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21 November 2007 - Morning session FAQ
Press notices
1 Wednesday, 21st November 2007 Biography
2 (10.00 am) Costs
3 (Jury present) Contacts
General Information about the Inquests
4 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Good morning, members of the
5 jury. It will be Mr Gibbins first, please.
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6 MR MICHAEL EDWARD STANLEY GIBBINS (sworn) Surrey Coroner's Court
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Would you prefer to sit giving
8 your evidence, Mr Gibbins? Site information
9 A. That would be fine. Thank you. Access keys
10 Questions from MR BURNETT Privacy
11 MR BURNETT: Is your full name Michael Edward Stanley Sitemap
12 Gibbins?
13 A. Yes, it is. Français
14 Q. Are you now retired, but a justice of the peace and Introduction
15 involved in various aspects of voluntary work? Biographie
16 A. That is right. FAQs
17 Q. In August 1996, were you appointed private secretary to Rôle du coroner
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18 the Princess of Wales? Personnes intéressées et leurs
19 A. My official title was comptroller, but in effect, yes. représentants juridiques
20 Q. Forgive me. Prior to that, had you been an accountant Information sur les Enquetes conduites par
21 with the well-known international and London firm KPMG le Coroner
22 for 30 years?
23 A. Yes, I was.
24 Q. Before being appointed as comptroller of the Princess's
25 household, had you ever been in Crown service before?
1
1 A. No.
2 Q. And you were not a public servant before that
3 appointment?
4 A. No, I was not.
5 Q. Did that job essentially involve dealing with the
6 finances of the Princess and managing her office?
7 A. Yes, indeed.
8 Q. Now, Mr Gibbins, we are hearing evidence from you in
9 a section of the inquest which is dealing with the
10 embalming of the late Princess's body as a result of
11 suggestions made that it was done at the direction of
12 the British authorities. That is the context.
13 Might I ask you, before we come to that, one or two
14 other questions about background and circumstances?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. It is right, isn't it, that you made a statement on
17 1st September 2004 to Metropolitan Police officers in
18 connection with their inquiry into the deaths of the
19 Princess and Mr Al Fayed?
20 A. That is correct.
21 Q. That, of course, was exactly seven years after the
22 events with which we are concerned.
23 A. (Witness nods)
24 Q. In the period intervening, had you ever made a statement
25 in connection with the events of that night?
2
1 A. None that I recall.
2 Q. Now, in the course of that statement and in the course
3 of the questions that I and maybe others will ask you,
4 we will be seeking your best recollection of details
5 that occurred during the night of the 30th and
6 31st August 1997. Did you keep a contemporary note of
7 events as they unfolded over that night?
8 A. No, I did not.
9 Q. So in 2004, when making your statement, were you doing
10 your best to recollect events?
11 A. Yes, I was.
12 Q. Would I be right in assuming that as far as you were
13 concerned, the events of that day were fast-moving and
14 emotionally highly charged?
15 A. That would be right.
16 Q. Would you, in those circumstances, consider that your
17 recollection of precisely who said what to whom and who
18 telephoned whom would necessarily be absolutely
19 accurate?
20 A. I do not think they would be absolutely accurate, no.
21 Q. So you will help us by giving your best recollection of
22 those events?
23 A. Of course.
24 Q. In the months that you worked for the Princess,
25 essentially one year, did she ever discuss what one

3
1 might consider private matters with you?
2 A. Well, it depends where you draw that line, but basically
3 no.
4 Q. So yours was a professional relationship?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. But I think you would describe it as one where you got
7 on well?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. When the Princess was abroad, how frequently was it her
10 habit to telephone you to keep in touch?
11 A. Probably two or three times a week.
12 Q. And the purpose of those calls was generally what?
13 A. Just whether there was anything that I had to report to
14 her that had happened in the UK or in the office and to
15 confirm her movements when she would be coming back,
16 et cetera.
17 Q. In the days before she died, did you receive any
18 telephone calls from the Princess?
19 A. Yes, I did.
20 Q. Are you able to recollect when the last of those calls
21 was?
22 A. I think it was the Friday before she died.
23 Q. So that would be 29th August 1997?
24 A. I think so, yes.
25 Q. Are you able to recollect any of the content of the
4

1 discussion that you had with her?

2 A. She asked me whether I had anything to report, confirmed
3 that she would be coming back at the weekend and said
4 she was having a nice time.
5 Q. Now, can I take you forward to the events of
6 31st August? I think it is right that you had had a
7 dinner party at home and then gone to bed --
8 A. That is correct.
9 Q. -- unaware that anything had happened.
10 A. (Witness nods)
11 Q. But you got a telephone call at some point from
12 a News of the World journalist alerting you to the fact
13 that there had been an accident involving the Princess?
14 A. That is correct.
15 Q. Were there subsequently telephone calls from
16 Buckingham Palace giving you the same information?
17 A. Yes, there were.
18 Q. In response to those telephone calls, what did you then
19 do?
20 A. I went to the office at Kensington Palace, where
21 communications were rather better than they were at
22 home, because obviously something serious had occurred.
23 Q. Who else do you recollect being in the office during
24 the course of that night?
25 A. I went to the office with Jacqui Allen, who was the
5
1 Princess's secretary, who lived round the corner from
2 me. Most of the rest of the office staff turned up
3 during the course of that very early morning.
4 Paul Burrell, who was the Princess's butler, who lived
5 just down the road, came in, as did Colin Tebbutt, who
6 was one of the -- or the Princess's main driver.
7 Q. Was he an ex-Royal protection officer?
8 A. Yes, indeed.
9 Q. Are you able to recall the circumstances in which
10 Mr Tebbutt came to the office?
11 A. As far as I recall, he just turned up.
12 Q. I just ask you to jog your memory because his
13 recollection appears to be that you asked him to come
14 in. It may not be very significant, but there it is.
15 A. I do not recall doing so.
16 Q. No. Do you recollect receiving a call to inform you of
17 the death of the Princess?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. Where did that telephone come from?
20 A. It came from Balmoral.
21 Q. Are you able now to recall who made the telephone call?
22 A. I think it was Robin Janvrin, who was the deputy private
23 secretary to the Queen.
24 Q. I would imagine that everybody there would have been
25 stunned at that news.
6
1 A. Absolutely.
2 Q. Was it decided that someone or some people should go to
3 Paris?
4 A. Paul Burrell was determined that he wanted to go to
5 Paris. I have to say I was not entirely clear why he
6 needed to go to Paris, but in the circumstances I was
7 not going to stop him.
8 Q. And was a decision taken that someone should accompany
9 him?
10 A. Absolutely; Colin Tebbutt.
11 Q. In broad terms, why was that decision taken?
12 A. Two reasons, I think. Firstly to keep an eye on
13 Paul Burrell, who was understandably very distressed
14 indeed, and secondly to provide a link back to
15 the office, if needed, from Paris.
16 Q. We will hear from others, but they took a flight to
17 Paris in the early morning.
18 A. Yes, indeed.
19 Q. And that was a commercial flight?
20 A. Yes, I am sure it was.
21 Q. You had been in the office all night essentially. Did
22 you return home for a short break?
23 A. I did.
24 Q. Was that at about half past 7 or 8 o'clock in
25 the morning?
7

1 A. I would think so, yes.

2 Q. But did you return to the office at some point in the
3 mid-morning at 11 or 11.30?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. Are you able to give us an indication generally of
6 the atmosphere in the office and what was happening?
7 A. Well, I think everyone was very upset indeed.
8 The telephones were constantly ringing from all sorts of
9 places; from the media, from friends of the Princess and
10 indeed from Paris.
11 Q. Was your principal function then to be fielding
12 telephone calls?
13 A. Amongst the other members of staff, yes.
14 Q. Once you were back in the office after 11 to 11.30, did
15 Colin Tebbutt call ever?
16 A. Several times, yes.
17 Q. Do you remember having any discussion with him about
18 the presentability of the body of the Princess?
19 A. Yes, I do. He rang on one occasion and said that the
20 room in which the Princess was was hot and there was
21 overhead lighting and he was concerned that there was
22 some deterioration in the Princess's body and that steps
23 should be taken to make it presentable for the people
24 who were flying from the UK, the Princess's family and
25 indeed Prince Charles, to make it presentable for them
8

1 when they arrived.

