Interior Retreat Discussion Part 1

Samira Rathod: So Id like to, first of all, thank you very much, for taking this time out. Im sure that
youve spent enough time thinking about what you are presenting today and that itself is also great for all
of us. To begin with, I think I need to talk a little about the retreat, why the retreat, and how we got down
to doing these conversations. So, for a long time, I think, myself, Aniket, Smruti and the architects in
Ahmedabad, every time I would be there for a project, we would end up in the evening at the drinking
hole, which was a small house I have, open the bar and start talking and then it would run into late hours.
We realized that all the conversations were always about issues relating to architecture and it used to be
fun and also very, sort of very intense and then at some point I think, both, Aniket and myself, we decided
that maybe we should, you know, do this on a more serious platform and Im sure it would help the
profession in many ways. So, the first retreat happened and that was the architects retreat and most of
you know all about it. We put up a film too and it happened in the same room and in February, about a
year back, two years back I think, and after that, we documented the entire conversation, with four-five
cameras in the room. It was filmed and then made into a film and made into a book and I think the
important thing is the feedback that we got is that everybody who has got the book has really enjoyed it,
has enjoyed the endeavour and we hope that this comes more, something like a documentation or ideas
that were shared at a time when discussions needed to happen. We needed to think very clearly about
where we are headed and this can help young designers, students, professionals, practices to immerge,
find their own ways of thinking and refer to this time and again. It is not something that you read and put
aside. So thats, thats where we are and then when got that kind of response and feedback from the first
one, Aniket pushed up saying lets do the landscape retreat and he pushed me to the interior designers
retreat. So, here we are at the interior designers retreat.
So, one of the things that one wanted to even talk about the interior designers retreat is mainly
why the interior designers retreat? So, I think, more importantly and like at breakfast, Aniket just pointed
out that he read an ad in the paper yesterday talking about the DLF, coming up with a real estate project,
which has, actually says, that the project is going to involve a very renowned firm in London as interior
designers. Sorry! Richmond? I dont know them but still, and, and that was supposed to be the statement
to get, you know, the sales happening. So obviously, there has now been a big shift in how people, are
now perceiving the idea of interior design and interior designers and there are conversations needed when
theres a kind of change in perceptions or professions begin to happen and so we need to align ourselves,
think, all of us have issues. We are all struggling and the best way to do it is begin by talking, sharing
ideas, and see where this goes. So, what is the role of the interior designer are we? A lot of us are
struggling between being a stylist or just a designer. What, what is the role of technology and this whole
sense of internet, the new bloodline come in and thrown a lot of perspectives out of place and we are
faced with a lot of you know, can we do this? Can we not do this? Issues! How do we deal with clients?
How do we look at the idea of specialization? How specialized are we in our own skills? And how do we
offer that? And lots and lots of issues! What do you teach? Academics! So on and so forth. And so all of
us have gathered here to probably discuss and share our ideas on each of these subjects. So, all of you
know what we talking about. Our profession is kind of, laid down.
So, here we are, and let me start with introductions here. So, Suparna Bhalla, you all know
principal and a _______ (04:42). More importantly, of course, she runs a fantastic practice, large real

estate projects, green atriums; sustainable work and you know this, not enough to say. But more
importantly, for me, shes been a very very avid supporter of all our conferences and investigations in the
subject of architecture especially wherever a difference can be made. And also, a great proponent of using
craft in the mainstream. So she has, sort of, supported ____ (05:19), his work and done exhibitions across
the world. Paris, Egypt, Bombay, Delhi and some of you have seen it. So, thats Suparna.
Sandeep, everybody knows Sandeep. Extremely versatile senior practice, has done all kinds of
projects and you can be sure that, you can, sort of, close your eyes and youll get a refined, elegantly
designed project and no complaints from the clients. Im sure!
Sholan, represents to my mind, the young designer! She is, in a very short time, won several
awards, been visible, the kind of work she does. But more importantly, the idea of experiment is kind of,
true to their _____ (06:07) of work.
Ruturaj is associated with the IAV(06:13) and to my mind, one of the key starters of the 361. I
can be wrong on that, but we remember the 361 conference, he really put together, well put together and
for the first time brought questions that were relevant and actually mattered. Ruturaj had been the editor
at IIB. Now, runs his own practice in Goa. Hes still associated with the Charles Correa Foundation and is
now gonna start up this whole idea of new competitions, where he is looking at re-defining the way, the
processes are run in the competitions.
Supriyo, has always been a great writer, a critic for a lot of our works and the one thing that
impressed me about Supriyo is, sort of, profile was the fact that he is doing this whole idea of
collaborative practice and believes that the practice really needs to be a collaborative version of getting
people together and seeing different professionals and work on the same project. He has worked with
Jude, Jude Dsouza on the CIDCO exhibition centered at Navi Mumbai.
____(07:35), I have been trying to remember the name of that institute in Germany, for which
youre ______(07:41). So, it is _______(07:44), the Artists Residency at Strauss Solitude. Am I right?
