Identifying Jesus - Is He Man or Both Man and God - Reasonable Faith

12/19/2016 IdentifyingJesus:IsHeManorBothManandGod?
|ReasonableFaith
IdentifyingJesus:IsHeManorBothManand
God?
WilliamLaneCraigvs.YusufIsmail
May2010
Notes Notes
Introduction JohnSmyth(Moderator)
WilliamLaneCraig OpeningSpeech
YusufIsmail OpeningSpeech
Notes Moderator
WilliamLaneCraig Firstrebuttal
YusufIsmail Firstrebuttal
WilliamLaneCraig Secondrebuttal
YusufIsmail Secondrebuttal
WilliamLaneCraig Rebuttal
YusufIsmail Rebuttal
Questions&Answers Q&A
Notes
[Dr.CraighasrecordedsomepostdebatethoughtsonthisdebatewithMr.Ismail
seehttp://www.reasonablefaith.org/muslimdebateinsouthafrica(accessedJuly8,2014).]
[Somelogisticsinformationandmoderatorintroductionispresentedatthestart.Mr.Smyth,the
moderator,thenalsopresentssomeopeningcommentstotheaudienceinattendance.WepickupMr.
Smyth'sopeningcommentsatthe3:25mark.]
JohnSmyth(Moderator)
Ourtwoleaddebaterswillofcoursenotbegivinglectures,evenlesspreachingsermons.Theirtaskisto
laythefoundationforallofustodebateandconsiderthisvitallyimportanttopicbyidentifyingtheissues
andprovidingevidenceforfactswhichmaybeinissue.Ofcourse,ladiesandgentlemen,youarejudge
andjury.Rememberthat.Asyoulistentothesetwoeminentmen,asyoudebatetheissuefromthefloor,
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/debate/identifyingjesusishemanorbothmanandgod#_ftn13 1/35
12/19/2016 IdentifyingJesus:IsHeManorBothManandGod?|ReasonableFaith
yourgoalistodecidewherethetruthlies.Inapostmodernagewhererelativismprevails,truthisa
preciouscommodity.Wearedealingwithlifechangingissuestonight.Wemustputourprejudicesaside
andseektruthtonight.
Theman,Jesus,whoisthetopicofourdebateweareseekingtoidentifyhiminthisdebate.He
claimed,accordingtotheNewTestamentrecords,tobetheway,thetruth,andthelife.Didhesayit?
Didhemeanit?Washemad?Washeaconman?Orwasheactuallyspeakingthetruth?Thoseare
someoftheissueswhichwearegoingtodebatetonight.Mytaskasmoderatorissimplytoensurean
informative,lively,fastmoving,succinctdebate.
Hereistheformat.Dr.CraigwillbegininamomentwhenI'veintroducedhimwithanopeningstatement
themaximumof30minutes.Wewillaskbothmainspeakerstobelessiftheycan.Mr.Ismailwillfollow
withamaximumof30minuteshisfirststatement.Iremindyouthatduringthesestatementsdon't
applaud.Therewillbeplentyoftimeforapplauselater.Thenweshallhaveafirstrebuttalfromeach
speaker,andasecondrebuttalfromeachspeaker,andthenaveryshortclosingstatementfromeachof
ourleaddebaters.Atthatpointwewillhaveashortbreak.Wewillhavebeengoingforanhourandahalf.
Theninthesecondpartofthedebatewewillhavequestionsfromthefloor,andI'lltellyoumoreabout
theformatforthatinduecourse.
MayIintroducefirstofallDr.WilliamLaneCraig.HeisouroverseasguestfromAmerica.HeisResearch
ProfessorofPhilosophyatTalbotSchoolofTheologyinLaMirada,California.Heearnedadoctoratein
philosophyattheUniversityofBirmingham,Englandbeforetakingadoctorateintheologyfromthe
UniversityofMunichinGermany.Heisapopularinternationallectureronuniversitycampuses.Hehas
authoredoreditedoverthirtybooksincludinghissignatureworkReasonableFaithaswellasovera
hundredarticlesinprofessionaljournalsofphilosophyandtheology.Manyofhisarticlesanddebatesare
availableonlinewilliamlanecraig.com[ed.www.ReasonableFaith.org].
ThenletmeintroduceYusufIsmailatthispointalso,thoughhewillbecomingsecond.Dr.Craigbegins
simplybecauseheisproposingthemotionthatJesusisbothmanandGod.YusufIsmailearneda
B.Comm.lawdegreefromtheUniversityofDurbaninWestvilleandreceivedhisLL.B.degreeatthe
UniversityofNatal.Hewasanadvocateforashortperiod,thenwentbacktothesidebarandisnowa
practicingattorney.Mr.IsmailisalsoaparttimelecturerinlawatUnisa.HeisheadingtheInterfaith
DepartmentoftheIslamicPropagationCenterInternationalonaparttimebasis.Hereheisprimarily
involvedindiscussionsfocusingontherelevancyofChristianityandIslaminthemodernworld,
discussionsonChristianMuslimrelationsinpostmodernsociety,andthechallengesofsecularisminthe
21stcentury.Mr.Ismailhasengagedinregulardebatesontheologicalissueswithanumberofleading
ChristianfiguresinSouthAfricasuchasDr.DavidSeecombe,PastorGlennSchentke,BobBenjamin,and
Dr.AlanProphet.Lastyearhewasinstrumentalinsettingupandcoordinatingaseriesofdebates
betweenShabirAllyfromTorontoandleadingChristianapologistinSouthAfrica,JohnGilchrist.
OverthentoDr.Craigforhisopeningstatement.PleasewelcomeDr.Craig.
WilliamLaneCraigOpeningSpeech
DR.CRAIG:[1]Thankyouandgoodevening.IwanttobeginbysayinghowexcitedmywifeJanandIare
tobehereinSouthAfrica.WehavesoenjoyedthebeautyoftheCapeaswellasyourwarmthand
hospitalityinreceivingus.Iamalsoverygladtohavetheopportunitytodiscussthisveryimportant
questionthiseveningwithMr.Ismail.
BothChristianityandIslamhaveanexaltedplaceforJesusofNazareth.Muslimsarerightlyoffendedby
thesecularattacksuponJesuswhichonefindsuponthewebsitesofsocalledInternetInfidels.Thatis
theirownselfdescription.ThesewebsitespopularizetheclaimthatJesuswasjustamythologicalfigure
whoneverreallyevenexisted,thathewasnotbornofthevirginMary(thisideabeingderivedfrompagan
mythology),thatheneverperformedmiracles,andthatheneverclaimedtobetheMessiah.TheMuslim,
liketheChristian,rightlyfindsthesescurrilousclaimstobesimplyoffensivebecausetheQur'anaswellas
theNewTestamentexplicitlyteachesthatJesuswasthegreatestofalltheprophetswhoeverlived,that
hewasmiraculouslyconceivedandbornofthevirginMary,thathehimselfperformedmiracles,thathe
healedtheblind,cleansedlepers,andraisedthedead,andthathewasindeedtheMessiah.
ButitisnotjustthattheseclaimsareinsultingtoJesus.Themoreimportantpointisthattheyarebased
uponpseudoscholarshipwhichismorethan100yearsoutofdate.Contemporarystudiesofthehistorical
Jesushavecometorecognizethatpaganmythologyissimplythewronginterpretivecontextfor
understandingJesus.JesuswasbornandlivedinthereligionoftheHebrewBible.Itisinthatcontextthat
itistobeproperlyunderstood.ThisrealizationhasledtowhatNewTestamentscholarCraigEvanshas
calledtheeclipseofmythologyinlifeofJesusresearch.Hesaysthatmythologyisnolongerseenasa
relevantcategoryinlifeofJesusresearchtoday.Whatyouwillnoticeabouttheseinfidelwebsitesisthat
theyalmostnevercitetheprimarysourcesofpaganmythologytosupporttheirclaimsthattheGospels
weredrawnfrompaganmyths.Itisnowonder,becausewhenyoudoreadtheprimarysourcesyoufind
thattheyarenotreallyparalleltotheGospelsatall,andthatallofthesupposedparallelsareconcocted
andspurious.
SothenexttimesomeonecomestoyouclaimingthatthestoryofJesusisbaseduponpaganmyths,you
canbesurethatthatpersoniseitheracharlatanorelseapseudoscholarwhoishopelesslyoutofdate.
ButwhileIslamandChristianitybothhaveanexaltedplaceforJesus,neverthelesstheredoesremainthis
hugedifferencebetweenthem.MuslimsregardJesusasmerelyhuman,whereasChristiansbelievethat
Jesuswasbothhumananddivine.
ItisimportantthattheChristianclaimherebeproperlyunderstoodorconfusionwillbeinevitable.
ChristiansbelievethatJesuswastrulyhuman.Buttheydonotbelievethathewasmerelyhuman.
ChristiansbelievethatJesushadtwonaturesahumannatureandadivinenature.Inhishumannature,
Jesusexperiencedalloftheinherentlimitationsofhumanitybeinglimitedintimeandspace,being
limitedinphysicalstrengthandknowledge,feelingexhaustion,hunger,andpain,beingmortal.Ifindthat
Muslimsoftendon'tunderstandthis.TheythinkthatifyoushowpassagesfromtheGospelswhichdisplay
Jesus'truehumanitysuchashislimitedknowledgeorhisphysicallimitationsthenyou'vetherebyproved
thatheisnotalsodivine,wheninfactallyouhaveprovedisthatheistrulyhumanwhichChristiansagree
with!Thus,youcannotrefutetheChristianpositionbydemonstratingthehumanityofJesusbecause
ChristiansbelievethatJesuswastrulyhuman.ThequestionbeforeusthiseveningisnotJesus:IsHe
ManorGod?Butratherthequestionis,Jesus:IsHeManorBothGodandMan?Torefutethe
Christianposition,theMuslimtheologianneedstoshowthatJesushadonlyonenatureahuman
nature.Ontheotherhand,theChristiantheologian,inordertoestablishhisposition,needstogivesome
goodreasonforthinkingthatJesushadnotonlyahumannaturebutalsoadivinenature.
Theproblemwefaceishowtosettlethisdispute?FortheGospelssayonethingandtheQur'ansays
another.TheGospelsportrayJesusasbothhumananddivine.TheQur'aninsiststhathewasmerely
human.So,whoisright?SincebothChristiansandMuslimsregardtheirsacredScripturesastheWordof
Godandthereforetrue,weseemtohaveastandoffhere.Istheresomewaythatwecangetpastthis
standoff?Fortunately,thereis.
SinceJesuswasarealhistoricalperson,wecanbreakthedeadlockbyexaminingthehistoricalcredibility
ofthesecontrastingpicturesofJesus.Inotherwords,thesearchforthehistoricalJesuscanhelpto
resolvethedisagreementbetweenChristianityandIslam.
InordertodeterminewhothehistoricalJesusreallywasweneedtohavesomeobjectivecriteriafor
assessingoursources.ProfessorJohnMeier,aneminentNewTestamenthistorian,liststhefollowingfive
criteria[2]:
1.Multiple,independentsources.Eventswhicharerecordedinindependentandespeciallyearly
sourcesarelikelytobehistorical.
2.Dissimilarity.IfasayingoreventisdifferentfrompriorJudaismandalsofromlaterChristianity
thenitprobablydoesn'tderivefromeitheroneandsobelongstothehistoricalJesus.
3.Embarrassment.Sayingsoreventsthatwouldhavebeenembarrassingordifficultforthe
Christianchurchareunlikelytohavebeeninventedandsoarelikelyhistorical.
4.Rejectionandexecution.Jesus'crucifixionissoindisputablyestablishedasananchorpointin
historythatwordsanddeedsofJesusmustbeassessedintermsoftheirlikelihoodofleadingtohis
executionasKingoftheJews.AblandJesuswhojustpreachedmonotheismwhichwasalready
acceptedbytheJewsofhisdaywouldneverhaveprovokedsuchopposition.
5.Coherence.Oncewe'veestablishedabodyoffactsthenothereventscanbeassessedbyhow
welltheyfitinwiththeestablishedpicture.
WhenweapplysuchcriteriatotheNewTestamentweareabletoestablishagooddealaboutthe
historicalJesus.Intonight'sdebate,Iwanttodiscussjustthreeofthefactsthatemergeaboutthis
remarkableperson.
FACT#1:Jesus'RadicalSelfConcept.
TheQur'ansaysthatJesusthoughtofhimselfasnomorethanahumanprophetwhotoldpeopleto
worshiptheonetrueGod.However,onthebasisofthecriteriaitcanbeshownthatamongthehistorically
authenticwordsofJesusareclaimswhichrevealhisdivineselfunderstanding.TonightIwanttolookat
justtwoofthese.
Firstofall,Jesus'claimtobetheSonofMan.Thecriteriaofmultiple,independentsourcesandof
dissimilarityshowsthatthisclaimbelongstothehistoricalJesus.Mostlaypeopleprobablythinkthatthis
titlereferstoJesus'humanity,justasthetitleSonofGodreferstohisdeity.Butthatisamistake.Itfailsto
takeintoaccounttheOldTestamentbackgroundoftheexpression.InthebookofDaniel,chapter7,
DanielseesavisionofadivinehumanfigureaSonofMancomingonthecloudsofheaventowhom
Godwillgiveeverlastingauthority,glory,anddominion.Nomerehumanbeingcouldbeaccordedsucha
status,forthiswouldbetocommitthesinwhichMuslimscallshirk,whichisgivingsomethingwhich
properlybelongstoGodalonetosomebodyelse.Yet,thisisthestatuswhichJesusclaimedforhimself.
ProbablythemostfamousSonofMansayingbyJesuscomesathistrialbeforetheJewishhighpriest:
Thenthehighprieststoodup...askedJesus,AreyoutheMessiah,theSonoftheBlessedOne?
Iam,saidJesus.AndyouwillseetheSonofMansittingattherighthandoftheMightyOneand
comingonthecloudsofheaven.Thehighpriesttorehisclothes....Youhaveheardthe
blasphemy.Whatdoyouthink?Theyallcondemnedhimasworthyofdeath(Mark14:6065,NIV).
EveryMuslimwouldhavetoagreewiththehighpriestandthecouncilthatJesusisablasphemerwhois
worthyofdeathbecausehehasmadehimselfequaltoGod.
Secondly,notonlydidJesusclaimtobetheSonofMan,buthealsothoughtofhimselfastheuniqueSon
ofGod.ThisisaclaimthatJesusoftenmakesintheGospels.Wewilllookatjustthreeexamples.
First,Jesus'selfunderstandingasGod'suniqueSoncomestoexpressioninhisParableoftheWicked
TenantsoftheVineyard.Evenradical,skepticalcriticslikethoseinthesocalledJesusSeminarrecognize
theauthenticityofthisparable.InthisparablethevineyardsymbolizesIsrael.Theownerofthevineyardis
God.ThetenantsaretheJewishreligiousleaders.TheservantsaretheprophetssentbyGod.InMark
12:19Jesussays,
Amanplantedavineyard.Heputawallaroundit,dugapitforthewinepressandbuilta
watchtower.Thenherentedthevineyardtosomefarmersandmovedtoanotherplace.Atharvest
timehesentaservanttothetenantstocollectfromthemsomeofthefruitofthevineyard.Butthey
seizedhim,beathimandsenthimawayemptyhanded.Thenhesentanotherservanttothem
theystruckthismanontheheadandtreatedhimshamefully.Hesentstillanother,andthatone
theykilled.Hesentmanyotherssomeofthemtheybeat,otherstheykilled.
Hehadonelefttosend,ason,whomheloved.Hesenthimlastofall,saying,Theywillrespect
myson.
Butthetenantssaidtooneanother,Thisistheheir.Come,letskillhim,andtheinheritancewillbe
ours.Sotheytookhimandkilledhim...
Now,whatdoesthisparabletellusaboutJesus'selfunderstanding?IttellsusthatJesusthoughtof
himselfasGod'sonlybelovedSon,distinctfromalltheprophets,God'sfinalmessenger,andeventhe
heirtoIsrael.EventheMuslimapologistShabirAllyadmits,TheSonobviouslyrepresentsJesuswhom
Godsentlastofall.SoJesusisshowntobedifferentfromtheprophets.Heisnotoneoftheservants.He
isabelovedSon.Eventhisisanunderstatement.Intheparable,Jesusdescribeshimselfas
God'sonlybelovedSon.Jesusdidnotthinkofhimselfasmerelyanotherhumanprophet.
Second,Jesus'selfconceptasGod'sspecialSoncomestoexplicitexpressioninMatthew11:27:
AllthingshavebeencommittedtomebymyFather.NooneknowstheSonexcepttheFather,and
nooneknowstheFatherexcepttheSonandthosetowhomtheSonchoosestorevealhim.
