Barry Joe Stull Archive: 67134 - Transcript

Transcript
Transcript Checklist for 67134

User ID: bela.lemmon Attorney: Brett J. Allin
April 18, 2017
Barry Joe Stull
Multnomah 15CR52961
A164155
Case Type: JT
Pages: 785
Transcript Filed: 4/17/2017
Record Settlement(s): 5/2/2017
Designation(s): Appellant designates the record in its entirety, including the trial court file, all
exhibits offered and/or received into evidence, and the entire record of the oral proceedings.
Questionnaire returned? Yes No

Comments:
Designated dates transcribed? Yes No N/A

Comments/additional dates transcribed: the record was designated in its entirety
Consecutive pagination? Yes No

Comments:
Plea transcribed? Yes No N/A

Comments:
Pretrial hearing(s)? Yes No N/A

Comments:
Audio/Video exhibit(s)? Yes No N/A

Comments: The index does not name individual exhs; there is no audio played in ct listed in
transcriber statement. Also, see Discussion regarding 911 audio............................p 673
Voir dire (if designated)? Yes No N/A

Comments:
Opening statements? Yes No N/A

Comments:
Closing arguments? Yes No N/A

Comments:
Jury instructions? Yes No N/A

Comments:
Verdict? Yes No N/A

Comments: p 752
Sentencing? Yes No N/A

Comments:
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON
FOR THE COUNTY OF MULTNOMAH
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
Plaintiff-Respondent, ) Circuit Court
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
) Appellate No. A164155
BARRY JOE STULL, )
aka Barry Joe Stully, ) Volume 17 of 26
) Pages 231 - 235
Defendant-Appellant. )
______________________________________________________________
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS ON APPEAL
BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled matter

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable
CHRISTOPHER J. MARSHALL, Judge of the Circuit Court,
Thursday, June 30, 2016 at the Multnomah County Courthouse,
Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES
FOR THE PLAINTIFF-RESPONDENT:

Unknown
FOR THE DEFENDANT-APPELLANT:
Barry Joe Stull, Pro Se (out of custody)
Kevin Kelley, OSB #033539

Hillsboro Law Group PC
5289 NE Elam Young Parkway, Suite 110
Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707
kevink@hillsborolawgroup.com
Weber Reporting Corporation

2755 Commercial Street South, #101-216
Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
231
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2016
2 -O0O-
3 (Call to Order of the Court at 9:38 a.m.)
4 MR. STULL: Your Honor, Barry Joe Stull. I'm not
5 a member of the bar, so I didn't come up and get in line,
6 but --
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 MR. STULL: -- but it's my turn.
9 THE COURT: Okay. And how did you decide it was
10 your turn?
11 MR. STULL: I was waiting in line, but I didn't
12 come before the bar because I'm not a member of the bar.
13 THE COURT: Oh, you were keeping track --
14 MR. STULL: And I don't need to be reprimanded for
15 that again.
16 THE COURT: I'm not reprimanding, I'm just --
17 MR. STULL: You haven't, but I'm saying it's my
18 experience.
19 THE COURT: -- I'm just asking you what -- so --
20 MR. STULL: This gentleman knows that --
21 THE COURT: I see. So you reserved a -- I got you.
22 MR. STULL: I'm trying to be kind, Your Honor. I
23 have a case number.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 MR. STULL: 15CR53749.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
232
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 MR. STULL: And I'm reading that from the back of
3 Mr. Kevin Kelley's business card. Apparently, he might be
4 assigned to be my legal advisor this morning.
5 THE COURT: Okay. And --
6 MR. KELLEY: Good morning, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Yes. And you actually have two cases.
8 MR. STULL: Right. I didn't read the other one.
9 The other one's tracking with this one.
10 THE COURT: Yes. 15CR52961, yeah. Okay. And so
11 we had this on the docket, what, last week, I think?
12 MR. STULL: Right, just two.
13 THE COURT: Yeah, and so we needed to appoint a
14 new legal advisor.
15 MR. STULL: Right.
16 THE COURT: And so we've done that now. And
17 you've met --
18 MR. STULL: I just met Mr. Kelley. I thought you
19 were going to tell me who it was and -- but --
20 THE COURT: Well, you met him beforehand. You're
21 way ahead of me this morning.
22 MR. STULL: Maybe -- I don't know how -- I don't
23 know, you're as surprised as I was that he's been assigned
24 to this case, but --
25 THE COURT: Oh, I'm --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
233
1 MR. STULL: -- here we are.
2 THE COURT: -- I'm not surprised.
3 All right. So all is good. You have your court --
4 you have the next dates on the case.
5 MR. KELLEY: I think we need dates, and I spoke
6 with the State about that.
7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's correct. I don't
8 have the bad dates, but I know the bad dates do go through
9 August at this point, Your Honor, and suggesting a trial
10 readiness date on the B docket relatively soon.
11 THE COURT: Okay. So a trial readiness date. So
12 that's a Friday. So how about Friday, July 15th? Does
13 that work for you?
14 MR. KELLEY: Yes.
15 THE COURT: All right. So we'll have on trial
16 readiness for Friday, July 15th, 9:00. You know how that
17 works, right?
18 MR. STULL: What room?
19 THE CLERK: The B docket.
20 MR. STULL: Oh, the B docket, so we don't know yet.
21 THE COURT: We don't know yet, yeah.
22 MR. STULL: Okay, all right.
23 THE COURT: But you know which docket. All right.
24 You know how to find out where to be, right? All right.
25 MR. STULL: All right, thank you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
234
1 MR. KELLEY: Thanks, Judge.
2 THE COURT: All right.
3 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor.
4 (Proceedings adjourned at 9:40 a.m., recommencing
5 in Volume 18, July 15, 2016.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
235
1 CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER
3 I, Valori Weber, court-approved transcriber,
4 certify that the foregoing is a full and correct transcript
5 from the official electronic sound recording of the
6 proceedings in the above-entitled matter.
10 Valori Weber, CET-711
11 Weber Reporting Corporation
12 2755 Commercial Street SE, #101-216
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 14, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
Transcriber Statement Regarding Record
Dear Transcriber,
Please check one or more of the boxes below to indicate whether the transcript you have prepared is
complete or whether there were any designated proceedings, or portions thereof, that you were not able
to transcribe. Please return the completed form to the Office of Public Defense Services with the
transcript and Provider Fee Statement.
9 Complete Transcript
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________
9 Missing Recordings
Audio recordings of some or all of the proceedings listed in the Designation of Record are
missing. Specifically, there are no recordings of the following proceedings:
9/6/2016: Missing audio from 9:12 to 9:51.
Inaudible Portions
Portions of the audio recordings are inaudible for at least 15 seconds and could not be
transcribed. The inaudible portions are noted on the following transcript pages:
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________
Audio or Video Recordings Played in Court

Audio and/or video recordings were played in court, as noted on the following transcript pages:
(Please indicate if you were unable to transcribe the records.)
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________
Other:
_________________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________________________________________
Date: April 17, 2016
Transcriber: Valori Weber

STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 1 - 2
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable STEVEN A.
TODD, Judge of the Circuit Court, Tuesday, November 24, 2015
at the Multnomah County Courthouse, Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

Unknown
Unknown

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
1
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2015
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Barry Stull, bench warrant; one, two,
5 three, four.
7 in Volume 2, November 30, 2015.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
2
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 3 - 4
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable MICHAEL A.
GREENLICK, Judge of the Circuit Court, Monday, November 30,
2015 at the Multnomah County Courthouse, Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

Steven W. Flinn, OSB #151018
Multnomah County District Attorney's Office
600 Multnomah County Courthouse
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
Thomas MacNair, OSB #961620

Metro Public Defender, Inc.
630 SW 5th Avenue, Suite 500
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100
tmacnair@mpdlaw.com

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
3
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; MONDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 2015
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Please be seated, folks.
5 MR. FLINN: And, Your Honor, the jail is requesting
6 a set-over on Mr. Stull. He's page 18, lines 2 and 3.
7 They're saying that if he's brought to court, force is going
8 to have to be used.
9 THE COURT: Mr. MacNair.
10 MR. MacNAIR: That's the gentleman we spoke to the
11 Court about.
12 THE COURT: And does he have a lawyer? Is
13 Mr. Rutledge his lawyer?
14 MR. MacNAIR: Yes.
15 THE COURT: Is there any objection?
16 MR. MacNAIR: No, Judge.
17 THE COURT: All right. I'll make a good cause
18 finding to set over the arraignment to another date because
19 of Mr. Stull's behavior in this matter.
20 THE CLERK: We'll set it over to tomorrow,
21 December 1st at 10:10 (indiscernible) on both cases.
23 in Volume 3, December 1, 2015.)
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
4
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 5 - 8
______________________________________________________________

GREENLICK, Judge of the Circuit Court, Tuesday, December 1,
APPEARANCES

Rebecca Freeman, OSB #065591
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3222
rebecca.freeman@mcda.us
Joseph S. Hagedorn, OSB #020560

Hagedorn Law
735 SW 1st Avenue, Suite 200
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 660-8299
joe@hagedornlaw.com

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
5
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; TUESDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2015
2 -O0O-
4 MR. HAGEDORN: Okay. On the 10:10 docket, page
5 13, lines 2 and 3; Stull, Barry, as to hold.
6 THE COURT: All right. So we're getting
7 information that we're having to transport by Mr. Stull by
8 force. He's not willing to come to court again; is that
9 correct?
10 MR. HAGEDORN: Yes.
11 THE COURT: And this is the second time -- day
12 we've had this difficulty; is that right?
13 MS. FREEMAN: Yes.
14 THE COURT: And he appeared in court last Friday,
15 it's my understanding, and wouldn't stop screaming in the
16 courtroom?
17 MS. FREEMAN: Yes.
18 THE COURT: All right. So, Mr. Hagedorn, a
19 suggestion is, I think to -- for the Court to find good cause
20 and set the arraignment on this matter until a time he would
21 normally be arraigned on the indictment that we're
22 anticipating occurs next -- would it be at the end of this
23 week; is that correct?
24 MS. FREEMAN: So would it normally be done -- the
25 indictment would be --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
6
1 THE CLERK: I can make sure that he's
2 (indiscernible) tomorrow.
3 MS. FREEMAN: It wouldn't be on the docket the
4 next day?
5 THE CLERK: He'd probably be on the docket the
6 next day, so that's on the 3rd.
7 MS. FREEMAN: And would we normally be able to do
8 it that quickly, to get the indictment?
9 THE CLERK: To get the indictment (indiscernible)?
10 MS. FREEMAN: Well, just to do the paperwork and
11 all that.
12 THE CLERK: To go in the jail?
13 MS. FREEMAN: For everyone.
14 THE CLERK: Yes. Yes.
15 MS. FREEMAN: Yes? Okay.
16 THE CLERK: I can let Crystal know that --
17 MS. FREEMAN: It's a special case.
18 THE CLERK: -- he's (indiscernible) to make sure
19 send the paperwork like she usually does on the 9:30
20 docket.
21 MS. FREEMAN: Okay.
22 THE CLERK: You know how we get them the day
23 before the paperwork gets there before that.
25 THE CLERK: Before 5:00.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
7
1 MS. FREEMAN: So that would be the 3rd.
2 THE CLERK: And at that time, I can get my
3 supervisor ready if he's unwilling to do it, to be ready to
4 do the jail arraignment.
6 THE CLERK: (Indiscernible) two days.
7 MR. HAGEDORN: Assuming is good cause is found.
8 It seems like that makes sense to set it over two days. My
9 cautious self would just set it over a day. But it may
10 make sense if we want to get it timed right, that he is --
11 that we set it over two days.
12 THE COURT: Why don't we set it over two days, and
13 we'll make sure to do the arraignment one way or the other
14 in two days, whether we have to go into the jail to do it,
15 or he might be willing to come here without being dragged.
16 So we'll do it at that point and we'll arraign him on the
17 indictment at that time if an indictment's returned. If
18 one's not returned, the case will be dismissed, so that
19 will be that.
20 THE CLERK: Okay. December 3rd at 10:10
21 (indiscernible).
22 THE COURT: Okay. I'll make a good cause finding.
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
8
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 9 - 18
______________________________________________________________

GREENLICK, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, December 3,
APPEARANCES

Unknown
Defendant is present in custody

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
9
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, DECEMBER 3, 2015
2 -O0O-
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, page 12, lines 3 and
5 4; Stull -- Barry Stull.
6 THE COURT: Hello, Mr. Stull. You're here for
7 arraignment on -- or first appearance on charges of
8 criminal trespass in one case; and assaulting a peace
9 officer, resisting arrest, criminal mischief, criminal
10 trespass in another case.
11 I'm going to appoint a lawyer to help you in these
12 cases.
13 THE DEFENDANT: I already have four lawyers.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Let's --
15 THE DEFENDANT: I was here on Friday -- well, let
16 me tell you. I came on November 25th. And I came in here
17 the Friday -- the same week, the day after Thanksgiving, and
18 I couldn't get a word in edgewise.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: I announced that I have
21 representation by a number of fellows. They're all
22 (indiscernible) at this point.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 THE DEFENDANT: And the issue is, to let you know,
25 I don't even know who you are, Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
10
1 THE COURT: I'm Judge Greenlick.
2 THE DEFENDANT: So you've never seen me before,
3 have you?
4 THE COURT: Nope.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay, I've never seen you either.
6 But on my way here, the Corrections Officer who's in the
7 back, Bagley, I -- I said, "How's your old man," because
8 his father gave me (indiscernible) in the courthouse jail
9 (indiscernible) had chapped lips and (indiscernible),
10 right.
11 THE COURT: That's nice.
12 THE DEFENDANT: That's how kind people were.
13 My problem is, I have central pain syndrome.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 THE DEFENDANT: That's what it's called: central
16 pain syndrome. I'm trying to center myself because I just
17 had a disciplinary hearing where I'm on lockdown till
18 January 24th --
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: -- for events that I did in cell
21 4D03.
22 THE COURT: Okay, that's unfortunate.
23 THE DEFENDANT: I was never in cell 4 -- 4D03.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 THE DEFENDANT: So they didn't get the cell right.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
11
1 So what I want to do, Your Honor, is I want to
2 schedule what I could do to -- these cases are completely
3 bogus.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Of course, I can't do anything to
6 defend myself if I'm locked down until January 24th or
7 something --
8 THE COURT: That --
9 THE DEFENDANT: -- I didn't do.
10 THE COURT: That does make it tough.
11 THE DEFENDANT: So what I would like for you to
12 do, Your Honor --
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 THE DEFENDANT: -- is I have -- I've already done
15 the release of information -- a communications information
16 specialist --
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 THE DEFENDANT: -- because my condition called
19 central pain syndrome, has a quality called dysesthesia --
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 THE DEFENDANT: -- that inhibits my ability to
22 even vocalize.
24 THE DEFENDANT: When I have a situation where I
25 can't even vocalize, and I'm getting signs that says touch

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
12
1 your nose, no, touch your ear, and like I'll hear two
2 different officers telling me two different things just
3 before I walk into this room.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So what I'd like to do, is
6 I'd like you, or your staff, to contact Mr. Rubal (ph) at
7 his phone number -- and I'll repeat it, but I'll say it now
8 -- (503) 545-0923. And I have a check in my mailbox at my
9 HUD housing is a person with my disability, which is a
10 neurological condition called central pain syndrome.
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 THE DEFENDANT: And I would like to have that
13 $4800 check at least used to barter to get $1100 bail so I
14 can get out of here --
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 THE DEFENDANT: -- and then we'll come back and I
17 will probably be able to communicate because I won't be
18 sick (indiscernible) all this --
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: -- and I will actually give the
21 District Attorney all the case law that shows that none of
22 these things can really be prosecuted.
23 THE COURT: Okay. So, Mr. Stull, let me just -- I
24 appreciate what you're saying. We can't do any of that
25 here this morning. The purpose of arraignments, from a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
13
1 constitutional perspective --
2 THE DEFENDANT: Yes.
3 THE COURT: -- is just so you have notice of
4 what's going on.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Right. But I have to be able to
6 make a telephone call, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Okay. No, I get it.
8 THE DEFENDANT: (Indiscernible) in custody on the
9 25th of November.
10 THE COURT: But the only point today -- the only
11 thing you can accomplish today is giving you notice by
12 giving you a copy of the charges. So that's what we're
13 going to do. Who's the lawyer in the case?
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Judge, we're asking Kasia
15 Rutledge be appointed on the case (indiscernible) --
16 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, I already have a
17 lawyer.
18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And we're asking that Jane
19 Fox be appointed on the case ending in 961.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Well, we'll try to consolidate
21 that at some point, but --
22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And just for Mr. Stull's
23 information, my staff has actually noted everything you just
24 said. We work with Ms. Rutledge and Ms. Fox, and we will be
25 sure to give all that information to them to call.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
14
1 THE DEFENDANT: But the problem is, Harry Carson
2 has represented me on everything we've done at the 100
3 percent equivalent. He knows chapter and verse --
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We work with him.
5 THE DEFENDANT: -- my disability.
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We work with him.
7 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So --
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's in our office.
9 THE DEFENDANT: Okay, good. So why don't you tell
10 Harry Carson that I'm Justice Center --
11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I will.
12 THE DEFENDANT: -- and I'm in lockdown until
13 January 24th.
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I will let him know.
15 THE DEFENDANT: And I simply want bail out and a
16 $4800 check in my mailbox now. My bail is only 1100.
17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
18 THE DEFENDANT: Let me bail out today.
19 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, we got it. We
20 got it. Okay.
21 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you.
22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So --
23 THE DEFENDANT: Do you have the phone number for
24 Mr. Rubal?
25 THE COURT: Yes, we've got all the numbers.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
15
1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We got it. My staff just
2 took it down.
3 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So is this your full name
5 right there?
6 THE DEFENDANT: Let me tell you what my name is.
7 You can read it. My name is Barry Joe Stull.
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: B-a-r-r-y J-o-e.
9 THE DEFENDANT: I'll spell it --
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay.
11 THE DEFENDANT: -- because here's what I'm trying --
12 I'm trying to (indiscernible). Okay, so --
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Why don't you let me talk
14 and then --
15 THE DEFENDANT: No, why don't you let me talk. You
16 read that paper and I'll tell you what my problem is.
17 My name is Barry, B-a-r-r-y. My middle name is
18 Joe, J-o-e. I was (indiscernible) by my father before --
19 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is your last name S-t-u-l-l.
20 THE DEFENDANT: I will tell you if you just shut
21 up, please.
22 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull. Mr. Stull. No,
23 we don't talk like that here.
24 Why don't you proceed with the arraignment?
25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, thank you. Judge,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
16
1 we're --
2 THE DEFENDANT: Can't get a word in edgewise.
3 THE COURT: No, you've been pretty much talking the
4 whole time.
5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're in receipt of two
6 charging documents. One is (indiscernible) District
7 Attorney's information, case number ending in 961. The
8 second is a four-count DA's information, case number ending
9 749.
10 Mr. Stull is truly named. I'm not sure if his name
11 is spelled correctly. I'm not sure what his date of birth is.
12 THE COURT: That's fine.
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We'll be proceeding as
14 indicated in the charging document waiting for the reading
15 of advice of rights, invoking all rights that were read into
16 the record this morning, entering a not guilty plea on all
17 counts and requesting (indiscernible).
18 THE COURT: All right. Not guilty plea.
19 And dates, please?
20 THE CLERK: December 9th at 9:00 a.m. in JC-1.
21 Preliminary hearing on the felony, December 11th at 9:30,
22 JC-3.
23 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, take care.
24 Mr. Stull, we may have you back here tomorrow
25 because there might be an indictment on one of these, but --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
17
1 so don't get confused.
2 THE DEFENDANT: I'm sorry, Your Honor. They're
3 talking to me over here, so I can't talk to both of you --
4 THE COURT: That's okay. We may need you tomorrow
5 too.
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And, Judge, are you finding
7 that that was truly named or --
8 THE COURT: Yes. I'm finding it was truly named.
9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And, Judge, actually -- we
10 didn't actually address (indiscernible).
11 THE COURT: We'll deal with it tomorrow.
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Tomorrow?
13 THE COURT: Yeah.
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay, okay. So we can just
15 make a record that I did make a motion for Mr. Stull's
16 release today and I'm --
17 THE COURT: Let's just get him the paperwork.
19 THE COURT: The thing is, you know, there's a
20 statutory and probably constitutional right to have the
21 arraignment. We've been putting that off. We gave him
22 notice. We entered a not guilty plea. As far as release,
23 that can be another day. So we'll do that another day.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
18
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 19 - 20
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable STEVEN A.
TODD, Judge of the Circuit Court, Wednesday, December 9, 2015
APPEARANCES