So, Kaiwan, of course, I know him from Kamla Raheja. Hes always been teaching. Hes always been in
the forefront with ideas and propositions and taking stands on how education and academics must
function. Hes also been directing and set up this theory course at _______(08:11), for Architecture
Criticisms & Theory and like I said just now that he has been charring with the jury and the Board that
runs the whole Artists Residency at the Strauss Institute.
Next to him, of course, the Editor of DOMUS, we all know. Sorry! Next to him is Meghna. Shes
the youngest, the baby on the group. Right? Shes also trained as an architect and now is a sub-Editor at
IMB(08:43). And of course, very keen and interested on how things are changing, shifting, very eager
with new ideas on this kind of discussions.
Shrainy(08:55), at the other head over here! Shrainy, also, we go back long. Just, I think the first
discussion must have happened when she was working for Design Today and weve had a lot of late night
SMS conversations about architecture, design, about where is the world heading today blah. .blah
blahlot of introspective questions. But, more importantly, shes heading now at The Indian Express and
she still has a lot of questions about design and all and is always pushing at the forefront saying, lets
write, lets do things differently.

Zameer, again, represents the idea of the young, new interior designer in India and is extremely
popular. Everybody has been to all his fantastic restaurants, fun places. But, I think, he works a lot with
the idea of the temporal, the idea of installations and to his credit, is the Bandra project, which is really,
really commendable where weve actually taken, correct me if Im wrongtheyve actually taken the
whole Bandra precinct, made beautiful drawings of what they see is interesting, but gone out and helped
little guys on the road and set up their little, what can we say, the laaris, that little you know cartsand
actually created these definitive spaces in Bandra.(you should..i think were designing that right) So, I
think its a wonderful idea.
Theres Aneesh Bajaj, the famous Aneesh Bajaj, of course, the Editor, Home Review. Hes out
_____(10:36). So, wait for what he has to say. The guy, next to him, I dont know, but I do know what to
say about him! Hes been one of my biggest critic and slammers..constantand so I think the whole kind
of force behind this Retreatgreat supporter at SPADE. Weve done projects togetherWeve fought
togetherWeve come back togetherSo, great support.
Shrikkantji, here, is one of the foremost(ShrikkantI dont think you should take objection to
that..its sort of respect)so, yeah, hes a furniture designer and has done fantastic work in furniture design
and important to this conversation as I think, the idea of furniture is related to the idea of interior
design..in factmore so to be related to idea of interior designtheres a huge overlap and we need
know what he has to say!!
UmmmTushar DesaiTushar, again, an old buddy, friend been great in terms of, being a
part of the IIDstried extremely hard to fit in there, and when he was there, there was a huge difference
in the way competitions were being conductedand he seemed like a tough, sort of force therepeople
had to fight against. And hes going to share all this with us todayhis views.
Bijoy, I see as a slow and steady, strong, focused practice that is going to emerge. Hes been
doing smaller projects now to master planning, interior design. Hes just finished work with GS and hes
someone who is extremely meticulous and looks at the ______ very closely.
Shimul, yes, of course, a very very formidable practice, I think and leading today...and in my
mind, at the forefront of in terms of women and architectureI know we all hate that analogyall the
same, she draws her inspiration from historical wisdom and tries to create buildings that are extremely
relevant contextually, related to the environment and of course, we all know about your work and so shall
we begin. (Is all being recorded? Coz its all being tilting)
So, we begin with the first session: Gathering Thoughts and so Shimul.
Shimul Jhaveri: Okay, so, firstly, this is really a huge applaud for both Samira and Aniket. Im
absolutely overwhelmed by how well you guys run thisthe dedication and the seriousness with which
you take this and I just wondered whyits just a bit of reflection on why the last few weeksa lot of
____ from both of you has helped me understand whyand Im doing something today, actually, which I
havent dont beforeIm taking you guys very very seriously and showing a lot of work that Ive never
showna lot of mistakes that I would never have, kind of, published or discussed. So, its really about
being in closed doors. Im showing more of the work that I feel that had problems, of course, the later
works that had not been so problematic. Honestly, I havent had the time to reflect on the later work. So,

its kind of a journeywhat Im showing today is a journeya progressionand bringing up some of the
issues that I consistently felt I faced as I was going through this journeyreflecting on itI realized that
its twenty five years of my journey today. So, probably a good time to do this.
So, this quick little chart is really where it is at for me..which is in a way.. all these three
contribute to any project which we are doingwhether it is architecture, interior design or interior
decoration and a good project, really, meets at that centrethat little triangleat that centrewhen you
achieve that perfect balance is when I think, one feels very satisfied with the project. Several projects fall
in the in-between lines and I think what has been hardest for me has been the fact that I was trained
completely in the red and then got out into the big, bad world and in Mumbai, particularly, I was expected
to function in the blue and the yellow initially because very little architecture comes in your way in the
initial days and I had gone and studied urban planning in the U.S which was mainly I was studying,
Masters in Economics, Race, Caste & Gender and such like and got back to India and realized that, you
know, if I want to make that living that I must, I am not going to make it with race, caste, or gender or
economics.
