Professional Documents
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Copy
capacity as Personal Representative )
of the ESTATE OF JAMES P. CHASSE, )
JR., )
Plaintiffs, )
V. )NO. CV-07-0189-HU
CHRISTOPHER HUMPHREYS; KYLE NICE; )
CITY OF PORTLAND; CITY OF PORTLAND )
JOHN DOE FIREFIGHTERS/PARAMEDICS;
PORTLAND POLICE BUREAU and OTHER )
PORTLAND JOHN and JANE DOE 1
OFFICIALS; BRET BURTON; MULTNOMAH )
COUNTY; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and )
JANE DOE DEPUTY SHERIFFS and MEDICAL)
PERSONNEL; MULTNOMAH COUNTY JOHN and)
JANE DOE SHERIFF'S OFFICE and OTHER )
OFFICIALS; TRI-COUNTY METROPOLITAN )
TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT OF OREGON; )
DEPOSITION OF
DAVID E. LILLEGAARD
Taken in behalf of Defendants
* * *
July 17, 2008
1211 S.W. Fifth, Suite 1900
on
Shannon K. Krska, CSR
- ..
court Reporter
400 Columbia, swte 140
Vancouver, W A 98660
Schrmtt&Lehmann, Inc. 121 sw Morr~sons t , s u ~ t e850
Portland, OR 97204
C O U R T R E P O R T E R S
(360) 695 5554 (503) 223 4040
Fax 13601 695-1737 www sireporting corn sl~nc@~westoffice
net
David E. Lillegaard, 7/17/2008 Chasse v. Humphreys, et al.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiffs: MR. THOMAS M. STEENSON
Attorney at Law
8 1 5 S.W. Second, Suite 500
Portland, OR 9 7 2 0 4
EXHIBITS
No. 302 Diagram 49
DAVID E. LILLEGAARD
called as a witness in behalf of the Defendants,
having first been sworn by the Reporter,
testifies as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. RICE:
Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Lillegaard. I'm Jim
Rice. I work for the City of Portland. And we just
introduced ourselves to each other.
A. M-hm.
Q. You're here to have your deposition taken
today. Are you aware of that?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you ever had your deposition taken
before?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever testified in court before?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And what kind of a case was that,
matter was that?
A. Gosh, I barely remember. It was like 20
years ago.
Q. Okay.
A. It was involving like some other thing that
I witnessed.
Q. You were a witness?
A. I was a witness, yeah.
Q. All right. Have you had a chance to talk to
anybody about what a deposition is?
A. Not really.
Q. Okay. It's a - -
A. Well, yes.
Q. Okay.
A. I talked to him this morning on the phone.
Q. Mr. Steenson?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. And did he generally go over with you - -
A. Yeah.
Q. - - what a deposition was?
A. Yes.
Q. So it's - -
A. But not before today.
Q. Okay. And it's an opportunity for lawyers
to ask perhaps a witness questions to determine what
they're aware of. Do you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. And what I'm going to do is ask you
A. No.
Q. Any training in martial arts?
A. NO.
Q. Ever in the military?
A. No.
Q. How about a contact with law enforcement
officers, have you had any contact with the Portland
Police or any other law enforcement officers?
A. Ever?
Q. Yeah.
A. Yeah.
Q. And can you tell me what kind of contact
that's been?
A. 1998 - -
Q. Okay.
A. - - I got called by an officer to be
questioned about some money missing from a salon that
I managed at the time.
Q. Okay. So the police were making some sort
20 of an investigation?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. Is there anything about the police officers'
23 conduct at that time that you thought was
24 unprofessional or improper?
25 A. No.
15
A. No.
Q. So it was kind of a question-and-answer
format - -
A. M-hm.
Q. -- is that what it was?
A. M-hm.
Q. Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In your life's experience, have you ever had
a family member or a friend or through work had
contact with someone who had a serious mental illness?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us about that?
A. I had an uncle who committed suicide a
couple of years ago.
Q. Okay. And did he live here in the Portland
area when you were here?
A. This was when I was living in Philadelphia.
Q. Okay. Was he also in Philadelphia?
A. He was here in Portland.
Q. He was here?
A. Yeah.
Q. Do you know, did anyone ever tell you what
condition that your uncle suffered from?
A. It was depression.
Q. Depression?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Could you tell he was depressed?
A. Yeah.
Q. Any other interaction with seriously
mentally ill people?