Unknown
Unknown

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
19
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; WENESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 2015
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Now, in 57, we're calling the cases in
5 which defendants have not appeared without an excuse.
6 (Other cases called from 10:57 a.m. to 11:04 a.m.)
7 THE COURT: Barry Stull. Apparently, declining to
8 be in court. Can we get word to Mr. Stull?
9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's upstairs.
10 THE COURT: Oh, he's upstairs.
11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He has a felony attorney
12 with our office that will be handling everything.
13 THE COURT: Great, okay.
15 THE CLERK: Trial readiness, 12/31, 9:00 on the
16 (indiscernible).
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
20
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 21 - 22
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable HENRY
KANTOR, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, December 31,
APPEARANCES

Hannah K. Truitt, OSB #144487
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
hannah.truitt@mcda.us
Sara S. Mulroy, OSB #084274

Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100
smulroy@mpdlaw.com
Defendant present in custody

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
21
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Next, Barry Stull, in custody.
5 MS. MULROY: (Indiscernible) misdemeanor to a
6 felony, case 15CR53749, which currently has morning call on
7 January the 15th at 9:00 a.m.
8 THE COURT: Works for me.
9 MS. TRUITT: No objection from the State.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Did you get the case number?
11 THE CLERK: (Indiscernible).
12 THE COURT: Thank you.
14 in Volume 7, January 28, 2016.)
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
22
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 23 - 28
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable EDWARD J.
JONES, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, January 28, 2016
APPEARANCES

Jeffrey D. Auxier, OSB #062634
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-5445
jeffrey.auxier@mcda.us
Kasia E. Rutledge, OSB #084590

Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100
krutledge@mpdlaw.com

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
21
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Have a seat, everybody. Good morning.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Good morning, Judge Jones. My
6 name's Barry Joe Stull, and I'm moving that I don't appear
7 before you. State Ex Rel Caforia vs. Jones (ph). I cannot
8 get a fair hearing in front of you, so we're going to have
9 to get this moved to a different judge.
10 THE COURT: Well, we can talk about that. Let's
11 get the case on the record to start.
12 MR. AUXIER: This is the time and date set for a
13 hearing in the matter of State vs. Stull. The case numbers
14 are 15CR53749 and 15CR52961. Jeff Auxier for the State,
15 062634. The State is ready to proceed.
16 MS. RUTLEDGE: And good morning, Your Honor.
17 Kasia Rutledge, R-u-t-l-e-d-g-e, Oregon State Bar 084590,
18 here on behalf of Mr. Stull.
19 And there are two cases. The one that I represent
20 him on is 15CR53749. This is the State -- excuse me --
21 Mr. Stull's motion for new counsel. This is a misdemeanor
22 case that's tracking along with the felony case.
23 Currently, Bryan Francesconi is the attorney on that case,
24 15CR52961.
25 THE COURT: And, you know, I'll say that technically

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
22
1 I don't think there is any basis for -- you know, there isn't
2 a right to an affidavit on these facts. But Mr. Stull and I
3 do go back a ways. I had a long-running civil case in which
4 he out of custody litigated. And I've had other contacts
5 with him, brief, nothing substantial, other than that case.
6 But frankly, I don't have a problem with simply
7 recusing myself from Mr. Stull's cases. You know, it's not
8 clear to me that it's going to work out any differently,
9 but frankly, I just don't see the need to force myself on
10 Mr. Stull because I'm confident that it will work out
11 somewhere else.
12 Now, so I'm happy to simply go ahead and say, I'm
13 not going to have anything further to do with it if that's
14 where you guys are.
15 On the other hand, if we can -- I don't know what
16 the problem is with the lawyers and, you know, I'm happy to
17 talk about that too if you want to get into that, Mr. Stull.
18 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. I'll restate the
19 standard is State Ex Rel Caforia vs. Jones. I do not have
20 to appear in front of a judge that I will not have a fair
21 hearing in front of, and that is you.
22 And part of the problem, Your Honor, is when I
23 appeared in your court on December 11, 2000 --
24 THE COURT: Remember, you've already won this
25 motion.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
23
1 THE DEFENDANT: I'm stating the facts on the
2 record because that's important.
3 December 11, 2015, I appeared in front of you in
4 the Justice Center -- I believe it was JC-3 -- but on this
5 case. And I informed you at the time that I had a check
6 for $4800 in my mailbox, which was a product of my not
7 cashing the check for $4,475, which you awarded as damages
8 for the over $20,000 worth of damages that I --
9 THE COURT: That was in the civil case, the
10 landlord-tenant case.
11 THE DEFENDANT: The civil case, right.
12 THE COURT: Right.
13 THE DEFENDANT: And that was destroyed in 2006,
14 and the check was cut by Gales Creek Insurance in 2010. I
15 did not accept that because accepting that check would have
16 been satisfaction.
17 And I did not get my damages under the Landlord-
18 Tenant Act. You found that although they did and I was
19 without those funds, that that was not contempt of court.
20 And a contempt of court proceeding was issued by presiding
21 Judge Dale Koch. That's how I appeared before you on that
22 case.
23 And Ms. Rutledge informed me at the only phone call
24 where she actually called me on January 5th, she had a
25 conversation with you, and you said that the Oregon State

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
24
1 Lands check that I talked to you specifically about being a
2 product of my not cashing that 2000 check -- I told you that
3 on December 11, 2015, I had this check -- you, according to
4 Ms. Rutledge, said that that check wasn't any good.
5 THE COURT: Well, what I said --
6 THE DEFENDANT: That's what she said --
7 THE COURT: Well --
8 THE DEFENDANT: -- and that's what you two can
9 work out because neither of you are working legally --
11 THE DEFENDANT: -- to protect my constitutional
12 rights. And that's why I have stated my points on the
13 record.
14 THE COURT: And I'm --
15 THE DEFENDANT: So if we can get this to another
16 judge, I would be happy to go back to my cell for another
17 two months, because I know I'm not guilty, and that's why
18 the plea offer on this case was two years bench probation.
19 That's why I rejected it, because I was not guilty, and I
20 have integrity.
21 THE COURT: And --
22 THE DEFENDANT: And that's why I didn't cash the
23 $4,775 check because that was a product of not only the
24 fraud on the court by PCRI, but your fraud in saying that
25 the parties allowed you to decide the damages, when both

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
25
1 parties, in fact, demanded a jury trial.
2 So I have made my point. I am a person with a
3 disability. It's called central pain. You know about that.
4 THE COURT: I do.
5 THE DEFENDANT: And I need to be well. And
6 nothing about being arrested, nothing about being
7 mishandled, nothing about having Ms. Rutledge, and
8 apparently Mr. Francesconi, who's never contacted me in any
9 manner, and nothing about having you as a judge is
10 salubrious environment for me. It all actually sickens me.
11 So we might add that ORS 659A.142 makes the
12 entirety of these proceedings a violation of my rights
13 protected because the State is engaging in disability
14 discrimination that is the product of the City of Portland,
15 which arrested me illegally on the 25th of November, 2015.
16 And the Multnomah County Sheriff is giving me
17 nothing to treat my central pain condition, which is a
18 neurological condition, which is well document. So without
19 medicine, without my freedom, without counsel, and in front
20 of a judge that I know is absolutely, absolutely incompetent,
21 all due respect to the office, I need to have this proceeding
22 done in front of a competent judge.
23 THE COURT: Well, I can certainly get you another
24 judge. I won't make any assessment about the competence
25 issues, and happy to do that, as I said when I came out.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
26
1 And so no problem.
2 THE DEFENDANT: And just on a personal note, Your
3 Honor. It's no secret that for years and years and years,
4 I've been trying to have you prosecuted for official
5 misconduct.
6 THE COURT: So far not very successfully.
7 THE DEFENDANT: No, they've been arresting me
8 instead.
10 MS. RUTLEDGE: Your Honor, I have a procedural
11 question. Do you believe that Your Honor will be able to
12 get another judge this morning, or do we need to set this
13 for a different date in front of a different judge?
14 THE COURT: Well, if there's someone who could
15 hear it this morning, that would be best, I assume.
16 Would you check with CPC and see if Judge
17 Bergstrom can hear it, or if he can find someone else who
18 would hear it? That would be clearly, you know --
19 MS. RUTLEDGE: Yes.
20 THE COURT: -- just to save another trip across
21 the street for everybody. So if there's a possibility that
22 we can get that heard this morning, that would make a lot
23 of sense, and I'm happy to see what we can do about making
24 that happen.
25 MS. RUTLEDGE: Thank you, Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
27
1 THE COURT: So I'm going to do a minute order
2 recusing myself from Mr. Stull's matters, and so then he
3 won't have to appear in front of me on any of these
4 matters. And we'll simply let Judge Bergstrom see if he
5 can find a home for this.
6 Pleasure talking to you.
7 THE DEFENDANT: See you in court.
9 in Volume 8, February 5, 2016.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
28
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 29 - 36
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable JERRY B.
HODSON, Judge of the Circuit Court, Friday, February 5, 2016
APPEARANCES

Todd Jackson, OSB #114240
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
todd.jackson@mcda.us

Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
29
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE CLERK: Circuit Court is now in session, the
5 Honorable Jerry B. Hodson presiding.
6 THE COURT: Good morning. You may go ahead and
7 call the case.
8 MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor. We're here in
9 the matter of State vs. Barry Stull, case number 15CR53749.
10 For the State, Todd Jackson, Bar Number 114240. The
11 Defendant's present in custody with counsel, Ms. Rutledge.
12 This is the time and place set for a substitution of
13 attorney hearing. Ready to proceed.
14 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Mr. Jackson.
15 And good morning, Ms. Rutledge.
16 MS. RUTLEDGE: Good morning, Your Honor. Kasia
17 Rutledge, R-u-t-l-e-d-g-e, Oregon State Bar 084590, here on
18 behalf of Mr. Stull.
19 And there are two cases in front of Your Honor.
20 The first one that Mr. Jackson mentioned, and there's also
21 a tracking misdemeanor, 15CR52961. Mr. Bryan Francesconi
22 is the attorney of record on that case. He is out of
23 paternity leave, so he asked me to track that case with our
24 case.
25 And Mr. -- we're here on Mr. Stull's motion for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
30
1 new counsel.
2 THE COURT: Okay. And good morning, Mr. Stull.
3 THE DEFENDANT: Judge Hodson, I came into custody
4 November 25th, and at that time, I still had our case from
5 2012 under appeal in the Oregon Court of Appeals.
6 THE COURT: I'm sorry, what does that have to do
7 with your substitution of attorney?
8 THE DEFENDANT: I'm just curious if knowing that,
9 you could give me a fair hearing today.
10 THE COURT: So I feel like I can, but you tell me
11 whether or not you feel that way.
12 THE DEFENDANT: Well, the issue on that appeal,
13 Your Honor, was that the Portland Police refused to accept
14 my defense witness subpoenas, and you allowed that. You
15 wouldn't give me a continuance --
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 THE DEFENDANT: -- knowing that they had violated
18 both the constitution and the statute.
19 THE COURT: Okay. So you've got to tell me what
20 your view is.
21 THE DEFENDANT: Well --
22 THE COURT: I don't mean about that case. Here's
23 the question.
25 THE COURT: You've raised what I'm interpreting as

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
31
1 being whether or not I can be fair and impartial today.
2 THE DEFENDANT: Right.
3 THE COURT: I think I can. I felt like I was fair
4 to you the first time around back in whatever year that
5 was, and I'm willing --
6 THE DEFENDANT: Well, it was 2012.
7 THE COURT: -- and I'm willing to do so again.
8 There are always issues in a case that people can appeal,
9 and that's for the Court of Appeals to decide. And if they
10 decide that you're right about whatever it is that you've
11 raised on appeal, they'll make that decision. If they
12 don't, they won't. But that doesn't have anything to do
13 with what we're here about today. And it won't affect in
14 any way what I'm doing today. I didn't even remember that
15 you had appealed.
16 So anyway, fine. I mean, lots of people appeal my
17 decisions every day. It doesn't affect me.
18 So -- but the question I have is of you, whether
19 you think that I'm not going to be able to fair and
20 impartial, because if so, I may do something based on that.
21 So what's your view?
22 THE DEFENDANT: Well, here's my situation, Your
23 Honor. If I can kind of cover more than one issue so we
24 don't waste the Court's time.
25 THE COURT: Well, so this --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
32
1 THE DEFENDANT: I --
2 THE COURT: -- that was a yes or no question. In
3 other words, as a preliminary -- before we get into the
4 specifics of why you want a substitution of attorney, we
5 have to decide if I'm the judge that's going to decide
6 that.
8 THE COURT: So answer me yes or no whether or not
9 you think that I can be fair and impartial.
10 THE DEFENDANT: No, I don't think you can be fair.
11 THE COURT: Okay. So then we'll assign a
12 different judge.
13 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Well, here's my issue on
14 that.
15 THE COURT: Yeah.
16 THE DEFENDANT: I already had Judge Jones on
17 January 28th.
18 THE COURT: That's because you did the same thing
19 you're doing today.
20 THE DEFENDANT: Right. And that's because --
21 THE COURT: So that's going to --
22 THE DEFENDANT: -- I can't get a fair hearing.
23 I'm a person with a disability, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: It's because you don't think you can.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
33
1 THE COURT: Whether or not you can or not is
2 another question.
3 THE DEFENDANT: Well, and I think the
4 constitution, it says the police have to -- I'm allowed to
5 have defense witnesses. The statute says the police have
6 to accept my subpoenas. You specifically did not allow me
7 to have my defense witnesses. That's not fair. That's not
8 fair under the Oregon Constitution. But specifically, it's
9 a matter of statute. And as a person with a disability --
10 I have one, it's a neurological condition, and Ms. Rutledge
11 has no idea what it is because she has never had a
12 conversation with me.
13 And what I'm going to express to you, is I was
14 offered a two-year bench probation. That's no jail time.
15 And all I had to do, Your Honor, was plead guilty to
16 something that I know I'm going to prevail on in court.
17 But I'm not going to prevail on it in court if I never get
18 to court because I keep going in front of judges that I
19 feel are not fair, which is clearly enough for everybody to
20 understand.
21 So if you can recuse yourself, and we can schedule
22 another judge so I can get another attorney, I won't spend
23 the rest of my life waiting to go to a trial where I know
24 I'm going to win.
25 THE COURT: Mr. Jackson, with regard to the issue

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
34
1 of recusal, anything that you want to say or weigh in about
2 in that regard?
3 MR. JACKSON: Um.
4 THE COURT: You don't have to. I just --
5 MR. JACKSON: Yeah, I --
6 THE COURT: -- I'm giving you the opportunity
7 before I make the decision.
8 MR. JACKSON: I don't really have anything to add,
9 Judge.
10 THE COURT: Okay. And, Ms. Rutledge, anything you
11 want to say?
12 MS. RUTLEDGE: Just that it sounds clear that my
13 client is asking for it, and so I would support it.
14 THE COURT: Yeah, and I'll grant that request.
15 Not because I don't think I can be fair and impartial. I
16 think I'll be as fair and impartial as any other judge in
17 this courthouse about this issue. So -- but that means
18 that we'll set it before another judge.
19 So I think the way this works, because the chief
20 criminal judge has recused himself at the Defendant's
21 request, is this will go back on the call docket --
22 MS. RUTLEDGE: That's correct, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: -- on Monday morning to be sent out to
24 yet another judge on Tuesday.
25 MS. RUTLEDGE: And is it possible for Your Honor

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
35
1 to set that on Monday because it's too late for us to set
2 something on Monday today? We would have to set it on
3 Tuesday. We're not allowed to set anything past 10:00 a.m.
4 THE COURT: Dan, do you know if I can do that?
5 I've been told many times I can do whatever I want. I don't
6 believe that.
7 THE CLERK: I can try to do it.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 THE CLERK: If not (indiscernible).
10 THE COURT: So we'll set that for Monday on call.
11 And if for some reason, for whatever reason, we can't,
12 we'll advise you. So plan on that.
13 MS. RUTLEDGE: Thank you, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: So that will Monday for Tuesday on
15 morning call.
16 All right. We're in recess.
17 MS. RUTLEDGE: Thank you.
18 THE COURT: Yeah.
20 in Volume 9, February 9, 2016.)
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
36
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 11, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 37 - 75
______________________________________________________________

CHRISTOPHER J. MARSHALL, Judge of the Circuit Court, Tuesday,
February 9, 2016 at the Multnomah County Courthouse,
Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

Todd Jackson, OSB #114240
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
todd.jackson@mcda.us

Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
37
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Please be seated.
5 MR. JACKSON: All right. We're here in the matter
6 of State vs. Barry Stull, case number 15CR53749 and
7 15CR52961. For the State, Todd Jackson, Bar Number 114240.
8 The Defendant's present in custody with counsel,
9 Ms. Rutledge. This is the time and place set for a
10 substitution of attorney hearing and we're ready to proceed.
11 THE COURT: Okay. Good morning.
12 MS. RUTLEDGE: Good morning, Your Honor. Kasia
13 Rutledge, R-u-t-l-e-d-g-e, Oregon State Bar 084590, here on
14 behalf of Mr. Stull.
15 And as I understand it, Your Honor, there are
16 three matters basically in front of Your Honor. And
17 procedurally, it might make sense to take them kind of out
18 of order.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 MS. RUTLEDGE: The three matters in front of Your
21 Honor are, first, the State, I believe, is moving to dismiss
22 the previous indictment on this case. And then arraign
23 Mr. Stull on a misdemeanor indictment. He has copies in
24 front of him. I believe Your Honor has copies as well.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
38
1 MR. RUTLEDGE: The second matter is if when Your
2 Honor does that, dismisses the indictment and proceeds on
3 the information, if I am still Mr. Stull's attorney at that
4 point in time, we will be moving for his release on the
5 misdemeanor information.
6 And then the third matter, which is the original
7 matter we're here on, is Mr. Stull is requesting a new
8 attorney.
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 MR. RUTLEDGE: That will be accomplished one way
11 or the other, because I won't be proceeding on the
12 misdemeanor case no matter what. The question then becomes
13 do his cases stay within my firm, or do they go outside to
14 a different firm.
15 THE COURT: Okay, all right.
16 And, Mr. Stull, you're doing okay today?
17 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, I have a disability.
18 It's two words, central pain; third word, dysesthesia.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: Today I'm experiencing some nausea.
21 And that's really a product of my learning yesterday that
22 when I appeared in front of Judge Waller, that she didn't
23 get my mail I sent out from Multnomah County Detention
24 Center.
25 THE COURT: Oh.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
39
1 THE DEFENDANT: That's a little stressful --
2 THE COURT: Yes.
3 THE DEFENDANT: -- to learn that.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: And --
6 THE COURT: But it sounds like we're going to make
7 some --
8 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, so --
9 THE COURT: -- good progress for you today though.
10 THE DEFENDANT: And I've been in custody without
11 medical treatment since the day before Thanksgiving.
12 THE COURT: Well, it sounds like we might be able
13 to -- we might be able to fix that, right?
14 THE DEFENDANT: Well, and the other -- the other
15 matter, Your Honor, is I have my housing through a HUD grant.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 THE DEFENDANT: And I have a worker. And when I
18 did my, whatever they're calling the pretrial supervised
19 release --
21 THE DEFENDANT: -- I gave her as my contact.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 THE DEFENDANT: They did the pretrial supervised
24 release. I got my report form. I had to request from the
25 firm. They didn't send it in automatically. But I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
40
1 requested it and I got that. And he said in his report
2 that I had no verifiable contacts with the community.
3 And then I got a letter -- well, it was just -- it
4 was just -- I think it was January 27th, she wrote it and
5 she said she just learned that I was in custody, my worker
6 that I gave as one of my contacts in the community. So
7 basically, they never even contacted my contact --
8 THE COURT: Oh.
9 THE DEFENDANT: -- or my contact would have known.
10 So I'm just -- I'm just letting you know that none of these
11 things are healthy for me.
12 THE COURT: Right, right.
13 THE DEFENDANT: All right, because I have --
14 THE COURT: Well, let's do --
15 THE DEFENDANT: -- I have every intention in
16 prevailing at trial on these matters --
17 THE COURT: Yes. Well, let's try --
18 THE DEFENDANT: -- so --
19 THE COURT: -- to do some things that are healthy
20 for you, okay.
21 THE DEFENDANT: All right, thank you.
22 THE COURT: Because it sounds like we're -- the
23 State's moving to dismiss the felony count here, the
24 assault on a public safety officer. So we can sign off on
25 that dismissal of that charge.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
41
1 And then that -- what that does, is it moves it
2 forward to where we can talk about having you go out of
3 custody because all you've got pending then is the
4 misdemeanors, right? And so then --
5 THE DEFENDANT: Apparently, yes.
6 THE COURT: What?
7 THE DEFENDANT: I said apparently.
8 THE COURT: All right. And so then what happens
9 is, Ms. Rutledge here who's currently your lawyer, it would
10 be a different lawyer representing you, if you want a
11 lawyer. You'll have misdemeanors pending. And so if you
12 want a lawyer, then what would happen at her office -- at
13 the Public Defender's office, they would have a different
14 lawyer representing you because Ms. Rutledge does felonies.
15 And so now it would be a different lawyer and -- so do you
16 want to have a lawyer if it's now misdemeanors only that
17 would be pending?
19 THE COURT: Do you want a lawyer, or do you want
20 to represent yourself?
21 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you for -- thank you for --
22 bear with me for a moment, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Sure.
24 THE DEFENDANT: I'm ill. My problem is that I
25 don't break the law.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
42
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 THE DEFENDANT: My Supreme Court case was Stull vs.
3 Hoke, 1997, right, so I know a little bit about the law.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Then as I come into these
6 procedures, I'm treated as an ugly duckling when I'm
7 actually a beautiful swan.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So I know more about the
10 facts of the case, which Ms. Rutledge doesn't even know that
11 I was a crime victim the day before I was arrested, because
12 we've never had an interview about the facts in my case --
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 THE DEFENDANT: -- since the day before
15 Thanksgiving, November 25th. That's my problem with the
16 firm.
17 THE COURT: Uh-huh.
18 THE DEFENDANT: A couple of days before that on
19 Sunday, the 22nd of November, I was arrested exiting the
20 emergency room at Emanuel Hospital, which was the second
21 time within four days that I was treated for my central
22 pain syndrome.
23 THE COURT: Uh-huh, and that's why you have two
24 cases pending, right? One --
25 THE DEFENDANT: Right. Well --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
43
1 THE COURT: -- you got arrested at the hospital.
2 THE DEFENDANT: -- just to let -- let you know --
3 THE COURT: Yeah.
4 THE DEFENDANT: -- give you a little behind the --
5 behind the scenes going on here, that case, the Emanuel
6 Hospital case, was assigned to Multnomah Public -- or
7 Metropolitan Public Defender, Jane Fox.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 THE DEFENDANT: I called her on December 8th. She
10 said, "Boy, you're hard to get a hold of. You have court
11 tomorrow." And I said, "Yes, I do." And she says -- I
12 said, "And you're my attorney." And she says, "No, I'm
13 not, that's Ms. Rutledge's case."
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 THE DEFENDANT: Well, in fact, the Court assigned
16 Ms. Fox that case.
17 THE COURT: Okay. So --
18 THE DEFENDANT: Then --
19 THE COURT: -- well, let me ask you a question.
20 THE DEFENDANT: -- since then -- wait, if --
21 THE COURT: So -- so let me ask -- it sounds like
22 maybe, do you not want a lawyer?
23 THE DEFENDANT: Well, let me cut to the chase here.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 THE DEFENDANT: I don't want to let you off in the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
44
1 -- without telling you my point.
2 So then I was scheduled to go to court on the 12th
3 of December. I was not transported to court from being in
4 custody.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 THE DEFENDANT: I then found out that months
7 later, literally, that the case was assigned to Bryan
8 Francesconi.
9 THE COURT: Yeah.
10 THE DEFENDANT: And he's with their firm also.
12 THE DEFENDANT: And I got my discovery on the
13 November 22nd case sent to me this calendar month, February.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 THE DEFENDANT: So as a person who knows that I
16 don't break the law and knows that I'm going to prevail at
17 court on these --
18 THE COURT: Yeah.
19 THE DEFENDANT: -- if I ever get a trial, the
20 thing that I don't need is an attorney who does not at all
21 take any interest in my wellbeing --
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 THE DEFENDANT: -- my status, the facts of my case.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 THE DEFENDANT: And that's why I'm here on a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
45
1 motion to substitute my counsel because my counsel could
2 not even tell you what my disability is --
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 THE DEFENDANT: -- when that's essential to my
5 defense.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. My counsel couldn't, on
8 either of these cases, tell you what the defenses are to my
9 cases, because part of my defenses would be incorporated in
10 State vs. Marbet, which says that you can't arrest somebody
11 for trespass in violation of civil rights that are protected
12 a person with a disability. So --
13 THE COURT: Well, so here's the beautiful thing for
14 you. You're here to substitute your lawyer, but your
15 lawyer's going to get substituted anyway --
16 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So --
17 THE COURT: -- because the felony's gone.
19 THE COURT: So now the choice is, do you want to
20 represent yourself or do you want a different lawyer from
21 Ms. Rutledge's office? Those are -- you choose. Number one
22 or number two?
23 THE DEFENDANT: Well, what I would prefer would be
24 that I have somebody that can assist me with obtaining
25 discovery on my behalf --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
46
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 THE DEFENDANT: -- which would be the 9-1-1 calls;
3 which would be my medical records; which would be getting my
4 expert witness, my neurologist; getting the Emanuel Hospital
5 emergency room doctor --
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 THE DEFENDANT: -- if they want to pursue this.
8 And --
9 THE COURT: So you want some help with discovery.
10 So you want a lawyer for that part of it then, right?
11 THE DEFENDANT: And --
12 THE COURT: Is that right? Okay.
13 THE DEFENDANT: -- I also know, chapter and verse,
14 these people. I know these people that were --
15 THE COURT: What people? What people?
16 THE DEFENDANT: Oh, for example, on the -- on the
17 -- excuse me, I'm ill -- Officer Engstrom. Okay, he --
18 THE COURT: Oh, oh, I thought you meant the
19 lawyers. Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: No, no, no. Well -- and some of
21 them too.
22 THE COURT: Yeah.
23 THE DEFENDANT: For example, State vs. Gaines (ph),
24 which we talked about in the court all the time because
25 that's how you interpret a statute. That's Harry Carson's

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
47
1 case. And Harry represented me on a couple of cases --
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 THE DEFENDANT: -- where I was found not guilty.
4 He's with Metropolitan --
5 THE COURT: How'd that go? Was that okay? Did you
6 get along with him okay?
7 THE DEFENDANT: He can't take my case.
8 THE COURT: No, I know. I'm just asking -- I'm
9 just asking you in general.
10 THE DEFENDANT: To be honest --
11 THE COURT: How did that go? Did you get along
12 with him okay?
13 THE DEFENDANT: To be honest with you, I was
14 tugging Harry's pant leg saying State vs. Marbet, disability
15 and --
16 THE COURT: Got you.
17 THE DEFENDANT: Wait. Please.
18 THE COURT: Yeah.
19 THE DEFENDANT: And Judge Marcus --
20 THE COURT: Yeah.
21 THE DEFENDANT: -- said, as the jury went out,
22 "I've been waiting with baited breath" -- to Harry Carson --
23 "I've been waiting with baited breath for you to raise the
24 issue of disability." Because Harry Carson, great guy as he
25 is, personal friend of mine I would hope, did not raise the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
48
1 disability in the case --
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 THE DEFENDANT: -- that he cited himself.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: State vs. Marbet.
6 So what happens, Your Honor, is when folks like
7 Ms. Rutledge have over 100 cases --
8 THE COURT: Yeah, it's hard.
9 THE DEFENDANT: -- they're overloaded. They can't
10 at all possibly give any of the dedication they need to a
11 complicated case, which I'm entitled to as a person with a
12 disability, because, you know, one of the things you do with
13 people with disabilities is you give them a little bit more
14 whatever.
15 THE COURT: Uh-huh. So that's why I'm asking you,
16 do you want to represent yourself, or you want one of the
17 misdemeanor lawyers to represent you? Which way do you want
18 it?
19 THE DEFENDANT: I would like to have an advisor --
20 THE COURT: An advisor, got it.
21 THE DEFENDANT: -- that could assist me with
22 getting the things that I got to -- I --
23 THE COURT: So let's have it this way. Let's line
24 it up this way. You'll be representing yourself, but you
25 have a legal advisor, okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
49
1 THE DEFENDANT: To assist. I have no income. I
2 have a HUD grant that pays for my housing.
3 THE COURT: Perfect, okay.
4 THE DEFENDANT: So I don't have the money to obtain
5 the police reports. I don't have the resources to obtain
6 the 9-1-1 telephone calls.
7 THE COURT: Okay. But if you go to trial, you want
8 to represent yourself like for the trial, right?
9 THE DEFENDANT: I've done that before --
10 THE COURT: Sure.
11 THE DEFENDANT: -- with success.
12 THE COURT: You've been -- you told me you had your
13 Supreme Court case, so it sounds like you're fully capable,
14 right, of representing yourself?
15 THE DEFENDANT: Within my disability.
16 THE COURT: Yeah. But you want a legal advisor;
17 that's fine. We can do that.
18 THE DEFENDANT: So the understanding is, Your
19 Honor, that I know which 9-1-1 calls I want to have --
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 THE DEFENDANT: -- part of the record.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 THE DEFENDANT: I know which defense witnesses I
24 want to subpoena.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
50
1 THE DEFENDANT: Now, part of the problem as we
2 speak, Your Honor, I came into custody in November, I
3 mentioned.
4 THE COURT: Yeah.
5 THE DEFENDANT: I have a case from November 2012
6 that's still on appeal in the Oregon Court of Appeals. The
7 issue in that case was the Portland Police refused to accept
8 my defense witness subpoenas. And two judges in this
9 circuit allowed that. So I didn't have a very good defense.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So that's -- that's the --
12 that's what I want to overcome. I don't want to go into a
13 courtroom where a district attorney, well versed in the law,
14 says, Your Honor, I object to this evidence, and I don't
15 have evidence --
16 THE COURT: Oh, okay.
17 THE DEFENDANT: -- that I could ordinarily obtain
18 if I had, one, the financial resources, and, two, the skill
19 set.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Well, let's get a legal advisor
21 for you. So what we'll do, we've signed the judgment of
22 dismissal of the felony matter. We'll have you listed as
23 representing yourself, but with a legal advisor. And that
24 would stay with the Metropolitan Public Defender's Office.
25 They'll appoint one of their misdemeanor lawyers to be the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
51
1 legal advisor then. Okay? And we'll move the case forward
2 and you can have your day in court and -- so we need to set,
3 what's called a trial readiness date on the misdemeanor
4 docket.
5 And go ahead, Mr. Jackson.
6 MR. JACKSON: There has to be an arraignment on the
7 misdemeanor information.
8 THE COURT: Right.
9 MR. JACKSON: First.
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 MR. JACKSON: And then we can proceed with setting
12 dates and everything, yeah.
13 THE COURT: Okay. So in order to arraign you on
14 the -- I haven't arraigned anybody on a misdemeanor for so
15 long, I don't remember what exactly do we need to accomplish
16 there.
17 You can probably tell me, Mr. Stull. What do we
18 need to -- what do we --
19 (Discussion held between Counsel and Defendant.)
20 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Let's do this. Per statute,
21 you've got to strike the aka Barry Joe Stully and that
22 birthdate, because neither one of those were my creation.
23 THE COURT: You don't like that.
24 THE DEFENDANT: No, those were a creation of
25 Officer --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
52
2 THE DEFENDANT: -- Stigameyer (ph) back in 2009.
3 He put a --
4 THE COURT: All right. Otherwise, you're good with
5 the name Barry Joe Stull, right?
6 THE DEFENDANT: And my birthdate is September 24,
7 1958.
8 THE COURT: Oh --
9 THE DEFENDANT: I'm smart enough not to have an aka
10 that's my rare name, Barry Joe, with my rare name Stull with
11 a "Y" at the end. I would call myself Charles Manson --
12 THE COURT: All right. So you got --
13 THE DEFENDANT: -- before I would call myself --
14 THE COURT: -- Barry Joe Stull, 9/24/58. You and I
15 have almost the same birthday.
16 So then that's good. And then you've got the
17 charges there, right? And you're wanting to represent
18 yourself and have a legal advisor, right?
19 MR. RUTLEDGE: Yes, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. RUTLEDGE: Just -- if I could have two seconds.
23 THE DEFENDANT: Oh, yes, I can do -- sure, that's
24 fine. We're going to preserve my rights.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
53
1 MR. RUTLEDGE: So, Your Honor, Mr. Stull has given
2 me permission to reserve his rights --
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. RUTLEDGE: -- which are that Mr. Stull is in
5 receipt of this four count District Attorney's information.
6 He's truly and correctly named. His date of birth is
7 correct in that first caption. We reserve all the rights
8 read into the record this morning in JC-2 or 4, or wherever
9 it was read this morning, including the right to move
10 against this charging document at a later date. And he
11 would enter a not guilty plea as to all four counts.
12 THE COURT: Uh-huh, okay. And then based on what
13 you've told me already, I know you understand the right to
14 have a lawyer to represent you on the misdemeanor matters
15 now. And we kind of jumped over that just because you'd
16 already told me that you -- you want to represent yourself.
17 You've got a history in court where you've prevailed on a
18 case all the way to the Supreme Court where you represented
19 yourself.
20 THE DEFENDANT: Well, I got a reversal in the
21 Supreme Court and a reversal in the Court of Appeals on the
22 way back down.
23 THE COURT: And you --
24 THE DEFENDANT: So we'll just say that.
25 THE COURT: Yeah.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
54
1 THE DEFENDANT: That's true.
2 THE COURT: And you represented yourself.
4 THE COURT: And so you kind of -- you understand
5 how that all works. And then you are wanting someone
6 available to help you with the discovery. So it sounds like
7 I surely can make a finding that you're making a knowing,
8 voluntary, and intelligent waiver of your right to counsel.
9 That's the legal standard.
10 THE DEFENDANT: Sure.
11 THE COURT: Intelligent doesn't necessarily mean
12 smart, right?
13 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
14 THE COURT: It's not necessarily a smart choice --
16 THE COURT: -- but legally knowing, voluntary,
17 intelligent waiver of your right to a lawyer, okay.
19 THE COURT: And then we can proceed along with
20 that.
21 Did you find the --
22 MR. RUTLEDGE: Just one second, Your Honor, if I
23 can.
24 THE COURT: Yeah.
25 MR. JACKSON: I'll see if another courtroom's got