2 Q. Did he, in any sense, pass on to you what was being
3 discussed or suggested by the hospital authorities at
4 that end?
5 A. I think no more than said that it was felt that steps
6 should be taken to make the body presentable.
7 Q. What was your reaction to that?
8 A. I think I said that if that was the advice from the
9 hospital, then that should be done.
10 Q. Was there any other motive in suggesting that something
11 should be done, other than the presentability of the
12 Princess's body before people came to see her?
13 A. None at all.
14 Q. Did you have any discussion that you can now recollect
15 about the detail of what was proposed should happen?
16 A. None at all.
17 Q. At what stage did you learn that the Princess's body was
18 to be repatriated that day?
19 A. I think some time in the afternoon, I cannot be more
20 precise than that, when I received a call from, again,
21 Robin Janvrin in Balmoral to suggest that I should go to
22 Northolt to be in the receiving line.
23 Q. And that is what you did?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. Did you then accompany the Princess's body from

9
1 Northolt?
2 A. Well, there was a convoy of three or four cars and I was
3 in one of them, yes.
4 Q. At that stage, did you learn that the body of the
5 Princess was to be conveyed to Fulham mortuary?
6 A. I did.
7 Q. Did you at any stage during the course of that day learn
8 that a post-mortem examination was to be carried out?
9 A. I think I was told that at the mortuary by, I think
10 it was, Dr Burton.
11 Q. Now can I turn to one other topic? Had you, in
12 the course of your duties, ever accompanied the
13 Princess of Wales in a car?
14 A. Yes, indeed.
15 Q. On roughly how many occasions?
16 A. Probably 20.
17 Q. On those occasions, was it her habit to wear a seat
18 belt?
19 A. Always, yes.
20 Q. What about your habit?
21 A. She made me put on a seat belt as well, yes.
22 MR BURNETT: Thank you very much, Mr Gibbins. There will be
23 questions from others.
24 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Mansfield?
25 MR MANSFIELD: Yes, thank you.
10

1 Questions from MR MANSFIELD

2 A. Now, Mr Gibbins, my name is Michael Mansfield.
3 I represent Mohamed Al Fayed, whose son was killed in
4 the crash.
5 I am sorry to have to tax your memory because it is
6 ten years ago and I appreciate it may be difficult, but
7 please say if it becomes difficult and I will phrase the
8 question --
9 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Can you hear all right, members
10 of the jury? Mr Mansfield is talking quite quietly and
11 he is a long away from you, but of course the witness is
12 close to him.
13 MR MANSFIELD: Normally I do not because there is a Paris
14 link.
15 I am sorry, you are very close to me. It is
16 seductive to have a conversation, but I will try to
17 avoid that. If anybody cannot hear, please say.
18 I was just apologising for the fact that I was going
19 to have to ask you questions about ten years ago.
20 Would this be right, before we get to the 31st and
21 the 30th, one of the things you would have been
22 concerned to keep an eye on was in fact, because of your
23 job, her movements? In other words, you would need to
24 know where she was from time to time; perhaps not every
25 detail, but in general terms?
11

1 A. In general terms, yes.

2 Q. For these purposes, did you keep a diary, either
3 possibly an ordinary handwritten one in those days or
4 perhaps an electronic one? Did you keep a diary?
5 A. Personally?
6 Q. Well, for the purposes of ensuring that you knew where
7 she was and she knew where she was, if you know what
8 I mean.
9 A. Well, I had my own diary and she had her diary, yes.
10 Q. The diary that you had, would it reflect movements for
11 example?
12 A. In detail, no; in general terms, yes.
13 Q. Right. Have you seen that diary since you left
14 employment there?
15 A. I do not know. I cannot remember. I know where it is.
16 Q. You do? The reason I ask you is this: when you
17 obviously came to make a statement many years after
18 the event to the Metropolitan Police -- I am just
19 checking the date, it is 1st September 2004 -- did they
20 ask about the diary?
21 A. Not that I recall.
22 Q. Or show you a copy of it?
23 A. I am sure they did not show me a copy.
24 Q. No. The reason again I ask -- it may be obvious, of
25 course -- is that might assist with various dates and

12
1 movements. Do you follow?
2 A. Yes, I do.
3 Q. Where is the diary?
4 A. I suspect it is at Althorp, the Spencer family home.
5 Q. Well, can I put that to one side for the moment, because
6 it is not here and you don't have it so ...
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Are you asking about the
8 Princess's diary or Mr Gibbins' diary?
9 MR MANSFIELD: Mr Gibbins' diary.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: So you think that is at Althorp?
11 A. I think so, sir. I obviously cannot be certain.
12 MR MANSFIELD: Just in relation to the Princess's diary,
13 would you yourself see that diary or you just knew she
14 kept one?
15 A. I knew she kept one. I did not see it.
16 Q. Where did she keep it?
17 A. In her house.
18 Q. Sorry, do you know where in her house she kept it?
19 A. No, I do not.
20 Q. Do you know where she kept any personal letters?
21 A. She had a study and I would assume that she kept them
22 there, but I do not know.
23 Q. Please understand, I am not asking for assumptions or
24 speculations.
25 A. Right. Well I do not know then.

13

1 Q. I will make it clear, the particular topic. Letters

2 from the Duke of Edinburgh, did you ever see any?
3 A. No, I did not.
4 Q. Did you ever see where they were kept?
5 A. No, I did not.
6 Q. Before today, has anybody ever asked you about this?
7 A. Letters from the Duke of Edinburgh?
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Just to make this perhaps a little easier for yourself
11 and hopefully for the learned Coroner and the jury,
12 we do have a chronology that is relevant for
13 the summer -- do you follow -- dates. I do not know
14 whether you have seen it.
15 Sir, I wonder if he might have a copy of the
16 chronology that the jury have in tab 1.
17 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes. Do we have a spare copy of
18 this? I would certainly have mine photocopied if that
19 would help.
20 MR MANSFIELD: I thought there was a jury bundle available
21 for the witness box. There was earlier on.
22 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Foley is not in court this
23 morning and he may have the answer to that.
24 MR MANSFIELD: There is a copy of the chronology.
25 Do you mind if I just hand it to you?
14

1 A. No, not a bit.

2 Q. Now, we see the dates here that are set out -- and
3 the jury will follow -- that the visit that the Princess
4 and her sons made to Mohamed Al Fayed, the first visit,
5 takes place on 11th July through to the 20th. Do you
6 see that?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. Now that is what I want to ask you about first of all.
9 Again, I have it in the context that it may be difficult
10 to remember precise dates.
11 How long before this trip were you aware that she
12 had been invited?
13 A. I would guess a month.
14 Q. A month?
15 A. I would guess. Some weeks.
16 Q. Now is it right to say that you were aware at that time
17 that there had been a closeness between the Princess and
18 the Al Fayed family?
19 A. It depends what you mean by "closeness", but I was aware
20 that they knew each other, let's put it that way.
21 Q. I am using your word, you see. That is why I am putting
22 it to you. Do you recall, this is how you put it in
23 a statement to the police in 2004:
24 "I was aware that there was a certain closeness
25 between the Princess and the Al Fayeds."