A. I have an aunt also. My dad's mom - - I
mean, my dad -- I'm sorry, my dad's sister who is
paranoid schizophrenia.
Q. And is she here in Portland?
A. No. She lives in South Dakota.
Q. Okay. Do you - - have you had regular
contact with her?
A. Yes.
Q. And do you go visit her or does she come to
visit you?
A. I visited -- last time I saw her was three
years ago.
Q. Okay. And do you know whether or not she
takes medication?
A. She does.
Q. Have you ever been around when you were told
it was - - or you perceived she was not taking
medication?
A. Yes.
A. Yes.
Q. And where were you?
A. I was - - I had climbed up on the steps,
'Cause I saw the police. I didn't see Chasse right
away. I saw the police when I was in the middle of
the road walking back from Whole Foods.
Q. Okay. Had you gone to Whole Foods for
lunch?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. So you're walking back from Whole
Foods?
A. Right, right.
Q. So you're at ground level on 13th at that
time - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - is that where you are?
A. Yes.
Q. And you saw some police cars?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Anything about the police cars that
is out of the ordinary for you?
A. That they were there in the first place.
Q. Okay. Do you know how many there were?
A. How many police? No, not exactly. I mean,
I can guess, but no.
A. M-hm.
Q. - - off to one side?
not.
Q. And you say his eyes were closed. Was it
his one eye or could you actually see both his eyes?
A. Both his eyes were closed from - - well, he
was laying down on one eye kind of, so, I mean, it was
obviously closed or open laying in the concrete, so - -
Q. So we're assuming one eye was closed?
A. Right.
Q. And you could see the other eye?
A. Right.
Q. And was the - - was he still?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any movement at all?
A. NO.
Q. How long did you observe him in a condition
when he was still?
A. About - - oh, gosh, I don't remember exactly.
I don't know. I don't know exactly, sorry.
Q. When he was in that condition, were there
police officers or medics of some sort around him?
A. Yes.
Q. Sometimes when we look at a group of people
we can differentiate them somehow. And I'll just
start by was there differences in clothing regarding
the people who were around Mr. Chasse?
A. Yes.
Q. What do you recall about that?
A. I remember seeing police and what I, at the
time, assumed were security as well.
Q. Okay. What would make you say someone is
security?
A. They looked like the - - the Pearl District
security that work in the neighborhood.
Q. All right.
A. So I'm not sure how many were there. I
mean, it was pretty - - it was a small group, but it
was pretty like hectic.
Q. All right. And then could you differentiate
-- 1'11 call those law enforcement people. Were there
differences in their uniform colors?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. All right. And then was there another group
of uniforms that were different from law enforcement?
A. Yes. There were emergency workers.
Q. All right. Had you seen those emergency
workers other times downtown?
A. No.
Q. You'd never seen EMTs or other people?
A. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Q. Okay. So you have some sort of frame of
A. Yeah.
Q. - - recognizing them?
A. Yes, definitely.
Q. And were the police officers, as you're
observing them when Mr. Chasse is still, doing
anything?
A. Standing around looking at him.
Q. Okay. And how about the emergency - - or the
medical workers, the emergency workers, were they
doing anything?
A. One - - the lady, there was a lady in the
group.
Q. All right. What was she doing?
A. She had some sort of monitor.
Q. All right.
A. And she was checking him.
Q. Was she standing up or sitting or kneeling
or how would you describe her posture?
A. She was changing positions. She would stand
up. She - - from what I remember, she had him hooked
up to some kind of monitor because I remember
wondering what the monitor was all about. I think it
was a heart monitor --
Q. Okay.
A. NO.
Q. -- is that right?
And is Mr. Chasse making any noise during
this period of time?
A. No.
Q. Did Mr. Chassels laying still ever change?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you see or hear that led you to
that conclusion?
A. He became conscious again.
Q. All right. And how did he act when that
happened?
Q. Okay.
A. - - just 'cause I'm supposed to be working.
Q. All right. Checking in with the boss?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. Is there a manager at that place?
A. She is our sort of like - - she wasn't there
that - - no, there wasn't.
Q. Okay. So you just sort of check in?
A. Yeah.
Q. And then do you come back out again?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. How long do you think you were inside the
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. -- is that right?
A. Like I said, I'm moving around a little bit
to get different vantage points. And when that was
wrapped up I walked - - when she put the machine away I
was kind of walking back into the shop.