And I loved design anyways, so, I was happy to design whatever came my way and the very first
project that came my way was this office at Nariman Point, which, this gentleman was willing to give me
only because I was a U.S return persondint matter what I done in the U.S, he was transiting from an
open office plan to a closed office plan which for any architect is wonderful. (Sothe plan? Oops
sorry..okay..thats strangeI hope that hasnt happened to all the plansthere is a plan in here..none of
these will makeokayso the other plans are thereummm..ksorry about that..it was there) so,
actually, the joy of a closed office plan is that you very much get to be an architect. You can use the whole
idea of layering, hierarchy and I found that in the planning of this project, all my skills worked and we
managed to produce a very coherent planwhich actually then get us the job. (same thingoh that..sorry
about that) so, its a hierarchical plan with the kind of street in the centre creating the public space, a
second layer creating the semi-public which is where the secretarial and the clerical staff sat and in the
entire kind of ring outside was the executives and the conference room. This is the..the core..the centre
that youre seeing through a secretarial space. Now, I think where, when I look back at this project, where
I think I completely fell flat on my face again and again, was, I was very nervous about the interior aspect
about this project. I really dint know..how to makehow to choose finisheshow to..every space ended
up being a little different from the rest. I did what a lot of us do in todays interior practiceswell
which is a plethora of kind of cut and pastelets try this finish, lets try that as well. So youll see that in
the next few slides, thats the central spacethe public space which I think is pretty calm. Then came the
reception which to me completely, which I still can realize I did thisbut I did this right at the beginning
of my practice. But, I think it was purely kind of trying to find space to please the client, to ensure that I
did value to a project that wasnt too minimalist. (and the next slide) Something that just does not work
with central space you saw, which is really many finishesfinishesit is a big oneyou knowin
working out interiorsand this was the big conference room. Dont miss the little bit of brass on the edge
of the table. So there was no ______(20:17) space to space to space. It was reallya maybe I can try this
and then do this and do thatyeah..so that was my very first project.(there is a lot going wrong in this
presentation).
But anyway, this is Justice Ajeejas (20:33) legal office. Justice Ajeeja is now very popular in
giving legality to gay relationships. He was then a lawyer, a simple lawyer and had got himself a little

office in Nariman Point, very small, 500 sq.ft and I had done this right after a _____ (20:54)and I think
(well go to the next slide) because of the scale and because of this very conductive office, somehow this
office worked. (The next space). Theres an intergrity here and it was purely a connectedness from space
to space to space. There was this central idea that went through this entire project and it seemed to find
coherence. (The next slide..can I change the slides myselfyeah). And then came, what I consider utter
disasterand that isthis..you know that time I was more open to do residential interiors..maybe youll
see why I stopped but it was Charles Correa building, Sonmarg(21:46) and I thought it would be very
interesting and I soon realized that its veryyou know..sometimes working in these modern buildings
can be very inflexible particularly for an architect. So we did a little bit of working around some of the
beams and columns and creating new spaces and this was one of the childrens bedroomsjust using
every material in the book. (oops, so it wasnt thiseverything is kind of turned). So, they wanted a very
Indian house which is what they approached me with and I think I was completely lost. This was really
about decoration and yeahthis is kind of what we didwhen we look back at it. It is very unlike what
we do now.
I was in love with this certain Indian elements and they came in full force. And this was really the
beginning of my interest in..I mean my being able to somehow attract great roofs. As my practices moved
as an interior designer particularly, I find roofs have been a very good part of this practice and we got this
space, of course, the roof isnt visible. It is the false ceiling. And it was a lovely old wooden roof and we
still have to create within it a mundane project like a business centre which meant that you create insular
offices in this. I think you can see here the beginnings, of kind of working with that, creating a glass
ceiling. Each office space has a glass ceiling. It looks up at the roof. But utter confusion on some of the
vocabularyusing a very art deco kind of vocabulary and here we go where..I think the first project
where I felt like we really did and managed to merge the three circles architecture, interior design and
decoration and the reason I felt that it worked in this project was mostly, you know, we had to build a
brand new roof with skylights, with trusses, etc, even though the warehouse, the building, the walls were
the same, I think there was very strong attitude, a very strong brief that the client gave me which was very
much about, a office that was insulareach space, each function was insular. But there had to be
continuity. So, continuity played a big role here where joints and junctions, the industrial context of being
in Kala Chowki. So, the brief I felt really dominated, created a vocabulary, created a centre that tinkled to
me is about a meaning.when you find that meaningwhen you are able to come in terms with what is
the central purpose of this project and translate it into a vocabulary, all those three circles tend to come
together. And I felt that in this project that bits of architecture, interior design and dcor started to work in
a project like this. And in every detail, every junction had then had to adhere to that to the idea which is
why everything is done in mild steel detailing.
And then came what was perhaps mineit wasnt really my first architectural project, it was my
second. My first project was a rice mill at Wada(25:59). But this one, which was a Ayurveda centre was
very narrow plot in Kandivali and we built the building and designed the interiors and it was a very clear
mandate which they wanted to reflect Ayurveda in this building and it was very very difficult to work
with FSI and all the constraints of FSI and we designed a very inside-out building using balconies, using a
lot of old wood and somehow I was very comfortable with the idea of dcorwhere we have used old
elements old columns, old jharonkahs, old doorswe have created a building that Im still comfortable
with and I enjoy every level in terms of architecture, interior design and the finishes the dcor.