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
55
1 it.
2 THE COURT: Yeah.
3 MR. JACKSON: Because there are some specific --
4 THE COURT: Right. They should have --
5 MR. JACKSON: -- things that he had to do.
6 THE COURT: -- one over in -- in Judge Bergstrom's.
7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'll go grab it.
8 THE COURT: Because they've got CPC now, so they
9 should have one over there. We probably have them here
10 somewhere too, but I don't know where.
12 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, I'm perfectly okay with
13 representing myself.
14 MR. RUTLEDGE: Okay. Are you sure you don't want
15 to have a misdemeanor attorney represent you?
16 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, I'm positive I don't want to
17 have a misdemeanor attorney represent me.
18 MR. RUTLEDGE: Okay.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I do need to have assistance with
20 getting discovery so I can have my witnesses and my evidence.
21 THE COURT: Right. And -- okay, and that's the
22 kind of situation where having a legal advisor then sounds
23 like the best way to go. Okay.
24 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, and just so we're clear
25 on that. My problem -- just briefly -- my problem was, I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
56
1 subpoenaed my medical records from the Multnomah County
2 Health Department, and the gal from the Multnomah County
3 Health Department brang [sic] them in, and those were
4 considered not -- not legal at trial --
5 THE COURT: Right.
6 THE DEFENDANT: -- because of the Evidence Code.
7 THE COURT: Yeah, so you want to be careful of
8 that.
9 THE DEFENDANT: So I need -- I need somebody -- and
10 another problem I had was my neurologist testified on my
11 behalf in 2014, chapter and verse, about my very difficult
12 to understand medical condition, and I wanted to have the
13 audio record of his testimony or the transcript from that,
14 and that was deemed as inadmissible.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 THE DEFENDANT: So without any evidence and without
17 my witnesses, I have a case that's now on appeal three years
18 later.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: So I would -- I would much rather
21 have this all simply be dismissed. But since the --
22 THE COURT: Well, I don't think they're going to --
23 THE DEFENDANT: -- District Attorney --
24 THE COURT: -- I don't think they're going to do
25 that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
57
1 THE DEFENDANT: If they want to -- if they want to
2 push it, I have to rise to the occasion.
3 THE COURT: I think they want to push it, so you've
4 got to rise, okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah. Hey, I've already done --
6 THE COURT: All right. So --
7 THE DEFENDANT: -- I've already done -- this is my
8 eleventh week in custody, all right.
9 THE COURT: All right. So that's why I'm going to
10 get you a legal advisor. But you've got to realize they're
11 on your side, they're going to try to help you with that
12 discovery. Okay?
13 THE DEFENDANT: Sure.
14 THE COURT: And -- so you've got the waiver form
15 there; is that right? So that's --
16 THE DEFENDANT: Waive of counsel.
17 THE COURT: Yeah. Have you signed one of those
18 before?
19 THE DEFENDANT: I've done that -- I've done that
20 before, Your Honor, yes.
21 MR. RUTLEDGE: And I think we actually need two
22 copies of it since we have two cases, or I could write --
23 THE DEFENDANT: So don't write on that one yet.
24 We'll just make another copy right here.
25 MR. JACKSON: Actually, I think you can put both

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
58
1 case numbers.
2 MR. RUTLEDGE: Will they accept that?
3 THE CLERK: I think it doesn't scan.
6 MR. RUTLEDGE: My office. I've got a client
7 waiting there for me right now.
8 THE COURT: All right. So, Ms. Rutledge is going
9 to go over that with you, have you sign that waiver form.
10 And then the other thing we're going to do with
11 your two cases is get a trial readiness date on the
12 misdemeanor docket.
13 So, Mr. Rutledge, we've got a legal advisor from
14 your office, so we probably should go with a trial readiness
15 date about three weeks out, you think?
16 MR. RUTLEDGE: Yeah. I was trying to email to see
17 if I could give a name today, but I don't know if I can.
18 THE COURT: Okay. Can I get one? No, it's not my
19 job, but --
20 MR. RUTLEDGE: You could try.
21 THE COURT: So if we can set this for trial
22 readiness for --
24 THE COURT: Both of them. Set them together. So
25 like three Fridays from this Friday so that they've got

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
59
1 enough time.
2 THE CLERK: 4th of March.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Yeah, so set them both there.
4 And it would be on the -- which letter docket, Ms. Rutledge,
5 are you folks --
6 MR. RUTLEDGE: I -- decades ago when I was there --
7 THE COURT: Yeah.
8 MR. RUTLEDGE: -- it was C.
9 MR. JACKSON: C. I think it's still C.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Yeah, it hasn't changed;
11 I just didn't know which one it was.
12 MR. RUTLEDGE: Okay, yeah.
13 THE COURT: You and I are both out of the
14 misdemeanor loop there, so --
15 MR. RUTLEDGE: Yeah.
16 THE COURT: Okay. So on the C docket then,
17 Christian, for March 4th. So if we just do a minute order
18 on both cases to capture all of this, what we've done is
19 allowed -- so Mr. Stull will be representing himself on both
20 cases with a legal advisor appointed from Metropolitan
21 Public Defender's Office. And then set for trial readiness
22 on March 4th on the C docket.
23 And you know how that works, Mr. Stull, right, for
24 trial readiness? You --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
60
1 THE COURT: -- come and -- so I can't give you a
2 courtroom number yet. They don't know until that week.
3 And then, as far as the custody issues, State have
4 anything further on the custody issue?
5 MR. JACKSON: Well, I mean, it sounds like Mr. Stull
6 may have contacts in the community that were not either
7 contacted or followed up on PRS. So it may make sense to
8 allow them the opportunity to do that and release him if they
9 see fit. So I would ask for PRS to accept it at this point.
10 MR. RUTLEDGE: And, Your Honor, as an advisor --
11 THE COURT: Yeah.
12 MR. RUTLEDGE: -- to Mr. Stull at this moment in
13 time from my office, he has been in custody for quite some
14 time on this case.
15 THE COURT: Yeah.
16 MR. RUTLEDGE: As is pretty evidenced, Your Honor,
17 he has every desire and interest to fight this case.
18 THE COURT: Yeah.
19 MR. RUTLEDGE: He is not a person who is not going
20 to show up. He is going to be present --
21 THE COURT: Yeah.
22 MR. RUTLEDGE: -- and ready at every proceeding.
23 And my belief is with an advisor, that he will probably be
24 raring to go at the first trial readiness. He wants this
25 case resolved.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
61
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. RUTLEDGE: I have personally had contact with
3 many people in the community who are in support of him who
4 are attempting to raise bail money. So I personally do know
5 that there are at least three people that I have talked to
6 in the community, and we have had contact with their
7 representative that he mentioned earlier.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 Mr. Stull, do you have a place to live when you go
10 out of custody?
11 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: You do. Is that here in Multnomah
13 County?
15 THE COURT: Okay. So tell me, do you do better --
16 you do fine showing up for court, right?
17 THE DEFENDANT: When not in jail.
18 THE COURT: Okay. But you don't --
19 THE DEFENDANT: If I'm not.
20 THE COURT: -- you don't forget court dates or
21 anything, right?
22 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, 2012, August to July
23 14, 17th, 17th -- twice on the 17th, twice on the 19th, and
24 I missed court on the 18th, and was arrested on the 19th for
25 missing court on the 18th --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
62
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 THE DEFENDANT: -- because I had so many appearances
3 that I couldn't even track of them.
4 THE COURT: Yeah. So let me ask you --
5 THE DEFENDANT: So other than that, I show up.
6 THE COURT: Okay. So are you better -- have you
7 ever had a requirement to report into Pretrial Release
8 Services office or not?
9 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, I had a -- I have a
10 five-year sentence for marijuana, and I did 17 and a half
11 months in custody, and I did the rest on parole through 1997.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 THE DEFENDANT: So I know how to do that. And in
14 2004, I had a case where I was denied my defenses under the
15 Medical Marijuana Act, using obviously case law, but, you
16 know, that's the way it goes sometimes.
17 THE COURT: Yeah.
18 THE DEFENDANT: And so I had to do what we're
19 calling post-prison supervision and those kinds of things.
20 THE COURT: Okay. So let's do this.
21 THE DEFENDANT: So I've been supervised, if that's
22 what you're --
23 THE COURT: Yeah. So let's have you -- we'll
24 release you on both cases to report to the Pretrial Release
25 Services office, you know, and so we just don't have any

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
63
1 missing court dates or anything like that, okay. I think
2 that's the best way to go.
3 THE DEFENDANT: I do have one issue on that, Your
4 Honor, but I can't --
5 THE COURT: What's that?
6 THE DEFENDANT: -- I can't fill out this paperwork
7 and do it at the same time.
8 THE COURT: Oh, you fill that. Okay. Fill that
9 out and then --
10 THE DEFENDANT: So let me do that and then --
11 THE COURT: Okay. One thing at a time.
13 THE COURT: So you don't know ahead. So you just
14 put it on the C docket. Why do you need to fill in a --
16 THE COURT: Choices. And there's no dockets that
17 say A docket, B docket, C docket?
18 MR. RUTLEDGE: They usually 1-0 -- in the past, it
19 said 106-C.
20 THE COURT: Yeah, is there an option to just
21 select --
23 THE COURT: I don't know what that means. I don't
24 know what that means. Yeah, ask Jimmy.
25 MR. JACKSON: And, Judge, in light of that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
64
1 decision, I'd like to be heard at the appropriate time just
2 briefly.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor --
6 THE COURT: Yeah.
7 THE DEFENDANT: -- when I was taken into custody,
8 as they put me in the patrol car, they removed from me my
9 house keys and my (indiscernible) ID, and they had, prior to
10 that, taken my backpack with my state ID and my other
11 resources, which I assume are at the Portland Police
12 property warehouse.
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 THE DEFENDANT: So to be honest with you, Your
15 Honor, if you let me out of custody right this minute, I
16 still wouldn't be able to get home, and I still wouldn't be
17 able to get into my house, because the Portland Police, kind
18 of illegally, took everything I need.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: So I just want you all to be aware
21 of that, because if I were to go down the street and get on
22 the MAX and head out to my house, I would get arrested by
23 the transit police, and I would be back in jail for not
24 having a fare.
25 THE COURT: Okay. So that's another reason that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
65
1 it's a good idea to have you released to Pretrial Release
2 Services because when you go over there, perhaps they can
3 assist you with that situation. Okay?
4 THE DEFENDANT: Well, I can -- I can take care of
5 myself, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Oh, I know you can.
7 THE DEFENDANT: I can't take care of myself if they
8 take my stuff and lock me up and take my stuff.
9 THE COURT: Right, I know. I know. I'm just
10 thinking that someone there might be able to make a phone
11 call that would get a different response than maybe if you
12 made the phone call. Do you see what I'm saying?
13 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, I just wish that --
14 THE COURT: Sometimes it kind of works that way.
15 THE DEFENDANT: Yeah, I just wish that I wouldn't
16 need a translator because I --
17 THE COURT: I know.
18 THE DEFENDANT: -- I'm articulate.
19 THE COURT: It's real frustrating, but --
20 THE DEFENDANT: I'm articulate.
21 THE COURT: Yeah, I know.
22 MR. RUTLEDGE: And, Your Honor, I just want to make
23 it clear that he's -- that you are appointing an advisor.
24 He's not going completely pro se.
25 THE COURT: Right. Allow Mr. Stull to represent

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
66
1 himself with a legal advisor from Metro Public Defender's
2 office. That's the way we worded that. Okay.
3 All right. And then on the waiver of counsel then,
4 you've gone over this form. Ms. Rutledge has been there as
5 a legal advisor to you as you went over it. And you
6 initialed each of the places here where you need to initial,
7 right, and you filled with your age and 17 and a half years
8 of school. And you -- you know, I've got to go over the
9 part about that you lack legal training and you might not
10 realize any defenses available to you that someone with
11 legal training might realize, right?
12 And you know that the rules for a trial will be the
13 same for you as if you had a lawyer, right?
15 THE COURT: And the State will be represented by a
16 lawyer. I don't know if it will be Mr. Jackson or somebody
17 else, right, and you know that, right?
19 THE COURT: And you're fine with that. And let's
20 see, looking at all of the other things to make sure we
21 don't forget to cover something.
22 You read all of this part about the benefits that
23 you're -- potential benefits that you're giving up because of
24 things that a lawyer might be able to help you with, right?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
67
1 THE COURT: Okay. And so for some of those things,
2 we're keeping a legal advisor there because you want the
3 assistance with discovery, right?
5 THE COURT: And you understand that the Judge,
6 either now or at the trial, can't give you legal any advice,
7 right? You might not want their legal advice anyway, but
8 can't you give your legal advice.
9 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, you're the third --
10 you're the third Judge on this -- in this substitution of
11 counsel hearing for a reason.
12 THE COURT: Oh, okay. And you're not under the
13 influence of any alcohol or controlled substances right?
15 THE COURT: And no one's made any threats or
16 promises to you to get you to waive your right to a lawyer,
17 right?
18 THE DEFENDANT: That's right.
19 THE COURT: Okay. And it sounds to me like you
20 fully understand exactly what's going on here and that that
21 is what you want. Okay. So -- then I make those findings
22 that you understand the information contained in the
23 document. And knowing, voluntary waiver of your right to
24 counsel.
25 And then I'm supposed to review with you the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
68
1 elements of the crimes that are charged and possible maximum
2 penalties. I think Ms. Rutledge did that with you, but --
3 THE DEFENDANT: No, she hasn't, but --
4 THE COURT: Oh, okay. So where did the charging
5 instrument go? So what do we have left -- we have left
6 pending Counts 2, 3, and 4, right?
7 MR. RUTLEDGE: No, Your Honor.
8 MR. JACKSON: No, no. It's new information.
9 THE COURT: Oh.
10 MR. RUTLEDGE: The old indictment was dismissed and
11 it's completely brand new information.
12 THE COURT: Okay. So we've got 1, 2, 3, and 4,
13 right?
14 MR. JACKSON: Correct, yeah.
15 THE COURT: So attempted assault of a public safety
16 officer, resisting arrest, criminal mischief in the second
17 degree, criminal trespass in the second degree.
18 So now you're going to make me do the bar exam and
19 do the elements of those, which I haven't done misdemeanors
20 for a while, so somebody help me out there.
21 MR. JACKSON: Well, on the charging instrument,
22 Judge, if you look at the language underneath each Count, it
23 lays out what they would be proving at trial.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 MR. JACKSON: So --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
69
1 THE COURT: So on the attempted assault of a public
2 safety officer, they're alleging you unlawfully,
3 intentionally intended to cause physical injury to Officer
4 Engstrom, a person you knew was a peace officer.
5 And then on the resisting arrest, that you
6 unlawfully, intentionally resisted Officer Engstrom, and that
7 you knew he was a peace officer; resisted in making that
8 arrest.
9 And then on the criminal mischief in the second
10 degree, that you unlawfully, intentionally damaged personal
11 property, which is the City of Portland's property, and you
12 had no right to do so and no reasonable ground to believe
13 that you had any such right.
14 And then on the -- same thing on Count 4, which is
15 a different count of the same elements there.
16 MR. JACKSON: No, Judge, that's a trespass.
17 THE COURT: Oh, criminal trespass. Okay, sorry.
18 That you unlawfully, intentionally, knowingly, and
19 recklessly entered and remained upon the premises located at
20 1221 Southwest 4th Avenue, which is City Hall. Okay.
21 So you understand all of those elements.
22 And so then the maximum penalty on those would be
23 what?
24 MR. JACKSON: Counts 1 and 2 are Class A
25 misdemeanors. That would be one year in jail.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
70
1 THE COURT: A year, yeah.
2 MR. JACKSON: I think the maximum fine is $6,250.
3 Criminal mischief. Oh, Count 3 is also a Class A
4 misdemeanor, so the same would apply.
5 Count 4 is a Class C misdemeanor, so it would be 30
6 days in jail and $1,000? Is that the maximum for a C
7 misdemeanor?
8 MR. RUTLEDGE: Isn't Count 3 and 4 the same?
9 MR. JACKSON: No, 3 is criminal mischief.
10 MR. RUTLEDGE: Oh, yeah, sorry, you're right.
11 THE COURT: You just did the same thing I did.
12 MR. RUTLEDGE: A "C" is $1,000?
13 THE COURT: I believe that's correct, and 30 days
14 in jail.
15 MR. JACKSON: And 30 days in jail.
16 THE COURT: Okay. All right. So now we've talked
17 all about that, the elements of the crimes and the maximum
18 penalties. And we already talked about the discovery that
19 you want to obtain and so you know about those rights.
20 MR. RUTLEDGE: And, Your Honor, on the other case,
21 Count 1 is also criminal trespass in the second degree.
22 THE COURT: Okay, which we went over the elements
23 of that already.
24 MR. RUTLEDGE: Yes.
25 THE COURT: Okay. So we signed off on that waiver

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
71
1 form now. And I think we've covered everything.
2 Oh, so you need to do -- got to have both cases on
3 there.
4 THE CLERK: Yeah (indiscernible).
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. RUTLEDGE: And, Your Honor, just to be clear on
7 behalf of Mr. Stull, the case numbers on the old felony case
8 and the new felony -- and the new misdemeanor case were the
9 same. And if -- we would want to make sure that there are
10 -- he gets credit for all the time he's served on this case.
11 I think that's one of the reasons the State did it this way
12 is so that he doesn't lose the --
13 THE COURT: Yes.
14 MR. RUTLEDGE: -- time that he has been in custody.
15 THE COURT: Right. Yeah, you don't want to lose
16 that.
17 All right. So you'll go out of custody. You know
18 where to report to Pretrial Release Services, right?
19 THE DEFENDANT: I don't have that yet.
20 MR. RUTLEDGE: (Indiscernible) form.
21 THE COURT: It's at the Justice Center there.
22 Ms. Rutledge is going to grab that form for you.
23 THE DEFENDANT: Oh, Your Honor, there's a matter
24 that I think it's a little bit important. When I was in
25 custody, Sergeant Johnson, who works for Internal Affairs at