15
1 Is that right?
2 A. I do not disagree with that.
3 Q. When you learned of the invitation about a month or so
4 before, there were two concerns that you had, were there
5 not?
6 A. (Witness nods)
7 Q. One related to her security --
8 A. Indeed.
9 Q. -- and of course that of her sons if they were going to
10 go.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Secondly, you were concerned about the possibility of
13 negative press reports.
14 A. Indeed.
15 Q. That is even before any relationship with Dodi?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now, I want to deal with these two aspects if I may.
18 The negative press reports, that is the first one I want
19 to deal with. You took up your job in August 1996.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Patrick Jephson, who had had the job prior to you, had
22 left in the January; is that right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Had you had any meetings with him to brief you about
25 this job?
16

1 A. None at all.
2 Q. So we are dealing with, if the chronology obviously is
3 right, about a month before, so sometime in June. So by
4 June 1997, were you aware that there was a level of
5 disapproval of Diana and the relationships that she had
6 had in the past?
7 A. With whom?
8 Q. Well, I can name the people if you wish. I do not want
9 to go through the list. Barry Mannakee, James Hewitt,
10 James Gilbey, Oliver Hoare, Will Carling and so on.
11 A. Yes indeed.
12 Q. Why did you ask me "with whom"?
13 A. Because you did not say who you were talking about.
14 Q. No, no. But you were aware of all of those or you were
15 aware of the disapproval and you were aware that
16 the disapproval was not just in the tabloid press, but
17 in fact was coming from the Royal Household?
18 A. I am not sure that I was directly aware of that, but by
19 inference certainly.
20 Q. Your concern was that the same might happen again in
21 relation to any visit to the Al Fayeds?
22 A. Yes, indeed.
23 Q. Was this because you believed that certain members of
24 the Royal Household disapproved of Mohamed Al Fayed?
25 A. No, it was not.

17
1 Q. It was not that. Or Dodi Al Fayed?
2 A. No.
3 Q. So it was, at that stage, a general recognition of
4 the risks?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Just on this aspect of it, when you told her that, what
7 was her reaction?
8 A. I cannot recall. I do not think there was much of
9 a reaction actually.
10 Q. Well, if I may say, I noticed you looking down and
11 smiling gently to yourself. Is it because you do
12 remember a reaction and you don't want to --
13 A. No, it is not. It is just the way the Princess used to
14 behave on that sort of comment. She didn't react. She
15 took it on board, but did not react.
16 Q. Just on the same point, if I may. I am talking about
17 negative press. In fact would this be right -- I do not
18 want to go through every single one -- what happened
19 throughout August was that -- I had better ask you this
20 first. Do you read the daily press?
21 A. Yes -- well I did then anyway.
22 Q. In fact you probably considered that part of your
23 duty --
24 A. Yes, indeed.
25 Q. -- to monitor what they were saying, not just the
18
1 tabloids but the broadsheets and everything else?
2 A. All the papers.
3 Q. All the papers, television, radio, as much as you could?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. What actually happened from the period starting in July
6 but particularly in August, her name was in the
7 headlines regularly, wasn't it?
8 A. It was.
9 Q. As you anticipated, quite a lot of it was negative,
10 wasn't it?
11 A. It was.
12 Q. The negative publicity that she was getting, much of it
13 concerned her relationship with Dodi Al Fayed.
14 A. Yes, it did.
15 Q. The general theme was effectively that she was being
16 irresponsible having a relationship with somebody who at
17 least the tabloids regarded as a playboy.
18 A. That was certainly the drift, yes.
19 Q. That is the drift. Of course it would be par for
20 the course that if you are following the tabloids and
21 the media with great interest, there would be somebody
22 similar to yourself, the private secretary to the Royal
23 Household -- did you have contact with him on occasion?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Do you remember who it was?
19
1 A. Robert Fellowes.
2 Q. He would be doing the same for the Royal Family,
3 wouldn't he?
4 A. Yes -- well, for the Queen.
5 Q. Do you remember that this adverse publicity reached
6 a peak on 31st August when it was being claimed publicly
7 that the Royal Family were going to disown Harrods and
8 withdraw their crest of approval?
9 A. I do not remember that, no.
10 Q. You don't remember that?
11 A. No.
12 Q. It was on 31st August that publicity was given to it,
13 whether true or not. Do you follow? But you don't
14 remember that?
15 A. I do not actually.
16 Q. Now, just moving back for a moment to -- it is another
17 aspect of negative press reports. Of course, there were
18 other facets of Diana's life which drew disapproval,
19 weren't there, beside her relationships?
20 A. There was -- certain of the causes that she espoused
21 were not popular in all quarters.
22 Q. Well, you are very discreet, if I may put it that way.
23 A. Thank you.
24 Q. Can you recall now which the causes were?
25 A. I think the main one that drew criticism was her
20
1 campaign against anti-personnel landmines.
2 Q. That had in fact mushroomed or blossomed, however you
3 put it, in 1996, while you were her private secretary?
4 A. Towards the end of 1996, yes.
5 Q. And certainly into 1997?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Because, just to give you an example, in January 1997
8 she paid a very public visit to Angola, did she not?
9 A. I think it was December 1996, but she certainly went to
10 Angola.
11 Q. I want to put to you that it was January 1997, but
12 I will not take up time with particular dates. Besides
13 that cause, was there certain disapproval in certain
14 quarters, as you put it, about the way she was exposing
15 her emotional life? The particular example I want to
16 put to you is the Martin Bashir interview on Panorama
17 that had taken place. First of all, do you remember
18 that interview?
19 A. I do. It was before I was employed.
20 Q. I appreciate that. It was before you were employed,
21 1995, but the ramifications of that were still being
22 felt in 1996, were they not?
23 A. Oh yes.
24 Q. So that is an aspect or aspects of one of your reasons.
25 Now, the other one was security. Having been told of
21

1 this invitation a month or so before, can you remember

2 or were you aware of what steps were being taken by
3 the authorities with regard to this visit?
4 A. Which authorities are you talking about?
5 Q. I want, in particular, to ask you about particular
6 individuals so that it may put it in context for you.
7 Do you recall a police officer -- well he would have
8 been known as a commander of SO14, the Royal protection
9 unit. Do you remember him?
10 A. I do not without a name.
11 Q. The name is Mr Davies.
12 A. It means nothing to me.
13 Q. David Davies?
14 A. I do not recall him.
15 Q. You don't recall his name and you don't recall having
16 any contact with him?
17 A. No.
18 Q. I want to ask you these questions rather carefully.
19 Were you aware that he knew about the visit in July,
20 not through you, but through intelligence? Did you know
21 that?
22 A. No, I did not.
23 Q. Does it surprise you?
24 A. Yes, it does a bit.
25 Q. I want to ask you about the actions that he took to see
22

1 if you knew about any of them. Did you know that,

2 having validated the intelligence, he had gone to
3 a Deputy Assistant Commissioner called Fry. Did you
4 know him?
5 A. No, I did not.
6 Q. Did you know that he had done that?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Who had then gone to the Commissioner of Police,
9 Sir Paul Condon; did you know that?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Did you know that he had then gone to see the organised
12 crime group who gave him a briefing on Mr Al Fayed? Did
13 you know that?
14 A. No, I did not.
15 Q. Does this all come as a complete surprise?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. The further step he took was to inform the Queen, who
18 said she already knew. Did you know that?
19 A. No, I did not.
20 Q. What was your understanding of what happened or what
21 should happen in relation to a trip abroad or a journey
22 abroad or a holiday or whatever it is? In this
23 particular case, obviously it is a holiday abroad. Was
24 there a protocol for this?
25 A. For holidays, no.