The project after this Im showing just a few projects I selected because they stand out for me in
this whole discussion between interior design and architecture. This is a house which I think Sandeep has
seen, _____ and Sandeep, in Bangalore and there is, you know the clients have enjoyed it and it has been
a very successful house in many ways. There was a client who came to me a bit later, six months after this
project was built and he said something very interesting to me. He said I love that house but you know I
would have loved it more, a bit dumped down. I asked him what he meant by dumped down. He said do
without all those blue balls and colourful tapestry. Just kind of letting the architecture flow! The interiors
of this house were really overpowering. And I really thought about that and I agreed with wonderful
analysis where I completely agree that it could have dumped down.
The reason Im showing one of these projects is that we really found the groove of interior on
retail. I still feel that retail is a wonderful form of interior design and I think the reason that one finds it
quite so exciting is that because its about brand identity and all retailers come to the architect already
having worked out an idea of what their brand stands for or you can have workshops, work with them and
they love creating that identitynot every client is able to articulate an identity as well as a retailer does.
So FabIndia really was about creating an identity and you know in this case we had a very old structure
right here at Kala Ghoda and knowing what a mess FabIndia is at all times, it was very difficult to wade
through too much product at any given time. What we decided was to create this centre of calm, we
created this street which is the centre of calm with whole window-shopping experience right here and a
very very playful street so that it had all kinds of elements so that you could display some of the FabIndia
products, you know, in the hope that you single out some products and entice a client to buy some of that.
So, it was very interesting to do that. This, kind of followed to several kind of retail projects where
interior design really worked for us.
We were creating a brand identity for Aura, looking at the idea of a diamond in, that immerges
out from the darkness from coal, and created this very black storyand the reason, Im putting this
project is again...this isI found that whenever I started with architecture, I was able to taketo handle
interior design & dcor rather much better. This, to me was a project where the client really rammed our
ideas. I generally do, we generally do bungalows with mandate that we may not be necessarily be
interested in doing the furniture, the fabrics, its not necessarily our forte and we tend to have clients who
really kind of sync with us, only then we do a bungalow. And this particular client was absolutely
amazing. She was happy to this we did, the rest of it. Thats a bedroom, which would have been the best
slide to show but she did the interiors herself. So, she did the furniture, the blinds, the fabrics and did it
with such sensitivity with constantly saying that the architecture should rule the supreme and this one we
designed but the furniture in the bedroom she put together really did a fantastic job and ____ (31:41) all
three for me came together particularly because the client gave us a fantastic brief, the client was
completely in sync with us.a lot of the dcor was again completely from the client. It was really like an
amazing synergy of everything possible.
This project to me (while she is trying to find that plan), Im showing the Tirupati project. To me,
one of the most difficult interior design project is hospitality and those who here who have already done
hospitality projects, tons of them but when you do an entire hotel, I find it so difficult because every
single surface has to be, has to have a finish. If it doesnt, it gets ruined overtime. Pappu and Smita and all
the little bacchas, their fathers and mothers and all they come there and use that space as if they own it the
day that they paid for it are likely to come and scratch the walls and tear the fabrics. So, you got to find a

very, very hardy set of fabrics, everything. I mean, the client will ask you why even that wall hasnt got
finished otherwise it will get ruined. The other major challenge of hospitality is the multi headed hydra
that the client isin a hotel particularly, because you have the owner who has his _____(33:31) or her
_____ and then you have the operator who has their set of norms and _____ and you got to match all this
and make it work. And I think with this Tirupati project, knowing that we had so many inputs and we had
to cater to so much, I think what we were very keen to do is to create that meaning right at the centre and
luckily we were able to convince these clients who had actually come to us looking for a ______(34:06)
model on hotels all over India and we were able to convince them that listen, each city has a very
different attitude to religion. Each city, they were looking for religious tourism, each city has different
materials, different climates, and at Tirupati really we played with the idea of the Hindu temple and the
worship of Vishnu and we have done three such projects, one in Rishikesh, one in Bodh Gaya and we
decided that the idea of divinity would be at the centre of this project and weve created and entire theme
around Lord Vishnu and his ten avatars. And in the interiors were done on the basis of those ten avatars
and the architecture was very orthogonal and based on the Hindu temple particularly the temple of Balaji
and this has some overlays on it _______(35:15), to me its very important as each space is dedicated to
one of the avatars, this being Rama, that being Krishna, etc. So, that was the Tirupati Hotel where even
the room had motifs. We used a lot of geometrical motifs. We used a lot of craft from the area. All this
comes from _____(36:04), from sarees, from various elements Krishna had used, the flutes, the holy
colours, the pots, all of that can be right at the centre and I think this really helped us counter the lot of
criticisms that happen with multi level hydra.
And the last project which Im showing is a very simple one with architecture & interiors, the
reason again the fact that there was a very strong brand, a very strong idea with which we could design
this project. Im not able to get enough perspectives in these last two three projects. I can critic them
adequately. The older projects had twenty years of perspective and this was really about creating a very
very neutral interior design where really the car is the protagonist and not the architecture or the interiors
and yet the architecture and the interiors had to speak of design and highly inspire the set of designers. So,
creating that kind of dialecting between neutrality and sophisticated design was where we had to play in
this project. Yep. Thats it. Thank you very much. Any thoughts or questions?