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
72
1 the Sheriff's Office, who's known me for previous reports,
2 informed me that while I was in custody, Joe Walsh had a
3 victory in Federal Court regarding the unconstitutional
4 nature of the City Hall trespass exclusion.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 THE DEFENDANT: So where we have a problem with it
7 is that I know, according to State vs. Richard Kennig (ph),
8 that the trespass exclusion that they gave me at 1:00 the
9 day before I was scheduled to testify was, in fact, illegal.
10 And what we have going through the system is the fact that I
11 resisted what I know was an illegal trespass exclusion
12 notice.
13 THE COURT: Okay. So it sounds like you have an
14 interesting issue and that's why we have a trial readiness
15 date so you can move forward with --
16 THE DEFENDANT: But it influences those people that
17 are supervising me, because they say that I resisted a
18 trespass exclusion notice.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 THE DEFENDANT: But if it was --
21 MR. RUTLEDGE: I'm sorry. Do you have your old
22 copy of the paperwork you just handed (indiscernible)?
24 MR. RUTLEDGE: You have both of those?
25 THE DEFENDANT: So that's my concern, Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
73
1 Garbage in, garbage out. If they say I did something
2 illegal that wasn't illegal, the people tend to believe that
3 I did something illegal.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 THE DEFENDANT: And that influences my custody
6 status.
8 THE DEFENDANT: That's why I was in custody, you
9 know --
10 THE COURT: Yes, but now you're going out of
11 custody, so that will no longer be the case.
12 THE DEFENDANT: All right.
13 THE COURT: Right?
14 THE DEFENDANT: I hope I can get to my keys.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Well, you don't need the keys to
16 get out of custody.
17 THE DEFENDANT: I need the keys to get into my
18 house.
19 THE COURT: I understand that.
20 THE DEFENDANT: I need the keys to get in my
21 mailbox, okay.
22 THE COURT: I understand that.
23 THE DEFENDANT: I would like to have my Honored
24 Citizen ID because if I get ill, I can actually show
25 somebody --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
74
1 THE COURT: That's why I want you --
2 THE DEFENDANT: -- that I have a disability.
3 THE COURT: -- to go to the Pretrial Services
4 Office because I think they can help you with that.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay.
6 THE COURT: Okay?
7 THE DEFENDANT: Do you think that's going to be
8 today, Your Honor?
9 THE COURT: Yeah, it will be today. I don't think
10 anyone's going to hold you in custody any longer than they
11 need to, right?
12 MR. RUTLEDGE: Your Honor, just to be clear, you're
13 releasing on both cases?
14 THE COURT: Yep.
16 THE COURT: That order's got both numbers --
17 MR. RUTLEDGE: Thank you.
18 THE COURT: -- on there, right?
19 All right. Mr. Stull, nice to meet you. Have a
20 good day.
21 THE DEFENDANT: All right. Thank you, Your Honor.
24 in Volume 10, March 4, 2016.)
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
75
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 13, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 76 - 77
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable JEAN K.
MAURER, Judge of the Circuit Court, Friday, March 4, 2016 at
the Multnomah County Courthouse, Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

Unknown
Unknown

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
76
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; FRIDAY, MARCH 4, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: And then we're going to go to Barry
5 Stull.
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Your Honor, with that one,
7 it's actually a pro se case --
8 THE COURT: Yes.
9 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- and it's unclear. He
10 has C docket advisory counsel. So before a bench warrant
11 is issued, I think it would be appropriate to check in with
12 C docket to make sure he hasn't shown up over there.
13 THE COURT: Oh, that's fine. And Mr. Stull and I
14 go back a ways, and so sometimes he wants me to be his
15 judge and sometimes he doesn't, so we'll see how that goes.
16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I see.
17 THE COURT: Okay, thanks.
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
77
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 13, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 78 - 90
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable HENRY
KANTOR, Judge of the Circuit Court, Friday, March 4, 2016 at
APPEARANCES

Unknown
Unknown

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
78
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; FRIDAY, MARCH 4, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: I'll pause.
6 THE COURT: That's a problem when that happens.
7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Barry Stull, Your Honor.
8 I'm advisory counsel on it. One of the two cases he has
9 15CR52961. I just double-checked eCourt. Trial readiness
10 is scheduled today, but it wasn't on this docket.
11 THE COURT: Which docket?
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Your Honor, it is on B
13 docket. I brought those files this morning. I did check
14 with a few of the Metro attorneys, and they -- none of them
15 were aware of advisory counsel, so I had to --
16 THE COURT: But now we know, so you'll need to
17 talk about dates.
18 THE DEFENDANT: No, Your Honor. I'm here pro se.
19 And if you'll let me approach here.
20 THE COURT: Sure.
22 THE COURT: We're here to schedule a trial date.
23 THE DEFENDANT: Right. Can I seat here and --
24 THE COURT: Yeah.
25 THE DEFENDANT: -- take over my case because it's

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
79
1 basically --
2 THE COURT: Well, it's only -- it's going to be
3 very brief, because we're just -- but, yes, the answer's --
4 THE DEFENDANT: Right. Right, I'm --
5 THE COURT: -- you may have a seat.
6 THE DEFENDANT: -- trying to save time, Your
7 Honor.
8 THE COURT: You may have a seat.
9 THE DEFENDANT: All right, thank you.
10 THE COURT: So what's the State's proposed trial
11 date?
13 THE COURT: I'm first talk -- one moment.
14 THE DEFENDANT: We're not even there yet, Your
15 Honor.
16 THE COURT: Well, I'm asking a question. When I
17 get to you, I'll get to you.
19 THE COURT: Shh, have a seat.
20 THE DEFENDANT: We're not going to schedule a
21 trial today.
22 THE COURT: Have a seat. I want to know what the
23 requested trial date is.
24 THE DEFENDANT: Go right ahead, but they don't
25 even know the facts of the case yet.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
80
1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am aware of the facts of
2 the case, Your Honor. And the dates that we are requesting
3 are 4/25 for 4/26 with --
4 THE COURT: Okay. One moment.
5 Okay. So, sir, how's that date?
6 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, my name's Barry Joe
7 Stull. I'm first --
8 THE COURT: How do you spell your last name?
9 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you. My name is Barry Joe
10 Stull. My first name is Barry, B-a-r-r-y. My middle name
11 is Joe, J-o-e. My last name is S-t-u-l-l.
12 THE COURT: Stull, thank you.
13 THE DEFENDANT: I was given that name before I was
14 born. That's the name I go by.
15 However, I've had to address, and I still have to
16 address, the fact that this system has -- excuse me language
17 -- dumped on me an aka. The aka has an aka. And worse, the
18 aka has a birthdate.
19 If I can introduce myself. Good morning, Your
20 Honor. My name's Barry Joe Stull. I have a very severe
21 disability. It's a neurological condition. We call that
22 Central Pain, with two capital letters, capital C, capital
23 P, Central Pain. I was at the emergency room twice in
24 November, the week before this was developed, for Central
25 Pain Syndrome.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
81
1 So as a person with a disability, I was arrested.
2 I was taken into custody. My first contact with my --
3 THE COURT: Sir --
4 THE DEFENDANT: Excuse me.
5 THE COURT: No, this --
6 THE DEFENDANT: We're going quickly --
7 THE COURT: We're not going there today.
8 THE DEFENDANT: No, my first contact was when I
9 was given a plea offer.
11 THE DEFENDANT: I got that January 8th, my 45th
12 day in jail.
13 THE COURT: Are you going to ask for a different
14 date?
15 THE DEFENDANT: That was the two years bench
16 probation. I refused that, Your Honor, because I am not
17 guilty. The situation is.
18 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, if --
19 THE DEFENDANT: The facts that they have --
20 THE COURT: -- you don't listen to me, you're
21 going to leave the courtroom.
22 THE DEFENDANT: -- in their case are not --
23 THE COURT: Please call for a Deputy. I'm not
24 going to have this conversation.
25 THE DEFENDANT: The facts --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
82
1 THE COURT: Look at the room here.
2 THE DEFENDANT: Right. I'm a person --
3 THE COURT: You're not the only person here.
4 THE DEFENDANT: -- with a disability. The ADA
5 says we have to schedule my opportunity to present my case.
6 THE COURT: Mr. Stull.
7 THE DEFENDANT: Do you want to reschedule it today?
8 THE COURT: All I'm asking you to do --
9 THE DEFENDANT: Shall we come back another day
10 because I'm not even prepared. They just got the facts. I
11 got her name yesterday. I sent her an email at 7:45 p.m.
12 yesterday with my medical records --
14 THE DEFENDANT: -- with the facts of the case. I do
15 not believe that the State can prosecute this case without
16 violating my civil rights as a person with a disability.
17 THE COURT: Then you can --
18 THE DEFENDANT: So I have to at least have the
19 opportunity to present myself, representing myself, which
20 I've already gone through the protocol, I'm appointed to
21 represent myself on this case.
22 THE COURT: Do you want a trial date or not?
23 THE DEFENDANT: And I'm saying this, we are not
24 doing a trial date. I am now putting into the record in
25 front of counsel, I am moving that this case be dismissed --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
83
2 THE DEFENDANT: -- pursuant to 659A.142 --
3 THE COURT: You may do that, sir, on another day.
4 THE DEFENDANT: -- because the City --
5 THE COURT: That's not what we do today.
6 THE DEFENDANT: Well, this is what we have to
7 schedule because here I am to schedule, Your Honor.
8 THE COURT: You may schedule that. That goes to
9 CPC court. You're in the wrong place.
10 THE DEFENDANT: I'm not in the wrong place, because
11 I called the District Attorney's office, I'm on the C docket.
12 She said today B docket, but here I am. We are on the
13 record. We did call my case.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 THE DEFENDANT: And what I'm saying is, Your
16 Honor --
17 THE COURT: You can say whatever you want; we're not
18 doing that.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I apparently can't say it here to
20 now -- now, so what do I need to do to have --
21 THE COURT: Deputy, we have someone who's very
22 concerned.
23 THE DEFENDANT: -- my hearing?
24 THE COURT: He has -- he wants to be heard. He's
25 simply in the wrong place to present his matter, and he's

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
84
1 refusing to let me talk. So I am trying to help him.
2 THE DEFENDANT: I'm on the docket.
3 THE COURT: I just need you to be here for a moment
4 in case we have a problem.
5 THE DEFENDANT: We don't have a problem. We have a
6 problem that I'm on the docket. One, I'm a person with a
7 disability. This right now is triggering me. It's not
8 helping.
9 THE COURT: I can sense it is.
10 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. What is also not helping is
11 the fact that my court-appointed attorneys did two things.
12 One, they didn't communicate with me. And, two, allowed my
13 personal property --
14 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, I'm going to give you one
15 last chance.
16 THE DEFENDANT: -- moving the evidence to be
17 destroyed while I was in custody.
18 THE COURT: One last chance --
19 THE DEFENDANT: So the State --
20 THE COURT: -- to be quiet and listen. One last
21 chance --
22 THE DEFENDANT: I need to schedule --
23 THE COURT: -- or you're going to go into custody.
24 THE DEFENDANT: -- a hearing for a motion to
25 dismiss.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
85
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 THE DEFENDANT: That's the next thing on my agenda.
3 THE COURT: You may go to the CPC court to schedule
4 that matter.
5 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Let's --
6 THE COURT: I don't do that.
7 THE DEFENDANT: We're done here. Thank you.
8 THE COURT: But we're also to schedule a trial date
9 because I must. You can also --
10 THE DEFENDANT: We can't.
11 THE COURT: Okay. So if there's no other date, I'm
12 going to go ahead and give the State's date. You can then go
13 to the CPC court, get an earlier date for your dismissal.
14 THE DEFENDANT: No, we're going to get -- we're
15 going to get a hearing because --
16 THE COURT: You're going to ask them for a hearing.
17 THE DEFENDANT: -- we're working with a disability
18 and we're chasing our tails.
19 THE COURT: We're going to set this -- let's check
20 4/25 for 4/26. That's it then?
22 THE COURT: Oh, we need a case number.
23 THE CLERK: (Indiscernible) can you give us a case
24 number, please?
25 THE COURT: Or, actually, the DA will have it.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
86
1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's two of them.
2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's two. It's case
3 number 15CR53749 and 15CR52961.
4 THE CLERK: 52961?
5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 52961, correct.
7 THE COURT: We're going to find out if this trial
8 date works, and we're going to schedule it, because that's
9 what I do today. Then you'll get a chance to go to the CPC
10 court, ask for a hearing on a motion to dismiss. They'll
11 schedule it as best they can, and they'll tell you when you
12 have to file your papers, things like that. If you're going
13 to represent yourself, sir, there's a lot of work to do.
14 THE DEFENDANT: I'm a person with a disability.
15 That's a lot of work.
16 THE COURT: I can imagine.
17 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. Tell me where I'm scheduled
18 to be. I'm told I'm not supposed to be here.
19 THE COURT: That's hard and it's unfortunate, but
20 I'm glad you made it here.
21 THE DEFENDANT: No, no, no, no. In fact, I deserve
22 an apology for having to endure that as a person with a
23 disability. Was I at the right place, Your Honor?
24 THE COURT: I have no idea. I just know --
25 THE DEFENDANT: Can you apologize for being on the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
87
1 bench conducting this hearing and answering my question, you
2 have no idea. If you have no idea, Your Honor, why did I
3 even set my alarm this morning to show up? I did that, Your
4 Honor, so I don't get a warrant for my arrest for failing to
5 appear at a place where even you yourself can't say whether
6 I'm at the right place at the right time.
7 THE COURT: I haven't looked.
8 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. So here's what I'm going to
9 do.
10 THE COURT: And I'm not going to look today.
11 THE DEFENDANT: I am going to go to where I'm
12 instructed to go and I'm going to schedule a hearing on a
13 motion to dismiss this case. We don't need to have a trial
14 when they don't even have a case.
15 THE COURT: If you are successful in getting your
16 motion granted, that will cancel the trial date. That's what
17 we'll see.
18 THE DEFENDANT: So then we don't need to schedule a
19 trial date yet, do we?
20 THE COURT: No, we always have to schedule --
21 THE DEFENDANT: That would be premature, wouldn't
22 it?
23 THE COURT: We always have to schedule a trial date.
24 THE DEFENDANT: Apparently you can't, if it
25 violates the law. That law would be the Americans With

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
88
1 Disabilities Act.
2 Going to run these cases.
3 THE DEFENDANT: So shall I wait for my paperwork
4 here, or shall I wait in the back of the room because they do
5 have some --
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 THE DEFENDANT: -- armed Deputies here that probably
8 have something important to take care of --
9 THE COURT: We're going to wait --
10 THE DEFENDANT: -- because they know who I am, Your
11 Honor. This is not going to stop as long as people like you
12 on the bench tell me --
13 THE COURT: All right. The date works.
14 THE DEFENDANT: -- when I ask a question --
15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The State --
16 THE DEFENDANT: -- you have no idea.
17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The State requests a further
18 proceeding day of 4/12.
19 THE COURT: That's allowed. And --
20 THE DEFENDANT: I'm going to wait over here till
21 they have an idea.
22 THE COURT: -- Mr. Bear (ph), you'll have the paper.
23 You'll give that to Mr. Stull, who can then go over there?
24 MR. BEAR: Yes.
25 THE COURT: Okay. We are going to move on to the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
89
1 next case. I'm sorry for the delay.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
90
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 13, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 91 - 103
______________________________________________________________
BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled matter came

on regularly for hearing before the Honorable CHRISTOPHER J.
MARSHALL, Judge of the Circuit Court, Wednesday, April 13,
APPEARANCES

Unknown

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
91
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: And then Stull, first of Barry.
5 THE DEFENDANT: That's me, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Your Honor, this is on the
8 call docket to be sent for -- both cases are on the call
9 docket to be sent out for motions tomorrow. Defense is
10 going to file a motion to dismiss.
11 We were in CPC in front of Judge Wittmayer, who
12 told Mr. Stull that if nothing had been filed by April 11th,
13 the motion would not be heard and the trial dates would
14 remain. The State checked eCourt. There's been nothing
15 filed.
16 THE COURT: Okay. Good morning, sir.
17 THE DEFENDANT: I can speak to that, Your Honor.
18 Your Honor, do you mind if I sit down?
20 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you. Your Honor, I'm a
21 person with a severe disability. It's a neurological
22 condition. And you might recall that I appeared before you
23 on February 9th and agreed to represent myself.
25 THE DEFENDANT: I was released that day. And upon

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
92
1 my release, I was given my Portland Police property warehouse
2 receipt that said my goods would be destroyed, which they
3 were, on February 4th, prior to my getting the notice.
4 This is really sickening for me, Your Honor.
5 There's nothing good about this case from start to finish.
6 I didn't get medical treatment for the whole time I was in
7 jail for 76 days. None of this has been easy for me.
8 The situation is, as a person with a disability, I
9 don't see nine court appearances and a dismissal as a win. I
10 see that as a violation of my civil rights. So yes, indeed,
11 I did not enter a motion to dismiss on the 11th, because
12 actually, part of the problem here, Your Honor, is when I
13 appeared last time in court -- which is some doing for me to
14 get here -- when I appeared last time in court, they actually
15 set a date, and then I got a letter which said, whoops, our
16 bad, and they rescheduled it so I could come here today, Your
17 Honor.
18 But what I got with that in March was a after
19 incident report that was prepared by the Portland Police,
20 which characterizes me as a transient, although I've been
21 living in my housing, which is as a person with a disability
22 for over two years, this whole thing is an utter fabrication
23 on the part of the District Attorney's office, on the part of
24 the City of Portland, doesn't help that the Multnomah County
25 Sheriff did not give me court-appointed attorney calls, nor