23
1 Q. There was not.
2 A. For other trips abroad, for -- like the visit to Angola
3 that you referred to, police protection officers were
4 involved in detail in the planning and accompanied
5 the trip. The difference on this holiday, of course,
6 was that the two young Princes were going, which did
7 involve greater attention to security than would have
8 been the case had the Princess been going on her own.
9 Q. Now were you aware that in fact accompanying the
10 Princess was not limited to when the sons went with her,
11 was it?
12 A. Accompanying her?
13 Q. In other words, the provision of protection officers was
14 not limited to occasions on which she went with her
15 sons.
16 A. No, it was not.
17 Q. It was not limited to that. Now, what is your
18 recollection of -- well, I will take it in stages. We
19 will deal with a holiday with her sons first of all.
20 What was the protocol for that?
21 A. I think the normal procedure was that the visit was
22 accompanied by police protection officers.
23 Q. Were you kept informed of who they were?
24 A. I think I generally knew who they were.
25 Q. How far in advance were you told of all of this or were
24
1 you told after the event, as it were, after they had
2 actually left?
3 A. Well, there was a certain amount of planning for any
4 trip and a police protection officer, one or more, would
5 be assigned to the trip. So I knew in advance the names
6 of the individuals concerned.
7 Q. So you knew in advance the names of the individuals
8 concerned. Were you aware that, in fact, visits like
9 this would require Cabinet Office security clearance?
10 A. I was not aware of that.
11 Q. You were not aware of that?
12 A. No.
13 Q. I want to ask you about another name in case this is
14 a name you do know. Mr Colin Haywood-Trimming?
15 A. I know that name.
16 Q. You do know that name; do you recall having liaison or
17 conversation with him?
18 A. I do not believe I have ever spoken to him, no.
19 Q. So that it is clear who he was, he was head of
20 a protection team deputed to deal with the Princess, but
21 also other members like Prince Charles and so on. Do
22 you follow? That was his particular responsibility.
23 A. I think he was head of that group of police.
24 Q. That is right, yes. Team number 2 or however it was
25 defined.
25
1 Just again to put it in context, you presumably were
2 aware that the Princess had dispensed with personal
3 protection officers a little time before you came into
4 her employment.
5 A. Yes, indeed.
6 Q. That is partly because she felt they were intruding on
7 her life.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. But, of course, dispensing with protection officers does
10 not necessarily entail that all surveillance would end,
11 does it?
12 A. Not necessarily, no.
13 Q. Because she is the mother of a future potential heir to
14 the throne, isn't she?
15 A. She is.
16 Q. There are all sorts of risks that might be attached, for
17 example one of the most obvious might be a kidnap
18 attempt and a ransom and so forth; that is a fairly
19 obvious risk.
20 A. I suppose so.
21 Q. Yes. Were you aware that the authorities, by which
22 I mean police and security services, would make threat
23 assessments?
24 A. I was not aware of that.
25 Q. You were not aware of that. It appears that -- and so
26
1 I make it clear to you, I want to see if you were aware
2 of this -- as far as Mr Trimming was concerned, if the
3 Princess of Wales went abroad on a high-profile visit,
4 both the Embassy and the Foreign Office were alerted.
5 Now did you know that?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. In other words, irrespective of the children, if it is
8 a high-profile visit. How was a "high-profile visit"
9 defined, do you know?
10 A. In the time that I worked there, I think it would have
11 been a visit that had -- it was classed as official and
12 it would typically be related to one of her charities.
13 Q. So --
14 A. It was not, for example, a private holiday.
15 Q. Would it relate to a visit to a private funeral abroad?
16 A. In a private capacity, I think it probably would not.
17 Q. Does it surprise you that in fact it was set up for her
18 visit to Milan, which we will come to in a moment?
19 A. It would surprise me. I did not know that.
20 Q. So would it be fair to say that you may not have been
21 kept in the loop as to what others were getting up to?
22 Would that be fair, in terms of her security,
23 surveillance and so on?
24 A. Very fair, I would say.
25 Q. Now, just going back to the chronology, in fact the date
27

1 of her visit to Milan to attend a funeral was on

2 22nd July. I am going to suggest to you, unknown to
3 you, she did have personal protection on that particular
4 visit.
5 I want to move on from that. Would you turn over
6 the page? Presumably you knew about the visit to Paris,
7 did you, on 26th July?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Again you knew about that a little in advance because
10 she told you or did you know after the event or what?
11 A. I honestly cannot recall which way round it was.
12 I think it was probably after the event.
13 Q. Now, that was quite short. The next visit, the 31st
14 to 6th, again you would have known about that visit?
15 A. Yes, indeed.
16 Q. Now were you aware that in the British Embassy in Paris
17 there was an officer whose role or definition appears to
18 have been "visits officer"? Did you know that?
19 A. No, I did not.
20 Q. So you never had any liaison with him or her from time
21 to time?
22 A. Not that I recall.
23 Q. Now we have already been through this particular visit
24 and it is obvious on the 4th there is a kiss photograph.
25 This attracted considerable publicity, did it not?
28

1 A. It did, yes.
2 Q. Therefore it would be difficult for anyone to say,
3 whether in the Embassy or out of it, let alone the
4 security services, that they were unaware that Diana was
5 in France.
6 A. Absolutely.
7 Q. In fact, every step of the way, as far as one can tell
8 from the reporting, paparazzi followed her every breath
9 and step, did they not?
10 A. It would seem so.
11 Q. She comes back, and then, on 8th August, she goes to
12 Bosnia. This was an official visit, was it not?
13 A. It was.
14 Q. Can I just see if this was right? She was intending to
15 go to Russia, but that, for security reasons, was
16 canceled and switched to Bosnia. Is that right or not?
17 A. I do not think it was Russia. I think it was Cambodia.
18 Q. Sorry, I may have got the destination wrong. So one
19 destination was canceled for this one. Is it right that
20 she went with a very well-known public figure,
21 journalist, called Bill Deedes.
22 A. It was, yes, he went.
23 Q. Now what were the arrangements for this visit, as far as
24 you can recall?
25 A. In what respect?

29
1 Q. I do not have details but perhaps they will be provided.
2 What was provided for her on this, either with or
3 without her knowledge?
4 A. I do not understand the question. Sorry.
5 Q. Was a personal protection officer provided?
6 A. Yes, I think so.
7 Q. Again, I do not expect at this length of time you would
8 know the names, but would your diary have recorded this
9 kind of detail?
10 A. No, I do not think my diary necessarily would, but there
11 would have been a file putting the visit together, as it
12 were, putting the arrangements together, and the name of
13 the police protection officer would almost certainly be
14 in that file.
15 Q. You see, it is obvious, but I had better state it
16 clearly: she did not go with her children, did she,
17 because they were elsewhere?
18 A. They were, yes.
19 Q. Now, the file that was being put together for this
20 visit, have you seen that since?
21 A. Since when?
22 Q. Sorry, since you left employment.
23 A. No, I have not.
24 Q. Where would the file, as it were, prepared for the visit
25 be put?

30
1 A. That was an official visit, so it should be in the Royal
2 archives at Windsor.
3 Q. In how much detail would the file go into, as it were,
4 on this visit? Would it just have a few details of who
5 the protection officer was, the time of leaving,
6 the time of return, that sort of thing or ...
7 A. Where the Princess would be staying, who she would be
8 meeting. I think the visit was put together in fairly
9 quick order, but these files generally had quite a lot
10 of detailed information on them.
11 Q. Now, taking that one as an example, the information on
12 the visit, to whom was the information provided as far
13 as you are aware or was it something you just kept to
14 yourself?
15 A. It was available in the office, it was available to
16 the police protection officers. Certain bits of it
17 certainly would have been available to Bill Deedes.
18 I think the visit was sponsored by a landmines group --
19 Q. It was, yes.
20 A. They would have had certain details. The file was
21 a confidential file, for obvious reasons, but those who
22 needed to know particular bits of the journey and what
23 was going to be done were told.
24 Q. So would it be fair to say that this would extend to
25 the Foreign and Commonwealth Office?
31
1 A. I have a recollection that for those sort of visits,
2 the consent of the FCO had to be obtained and I assume
3 it was in this case. I cannot actually remember.
4 Q. Special branch?
5 A. Not through the office, no.
6 Q. Security services?
7 A. Well, that is the police protection officers. They
8 would have dealt with anything from that angle.
9 Q. So the protection officers would have been in liaison
10 with the security services?
11 A. I do not know. But if anyone was going to, I
12 would guess it would have been them.
13 Q. All right. Then we have on the 15th -- I am just
14 looking at the chronology, sorry. It is just easier
15 because the dates are all there. She goes on a holiday
16 with Rosa Monckton and returns on the 20th. Then on
17 the 22nd, if you turn over the page, she flies to
18 France.
19 I want to deal with this second trip. As far as
20 that one is concerned, again her movements you would
21 have known, would you not?
22 A. I would have known in the sense of knowing when she was
23 departing and when she was planning to return.
24 The detailed movements in between, no, I would not have
25 been privy.
32

