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You are here: Home / Meeting Women / 5 Signs Women Want You To Talk to Them
5 Signs Women Want You To

Talk to Them
FEBRUARY 1, 2016 BY DR. NERDLOVE
Guys spend a lot of time worrying about whether they should or shouldn’t approach women they’
attracted to. It’s an incredibly common component of approach anxiety; you want to go introduce
yourself to that cute woman you see, but you’re afraid of getting rejected or being another
unwelcome interruption in her day.
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/5-signs-women-want-you-to-approach-them/ 1/26
1/11/2018 5 Signs Women Want You To Approach Them - Paging Dr. NerdLove
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r “*Sigh*”
But here’s a secret you should know: women worry about rejection and humiliation just as much
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men do – more so, in many cases, as many men react badly to being approached. As a result,
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women will frequently give subtle, non-verbal indicators that they’d like you – yes, you – to go tal
to them.
Stumble By keeping an eye out for these signs – also known as “approach invitations” – you can
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make sure that the person you’re approaching wants to talk to you.
Approach
1 Invitation #1: She Plays Eye Games
One of the most common approach invitations is also one of the subtlest: she’ll use her eyes. Eye
contact is incredibly powerful and intimate; in fact, studies have found that prolonged eye-contact
can trigger feelings of love and passion in people. This is one reason why deliberate eye-contact
often used as an approach invitation; we rarely make strong eye-contact with people we don’t like
In fact, deliberately avoiding eye-contact is one of the ways that men and women attempt to avoi
getting drawn into a conversation with other people.
So if you’re wondering whether someone is interested in you, watch her eyes. Not only should yo
endeavor to make eye-contact with women, you should watch for the women who’re trying to cat
your eye. Someone who’s actively trying to make eye-contact is more likely to be open to an
approach. Most of the time when we check someone out, we take around 3 or so seconds to
examine their face. If the person takes longer – four or five seconds, say – then that’s a pretty
strong indicator that they’re interested in you; there’s something about you that fascinates them.
Of course, someone just giving you the hairy eyeball might be interested… or she might be trying
to figure out why you remind her of that friend she hasn’t seen in years, especially if she’s got the
“I’m trying to do do complex math” look instead of a smile. This is why you want to look for
a particular form of eye-contact: the three-part glance.
A woman who’s interested in you will often meet your eyes, look away (usually down or to the
side), then look back again, usually with a smile. This can be an easy invitation to mistake; after a
breaking eye-contact can be seen as a “oh god, don’t let them think I was interested” move. Mos
people will tend to assume that the eye contact was accidental and move on. It’s the “look back”
part that’s important; it’s a subtle and often flirty way of checking to see if you’re still interested.
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There’re a lot of dudes who prefer the “Oh god, senpai noticed me…” approach
to eye contact.
That smile is to let you know she’s pleased that you’re still checking her out and you should come
over and start talking.
Approach Invitation #2: She Checks You Out

Of course, while there’re women who get flustered when they’re caught looking at people they’re
interested in, there are also those who’re considerably more open about conveying their interest.
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r Some people are less subtle about it than others…
Because gender roles are a thing, many assertive women still prefer to be the approached rather
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than the approacher. Sometimes it’s because they want someone with the confidence to actually
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come say “hi”. Sometimes it’s because they appreciate feeling desired and having someone
approach
Stumble them validates that feeling. Sometimes she has enough courage in the moment to be
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overtly flirty but not enough to pull the trigger herself. Other times it could be that she’s as nervou
about rejection as men are and is willing to leave a little plausible deniability; if he doesn’t respon
1 easier to play it off than a direct rejection.
it’s
So what do these more obvious approach invitations look like? The most direct – and forward –
version is the classic “elevator look”. A woman may meet your eyes, look you up and down (letti
her eyes track your torso), before looking you back in the eyes again and smiling. She may also
give you “sticky eyes”1, pointedly holding your gaze with an inviting smile. They may make a poin
of making eye-contact before looking around the room, then meeting your gaze again; a sign tha
they’ve checked out the competition and still prefer you. They may throw a discrete wink or use t
triangle gaze – looking from your eye to your lip and back to your eyes. They may also do
something to bring your attention to their mouth – touching their lip with a finger or biting their lip.
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So kinda like this, really.
qApproach Invitation #3: The Body Language Cues

