.34
pin 4 (-13vdc) -13.17
pin 5 (-42vdc) -44.60
pin 8 (+42vdc) +44.40
pin 9 (+35vdc) +36.80
pin 10 (+24vdc) +25.69
pin 11 (+16vdc) +16.63
Success! No more rumbling in the right speaker, No more popping sound in low
filter switch or other controls. There were a few very light "ticks" in the function
switch and tape selector switch, but after about 20 minutes of operation everything
became silent
Should I replace Q3,Q5,Q7, respectively, since I've got them as well?
12/13
11/19/2015
Final touch
...
vman96, May 24, 2014
#19
Replaced the rest - Q3,Q5,Q7 transistors. Voltages went up slightly again.

Now when turn on the unit, low filter switch pops (not loud) for about 3 min. when
operated, and then fades away and stays quiet until I turn off the amp and then turn
it back on. Then it repeats the sequence over again. Switch has been cleaned
several times.
vman96
Member
pin 2 (-16vdc) -17.24

pin 3 (-24vdc) -26.41
pin 4 (-13vdc) -13.16
pin 5 (-42vdc) -44.80
pin 8 (+42vdc) +44.60
pin 9 (+35vdc) +37.0
pin 10 (+24vdc) +26.18
pin 11 (+16vdc) +17.13
vman96, May 25, 2014
#20
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Pioneer SA-9100 low filter switch noise

What were the voltages before and after? Is it both channels?

Hello Mark and thank you for your information.

compare the lists

Last edited: May 12, 2014

this is a direct dump from my spreadsheet. ymmv...

CONTROL AMP ASSY

AWG-018-A C11 47 16 Electrolytic CEA 470P 16 647-UPW1V470MED1TD 47

POWER AMP ASSY

AWH-023-B C12 470 6 Electrolytic CEA 471P 6-85C 647-UPW1E471MPD 470

PROTECTION CIRCUIT ASSY

AWR-031-0 D5 SIB01-02 512-1n4004

AWS-039-0 Q2 2SC1313 512-KSC1845FTA

R12 390 1W Carbon 281-390-RC

Thanks for your input Mark!

Last edited: May 13, 2014

vman96, May 13, 2014

some voltage measurements of the power supply board would be appropriate to

Here are voltages on AWR-032 board:

pin 2 (-16vdc) - (-24.72)

pin 5 is too high, so pins 2 and 3 follow along.

Parts were replaced:

vman96, May 19, 2014

q1 is a 2sd313, thus 512-KSC2073TU is fine

AWR-032-0 q1 2sd313 pwr pass 512-KSC2073TU 512-KSC2073TU

My apology, it was a typo:

vman96, May 19, 2014

markthefixer, May 19, 2014

vman96, May 24, 2014

Replaced the rest - Q3,Q5,Q7 transistors. Voltages went up slightly again.

pin 2 (-16vdc) -17.24

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