1 Q. All right. Now as far as that visit is concerned,

2 I think you have made it clear -- the way you have put
3 it before and the way you put it today -- is that you
4 confirmed with her on the last time you spoke to her on
5 29th, I believe, the Friday -- you confirmed that she
6 was coming back that weekend.
7 A. That is what she told me.
8 Q. Yes. So would it be fair to say that as far as you are
9 concerned, the plan was to return that weekend?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. I am sorry, these are rather obvious questions, but
12 it is because of what other people may say.
13 Of course you would need to know at the very least
14 when she was coming back in case there were other
15 engagements or commitments that might crop up?
16 A. Absolutely.
17 Q. So you are the one person that needs to know exactly
18 when she is coming back?
19 A. I do not think I am the only person, but I am one of the
20 people.
21 Q. All right. Can you remember exactly when -- I am sorry,
22 it is a very specific question for so long ago, but do
23 you happen to remember when it was or would the diary
24 tell us when she was due back that weekend?
25 A. I recall it was the weekend. I cannot be any more

33
1 specific.
2 Q. But the diary would be specific?
3 A. Not necessarily. I think that the issue as far as I was
4 concerned was that she would be at home on Monday
5 morning when the office opened.
6 Q. Monday 1st?
7 A. Yes, that would be right.
8 Q. Now, when you spoke to her -- I do respect and
9 appreciate the fact that you have said very clearly she
10 did not discuss her inner-most feelings with you, but
11 nevertheless, as far as you were able to tell, she
12 was -- I think the word you have used, so may I use
13 it -- that she was her normal very bubbly self --
14 A. Absolutely, yes.
15 Q. -- and was having a good time?
16 A. That was the sense I got, certainly.
17 Q. Now, I just want to ask you this: from what you are
18 saying, it is possible you did not know, but I want to
19 ask whether you did. Did you know that she was coming
20 home via Paris?
21 A. I did not know that, no.
22 Q. But again, from your point of view, it would not have
23 made much difference?
24 A. No. I think the important point was that she was coming
25 home.

34
1 Q. Because one of the things, would you accept this, that
2 she was obviously concerned about was getting back to
3 her children?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. In that week before the 29th, did you have any other
6 contact with her, do you recall?
7 A. I am sure I did.
8 Q. Would it have been on a daily basis?
9 A. Probably not a daily basis, but I would be surprised if
10 I did not speak to her every other day at least.
11 Q. Now, was your habit to make a note of the nature of
12 the communication? I do not mean every word she spoke,
13 but would you jot down, either in a diary or a log or
14 some other memorandum, you know, "Spoke to Princess at
15 10 am, seemed fine" or whatever? Did you keep that kind
16 of --
17 A. No, I did not, but if I was asked to do anything in
18 particular, I would obviously have made a note of that
19 and got on and done it.
20 Q. Again, I know it is difficult, but do you recall being
21 asked to do anything specific in the days that led up to
22 the 29th when she confirmed that she was coming back?
23 A. I cannot recall anything specific now.
24 Q. All right. Now again, if there were specific
25 instructions of any kind or requests, they might be in

35
1 the diary?
2 A. Unlikely.
3 Q. So what would they be in?
4 A. They would have been on a sort of list of things to do,
5 bits of paper.
6 Q. All right. Can you confirm this, that the Princess was
7 a prolific letter and memo writer?
8 A. I have heard that said, yes.
9 Q. I do not know whether that is diplomatic language for
10 "I cannot confirm or deny" or whether you are saying
11 "yes, I do know that" or what. It is not a criticism.
12 It is merely just to establish.
13 A. She was -- yes, I think she was an avid correspondent.
14 Q. Would she ask for your help with regard to the letters
15 at all that she had to write?
16 A. No.
17 Q. She did all of that --
18 A. Well, occasionally she asked me to draft letters for
19 her, yes, which would have been generally in connection
20 with official visits or letters to her charities, that
21 sort of thing.
22 Q. Just moving on again, you then get news of what has
23 happened. Now, over that period of time, in other
24 words, from the moment you learn of the terrible
25 happening in Paris, first of all, how much contact did

36
1 you have with Buckingham Palace do you recall?
2 A. I think it was actually Balmoral because the Household
3 was up there. I recall trying to telephone Balmoral
4 whilst I was still at home on that night.
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. I do not think that I got through because the lines were
7 absolutely jammed, but I told the switchboard that I was
8 going to the office and then there were some calls from
9 Balmoral to the office.
10 Q. Then after that?
11 A. There were a number of calls.
12 Q. All right. I am not going into any of the detail with
13 you over that. Now you have been asked a little about
14 people who went out, and you said first of all that
15 Mr Burrell wanted to go.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. I think you added that you could not see the necessity
18 for him to go.
19 A. Indeed. That is right.
20 Q. Because ...?
21 A. I saw no point in him going. What was he going to do?
22 Q. Did he tell you what he was going to do?
23 A. Well, he was very distressed and distraught --
24 Q. I understand.
25 A. -- so he was not entirely coherent. He said he wanted

37

1 to look after the Princess.

2 Q. Yes. You thought it advisable to send someone else to
3 keep an eye on him?
4 A. I did indeed, yes.
5 Q. You had quite a lot of contact with Mr Tebbutt, who went
6 with Mr Burrell?
7 A. He rang me on a number of occasions from Paris, yes.
8 Q. Was he concerned about Mr Burrell's condition in Paris?
9 A. Yes, he was.
10 Q. Now, on the issue of embalming -- I make it clear, I am
11 not suggesting that you gave any orders for embalming at
12 all. In fact, was the word ever used? I know it is
13 difficult.
14 A. I honestly don't recall.
15 Q. Were you ever asked to make contact with the Princess's
16 family to see whether they were agreeable to any form of
17 invasive treatment that may be required?
18 A. I was not asked to, but I felt that it would have been
19 the right thing to do if it were possible.
20 Q. Yes. So as far as you recollect, therefore, you were
21 never asked to make any enquiries along those lines?
22 A. I do not recollect being asked.
23 Q. No. Now just a little more. After all of these
24 terrible events, did you stay on in your post for
25 a while?

38

1 A. I did.
2 Q. Were you there in order to, as it were, tie up loose
3 ends or clear up various things?
4 A. I acted for the estate and, yes, tidied up loose ends,
5 yes. It is a good way of putting it.
6 Q. I have already asked you this question, but I ask it
7 again in this context: one of the loose ends is, of
8 course, her personal property and in particular letters
9 that had either been written to her or from her. Did
10 you have any dealings with any correspondence in the
11 aftermath of this?
12 A. Personal private correspondence?
13 Q. Yes.
14 A. Absolutely none at all.
15 Q. Do you know who did?
16 A. I would imagine, if anyone did, it would have been the
17 executors.
18 Q. Again you may not be able to help, but were the
19 apartments sealed up in any way?
20 A. On the evening of the crash or the early morning of the
21 crash, steps were taken to lock and seal the Princess's
22 apartments, yes.
23 Q. Who did that?
24 A. Colin Tebbutt and Paul Burrell.
25 Q. Now when were they unsealed?

39

1 A. Within the course of the next 48 hours.

2 Q. Again, who unsealed them?
3 A. Principally Paul Burrell, I think. I cannot be
4 categoric about that.
5 Q. Were you present at any stage when her property was in
6 any way examined or assembled and so on?
7 A. Not that I recall, no.
8 Q. Two more things only. Did the Princess, or for that
9 matter anyone else, ever communicate to you that one of
10 her concerns was that her phone calls and other
11 communications were being monitored?
12 A. She never expressed that concern, but her actions were
13 such, in terms of changing telephone numbers, that
14 it was clear that that was a concern to her, yes.
15 Q. The other matter is this: at any stage, as part of the
16 protocol or even non-protocol, the informality, were you
17 ever expected to report Diana's movements or her
18 activities to anyone else?
19 A. I certainly did not do so.
20 Q. That is not quite the answer.
21 A. I do not know what other people expected. I was never
22 asked directly to report on her movements. I was asked
23 to liaise with Buckingham Palace on official visit
24 programmes.
25 Q. Of the kind we have discussed already?