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Other signs of interest – and indicators that they’d appreciate you making an approach – are
almost unconscious gestures. People, men and women both, tend to make small, subtle
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adjustments to their body language when they see someone they’re attracted to. One of the mos
common examples with women are what are known as “preening” gestures – making small
adjustments to her clothing and hair, in order to present herself at her best. The most common
example of preening behavior in women is playing with their hair – smoothing it down, twining it
around their finger or brushing it slowly away from their face. They also may start rubbing their
neck or wrists; self-touching is another sign of interest, as it draws the eye towards those parts.
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“Oh, hey, did it just get warm in here?”
Another common sign of interest – one that frequently precedes other approach invitations –
involves her torso. To start with, someone who’s open to being approached is going to have more
“open” body language. She’ll be facing outwards towards the room, rather than facing the bar or
her friends. Her arms will be angled away from her torso; crossed arms are a defensive, closed-o
signal that says “go away”. Then, if she sees someone she does like, she’ll adjust her body slight
One common sign is that she’ll straighten up and square herself off; it’s a way of improving her
posture and displaying herself to a better advantage. She’ll also frequently angle her torso toward
you. Humans tend to be goal-oriented and point themselves at the things they’re interested in. If
you catch someone’s eye and they open up towards you, they’re definitely interested.
You may also see some mirroring; if you make a gesture when you catch her eye – a wave or an
eyebrow-flash – then that’s a sign of interest and an indicator that you should go over and
introduce yourself.
Just remember: one gesture can be happenstance and two may be coincidence. Instead of looki
for one indicator, you should look for clusters of gestures that occur either simultaneously or very
close on the heels of other signs of interest.
Approach Invitation #4: Proximity and Lingering

Another common approach invitation that women will give is to use proximity. They’ll position
themselves in such a way as to be in your immediate orbit. They may post up near you as you’re
standing around – not right next to you but close enough that it’s easy to make small-talk. They
may make a point of always just happening to be in your vicinity on a number of occasions while
you’re both there. You may realize that you’re always seeing her out of the corner of your eye, sh
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always seems to end up in the same row of the bookstore as you or that you both just happen to
keep bumping into each other, metaphorically speaking. It gives a level of plausible deniability to
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her trying to get to know you; if you’re not interested, then she’s able to move on quickly without
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having to deal with the embarrassment of a direct rejection.
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“Woah, what a complete and utter coincidence that we ran into each other
again…”
Another common form of proximity is the “accidental” bump – she makes a point of brushing past
you or “accidentally” colliding with you in a place where there is actually plenty of room. When
there’s plenty of space at the bar, say, the woman who accidentally jars your arm or squeezes pa
you and grazes against you may well be trying to get you to turn around and start a conversation
A couple words of warning: first, if you’re some place crowded, then collisions are almost
inevitable. This is especially true on dance-floors; someone bumping into you on the dance floor
isn’t necessarily an invitation to approach them unless you have other signs that she’s trying to g
your attention. The other is that proximity and lingering work for women; when guys do it, it tends
to be creepy. Chalk it up to the greater risk women face from men than men face from women an
don’t hover.
Approach Invitation #5: The Plausible Denial Conversation Starter
This happens more often than you’d realize, particularly when you’re out and about during the da
Have you ever had someone who sits down next to you and makes some comment or observatio
– how long it’s taking for her to get her coffee, the problems with the wifi, why the bus is so off-
schedule, something? This tends to be a plausibly deniable way of starting a conversation; she’s
essentially tossing out a low-investment invitation to talk (often called an observational opener in
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cold approach) in such a way that she can wave it off as her just talking to herself. It feels less
intimidating to toss those out there because it doesn’t feel as blatant as “hey, you seem like you’r
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interesting” approach to meeting somebody.
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“Hey, you’ve got the wifi password right? How about your number instead?”
Of course, there are plenty of people who tend to mutter to themselves over the course of their
day; not every stranger who complains about the lousy service at Peets is looking to get your
number. So how do you tell the difference between a subtle conversational opener and daily
frustration? Watch for those other contextual clues: proximity, body language, even the tone of
voice. If you get the feeling that they’re hoping for a response, then it’s a good time to strike up a
conversation.
Just remember: when you see those approach invitations, you want to act on them. He who
hesitates is lost after all; if you take too long, that cutie who’s given you the look-away-look-back
glance is going to think you’re not interested and move on. Don’t pass up the opportunity when
you’re given an approach invitation. Learn to recognize when women want you to approach, then
go over and say hello.
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College)
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1. Or, more crudely, eye-fucking the shit out of you [ ]
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FILED UNDER: MEETING WOMEN
TAGGED WITH: APPROACH INVITATIONS, MEETING WOMEN, SOCIAL SKILLS
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92 Comments Paging Dr. NerdLove 