ItisunlikelythatthechurchinventedthissayingbecauseitsaysthattheSonisunknowable.Noone
knowstheSonexcepttheFather.Butinthethinkingoftheearlychurch,wecanknowtheSon.Sobythe
criterionofdissimilarity,thissayingisauthentic.ButwhatdoesthissayingtellusaboutJesus'self
concept?IttellsusthathethoughtofhimselfastheexclusiveSonofGodandtheonlyrevelationofGod
tomankind.
Finally,anotherfascinatingsayingrevealingJesus'senseofbeingGod'suniqueSonishissaying
concerningthedateofhisreturn.Hesaid,Butaboutthatdayorhournooneknows,noteventheangels
inheaven,northeSon,butonlytheFather(Mark13:32).Itishighlyimprobablethatthissayingisthe
productoflaterChristiantheologybecauseitascribesignorancetoJesus.Thecriterionof
embarrassmentthereforerequirestheauthenticityofthissaying.Buthere,oncemore,weseeJesus'
consciousnessofbeingGod'suniqueSon.Notonlythat,thesayingalsopresentsuswithanascending
scalefrommen,totheangels,totheSon,totheFatherascaleonwhichJesustranscendsevery
humanbeingandeveneveryangelicbeing.Thisisreallyincrediblestuff!Yetthisiswhatthehistorical
Jesusbelieved.C.S.Lewiswasrightwhenhesaid,
AmanwhowasmerelyamanandsaidthesortofthingsJesussaid...wouldeitherbealunatic
onthelevelwiththemanwhosaysheisapoachedeggorelsehewouldbetheDevilofHell.You
mustmakeyourchoice....Youcanshuthimupforafool,youcanspitathimandkillhimasa
demonoryoucanfallathisfeetandcallhimLordandGod.Butletusnotcomewithany
patronizingnonsenseabouthisbeingagreathumanteacher.Hehasnotleftthatopentous.[3]
FACT#2:JesusTrialandCrucifixion.
AccordingtotheGospelsJesuswascondemnedbytheJewishhighcourtonthechargeofblasphemy
andthendeliveredtotheRomansforexecutionfortreasonforclaimingtobeKingoftheJews.Notonly
arethesefactsconfirmedbyindependentbiblicalsourceslikePaulandtheActsoftheApostles,butthey
arealsoconfirmedbyextrabiblicalsources.FromtheJewishhistorianJosephusandtheSyrianwriter
MarabarSerapionwelearnthattheJewishleadersmadeaformalaccusationagainstJesusand
participatedineventsleadinguptohiscrucifixion.FromtheBabylonianTalmud,Sanhedrin43a,welearn
thatJewishinvolvementinthetrialwasexplainedasaproperundertakingagainstaheretic.Andfrom
JosephusandtheRomanhistorianTacitus,welearnthatJesuswascrucifiedbyRomanauthorityunder
thesentenceofPontiusPilate.AccordingtoL.T.Johnson,aNewTestamenthistorianatEmoryUniversity,
Thesupportforthemodeofhisdeath,itsagents,andperhapsitscoagents,isoverwhelming:Jesus
facedatrialbeforehisdeath,wascondemnedandexecutedbycrucifixion.[4]
PerhapsthesinglemostegregioushistoricalerrorfoundintheQuranisitsclaimthatJesusofNazareth
wasnotinfactcrucified.Notonlyistherenotasingleshredofhistoricalevidenceinfavorofthis
remarkablehypothesis,buttheevidencesupportingJesuscrucifixionis,asJohnsonsays,
overwhelming.ThoseofusheretonightwhoareMuslimsneedtounderstandthatnoonewhoisnot
alreadyaMuslimbelievesthatthehistoricalJesuswasnotcrucified.ThecrucifixionofJesusis
recognizedevenbytheskepticalcriticsintheJesusSeminarastoquoteRobertFunkoneindisputable
fact.[5]Indeed,PaulaFrederickson,whosebookFromJesustoChristinspiredthetelevisionseriesby
thesamename,declaresroundly,ThecrucifixionisthestrongestsinglefactwehaveaboutJesus.[6]
FACT#3.JesusResurrection.
WhathappenedtoJesusafterhiscrucifixion?Onthebasisofthecriteriaofauthenticity,themajorityof
scholarswhohavewrittenonthissubjectagreethatfourthingshappened:
1.Jesus'corpsewasinterredinatombbyamemberoftheJewishSanhedrinnamedJosephof
Arimathea.AsJohnA.T.RobinsonofCambridgeUniversitystates,theburialofJesusinthetomb
isoneoftheearliestandbestattestedfactsaboutJesus.[7]
2.JesustombwasfoundemptybyagroupofhiswomenfollowersontheSundaymorningafter
thecrucifixion.EvensohostileacriticasBartEhrmanrecognizesthatwehave,inhiswords,solid
traditions,notonlyforJesusburial,butalsoforthewomensdiscoveryoftheemptytomb,and
therefore,hesays,wecanconcludewithsomecertaintythatJesuswasinfactburiedbyJoseph
ofArimatheainatombandthatthreedayslaterthattombwasfoundempty.[8]
3.Variousindividualsandgroupsofpeopleonmultipleoccasionsandunderdifferent
circumstancessawappearancesofJesusaliveafterhisdeath.Thisfactisuniversally
acknowledgedbyNewTestamentscholars.EventheskepticalGermanNewTestamentcriticGerd
Ldemannadmits,ItmaybetakenashistoricallycertainthatPeterandthediscipleshad
experiencesafterJesusdeathinwhichJesusappearedtothemastherisenChrist.[9]These
appearanceswerewitnessednotonlybybelievers,butalsobyunbelievers,skeptics,andeven
enemies.
4.TheoriginaldisciplessuddenlyandsincerelycametobelievethatJesuswasrisenfromthedead
despitehavingeverypredispositiontothecontrary.Thinkofthesituationthedisciplesfaced
followingJesus'crucifixion.(1)Theirleaderwasdead,andJewishmessianicexpectationsincluded
noideaofaMessiahwhoinsteadoftriumphingoverIsrael'senemieswouldbehumiliatingly
executedbythemasacriminal.(2)Jewishbeliefsabouttheafterlifeprecludedanyone'srisingfrom
thedeadtogloryandimmortalitybeforetheresurrectionattheendoftheworld.Nevertheless,the
originaldisciplessuddenlyandsincerelycametobelievesostronglythatGodhadraisedJesus
fromthedeadthattheywerewillingtogototorturousdeathsforthetruthofthatbelief.The
eminentBritishscholarN.T.Wrightobserves,IfnothinghappenedafterJesus'deaththenanyfirst
centuryJewwouldhavesaid,'Hewasanotherdeludedfanatic.'Thatiswhy,asahistorian,Icannot
explaintheriseofearlyChristianityunlessJesusroseagain,leavinganemptytombbehind
him.[10]
AstheworldfamousIslamicistKennethCraggnotes,thismeans
MuslimwritersfaceadeephistoricalproblemsincetheyareobligedtoexplaintheimpactofJesus
intermsofhisteachingsonly.TheplacewheretheresurrectionstandsisforIslamablank.Yetits
sequelcannotbeignoredevenifontheMuslimviewithastobeasequelwithoutaproperlytotal
source.
Allofthishasenormoustheologicalsignificance.Byraisinghimfromthedead,Godhasdramaticallyand
publiclyvindicatedthoseallegedlyblasphemousclaimsforwhichJesuswascrucified.AstheGerman
theologianWolfhartPannenbergexplains,
TheresurrectionofJesusacquiressuchdecisivemeaning,notmerelybecausesomeoneor
anyonehasbeenraisedfromthedead,butbecauseitisJesusofNazareth,whoseexecutionwas
instigated...becausehehadblasphemedagainstGod.Ifthismanwasraisedfromthedead,then
thatplainlymeansthattheGodwhomhehadsupposedlyblasphemedhascommittedHimselfto
him.[11]
ButthatmeansthatJesusmusthavebeenexactlywhoheclaimedtobetheuniqueSonofGodandthe
divinehumanSonofMan.ThatiswhyChristiansbelievethatJesuswasnotmerelyhuman,butalso
divine.
Insummary,onpurelyhistoricalgrounds,wehaveseen(1)thatJesusofNazarethpossessedaradical
selfconceptastheuniqueSonofGodandthedivinehumanSonofMan,(2)thathewastried,
condemned,andexecutedforhisallegedlyblasphemousclaims,and(3)thatGodraisedhimfromthe
deadinvindicationofthoseclaims.
AllofthisstandsincontrasttotheQuransclaimsthatJesusthoughtofhimselfasamereprophet
preachingablasmonotheism,thathewasnotcrucified,andthathedidnotinfactrisefromthedead.
Whenyouthinkaboutit,however,thissituationisntreallysurprising.Imean,whichwouldyoutrust:
documentswhichwerewrittendownwithinthefirstgenerationaftertheeventstheyrecord,whilethe
eyewitnesseswerestillalive,orabookwrittenover600yearsaftertheeventsbyapersonwhohadno
independenthistoricalsourceofinformation?Why,eventoaskthequestionistoanswerit!
Infact,theQurancontainsdemonstrablylegendarystoriesaboutJesuswhichevolvedduringthe
centuriesafterhisdeath.ImreferringtostoriesaboutJesuswhicharefoundinthesocalledapocryphal
gospelstheseareforgerieswhichappearedinthesecondandthirdcenturiesafterChristandwhich
theQuranpicksupandallegedlyrepeatsasfacts.Forexample,theQuranmentionsthestory
borrowedfromthelegendaryforgeryentitledTheInfancyGospelofThomasofhowtheboyJesus
madeabirdoutofclayandthenmadeitcometolife(III.70,V.100110).Suchstoriesarelegendary
fictions.Thus,theQuranoffersusnoindependenthistoricalsourceofinformationaboutJesus.Thatis
whynohistoricalscholarturnstotheQur'anasasourceofinformationaboutthehistoricalJesus.
SowhoistherealhistoricalJesus?TheJesusoftheNewTestamentwhoclaimedtobetheuniqueSonof
GodandthedivinehumanSonofManwhowastried,condemned,andcrucifiedforthoseradicalclaims,
whorosefromthedeadinconfirmationofthoseclaims?OrisittheJesusoftheQur'an,ananachronistic
creatureofablasmonotheism,whothoughtofhimselfasnomorethanahumanprophet,whodidnot
dieonthecross,andwhoneverrosefromthedead?PraisebetoGodthatitistheJesusoftheNew
Testamentwhichwithstandsthetestsofhistoricalinvestigation.
[1]8:24
[2]JohnMeier,AMarginalJew,vol.:1:TheRootsoftheproblemandthePerson,AnchorBibleReference
Library(NewYork:Doubleday,1991),pp.168177.
[3]C.S.Lewis,MereChristianity(NewYork:Macmillan,1952),p.56.
[4]LukeTimothyJohnson,TheRealJesus(SanFrancisco:HarperSanFrancisco,1996),p.125.
[5]JesusSeminarvideotape.
[6]PaulaFrederickson,remarkduringdiscussionatthemeetingofTheHistoricalJesussectionatthe
annualmeetingoftheSocietyofBiblicalLiterature,November22,1999.
[7]JohnA.T.Robinson,TheHumanFaceofGod(Philadelphia:Westminster,1973),p.131.
[8]BartEhrman,FromJesustoConstantine:AHistoryofEarlyChristianity,Lecture4:OralandWritten
TraditionsaboutJesus(TheTeachingCompany,2003).
[9]GerdLdemann,WhatReallyHappenedtoJesus?,trans.JohnBowden(Louisville,Kent.:
WestminsterJohnKnoxPress,1995),p.80.
[10]N.T.Wright,TheNewUnimprovedJesus,ChristianityToday(September13,1993),p.26.
[11]WolfhartPannenberg,JesuGeschichteundunsereGeschichte,inGlaubeund
Wirklichkeit(Mnchen:Chr.Kaiser,1975),p.92.
YusufIsmailOpeningSpeech
MR.ISMAIL:[12][Arabic]IbegininthenameofGodthemostgraciousandmostmerciful.Mr.Chairman,
MC,JohnSmyth,myerstwhilecompetitorDr.WilliamLaneCraig,ladiesandgentlemen,goodevening.It
isanimmenseprivilegetobesharingthisplatformwithsoeminentanindividualasDr.Craig.Itismy
privilegetobebackinCapeTown.
Imustsaythatinhalfanhour,Dr.CraighasconfirmedwhatIhadinitiallypredicted.Andthatishehasnot
producedasinglepassageorversefromtheNewTestamentwhereJesusproclaimsdivinity,wherehe
says,IamGod,orwherehesays,Worshipme.Infact,whatheseemstobeengagedinisaprocess
ofwhatwewouldcalldecontextualization,andsoI'mprettysurprisedbytheweaknessofthearguments
thatIhearthisevening.Comingtothetopic,IdentifyingJesus:IsHeManorBothManandGod,Ithink
thethemefortheprogramofthiseveningisaclaimorcrybythisparticularindividualcalledJob.Hesays
inJob25:4,HowthencanmanbejustifiedwithGod?Orhowcanhebecleanthatisbornofawoman?
Beholdeventothemoon,anditshinethnotyeathestarsarenotpureinhissight.HowmuchlessMan
thatisamaggotandtheSonofManwhoisaworm?Manisdescribedasamaggotaccordingtothe
bookofJob.TheSonofMan,ifwehavetoapplythesameparticular...youareassumingyouwantto
apply1,001prophesiestoJesus,theSonofManisdescribedasaworm,aslightlyhigherdegree.Thatis
thisthemeforthisparticularevening.ItisimportantthatsomeofthestatementsImakearenotmeantto
offendanyparticularindividualtonight.
Attheoutsetweneedtobasicallycometothisparticularpoint:itisimportantinadebateofthisnature
thatwelookatoursource.Withoutdetractingfromthedebate,ifthesourceisindoubtthenrelianceupon
thatparticularsourcetoproveatheologicalpointdoesn'tproveanything.Manypeoplearen'tawareofthe
factthatwhatwehaveasaNewTestamentisnothingmorethananeclecticedition.Iamsurprisedthat
Dr.Craigasanotedscholarneverpointedthatout.Whatthetextualcriticdoesisthatheselects,here
writes,orhechoosesfromacollectionofmanuscriptstodeterminewhatmightbetheoriginal.Sometimes
aselectionamountstonomorethananinformedguess.Herewehaveacollectionofdifferenttypesof
manuscriptslikethepapyri,uncials,cursives,minuscules.Outofatotalof5,847manuscriptsyoucansee
thattheexistingeditionsoftheGreekNewTestamentuseaparticularminority.Sometimesgoingdownas
lowas5%.Why?ThisisacommitteeofBibleSocietysuchasBruceMetzgersittinginthemiddlewitha
numberofindividuals.Whataretheydoing?TheyaredevelopingtheNewTestamentbasedonthe
existingmanuscripts.Ofthe5,847Greekmanuscripts,notwoapartfromtheverytiniestfragmentsare
identical.Infact,upuntilthe8thcentury,thereisnotoneGreekmanuscriptthatcontainstheentireNew
Testamentinitsparticularorder,untilofcoursethedatedUspenskiGospelsofthe8thcentury.
Onecangoonfurther.WhataboutthewordsofJesus?AreweinpossessionofthewordsofJesus
today?WhatpeopleandscholarstellusisthatJesusspokeAramaic,notGreek.Furtheron,asyoucan
seeinActs26:14,JesusspoketoPaulintheHebrewdialect.SometranslationshaveitasAramaic.So
theproblemisthatifthesourceisnotreliable,ifwearenotsurewedon'thavetheoriginalwordsof
Jesus,thenhowcanwegoaboutmakingtheseparticularclaimsthatheallegedlymade?