40

1 A. Indeed, and I attended meetings at Buckingham Palace to

2 ensure, for example, that a visit by the Princess did
3 not coincide with one by the Queen, for example.
4 Q. Right.
5 A. But I was never directly asked to report on her
6 movements and certainly never did so.
7 Q. I am asked to ask you one more thing, and I am sorry
8 about this.
9 As far as her generosity was concerned and the fact
10 that she was very generous as a person -- is that right?
11 A. I think so, yes.
12 Q. Were you aware of any particular gifts that she had made
13 particularly to Dodi?
14 A. I was not, no.
15 Q. Cufflinks?
16 A. I did not know that.
17 MR MANSFIELD: Thank you very much for your help.
18 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Weekes?
19 MR WEEKES: No questions, thank you, sir.
20 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Croxford?
21 MR CROXFORD: I had not intended to, sir, but may I ask one
22 question, sir?
23 Questions from MR CROXFORD
24 MR CROXFORD: Were you ever indirectly asked to report on
25 the Princess's movements?
41

1 A. No.
2 MR CROXFORD: Thank you, sir.
3 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Horwell?
4 Questions from MR HORWELL
5 MR HORWELL: The British Embassy will say that they were
6 unaware of the Princess's --
7 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Mr Horwell appears for
8 the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, in case you
9 were not aware of it.
10 MR HORWELL: Thank you, sir.
11 The British Embassy will say that they were unaware
12 of the Princess's visit to Paris.
13 A. Which one?
14 Q. On this occasion, 31st August.
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that that evidence is
17 wrong?
18 A. None at all, no.
19 Q. You did not know that the Princess was in Paris?
20 A. I did not.
21 Q. This was a personal holiday that the Princess was
22 having, not with her sons, of course. She did not have
23 protection officers with her. Does that surprise you?
24 A. Not at all.
25 Q. The presentability of the body of the Princess at
42

1 the Paris hospital, that became a major issue on

2 the Sunday, did it not?
3 A. I think it -- I do not know that I would call it a major
4 issue. It was an important issue, certainly.
5 Q. I am happy to describe it as such. An important issue
6 for those who were in Paris.
7 A. And for us in the office, yes.
8 Q. This is what you said in your statement of 1st September
9 2004. It is at page 5. You are referring to
10 a conversation with Colin Tebbutt and you said this:
11 "He also informed me that the room was very hot and
12 there was overhead lighting. There was concern over
13 the deterioration of the body with the heat and there
14 was some question of the hospital authorities trying to
15 preserve the Princess. My recollection of this
16 conversation with Colin was that the family were due to
17 arrive and that the Princess needed to be made to look
18 presentable. I said, 'Colin, thank you for reporting
19 that, you must follow what the hospital authorities say
20 and go with it'."
21 Does that record as accurately as one ever can in
22 these circumstances, Mr Gibbins, what Mr Tebbutt was
23 telling you?
24 A. Absolutely, yes.
25 Q. You continue in your statement:
43

1 "I have been asked if the word 'embalming' was ever

2 used. I cannot remember. I had so many calls. I can
3 however state that I never gave Colin Tebbutt directions
4 to have the Princess embalmed. I was never aware that
5 the Princess had undergone or was about to undergo any
6 form of embalming process."
7 Then these words:
8 "The issue was to make the Princess look presentable
9 for the arrival of the family."
10 A. That is correct.
11 Q. Was that uppermost in your mind?
12 A. Exactly, yes.
13 Q. And plainly uppermost in the mind of Colin Tebbutt and
14 those with him?
15 A. Yes, indeed.
16 Q. You were in fairly frequent communication with those in
17 Paris, is that right?
18 A. Relatively so, yes. I cannot remember how many
19 telephone calls there were, but there were a number.
20 Q. From everything that you heard that day, from everything
21 that was reported to you, is it your opinion that
22 everyone at the hospital attempted to do their best in
23 very difficult circumstances for the Princess and those
24 who were in shock and grief?
25 A. Absolutely, yes.
44

1 Q. You had been working with the Princess for just under
2 a year --
3 A. Just over a year.
4 Q. Just over by the time of her death. Were you aware of
5 any plan that she was going to announce her engagement
6 to Dodi on 1st September 1997?
7 A. No, I was not.
8 Q. Any discussion?
9 A. No, it is not the sort of thing that she would have
10 discussed with me.
11 Q. But were you aware --
12 A. No, I wasn't.
13 Q. -- of any such plan?
14 A. No.
15 MR HORWELL: Thank you.
16 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Any further questions?
17 Further questions from MR BURNETT
18 MR BURNETT: Yes, if I may.
19 Just a couple of matters. Mr Gibbins, you were
20 asked questions by my learned friend, Mr Mansfield,
21 about the two reasons that you had concerns about
22 the invitation that the Princess was contemplating
23 accepting and you were asked questions both about
24 security and negative press reports.
25 Now it may be that all in this room will remember

45
1 circumstances from 1997 that might have been in your
2 mind when you considered the question of negative press
3 reports, but you have been perhaps rather discreet about
4 them.
5 It is right, isn't it, that Mr Al Fayed, for good or
6 ill, was a very controversial figure in 1997?
7 A. Indeed, yes.
8 Q. Were there any particular matters of controversy
9 surrounding Mr Al Fayed that you had in mind when
10 thinking about negative press reports?
11 A. Well, I was aware that Mr Al Fayed had not always had
12 favourable press reports, and a concern that I had was
13 that if the Princess went on that particular holiday,
14 she might expect unfavourable press reports as a result.
15 Q. Now dealing in a little bit more detail with
16 the mechanics of organising a private holiday with the
17 Princes, can I simply explore that with you?
18 You have mentioned, although you cannot be sure,
19 that the subject was raised a number of weeks in advance
20 of the holiday itself, in the second week of July;
21 a month or three or four weeks.
22 A. Something like that. The Princess came into the office
23 and told me that she had received this invitation.
24 Q. Now, presumably, the first question for the Princess
25 would have been whether she wished to accept

46
1 the invitation.
2 A. Absolutely.
3 Q. Obviously, if she had decided against, that would have
4 been the end of matter.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What would have been the mechanics for arranging for
7 the Princes to join her on a private holiday.
8 A. When you say "mechanics" ...?
9 Q. Although this was the Princess of Wales and
10 Prince Charles, they were a divorced couple and no doubt
11 Prince Charles would have to have been asked whether he
12 was happy.
13 A. There were arrangements whereby timings were agreed as
14 to when the boys would be with the Princess and when
15 the boys would be with their father. Whether or not
16 the Princess advised Prince Charles that she intended to
17 take the boys on this particular holiday or not, I do
18 not know for certain. I would be astounded if she did
19 not.
20 Q. Presumably, given that the boys were to travel with her
21 abroad, once she decided that she wished to accept
22 the invitation, it would be necessary to involve and
23 initiate the personal protection process?
24 A. Indeed, yes.
25 Q. So would it be a fair assumption that once the Princess

47
1 herself had decided to accept Mr Al Fayed's invitation,
2 very quickly a large number of people would have become
3 aware so that the necessary arrangements could be put in
4 place?
5 A. Those that needed to be aware would have been made
6 aware, yes.
7 Q. Thank you. You were also asked questions about
8 the closeness of the Princess of Wales to Mr Al Fayed
9 and his family, which I do not believe has ever been in
10 dispute. But to give an example, is it right that in
11 one year the Princess held her office Christmas party at
12 Harrods, for example?
13 A. She did.
14 Q. So that is an example of what I think everyone fully
15 understands and accepts, that the Princess was a friend
16 of the Al Fayed family.
17 A. Yes.
18 MR BURNETT: Thank you. No further questions.
19 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Thank you very much, Mr Gibbins,
20 for your time and help. That is all we require of you.
21 We are grateful.
22 A. Thank you.
23 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Now, Mr Burnett, I think that is
24 the last live witness we have available this morning.
25 MR BURNETT: It is, sir, yes.