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craniest • 2 years ago
" ki d lik thi ll "
"so kinda like this, really"
I C3PO what you did there :-D

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Caliseivy • 2 years ago
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This is the first time I&#039ve ever seen a bootlegged Gif.
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Eliza Jane • 2 years ago
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They also may start rubbing their neck or wrists; self-touching is another sign of interest, as it
draws the eye towards those parts.
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Warning, warning: touching the hair or neck or wrists may also mean she is feeling vulnerable
and uncomfortable and frightened. There is a natural urge to get your hands in a position to
protect vulnerable areas when you feel threatened, and the throat is a very vulnerable area.
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Rubbing wrists is a very common (in my experience) self-soothing gesture, when one is feeling
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anxious. I would NEVER EVER EVER read neck-touching or wrist-touching or even hair-
touching as signs of interest unless strongly backed up by other indicators.
NEVER EVER.
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Wondering_ > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago
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Totally agree.
I think a lot of these signs are problematic if you take them by themselves. I comment o
the length of time it&#039s taking for me to get food/coffee all the time just because
I&#039m annoyed. (Note: Do not stand between a T1 diabetic with low sugar and her
food! ;))
You need to watch for more than one sign.

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Eliza Jane > Wondering_ • 2 years ago

My concern with the signs I called out is that they can frequently signal the exac
opposite -- that this person is already stressed and distressed and unhappy. I
would really hate to have this article lead guys to start approaching more
uncomfortable women who are feeling threatened because they think their "OM
get me out of here!!" body language was "hey, handsome," body language.
I think there are a lot of false positives, but most of them will be fairly harmless.
you&#039re commenting on coffee time, and a guy responds to it, it&#039s
probably not going to make things worse for you.
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YoshiLand > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago

In a lot of false positive instances, its how it ends that really makes the
largest impression in my experience. I&#039ve read signals wrong befor
and approached uninterested women before.
I just keep the conversation less than a minute long and walk away if I ca
read that they ain&#039t feeling me. I&#039ve also seen some dudes bo
these ladies down in nightmare monologues that never end.
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Wondering_ > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago
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You are right, yes. I didn&#039t intend to diminish your point. Sorry abou
that.
I admit I&#039ve been reading every unwelcome or potentially unwelcom
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approach lately in the context of women being shot by men they turn dow
after the latest incident of that happening, so it all seems potentially
dangerous to me. My issue to work on.
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James Gilmer > Wondering_ • 2 years ago
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To be fair to DNL, he repeats this or a variation throughout the column:
"Just remember: one gesture can be happenstance and two may be coincidenc
Share Instead of looking for one indicator, you should look for clusters of gestures that
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occur either simultaneously or very close on the heels of other signs of interest.
And with things like neck touching, I would say that there&#039s usually a VER
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clear difference between a sensual neck touching indicating interest, and a fear
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response that causes one to check one&#039s neck. There are usually tons of
micro-expressions that go along with any given piece of body language, which i
why taking it as a whole is so important.
The easiest thing to do if there&#039s any ambiguity is just not approach, which
is a totally valid choice, or wait and sort of double check your first instinct by
responding to glances and such and seeing it the person reacts positively or
negatively.
It&#039s always possible to misread a situation though, which is why

approaching with civility is so important, not to mention a person should be polit
in an approach no matter what, but there&#039s loads of "tests" that can be don
before you put yourself out there in a "I&#039m interested way" from your own
body language to talking casually to the person you&#039re approaching before
diving in to deeper ends and making sure you&#039ve not misread the situation
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Lara Garbero Tais > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago

Ditto. The only times I &#039play&#039 with my hair are when I&#039m 100% focused
on a problem I&#039m trying to solve, which looks kinda like rubbing or tapping the top
of my head, or when I&#039m feeling squicked out and very very uncomfortable, which
looks like twirling or pulling small sections from the back of my head. Approaching me w
get you a puzzled half a second look and a &#039sorry not now&#039 in the first case,
and will cause me to scan the area discretely for something I can use as a weapon to
defend myself in the second.
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Eliza Jane > Lara Garbero Tais • 2 years ago