AninterestingpointtoalsonoteisthatwhenwelookattherelationshipsbetweenthesynopticGospels,
Dr.CraigsubscribestoatheorycalledMarkanprioritywhichIaccept.ManyfundamentalistsChristians
willnotacceptit,whichisthatMarkwasthefirstGospeltobewrittenandthenMatthew,Luke,andJohn
subsequentlyfollowedbasedupontheworksofMark.Asyoucanseethereisatripletraditionandthere
isadoubletradition.WehavepassagesinMatthewwhicharetakendirectlyfromMark.PassagesinLuke
andMatthewwhichareidentical.PassageswhichareonlyuniquetoMark.Andinaccordancewiththat,
Markisseentobetheprimarysource.ThefourGospelsintheChristianBible,ifwearetoconcedethat
theyaretheprimaryavailablematerialsforJesus,thenitisimportanttonotethatwhenwecompareone
GospeltoanotherwecanseehowstoriesforexampleaboutJesuswerechangedtoreflectahigherview
ofJesus.Forexample,scholarstodaythevastmajoritywouldstatethattheGospelsthemselveswere
writtennotashistoricalworksbutasapologeticworkstoproveparticulartheologicalmotifs.Ifyou,for
example,compareMarktoMatthewwecanseehowthelaterGospelchangedindividualreportstoraise
aviewofJesusinthefollowingways.Forexample,passageswherepeoplecallJesusLord.Inone
occasionwhereJesuswastransfigured,inMarkPetercallshimrabbi,butinMatthewPetercallshim
Lord.TohaveJesusrefertohimselfasLord.WhenJesusdirectedhisdisciplestowaitandwatchforhis
imminentreturn,inMarkhecalledhimselfthemasterofthehousebutinMatthewhecallshimselfyour
Lord.Samepassageimprovement.JesusbeingcalledtheSonofGod.AsCaesareaPhilippi,Jesus
asksPeterwhohethoughthewas.InMark,PetersaysyouaretheMessiah.ButinMatthewPetersays
youaretheMessiah,theSonoftheLivingGod.SoyouseeMatthewhasaddedthetitledtheSonofthe
LivingGod.TohavepeoplepraytoJesus.WhenJesuswasasleepintheboatandthestormrockedthe
boat,inMarkthedisciplesawakeandwhatdotheysay?TheysayTeacher,doyounotcareifwe
drown?ButinMatthewtheypraytoJesusandsay,Lord,saveus.Weareperishing.Sotherebukein
Markonthesameincidentwaschangedtoaparticularprayer.SocomparingMarktoMatthewinthis
particularwaywehaveseenhowMatthewhasreworkedthematerialtobringoutlaterChristian
teachings.Infact,thedifferenceisfarmorepronouncedwhenyougotoJohn'sGospel.InJohn'sGospel,
you'dfindJesusmakesamostsignificantandfarreachingclaimIamthelightoftheworld,Iamthe
resurrection,Iamtheway,thetruth,andthelife.IfJesussaidthesethingsthen...theotherGospels
wouldsurelyhaverecordedthem.Theyarenotthere.Buttheydidnotbecausehedidnotsaysuch
things.ThemaninwhichJesusapproachesdeathhasalsobeenreworked.InMark,JesusbegsGodto
savehimfromthecrossthoughhesubmitstoGod'sdecision.ButinJohn,Jesusdeclaresthathewillnot
[pray]tobesavedinJohn12:27.Sowecanseethatinthiswaywhenwemultiplytheexamplesofhow
oneafteranothertheGospelswentaboutmodifyingtheimageofJesusforlaterreaders.Whenwe
compareMarkwiththelaterGospelsyounoticethemodificationsinthelaterones.Ifyoucouldcompare
MarkwithitspredecessorsthenyouwouldfindthatMarkhasalsomodifiedhisstory.Thisistheactual
relationshipbetweenthesynopticGospelswhichIwouldsubmitthatDr.Craigwouldnottakeany
objectiontoinprinciplebecausehewouldsubscribetothesameviewwithhisscholarship.
Onelastpoint.ThedeathofJesusafterthePassoverduringthePassoverinMark14:12thedisciplesask
JesuswheretheyaretopreparethePassovermealforthatevening.Inotherwords,thatisontheDayof
PreparationforthePassover.ButinJohn'sGospelwearetoldthatPilatepronouncesthatsentenceon
thatparticularDayofPreparationforthePassover.NowDr.Craigwouldobviouslyhavetoexplainthatto
us.Why?Youknowwhy?BecauseinJohn'sGospel,Jesusisthatsacrificiallamb.HeisthatPassover
lambwhosesacrificebringssalvationfromsins.Soinotherwords,Johnhaschangedahistoricaldatum
tomakeaparticulartheologicalpoint.Jesusisthatsacrifice,andtoconveythattheologicalpoint,John
hastonowcreateadiscrepancybetweenhisaccountandtheotherparticularGospels.Itisimportantthat
youneedtolookatthisincontext.DonotdecontextualizeScripture.Ifyoudothatyouwilldoviolenceto
theparticulartext.
ThearticleoffaithinthefirstcenturyaccordingtotheapostoliccreedasarticulatedbyTheodorZahnwas
IbelieveinGod,theAlmighty.Thatwasalwaysthecase.Between180and210thewordFatherwas
addedbeforetheAlmightymeaningIbelieveinGod,theFatherAlmightywhichwasobviouslybitterly
disputedbylaterchurches.Thenwehavethiscouncil.Itwaschurchcouncilsthathadtodeclarethe
divinityofChrist.Incarnationwasdefinedasadoctrineonlylongafterthestrugglesbytheparticular
churchcouncils.ItisinterestingtonotethatinanemaildiscussionwithLudarCarsten,Dr.Craigrefused
todiscussthetopicIsJesusGod?Hesaid,Well,youhavetogobacktotheactualbeliefasisfoundin
theCouncilofChalcedonwhichdefinedthetwonaturesofChrist,bothhumananddivine.Thevast
majorityofChristianscholarsintheworldtodayactuallyrejecttheideanotbecauseitisdifficultto
understandbutbecauseitcannotbemeaningfullyexpressed.
Wehaveaproblemhere.IfwearetobelievethatJesusisbothhumananddivine,whichDr.Craighasn't
spentmuchtimeelaboratingon,thenitstandstoreasonthateverythingJesushasdoneisdonebothby
thehumanityandthedivinityinhim.Solikewiseeverythingthathappenedtohimhappenedtoboththe
manandGodthatheis.Marygavebirthtoboth,bothdiedonthecross,etc.HustonSmithisaworld
renownedwriteroncomparativereligion.InhisbookTheWorld'sReligionshesaidthattheorthodox
doctrineislogicallyincompatible.Why?HesaysWemaybeginwiththedoctrineoftheincarnationwhich
tookseveralcenturiestofixintoplace.HoldingasitdoesthatinChrist,Godassumedahumanbody,it
affirmsthatChristwasGodmansimultaneouslybothfullymanandfullyGod.Tosaythatsucha
contentionisparadoxicalseemsacharitablewaytoputthematter.Why?HesaysItseemsmorelikea
blatantcontradiction.IfthedoctrineheldthatChristwashalfhumanandhalfdivineorthathewasdivine
inotherrespectsourmindswouldnotbalk.
ItisinterestingtonotethatontheTVshowbyLeeStrobelFaithonFireDr.Craigconcededinthedebate
withRabbiSingerthattheTrinitycannotbefoundintheOldTestament.Youcan'tderiveit.Itisnotthere.
TheexistenceoftheTrinitywouldbehardtofind,toparaphrasewhatheactuallysaid.Iwouldsubmitthat
thesameprinciplewouldapplyintheNewTestamentitisnotthere.Fortherearethreethatbearrecord
inheaven,theFather,theWord,andtheHolySpirit,andthesethreeareone.Whereaboutisitinthe
Bible?MaybeDr.Craigcouldinformus.C.RandolphRoss,whoisaparticularwriter,inhisbookCommon
SenseChristianityhedebunkstheorthodoxviewnotbecauseitcanbedifficulttounderstandbutbecause
itcannotbemeaningfullysaid.Hesaid,
Tobehumanistobefinite,limitedinknowledge,fallible,andimperfect.Tobehumanalsomeansto
beawareofone'sfinitude,andofone'sseparationfromothersandfromgodsometimespainfully
aware.IfJesuswashuman,thenhewasalloftheseandindeedthisishowtheGospelsportray
him,experiencinganger,fatigue,uncertainty,reluctance,painandevendeath.
TobeGodmeanstobeeternalandunlimited,tobeperfectinloveandunderstanding.Now,either
JesusofNazarethwaslimited,fallibleandimperfect,orelsehewasunlimited,infallibleandperfect.
Thesetwosetsofattributesareoppositesofeachother.Youcan'thaveitbothwayshewaseither
oneortheother.Youcan'tsayofonepersonthathewasboth.
Nowwe'vegotachallengebeforeus.PerhapsI'mhopingthatDr.Craigcangiveusintherebuttal
unpackbeforeusonemodelthatwoulddemonstratethetwonaturesofChristinChristiantheology.Show
meonemodel.Somepeoplehavetrieditusingthecircleandtheaspectorillustrationofasquare.Let's
lookatacirclerepresentingdivinity.ThatwouldfailbecauseJesusissaidtobebothhumananddivine.
Whataboutasquarerepresentinghishumanity?ThatwouldfailbecauseJesusissaidtobebothhuman
anddivine.Whataboutanobjectsomewhatroundandsomewhatsquare?ThatwouldfailbecauseChrist
issaidtobecompletelyhumanandcompletelydivine.Whataboutacircleinsideasquare?Thatwould
failbecausetheysaythatGodbecameman,notthatGodwasinsidetheman.Whataboutasquare
insideacircle?ThatwouldfailbecausemanisnotsaidtobeinsideGod.Sowecomebacktothe
question:Dr.Craigwouldhaveto,inhisrebuttal,showusaparticularmodel.He'swrittenanarticlecalled
TheBirthofGod.ItisquiteinterestinginthatarticlehesuggestsinordertoprovethedivinityofChrist
thatChrist'sdivinitywaspartofhissubliminalsubconscious.Hegivestheanalogyakintoaperson
sufferingfrommultiplepersonalitydisorder.So,areyousayingthatJesuswasGodordivinebuthewas
notawareofhisdivinity?Itwaspartofhissubliminalsubconscious?Explainandunpackthemodelbefore
us.Thatiswhatneedstobedoneinthereply.
RandolphRosscontinues,
Ah!somewillsay.That'stheparadox!No,itisn'taparadox.Thisisaveryimportantpoint,so
pleasetakespecialnote:aparadoxissomethingwhichseemsimpossiblebutwhichis
demonstrablytrue.Thus,itwasaparadoxwhensomescientistcarefullyanalyzedbumblebeesand
concludedthataccordingtothelawsofphysicstheycouldn'tfly.Therewascontradictionand
apparentimpossibility,butbumblebeeskeptonflying.
However,foranindividualtobeperfectandimperfectisareverseofthis:itmayseemtrueto
some,butitisdemonstrablyimpossible.Andnotjustimpossibleaccordingtoourunderstandingof
thelawsofnature,whichcanbewrong(aswiththebumblebee),butimpossibleaccordingtothe
rulesoflogicuponwhichallourreasoningisbased.
Unlesswecanconcededhonestly,Dr.Craigcansay,lookthisisnotaccordingtologic,thisisaccordingto
belief.Behonestandsuggestthat.
Forexample,whatwehavehere.Ifyouweretoforexample...theorthodoxwouldbasicallysaythat
Jesuswasimperfectwithregardtohishumannaturebutperfectwithregardtohisdivinenature,butthe
problemwiththatisthatitimpliestheexistenceoftwopersonsoccupyingonebodyofJesus.Oneperfect,
theotherimperfect.Twominds,twowills,twocharacters.Butthecreeddoesn'tallowit.Itsaysthat
somehowortheotherJesuswasnottwopersonsbutonlyone.
Letmeelaboratethelastpoint.Newknowledgecanoftendeclareoldknowledgetobefalse.Butwiththe
rulesoflogicthingsaredifferent.Whatistruebydefinitionwillalwaysremaintrue,unlessofcourseyou
startredefiningthings.Forexample,2+2=4.Thatequationwillalwaysremaintrue,unlessofcourseyou
startdecidingtochangethedefinitionofthecomponentparts.Bydefinition,athingcannotbethe
oppositeofitself.Athingcannotbeperfectandimperfectatthesametime.Thepresenceofoneofthese
qualitiesimpliestheabsenceoftheother.Jesuswaseitheroneortheotherbuthecannotbelogicallybe
both.IhaveaquestionforDr.Craig.Canyougetafatthinman?
Tosaysomeoneisbothperfectandimperfectislikesayingthatyousawasquarecircle(orafat
thinman).Thisisanimpossibility.Areyousayingthecirclewasnotround,inwhichcaseitwasnot
acircle?Orareyousayingthesquarewascircular?Thisisnotaparadoxthisismeaningless
nonsense,howeverimaginativeitmightbe.
ThatiswhatC.RandolphRossconcludes.
I'vegotaquestionforDr.Craig.WhenJesusfaceddeathonthecross,accordingtoChristianbelief,did
hefaceitwithahumanbeliefthathewouldberaisedonthethirddayordidhefaceitwiththeinfallible
knowledgethathewouldbesoraised?IfhebelievedwithhumanfaithinGod'spowertoraisehimthen
hehimselfwasnotGod.Butifontheotherhandhefaceddeathwithaninfallibledivineknowledgethathe
wouldberesurrectedthenhewasnottakinganyrealriskinlettinghimselfdie.Becauseifthedivine
natureinhimknewhewouldberaisedbutJesusdidnotknowthatthenitwasnothisdivinenature.Ifthe
divinenatureknewsomethinghedidnotthenwearebacktotwopersons.Soexplainthattome.
TosaysomeoneisbothperfectandimperfectatthesametimeistosaythatXandnotXcan
bothbetrue.Thisis...toabandonlogic.
Let'slookatthis.Thestoryofthefigtree.
Jesuswashungry.Seeinginthedistanceafigtreeinleaf,hewentouttofindifithadanyfruit.
Whenhereachedit,hefoundnothingbutleaves,becauseitwasnottheseasonforfigs.Thenhe
saidtothetree,Maynooneevereatfruitfromyouagain(Matthew11:1214).
TheproblemI'vegotwiththisisthatitiseasytounderstandthatthehumanJesusfelthungerandthat
thehumanJesusdidnotknowitwasnotfigseasonandsomistakenlyexpectedthetreetohavefruit.A
divineJesuswouldhaveknownallofthis.Nowhismiraclesorthecursingofthetreetheysayare
performedbyhisdivinenature.Let'sassumethatthedivineJesuscursedthetree.Why?Whyruinatree
whichinMark'sviewwasaperfectlygoodtree?Comefigseasonthetreewouldhavefruitandothers
wouldhaveeatenfromit.ThereasonwasthatthehumanJesusmadeamistake.Butwhydidthedivine
JesusactuponthemistakeofthehumanJesus?DoesthehumanmindinJesusguidethedivinenature
inhim?ActuallythereisnowarrantforallthisspeculationforScripturenowheresaysthatJesushastwo
natures.
SomewillsaythateverythingispossiblewithGodandthatweareusingwordsherewiththeirmeanings.
Thatistrue.AnythingispossibleButifyoutellmeGoddidsuchandsuchathingisfine,butyoucannot
saythatGoddidandGoddidnot.Heisandheisnot.Jesusisallknowingandheisnotallknowing.
Jesusisallseeingandheisnotallseeing.ThereforeIwouldsayimpossible.C.RandolphRoss
concludesonthisparticularpoint,
Ifyouwishtoredefinesomeofthesewords,that'sfine,aslongasyoucantellusthenew
meaningsthatyouareusing.Theusualpractice,however,seemstobetosaythatwhileone
cannotsaypreciselywhatthesenewmeaningsare,oneisneverthelesssurethattheyfittogether
inawaythatmakessense.This,ofcourse,issimplyanefforttoducktherequirementsoflogic.But
ifyoudonotknowthemeaningsofthewordswhichyouareapplyingtoJesus,thenyouaremerely
saying
JesusisXand
JesusisY,
XandYbeingunknowns.This,ofcourse,istosaynothingatall.
ThisisanindividualcalledWilliamElleryChanning,oneofthemanyChristiansthathavemovedtothat
scripturalpositionthatJesusishuman.Hesays,
WheredoyoumeetintheNewTestamentthephraseologywhichaboundsinTrinitarianbooksin
whichnecessarilygrowsfromthedoctrineofthetwonaturesofJesus.Wheredoesadivineteacher
say,ThisIspeakasGodandthisisasman.Thisistrueofmyhumanmind,andthisofthedivine.
Wheredowefindintheepistlesatraceofthisstrangephraseology?Nowhere.Itwasnotneededin
thatage,itwasdemandedbytheerrorsofalateage.
Thisisaninterestingfigure.ThisisactuallyDr.Craig'sdoctoraladviserJohnHick.Heauthoredabook
withanumberoftheologianscalledTheMythofGodIncarnate.Init,whatJohnHickhascometothe
conclusionthatbasicallylikemanypracticingtheologiansthatJesushimselfwasjustsimplyamana
prophetofGod.Anyonewhostillhasdoubtonthisparticularmattershouldreadthatparticularbook.No
heisnotamoderndayHindu,Dr.Craig,asyouseemtosuggestwithDr.Badawi.Heissomeoneof
standingandhisbookhasbeencoauthoredbymanyotherlearnedtheologians.Infact,Iamquite
interestingtoknowwhichbiblicalscholarofnotetodaywithinoneofthemajorseminariesinfact
subscribestotheviewthatJesusisdivine.