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
93
1 it didn't help that my court-appointed attorney didn't do
2 anything but send me discovery before she took a vacation.
3 So I'm going to move for a speedy trial. I
4 haven't had my trial in 60 days. I go in front of different
5 judges every time. I have a different District -- Deputy
6 District Attorney. There's no institutional memory except
7 on my part where there is actually sickening for me.
8 THE COURT: Okay. So let me --
9 THE DEFENDANT: So what I will do --
10 THE COURT: -- let me ask you a question --
12 THE COURT: -- okay, I need to ask you a question.
13 So you have a date assigned for your trial right
14 now, right?
15 THE DEFENDANT: It's the 25th, I believe, of April.
16 THE COURT: Okay. But I want to have my hearing
17 for a motion to dismiss because --
18 THE COURT: Okay. So that was going to be my
19 question.
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The call date is April 25th
23 for trial (indiscernible).
24 THE COURT: Okay. So right now, you've got two
25 cases. They're both set for trial for April 26th and --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
94
2 THE COURT: -- and you're wanting to make a motion
3 to dismiss the cases, right?
4 THE DEFENDANT: Absolutely.
5 THE COURT: Okay. And so you haven't filed
6 anything, but we can send you out with your oral motion.
7 Let's send you to Judge Bushong, and that will be for
8 tomorrow morning, okay, and then you can argue the merits of
9 it tomorrow morning with Judge Bushong, okay.
10 THE DEFENDANT: Right. And, Your Honor --
11 THE COURT: Do you know where he's located?
12 THE DEFENDANT: Yes, I do, Your Honor. And I --
13 THE COURT: How do you know that? You just do.
14 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, I have -- I think it's
15 -- don't -- don't hold me to this, I think it's four or five
16 cases --
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 THE DEFENDANT: -- that were consolidated, that
19 had a trial in 2012 that, believe it or not 2016, are still
20 on appeal --
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 THE DEFENDANT: -- and 11 months after the Court
23 of Appeals had the entire case under advisement, they still
24 have not rendered an opinion.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
95
1 THE DEFENDANT: So I'm going to give Judge Bushong
2 a pass, unlike Judge Hodson and Judge Jones, who I had off
3 these cases, because of my history here. Just -- just to
4 let you know, Your Honor, this is not my --
5 THE COURT: When you say you're going to give him
6 a pass, what do you mean?
7 THE DEFENDANT: That means in 2012, the Portland
8 Police refused to accept my defense witness subpoenas --
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 THE DEFENDANT: -- in violation of statute and the
11 constitution --
12 THE COURT: Okay. So let me --
13 THE DEFENDANT: -- and they kind of bounced that
14 around. And Judge Bushong could have ruled that I needed to
15 have a -- you know, a setover. And he let the matter go to
16 Judge Hodson, who ruled that I shouldn't have a setover. I
17 had my trial without the benefit of my defense witnesses.
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 THE DEFENDANT: That's on appeal, and they're
20 having a hard time down there in Salem admitting once again
21 that the hippie is right. I wish they would just leave me
22 alone and then things would go better for all of us.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 THE DEFENDANT: So, Your Honor, in closing, I did
25 submit to the Deputy District Attorney on the case, the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
96
1 materials I sent to the United States Department of Justice
2 and --
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 THE DEFENDANT: -- primarily, the Multnomah County
5 Sheriff's Office, although, all the agencies have got this --
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 THE DEFENDANT: -- about this unending violation
8 of my civil rights.
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 THE DEFENDANT: I should not even have had to get
11 up this morning to come down here. They should have had the
12 decency as a District Attorney's office to realize that they
13 have no case.
14 When I had talked to you, Your Honor, I had turned
15 down a month earlier -- no doubt, I had turned down a plea
16 offer of two years bench probation. I could have got out of
17 jail for free. Instead, I stuck to my integrity.
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I appeared before you, learned my
20 goods were destroyed, and they still haven't dismissed the
21 case.
22 THE COURT: Okay. So that's --
23 THE DEFENDANT: So I'll appear in front of Judge
24 Bushong.
25 THE COURT: Yes.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
97
1 THE DEFENDANT: I will, right now in front of you
2 and on the record, I'll present to the Deputy District
3 Attorney, a copy of the materials that I submitted, which I
4 would call the letter to -- to Sergeant Scott Johnson.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 THE DEFENDANT: And I'll give them a copy of that,
7 and they could see that these -- these things date back to
8 me, Your Honor, as I do this, to 1989. The Portland Police
9 Drug & Vice gave my ex-girlfriend drugs and money. I went
10 to prison. I filed a motion for return of things seized.
11 1993, I had a hearing and it's still open. I can't even get
12 an order denying my motion in this circuit.
13 THE COURT: Okay. Well, I --
14 THE DEFENDANT: So --
15 THE COURT: Listen.
16 THE DEFENDANT: -- there you have it. I'll see
17 you all tomorrow. Send me a time. I'll get up there.
18 THE COURT: Okay. Well, you won't see me, but
19 you'll see Judge Bushong.
20 THE DEFENDANT: I know you all is plural.
21 THE COURT: And you -- and you know where to go
22 tomorrow, right?
23 THE DEFENDANT: What time was that, Your Honor?
24 THE COURT: That's at 9:00.
25 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. How long do we have

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
98
1 scheduled for that?
2 THE COURT: Well, you're the only one. I didn't
3 send a trial to Judge Bushong, so you would have to --
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And, Your Honor, at the
5 last hearing, he said he was going to have, at least, I
6 think 15 witnesses.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 THE DEFENDANT: I would have done a lot of things,
9 Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 THE DEFENDANT: Instead, I turned this all over to
12 the United States Department of Justice, who sued the City
13 of Portland for the --
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 THE DEFENDANT: -- Portland Police pattern of
16 practice of having excessive force --
17 THE COURT: So you asked me a question, but you
18 didn't let me answer, okay.
19 THE DEFENDANT: I have no questions. I'm telling
20 you I'm a person with a disability, and I am not going to be
21 able to do what I said I was going to do once I learned the
22 depth of the impact on me for the goods that I had.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 THE DEFENDANT: My 30 years of owning my wallet,
25 all the contacts I try to make, to call somebody's whose

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
99
1 business card, I had that when I spoke to you in shackles.
2 THE COURT: Right.
3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And, Your Honor --
4 THE DEFENDANT: In my mind. But when I spoke to
5 you in shackles, it had already been destroyed prior to me
6 even getting a notice that it would be destroyed, Your
7 Honor. This is sickening to even hear. How would you like
8 to be the person with a disability trying to endure it and
9 have them say, I didn't do what I said I was going to do,
10 how and when I said I was going to do it? That's why we
11 have, Your Honor, ORS 659A.142, young lady. 659A.142 means
12 this state must accommodate me as a disability -- person
13 with a disability.
14 THE COURT: Okay. And so I'm attempting to
15 accommodate you. I'm sending you out for a hearing for
16 tomorrow morning --
18 THE COURT: -- with Judge Bushong, okay.
20 THE COURT: 9:00. Okay?
21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And, Your Honor, just for
22 the record, we are objecting for it to be sent out because
23 he didn't file anything in accordance with Judge Wittmayer's
24 order.
25 THE COURT: Right, okay. Thank you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
100
1 THE DEFENDANT: And, Your Honor, I will say that
2 ORS 659A.142 gives me the reasonable accommodation that as a
3 person with a disability, I am not held to these impossible
4 standards.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 THE DEFENDANT: I will try to even read the police
7 reports that they sent me in, I would say, 8 font, by my
8 page magnifier was destroyed while I was in custody.
9 THE COURT: So, Mr. Stull, you already won. I
10 already sent you out.
11 THE DEFENDANT: I did that, Your Honor, but I'm
12 not going to allow them to continue to --
14 THE DEFENDANT: -- violate my --
16 THE DEFENDANT: -- civil rights. When I say I'm a
17 person with a disability, and I say I can't do things how
18 and when I said I was going to do it in light of the
19 prosecutorial misconduct, I don't want somebody to object.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 THE DEFENDANT: I want somebody to show up at 9:30
22 tomorrow morning --
23 THE COURT: No.
24 THE DEFENDANT: -- and lose --
25 THE COURT: No, no, no.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
101
1 THE DEFENDANT: -- with dignity.
2 THE COURT: Mr. Stull --
3 THE DEFENDANT: Are you paying attention, young
4 lady?
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am.
9 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, not 9:30, 9:00.
10 THE DEFENDANT: You're right, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: All right. All right.
12 THE DEFENDANT: Thanks for correcting that.
13 THE COURT: All right. Thank you, sir.
14 THE DEFENDANT: I think this is rude.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 THE DEFENDANT: I think if we're before you, Your
17 Honor, our attention should be on you. And as a person
18 who's appearing in front of you in your court, I will not
19 have this abuse, because it's abusive to me, because I have
20 a disability, and I do not like people talking when --
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 THE DEFENDANT: -- I'm trying -- if she has
23 something to say about my case, she can say it to me. She
24 can say it to you. I don't know who this person is that
25 she's even talking to. I don't have somebody sitting over

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
102
1 here for me to talk to and disturb her train of thought.
2 Now I'm getting quite upset, and you can tell that
3 I'm a person with a disability, because I do not need to
4 point my finger at you, except to tell you that this civil
5 rights violation and this abuse must stop.
6 Thank you, Your Honor.
8 THE DEFENDANT: I'm leaving.
9 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you, sir.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
103
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 13, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 104 - 192
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable STEPHEN K.
BUSHONG, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, April 14, 2016
APPEARANCES

Sean Mazorol, OSB #116398
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
sean.mazorol@mcda.us
Christopher Behre, OSB #130036

Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100
cbehre@mpdlaw.com

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
GENERAL INDEX
VOLUME 13 of 26
April 14, 2016 Proceedings Page No.
Argument on Motion to Dismiss by Defense.................... 2
Rebuttal Argument by the State............................. 73
Response by Defense........................................ 80
Judge’s Ruling on Motion................................... 85
Reporter's Certificate..................................... 89

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
WITNESS INDEX
FOR THE STATE: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
(None.)
FOR THE DEFENSE:
(None.)
EXHIBIT INDEX
Offered Received
FOR THE STATE:
(None offered.)
FOR THE DEFENSE:
101 .............................. 72 .......... 72

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
104
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Good morning. Please be seated.
5 MR. MAZOROL: Good morning, Your Honor. Sean
6 Mazorol, the State, M-a-z-o-r-o-l, bar number 116398. It's
7 the matter of State v. Stull. I have two case numbers. The
8 first is case number 15CR52961 and case number 15CR53749.
9 Defendant is present and out of custody. His legal adviser
10 is also here, Mr. Behre.
11 MR. BEHRE: For the record, Behre is B-e-h-r-e, bar
12 number 130036. As was said, I am legal advisor. Hopefully
13 I'll fit that role.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Give me one second to get my
15 computer going, and we'll be ready to go.
16 MR. STULL: And for the record, Barry Joe Stull,
17 pro se, Your Honor.
19 MR. STULL: Thank you.
20 THE COURT: One second. Okay. And these two cases
21 were sent to me to hear what I understand is a motion to
22 dismiss that Mr. Stull would like heard.
23 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: And so it's your motion. You may
25 proceed.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
105
1 MR. STULL: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor. I should
2 first start, and probably the easiest way is to identify
3 myself for these proceedings as a person with a disability
4 and kind of capture as much of this at one time as we may
5 this morning.
6 I'm going to read the first paragraph of a letter I
7 sent to Multnomah County Sheriff Scott Johnson. The
8 district attorney's office has a copy of that. I also sent
9 it by email on April 6. And I sent that as a result of
10 having some conversation in custody with Sergeant Johnson,
11 and I sent that to the United States Department of Justice
12 as we'll get into a little bit later. But here is this.
13 "I should first state, in spite of any outward
14 appearance of a person with a severe disability, I have a
15 neurological condition, central pain, which is worsened by
16 emotional stress, and among other symptoms destroys sleep,
17 results in chronic pain and nausea, and can be triggered to
18 episodes which have qualities of their own including
19 potentially fatal ones. I'm doing what I can within my
20 abilities to address matters in a timely manner, although
21 what I have recently endured, including in-custody injuries,
22 has itself worsened my condition. Being forced to address
23 these sickening matters is far from how I choose to live my
24 life as a person with my disability."
25 And the footnote here, October 15, 2011, I received

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
106
1 45 minutes of exclusive critical care at Emanuel Hospital
2 Emergency Department to prevent, quote, circulatory failure,
3 unquote. I could die from my neurological condition.
4 So the upshot is that I hoped to prepare for this
5 hearing, but really, I'm hoping that the State sees some
6 reason, and I'll save what I anticipated would be 15
7 witnesses for the trial if they want to proceed to that.
8 These charges relate to two incidents in November
9 of 2015, and if I get the dates correctly, I'll give you my
10 story. That's why I'm here.
11 November 17 I was up at City Hall --
12 THE COURT: So let me stop you just for a second.
13 MR. STULL: Yes, yeah.
14 THE COURT: So this isn't your trial. This is the
15 Motion to Dismiss --
16 MR. STULL: To dismiss, right, right.
17 THE COURT: -- and anything that you say about the
18 circumstances in your -- that led to your arrest and these
19 charges --
20 MR. STULL: Right, right.
21 THE COURT: -- they can use that against you.
22 MR. STULL: That's fine.
23 THE COURT: And they're making a recording of this,
24 so you don't have to say anything.
25 MR. STULL: No, no. Thank you, Your Honor for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
107
1 pointing that --
2 THE COURT: All right. I just wanted to make sure
3 you understood that.
4 MR. STULL: And part of the problem is I really
5 haven't had -- this is the first time actually an attorney
6 from Metropolitan Public Defender is even hearing these
7 facts.
8 THE COURT: Uh-huh, okay. All right. Go ahead. I
9 interrupted you.
10 MR. STULL: Okay. So November 17th, I was at
11 Portland City Hall, and my friend, Moses Rosen (ph), you may
12 recall his trial with the structure with Michael Rose (ph)
13 years ago. It was on the agenda. We sign up, and it's a
14 big we. You could do it yourself, Your Honor, for what's
15 called a communication. It's three minutes at 9:30
16 Wednesday morning, it's on the agenda, they publish it in
17 the agenda, and they put that in the Daily Journal of
18 Commerce. And on the 17 th , since Mr. Rose is a contractor,
19 he was going after the Home Depot which is very close to my
20 home. So he said, hey, throw your bike in the back of my
21 truck and we'll get out of here.
22 And on our way past Old 91 st and Stark, whatever it
23 is there, a fellow was sitting with his butt on the retainer
24 wall, pants pulled down a little bit, and he said call 911.
25 We look back around, he went on his way to go to the store,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
108
1 and I called 911. A police officer came out. And in making
2 that call, and this is important to show you my perspective
3 of things, the gal on the 911 call said, “is he
4 intoxicated,” and I said I really don't know because -- and
5 my experience was 20 years or so ago when I was at Portland
6 Community College, my friend came over and said there's a
7 man over there who's drunk and peed his pants. And he
8 actually was dying and did die of a heart attack. He was
9 just misdiagnosed. So the police officer came out and they
10 hauled the guy off. They knew who he was and put him in the
11 ambulance and no high pressure deal.
12 Later that day I went through what's renamed, but
13 it was the Coordinating Committee to End Homelessness, and a
14 fellow was new in town, and I took him up to the Hazelnut
15 Grove up at -- by the interstate and Greeley, it's the
16 mayor's sanctioned homeless encampment. And as I went to
17 leave, my one friend Michael said, no, come back. And then
18 I went to leave, and my other friend, Hiram (ph), says no,
19 we're serving pizza, and help me get it, and all that kind
20 of stuff. And ultimately I ran into somebody who didn't
21 want me there. And I ended up calling 911. And as I'm
22 talking on the 911 phone call I said, and there's somebody
23 going with my bicycle. And the police came out. And that
24 was on evening of the 17 th .
25 And that triggered my neurological condition to the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
109
1 extent that I took myself to Emanuel Hospital, what was then
2 Friday morning. I went in. They took my pulse. It was 80
3 beats per minute. It should be below 60. And they gave me
4 a quiet room. I talked myself down, and I left, and they
5 gave me the diagnosis central pain syndrome.
6 Sunday following that, I believe it was the 22 nd , I
7 phoned 911 to follow up on the police report from the
8 incident up at Hazelnut Grove because I know how bad guys
9 can take over good things and wreck them. And I had such
10 resistance from the Portland Police Bureau that it's taken
11 me to the point that I called 911, and I said I need a ride
12 to Emanuel Hospital. I don't know why they just simply --
13 and this is all evidenced by the telephone call, so like
14 this is being recorded, it was being recorded.
15 And the ambulance attendant arrived, and I came out
16 my door wearing my gym shorts and holding my exit papers
17 from the previous emergency room. I was wearing the wrist
18 bracelet from the previous, which was Friday. This was
19 Sunday. And I said I need a ride back to emergency at
20 Emanuel Hospital because that's where they actually treated
21 me for that incident back in 2011 which could have been
22 fatal.
23 And just to kind of show how my situation, how it
24 can escalate to quickly, on the ambulance ride, which I
25 already identified a triggering event, on the ride in to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
110
1 (inaudible) it was 175 beats a minute, crossing the Broadway
2 Bridge less than five minutes before I got into the Emanuel
3 Hospital Emergency Department, my pulse was 90. It had
4 escalated to the point where they had to give me an IV and
5 they tried (inaudible) massage, and it doesn't work because,
6 as my neurologist, Dr. Grimm, testified that owing to the
7 changes in my spinal nerves, my condition is a whole new
8 disease on a molecular basis.
9 And so the ambulance, the paramedic, the AMR
10 paramedic, said no, I'm calling the police. And then I end
11 up with very close to ten first responders: the two
12 paramedics, three or four Portland Fire Bureau, I think four
13 police officers.
14 THE COURT: So it --
15 MR. STULL: That was Sunday night.
16 THE COURT: So and this is before the ambulance --
17 the ambulance didn't take you to Emanuel or is this at
18 Emanuel?
19 MR. STULL: Yes, I got to Emanuel, but I'm telling
20 you how --
21 THE COURT: Oh, okay, okay.
22 MR. STULL: This is preceding that.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. STULL: Okay. So the first time I went to
25 Emanuel, this episode, was Friday following the Wednesday

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
111
1 event.
2 THE COURT: Okay. I got that.
3 MR. STULL: Okay. Then I called on Sunday and had
4 this problem with my interface with the Portland Police
5 trying to get access to records on the police report for my
6 records which is what the --
7 THE COURT: Right. Right. I got that.
8 MR. STULL: It just didn't go through, like what's
9 his GPS's key (ph) number, you know, like, Your Honor --
10 THE COURT: You were trying to figure out what
11 happened to your bike, and --
12 MR. STULL: No, no, no. I had my bike --
13 THE COURT: Oh, you had your bike.
14 MR. STULL: But just reporting on that incident.
15 THE COURT: Oh, I see.
16 MR. STULL: Right. And so what happened was, you
17 know, we have a policy, 17 years of hard work later, that
18 the police give you a business card. That fellow was out.
19 He handed me his partner's, wrote his name on it, and it was
20 raining, so it got kind of blurry, and I just wanted to get
21 the facts.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 MR. STULL: I was just on a fact finding thing.
24 THE COURT: All right. Got that.
25 MR. STULL: Okay. So Sunday night, not a high

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
112
1 pressure deal from me, but it turned into a high pressure
2 deal when I simply couldn't get the information for whatever
3 reasons. I don't like the black cloud that follows me
4 around.
5 So anyhow, the upshot is, in that -- my situation
6 has deteriorated enough that I myself called 911. I knew
7 what was going on, and I don't know that I have the
8 healthcare, we have -- I know that I was treated there. I
9 don't know what's up with AMR, I don't know why the
10 paramedics there. I do know that the Fire Bureau responds
11 whenever there's a 911 call. And, excuse me, Fire Bureau --
12 Firefighter Sampson (ph) said I needed a knuckle sandwich?
13 I -- skipping along here because I want to get
14 through this, I talked to one of my neighbors, and I said
15 did you hear me saying to the police that I could die from
16 this, and he said yes. And I said, well, I really don't
17 want to talk to you much about this because this is a HUD
18 violation because my neighbor is here, persons like myself
19 with disabilities, and having that encounter where the
20 police and everybody are standing around where I'm screaming
21 my, quote, fool ahead off, unquote, saying central pain
22 syndrome, central pain syndrome.
23 Ultimately, and it was a while, one of the police
24 officers says, I'll give up a ride to the hospital. Puts
25 handcuffs on me. One of the ambulance attendants, not the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
113
1 one that initially showed up at the door of the two, shot
2 something into my one arm, shot something into the other
3 arm. I passed out. I woke up at Emanuel Hospital emergency
4 room in the treatment room next to the one I'd been in a few
5 days earlier. I walked out; there's Emanuel Hospital
6 security guards, two of them. They're escorting me out of
7 the building.
8 I didn't know what time it is because I don't know
9 how long I had been unconscious. I do know it was cold
10 outside. I do know I have my Honored Citizens Fare paid for
11 in my pocket, and I was going to go to the information desk
12 and ask when the next bus was so I didn't have to spend, on
13 a Sunday, an extraordinary amount of time outside. Didn't
14 make it. They arrested me. One of them says, oh, he had a
15 trespass exclusion a couple of years ago.
16 So the Portland Police came out, and I said, if you
17 physically abuse me I'm going to break your police car. If
18 you just let me get up and sit in the car, I'll ride this
19 one out. And I did. And I sat in the Justice Center Jail
20 watching the reader board for hours after it said ROR,
21 release on recognizance, because they have a system there
22 now, there's actually a reader board that shows your booking
23 photo, and shows whether you're going to get housing, which
24 means they might transport you to (inaudible). It doesn't
25 mean you're going to get housing like we're talking about