That back of the neck thing is exactly what I do, too. Or playing with a necklace,
which is also very strong "OMG overwhelmed" language from me.
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Starleitmotif > Lara Garbero Tais • 2 years ago
And to make things even more confusing, I play with my hair in a number of ver
different situations, from "that guy is super cute, does my hair look OK" to "I am
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focusing really hard on learning or remembering something" to "wow, was that
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ever embarrassing" (sort of like when cats fall off something and do the "I totally
meant to do that" grooming). So yeah, it certainly *can* be a sign of interest, bu
definitely isn&#039t always.
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sathania • 2 years ago
I&#039ve always been too shy to try the "look at him" approach, but guys, number 4 is very re
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when I like someone I try to pass in front of him a lot, even if that means fake trips to the
bathroom
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YoshiLand > sathania • 2 years ago
I&#039ve picked up on this too. Was at a party and this one girl would always be in my
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line of sight but not in a creepy way but it was noticeable. I found out later that she liked
me.
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Eliza Jane > sathania • 2 years ago

Yes! When I&#039m trying to be approached, I try to be visible. "Maybe he just
hasn&#039t seen me yet! I&#039ll go order a drink when he&#039s standing there, an
be all suave and stunning a few inches away from him!" See also: browsing the same
section of the bookstore, sitting near him on the bus when there are lots of available
seats, starting a conversation with someone near him, or going to the vending machine
at the same time he does.
I think this is a really, really common strategy for socially awkward women, who
aren&#039t really sure what they&#039re doing or how else to express interest.
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Gentleman Johnny > sathania • 2 years ago

At least one member of the show used a version of #4 interspersed with occasional "te
me more about this" at a party until I took the clue and asked her if she wanted to be pa
of the show.
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James Gilmer • 2 years ago

It&#039s funny that this is today&#039s article since over the weekend I had a conversation w
the wife and a few other lady friends about DNL and how many commenters had problems wit
approaching and the discussion about how to tell via body language was nearly word for word
what you&#039ve written
what you&#039ve written.
As well as the deep-annoyance with people who break obvious DO NOT APPROACH signs, b
the main point was that body language is usually very obvious, and in the case where someon
reads the body language wrong, as long as they&#039re polite there&#039s no harm, no foul.
It&#039s usually a case of the wrong person picking up the signal or someone making any of
the mistakes mentioned in the article (confusion, the women is trying to place someone&#039s
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face, etc) although there should be enough data to pick that up, it&#039s still not the worst thin
in the world to approach someone who wasn&#039t signalling as long as you&#039re polite a
know to veer off when it&#039s made clear that there wasn&#039t an invitation there.
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That&#039s one reason the eye contact part is so important, it&#039s pretty hard to misread
certain forms of eye contact and associated behaviors, but if that happens, there&#039s still ju
acting like an adult, wishing them a good night, and veering off.
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YoshiLand • 2 years ago
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Eyes are the easiest to read imo. Best way to see if you&#039re about to waste two
people&#039s time or not.
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dyson618 • 2 years ago
What if you never get such signals?
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Eliza Jane > dyson618 • 2 years ago
This article doesn&#039t touch on that topic directly because it&#039s outside of its ma
point. This article would be a good place to start:
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/05/subtle-thin...
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Kylroy > dyson618 • 2 years ago

Then leave women alone. If you&#039d *like* to get those signals, read the article Eliza
linked.
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enail0_o > dyson618 • 2 years ago

As well as Eliza Jane&#039s link, context is a big factor in this. Some people regularly
get lingering gazes and flirty gestures as they go about their daily lives, but it&#039s no
at all unusual not to, because a fair percentage of people aren&#039t looking to pick up
total strangers/encourage someone to pick them up at the grocery store or in the food
court. You&#039re more likely to get that in contexts where that&#039s often what
people are looking for, like clubs, or with people who are semi-strangers, like the perso
who&#039s always in line at the coffee shop behind you or someone you&#039ve seen
around places, rather than total strangers, since they&#039ve had more time to notice
you, develop an interest, and maybe see if you&#039re likely to be friendly and/or safe
Also, it&#039s more likely in environments where you&#039re at home and fit in pretty
well with the people around than somewhere you&#039re super-uncomfortable and
forcing yourself to be.
A d if j t d &#039t t th
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/5-signs-women-want-you-to-approach-them/ i l th t d &#039t &#039 13/26
And if you just don&#039t get those signals, that doesn&#039t mean you&#039re
hideously unattractive and no one will ever be interested in you. Lots of people meet
dates through interactions that start out platonically, through their extended social circle
or people that they get to know in activities, classes, church, etc. rather than getting
approached or "approach me" signals right off the bat.
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Chalicotherium > dyson618 • 2 years ago
Only stock photo models give and receive these signals.
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GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