I'llputtheopenchallenge.Thisisabeautifulchurch.IfyoucanshowmeoneverseintheNewTestament
whereJesussaysIamGodorwherehesaysWorshipmeorinthecontextoftonight'sdebateIam
bothmanandGod,Iampreparedtobebaptizedtonight.Idon'tspeakformyMuslimbrethrenhere.I
don'tspeakforanyone.ButIamsayingshowmeoneparticularversewherehesaysthat.
IsthereanygreaterthanGod?DoesanyonebelieveanyoneisgreaterthanGod?JesussaysMyFather
isgreaterthanI.InJohn,MyFatherisgreaterthanall.InNumbers23:19,Godisnotamanthathe
shouldlieneitherthesonofmanthatheshouldrepent.IsGodabletodoeverything?Yes.Jesussays,
Ofmyself,Icandonothing,asIhearIjudgeandmyjudgmentisjustbecauseIseeknotmyownwillbut
thewilloftheFatherthatsentme.IfIbearwitnessofmyself,mywitnessisnottrue.Thereisanotherthat
bearwitness.Ifyouaresayingthathisdivinitywaspurelyincidentalthenwhyisithegoesoutofhisway
toemphasizehishumanity?Godknowseverything.Ofcourse.Jesussays,Butofthatdayandthathour
knowethnoman,nottheangelsinheaven,neithertheSon,buttheFather.IseeinthelecturewhichI
willbedealingwithintherebuttalsection,Dr.Craigseemedtosuggest,look,Jesusisnowplacinghimself
abovetheangels.ButIthinkyouarereadingintoScripture.Butbesidesthat,intheQur'anweareeven
toldthatmanisplacedonahigherlevelabovetheangels.Why?Becausehebasicallyhasachoiceof
freewillwhichangelsdon'thave.Somanisseenhigherthanangels.Soinotherwordsifyouwereto
agreewiththatDr.Craigthenyou'dsimplybeconfirmingtheIslamicbelief.
Godspeaksfromhimself.Jesussays,WhatsoeverIhaveheardthesethingsdoIspeak.Thewordsye
haveheardarenotminebutthefatherwhichsentme.Hehasgivenmeacommandment,whatIshould
say,andwhatIshouldspeakevenastheFatherhimselfsaidsoIspeak.DoesGodpray?Jesussays,
MyGod,MyGod,whyhaveyouforsakenme?AndhefellonhisfacejustlikeaMuslimwoulddo.In
Matthew26:39.
GivemeanotherdefinitionoftheprophetinActs2:22.YemenofIsrael,hearthesewordsJesusof
Nazareth,amanapprovedofGodamongyoubymiraclesandwondersandsignswhichGoddidbyhim
inthemidstofyou,asyeyourselfalsoknow.
Amanapprovedof.Jesusidentifiedasaprophet.ItisnotnecessarilyanIslamicbelief.Itisabiblical
belief.ThatiswhattheNewTestamentsays.Imustwalktodayandtomorrowforitcannotbethata
prophetperishoutsideofJerusalem.Jesusissayingthat.What'sabeliefwhereJesuswaskilled?Where
washekilled?OutsideofJerusalem.HesayshereaprophetcannotperishoutsideofJerusalem.Noone
hasseenGodatanytime.Youcannotseehisshapeorhearhisvoice.OrwhenhetoldPhilip,You
haveseenme,youhaveseentheFatherhemusthavebeenmeaningsomethingelse.
TheideathatJesusistheSonofGodisanideawhichbasicallyisalaterdevelopment.JamesDunn,who
isacontemporaryofDr.Craig,inhisbookEvidencefortheMessiah,hestatesthatinMatthew,Mark,and
LukestatisticallyonecandeterminethatthereisanevolutionintermsofwhatJesussaidandhowheis
viewed.Forexample,inMatthew'sGospel,JesusspeaksabouttheKingdomofGod47timesandhardly
ofhimself.ButinJohn'sGospelhespeaksabouttheKingdomofGodonly5times.InMark,Jesusspeaks
abouthimselflikeIamthisorIamthat9times.ButinJohn'sGospelhespeaksabouthimselfa
whopping118times.WhenwerealizethatMarkwasthefirstGospelandJohnwasthelast,wecansee
thenthatthedevelopmentinthewayJesuswasrepresentedovertime.Forexample,inMark'sGospel
JesusreferstoGodastheFatheronce.ButinJohn'sGospelhereferstoGodastheFather73times.
InMark'sGospelJesusreferstoGodasFather3times,butinJohn'sGospelawhopping100times.So
whereasinMarkmoreabouttheKingdomofGodandlessabouthimself,inJohnmoreabouthimselfand
lessoftheKingdomofGod.ThereisanevolutionintermsofwhatweseeintermsofhowJesus
representshimself.
SoitseemstomethatthehigherChristologywhereJesusrepresentedhimselfasaSonofGodis
thoughttobealaterinsertion.Dr.RaymondBrowninhisAnchorBibleVolume29andDr.PaulB.Duff
whoistheChairofDepartmentofReligionatGeorgeWashingtonUniversitystates,
theinnovatedconceptofJesusbeingtheonlybegottensonoftheFatherwasdevelopedinthe
fourthcentury.
Dr.CraigbelievesthatRaymondBrownisascholarofnoteandRaymondBrowniscertainlyarecognized
scholarintheworld.
ItwasinjectedbyJeromeintotheLatinBibletorefutetheclaimsmadebyBishopArius(d.336)and
hisassociatesthatFatheralonewasreallyGodandJesuswasmade(created)andnotbegotten.
Butitisinteresting.ThisisaletterfromPaulB.DuffandwhathesaysisthatinJohn3:16andJohn1:18,
thewordswhichhavebeentranslatedforbegotten,theactualGreekwordismonogenes.[audioskips].
..monogenesdoesnotmeanbegotten.
Thewordordinarilymeansofasinglekind.Asaresult,uniqueisagoodtranslation.Thereason
yousometimesfindatranslationthatrendersthewordasonlybegottenhastodowithanancient
heresywithinthechurch.InresponsetotheArianclaimthatJesuswasmadebutnotbegotten,
Jerome(4thcentury)translatedtheGreektermmonogenes,onlybegotten.
Sothereisabsolutelynothing.InfactwewilldealwiththeissueSonofGodlateron.Butbeforewecan
cometothat,lookatthisquotationinJohn20:1618whenJesusappearedbeforeMaryMagdaleneafter
thesocalledpostcrucifixionappearances.Shegoesandwantstoclingontohim.WhatdoesJesussay?
Hesays,IamascendingtomyFatherandyourFather,tomyGodandyourGod.MaryMagdalenewent
andconveyedthatparticularmessagetothe[disciples].
SowithallthediscussionsthatDr.Craighasgivenus,hehasnotbeenabletobasicallygiveusasingle
pointwhichillustratesthatJesusclaimedtobeGodorwherehesaidthatheisdivineorcommands
peopletoworshiphim.Ofcourseyou'dfindpassagesintheNewTestamentwhichpurporttosuggest
that.But[that'snot]thecase.WithrespecttotheissuepertainingtotheParableoftheWickedTenants
andtheothersocalleddiscussions,IwilldealintherebuttalsectionsoitdoesnotmeanIconcedethat
point.ItisinterestingtonotethattheNewTestamentthatwehavetodayisaneclecticedition.Itisa
developmentwhichisrecognizedbythevastmajorityofbiblicalscholars.You'vegottheoldestmanuscript
CodexSinaiticusdateto400yearsafterJesus.YoufindthatwhenConstantinvonTischendorfdiscovered
theSinaiticushediscoveredsomethinglike14,800editorialalterationswhencomparedtotheexisting
NewTestamentinthe19thcentury.Sothesearepointsofnote.Itisnotscholarlytosayorspeakabout
multipleindependentattestationswhenwedon'tevenhavetheoriginalwordsofJesusamongus.Jesus
neverspokeGreek,hespokeAramaic.I'dliketoendwithoneparticularquotationfromaparticular
scholaronthispoint.ThisisCharlesKammerinhisbookEthicsandLiberation.Hesaysthisisthe
messageIleaveforallofyou,MuslimsaswellasChristians,
IfwearetrulytohonorandrespectthepersonofJesusandliveouttheimplicationsofhislife,
death,andteachings,wecannolongermakeclaimsabouttheabsoluteuniquenessofJesusorthe
necessityoftheencounterwiththepersonofJesusforhumanliberationandsalvation.Tobetrue
tothepersonofJesus,hislife,love,andconcernforothers,hisopennesstopersonsofbothsexes
andalleconomicclasses,allculturalbackgrounds,wemustrepudiateaChristologythatmeasures
theworthofpersonsonthebasisoftheirrelationshipwithChristalone.
IthankyouforthetimewithallthediscussionsthatDr.Craighashad.Unfortunatelyhehasnotproven
thepoint.Iwouldbeinterestedinhearingtherebuttal.IwouldliketoendwithaverseoftheQur'anwhich
says,[Arabic]Whentruthcomesandthrowsitselfagainstthatwhichisincorrect,thatwhichisincorrectis
boundtofallaway.
Thankyouladiesandgentlemen,andGodblessyou.
[12]35:50
Moderator
ThankyouDr.Craig,andthankyouMr.Ismail.Wecomenowtoourfirstrebuttals,onefromeachlead
debater.Ijustwanttoremindthedebatersthatthepurposeofarebuttalisprimarilytodealwithmatters
whichhavealreadybeenraisedbytheothersideandnottointroducenewmaterial.Unfortunatelywe
haven'tgotallnightandthereforeweneedtobesuccinctandconcise.OvertoDr.Craigforhisfirst
rebuttal.
WilliamLaneCraigFirstrebuttal
DR.CRAIG:[13]Thankyou,Mr.Ismailforthoseveryinterestingcomments.Iverymuchenjoyedlistening
tothatspeechandamgladfortheinteraction.
BeforeIreviewthecasethatIpresentedinmyopeningspeech,letmecommentonanumberofremarks
thatMr.Ismailmade.FirsthesaidthatthedeityofChristwastheresultofthedeclarationofcertain
councilsofthe4thand5thcenturiesliketheCouncilofNicaea.Thisisagrossmisimpressionhistorically.
Whatthecouncilsmerelydidwascodifywhatthechurchhadalreadybelievedfromthebeginning.
Indeed,inmanycasestherewerehereticsthatweredenyingthehumanityofChristthatneededtobe
countered.SotherealissueisnotwhattheCouncilsaid,itiswhatisintheNewTestamentandin
particularwhatJesusbelievedabouthimself.
Mr.Ismailthensaysthattheclassicalorthodoxdoctrineofonepersonwithtwonaturesisillogical,
paradoxical,incoherent,youcan'thaveitbothways,givemeamodel,hesays,oftheincarnation.Well,
thoseareexcellentquestionsandinfactIhavedonejustthatinmybookPhilosophicalFoundationsfora
ChristianWorldviewinwhichIlayoutamodeloftheincarnationaccordingtowhichthesecondpersonof
theTrinitytakesonahumannatureinadditiontothedivinenaturehealreadyhadsothathehasafull
complementofhumanpropertiesaswellasafullcomplimentofdivinepropertiesandisthereforetruly
bothGodandman.HeaskswasJesusawareofhisdivinity?OnthemodelIsuggest,youdividethe
consciousnessofChristintolayersbothasubliminalandaconsciouslevelofconsciousness.Ithinkas
ababycertainlyJesuswasn'tawareofeverythingthatheknewinhisdivinenature.Youdon'thavethe
monstrosityofthelittlebabylyinginthemangerthinkingabouttheinfinitesimalcalculusorNew
Testamenttheology.Rather,hegrewinwisdomandstatureashegrewolder.Bytheageof12weknow
thathealreadyhadasenseofhisdivineSonshipbecauseinthetemplevisitwhenhisparentslosthimhe
said,Didn'tyouknowImustbeaboutmyFather'sbusiness.Bythetimehisministrybegan,aswesaw
inmyopeningspeech,hehadaclearsenseofhisdivineselfconsciousnessastheuniqueSonofGod.
Mr.Ismailsays,Canyouhaveamanwhoisbothafatmanandathinman?Well,ifthatmanhastwo
natures,yesyoucan.Letmegiveanillustration.HowmanyofyouhaveseenthemovieAvatar?OK,a
fewatleast.Anavatarisanothernameforincarnation.ThismovietellsthestoryofJakeSullywhoisa
disabledMarinewhobecomesanavataramongaraceofextraterrestrialscalledtheNavi.JakeSullyis
physicallydisabled,yethebecomesphysicallyincarnatedamongthemasaNavi.Atthesametime,
however,hedoesn'tceasetobehuman.SoJakehasbothahumannatureandaNavinature.Thesetwo
natureshavestrikinglydifferentproperties.Ifyouweretosay,CanJakeSullyrun?theanswerwouldbe
yesandno.HecannotrunasahumanbeinginhishumannaturebutcertainlyinhisNavinaturehecan
run.IfyoucanmakesenseofAvatarthenyoucanmakesenseofChrist'sincarnationbecauseinexactly
thesamewayChristhasbothadivinenatureandahumannature.Thesetwonatureshavedifferent
powers.Inhishumannature,Christexperiencedallofthelimitationsintrinsictohumanity,butinhisdivine
naturehehassupernaturalpowers.JustasJakeSullyinhisNavinaturebecamethesavioroftheNavi
peoplesoChristinhishumannaturebecomesthesaviorofhumankind.SoIthinkthismodelmakes
perfectsenseoftheincarnationandthereisnothinglogicalorincoherentaboutit.
HeaskswhattheologiansorNewTestamentscholarstodaythinkthatJesuswasdivine?Well,JamesD.
G.Dunn,whomhequoted,N.T.Wright,JohnMeier,MartinHengel,WolfhartPannenberg,Peter
Stuhlmacher,GeraldO'Collins,Icouldgoonandon.Thereareplentywhoagreewiththedivinityof
Jesus.Infact,hesaid,wheredoestheBiblerefertoJesusasGod?Well,IwouldreferhimtoMurrayJ.
Harris'bookJesusasGodwherehepointsoutninetimeswhereJesusiscalledGodintheNew
Testament.NowwhatissignificantaboutthatisthatJesusdidn'tgoaroundsayingIamGodasMr.
IsmailwoulddemandbecauseGodintheJewishcontexttypicallyreferredtotheFather.Jesusdoesn't
wanttosayIamtheFather.WhathedoesdoishecallshimselftheuniqueSonofGodwhotranscends
allhumanpersons.HeisthedivinehumanSonofManprophesiedbytheprophetDanielwhichareclaims
that,inaMuslimview,wouldbefranklyblasphemousforclaimingtobedivineinthatway.Butsometimes
theNewTestamentwriters,asIsay,loseallsenseofinhibitionandonatleastnineoccasionsdoovertly
refertoJesusasGodhotheosintheGreek.
Themostimportantclaim,however,iswhatJesusbelievedabouthimself.Iproposedseveralcriteriaof
authenticitywhichsignificantlyMr.Ismailaccepts.Ifyouacceptthosecriteriaofauthenticitytheclaimsof
JesusthatIgaveallmeetthosecriteriaofauthenticity.SoyoucannotdenythatJesusmadethem.That
putstheMusliminaveryawkwardpositionbecauseMuslimsbelieveJesusisagreatprophetand
thereforespokethetruth.Butifhespokethetruthyouhavegottobelievewhathesaid,andhesaidthat
hewastheuniqueSonofGoddifferentfromalltheprophets,God'sfinalmessenger,thedivinehuman
SonofManprophesiedbyDanielandGodraisedhimfromthedeadinattestationofthatfact.
Mr.IsmailrespondsatthispointthatthetextoftheNewTestamentishopelesslycorrupt.Thisfrankly,my
friends,isadesperategambitbyMr.Ismail.TheNewTestamentisthebestattestedbookinancient
history,bothintermsofthenumberofmanuscriptsandintermsofthenearnessofthosemanuscriptsto
thetimeitwasoriginallywritten.Outofthe138,000wordsintheGreekNewTestament,onlyabout1,400
thatisaround1%arestillsomewhatindoubt.Eventhoseareutterlytrivial,likethedifferencebetween
yourandour.BartEhrmanhimselfsaystextualcriticismcangetbackprettymuchtowhattheauthors
originallysaid.SotheNewTestament,asyoureadittodayinGreek,youcancanbeconfidentwith99%
accuracythatyouarereadingtheverywordsthatPaulorLukeorMatthewwrote.Tosuggestotherwiseis
simplyignorance.