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
114
1 your homeless crisis. No, it means you're going to get in
2 the jail.
3 So anyhow, I got let out of the jail at 3:00 in the
4 morning, still wearing my gym shorts and tee shirt. The
5 last bus to my house, at least down here at 4th and by the
6 gas station, by R2 D2 (ph), the China Gate, it goes through
7 there 1:55 in the morning. The first MAX don't start
8 running to my house until hours later. So I get out,
9 39-degree weather, wearing by shorts and gym shirt, and I
10 went in the ambulance to the hospital because I was sick.
11 That was early Monday morning.
12 I got home after daylight. Because what I first
13 did is I took myself to the 7-Eleven, I got a couple
14 burritos, and I know the trick when you get forced out into
15 the cold, you've got to endure it. So then the MAX started
16 running, I got one of those, and then finally got out to my
17 house.
18 I had to go to court Tuesday morning. Well, first
19 thing for me Tuesday morning was seeing the car outside my
20 neighbor's for the Multnomah County Health Department
21 Medical Transport is on the side of her car. And she's
22 picking up my neighbor. I since know that somebody has been
23 knocking on the door trying to get Gary to come out. That's
24 his name. His house is completely aluminum foiled up. You
25 can't see in or out. I don't know; I've never been in. You

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
115
1 can't see in any of the windows. He's got it all blocked
2 off. And I've seen him maybe five times, four times, three
3 times, in over two years. I just never see the guy.
4 Having him being getting a medical transport ride,
5 I said to the driver, we had an incident out here the other
6 night that was pretty traumatic for me, and it got a lot of
7 attention, and I just want you to inform whoever you're
8 taking him to that that might have been a triggering event
9 for him. I don't know what his issues are. I just want you
10 to know that right here there was this big, you know, police
11 car and ambulance and all that kind of stuff.
12 So I then was going across the street, there's a
13 crosswalk at 109 th Avenue, and it's the Indianapolis 500 for
14 people out there on Stark Street. And before I got across
15 the street a couple things happened. I was writing down the
16 cell -- the number of the guy who was talking on his cell
17 phone as he was pushing his bumper against my legs, as I was
18 writing down his license plate number because he almost ran
19 me down. And the fellow on the other side of the street
20 said there's a homeless man, he's out in the street, and
21 there's no crosswalk.
22 Well, it turns out both of these fellows are from
23 Washington, where they don't have our yield-to-pedestrian or
24 crosswalk-marked-or-not law. And I've been living at this
25 same house for other two years. So I was hardly the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
116
1 homeless person. I was hardly not in a crosswalk. And the
2 fellow ran off telling me -- and they told me I was the
3 third person that called 911 on you. So I can't get on the
4 bus to go to court, which I have today for the Emanuel
5 Hospital arrest where I mentioned I got out 3:00 in the
6 morning the day earlier.
7 So I watch my bus go by; I watch another bus go by;
8 I watched another bus coming. I get on that bus because
9 nobody is responding. I can't leave because that means I
10 was the homeless guy out in traffic or somebody that fit the
11 description, and God knows why I'm running away. So I had
12 to go to court because if I didn't there would be a warrant
13 issued for my arrest.
14 So prior to getting off that exact same number 20
15 bus, down here when I got off at 5 th and Burnside, it was
16 after I talked to three transit police, because a woman who
17 got on the bus, the same stop as me, kicked me. She just
18 full on attacked me. Getting almost run over by a car,
19 getting, you know, kicked on the bus. These are not
20 stress-free events. Plus I'm late for court, and I don't
21 want a warrant issued for my arrest.
22 So one of the things that I had as a coping
23 mechanism for my disability was a white board. I mean it's
24 a cork board and a white board. And I had on that a card
25 that said my name is Barry Joe Stull, please call 911 for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
117
1 emergency transport to Emanuel Hospital because I cannot
2 vocalize. And I handed that fellow, a fellow, that card
3 outside what we call big pink, U.S. Bank tower there between
4 Burnside and Oak Street. It occupies a couple blocks. And
5 I said I have to go to court. There's already been this
6 incident on the bus, there's already been the 911 calls out
7 in, you know, 108 th and Stark, or 109 th and Stark, and I need
8 you to just, on my behalf, call 911. Let them know that I'm
9 going up 5 th Avenue to Madison and going in the Justice
10 Center. So everybody knows where I'm going, where I'm at.
11 So I did that, and when I get in the Justice
12 Center, as we do here, we take off our garments and we
13 prepare to go through the metal detector, and the fellow
14 wasn't running the belt. I said get started, I have to go
15 to court. I'll be finished with my stuff before you are. I
16 take off all my metal, put it in my wraps, sail right
17 through. He won't even start until I have everything done,
18 and it's a big pile of stuff, and then he starts going
19 through it. And I said the hell with it; you keep it.
20 I scurry up the steps, and then I have another
21 fellow coming up after me. He says your stuff. And it all
22 cleared the metal detector. I come down, I grab my stuff
23 off the end of the roller belt; the second guy who met me at
24 the top of the steps tries to push me out the door. I've
25 got to go to court or get a warrant for my arrest. I can't

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
118
1 even get in the courthouse. I got kicked in the bus. I
2 almost got run over by a car from a guy talking on his cell
3 phone.
4 Skipping some chapters, when I got out of custody,
5 they gave me my trespass exclusion from the Justice Center
6 because I shut down the system there and actually was
7 sitting on the security guard's foot when I negotiated with
8 the -- I've got a name here. I want to say Fair (ph), a
9 corrections deputy. I talked to her, and I said you're just
10 going to let me walk out of here, and I'm going to go down
11 the street, and I'm going to go into the Federal Courthouse,
12 and that was that. That was the Tuesday I'm talking about,
13 relating to my (inaudible).
14 I went over to the Federal Courthouse because I
15 knew this whole thing with the police breached the
16 settlement agreement with the United States Department of
17 Justice about the use of force and all that kind of stuff.
18 I mean, for Christ's sake, getting handcuffed and shot with
19 drugs until I'm unconscious on the way to the hospital is
20 hardly a hands-free.
21 Anyhow, it turns out that the folks that did the
22 settlement -- I was part of that back here in 2014. I did
23 my public testimony, and February 2014 there was a pretty
24 massive public hearing. And it turns out that all those
25 folks are now in Washington, D.C., the U.S. Deputy Attorney,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
119
1 Adriana Brown, and so on. So it was basically there's
2 nobody home, you know, this is not the place.
3 And so at that point I knew how sickened I was.
4 And I walked across to the City Hall where there's an Office
5 of Neighborhood Involvement where they answer the telephone
6 "city/county information." And I walked in and I said I
7 need a Multnomah County Medical Department transport ride to
8 my home, just like my neighbor got this morning.
9 At the time I had G4S, I typo-ed it for days now as
10 Q4S, G4S Security, James Wood, was standing right next to
11 me, very close, I mean right next to me. And I told him
12 about the incident over here at the Justice Center Jail, on
13 my way into court rather, and I went upstairs as I was
14 waiting to see -- what happened was, the actual exchange was
15 important. I'll get back to that. But I went upstairs, and
16 on my out I stopped into Amanda Fritz's (ph) office, and I
17 got a lollipop to take this pressure I had from the security
18 at City Hall off.
19 And I got a lollipop from Jasmine Gamble (ph). And
20 she's known me for years, Your Honor. And I said, oh, and
21 by the way my father has a picture of a lollipop you gave
22 me, and me eating a lollipop, and thanks a lot. Well, I
23 know now, and that's important, and then I'll flush out the
24 details, that the City excluded me because I went into the
25 city Office of Neighborhood Involvement and demanded a city

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
120
1 ride home when, in fact, it was specific, Multnomah County
2 Health Department medical transport. I really don't need an
3 ambulance and ten first responders. I need to have somebody
4 that I'm safe with, that I just get a ride, 15 minutes later
5 I'm in my house once they pick me up. No big deal for me,
6 as a client of the Multnomah County Health Department with
7 healthcare.
8 I have my healthcare. All these things were not
9 easy for me to get. My housing was not an easy thing to
10 get. My status as a person with my, I grant it was not
11 easy, and I have all these things. And so I now know that
12 the exclusion, in their mind, was a product of my demand of
13 a city service that doesn't exist. Instead, what I did was
14 I asked for a county service that does exist.
15 And just as to kind of bolster my -- I'm not
16 totally nuts, is next door at the Portland Building I saw a
17 vehicle, the city, it said 823 -- 503-823-4000 is the
18 number, and then driving by was one with the county,
19 503-823-4000. They answer the telephone there "city/county
20 information, can I help you?" And I just happened to be a
21 walk-in client. And the gal at the desk apparently didn't
22 know that the Multnomah County Health Department had a
23 medical transport or didn't know what was going on, and she
24 handed me the phone and says you're going to have to -- we
25 don't provide ride service here. You're going to have to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
121
1 make a private phone call. And she handed me the phone.
2 The comedy routine continued. I dialed 823-4000.
3 The phone rang across to counter, to her, and I said can I
4 have Marco Circosta please. He works with the office of
5 Deborah Kafoury. When I interface with her office, I see
6 Marco Circosta. I said Marco, Barry Joe Stull at Portland
7 City Hall, I'm sick, I need a Multnomah County Health
8 Department transport ride to my home. Got my lollipop and
9 got out of there.
10 But Mr. Wood, and then two other of the security,
11 told me that I had a 24-hour trespass exclusion from
12 Portland City Hall. And I said that's not legal. I'm on
13 the agenda for 9:30 in the morning. I had my agenda topic
14 of the Free Music Zone in the 1994 Partnership Agreement
15 with Street Musicians. That document is important to me, and
16 that date was important to me because in 1994, when they
17 adopted that 1994 agreement, we'll call it, it has that free
18 music zone section in the language, and it was endorsed by
19 Portland City Hall, including Charlie Hales who is now
20 mayor. So I was going to go in front of the fellow who
21 signed it with the promise that they were going to support
22 it.
23 That document is lost in the archives. I went to
24 city archives after the auditor said that they couldn't find
25 the 1994 partnership agreement. I got my copy of it in 2011

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
122
1 from the City. I knew by then that in 2010 the Sidewalk
2 Management Ordnance has that as an express exception. If
3 I'm a performing as a street musician pursuant to the 1994
4 agreement, the Sidewalk Management Ordnance doesn't apply.
5 So had the City, on the sign out here a block or two away in
6 front of City Hall, Sidewalk Management Ordnance saying that
7 that 1994 agreement is an exception, but there's no 1994
8 agreement.
9 I had also spoken to Noise Control, Paul van Orden,
10 and he said he had a copy of it, and he said he was going to
11 post it on his website. And I don't know whether he's done
12 that or not. I'm just saying that when I was going in, I
13 was going in on a really, really politically charged
14 situation because the Sidewalk Management Ordnance was voted
15 in without a quorum back in 2010 because Commissioner Dan
16 Saltzman left the meeting and telephoned in his vote, and
17 they didn't make any of the things that were made an
18 electronic communication legal. So they just didn't legally
19 vote that in.
20 And so I knew that all the time, so -- and I also
21 had the situation where we had the housing emergency crisis
22 and the Hazelnut Grove where I had my -- where I had my
23 incident, I felt threatened enough I called 911 for crying
24 out loud.
25 And the entire five-plex, (inaudible) Court

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
123
1 Apartment was vacant for, at that point, over four years,
2 and it's affordable housing. It's owned by my former
3 landlord, PCRI, and PCRI is funding with and funded by and
4 partnering with the City. So the apartment complex where I
5 fought bitterly a 30-day no cause ten years ago only to have
6 20 grand of my property destroyed. This is no secret. It's
7 all over the map.
8 They've been keeping the affordable housing vacant
9 and haven't collected some quarter of a million dollars in
10 affordable housing rent in the tightest rental market in the
11 country. And I said to city hall, with Chief of Police
12 O'Dea present in January of 2015 --
13 THE COURT: So can I ask you a question?
14 MR. STULL: Yeah, yeah.
15 THE COURT: Because you kind of lost me a little
16 bit.
17 MR. STULL: Yeah, I'm sorry.
18 THE COURT: Because I was following that they gave
19 you the 24 hour trespass exclusion from City Hall --
20 MR. STULL: Right, right, right.
21 THE COURT: -- and you were objecting to that
22 because you said, hey, I'm on the agenda --
23 MR. STULL: And saying the circumstances of why I
24 was on the agenda.
25 THE COURT: Got it, got it.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
124
1 MR. STULL: So, in my mind, you don't have to be
2 paranoid or just because you're paranoid doesn't mean
3 they're not out to get you.
4 In my mind, I had every reason to think that people
5 didn't want me to appear at city council and talk under
6 those circumstances. I -- there's a gal here in town, and
7 when I was searching for some of this stuff on the internet,
8 Mary Ang (ph), and she posts, and sometimes she'll be
9 sitting next to me on one occasion as I was giving my City
10 Hall testimony. And it was going out on cable access on the
11 internet. But Mary Ang called one of my presentations
12 "driving in coffin nails" because I'm really well skilled in
13 the law, I'm skilled in the facts, I was there historically,
14 and I don't give them any room to go, there's just nowhere
15 to go with this stuff.
16 So the decent fellow that I am, I told them the day
17 before, I'm coming in, I'm on the agenda, and on the way in
18 cell phones started ringing. You know, I'm giving them far
19 more credit than they deserve, especially in hindsight.
20 They didn't do the decent thing and find out I was right.
21 But in the interim Judge Simon ruled in Walsh v. ING (ph)
22 that the entire section of the City Trespass Code was
23 unconstitutional on its face.
24 So I knew that, and I knew Joe Walsh was taking
25 this case to federal court because I told Joe Walsh, take

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
125
1 your case to federal court, go up to the seventh floor and
2 get the forms and fill them out. And then I shared the
3 State v. Koenig (ph) case law with Joe, which is how we
4 interpret the trespass from public buildings here in Oregon,
5 and I knew that. And I'd also used the Koenig case when I
6 was arrested in February of 2012 at Central Precinct lobby.
7 Your Honor, I went in to report as a protected
8 party with a restraining order because my situation is
9 something I don't suffer abuse. So I got a restraining
10 order, and a fellow was violating it, and I went in to
11 report it. And I was arrested in the Central Precinct
12 lobby, and I was found not guilty on my Motion of Judgment
13 of Acquittal in -- the arrest was in February, and the
14 judgment was in May of 2012.
15 And how I got arrested was Sergeant Holbrook posted
16 a booking photo with the orders that if I came into Central
17 Precinct, arrest me for trespassing. So I'm on the list
18 with the Portland Police. And every time, with the
19 exception of the time I mentioned at Emanuel Hospital, that
20 I'm taken into custody, I am physical abused.
21 Just referring to the documents the State provided
22 in discovery, Portland Police Bureau Officer Sing (ph)
23 reported at the arrest at City Hall that I said don't put
24 the handcuffs on me tight please because I have neuropathy.
25 I'm a musician, I play the piano and the mandolin, and other

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
126
1 things, and as I touch my fingers here right now, Your
2 Honor, they tingle on the backs of my hands because I've had
3 handcuffs on my hands so many times.
4 I was arrested performing as a street musician in
5 August, 2011, not guilty. That's the booking photo that
6 Sergeant Holbrook put on display at Central Precinct. I was
7 arrested October, November -- August, October, November,
8 December, February, July 14 th , July 17 th , July 17 th again,
9 July 19 th , July 19 th again.
10 The second time on July 19 th , Sergeant Holbrook
11 showed up when I was about to get in the ambulance and said
12 we've got your ride here, Mr. Stull. He gave an “I refuse
13 medical attention” form that they filled out on my behalf,
14 they gave that to the Justice Center medical staff, I was
15 locked in cell door S-175 for I think sixteen hours or some
16 really (inaudible). No medical treatment. The jail door is
17 permanently bent in the frame, and it looks like it got run
18 over by a truck because I could die from this. When
19 adrenaline is triggered and it feeds back and it makes that
20 heart rate go, it must go somewhere, externally or
21 internally.
22 So I've got the practice now that when they arrest
23 me, and it's pretty outrageous when they do, Your Honor,
24 when they arrest me I break their police cars because I know
25 I don't get medical treatment in the Justice Center Jail,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
127
1 and I know from my neurologist telling me that if I vent it,
2 it's gone. Fight or flight. There's no fleeing, and
3 there's no fighting because I'm not going to hurt people.
4 So the lens I'm trying to draw down to today, Your
5 Honor, is under our Oregon disability laws, the State of
6 Oregon is prohibited from disability discrimination, just
7 like -- and it turns out with the Oregon administrative
8 rules, the State is under the same interpretation as public
9 accommodation.
10 And the arrest took place because I said I was on
11 the agenda, and I wasn't going to leave. And they insisted
12 on having people come in here. And I have read the police
13 reports. It's incredible the font size they send that in.
14 But I've read the police reports, and it says that the
15 police were called Tuesday, the day I got my lollipop; the
16 Portland Police were called that day. And then it says the
17 next morning, according to one of the versions, and there
18 are conflicting versions, and that's kind of what I'm trying
19 to address, the next morning that they just wanted me to
20 leave.
21 And then it says that when I was approached by
22 Sergeant Axfilm (ph), I believe he pronounces it, he shoved
23 me in the center of my chest because he felt that once he
24 placed himself within a certain proximity of me, that I made
25 a threatening move toward him which meant that he had to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
128
1 shove me in the center of my chest.
2 And in my massive file here, Your Honor, I have
3 what was the December, 2011, address or arrest. I got on
4 the MAX and transit -- Multnomah County Sheriff, I believe
5 deputy, but Mowery (ph), was assigned to transit duty, and
6 he got on the MAX, and he came up behind me and grabbed me
7 on the shoulder and said, “Are you Charley?” And I said no,
8 and that's offensive physical contact. I want your badge
9 number. You can have an encounter with me without touching
10 me. And I told that story to one guy, and he said that's a
11 good way to get punched, just come up behind somebody and
12 put your hand on them. I wouldn't even do it here to my
13 assigned counsel.
14 So anyhow, how I sent this document to Sergeant
15 Johnson was I had -- I report this stuff to internal
16 affairs. So I can recall when I was relating that incident
17 to the internal affairs, one of the two that were sitting
18 there said that he was having none of that. I want your
19 badge number. No, I'm busting you. I said -- he said you
20 have to get off the train. I said I'm getting off this
21 train because I don't want to ride with you. I wasn't
22 Charlie Bernbeck (ph) who he thought I was.
23 And so when I stood up, in December, 2011, it was
24 after this October 175 beats a minute thing, I got pushed in
25 the chest, both hands, boom. I had my trial. Prior to my