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What if you haven&#039t come across, any of these, EVER? And don&#039t think you ever
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will?
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Eliza Jane > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago
This article doesn&#039t touch on that topic directly because it&#039s outside of its ma
Share point. This article would be a good place to start:
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/05/subtle-thin...
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YoshiLand > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago
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Off topic but If you don&#039t think you will, then you probably won&#039t. Dating is a
personal and mental game, negative thoughts get negative results.
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Marty Farley > YoshiLand • 2 years ago

Ugh, can we knock off this Secret-esque thought advice? Dating is hard enough
without throwing in some mysterious woo-woo idea that you can somehow cont
circumstances/other people with thought energy. I&#039ve never miraculously
received a million dollars no matter how much I envision it. Some folks are not
going to suddenly have people falling all over themselves with lust just because
they avoid negative thoughts.
It&#039s one thing to have confidence and try to not psych yourself out. It&#039
totally another to try to convince yourself that the only reason that super model
over in the corner isn&#039t throwing herself at you is because you&#039re jus
not *positive* enough.
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Gentleman Johnny > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

Its not secret-esuqe to say if you believe no one will be attracted to you,
you won&#039t make an effort to notice or act on cues to the contrary.
Thomas Edison said that invention was 1% inspiration and 99%
perspiration and that&#039s true here, too. Without that 1%, though, the
other 99% isn&#039t focused or meaningful. That&#039s not to say
you&#039ll never get a date but it&#039ll be in spite of your head space
not because of it.
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trundlebear > Gentleman Johnny • 2 years ago

I&#039ve had Eeyores in my inbox for the last few days, and everything
from their messages to their profiles -- were "why bother, no one will eve
love me, I am so alone forever" and like... okay? If this is your best versio
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of yourself that you want to present to the world, um, I&#039m gonna be
over there.
Meanwhile, there&#039s nothing about them from first glance, be it
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pictures or facts about them or their interests, that says I wouldn&#039t
enjoy spending time with them. It&#039s 100% their attitude.
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I&#039m not saying that just changing their profiles to something more
positive would make them smash hits on the dating scene, but it sure
would prevent people from backspacing frantically and saddling up the
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Nopetopus at first message.
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Marty Farley > Gentleman Johnny • 2 years ago
q
Except what I&#039m arguing against is this idea that there ARE cues th
are just being ignored or disregarded. I am saying that is not true for
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everyone. Yes, some people do get in their own way, and let negative
thinking cloud their perception.
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But some people are actually correctly calling reality (or at least, as close
to reality as any of us can get) when they say they&#039ve never receiv
cues, and it&#039s annoying/insulting to constantly conflate the two.
Yes, some people have confirmation bias. But some people are also
invisible/unattractive enough to not warrant any attention without some
other stimulus. Can we please stop acting like this second group of peop
are non-existent or just kidding themselves?
(Also, not quibble about the artistic merit of inspiration, but a lot of
professional advice I&#039ve read, at least from earn-their-income-from
publishing writers, suggests that you can totally have focused or
meaningful work without inspiration. Inspiration seems to be for the lucky
few, not a common feature.)
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enail0_o > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

TBH, I think the majority of people don&#039t regularly get signals from
strangers in their ordinary daily life (not clubbing, bars and the like, and
also excluding people getting approached after a dance performance or
that kind of thing). Or at least, I don&#039t, I don&#039t know many
people who do (even the very conventionally attractive people) and I
verrrry rarely see it happening - and I&#039m quite a people-watcher.
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James Gilmer > enail0_o • 2 years ago