Mr.IsmailmakesagreatdealofthefactthatthesynopticschangeintheirstatementsofJesus,thatJohn
isdifferentfromthesynoptics.Butallthatisirrelevanttotonight'sdebatebecausewearenotdebatingthe
questionofbiblicalinerrancy.IamstakingmyclaimuponcertainspecificclaimsofJesusthatpassthe
criteriaofauthenticity.ThesearenotdrawnfromJohnorthelatersynoptics.TheyaredrawnfromMark
andtheyaredrawnfromQ,thesourceusedbyMatthewandLukepriortothoseGospels.SoIam
appealingtosomeoftheearliestsourcesbehindtheNewTestament.Let'slookquicklyatsomeofthose
claims.
First,Jesus'radicalselfconceptasthedivineSonofMan.HepointsoutthatinJobtheScripturesaysthe
SonofManisamaggot.ButthepointisthatwhenyoulookatJesus'statement,YouwillseetheSonof
MancomingonthecloudsofheavenwithpowerandglorythatisvirtuallyaquotationoutofDaniel7.Itis
notareferencetoJob.JesusisclaimingheretobetheprophesiedSonofMantowhomalldominionand
authoritywillbegiven.
WhatabouthisclaimstobetheuniqueSonofGod?IsharedtheParableoftheVineyard.HesaysJimmy
Dunnsaysthereislaterdevelopmentsinthesynoptics.ButsofarasIknow,JimmyDunnacceptsthe
authenticityoftheParableoftheWickedTenantsoftheVineyard.Ifhethinksotherwise,I'dliketoseehim
showmeastatementofDunnfromhisrecentbookJesusRememberedthatsuggeststhat.Mr.Ismail
alsomisrepresentsRaymondBrowninsayingthatthelatercreedalstatementsaboutJesusrepresented
development.Certainlythosedorepresentadevelopmentoftheologicalreflectionbutthatdoesnothing
tosuggestthatthisisnotanauthenticparableutteredbyJesusofNazarethinwhichhedistinguishes
himselffromalltheprophetsandsaysheisGod'sonlybelovedSon.WealsosawinMatthew11:27Jesus
claimstobetheSonofGodandtheonlyrevelationofGodtomankind.Thenonthesayingonthedayof
hisreturn,wesawagainheclaimedtobehigherthanmen,thanalltheangels,heisinproximitytothe
Father.HesaysintheQur'anitsaysmanishigherthantheangelsbecauseoffreewill.Butthatisnot
relevant.Thequestionisn'twhattheQur'anmeansthequestioniswhatdidJesusofNazarethmean?He
iscontrastinghimselfwithmenwhoalreadyhavefreewill,aswellaswithangelsinsayingthatheisin
proximitytotheFatherandistheabsoluterevelationoftheFather.
ThetrialandcrucifixionweheardnothingfromMr.Ismailyetonthat.Igranthedoesn'tmeanhe
concedesthepointbutithasyettoberefuted.
Finally,theevidenceforJesus'resurrection.Mostscholarstoday,onthebasisofthecriteriaof
authenticity,acceptJesus'burial,theemptytomb,thepostmortemappearances,andtheoriginofthe
disciples'beliefinhisresurrection.
SoIthinkwehaveverygoodgrounds,solidgrounds,historicallyforthinkingthatGodraisedJesusfrom
thedeadandtherebyvindicatedandauthenticatedthoseallegedlyblasphemousclaimsforwhichhewas
crucified.
AllofthisisincontrasttotheMuslimviewwhichisrelyinguponadocument600yearsafterthefact,
writtenbyamanlivinginArabiawhohadnoindependenthistoricalsourceofinformationaboutthe
historicalJesus.IthinkitisveryclearwherethehistoricallyreliableportraitofJesusistobefounditisin
thoseprimarysourcedocumentsthatarecontainedintheNewTestament.
So,Iwouldsaythatthepastorhadbettergetthebaptismalfountready[laughter]becauseIthinkwehave
everygoodreasontoaffirmtheradicalselfconceptofJesusasevidentintheauthenticsayingsofJesus
intheNewTestament,andwehavegoodreasontobelievethatthoseclaimsaretrueinlightofhis
miraculousresurrectionfromthedead.
[13]1:07:41
YusufIsmailFirstrebuttal
MR.ISMAIL:[14]Thankyouforthat,Dr.Craig,andthankyouforthat.IlikethemovieAvatar.Itisquite
interestingthatinAvatar,JakeSullybasicallyhastwobodies.YetthebeliefinChristiantheologyisthat
youhavethreepersonsmanifestinonedivinebeing.InthecaseofJakeSully,hehadhisavatarbody
andhehadhispersonalbody.Intheend,hisactualbody[inaudible]whentheyendedupburyingthereal
bodyofJakeSullywhenhegaveitup.SothatisnotthesameintermsofChristiantheology.Itis
interestingthatAvatar,accordingtoJamesCameron,hesaidhefoundhisinspirationfromHinduism.I
findthatquiteremarkable.
ComingtothepointaboutJesusmakingtheclaimthathewasadivineSonof...beforeIdealwiththatit
isquiteinterestingtonotethatDr.Craighasnotgivenusamodelyetintermsofwhichhecanillustrate
thatbasicallyJesushastwoparticular[natures].Hehasn'tevenansweredthequestionthatwhenhedied,
ifyoubelieveinhumanfaithandGod'spowertoraisehimselforontheotherhanddidhefacedeathwith
aninfallibleanddivineknowledgethathewouldberesurrected.Whichwasit?Becauseifthedivine
natureknewsomethingthathedidnotthenwearebacktotwopersons.
MuslimswouldsaythatJesusnevercommittedblasphemy.Idonothavetobeprovedtoaskepticthat
JesusoftheQur'anistrue.ItisquiteinterestingthateventhoughDr.Craighasraisedtheissueofthesix
hundredyearslater,hesayslookitsablandtypeofJesusthatispresented.Buthecanfindnoparticular
exception.TheJesusoftheBibleontheotherhand,theapologeticofDr.Craigandthatofferedbymany
apologists,isthattheresurrectionispresentedasasolutiontoaparticularproblem.FollowingwhatDr.
Craigsaid,ifJesusmadetheseparticularradicalclaimsthathewastheSonofGodinthedivinesense
suchthatC.S.LewiswouldsaythatyouwouldhavetochoosebetweendeclaringhimasaSonofGodor
declaringhimasaliar.IfJesusmadethisblasphemer'sclaimsthenfollowingthatJesuswascrucifiedas
ablasphemer.Anditstandstoreasonthatwithoutassumingtheresurrection,allwehaveuntilwe
experiencetheresurrectionorproofsoftheresurrectionisthatJesusdiedasablasphemer.BecauseDr.
Craigadmitsit.Hecan'tcomenowandsayhenevermadetheseblasphemerclaimsbecausethenhe
wouldbegoingagainstwhatGalatians3:13statesthatJesusdiedasacurse.Soinotherwords,ifhe
diedasablasphemerthentherewouldbenoreasonforthedisciplesofJesustobelievehimatthat
particularpointifhewascrucifiedforblasphemy.TheonlyreasontheycouldturnaroundisthatJesus
apparentlyreappearedfromthedead.SofromwhereIstandthenitseemsthatIwouldbeinthesame
positionasadiscipleofJesus.UnlesshereappearstomeIwouldhaveeveryparticularreasontothink
thatheisablasphemer.ButIdon'tthinksobecausetheQur'anofcoursetestifiesthat...it'strue,I
believeintheQur'anandIbelieveinJesus.ButifIputawaytheQur'anandIturntotheBibleIwould
cometothecrucifixionwhichwouldprovetomethatJesuswasafalsepretender.Nowunlesswehave
goodreasonsforthinkingthatGodwouldwanttoresurrectJesusfromthedead,aretheiranygood
reasonsforthinkingthatGodwouldwanttoraiseJesusfromthedead?Firstly,whywouldGodwantto
raiseablasphemerfromthedead?InordertomaintainthatGodraisedhimfromthedead,youcanonly
assumeit,youcannotproveit.SayingacircularbitofreasoningwecanonlyknowthatJesuswastrueif
Godweretoraisehimfromthedead.Godcanonlyraisehimfromthedeadifheweretrue.Butyou,Dr.
Craig,wouldsaythathediedasablasphemersayinginthatcasewhywouldGodwanttoraisehimfrom
thedead.Inordertovindicatetheclaimsofablasphemer?Thatwouldbetheologicallyimpossible
accordingtoallkindsofChristiantheology.
RegardingtheParableoftheWickedTenantswhichDr.Craigreferredto,itisinterestingtonotethatin
thisparablewhenyouanalyzeaparticularstoryyouwillnoticehowfoolishwasthebehavioroftheowner
ofthevineyard.Hesenthisservantsoneafteranotherandknowingthattheywerebeatenandkilled
neverthelesshesenthisbelovedsontothesamedanger.Althoughhehadfullpowertoacthedid
nothinguntilhissonisdefinitelykilled.Heisalsoignorantofthefuturebecauseinthisparablehe
neverthelessassumesthatthewickedservantswillrespecthisson.Socanonenowcomparethatfoolish
mantoGod?Butthatiswhattheentirestorydoes.ThatiswhyitisadmittedinthePelicanNew
TestamentCommentariesofSt.Markpage309thatitisunlikelythatJesustoldthisparticularparable.
Secondly,ifyoulookatJesusmentionedclearlybeingtheheirofthevineyard,thatisthethoughtsand
theverywordsofthetenantnottheowner,God.Therefore,Dr.Craig'sbeliefsarebasicallyaccurately
matchingtheirbeliefsnotGod'sword.Besidesthatamancansendhissonexpectingthetenantswould
respecthimbutnotnecessarilythatheishisonlysonexactlywhattheownerdidnotmention,hedid
notsaymyonlyson.
RegardingtheissuethatDr.CraigraisedaboutthefactspertainingtoJesusbeingclosetoGod.Itis
interestingtonotethatinIslamabelieverishigherthanangelsandanonbelieverislowerthananimals
simplybecauseangelshavenodesirespushingthemtosin.Itisintheirnaturetoalwaysbeobedient.
Andsoanobedienthumanisbetterthantheangels.Atthesametimeanimalshavenointellecttoutilize
likehumans.Soitisnormaltobeuncontrollableontheirparticulardesires.Iseenoparticularproblemin
respecttothat.
Dr.Craigmadementionquitesignificantlyoftheresurrection.Itisinterestingtonotethatyoucanpoint
outnolessthanfortyonecontradictionsintheresurrectionaccountsalone.Itisalsointerestingtonote
thattheearliestsourcetomentiontheappearanceofJesusisPaul.Hesays,forexample,inthebookof
Corinthians,ForIdelivereduntoyoufirstofallthatwhichIalsoreceived,howthatChristdiedforoursins
accordingtothescripturesandhewasseenofCephas,thenoftheTwelve,thenhewasseenbythe500
brethrenatonceofwhomthegreaterpartremainuntilthispresent.Jesusappearedtothetwelve?
WhichtwelvedidJesusappearto,Dr.Craig?BecauseatthatparticularpointintimeJudasIscariotwas
longdead.Therewereonlyelevenleft.Matthiaswaschosenatalaterpointintime.Paulhadnopersonal
knowledgeandheisdeliveringfirstofallwhathereceivedatJerusalemfromJamesandPeter.Sothelist
ofappearancesseemtobeinchronologicalorderforthewordsuptothatsuggestit.Itisnoteworthyto
mentionthatPauldoesnotmentionanyappearancetoMaryMagdaleneoranyotherwomannordoeshe
mentiontheappearancetoAnanias.NowthepointisthatPaulwouldnothaveadmittedtomentionthis
proofinsupportofthefactofresurrectionifhehadknownofit.Abizarretwisttoestablishthatfact.Sohe
saysthatifChristwasnotrisenthenourpreachingisinvainandyourfaithisinvain.Soitfollowsasa
matterofcoursethatJamesandPetermustalsohavebeenignorantoftheseparticularfacts.Whatdoes
Dr.Craigsayaboutthefortyorsocontradictionsthatexistintheresurrectionaccount?Icanpointthem
allout.DoesDr.Craigdenythatthesecontradictionsdoexist?Doeshesubscribetotheideaofthe
inerrancyoftheNewTestament?Whatdoeshehavetosayaboutthefactimportantlyenoughthatfor
exampleinMatthewandMarkthediscrepanciesregardingtheinstructionstothewomenarethatthere
weredirectedtoinformthedisciplesthatJesushadgonebeforethemtoGalileebutinLukethereisno
suchinjunctionatallandinJohnwefindnowordswhichcouldevenseemtoanswertothecommandin
MatthewandMark.Thepersonswhocametothesepulcheronthemorningoftheresurrectionwhenin
MarkMaryMagdaleneandsomeotherwoman,inMatthewonlythetwoMary's,inLukethetwoMary's
andalsosomeotherwoman.InJohnonlyMaryMagdalenetowhomhoweverPeterandthebeloved
discipleareadded.InLuke,Peteralonewhentothesepulcher.Thatparticularpassageseemstobe
spuriousandseemstobeinterpolatedtoharmonizewithPaul.
SoIdon'tthinkitisaredherringtointroducetheissueoftheresurrectionatthisparticularpointintime
whenwearedealingsolelywiththedivinityofChrist.Ifyouaresayingthattheresurrectionvindicates
theoreticalclaimsmadebyJesusbutthenyouaregoingbacktothewholeargumentwhichweraised
earlieronthatinthatcasewhywouldGodwanttoraisehimfromthedeadbecauseyouareconceding
thatJesusdiedasablasphemer.Youcannotnowsay,look,henevermadetheseblasphemerpoints.You
areconcedingthathediedasaparticularblasphemer.ItisquiteinterestingtonotethatDr.Craigadmits
thattheweakestpartofhishypothesisisthatitisadhocthatitassumesGodexists.Inotherwords,itis
notahistoricalhypothesis,itisnotanaturalistichypothesis.ItwouldbesoimpossibleforJesustobe
raisedbyGod.ItisonlyonthehypothesisthatGodexistscanyouthensubmittothehypothesisthatGod
wouldwanttoraiseJesusfromthedead.ThenwewouldwanttohaveaGodwhowouldwanttoraise
Jesusfromthedead.Butagainwegobacktotheissue:whywouldGodwanttoraisehimfromthedead?
WhywouldGodwanttoraiseablasphemer.
ItisinterestingtonotethatBartEhrmaninhisdiscussionaboutthesocalledblasphemersclaimsinhis
bookTheNewTestament(Ijusthavetoparaphrasehiscomments),hesaystheclaimswerenot
particularlyblasphemous.IfyoulookatthecontextoftheNewTestamentandindeedtheOldTestament
thiswordSonofGodhadnodivineconnotationtoit.InRomans8:14youreadtheexpressionforas
manyasareleadbythespiritofGodtheyarethesonsofGod.Inotherwords,everyTom,Dick,and
HarrywhofollowsthewillandplanofGodisagodlyperson.InthelanguageoftheJewheisasonof
God.InGenesis6:2itsays,whenthesonsofGodcameinuntothedaughtersofmen,andtheybare
childrentothem,thesamebecamemightymenwhichwereofold,menofrenown.Davidsays,Iwill
declarethedecree:theLordhathsaiduntome,ThouartmysonthisdayhaveIbegottenthee(Psalm
2:7).Infact,ifyoulookatmyparticularslideshere,Ephraimisdescribedasafirstborn.Adamis
describedasasonofGod.DaviddescribedasasonofGod.SoifthesonofGodwasablasphemous
claimwewouldfindthat...look,inancientJewishterminologythisisinfacthowJewishprophetsare
basicallyaddressed.Thereseemstobenoproblemwiththat.Isimplyaskedaquestion,showmea
particularpassagewhereJesussays,IamGodorwherehesaysWorshipme.Dr.Craigsayshe
doesn'thavetosaythat.Well,whynot?Whatwashetryingtohide?Washesoafraidofhisdivinity?Why
doeshegooutofhiswaytoemphasizetheopposite?WhydoeshegooutofhiswaytosaymyFatheris
greaterthanI,myFatherisgreaterthanall,IcanofmyownselfdonothingasIhearIjudgeandmy
judgmentisjust.Whydoeshedotheoppositeallthetimeineverysingleparticularpassage.
Inrespectoftheissueofpaganmythology,itisinterestingtonotethatyoufindSolInvictusforexample.