Samira Rathod: I think well go with Sandeep and then open it up for discussions. What well do is as
the sessions are slotted, well have the speakers of the session do their presentations and then open it to
the house for discussions twenty minutes half and hr and basically, I have kind of loosely timed it, but
it is obviously allowed to overlap/spillover and take it as it goes. Some of you who have already been at
the last Retreat know that, it all depends on the _____(38:33) of the discussions but thats the way its
gonna run. So well go with Sandeeps presentation and then open it up to discussion.
Sandeep Khosla: Thank you Samira, Aniket for inviting me. Im sure its going to be a very stimulating
day. I havent done one of these before but I just want to share a little bit of my experiences
______(39:22).
I have been feeling for a number of years that in the interior design space, the area of residential
interiors have got somewhat undermined and marginalized. Architects seem to find impatience in dealing
with the whims of the individual members of the family. Interior design is usually approached things from
the world of surface application rather than looking at the _____(39:49) or experiential qualities of the
interior space and the majority who claim this space are housewives who are into the profession with no

formal experience. For those of you, who have been sitting in design juries, youll agree that we see that
the largest pool of entries are in the residential category and sadly some of the poorest work. Is this a
reflection of the current state of the profession?
The interior designs challenge today is to transcend the seductive barrage of imagery on the
internet and media that can so easily lead to a cookie-cut approach and to create a meaningful and
thoughtful response to a client brief rather than get an evocative programme brief from a hotel operator or
a corporate client that defines the look and feel of a space or its brand identity as Shimuls talking about.
What we get from residential clients is usually a one to two page generic wish list which looks like this.
Seventy percent of the list we get are a bland and standardized programmed that often only articulate the
practical requirements of the family. The big challenge is to extract something meaningful from this
limited input. Ill be honest boredom or fatigue does set in after looking at generic wish lists on similar
sides with similar context and of course there is a risk of repeating oneself, the risk of a certain sameness
in approach.
Recently, two of our houses with similar programmes produced very similar outcomes. We cant
shake this stagnation with just another visit to the Milan furniture fair or by getting a new set of furniture
and lighting catalogues. I feel that our approach must change. This is all the more challenging as our
clients want us to repeat ourselves as they find our work aspirational. They have access to a whole of
design blogs. They are well travelled. They recognize a look that is specked as fashionable. In a twenty
year career, I have only found a handful of clients who have been able to articulate a clear vision of what
they would like their homes to be, have provided an insight into their own personalities, wish lists that
have been descripted. This is a starting point where we as designers begin to interact more meaningfully
with our clients and get an insight into their own personalities.
I want to now show five conversations on homes that have formed unique interior design
narratives, narratives that allow these spaces to evolve over the years rather than remain static. I would
like a contemporary home with an Indian soul to feel connected with my Indian roots and with Bangalore
in particular, where I grew up and empathy in the use of local Indian materials, lots of light and natural
ventilation, open spaces that take advantage of the citys lovely weather, spaces that keep cool during the
summer and are well protected in the monsoons. The interiors could be an eclectic blend of colonial
Indian and contemporary pieces and saturated Indian colours.
Annabelles identity and connection to her Bangalore roots was important as was her wish for an
open and tropical design that would contrast with her lifestyle in a box-like flat in London. Hence, a
design with verandahs and courtyards became the most used spaces in the house are use of a vernacular
aesthetic with the roofs local Satharali stone as well as large walls of Jaisalmer kota and sandstone and
our choice in blending distinctive Indian pieces with contemporary furniture. We thus establish the mood,
share a common vision with our clients which has not changed in thirty years.
We would like the house to be vaastu compliant so that placement of each room is in accordance
with the principles of the vaastu mandala which is the ancient science of orientation & placement. So, the
placement became crucial. Placement of the staircase, the cupboards, the beds, bathroom fixtures, kitchen
appliances should also be in accordance with correct energy flows. In all the other aspects of design, we
would like to give you complete freedom. Our client Jayaraj was very well read in vaastu and interpreting
his strict beliefs turned into a design opportunity for us rather than a constraint. We looked at extracting

the essence of this ancient science while still arriving an visually appealing piece of contemporary design.
Our clients relate to their homes, feel that they belong there not only for the aesthetic appeal of the things
that surround them but also because of the belief that they are placed correctly.