_ y g
The other important thing about signals is that they&#039re often not
obvious and sometimes not even a conscious thing (which is why
checking for other signals before trying an approach is important), and a
signal isn&#039t a "I want to make babies with you now" sign, it can be
something as simple as knowing the other person noticed you and did a
double take because something caught their eye.
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On the low end, I think more people get signals than they realize, but on
the higher end of involvement, where the signals progress to the point of
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being inviting...yeah, you&#039re not always going to get those, and
people aren&#039t always in a situation where they can give them.
Tweet I&#039ve gotten the "nod and smile" on the bus. My wife continues to
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tease me about the girl at McDonald&#039s who totally gave me the nod
and smile, and I automatically did the flirty three quarter head turn and
Reddit embarrassed smile back reflexively...because I was flattered...and she w
cute...and she gave me a free apple pie.
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So one part of not over reading signals is knowing when a signal is just
see more
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Gentleman Johnny > Marty Farley • 2 years ago
h
Inspiration in this case means something different than a magical bolt of
lightning that suddenly makes everything make sense. Inspiration in the
1 Edison sense (and how I despise using him as an example of anything
good) is having a solid idea of what you want to do. So instead of just
blogging about whatever is on your mind, its "I&#039m going to write a
dating advice blog for nerd guys" or instead of trying to invent something
its "I&#039m going to make a light source powered by electricity". The
inspiration itself doesn&#039t solve anything, it just gives you a focus fo
your efforts.
The broader sense of what I was getting at is that if your inspiration is "n
one finds me attractive or will make any effort to get close to me", you wi
actively enforce that even when the other person is clearly attracted to
you. This is what&#039s going on with a lot of people who say "I&#039m
totally clueless". They&#039re genuinely surprised that anyone could fin
them worth making a move on so they actively dismiss contrary evidence
until someone gets right in their face with it. No, that doesn&#039t mean
that everyone has a gaggle of interested people that they&#039re ignori
all the time. It does mean that the one time they do, they miss it.
△ ▽ • Share ›
GothamBuddha > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

This is what I was trying to say (my post should have been more detailed
but I don&#039t think I could have put it better than tMarty Farty). Also, I
wonder why anything that&#039s against the popular opinion gets
downvoted here.
I&#039m not a negative person. I&#039ve faced some horrible things in

my life and I still manage to live my life with a smile on my face - if
that&#039s not positive, I don&#039t know what is. I just feel along the
lines of what the above poster said: some people might never get those
cues that someone is interested in them (I know that the Dr. has spoken
about this before but I still don&#039t believe it) and I believe that is
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164
reserved for a "certain kind" of people, not going to go into the details.
Some might tryhard and bug the guy/girl enough for them to give the
person a chance, just for their perseverance (I just read a few posts on
s
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another dating column, not kidding). Others who are a tad more self-
respecting just put their heads down and go on with their lives.
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Gentleman Johnny > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago
I think the knee-jerk reaction is kind of like this -
Yes, it is possible that you&#039ve never met any of those people. In
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terms of the people who post their first comment on that topic, we&#039
found over several years that it is much more likely that the poster is
saying that its no fault of their own while either they&#039re oblivious or
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have some trait that actively drives people away.Its more likely a refrain
"nobody likes me and there&#039s nothing I can do about it so dating
advice is pointless" than to be a neutral observation. Those people
h
aren&#039t very pleasant to have around.
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1
eselle28 > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago
Others who are a tad more self-respecting just put their heads down and
go on with their lives.
This is entirely reasonable and constructive and I have no problem with

Which is, then, why I find your initial post to be frustrating. You know the
answer to the question you&#039re asking. If it never happens to you, yo
put your head down and go on with your life without cold approaching
people. If you only post the insincere question, it comes across as a
protest that the blog includes content for people whose dating lives are
different than your own. Not everything here is necessarily going to be fo
you. Does that mean that people who do get signals but who struggle to
read body language shouldn&#039t receive advice on how they might
improve their ability to pick up on others&#039 interest?
△ ▽ • Share ›
enail0_o > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

It&#039s definitely true that positive thinking is not all it takes to make
everyone get people throwing themselves at them. But Yoshiland is sayi
the reverse, that negative thinking can be all it takes to get people not to
which I think is more realistic, for reasons like the ones GJ gives.
Necessary (okay, not always necessary, but close enough), not sufficien
△ ▽ • Share ›
Marty Farley > enail0_o • 2 years ago