Dr.Craigsaidyoucannotappealtopaganmythologyortryandfindthoseparticularparallels.Butpeople
likeSolInvictus,thisancientsungod,Mithraism,lookattheseindividuals.Whenweretheyborn?Onthe
25thofDecember.Whendidtheydie?Whatmiraclesdidtheyperform?Infact,BartEhrmanmakes
referencetoanindividualcalledApolloniuswhopredatedJesuswhohadsimilarcharacteristicstothat
exhibitedbyJesus.
SoIthinkthatintherebuttalDr.CraighasnotansweredanyofthepointsthatIhadinitiallyraised.More
didhedealwiththemostimportantquestionaboutwhatcapacitydidJesusadoptwhenhediedonthe
cross.DidhebelieveinhumanfaithinGod'sparttoraisehimselfordidhehavetheinfallibledivine
knowledgethathewouldberesurrected?
Thankyou.
[14]1:19:21
WilliamLaneCraigSecondrebuttal
DR.CRAIG:[15]BeforeIreviewmypositivecase,letmerespondtothosequestionsthatMr.Ismailposed
againstthedeityofChrist.
Firsthesaysyouhaven'tprovidedamodelfortheincarnation.ButIdidprovideamodel.AndIusedthe
exampleoftheavatarasthemodelofsomeonewhoisonepersonthathastwocompletenatures.Now
hesaysbutinthatcaseJakeSullywasn'tthreepersonseventhoughhehadtwobodies.Right!Itisa
modeloftheincarnation,Mr.Ismail,notamodeloftheTrinity.Thatisnotthepoint.Itshowsthataperson
canbeonepersonwithtwonatureswhichhaveveryradicallydifferentproperties,andthatremovesallof
thechargesofincoherence.Now,Iamnotusedtodebatingthemoderatorasopposedtomyopponent
butsincehedidaskabouttheTrinityintheNewTestamentletmesaythattheTrinityisadoctrinewhich
codifiestheteachingoftheNewTestamentthatsaysthatJesusisdivine,theFatherisdivine,andthe
HolySpiritisdivine,butthatthesearenotthesameperson.Sotheyarethreepersonswhichareeach
divineandsharingthesamenature.ThatisimplicitintheteachingoftheNewTestament.
DidJesusofNazarethfacedeathwithahumanconsciousness?Yes,absolutely.Thatiswhyhesweat
dropsofbloodintheGardenofGethsemaneandneededtorelyuponthestrengthofhisFathertomeet
theterribletestofthecrucifixion.RememberhowIdifferentiatedinatheologicallysignificantwaybetween
thesubliminalinJesusandthewakingconsciousnessinJesuswhichispartofmymodelofthe
incarnation.
Thecriteriaofauthenticityhavebeenundisputedintonight'sdebate.Solet'sturntothoseradicalclaims
thatJesusmadethatareauthenticonthebasisofthosecriteria.NoticethatMr.Ismailneverdeniedthat
theapplicationofthesecriteriashowstheseclaimstobeauthentic.
First,Jesus'radicalselfconceptasthedivineSonofMan.Again,hereiteratesthepointwhydidn'tJesus
goaboutsayingIamGod?Whynot?Iexplainedthat.BecausetoJewishmindthatwouldbetosayI
amtheFatherandheisnottheFather,eventhoughheisdivine.SoheisLord,heisSonofMan,heis
theSonofGodinauniquesense,butheisnottheFather.
BartEhrmansaysthatitisnotblasphemoustosaythingsliketheSonofManwillcomeonthecloudsof
heaven.ThereasonthatBartEhrmandoesn'tthinkthatJesusblasphemedatthetrialitisreallyfunny
itisbecauseEhrmanthinksthatalthoughtheSonofMansayingsareauthenticJesuswastalkingabout
somebodyelse.SoEhrmanisabsolutelybaffledbythetrialscene.Hesayswhatisthematterwithsaying
youwillseetheSonofMancomingonthecloudsofheavenifthatisreferringtosomebodyotherthan
Jesus?Thatisnotblasphemous.SoEhrmancannotunderstandwhyJesusiscondemnedbythecouncil
ofthehighpriestsforblasphemy.HeevensaysonlyifJesuswereapplyingthistitletohimselfwouldthis
narrativemakesense.Right!Infact,EhrmanelsewhereinhisworkadmitsthatmanyoftheSonofMan
sayingsbyJesusareselfdesignations.SoEhrman'sviewisjusthopelesslyselfcontradictory.
WhataboutthepointthatthewordSonofGodcanoftenbeusedofnondivinebeings?Absolutelytrue.
Thatisabsolutelycorrect.ButthatiswhyIlaboredthepointofJesus'uniquenessclaimsinbeingthe
onlySonofGodinaspecialanduniquesensethatsethimapartfromotherHebrewkingsorprophets
oranyoneelse.Inparticular,wesawthatheclaimedtobetheSonofManprophesiedbytheprophet
Danielandthathasneverbeendeniedintonight'sdebate.WhatabouthisclaimstobetheSonofGod?
First,thereistheParableoftheWickedTenantsoftheVineyard.Mr.Ismailsaysbutinthisparablethe
ownerwasfoolish.NowallofusMuslimandChristianalikeoughttoagreethatisinsultingtoGodto
saythat.BecauseMuslimsalsoagreethatGodsentprophetafterprophetafterprophetintheOld
Testament,manyofwhomwerebeaten,rejected,andslain.Sothatisnotapointofdifferentiation
betweenus.Hesays,butthisparableisn'tauthentic.Ibegtodisagree.Mostscholarsdothinkitis
authentic.Justacoupleofpointsinthisregard.First,theabsenceoftheresurrectionoftheslainson
suggeststhatthisisnotaparablethatwasinventedinthelaterchurchwhichbelievedinJesus'
resurrection.Alsotheconcernoverwhowouldpossessthevineyardafteritwastakenfromthetenants
wasnotanissuefortheearlychurch.MoreovertheparablereallyreflectstheJewishcontextofabsentee
landlordsandtenantfarmersandthereforeisveryauthentictotheJewishmilieuinwhichJesuslivedand
spoke.ThatiswhymostscholarsthinkthatthisisanauthenticparableofJesus,anditteachesthatJesus
wastheonlybegottenSonofGod,unique,setapartfromalltheprophets,thefinalmessenger,andthat
meansbeforeMohammadthatGodhadsenttothenationofIsraelandtoEarthashisrevelation.
Mr.IsmaildidnotdenyMatthew11:27aboutnooneknowstheFatherexcepttheSon.Asforthetimeof
hisreturnhemerelyreiteratedthepointthatintheQur'anitsaysmenarehigherthantheangelsbecause
theyhavefreewill,butthatisirrelevanttowhatJesusmeantinhisfirstcenturycontextwhereheplaces
himselfabovemenandangelsandinproximitytotheFather.
Sowe'vegotverygoodgrounds,Ithink,forthinkingthatthehistoricalJesushadthisradicaldivinehuman
consciousness.
ThetrialandcrucifixionofJesustheonlythingMr.IsmailsaidhereisthatthismakesJesusa
blasphemer.But,Mr.Ismail,heisonlyablasphemerifhisclaimsarefalse!Right?Iftheyaretrue,then
theJewswerewrongincrucifyinghim.Godhasvindicatedthoseclaimsraisinghimfromthedead
showingthatheisnotablasphemerafterall.
Mr.IsmailthenbeginstorecurtothemythologicalstuffontheinternetlikeJesusbeingbornonthe
25thofDecember.Friends,theNewTestamentdoesn'tsayJesuswasbornonthe25thofDecember!So
thatcan'tbeaderivationintheNewTestamentfrommythology.ApolloniusofTyanaisn'tattesteduntilthe
3rdcenturyafterJesus.PhilostratuswhowrotetheLifeofApolloniuswastryingtoinventacounter
ChristianfiguresothatpagansatthattimecouldhaveacompetitortoJesuswhenChristianitywas
beginningtoexertitselfovertheempire.Sothosearen'tinanywayrefutationsofJesus'historicaltrial
andcrucifixion,whichis,asIsaid,everybodywhoisnotaMuslimacceptsashistorical.
Finally,whatabouttheresurrectionofJesus?Mr.IsmailsayswhywouldGodraisehim?I'veansweredit.
Tovindicatehisclaimsandrevealhisidentity.Hesaystherearemanycontradictionsintheresurrection
narratives.Wearenotheretodebatebiblicalinerrancy.ThefourfactsasIstatedthemtonightrepresent
thecoreofthosenarrativeswhichareagreeduponbyhistoricalscholarsandtheyaresufficientto
supporttheinferencetotheresurrection.
HesaysyourargumentassumesthatGodexists.Ofcourse!Webothagreeonthat.Muslimsand
ChristiansagreethatGodexists.Thequestionis:hasGodrevealedhimselfspeciallyinJesusoris
MohammadtherealmessengerofGod?IthinkwehavegoodgroundsforbelievingitisJesus.
HesaidwhichtwelvedidJesusreferto?ItwasthetitleofthegroupTheTwelve.IntheUnitedStateswe
haveanathleticcorecalledTheBigTen,buttherearemorethantenuniversitiesintheBigTen.Itis
becausetheyoriginallyhadtenuniversitiesinitandthetitlehasstuckwithit.Similarly,TheTwelveisthe
titleofthegroupeventhoughJudashadnowapostatized.
Finally,hesaysthatthisagainwouldprovethatJesuswasablasphemerwhoGodhadraised.Ithinknot
atall.WhatitshowsisthatJesuswaswronglycrucified,andthathewaswhoheclaimedtobe,and
thereforewecanplaceourfaithinhimwithconfidenceandassurancethatheisGod'suniqueSonand
theultimaterevelationofGodtomankind.
[15]1:33:08
YusufIsmailSecondrebuttal
MR.ISMAIL:[16]Thankyouforthat,Mr.Chairman.IwishIhadanothersixteenminutestorespondto
thosetwoquestionsbecauseitcouldtakemeatleasttenminutes.Ormaybeevenaminutedepending
onhowitwillgo.ItisinterestingtonotethatourmoderatoraskedDr.Craigwhereisthereevidenceofthe
TrinityintheNewTestament?Isuggestedaparticularpassage,Fortherearethreethatbearrecordin
heaven,theFather,theWord,andtheHolySpirit:andthesethreeareone(1John5:7,KJV).Didyounot
recognizethatDr.Craig?IsthatinyourparticularBible?Isthatpassagethere?Fortherearethreethat
bearrecordinheaven,theFather,theWord,andtheHolySpirit:andthesethreeareoneitisinmy
authorizedKingJamesVersionifIopenituphere.Butithasbeenthrownoutasafabricationinalmost
everysinglemodernBibletranslationthatexists.TheKingJamesVersionsaysYettheKingJames
Versionhasgreatdefects.Youfind32scholarsofthehighesteminencebackedby50different
cooperatingdenominationswhosaidthisparticularversewasafabricationandasafabricationthey
removedit.ThisisafoundationofChristiandomtheTrinity.Itisnotthere.ThefirstepistleofJohn
chapter5,verse7.YetmanymoderndaypastorsandChristianscholarsdonotinfactinformtheir
congregation.Why?
RegardingtheactualissueaboutJesusbeingmadetheSonofGodandbeingregardedasabegotten
SonofGod,whatdoyouactuallyunderstand?WhatdoyoumeanwhenyousayGodbegetsaSon?In
theQur'an,theQur'ancondemnsthisnotionaboutGodliterallybegettingason.Becausebegettingis
ananimalact.Itbelongstotheloweranimalfunctionsofsex.Andsoasaresultofthat,Godcannot
literallybegetason,sotheQur'ancondemnsthatparticularconnotation.AsIpointedout,Dr.Craignever
disputedthepointaboutthefactthatthewordinGreekismonogenesnotunigenitusinLatin.Asa
resultofthat,mostofthemajortranslationshavealsothrownoutthatwordbegottenasafabrication.
Therefore,thatwordJesusistheonlybegottenSonofGodorForGodsolovetheworldhegavehis
onlybegottenSonisnolongerthere.Ithasbeenthrownoutasaninterpolation.Itisnotinanymajor
Bibletranslation.Wehaveaproblemhere.YousaythatJesusisthebegottenSonofGod.Well,Ihavea
bitofadilemmatherebecauseifyoubelievethatJesusisthebegottenSonofGodwe'vegothere
genealogies.I'vegotthegenealogyofJesusChristaccordingtoMatthew.I'vegotanothergenealogyof
JesusChristaccordingtoLuke.Lookatthis.Lookatthis,Dr.Craig.ContradictoryaccountsthatnoBible
scholarintheworldtodaycaninfactreconcile.SoJesusisthebegottenSonofGodthenwhyinventa
genealogyforhim?
RegardingtherequestbymylearnedmoderatoraboutcommentingonJohn10:33,itisimportanttonote
thateverytimethatthereareallegationsoraccusationsaboutJesusbeingreferredtoasGod,whatdoes
hedo?Hegoesoutofhiswaytorebuttheseparticularallegations.InrespectofJohn10:33,TheJews
answeredhim,'Itisnotforagoodworkthatwestoneyoubutforblasphemybecauseyou,beingaman,
makeyourselfGod.'Imaginethat?WhatdoesJesussaytothem?Doeshesay,WellIhavearightto
makethatclaimbecauseIamGod?Hesays,no,Isitnotwritteninyourlaw?Isaidyearegods.He
wasquotingfromchapter82ofthebookofPsalm.Inotherwords,ifhe,Godalmighty,calledthemgods
untowhomthewordofGodcamethentheScripturecannotbebroken.InotherwordsifprophetsofGod
werecalledgodsintheOldTestament,menlikeyouandmewillcallgods,thenwhydoyoutake
exceptionwhentheonlyclaimIammakingisthatIamasonofGod.Asoneparticularscholaroncesaid,
GodhasgotsonsbythetensintheNewTestamentandtheOldTestament.SoIdon'tseeapointin
respecttothat.
Theotherissueisthis.Ifonehastolook,forexample,atthequotationsofGalatians3:13,itstatesclearly
andcategoricallyJesusdiedasacurse.Soinotherwordsifyouaresayingheneverdiedasacurse,he
wasn'tblaspheming,thenyouaregoingagainstyourparticularscripture.Theotherpointisthis.Again
andagain,Jesusisgoingandemphasizinghishumanity.Forexample,theissueabouttheforgivenessof
sins.Andtheyquestionhim,Howcanyouforgivesins?AreyouGod?WhatdoesJesussaytothem?
Whydosuchthoughtsariseinyourmind?Whichisbettertotellamanwhoisparalyzed,getupand
walkaway?Ortotellamanwhoisparalyzedyoursinsareforgiven?WhataboutJohn1:1inthe
beginningwastheWordandtheWordwaswithGodandtheWordwasGod.Sotheysay,look,onthis
particularbasisJesuswasdivine.TheWordwasdivine.TheWordwasmadeflesh.Itisinterestingthatif
yougototheGreek,andDr.CraigknowsGreekbetterthananyofus,inactualfactitis[Greek].What
doesitsay?IfyouforexampleweretolookattheJournalofPublicLiterature,vol.92,Philadelphia,such
clausesastheoneinJohn1:1withananarthrouspredicateprecedingtheverbareprimarilyqualitative
inmeaning.TheyindicatethattheLogoshassomekindofdivinenature.Soinotherwords,basicallywas
madeGodlikesimilartothepassagewhereyou'dfindintheOldTestamentwhereGodtellsMosesI
willmaketheeaGoduntoPharaohandAaronthybrothershallbethyprophet.
ThepointIwanttoemphasizeattheendisthisinrespectoftheissueoftheTrinityweallhavea
particularbelief.WhenyousayinthenameoftheFatheroryoubasicallysayaccordingtocatechism
thattheFatherisGod,theSonisGod,andtheHolySpiritisGod(theyarenotthreeGodsbutoneGod)
theFatherisalmighty,theSonisalmighty,andtheHolySpiritisalmighty,buttheyarenotthreeAlmighties
butoneAlmightytheFatherisaperson,theSonisaperson,andtheHolySpiritisaperson,buttheyare
notthreepersonsbuttheyaremanifestinonedivineGodhead.Whatareyousaying?Whatareyou
basicallyspeaking?WhenyousayinthenameoftheFatheryouhaveacertainmentalpictureofthat
lovingFatherinheaven.Millionsoftimesbiggerthanusbutsomethinglikeaman,alovingfatherin
heaven.WhenyousayinthenameoftheSonwehaveacertainmentalpictureofthatindividualdrawn
hereblueeyes,handsomefeatures.WhenyouaresayinginthenameoftheHolySpirit,somethingthat
camedowntoJesuswhenJohntheBaptistwasbaptizingJesusintheriverJordan.Therearethree
distinctmentalpicturesinyourmind.Sohardasyoumaytry,youwillneverbeabletosuperimposethem
andsaythattheyareone.ButwhenIaskhowmanydoyousee,yousayyouseeone.Thatisnot
actuallyspeakingliterally,thatisnotactuallybeingfaithfultoScripture.InActs2:22,YemenofIsrael,
JesusofNazareth,amanapprovedofGodamongyoubymiraclesandwondersandsignswhichGoddid
byhimorthroughhimasyouyourselvesalsoknow.Againandagainandagain,Jesusisemphasizing
hishumanity.Infact,hegoesoutofhiswaytosuggestthatheisnotGod.WhentheJewsmaketheir
falseallegationsagainsthimhegoestorebutthoseallegationsateverysingleparticularjuncture.So
withoutfurtherado,Iwouldliketosaythatagainweseeweakargumentsbeingpresentedwhichare
unsubstantiatedandwhichagaingoagainsttheScripture.ItisinterestingtonotethatDr.Craighasonly
givenustwoquotationsandthosetwoquotationsaredecontextualized.Youcouldn'tshowmeinmore
than45minutesor1hourasinglepassagewhereJesussaysthatheisGodorwherehesaysworship
me.Thankyou.