48
1 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: But I did refer to a number of
2 witnesses yesterday whose evidence it might be possible
3 to read.
4 MR BURNETT: Yes, sir. There were a number. Perhaps
5 we could quickly canvas with those concerned whether
6 they are content that I should read the statement of
7 Patrick Riou, the statement of the Prefect of Police,
8 Philippe Massoni, and the statement of Bernard Pages.
9 MR MANSFIELD: It is accepted.
10 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Does anybody have any
11 disagreement about that?
12 MR HORWELL: No, sir.
13 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Very well.
14 MR BURNETT: Sir, might I proceed to do that?
15 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Just before we read these, I am
16 just thinking about the shorthand writer and the break.
17 We are obviously going to have a short morning. It is
18 a matter of whether we have a break or read
19 the statements and carry on.
20 MR BURNETT: I am being smiled at.
21 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: That could mean anything.
22 We will press on. If a stop is needed, we will
23 stop. Thank you.
24 MR BURNETT: Yes.
25 Sir, the first I read is a record of an interview

49
1 that took place on the 16th November 2006 at
2 the Palais de Justice in Paris.
3 It is the statement of Patrick Riou, who describes
4 himself as the Inspector General of the National Police.
5 Statement of MR PATRICK RIOU (read)
6 MR BURNETT: First question:
7 "You went to the scene on the night of the accident.
8 What was your role?"
9 Answer:
10 "At the time of the incident, I was Regional
11 Director of the Judicial Police in Paris. As such,
12 I was responsible for 2,500 judicial police officers and
13 investigators. My department only works in judicial
14 matters and under the authority of magistrates from
15 the Prosecutor's office or instructing. Nevertheless,
16 at an administrative level, I am also under
17 the authority of the Prefect of Police, to whom I must
18 answer, which permits interface between the judicial
19 police and the administrative police and political
20 authorities. In fact, certain judicial investigations
21 can have repercussions on public order. The Minister of
22 the Interior must therefore be informed of this.
23 "As a general rule, local departments are generally
24 tasked with the inquiries, at the start, specialised
25 departments are tasked secondarily, when circumstances

50

1 dictate, by the Public Prosecutor.

2 "It is as such that on 31st August at 00.50 am,
3 I was advised by my headquarters that a serious road
4 traffic accident had just occurred in the underpass of
5 the Pont de l'Alma, that emergency services and local
6 police services were already at the scene, that there
7 were multiple seriously injured persons, among whom were
8 Princess Lady Diana and a man who could be
9 Mr Dodi Al Fayed. I was also informed that a number of
10 paparazzi, present at the scene, had been detained by
11 the police units. I immediately went to the scene where
12 I met the Prefect of Police and the local judicial
13 police supervisors.
14 "Given the identity of the injured parties, my first
15 concern was to ensure that the units attending had
16 sufficient personnel and logistic capabilities to
17 conduct their investigations under the best
18 circumstances. I was joined at the scene at that time
19 by the Deputy Public Prosecutor, Mrs Coujard. My first
20 objective was to convince her, and the Prefect of
21 Police, of the requirement to instruct the
22 Brigade Criminelle to conduct the investigations, taking
23 into account the technical aspect of the investigation,
24 and the significant resources that this unit has at its
25 disposal. They were both quickly convinced that this

51

1 was the only sensible choice to be made. The Public

2 Prosecutor personally approved this choice. I asked for
3 the maximum available numbers from this department to
4 attend the scene under the command of its head,
5 Mrs Monteil.
6 "The Brigade Criminelle took the responsibility for
7 this inquiry. My role was essentially, from that point
8 on, to inform the Prefect of Police, who in turn
9 informed the Government and the British authorities of
10 everything that could concern them, and notably when it
11 would be possible to repatriate the body of the Princess
12 of Wales."
13 The second question:
14 "Mr Franz Klein and Mr Claude Roulet from the Ritz
15 Hotel state that they attended your office in
16 the afternoon of Sunday 31st August 1997. They state
17 that they made you aware of information, which had come
18 from London, indicating that the deaths were suspicious.
19 How did you deal with this?"
20 Answer:
21 "Indeed, in the afternoon of 31st August 1997, I was
22 contacted at my offices by Mr Klein and Mr Roulet who
23 informed me that they had been instructed by
24 the Al Fayed family. I met with them that same day.
25 Because a judicial investigation was already ongoing,

52

1 I asked [Captain Nouvion] of the Brigade Criminelle, to

2 attend this meeting and transcribe the details of this
3 meeting into a statement, which is linked to
4 the dossier...
5 "The visit of Mr Klein and Roulet was twofold:
6 "1. They informed me that the Al Fayed family
7 wanted the body of Dodi Al Fayed to be immediately
8 repatriated to the United Kingdom that day.
9 "2. These two visitors said to me, that they had
10 received, that day, from London, without any further
11 details, information according to which the National
12 French Police had information to the effect that
13 the death of Mr Dodi Al Fayed was suspicious.
14 "I indicated to my two visitors that, at the current
15 stage of the inquiry, no elements collected by the
16 investigators evidenced this fact and the same went for
17 the forensic findings already made by Professor Lecomte.
18 "That was it for the meeting."
19 Then:
20 "Reply to question asked: Did you have knowledge of
21 allegations, apparently made by the British police,
22 according to which the death of Dodi Al Fayed was
23 apparently suspicious?"
24 Answer:
25 "I point out that Mr Klein and Mr Roulet visited me

53

1 16 hours after the accident. At that time, we had

2 received no official information of any sort from
3 the British police.
4 "I must remind you and underline the fact that
5 Mr Klein and Mr Roulet signed the minutes made of
6 this conversation we had, where it is clearly apparent
7 that the allegations they were making were extremely
8 vague."
9 Next question:
10 "Having been informed that the deaths could be
11 suspicious, what effect did this have on the
12 repatriation process?"
13 Answer:
14 "I must point out that the decision to sign the
15 burial certificates was solely down to the Public
16 Prosecutors. The arrangements for the repatriation of
17 the bodies were subject to discussions between
18 the Prefect of Police and the British authorities."
19 That was read over and signed.
20 Statement of MR PHILIPPE MASSONI (read)
21 The next statement is a record of an interview as
22 a witness on 14th November 2006 at the Palace of Justice
23 in Paris of Mr Philippe Massoni. The interview took
24 place in his capacity as Prefect and Secretary General
25 of the Internal Security Council.
54

1 First question:
2 "Can you briefly describe the role of the Prefect of
3 Police?"
4 Answer:
5 "The Prefect of Police in Paris has some 33,000 men
6 under his authority, comprising judicial and
7 administrative police staff, as well as the Paris Fire
8 Brigade. Assisted by other prefects, he is responsible
9 for the entire administration of the Prefecture of
10 Police.
11 "In consultation with magistrates and the Public
12 Prosecutor's Department, he may be informed of crimes or
13 lesser offences which may have a bearing on public
14 order.
15 "There is a command unit and the Prefect of Police
16 is responsible for security in the capital, notably all
17 foreign diplomatic representations and, on occasion, for
18 overseas representatives. He has to ensure the security
19 of all government buildings in order that these
20 institutions can function properly."
21 The next question:
22 "You went to the scene on the night of the accident.
23 What was your role?"
24 Answer:
25 "I did go to the scene of the accident. I should
55

1 point out that as comprehensive as possible a log of the

2 events at the time was made in 1997. I produce this
3 chronology to you in order that it can be attached to
4 this statement.
5 "At 0040 hours, the headquarters of Public Safety
6 informed me of the accident. As I live at
7 the Prefecture, I was able to inform my staff officer
8 and my driver in a matter of a few minutes and to attend
9 the scene, where I arrived at 0050 hours. During the
10 journey, I alerted the Minister of the Interior,
11 M Chevenement. When I got to the scene, I gave him
12 a situation report.
13 "I personally took the measures to ensure that
14 the scene was secured. It was in fact a marked police
15 car that had been alerted by passers-by. The crew had
16 notified the police for the 1st district so that they
17 could take the initial measures.
18 "It was necessary to secure the scene to facilitate
19 the intervention of the emergency services, to preserve
20 marks and evidence, to keep witnesses at the scene and
21 to detain the paparazzi.
22 "These measures, which were taken very promptly,
23 apart from facilitating the intervention of the
24 emergency services, enabled the judicial investigation
25 to operate under optimal conditions.
56