I think it just bothers me that we assume someone saying "I&#039ve nev
gotten attention from the opposite site" is labeled negative thinking,
instead of, ya know, maybe the reality of how things are.
Granted, this is a button-press issue of mine, but I hate how nearly
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164
anything that could be negative these days is immediately silenced with
trite and simplistic mottos about positive thinking, and the assumption is
that that negative thing is never *true*, that it&#039s all in the
s
person&#039s head or perception and they&#039re biased and lacking
reflection. I can&#039t even say I&#039m bad at playing ping-pong
without someone jumping up to insist that it isn&#039t true, it&#039s all
Tweet
mental game, I just need to BELIEVE in my skills, even if they&#039ve
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never seen a second of me playing ping-pong.
Yes, negative thinking can get in people&#039s way. But so can not
accepting the truth of a situation. If I have a broken foot, it&#039s
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annoying to have a doctor tell me I need surgery for my arm. If I&#039ve
never gotten any signals of interest from the opposite sex, telling me to
"stop thinking negatively" isn&#039t going to help if that isn&#039t the
q
problem in the first place. The problem could be a myriad of other things
that have absolutely nothing to do with positive/negative thinking, and by
Stumble trying to force away negative thoughts, I&#039m actually sabotaging my
own efforts at improvement.
h1
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Eliza Jane > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

I think there&#039s a real difference between "I&#039ve never gotten
attention" and "I will never get attention," which is an important distinctio
here. Saying, "You&#039re wrong, you have gotten signals" is different
from, "The fact that you think you&#039ll never get signals may be
coloring your perceptions."
To use your medical analogy, if you tell your doctor, "This rehab therapy
isn&#039t working, and it never will. My foot is never going to recover,"
they&#039re more likely to press about whether you&#039re really puttin
your all into therapy, because the fact that you think it&#039s hopeless
may mean you&#039re slacking off.
△ ▽ • Share ›
mediumballpoint > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

If you&#039re thinking you&#039ll never be on the receiving end of these signals, there
may be some confirmation bias at play. It&#039s possible that people may be sending
you these signals, but you&#039re not looking for them and/or recognizing them when
they happen.
△ ▽ • Share ›
Marty Farley > mediumballpoint • 2 years ago

Or.... they&#039ve just never received those signals. I&#039ve never gotten an
kind of positive signals from guys (nor been hit on), something confirmed by
p g g y ( ), g y
friends who don&#039t have the supposed confirmation bias I do (if anything,
they&#039d love to prove me wrong so I&#039ll shut up.)
Some folks are just not attractive. It&#039s kind of patronizing to tell someone
they should ignore their own experiences because they just HAVE to be biased,
instead of maybe giving them the benefit of the doubt that they&#039re not just
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164
some sad sack making up reasons to be sad.
△ ▽ • Share ›
s
trundlebear > Marty Farley • 2 years ago
I agree that it&#039s not cool to tell people to ignore their own
experiences, but I think mediumballpoint was more than fair in saying ma
Tweet
and possible, not "don&#039t be silly, your experiences are invalid".
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James Gilmer > trundlebear • 2 years ago
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Yeah, I do think there&#039s some daylight between someone who
honestly just never gets attention for whatever reason and someone
whose confirmation bias is at play, or someone who is just not good at
picking up social cues or doesn&#039t know what to look for.
q
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If you don&#039t know what body language means, you&#039re not goi
to recognize it. And someone who isn&#039t experienced isn&#039t goi
h
to be as adept at recognizing it either.
Someone who has plenty of experience and who has just never
1
experienced being approached or having attention directed to them is
totally different, in the same way someone that doesn&#039t want to ma
approaches for whatever reason.
There are people farther along on the path who may have just decided
that; "Hey, this is never going to happen", but there&#039s also a lot of
people just starting the journey who could benefit from looking at their ow
behaviors, biases, etc and if they come to the outcome that it&#039ll nev
happen after exhausting all possibilities...fair enough.
It&#039s not about invalidating experiences as much as talking to people

who want to learn if it&#039s possible for them to have those experience
and how to recognize those situations and how to react. There&#039s n
promise those situations will happen.
△ ▽ • Share ›
trundlebear > James Gilmer • 2 years ago

For sure. I know people who have never/will likely never be cold
approached for various reasons, and I&#039d never blame them for it or
say it was a result of them not looking hard enough/thinking positively. B
they focus on things that let them shine like online dating or common
activities and hobbies. I feel bad because they&#039re wonderful people
but the world is not nice to a lot of people based just on first glance.
I am very rarely approached, and generally it&#039s either because I am