[16]1:43:30
WilliamLaneCraigRebuttal
DR.CRAIG:[17]IwasdisappointedthatinMr.Ismail'slastspeech,hedecidedtodeserttheissuesthat
havebeenonthetablethiseveningandinsteadbeginthrowingredmeattotheMuslimpartisansinthe
audiencetonight.ThoseofyouwhoareMuslimsandwhoapplaudedthepointshewasmakingreally
oughttobeveryashamedofyourselvesbecausethosearenottheissuestonight.Wearenothereto
debatebiblicalinerrancy,thegenealogiesofJesus,orwhetherornottheKingJamesVersionrepresents
theoriginalautographsoftheNewTestament.Thosearesillypoints.Whatwearetalkingabouthereis
theselfunderstandingofthismanJesusofNazareththatyouyourselfrecognizetobeagreatprophet
andthereforewhomyoumustbelieveastowhathetaught,andthenwhetherornotGodraisedthatman
fromthedeadtovindicatethoseclaims.
Inhislastspeech,Mr.IsmailmadeagreatdealofcertainpassagesintheNewTestamentsuchasGod's
onlybegottenSonandsoforth.LetmesimplyreadtoyousomeofthepassagesintheNewTestament
thatrefertoJesusashotheos,asGod.
John1:18theonlyGodwhoisinthebosomoftheFatherhasmadehimknown
John20:28myLordandmyGod
Romans9:5ChristwhoisGodoverall
Titus2:13ourgreatGodandsaviorJesusChrist
Hebrews1:18oftheSonhesays,YourthroneoGodisforeverandever
2Peter1:1ourGodandsaviorJesusChrist
1John5:20JesusChristwhoisthetrueGodandeternallife
ThetestimonyoftheNewTestamentisthatJesusisdivine.HeisGod.
WhatabouttheseTrinitarianpassages?TheNewTestamentisrepletewithmultitudesoftrinitarian
passages.Theyarenotdependentupontheversein1Johnthathequoted.Forexample,consider2
Corinthians13:14ThegraceoftheLordJesusChristandtheloveofGodandthecommunionofthe
HolyGhostbewithyouall.TheretheLordJesusChrist,GodtheFather,andtheHolySpiritarereferred
tointhesameverse.OverandoveragaintheNewTestamentaffirmsthedeityoftheFather,theSon,
andtheHolySpiritandyettheirpersonaldistinctnesswhichiscodifiedinthedoctrineoftheTrinity.
Mr.IsmaildroppedallofhisobjectionstothemodelIpresentedoftheincarnationwhichislogically
coherentandunderstandable.Hehasneverdisputedthecriteriaofauthenticity.AsforJesus'radicalself
concept,heisreducedtocomplainingaboutthenumberofpassagesIquoted.ThereasonIquotedfour
passagesandstakedmyclaimonthatissowecanhaveanindepthintelligentdiscussionofthese
passagesandnotjusthaveabarrageoftextswhichwouldbeeasytodobutwouldnotbeprofitable.He
hasneverbeenabletorefutethepointthatthesepassagesrevealJesusofNazareth'sdivinehumanself
understandingasDaniel'sSonofMancomingonthecloudsofheavenandastheSonofGodwhois
uniqueandsetapartastheonlyrevelationoftheFather.
ThetrialandcrucifixionofJesusattestednotonlybiblicallybutinextrabiblicalsourceshasgone
unrefuted.
Finally,theevidencefortheburial,emptytomb,andappearances,andtheoriginoftheChristianfaith
weredroppedinthatlastspeech.
Iwanttoconcludejustwithapersonalword.Imyselfwasn'traisedinaChristianhomebutIbegantoask
thebigquestionsinlifewhenIbecameateenager.ThegirlwhosatinfrontofmeinmyGermanclass
whowasaradiantChristiantoldmeabouttheloveofGodthroughJesusChrist.IpickeduptheNew
TestamentandIbegantoreadtheGospelsforthefirsttimeinmylife.AsIdidIwasabsolutelycaptivated
bythepersonJesusofNazareth.Therewasaringoftruthaboutthisman'steachingthatIcouldnot
deny.Therewasanauthenticityabouthislifethatwasjustundeniable.Well,tomakealongstoryshort,
afteraboutsixmonthsofthemostintensesoulsearchingIjustcametotheendofmyropeandIgavemy
lifetoChrist.Hisloveandpresencefloodedintomylife.Iexperiencedaspiritualrebirthinside.God
becamealivingrealitytomearealitythatI'vewalkedwithnowdaybyday,yearbyyear,forover40
years.ThatisbasicallywhyIamhereinSouthAfricatonightbecauseIlovetosharethisgoodnewsof
Jesus'loveforyouandthepossibilityofyourknowingGodthroughJesusChrist.SoifyouareaMuslim
tonightandyou'vebeenseekingforGodbutGodseemsdistantandunapproachabletoyouandunreal,
yousenseyourguiltandyourunforgivensin,IwanttoencourageyoutodowhatIdid.GetaNew
Testament,begintoreadtheGospels,andaskyourself,Coulditreallybetrue?Couldthismanbenot
onlyaprophetbornofavirgin,onewhodidmiraclesasIalreadybelieve?Coulditbemorethanthat?
CoulditbethedivineSonofGodcometoEarthforme,todieonthecrossformysin,thatImightbe
reconciledtoGodtheFather.IbelievethathewasandIthinkifyouwilllookforitwithanopenmindand
anopenheartitcanchangeyourlifejustasitchangedmine.
[17]1:52:27
YusufIsmailRebuttal
MR.ISMAIL:[18]Thankyouforthatenlighteninglastexperientialthatyougaveus,Dr.Craig.Itisalso
goodImetaHindufriendofminesometimebackthatgavemeasimilarexperiencethathehad.
We'dliketoaskourChristianfriendswhoJesuswaswhenhewassupposedtobedyingonthecross
whenhecriedout,MyGod!MyGod!Whyhaveyouforsakenme?Perhapsyouwillsayit'sthehuman
partofJesus.ButifyousaythattheninthatcaseJesuswasnottheperfectsacrifice,accordingtothe
doctrineofpropitiation.AsaccordingtotheChristiandoctrine,allmenarebornwithoriginalsinbecause
ofAdamandEve.Soifhewasbornwithoutthesinthenhewouldbelessthanmanandthereforehe
couldnotrelatetotemptationandsuffering.Youseehowonceyoushootoneselfinthefootanduptothis
pointDr.Craighasnotansweredthoseparticular...hehastotallyevadedthosetwoissues.Igaveyou
simpleexamplestheissueofJesusandthefigtreeandtheissueofJesusdying.Dr.Craiginhistimein
hisrebuttalhassimplyasifInevermentionedthosestatementsatall.Itisimportanttonotethatthe
greatestcommandmentintheBibleandtheQur'anifwewanttounderstanditasemphasizedbyJesus
whenascribecomestoJesusandasksJesuswhatisthemostimportantofallcommandments,Jesus
repeatswordforwordwhatMosessaidathousandyearsbefore[Hebrew]HereoIsrael,theLordour
God,theLordisone.HewasnotoneinaTrinity.AndheusedthewordechadwhichMosesuseda
thousandyearsbefore.SixhundredyearslaterwhenaChristiandeputationfromNajrancometoMedian
theyspendthreedaysinamosque,theysleepinamosque,andoveraperiodoftimetheyquestionthe
prophettheologicallyandtheyaskhim,Mohammad,whatisyourconceptofGod?AndMohammadis
madetoreply[Arab]SayheisGod,theoneandonly.Ifyouweretolookatechadandahadlinguistically
theyareidentical.SointhelineoftheprophetictraditiontheprophetMohammadwascontinuingthe
samemessagethatwaspreachedfromDavid,Solomon,Moses,Abraham,andJesusandbringingitto
finality.Therewasnodistinctioninanyofthat.Itislaterinventions,idiosyncrasies,thatchangedwhat
peoplewanttoread.
SoitisimportantthatifJesusknewthatGodisaTrinitywhydidhenotsayso?Ifyoutakeallthewordsof
JesusinaredletterBibleandyoucutoffalltheduplicationsyouwouldn'tevenbeabletospelloutthe
wordTrinity.WhydidhenotsaythatGodisoneinthreeorthreeinone?Insteadhedeclaredagainand
againthatGodisonefullstop.TrueimitatorsofJesuswouldimitatehimalsointhedeclarationofGod's
oneness.TheywillnotaddthreewhereJesusneversaidit.Doessalvationdependonthiscommand?
Yes,saystheBible.JesusmakesthisclearwhenanothermanapproachedJesustolearnfromhim.The
manfellonhiskneesandsaid,Goodmaster,whatgoodthingshallIdotoinheriteternallife?Jesus
says,Whycallme'good?'ThereisonlyonegoodandthatisGodalone.SobysosayingJesusmadea
cleardistinctionbetweenhimselfandbetweenothers.
Itisinterestingtonote,andIwouldsayonapositivenotetomyfellowChristians,thataccordingto
ShabbirAkhtarinhisbookTheFinalImperative(aChristiantheologianofliberation),hesaysthatthere
arethreeconditionsforbeingacceptedasaChristian.One,beliefintheexistenceofoneGod,
acceptanceoftheethicalandreligiousauthorityofthehistoricalpersonofJesusChrist,andlastlya
commitmenttoviewingthelifeofJesusasdisclosureandhumanexemplificationofthemoralexcellence
ofdeity.SuchthattheimitationofJesus'behaviorisalreadyamoralactioninthe[believer's]life.Ifweare
toacceptthatthatistheessenceofChristianityinotherwords,ifyouwantustoacceptthat,youcan
qualifybeingaChristianwithoutnecessarilyacceptingthedivinityofChristthatiswhattheAnglican
bishopshavedone.TheysayitisnolongeraconditiontobeingaChristiantosimplyacceptingthedivinity
ofChrist.ItisbecomingaminorityviewintheChristianworld,brothers.Itisnotamajorityview,itisa
minorityview.LookattheAnglicanbishops,lookatthebiblicalscholars,lookattheownBible,lookatyour
text.WheredoIseeanykindofevidenceaboutJesusclaimingdivinity?Againandagainandagainhe
emphasizesthepointoftheonenessofGod,abouttheseparationbetweenhimandGod.Againherebuts
theallegationsoftheJewswhentheymakeaccusationsofblasphemyagainsthim.Ashesaid,seeing
theyseenot,andhearingtheyhearnot.Willtheythennotunderstand?Can'tweseethetruth?Can'twe
seewhatwereadintheNewTestamentandindeedintheOldTestament?Whereistheevidencethata
mancanbecomeGodwhenweheartheexpressionGodisnotamanthatheshouldlie,neithertheSon
ofManthatheshouldrepent.Thankyouforthat,andIhopewecancontinuethediscussioninthis
stimulatingexercise.Godblessyou.
[18]1:58:24
Q&A
MODERATOR:[19]Thankyouverymuch,Mr.Ismail.Ithinkitiscomingdowntothisquestionofwhether
Jesusisalivetoday.Iwoulddistillitinthatway,Ithink,ifIwassittingasajudge.Thatisthebasicissue.
ThatiswhereIthinkyoucanhelpusfromthefloor.YouhaveanypersonalexperiencelikethatofDr.
Craig'syoumaywanttotellus.
[ModeratorpresentssomelogisticsregardingtheQ&A]
QUESTION:[20]Mr.Ismail,myquestionhastodowithyourclaimsconcerningmythology.Howwouldyou
dealwithasimilaraccusationlaunchedtowardIslam.Thatis,canwenotargueunderthesame
conditionsthatIslamissimplyderivativeoftheGnosticgospelstheinfancygospelssincetheyarea
lateaddition.Howdowereconcilethatwiththeclaims.IthinkthatyouraccusationsagainstChristianity
canalsobeturnedagainstIslam.
MR.ISMAIL:IthinktheGospelofThomasDr.Craigcancorrectmeonthatpointyoufindpassages
thatrefertoJesusassaultingpeople.Jesusbehavinginmannerswhichbasicallycontradicthisentire
propheticbehaviororpatternsonEarth.WhattheQur'anwoulddoisbasically...ifyoufind,forexample,
parallelsexistingintheGnosticgospelsthenIwould,forsimilarreasons,suggestthathowdoyou
reconcilethefactthatintheexistingOldTestamentandindeedtheNewTestamentyoufind,forexample,
parallelswiththeEpicsofGilgameshandtheCodeofHammurabiwithancienttexts.Manyparticular
scholarsmoderndayscholarswouldsuggestthatsomeoftheseparticularwritingscannotentirelybe
rejected.ThatiswhyeventheexistingGospelsdrawsomeoftheirinformationandmaterialfromthat.In
respectoftheissueofthequotationsgivenbyDr.CraigpertainingtothepassagesfoundinSura
Maryam,thoseparticularpassagesareusedtoconveycertainmoralpoints,certainmoralsystems.For
example,hisfirstmiracleintheQur'anwherehebasicallydefendsthefalseaccusationsagainsthis
mother.ThefirstmiracleintheBibleisyoufindhim,forexample,turningwaterintowine.Moreoftenthan
notyoufindsometimesevenfromtheQur'anicpointofviewthesepassagesaretheretoconveycertain
moralpointsandvaluesystems.ButIdon'thaveanykindofcriteriaonecannotjustsimplyreject
passagesjustfromthebasisthattheycomefromtheGnosticgospels.WhendidtheNewTestament
come?WhenwasthefirstearliestdatedNewTestament?Itwasinthe8thcentury.
DR.CRAIG:ThepointthatIwasmakingtherewasthatwhenyoucomparetheQur'antotheNew
TestamentasahistoricalsourceforthelifeofJesus,itisjustincomparablypoorer.Itcomes600years
aftertheeventwrittenbyamanlivinginArabiawhohadnoindependentsourceofhistoricalinformation
andheunwittinglypicksupthesedemonstrablylegendarystoriesfromtheapocryphalgospels.The
Qur'andoesn'tsomuchcorrecttheinfancygospelofThomasasitsimplyexcerptsfromitandrepeats
thesemiraclestoriesabouttheboyJesusthinkingthatthesearehistoricalandnotknowingthatinfact
thesearelegendaryforgeriesthatarosetwoorthreehundredyearsafterChrist.ThatwasthepointIwas
making.
QUESTION:[21]Dr.Craig,IwouldliketoknowifJesuswasaJewwhendidhebecomeaChristian?
DR.CRAIG:HeneverbecameaChristian!JesuswasJewishthroughandthrough.Allthediscipleswere
Jewish.TheearlyChristianitywasJewish.Itwasn'tuntilinthecityofAntiochthatpeoplecalledthese
MessianicJewsChristians.Whatdoesthatmean?ChrististheGreekwordforMessiah.Sotheywere
calledMessianicsMessianicfollowersofJesus.ManyJewstodayIwasjustinIsraellastyearcall
themselvestheJewishequivalent.TheycallthemselvesMessianics.SoChristianityisfromitsearliest
rootsJewishrightthroughandthrough.ButtheRabbinicalJewseventuallyrejectedtheseMessianicsand
saidyoucan'tbepartofthesynagogueandtheyanathematizedthemandkickedthemout.I,inasense,
considermyselfmoreJewishthanmanymoderndayethnicJewswhoareatheistsoragnosticsanddon't
believeinGod.