Q. Okay.
A. I can play this out in my mind.
Q. Okay. Are you kind of curious about what's
going on?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you shocked about what you're seeing?
A. Very much --
Q. Okay.
A. -- yeah.
Q. And what is it that you're shocked about?
A. That it's going on in the first place.
Q. Okay.
A. Because you don't see that every day in that
area of town.
Q. No.
Had you seen a similar incident to this in
your life?
A. Never.
Q. All right. So you pop in just for a few
seconds?
A. Yeah.
Q. You come back out. What's the next thing
that you observe?
A. I do see them put him in the car --
Q. Okay.
A. - - and drive away. Ad then it just ends
like - - and I see the lady with a bucket of water
pouring the water on the blood.
Q. Okay. Let's kind of just back up a little
bit.
A. I1msorry.
Q. We will get to that.
That's okay.
So did you see Mr. Chasse either standing up
or being lifted up off the ground?
A. Being lifted up.
Q. And who did that?
A. The officers.
Q. All right. Do you know how many officers
did that?
A. I think two.
A. Yeah.
Q. - - intersection of 13th - -
A. Yes.
Q. -- and Everett; is that right?
A. Very close, yes.
Q. And would it be west of the intersection?
A. I can't remember.
Q. All right. Did you, I mean, actually see
him being placed in the car itself?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you describe, as the officers are
approaching the - - forgive me if I've asked this. How
many officers were carrying him?
A. I think two.
Q. Two.
And as the two officers are carrying
Mr. Chasse and they come to the car, how did
Mr. Chasse get into the vehicle itself?
A. I think they - - I think I remember them
placing him in.
Q. Okay. Did someone open the door, is the
door open? Do you remember any of that?
A. I think the door was open, yeah.
Q. Okay. And did they place him in what part
of the car?
A. In the back.
A. No.
Q. - - or did you have a clear view during this
time?
A. Yeah, clear view.
Q. All right. So as everyone's leaving you
don't hear the police officers saying anything; is
that right?
A. Right.
Q. And you don't hear the EMTs saying anything?
A. Right.
Q. Is there anyone else telling you anything
you didn't know?
A. Yes.
Q. And what are people telling you at that time
that you - - you did not, you know, witness or see?
A. My friend Luis told me that an officer said
to him that he was a known drug dealer or - -
Q. Okay. And who is Luis?
A. Not Luis, I'm sorry, Jamie.
Q. Jamie?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. And who is Jamie?
A. He's one of the guys that works at Blue
Hour.
Q. Is this Jamie Marquez?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Before this incident, did you know
Mr. Marquez?
A. Not closely, no. I mean, I bumped into him
and was friendly with him when I saw him on the
street, but I didn't know him that well.
Q. Is this someone that just happens to work in
the general vicinity?
A. Right.
Q. You're not social friends with him?
A. I'm friends with him now.
Q. You're friends with him now?
A. Yeah.
Q. At that time, you were just people working
in the same basic geographic vicinity?
A. Yes.
Q. And have you become social friends with him
since then?
A. Yes.
Q. Does that have something to do with this
incident?
A. Yeah.
Q. And how did that come about?
A. We're both musicians and we talked about
that.
happen to them?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. All right.
A. I mean, that's not a fun thing to see.
Q. Of course not.
When you were standing there at that point
53
Q. Okay.
A. -- SO --
Q. Did you read any articles about this
particular case?
A. Not thoroughly, no. I just skimmed the
articles that I was in and I've seen a couple of - - I
saw it on the news a couple of times, but I never
really thoroughly read any one article.
Q. Okay. And I believe at some point there
54
1 were p o l i c e r e p o r t s t h a t were posted on t h e I n t e r n e t .
2 Did you r e a d - -
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. - - any of t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t s ?
5 A. Yes.
7 you read?
10 Q. H-m-m.
11 A. And t h a t ' s how I found o u t .
12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Yeah.
15 p o l i c e r e p o r t from t h a t p o i n t .
16 Q. So you read t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t ?
17 A. Yes.
19 t h e p o l i c e r e p o r t p r i o r t o coming h e r e ?
20 A. J u s t from t h e on l i n e .
21 Q. On l i n e .
22 A. Yeah.
24 reports?
25 A. No.
A. Yes.
Q. - - is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Was there any other thing that you
observed at the time that led you to believe that he
was unconscious?