y y pp , g y
wearing a whole lotta nerd catnip as passive bait -- er, commonalities to
chat about -- or I am accidentally giving off "approach me" signals (I smil
and make eye contact downtown where both are basically forbidden,
neither of which are intentional beyond "I am happy today" and "Eyes up
and forward = not dying in the salmon run of downtown pedestrian traffic
△ ▽ • Share ›
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164
Starleitmotif > trundlebear • 2 years ago
Don&#039t really have anything to add to this, but I wanted to say that
s
Tweet
"the salmon run of downtown pedestrian traffic" may be my new favorite
phrase.
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mediumballpoint > Marty Farley • 2 years ago
Of course, that&#039s entirely possible as well. I was merely suggesting
that GB rule out other possible explanations (e.g., s/he may isolate
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themselves in social situations, be too busy managing his/her own anxie
to notice others&#039 interactions with them, be prone to misinterpreting
signals of interest, etc.) before concluding that s/he&#039s never the
q
recipient of signals of interest. If s/he&#039s done that work, then sure,
it&#039s absolutely a fair conclusion.
Stumble
Essentially, what James said. :)
h1
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Kylroy > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

Then...leave women alone?
△ ▽ • Share ›
eselle28 > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

1. Consider whether you spend enough time in public. If your life is work, commuting,
and TV, that might be the problem.
2. If that doesn&#039t work or doesn&#039t apply, go through the archives and read
about various ways to be more attractive and more visible.
3. If that doesn&#039t work or doesn&#039t apply, then you&#039re not someone who
can make cold approaches. Stick to warm ones or online dating.
△ ▽ • Share ›
LeeEsq > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

Online dating or some other sort of activity explicitly organized around the idea of findin
a mate. People generally participate in online dating or singles events with the intent of
actually looking for a romantic partner. If you go to these events than chances are you
can read anything with a sign of generosity rather than caution.
△ ▽ • Share ›
Bas Kleijweg • 2 years ago

In my experience, there&#039s also the possibility that all these signals are flirty but not
i t d dt i i t t
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/5-signs-women-want-you-to-approach-them/
b i f i dl d Thi i tb d 20/26
intended to convene serious interest, or peeps being friendly and open. This is not bad,
it&#039s not a race against the cock, and new contacts=new friend circles/short-term validatio
of safety if other dudes or dudettes step into the convo.
△ ▽ • Share ›
Wondering_ • 2 years ago
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164
Just because it shows up so often in this blog and as a copy-editor it drives me crazy.
Discrete: separate, distinct

Discreet: careful, low key
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I am being a pedant, I know. But I just can&#039t take it anymore! :)
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92 Comments Paging Dr. NerdLove 

I C3PO what you did there :-D

Caliseivy • 2 years ago

Wondering_ > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago

You need to watch for more than one sign.

Eliza Jane > Wondering_ • 2 years ago

YoshiLand > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago

Wondering_ > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago

I admit I&#039ve been reading every unwelcome or potentially unwelcom

James Gilmer > Wondering_ • 2 years ago

It&#039s always possible to misread a situation though, which is why

Lara Garbero Tais > Eliza Jane • 2 years ago

Eliza Jane > Lara Garbero Tais • 2 years ago

Eliza Jane > sathania • 2 years ago

Gentleman Johnny > sathania • 2 years ago

James Gilmer • 2 years ago

YoshiLand • 2 years ago

Kylroy > dyson618 • 2 years ago

enail0_o > dyson618 • 2 years ago

GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

YoshiLand > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

Marty Farley > YoshiLand • 2 years ago

Gentleman Johnny > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

trundlebear > Gentleman Johnny • 2 years ago

Meanwhile, there&#039s nothing about them from first glance, be it

Marty Farley > Gentleman Johnny • 2 years ago

enail0_o > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

James Gilmer > enail0_o • 2 years ago

Gentleman Johnny > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

GothamBuddha > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

I&#039m not a negative person. I&#039ve faced some horrible things in

This is entirely reasonable and constructive and I have no problem with

enail0_o > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

Marty Farley > enail0_o • 2 years ago

Granted, this is a button-press issue of mine, but I hate how nearly

Eliza Jane > Marty Farley • 2 years ago

mediumballpoint > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

Marty Farley > mediumballpoint • 2 years ago

James Gilmer > trundlebear • 2 years ago

It&#039s not about invalidating experiences as much as talking to people

trundlebear > James Gilmer • 2 years ago

I am very rarely approached, and generally it&#039s either because I am

Kylroy > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

eselle28 > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

LeeEsq > GothamBuddha • 2 years ago

Bas Kleijweg • 2 years ago

Wondering_ • 2 years ago

Discrete: separate, distinct

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