MR.ISMAIL:InrespecttotheissueofChristians,itisinterestingtonotethatinActs11:26,whenthe
disciplesarecalledChristiansfirstinAntioch,thattermChristianisusedasalabelofabuse.Theseare
Christians.Itisalabelofabuse.Readthecontext.ThepointisthatthisisadistinctionbetweenIslamand
Christianity.WhileIslamandMuslimisnotagenericterm,itmeanspeaceandquietsubmissiontothe
willofGod,Christianityisnotagenericterm.Itisalabel.IfJesuswashereamongushewouldn't
recognizethetermChristiannorwouldherecognizethetermJesusbecausehewasnotaGreek
speakingJew.HespokeAramaic.Soitgoesbacktotheissuethatwedon'tevenhavetheoriginalwords
ofJesusnordoweinfacthavehisoriginalsayings,andthatChristianisalabel.
QUESTION:[22]Itisnotreallyaquestionbutmoreofageneralstatementtoallunbelieversorpeoplethat
don'tbelieveinJesus.BasicallyamodelfortheTrinity,Ibelieve,canbeseeninnatureitself.Formethe
simplewayforourmindsistoputtheTrinityintocontextiswatervapor,ice,andwater.Allthree.When
youseewatervaporwhatdoyousee?Water.Whenyouseeice,whatdoyousee?Water.Whenyousee
water,whatdoyousee?Water.ItisamodelIamproposingtoyou.
MR.ISMAIL:Ithinkitisimportantthatwhenyoumakecommentsyoushouldn'tshootyourselfinthefoot.
IfIhavethreebowlsofclayandIpressthemtogetherintoonebowlthentheybecomeone.Butnowitis
impossibletoretrieveyouroriginalthreeexactlyastheywereoriginally.Bycommonanalogy,ifyousay
water,waterspecificallyice,liquidandsteam,theysaywaterisonewiththreestatesorthreeformsso
GodAlmightyisthreestates.Onthefaceofit,itmightappeartobeacompellingargument.IfIhavea
cupofwaterwhichcanbecomesteam,itcanbecomeliquidoritcanbecomeicethenitisnotpossiblefor
metodrinktheliquidwhiletheiceandsteamremaininsidetheglass.Itisnotfurtherpossibleforthe
liquidtobeseechtheicetosaveitfrombeingdrunkwhiletheicestayedasafedistanceawayandwas
notitselfdrunk.Inasimilarmanner,ifGod,Jesus,andtheHolyGhostareallmerelythreepersonalities
orthreestatesforonebeingthenitisnotpossibleforonepersonalityofGodtodiewhiletheothertwo
remainedasafedistanceawayunharmedbydeath.
DR.CRAIG:WhatthoseofyouwhojustapplaudedthatpointneedtounderstandisthatJesusdidn'tdie
inhisdivinenaturehediedinhishumannature.Sothatisnotaproblem.Actually,Idon'tlikethemodel.
Idon'tthinkitisagoodmodel.Itseemstomethatthatteachesmodalismwhichistheideathatthe
Father,Son,andSpiritaremodesofthesamesubstance.Butitisnotagoodmodelforthreepersonsin
onebeing.Now,IhavebeentoldbyachemistthatitcanbeagoodmodelfortheTrinitybecausethereis
apparentlysomethinginchemistrycalledthetriplepointwherehesaysthatH2Ocanexistsimultaneously
assteam,water,andice.NowIhaven'tcheckedthisoutbutthoseofyouwhoareinterestedmightlook
intothechemistryofthesocalledtriplepointinphysicstoseeifwhetherthatispossible.Inthatcase,I
thinkitwouldbecomeagoodmodelbutbarringthatitseemstomethatitteachesmodalismratherthan
orthodoxTrinitarianism.
QUESTION:[inaudiblehedidn'treallyhaveaquestion]
QUESTION:[23]MineisaquestiontobothDr.CraigandMr.Ismailandreallytoallofus.WhattonightI
wasworriedaboutatthebeginningbutitmademethinkaboutandchallengeyouthesignificantofthis
eveningisgoingtobeseeninthewaywetalkaboutwhathappenedtonighttomorrow,thewaywetalk
aboutittomorrowandthenextday.WhatdoesitshowaboutourunderstandingofGodinthewaywewill
talkaboutit?TomeIwaswonderingdoesitshowaGoddistantandwantingtowinandscorepointsand
scorecheappointsordoesitshowinthewaywerespondtothiseveningaGodwhoislovingand
serving?
DR.CRAIG:IwouldjustsaythatIsecondyourconcernandIhopethatmyclosingstatementmadeit
evidentthatIamnotherejusttowincheapdebatingpointsbutthatIamheretoproclaimthegoodnews
oftheGospelandtheloveofGod.
MR.ISMAIL:Iwouldagreewiththatinprinciplethatthedebateshouldnotberelegatedtosimplycheap
polemics.WhatIwouldappealtomyChristianbrethrenasIwouldsuggestthatDr.Craigappealstothe
ChristianaudienceandindeedtheMuslimaudienceisreadtheNewTestament.LookintotheNew
TestamentandseewhetherJesusinfactreallymakestheseparticularclaims.Becausethemoreand
morethatyoureadit,themoreandmoreyoucometothediscoverythathegoesontoemphasizethat
heishumanandthereisoneGod.IfthisistheonlydefiningfactorbetweenChristianityandIslamthen
thereisnoreasonwhyweasMuslimsandChristianscancometogetheronacommonplatforminthe
worshipofonetrueGod.
MODERATOR:[24]Ifthatisright,whydidheallowpeopletofalldownandworshiphim.Wouldyouliketo
commentonthat?
MR.ISMAIL:Isthataquestionbythemoderator?[laughter]Themoderatorasksthequestion,What
aboutpeopleworshipingJesus?ItisinterestingtonotethatwhenyoulookattheGreekNewTestament
thewordinGreekisprosekunesanwhichisderivedfromtherootwordproskuneo.AccordingtoStrong's
Concordance,manybiblicaltranslations,andindeedthedictionaries,itwouldtellyouitmeanstokisslike
adoglickinghismaster'shand.WhatyoubasicallyfindwhenyoulookatsimilarpassagesintheGreek
Septuagint,wheretheGreekwordprosekunesanappearsthenyou'dfind,forexample,passageswhich
arenottranslatedasworshipbutwhereitalternativelyisrenderedasfallingdownbeforeyou.For
example,1Samuel25:2324itspeaksaboutAbigail.ShesawDavid,dismountedtheass,andshefell
downbeforehim.Elisha,shewentoutandshewentandfellatElisha'sfeet.Joseph'sbrethrenwent
outsideandfellbeforehisfeet.IntheGreekSeptuagintthewordisprosekunesan.Thepointismost
moderntranslatorsoftheNewTestament,particularlyintheGospelofMatthew,whereyoufindtheword
worshipusedtheygiveyoualternativerenderingasmeaningbowingdownbeforeyou,fallingatyour
feet.Infact,accordingtoMerriamWebsterCollegiateDictionarytheysaidthewordcouldbasicallymean
torespect,toreverence,andtoadore.AndevenamongMuslimstoday,you'llfindmanyMuslimsgoingto
themausoleumsandbowingdownbeforemanysaints.Theywouldtellyoutheyarenotworshipingthe
deadsaint,[itisaculturalpractice].Similarly,fromthebiblicalpointofviewyoufindthesesamepassages
wherewearetoldthatthepeopleworshipedJesus,therearealternativerenderingstothatinother
Gospelswhereitsimplyistranslatedasfallingdownbeforehim.
DR.CRAIG:Proskuneomeanstoprostrateoneselfinadoration.Thecontextwouldbekeyto
understandinghowitisusedinthesenseofworshiporjustpayinghomage.OneofthepassagesI
quotedisJohn20:28whereThomasfallsdownbeforeJesusandsaysMyLordandMyGod!Heuses
thewordsLordandGodofJesus.AndJesusdoesn'trebukeThomas.Hesays,Thomas,haveyou
believedbecauseyouhaveseenme?Blessedarethosewhobelievewithouthavingseen.SoIthinkthe
moderator'spointiscorrect.ItisJesus'reactiontothewaypeopleworshiphimthatindicatesthatthis
mandidn'tthinkofhimselfasamerehumanbeing.Tosanctionthatkindofactivitywouldindeedbe
idolatrous.
QUESTION:[25]Mr.Ismail,ofalltheQur'anictextsIhavehere,andIamwillingtosubmitit,Iwanttolimit
myselftochapter4oftheQur'anverse171wherehesaysJesusChrististhespiritofGod,theWordof
God,andalsoMessiah.Thistomewouldbedifficultifsomeonewouldseparateyou,Mr.Ismail,inWord,
Spirit,Iamsurewewouldn'twanttoseehowyouwouldlooklike.Therefore,Iknowthatyoudon'twant
to[inaudible]Qur'an4:171.Notonlythat,ifGodistheonlyonethatcansave,andJesusChrististheonly
onethatistheMessiah,whywouldn'twebaptize[inaudible]?
MR.ISMAIL:Thankyouforthatbrother.Infact,thequotationSura4:171actuallygoesagainstwhatyou
aretryingtoimplytotheaudience.Whatdoesitsayhere?LookatSura4:171.ItsaysOpeopleofthe
bookitisaddressingyou,sir.ItsaysOpeopleofthebook,commitnoexcessinyourreligionnorsay
ofGodexceptthetruth.ChristJesusSonofMarywasnomorethananapostleofGod.Inotherwordsit
wassayingthathewasnotGod.SoIcan'tseehowyouareusingthatpassagetoprovethathewas
divine.ItsaysChristJesustheSonofMarywasnomorethananapostleofGodandhiswordwhich
proceededfromGod.WhenwespeakofJesusbeingthewordofGodwebelievethateachandevery
singlehumanbeingisawordofGod.Why?BecauseintheQur'anthereisaproclamationwhichsays
[Arabic]beanditis.Itisbythewill,thepower,andthewordofGodthateachandeverysinglehuman
beingliveshereandtosayJesuswasthewordofGodthenhewouldbenodifferentfromus.Regarding
theaspectofJesusbeingtheMessiahandwhydon'tweaccepthimasGodwell,whatdoyousayabout
thefactthatintheOldTestamentyoufindinIsaiah45:1GodtellsDavidThussaidtohisanointed
messiahCyrus(apagan)withyourrighthandshallyousubduenations.AndyoufindGod
sends[inaudible],David,Solomon.Theyareallreferredtoasmessiah.SothefactthatJesuswasa
messiahsimplymeansthathewasanointedorconsecratedtoaparticularposition.Butitinnoway
implieshewasGod.InfactinJohn'sGospel10:33,onceJesusrefutestheallegationsthathewas
ambiguousinrespecttohisclaimstobeingtheMessiah,thentheymakethesecondallegationthatheis
claimingtobedivine.Thenhegoesontorebutthatparticularallegationaswell.Sotheverseyouare
quotinggoesagainstyourinitialpresuppositions.
DR.CRAIG:IagreethattheQur'andoesnotteachthedivinityofJesus.Ijustthinkthatitismistakeninso
doing.ThatiswhyoneofthereasonsIdon't'regardtheQur'anasarevelationfromGodbecauseIthink
ithasgotitwrongaboutJesus.Inparticular,ithasgotitwrongaboutthecrucifixion.TheQur'ansaysthey
didnotcrucifyhim,theydidnotkillhim.Thatisjusthistorically,demonstrablyincorrect.Ithinkthat
Mohammad,thoughinsomewaysagreatreligiousleaderinthathepromotedmonotheismandthe
onenessofGodagainstthepaganpolytheismthatwasinArabiaatthattime,Ithinkhewentoffthe
correctpathwhenhedeniedthedeityofJesusandhebegantocondemnChristianstohellfortheir
blasphemousbeliefsthatJesusisinfacttheSonofGodandisdivine.SothecasethatIpresented
tonightisanattempttoshowwhyIthinkitismorerationaltobeaChristianmonotheistthanaMuslim
monotheist.
QUESTION:[26]Welcome,Dr.Craig.Iamalittlebit[inaudible]whyyoudidn'ttacklethequestionby
brotherIsmailaboutthedevelopmentoftheTestamentstheGospels.Weknow,forexample,thatthere
waspoliticalstrifeintheRomanEmpireatthetime.Clearly,thisseemstopropoundtheRomanpaganism
atthetime.Thisisallthatyouhaveprovenheretonight.SowiththeGospelsdevelopingthewaythatthey
are,itdoesn'tsayanythingaboutworshipingGod.ItjustbringsinJesusas...previouslymentioned
Mithras.
DR.CRAIG:ThereasonIdidn'ttalkaboutthesynopticproblemorthedevelopmentoftheologywithinthe
Gospelsisbecauseitwasn'trelevanttotonight'squestion.Tonight'squestionwasidentifyingJesus:ishe
man(thatistosay,merelyman)orishebothGodandman?Mycaseforthehumanityanddivinityof
Jesusdoesn'tdependuponanyparticularviewofthedevelopmentofthesynopticGospelsorthe
theologyoftheNewTestament.WhatIdoisIusethemethodsofmodernbiblicalhistoricalcriticismto
drivebacktothehistoricalJesususingthesecriteriaofauthenticityandshowthatthehistoricalJesus
himselfmadeclaimswhichimplyhisdivinehumanstatus.Soalloftheseotherpointsarelater
subsequentissuesthatcanbeaddressedlateroninanotheroccasion.Wearenotinterestedherein
biblicalinerrancyorthesynopticproblem.WeareinterestedinunderstandingwhoJesuswas.Whatdid
hethinkofhimself?MyclaimisthatwhenyoulookatthehistoricallyauthenticwordsofJesusyoufinda
personwhoC.S.LewissaidcannotbedismissedasjustanotherhumanteacherastheQur'anclaims.He
waseitheranutcase,orhewasablasphemer,orhewaswhohesaidhewas.Ithinkthathewaswhohe
saidhewasbecauseoftheverypersuasiveevidenceforhisresurrectionfromthedead.Asthe
moderatorsaid,therealquestionis:isJesusalivetoday?Ifheisrisenfromthedeadthenhemusthave
beenwhoheclaimedtobe.Sothatismycase.Itisrestingonthesetwopoints.Theseotherpoints,
thoughinterestingandimportant,arepointsforanotherday.Theyarenotrelevanttonight.
MR.ISMAIL:Ithinkthequestioncannotbedismissedbecauseitisanimportantissue.Thesynoptic
problemisanimportantissue.
[ThequestionerinterjectswiththecommentItisthesourceofthewholedebate.]
Itisthesource.Ibasicallypointedout,whichDr.Craigneverdeniedandwhichscholarsthroughoutthe
worldstate,thattheGospelsarenothistoricalaccounts.Basicallytheyareapologeticwordstoprove
certainparticulartheologicalmotifs.AsIshowedyouearlierontherewasadevelopment.InMatthew's
Gospel,forexample,youfindaparticularviewofJesuswhichwashuman.AsyougofromoneGospelto
thenexttothenextyoufindanevolvedidea,anevolvedconceptofJesus.Theotherpointaboutthe
statementsandtheradicalclaimsmadebyJesusallthoseclaimswhereyouwanttoproveorassume
oradducethedivinityofChrist,youhavetoreadintothetext.Itisimplied.Inotherwords,hesaystothe
highpriest,AreyoutheChrist,theSonofthelivingGodandhesaysYes,Iam.Itbasicallyisan
implication.Youhavetoreadintothatparticularinterpretation.Soinlightofthat,thatiswhyyoufind
someonelikeWilliamElleryChanningwhohadtogooutofhisbasicwaytosuggestandconcludethat
Wedonotfindintheepistlesatraceofthestrangephraseology,'IspeakthisasGod'and'Ispeakthisas
man.'Itwasnotneededinthatparticularday.Itwasdemandedbytheerrorsofalaterage.Ifitwas
demandedbytheerrorsofalaterage,theninotherwordsforthepurposeofreconcilingcertain
passageswhichajustcriticismcaninagreatdegreeexpressthenyouhavetobasicallyinventa
hypothesisfarmoredifficultandinvolvingagrossabsurdityinordertoprovethatJesuswasGod.Why
notgobacktotheQur'anicpointofviewandtheNewTestamentwhereJesusproclaimsthatheishuman
andhegoesoutofhiswaytoemphasizehishumanity.
MODERATOR:ItseemstomethatweneedadebateontheinerrancyorthereliabilityoftheScriptures.
Butthatisanotherday.ItremainsformetothankJubileeChurchverymuchforhostingthisoccasionand
thankyouallforcoming.[27]
[19]2:03:57
[20]2:05:50
[21]2:08:51
[22]2:11:11
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[24]2:19:10
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[27]TotalRunningTime:2:33:12

Identifying Jesus - Is He Man or Both Man and God - Reasonable Faith

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12/19/2016 IdentifyingJesus:IsHeManorBothManandGod?

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