The difference between algebraic and scalar load case combinations in CAESAR II

explanation of the load case combination
Wei Rong Offline

Member
Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 18
Loc: tulsa
I have searched through the CAESAR forum, although the topic is discussed , my q
uestion is never addressed.
I would like to have clear explanation of the load case combination(algebraic or
scalar):
I know that CAESAR recommended load case setup is as follows(except case 3):
case
case
case
case
1
2
3
4
W1+T1+P1(OPE)
W1+P1(SUS)
T1(EXP)
L1-L2(EXP)
It is suggested that Case 4 is the right way to calculate displacement stress. T

he load from case4 is an algebraic combination of load and displacement from cas
e 1 and case 2.
Q1. As far as non-linear as concerned, I do not think it correct to use two nonlinear load results "do algebra" to calculate the load that is the difference of
two. On the contrary, I think load case 4 is correct.
Q2. What is the difference between "algebraic or scalar"?
I did not see any difference in restrains reports while outputing case 4 with ei
ther setup, but a big difference in stress value.
Q3. To obtain the stress in case 4, CAESAR first solves case 1 and 2 for displac
ement and restrains, then combine them to calculate the stress in case 4. Is it
defined in B31.3 that requires superposition of two non-linear loads?
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#6549 - 09/13/06 10:34 AM Re: explanation of the load case combination
Dave Diehl Offline
Member
Posts: 923
Loc: Houston, TX, USA
A1: I do not understand the question.
A2: Press F1 while focused on the Combination Method cell on the Load Case Optio
ns tab in the Static Analysis window. You will find the description of algebraic
and scalar. Here's an excerpt (parenthetic comments are mine):
"The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic case and a Scalar case are equival
ent. There may be variation at the stress level, since in an Algebraic combinati
on the stresses are calclulated (from the signed loads) and in a Scalar combinat
ion they (the unsigned stresses) are combined."
So, structural results (loads and displacements) are the same whether Algebraic
or Scalar. Only stresses are affected.

A3: B31.3 paragraph 319.2.3(b) bases the Displacement Stress Range on "the algeb
raic difference between strains in the extreme displacement condition and the or
iginal (as-installed) condition (or any anticipated condition with a greater dif
ferential effect)". That's what we do in CAESAR II.
The 2006 Edition of B31.3 will have an updated Appendix S that includes a nonlin
ear (+Y) support in model to illustrate how this works.
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naveenvujini Offline
Member
Posts: 15
Loc: new delhi
"The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic case and a Scalar case are equival
ent. There may be variation at the stress level, since in an Algebraic combinati
on the stresses are calclulated (from the signed loads) and in a Scalar combinat
ion they (the unsigned stresses) are combined."
i think it is reverse Algebraic combination the stresses are (the unsigned stres
ses)& Scalar combination (from the signed loads).
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Dave Diehl Offline
Member
Posts: 923
Remember that we are talking about vectors (X,Y,Z), not just + and -. You can ei
ther sum the vectors or sum the vector magnitudes. In CAESAR II summing the magn
itudes is Scalar and combining the vectors is Algebraic (I would have prefered t
he latter to be called Vector, as in Vector or Scalar summation.)
There are other combination methods listed there too.
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#6552 - 09/14/06 12:46 PM Re: explanation of the load case combination
Wei Rong Offline
Member
Posts: 18
Loc: tulsa
Dave , I confused.
In my mind,Summation of the magnitude of each freedom x,y,Z,Mx,My and Mz with si

gn included, which is regarded as "scalar", is the same as Vector Summation.
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Richard Ay Offline
Member
Posts: 3421
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
From http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Scalar :
Scalar: (?), n. (Math.) In the quaternion analysis, a quantity that has magnitud
e, but not direction; -- distinguished from a vector, which has both magnitude a
nd direction.
In physics a scalar is a quantity that can be described by a single number (eith
er dimensionless, or in terms of some physical quantity). Scalar quantities have
magnitude, but not a direction and should thus be distinguished from vectors. M
ore formally, a scalar is a quantity that is invariant under coordinate rotation
s (or Lorentz transformations, for relativity). A scalar is formally a tensor of
rank zero.
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Richard Ay
COADE, Inc., now part of Intergraph Corp.
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Du Wei Offline
Member
Posts: 11
Loc: Perth, WA
I present a test to clarify this issue:
Assume in Global Coordinate there are:
A = 3 (in X direction)
B = -4 (in Y direction)
Algebraic(A+B)= 5 (or -5)
Scalar(A+B)= -1
SRSS(A+B)= 5
ABS(A+B)= 7
Are all the above right?
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Dave Diehl Offline
Member
Posts: 923
Take a look at scalar-vector illustration
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Dave Diehl
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Loren Brown Offline
Member
Posts: 257
Loc: Houston, TX
Dave Diehl Wrote: "The Displacements and Forces of an Algebraic case and a Scala
r case are equivalent. There may be variation at the stress level, since in an A
lgebraic combination the stresses are calclulated (from the signed loads) and in
a Scalar combination they (the unsigned stresses) are combined."
This should answer your questions in their entirety. In your example A+B = -1 fo
r both Scalar and Algebraic. But when we talk of Stress these are calculated fro
m the Algebraic case from the resulting forces and moments and in Scalar the str
esses are not re-computed, but rather added (or subtracted) from the stress resu
lts of the other two cases.
As to why you get a big difference between stresses from load cases T1(EXP) and
L1-L2(EXP) it is simple. In T1(EXP) you have not taken into account the possibil
ity of piping moving under the influence of the other loads in the system. For e
xample if your pipe moves to one side of a gap due to weight and then when the s
ystem is in operation it moves to the other side of the gap, you now have a move
ment of twice the gap size. This will cause a much different stress result than
T1(EXP) which can at most move only half this distance.
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Loren A. Brown
Senior Engineer/Developer
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Intergraph Process, Power, & Marine
12777 Jones Road, Ste. 480, Houston, TX 77070 USA
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Wei Rong Offline
Member
Posts: 18
Loc: tulsa
All:
Per you explanantion , I am aware now. Thanks.
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Simplemath

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explanation of the load case combination

Wei Rong Offline

It is suggested that Case 4 is the right way to calculate displacement stress. T

or Scalar. Only stresses are affected.

In my mind,Summation of the magnitude of each freedom x,y,Z,Mx,My and Mz with si

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