A. No, other than he wasn't moving.
Q. He wasn't moving at -- he was lying still
and - -
A. I couldn't see him breathing.
Q. You could not see him breathing?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. What were you looking for that led
you to believe that he was not breathing?
A. I was looking at - - to see if his chest was
moving, to see if his stomach was moving.
Q. Okay.
A. Like very closely at that point. I was kind
of -- like I said, I was moving around, getting
different vantage points trying to see if there was
any sign of breathing.
Q. Okay. And from your vantage point, you did
not see his -- he was lying on his stomach at the
time; is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. NO.
A. - - with his face sort of forward. His chest
was also diagonal. He wasn't like on his stomach,
'cause his - - the way he was tied was kind of awkward.
You know what I'm saying? So I saw kind of like part
of his chest.
Q. Okay. So he was not laying on his chest?
A. Kind of diagonally. Diagonally like one --
21 A. Right.
22 Q. And so later on that evening you're watching
23 the news and then you find out he had died?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Were you surprised when you found out that
59
A. No.
Q. - - any of the customers?
A. Hm-m.
Q. Did you hear any of the conversations that
were going on around you?
A. NO.
17 A. M-hm.
18 Q. -- and that you thought that there were
19 maybe two?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. So is it possible that there were more than
22 two?
23 A. Yes, it could have been two or three.
24 Q. Okay. So you just -- you're really not
25 sure?
A. NO.
A. Right, right.
Q. So we do appreciate you coming here today
and helping us out, so - -
Do you recall whether - - what his - - the
color of Mr. Chasse's skin looked like when you were
looking at him?
A. He looked pretty pale.
Q. Looked pretty pale?
A. Yeah.
Q. Was there a difference in - - when you think
that he was unconscious during the period of time - -
how long was that, do you think, that he - - he was
unconscious?
A. It couldn't have been more than 15 minutes
of -- from when I saw him to when he woke up. I think
it was about ten minutes, but I'm just guessing.
Q. And how much of that 15 minutes or ten
minutes do you think he wasn't breathing?
A. I don't know.
A. Right.
Q. - - and it didn't appear that he was
breathing. My question is: How long a period of time
did you spend looking at his chest and stomach and --
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay.
A. No more than that.
Q. And did you see Mr. Chasse before -- before
the paramedics were there?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So, again, you saw - -
A. I mean before - -
Q. Before the ambulance was there.
A. I didn't see him until after he was passed
out.
Q. Okay. And after the female paramedic was
there?
A. Right.
Q. You didn't see the female paramedic come
onto the scene?
A. No.
Q. Did you see that machine that he was hooked
up to, was that in a black bag?
A. I - - when I saw it, it looked like a big
monitor. I didn't see a bag that it was in.
Q. Okay.
A. I couldn't tell.
Q. Did you see a backpack that may have
belonged to Mr. Chasse anywhere on the scene?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And when you saw that Mr. Chasse
started moving again - -
A. M-hm.
Q. - - do you remember at all whether anybody
had done any sort of medical test on him just prior to
him starting to move again?
A. No.
Q. Did you see anyone poke him or try and get
some blood for any tests?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any information about what
the - - the medics or the paramedics might have seen
before they got to the - - whether they had any
information about what occurred before they got to the
scene?
A. I'm sorry, could you repeat?
Q. Do you know, do you have any information
about what the paramedics -- whether they knew about
what happened before they got to the scene?
A. I don't.
Q. Did you - - since you were able to see when
he wasn't - - when you think he wasn't breathing, were
you able to then see the rise and fall of his chest
after he reanimated?
A. Like disoriented.
Q. When you saw Mr. Chasse walking around, was
it always in the Pearl District?
A. NO.
Q. Where else?
A. No. I mean, I remember him being from
Portland. I used to lived in Old Town.
Q. Okay.
A. And I've seen him walk by Old Town - -
Q. All right.
A. - - a few times. Not many times, just a few
times.
Q. Sure.
Any -- anyplace else in Portland you ever
saw him walk?
A. I think I saw him by the library once.
Q. Up on Tenth?
A. Yeah.
Q. Did you ever see him causing any problems;
screaming, getting in fights, causing any - - any
issues?
A. No.
Q. Was he always alone?
A. Yeah.
Q. And by - - when you say he looked like a
20
21 Shannon K. Krska