This is my own house. I value my privacy. So would like my house to be shielded from the street
but open on the inside. I love the idea of courtyard at the centre with all the spaces connected to it. I want
my house to be a vessel for a changing narrative, a reflection of who we are as people, of our interests,
things collected over many years from our travels. Each object, piece of furniture, accessory with a story
to tell, a memory attached to it. The notion of the opaque and the public street faade and the transparent
and fluid interior addressed our concern of public versus private. The large verandah and central
courtyard garden has become the hub of the house with all spaces visually looking into it. The house
continues to evolve over the years and is filled with things that Tanya and I look at and that make us
smile. A sculpture that our kids have made for us, a table that we designed, a light fixture sourced from a
flea market somewhere in the world, a painting that is a gift from a friend. My key priority that the design
should be contemporary and open to the elements. I think when you are in an environment such as Kerala,
you need to get used to it rather than being separated from it. I would like to limit the use of glass as far as
possible and also the need for air conditioning. I want to spend most of the day in and around a large pool,
looking out into the ocean, a place to practice my yoga and meditation. The furniture should be non fussy,
minimal and hardy, so the focus is on the surrounding natural environment. The conversations with Mike
were about letting the natural sea breezes in and avoiding air conditioning that he was allergic to, that
there was nothing very precious in the house. So, security was not much of a concern. He always like
walking around barefoot so that the texture and coolness of the floor was important to him, that materials
should age gracefully, and furniture should be hardythat the days would be spent on the decks of the
pool, reading, meditating; swimming and practising yoga and nights would be retreat in his bedroom. Our
interventions were very few; recognition that the interior design story should play a supportive role and
not complete with the already bold architecture. We avoided glass completely, made use of the strong
tradition of carpentry in Kerala by crafting a system of sliding and folding louvered window shutters so
that we can control light, breeze and view. The materiality as well as the furniture and accessories were
kept simple and minimal so as not to distract from the natural environment. We want privacy from staff
and casual visitors. We want a peaceful oasis from the stresses of life. We want our memories of growing
up in old Bangalore, a city of sleepy colonial bungalows even while we want clean modern lines of
contemporary architecture. We want space to breathe, a verandah to watch the rain fall, and a garden to
potter about in and since we are all avid readers, we want a home that will accommodate and give
importance to our ever-growing collection of books. The client is a writer. She gave us a well articulated
twelve page brief and the idea of reading a narrative gave an important aspect of the design process. The
outcome of this house is a collage of the old and new, the nostalgia of bringing in the hymns of the
traditional architecture that they had grown up with, accommodating the old pot, the ancestral swing, her
grandfathers writing desk and in the centre of the house accommodating an open plan library that spills
out into an ample verandah and deck and garden. The choice of the whimsical furniture was also very
deliberate as we had conversations about other designers across the globe such as _____________(50:00)
who use notions of craft, memory and nostalgia in their work. Each piece has its own personality and
converses with the other even without our intervention. This was unmistakably Lavanyas pool. She
requested it to be covered from the sun due to a skin allergy she has and behowered the upstairs bedrooms
over the pool.

The five examples are of clients who articulated a clear vision of how they wanted to live,
demonstrated their own sense of identity and individuality. What about the rest? How do the designers
reflect their own style, while still reflecting the diverse range of our clients lives? How do we bring out
our clients personalities in the house while articulating our own will? For architects, such as us, who had
no formal training or education in interior design, the start was Bijoys so-called Dive model. We then got
professional, wanted to get our designs approved efficiently and quickly and learnt from the boutique
hotel model but along the way, we have possibly stopped having those crucial conversations that lead us
to design outputs with longevity. It is our hope that homes are able to evolve, long after we leave our
design imprint; that they dont remain static in time. The catalogued approach to design interiors could be
short-lived. We will probably in the next decade see many online design outfits offering somewhat
customized solutions at one-tenth of our rates. So we do need to look at the added value of our input to
our clients. The culture, materiality, crafts, traditions of our country are unique and we can intelligently
use these as a springboard to create original enrooted work, one that is contextual, reflective of the people
who reside in these spaces and one that ultimately evolves the sensibility of our clients. Thank you.
Samira Rathod: Okay, I think they were just amazing, both of them. Her earlier work was quite
overwhelming to see actually. Lots of questions, I think, the other people also have some. But I think what
you said was very vibrant, the importance of a brief which is exactly what Sandeep also pointed out
withI meanan interior spacesomehow it seems like the brief and the whole idea of making a brief
can be both limiting as well as liberating as you know one has seen. But, you know, in fact, he posed the
same question at the end of his topic. What happens when there is no clear brief, I mean, how does one go
about? I mean, even, from, or sometimes as a very tight brief given by say an architect of a project we
have seen several times, they have these already confirmed, pre conceived notion of how is space gonna
feel like and what if, you know, you have a completely different take on it? So, how do you, I mean, I
would ask, you know, both of you, how do you, kind of, approach that kind of situation and how do you
think one should deal with?
Shimul Jhaveri: I think this is the most important issue and I, you know, in the educational field, I was
working with this idea with Azim Premji Foundation actually, they have showed us how, creating a shared
meaning in any group of stakeholders is the crux to any successful endeavour. So, theres the idea, theres
the meaning-subjective meaning, objective meaning and shared meaning and the reason Im bringing this
up is because whether it is a single client or many clients or multiple client, you many believe that you
have got the brief but the brief is far larger that what has been said and it takes a certain process of
evolution to actually get the essence of that brief and what is the priority? weve been given ten things by
the client but what is that one thing priority that is going to guide the design the conversation that
leads to that to me is the most important defining moment that gets you to a designwhether you get a
brief from a design or noI think it is our ability to converse and literally kind off leak out the right brief
that leads to the success of the project.