1 "I should point out that three sections of

2 the Brigade Anti-Criminalite ... who were on duty that
3 night were instructed to attend the scene in order to
4 assist the local officers who were in attendance, in
5 order to help secure the scene and to set up a security
6 cordon, which was quickly reinforced with barriers.
7 "I told the Logistics Directorate to send powerful
8 lighting to the scene in order to assist the emergency
9 services in their work and then the investigators with
10 their findings.
11 "I was very quickly joined at the scene by M Patrick
12 Riou, Director of the Judicial Police for Paris,
13 M Berlioz, Assistant Director of Public Safety, and
14 Mr De Keyser, the Chief of Staff of the Judicial Police.
15 "Madame Coujard, Deputy Public Prosecutor, went to
16 the scene and appointed the Brigade Criminelle of the
17 Judicial Police for Paris to conduct the investigation.
18 This appointment lead Madame Monteil, Divisional
19 Superintendent and Head of the Brigade Criminelle, to
20 attend the scene in order to direct operations in
21 respect of the investigation.
22 "Reply to a question: I did not know prior to
23 the accident that the Princess of Wales was in France,
24 and she was in fact on a private visit. Like countless
25 other foreign VIPs, she had come to France on holiday
57

1 without seeking the assistance of the authorities in

2 respect of her protection.
3 "Reply to a question: if the Princess of Wales had
4 announced her trip to France, discussions would have
5 taken place with her representative as to any security
6 measures that she might have wanted put in place.
7 I should point out however that the French authorities
8 do not impose security measures on a visitor contrary to
9 his or her wishes."
10 Question:
11 "Did you inform the British Embassy in Paris of the
12 accident? Do you remember who you informed and when?"
13 Answer:
14 "This accident was of major international
15 significance. At the same time as the Minister of
16 the Interior was making his way to [the hospital],
17 I notified the British Ambassador, as well as the office
18 of the President, the office of the Prime Minister and
19 the Foreign Minister in person. These notifications
20 were done on my behalf by Nicola Basselier, my assistant
21 private secretary, as my principal private secretary was
22 on holiday at the time. There was frequent contact
23 between my assistant private secretary and these
24 high-level authorities. They were kept informed on
25 a regular basis.

58
1 "Reply to a question: I believe that the British
2 Ambassador to France was informed at the same time as
3 the other high-level authorities that I just mentioned,
4 as soon as we knew that the Princess of Wales was one of
5 the victims of the accident. I can say that it was
6 a night the like of which, fortunately, we rarely
7 experience and in the course of which one has to take
8 very quick decisions and to share roles effectively.
9 It was therefore necessary to inform senior officials,
10 including the British Ambassador, without delay. Nine
11 years after the event, I cannot tell you if it was me
12 personally or ... my private secretary who did this.
13 "I should like at this juncture to pay tribute to
14 his excellency the Ambassador of Great Britain,
15 Sir Michael Jay and his wife who, throughout the events,
16 were present in the command post that we set up in
17 the command post ... of the Pitie-Salpetriere Hospital.
18 Thanks to their calmness under pressure and their
19 efficiency, both proved to be of great assistance to
20 us."
21 Next question:
22 "You went to [the hospital] with some other senior
23 figures. What was your involvement in the decision to
24 embalm the Princess of Wales and in her repatriation on
25 Sunday 31st August 1997?"

59
1 Answer:
2 "I do not have any recollection of being involved in
3 the decision to embalm the Princess of Wales.
4 "I arranged for a guard of honour from the hospital
5 out of respect for the body of this eminent figure and
6 out of the respect due to her family. It also enabled
7 us to prevent access to the room to any unauthorised
8 persons.
9 "The arrangements for the transfer of the body were
10 the result of a decision between our two governments.
11 It was my responsibility to implement it. The body of
12 the Princess of Wales was escorted to the military
13 airport ... by motorcycle outriders in ceremonial
14 uniform. They were to prevent any overtaking of the
15 cortege and any other unwelcome intrusion. The coffin
16 was placed in an aircraft of the Royal Air Force."
17 Then a question:
18 "M Monceau, an embalmer, recalls speaking to you.
19 Do you remember this conversation?"
20 Answer:
21 "Not at all."
22 The interview was concluded and the statement was
23 read over and signed in the usual way.
24 Statement of MR BERNARD PAGES (read)
25 Last, sir, if it does not tax the fingers too much

60
1 of those transcribing, a short record of interview of
2 Bernard Pages, who was interviewed on
3 16th November 2006, again at the Palace of Justice in
4 Paris.
5 He gave his name and a position as a "Magistrate
6 Public Prosecutor at the Regional Court of Nanterre".
7 First question:
8 "How were you chosen/designated in this inquiry?
9 What was your role in the inquiry? What was your link
10 with the role of Madame Coujard?
11 "In 1997, I was the first deputy of the Public
12 Prosecutor at the Regional Court of Paris. Since 1991
13 I had been in charge of the First Section of the
14 Prosecutor's Office which had responsibilities for
15 matters of drugs, prostitution, suspicious deaths and
16 road traffic matters.
17 "At the time, Mrs Coujard, deputy, was one of my
18 direct colleagues.
19 "She was on call on 31st August 1997. In fact,
20 the section has a magistrate on call during the week,
21 night and day, who deals with cases arising during
22 the commission of or immediately following an offence,
23 that are brought to them by police departments.
24 The magistrate attends the scene if required.
25 "The accident in which the Princess of Wales and

61
1 Dodi Al Fayed were victims, as well as Henri Paul, was
2 therefore, passed as normal to the First Section.
3 It was therefore also normal that Madame Coujard, on
4 call deputy, attend the scene, given the identity of the
5 victim.
6 "On this day, I was on holiday in the provinces and
7 I was due to return to Paris on the 31st during the day.
8 Madame Coujard informed me of this accident by telephone
9 at around 7 am.
10 "She informed me of her having attended the scene.
11 "I arrived in Paris in the early afternoon of
12 31st August and I immediately met with Mrs Coujard with
13 whom I had a meeting that evening in the office of
14 Mrs Martine Monteil, the head of the Brigade Criminelle
15 at that time.
16 "In my capacity as head of the section, given that
17 it was an incident within my remit, it was my
18 responsibility to direct the inquiry and supervise
19 the investigators' work, assisted by Madame Coujard.
20 I designated this magistrate to follow this inquiry,
21 given that she had known it from the start.
22 The investigation was dealt with in the same way as
23 those usually dealt with by the section.
24 "One of our preoccupations was to very rapidly
25 obtain results of samples taken from the driver in order

62
1 to verify the level of blood/alcohol. We tested
2 the blood/alcohol level as quickly as possible, by
3 tasking Professor Ricordel who was in charge of the
4 laboratory of the Prefecture of Police in Paris.
5 We also had a second expert analysis carried out by
6 the laboratory of Dr Pepin."
7 Question:
8 "Why was it not Mrs Coujard, but you that designated
9 Professor Ricordel and Dr Pepin to conduct tests for
10 blood/alcohol on the samples taken from Henri Paul?"
11 Answer:
12 "I was head of the section, I signed
13 the requisitions. For this type of analysis,
14 Professor Ricordel and Dr Pepin were the experts that
15 we regularly used. Madame Coujard could just as equally
16 have signed the requisitions."
17 And once again, the content of the interviews were
18 read over and signed in the usual way.
19 Sir, those are the three statements.
20 The evidence at 2 o'clock will be from Dr Steiner,
21 and she is the only witness we will be hearing from this
22 afternoon, sir.
23 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes. How long is she likely to
24 take?
25 MR BURNETT: My learned friend Mr Hough will be taking her

63

1 evidence. It is unlikely that she will take the whole

2 afternoon.
3 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: That is right, is it?
4 MR MANSFIELD: It is, yes.
5 LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: There we are, members of the
6 jury, it is not going to be a full-day day.
7 Sorry about the long break in the middle of the day,
8 but these things happen, despite the best efforts to get
9 witnesses here at convenient times. 2 o'clock.
10 (11.40 am)
11 (The short adjournment)
12
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