Sandeep Khosla: Well, I agree with what Shimul is saying. I think, it cannot stop our design
interventions or our response ______(55:55) and you cannot just churn out the product. Its got to be a
variety or a number of conversations, a visit to their current ways, their habits, their lifestyle, the way they
kind off interact, their issues of privacy versusyou know..what is private and what is public? How they
kind of behave in their interior spaces? I think one has to, it is a little more effort and work but I think,
one has to get to that essence, otherwise, how do you kind of really extract their personality or extract

those narratives or stories which can actually propel a good interior design or productI mean, I have
been to sites where I would have just kind of walked through the site but over lunch, you start
conversingthey tell you about a passion they may haverecently, someone told me about her passion,
the ladys passion of wanting to have a large aquarium in a house and I almost threw up thinking of the
whole aspect of an aquarium and told her I will have to think about itcan it be done in an exciting way?
can it be a part of the design story? And is it a part of her identity? So why dont they delve into this in a
more exciting way? And in a more open way? Like the vaastu housepeople those who are into
astrology..into vaastu and how do we reflect their nature? Because those are the projects that will liveI
meanI went to the site the other dayand I was just walking around the site in Chennaithis young
couple and their mother told me this wonderful story of a tree planted.they thought it was another tree
and it turned out to be an auspicious Shiv treeand the meaning it has in their lives and I said this is the
story that will go down many generations in their house.so how do you kind of respect that notion and
create something around it? And celebrate itso how do we celebrate those moments and those
interactions while still holding on to our design aesthetics and as you said everyone wants to be a
stakeholder and feel that they are all part of that larger vision and I think in any interior design project..its
been less of a challenge for us in hospitality and corporate interiors where there has been very defined
brief but in residential spaces..how do you get the entire family to believe in that vision? Because youre
gonna leave that project and what happens after ten or fifteen years to that space? Is there a kind of a
holistic vision which will kind of get continued? So, I think those are the questions we ask all the time
and I think Im more and more convinced that one has to dig deeper from the initial brief.
Samira Rathod: So, you would say that it is very client sensitivebasically..you sensitize yourself to
the client like you mentioned like in a corporate project, the end person is someone you have to leave to
your imaginationI mean..so how do you sensitize your interior to that?
Shimul Jhaveri: I meanthats spot on..because literally you now realize that we need workshops on a
regular basis if we want the ideology to stay through till the end of the projectwe need shared means
meaning with all the stakeholders.
Samira Rathod: But isnt that tough like in a corporate park or a business parkI meantypicallyits
complicated right? Because the person who is just building the project wants to build it and just move out
and he has a budget and the person who is using the project is a completely different entity.
Sandeep Khosla: youre saying not using the end user?
Samira Rathod: really? I mean who is the client? I mean this happens often know. Who would you? I
mean where would the balance and the sensibility lie?
Sandeep Khosla: In the case of corporate interiors, you would be designing for an end client.
Samira Rathod: No, like suppose, theres a building. Today, a developer builds a building and youre
doing the lobby spaces. Would they be generic or like you said brand building? Would it come under that
umbrella? What would it be? How generic would the lobby space be? Would it conforming to the brand of
the developer? I mean, is it an IT building or used as an auditorium or whatever? How do you work that
out? Its a complicated function in a single block or a building and there is no end user to deal with?

Sandeep Khosla: I dint quite understand..I mean if I get what you are saying if you were doing a large IT
Park or a large project..lets see you are doing a large commercial building..you are going
_____(01:02:34) those spacesthe various people will be doing their own interiors and you would be
doing the generic lobbyobviously you would have to design with a general appeal and I think most
interior designers would understand this as a general, non-specific space. Its like people who design
airport lounges, they understand generally what would appeal..
Samira Rathod: Bijoywould you like to make a comment here?
Bijoy: yeahthe client is an component____________(01:03:27). And some of these are not necessarily
a conversation with the client. Its your own personal take on what youre doing? Where youre doing
that? And the conditions youre presented with. So, this brief thing, on one side, of course, the client gives
you a lot of information but there is a lot of other stuff also one is looking forand sometimes you just
dont rely on the clientswhich is why the house is a tough onebecause its not so much about our own
take.. it is a shared oneconversations which are sometimes very tough.
Aneesh Bajaj: Shimul, you opened by saying that you made mistakes and you went through your
archive and these were ______ (01:04:35) on your part but frankly, I dint see it that way. I saw it over a
twenty five year period of what you did and may be the government factory or the government office that
you first did and then the lawyers office and then the Indian home and the Kala Chowki warehouse..was
that the Yamini project?
Shimul Jhaveri: Yamini is local brand, the exporter.
Aneesh Bajaj: yeah, you re-visited the space and redesigning if Im correct
Shimul Jhaveri: were re-visiting it now. It had gone down.
Aneesh Bajaj: Okay. I dint see too many mistakes or I couldnt tell or read the errors..you were so
rhetorical of yourself. Thats may be a maturity of practice as you go over twenty five years and you
learnt from the experiences that you first did when you started out. But, for young designers today, if you
have to look at their first few years of practice, what would be those examples? In terms of dos and donts
that you might want to guide a young practice? Because you talked about not being selective about the
material and just using a whole lot of things and spaces not being continuous in the kind of the design
outcomes that you had?
Shimul Jhaveri: I think, particularly, with the first project, and the Sonmarg house, I think, clarity of
thought to me is what defines the success of the project. And in both those projects, I see a certain. In first
one, particularly, the mistake that I see in the juries that Sandeep talked aboutin an interior design
juryIm constantly looking for a certain clarity of thought which makes it all come together makes me
feel this has a purpose and is extremely skillfully rendered. It has a simplicity, a purpose whereas right
now, we are bombarded with engines and very often we make a ______(01:07:07) of images and to me
that is when you are not clear with your thoughts and this happens often even when you are bombarded
with requests from your clients that client architect interaction.when client says I prefer to this? This
is better? I saw this in someones house there..when you have a certain clarity of thought, you are able to
overcome those multiple demands, the meaning needs to reiterated through the process of the project all
the way to the end involving the client in every stage, reiterating what has been the central thought,

adapting that central thought as need be, so that it still forms the story. I was critical of the first few
projects because I felt they were immature, they were bending to many different images and in middle of
that was the Ajeeja Project.
Aneesh Bajaj: the lawyer one right? I feel that it was fine.
Shimul Jhaveri: Yeah, even though that was at the same time, I think, we managed to get the scale there
and create a _____ (01:08:447)project then. In a way, Im also trying to say it wasnt a linear programme.
Im not trying to say look how bad I was and look how good I am..im trying to say even in the same
period of time, there can be lack of clarity. I was so overwhelmed. I was young, it was my first project,
the client was literally doing me favour by giving me this project. I had no staff .i dint know anything
about interiors. I was struggling. I was pullingI have seen this hereI have put this there..let me try
putting them together.and I see that.
Samira Rathod: Yeah Kaiwan.
Kaiwan: Thanks. This might be in some way a corollary to what Aneesh was saying. Would you say this
transition over a number of projects over a number of years rather than being a problem in a particular
project about interior design. Is this the way you perceive yourself as a designer, that has changed over a
period of time? Do you see the role of professional designer differently you had seen in the 80s and early
90s than now and the parallel would be that what were the context within which some of these projects
came up? Coz the aliveness of thinking is very different today. I think automatically we will be critical in
the general sense than one would be in the 80s or early 90s. probably, both these lenses are important to
look at these were problems in design? It is not about design..its more about ourselves, perceptions as
practitioners and designers. Its more like a comment.
(01:10:50)Speaker? Sandeep Khosla: Thats a good point. The essence of what you are saying that there
may be a lack of conceptual approach in those, which happened in later projects. So, there was a lack of a
singular idea may be, so then, young designers, if they dont go with the mood board to the client and say
I want your buy-in on this, youre just going to get thrashed and its going to be all about this piece of
furniture and that light fixture and that accessory, you know, its very easy to get lost in the world of
interior design without a very strong conceptual approach.
Samira Rathod: Zameer, why dont you? Zameer would have a comment, Im sure.
Zameer: So, I mean we are discussing two things. One, is the clarity that we have as designers in the
studio. The other one is the kind of transference, the shared brief basically. The clarity we have in the
studio builds up in time I guess, maybe, we can discuss that some other time. But the transference, Ive
always felt, like we were doing BlueFrog Caf in Pune and we would give long, amazing presentations
for how we are gonna make it, everything gonna be located, you can do like this while the acoustic
designer came in and everything was over him. So, we started selling our design based on that acoustic
design. So, that one shared brief is actually the most important thing and it cant be a design studio
conversation which is translated into a brief, one brief which everyone in the project is fighting for. There
needs to be an objective brief, something like vaastu, something that sells better, like should we go for
pink..nothat works betterso, yeah, making an objective for residential is a much tougher task but it
can be donethat little push and pull to make something donethat becomes a checkpoint for all

conversationssomething objective, that shared briefI totally agreethat worksso the dealings with
the entire team involved with the project. Another conversation that the clarity internally in the studio
itself is a different conversationokaySo I kind of wrote it down and so we both now..I think I would
probably like you to respond to this questionyou knowbecause of having spent a couple of decades
practisingnow..I kind of wrote it downso with the current aspiration desire for clean modern lines
contemporary design as one of your client, Sandeep.as most clients would like as well as garnishing of
parallel overlapping desires for comfort in terms of imagesyou know..like iconography is one of
them..you knowlike you talk aboutyou knowId like to have this in my place which I like it..or you
know I want this because in my childhood I had it. So maybe my question is a bit specific in terms of the
place that iconography or you knowconsideringyou know our own cultural background, images
what do they have in this? What is the place they have in this kind ofyou know this shell of abstract
spatiality that most clientsyou know want and then can they become more than just objectsyou
knowgoing back to even what John Berger ____(01:15:22) said more than half a century ago. So Im
sure like as practitioners you knowat some point..you must haveor Im sure you constantly deal with
this conundrum. So Im eager to understand how you do that?
Samira Rathod: This is a question for either one of them or both?
Shimul Jhaveri? (01:15:53):