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
129
1 trial I went by ambulance from the federal attorney's office
2 over here on the seventh floor because I was just absolutely
3 beside myself because I got charged with being on the train
4 illegally, which I was found not guilty. And I got charged
5 with, I think, harassment, an offense of where I touched
6 him, which I didn't do. And what I was found guilty of was
7 pulling the red handle on Pioneer Square on the stop MAX
8 because the same transit deputy pushed me off the train into
9 a boarding woman passenger.
10 Then I went to court, and I saw that I was charged
11 with being on the train illegally. I was charged with, you
12 know, harassment, when I hadn't done that and is why I
13 prevailed in court. But the shock of having those charges
14 brought against me meant that I have a pantheon of bills I
15 owe; I have a thousand-dollars-plus bill for an ambulance
16 ride from the Federal Courthouse to OHSU for my central
17 neuropathic pain being triggered.
18 When I walked into the Justice Center to go to
19 court and find out that I had charges that were totally
20 fabricated by a cop who -- a transit cop, Sheriff's Deputy
21 Mowery, who made up the encounter thinking I was somebody
22 else, physically abused me. I deserved to ride -- I rode
23 the bus or the MAX today, and I didn't have anybody punch me
24 or push me in the chest. It was great. I loved it, right?
25 So I don't like it when I'm at City Hall certainly,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
130
1 and frankly I do not even recall that shove in my chest. I
2 don't even know how that happened. But I do recall Officer
3 Todd Engstrom saying, and when you get out of jail, this was
4 important to me, when you get out of jail you're going to be
5 arrested for assaulting a police officer.
6 So whatever they're there taking me into jail for
7 is not going to be the last one. There's one more coming.
8 I've got one more coming after this.
9 So how -- none of this process should have
10 happened. It all should have been filtered out at the
11 moment, and close to this arrest on YouTube, and I only saw
12 two minutes of, believe it or not, on a Hindi Indian music
13 site. I just clicked through and there it was. But it was
14 about two minutes before the library kicked me off, and I
15 didn't need to go back because what it said was I need
16 emergency medical attention for my central pain syndrome. I
17 said I could die from this. Call 911.
18 That was minutes before the police came. When the
19 police came, the police told me, and it's in the police
20 report, they told me an ambulance was outside. And when I
21 was minding my own business up here at the central library
22 and some guy punched me so hard into my seat my groin hurt
23 from the muscles being stretched, I went to the Emanuel
24 Hospital, they took a -- you know, they ran me through the
25 expensive scanner to make sure I was all right.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
131
1 But the point is, when the ambulance responds, the
2 paramedics come into the building with a gurney and they
3 take you out. They don't wait outside at the curb. So I
4 knew the police were lying to me, and once again, just like
5 two days, whatever it was earlier, however you want to do
6 the math, certainly not much more than 48 hours earlier, the
7 police interfere with me getting medical attention, and then
8 they abuse me, they're hauling me out of the building, and
9 then they send me to the Justice Center Jail where I don't
10 get medical treatment, and I went through all that.
11 And the problem with me, Your Honor, is that I have
12 enough experience to not break the law. I also have enough
13 integrity to know, as I do now and I did then and as we all
14 know, that you can't just pick somebody you're going to
15 bird-dog in the building because he's got some controversial
16 stuff you're tired of hearing about years and years later.
17 You can't just say to me, less than 24 hours, you can't be
18 here tomorrow. There's just no way that that's legal, and I
19 said so at the time. And I came in the next morning.
20 Instead of having the integrity to say, Mr. Stull, you're
21 right or, Mr. Stull, you're wrong, but we're going to give
22 you a provisional exclusion so we don't knock you off the
23 agenda again. Because the only time, Your Honor, that I
24 ever missed a communication, and there were three of them,
25 was when I was in jail.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
132
1 On appeal right now I appeared before you in a case
2 those (inaudible) arrests in July of 2012, just to sum up
3 here. I was arrested August, October, November, December,
4 February, July 14 th , 17 th , 17 th , 19 th , 19 th , August 29 th . The
5 only thing I have a conviction for was December pulling the
6 red handle on the MAX and the July 17 th , 17 th , 19 th , 19 th , and
7 August 29 th are on appeal because the Portland Police refused
8 to accept my defense witness subpoenas and got away with it
9 in this courthouse.
10 And so May of 2015 I got my notice that that appeal
11 was under advisement. Here it is almost a year later; they
12 still haven't rendered the opinion. These things are
13 unresolved which means that at Emanuel Hospital they think
14 it's perfectly all right to when I'm waiting in the waiting
15 room to come out and call the police because, "He's here
16 again" they say, and there's never anything wrong with him.
17 It's a whole new disease on a molecular basis. And so my
18 issues here are the City of Portland, through its agent, the
19 security guard, violated my rights as a person with a
20 disability, as did the Office of Neighborhood Involvement
21 staff when they simply didn't inquire as to how I could or
22 couldn't obtain a Multnomah County Health Department medical
23 transport ride.
24 Also, the City's claim and their permanent
25 exclusion from City Hall, that I demanded a ride from

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
133
1 Jasmine Gamble in Amanda Fritz' office when I actually got a
2 lollipop, that's easily disproved.
3 And how -- these are all triggering events for me,
4 Your Honor. And the Oregon Revised Statute Chapter 659A has
5 the definitions, and episodic is well recognized. And I'm
6 triggered into episodes. And even on this case, yesterday,
7 I came in and here we are. Not an easy event for me to
8 accomplish because they said they were going to object
9 because they didn't get any paperwork in. But I went to get
10 discovery because I had gotten an email from the district
11 attorney's office saying come to the sixth floor, bring your
12 ID. And I did that, and I did that, and they wouldn't give
13 it to me. They called security. That's when the guns show
14 up.
15 And lucky for me, these guys with guns have been
16 following me around this courthouse for years, and they all
17 know my story. I mean they know that I get upset, that I
18 yell, and I get upset, and I yell because I got the email;
19 if I could log onto the internet right now, and I could show
20 you it. And I shouldn't have to live my life that way.
21 Because they invite me here to the courthouse, I come, and
22 they make mistakes and it's all my fault.
23 So I'm trying to affect that as a person with a
24 disability, the State of Oregon cannot drag me through this
25 with nine court appearances and a dismissal as a person with

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
134
1 a disability because I never should have been subject to the
2 arrest. And I want to do that before I kind of flush out
3 why I feel that I can show you here in five minutes why I
4 had ineffective counsel and how, ultimately, that led to the
5 destruction of my property.
6 I got out of jail on the 9 th of February once the
7 district attorney dismissed the felony charge I was in on,
8 felony assault of a police officer. And I learned and
9 confirmed the next day, and the day following, that my
10 property was destroyed on February 4 th . Everything that I
11 had in my possession when I was arrested at City Hall, 9:30,
12 November 25 th , was destroyed including my flash drive and my
13 house keys removed from my belt loop by Sergeant Axfilm
14 while I was in the police car. When I got out I had to ask
15 Deputy Marshall Kelly to call my landlord to see if I could
16 get keys to get into my house.
17 I joke now that the police have more keys to my
18 house than I do because my landlord doesn't have a key to my
19 back door, and I don't either. Just those were taken from
20 me. Now the interesting thing about that, Your Honor, is I
21 have my Honored Citizen ID, and I carry it on the exact same
22 type of lanyard, and I got that with my property on my
23 release. I also got with my property the Portland property
24 warehouse receipt prepared by Officer Engstrom which has on
25 the plastic buckets and the guitar and the -- my backpack

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
135
1 with personal items. And I had years of important documents
2 that I'd saved by PDF, and it was on my flash drive because
3 my goods keep getting destroyed.
4 When I was appealing in the 2006 eviction I was
5 locked out in violation of the state -- 2005, in
6 November 2005 I was locked out in violation of a state
7 pending appeal. March 2006 the Court of Appeals ruled I
8 never should have been locked out. The landlord took a week
9 to throw out everything in the apartment. Fifteen year --
10 $15,000 worth of stuff I could add up, and the research for
11 the book they knew I was writing. I proved all that. They
12 did it again. October 2006, threw out $4,700 and $75 worth
13 of musical instruments and tools from that what I said is
14 now vacant, was as of Easter, five-plex.
15 Well, part of the situation here, Your Honor, is I
16 have -- I got a check for $4,775 from State Lands because I
17 never cashed the check for a quarter of what they destroyed
18 three and a half years later. I wasn't going to take what's
19 called satisfaction. We know what that means. It's a legal
20 term, but anyhow, I did have that check, and I knew that
21 when I went into custody.
22 So the discovery that I got, Your Honor, if I can
23 just get to that. I was appointed a Metropolitan Public
24 Defender at first appearance, and then on both of these
25 cases. And I had been -- I was represented by Metropolitan

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
136
1 a couple times by Harry Carson. And Harry Carson and I both
2 went to Lewis and Clark College although I never went to law
3 school. Harry's supreme court case, State vs. Gaines, is
4 cited almost every day in this courthouse, and his supreme
5 court case cites my supreme court case, Stull vs. Hoke,
6 which I filed in 1994 originally when I was in prison on a
7 pot bust. It's a legal gray area, what's the filing date
8 for prisoners. And so we now know.
9 And the punch line for me, Your Honor, is that
10 30-day no cause piece I filed was against the statutory
11 prohibition because my rent was paid. ORS 105.120 still
12 says, although it's been renumbered, that the landlord may
13 not bring or file the 30-day no cause when the rent is paid.
14 So it wasn't even legal for the landlord to walk in the
15 courthouse with the paperwork to be in a situation to throw
16 out $20,000 worth of my stuff.
17 So I don't like coming into this courthouse because
18 it feels like it's an alley I get mugged every time I come
19 in here. I can't be a crime victim in this city. I was
20 victimized on the bus on my way to court that morning, but
21 nothing from the district attorney's office on that as me
22 being a crime victim. And then these completely fabricated
23 things that lead to me being in custody on a felony charge
24 that was in no way a felony and could not be proved a
25 felony, and they knew that as of the day that they filled

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
137
1 out the police report.
2 So off the top of my head, Your Honor, the
3 discovery that I got, and while we're here in this format
4 today, Your Honor, is because the discovery that I didn't
5 get that I got subsequently, but it says the same thing and
6 more.
7 Owing to the United States Department of Justice
8 suing the City of Portland, there's a legal mandate that the
9 -- you know, according to the Department of Justice that the
10 Portland police do a use of force incident report, and in
11 filling that out, under injuries, would have injuries,
12 officer, none, subject none. Well, aside from my in-custody
13 injuries, Officer Engstrom said on that date he wasn't
14 injured, and they produced the DA information and subsequent
15 to that had a grand jury on December 10 th , 2015, where
16 Mr. Wood, the security guard when I was getting a lollipop,
17 was claiming I was asking for a ride. And Officer Engstrom
18 testified to the grand jury, and they produced the felony
19 indictment for my having intentionally injured Officer
20 Engstrom.
21 I got that material on January 8 th , which was some
22 -- getting pretty close to a month and a half after my
23 arrest. It was well over a month. It was a month and weeks
24 before I got discovery. And I read that, and I had
25 absolutely no communication with my court appointed

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
138
1 attorney.
2 And when I had communication I would call -- there
3 were two cases. Initially the Emanuel hospital case was
4 assigned to Jane Fox. If I'm getting her name right, Fox.
5 And my first call, where she answered the phone, she said
6 you're hard to get ahold of. And I learned that the sheriff
7 was blocking my telephone calls from my attorney. And then
8 she said you have court tomorrow, and I said yes, I do. And
9 she said well that case is assigned to Kasia Rutledge and I
10 say no, the court documents say it's assigned to you.
11 I don't know what happened the next morning. I
12 didn't go to court. The following day, which was the --
13 that was Wednesday, the 9 th of December, the following day
14 was the 10 th , and they had the grand jury. For the 11 th I
15 went in front of Judge Ed Jones where I got the indictment
16 saying the felony.
17 And then I got a call from Ms. Rutledge on the 5 th
18 of January. And she said that the plea offer was that if I
19 pled guilty to attempting assault of a police officer, since
20 the district attorney assigned -- deputy district attorney
21 assigned to the case realized they couldn't get a felony
22 charge or conviction, if I pled guilty to attempted assault
23 on a police officer, I would get two years bench probation,
24 I would get assigned to Harry Carson, so I could come to the
25 courthouse and plead guilty, and it could be expunged. And

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
139
1 she was going on vacation, see ya. And you have every right
2 to a jury trial -- a trial in 60 days, but she says, she's
3 asking for more time because of her schedule.
4 The -- so my history was I was in custody. The
5 very person that took me from the Portland Police Bureau
6 custody to the Justice Center, the handoff so to speak, the
7 handcuffs off so to speak, agreed to testify about the marks
8 on my hands from the handcuffs. And it's pretty simple,
9 Your Honor, to injure somebody that's in handcuffs by
10 putting the handcuffs on too tight, which is one technique,
11 or even putting the handcuffs on too loose and then pulling
12 the elbows out because then the handcuffs simply ride until
13 they get to a wide point, and once you're pulling the elbows
14 out, that's -- you're -- the backs of your hands turn to be
15 in a link of the chain. And that's what happened to me.
16 When the Portland Police came into the City Hall, I
17 got pushed in the -- I have a fellow telling me that as soon
18 as I get out I'm going to get arrested again. Nobody told
19 me I was under arrest. And when I finally realized that
20 these guys want to have a physical -- these guys want to
21 fight with me. These fellows have come to me, they put
22 their hands on me, they're not having a calm, quite
23 conversation about Mr. Stull. And it turns out, owing to
24 the discovery I got in March, that's because I'm a transient
25 and mentally ill according to the Portland Police.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
140
1 So why do I have four neurologists diagnose me with
2 central pain condition so a Portland Police officer can say
3 I'm a transient, although I'm housed for years, and I'm
4 mentally ill? Well, it's simple. I don't follow the rules,
5 they abuse me physically, and I don't tolerate that, and I
6 don't resist it.
7 The claim here, in their files, is that I kicked
8 Officer Engstrom. And if I kicked Officer Engstrom, Your
9 Honor, it would be like me saying that when I took my
10 bicycle out of my house this morning and I was carrying it
11 down the steps and I accidentally banged the pedal into my
12 shin, that the bicycle kicked me. He was doing a wrist lock
13 that still hurts on my right wrist, and they were dragging
14 me with the handcuffs pulling me apart and certainly not a
15 whole lot of help bearing my body weight as he's doing the
16 wrist lock. And they did that all the way to the police
17 car. And you know and I know that passive resistance is not
18 resisting arrest, and that's how they interpreted that, that
19 I was resisting arrest.
20 And so in the Department of Justice use of force
21 report, which is in the discovery, it says was there EMS on
22 the scene. Now at the time of my arrest there was a fellow
23 that was videotaping me with his camera, and he got
24 arrested. And the police reports state they checked his
25 wrists because he was complaining about his cuffs. The EMS,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
141
1 somehow he didn't -- he was probably a little outraged at
2 the time and might have been a little angry with any kind of
3 person with a uniform at that point, but anyhow, the EMS did
4 some kind of checking according to the police report, but
5 not of me. They put me in the police car that was parked in
6 front of the ambulance.
7 And when I got out of the police car we found out a
8 number of things. One, that I had been abused owing to the
9 handcuff damage. My birth date was given as one that was
10 created by the Portland Police in 2009 along with my aka,
11 Barry Joe Stully, same name with a "Y" no less. And to me
12 that just shows that the Portland Police have created, in
13 their own mind, the guy that they arrested, as the transient
14 who is mentally ill.
15 We're having some social progress, Your Honor, and
16 I sent this document, and I do have a copy here. I do know,
17 from being trained in public speaking, don't hand people
18 documents because then they just start looking at them and
19 reading them. So if there's anything that you need to know,
20 I've got the chapter and verse case numbers dating back to
21 1989.
22 The -- my being on the list is something that could
23 get me killed, if not by having the first responders,
24 including, as I mentioned, Firefighter Sampson, saying I
25 need a knuckle sandwich, including having those kind of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
142
1 incidents, if I go into custody and I can get out of jail
2 free, all I have to do is just say I attempted to hurt a
3 police officer, then I'm going to be the guy that shows up
4 with all these arrests if not convictions.
5 When the young man who was sent to go to the trial,
6 which I mentioned about being arrested at Central Precinct
7 lobby and found not guilty, he told me a month later that he
8 had never even known that I was found not guilty. I walked
9 into Central Precinct, was arrested, went to jail, went to
10 trial, was found not guilty, and the fellow that went to
11 that trial never knew that I was not guilty.
12 So I don't know what Sergeant Holbrook thinks of
13 me. Sergeant Holbrook and myself were both present when
14 Moses Rosen had his arrest up here (inaudible). We know who
15 we are.
16 In the meantime, there was a shooting, fatal to the
17 person who got shot at, and we don't know whether Sergeant
18 Holbrook or the officer with him actually killed the guy
19 because more shots fired than actually struck the person.
20 But as I'm interfacing with Sergeant Holbrook, in his life
21 he actually killed somebody, and I talked to a friend of
22 mine as this has been playing out over the years, and it's
23 like what can I do, like a medic alert bracelet that
24 identifies people that no, I have a neuropathic pain
25 condition, it's neurological condition. But I came out of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
143
1 my home, gym shorts and tee shirt with the exit papers,
2 wearing a hospital wrist bracelet, saying call them. But
3 none of that works.
4 And so when I got the after-incident report in
5 March, and I read that I'm labeled as a person with a mental
6 illness and that I'm labeled as a transient, and you know no
7 injuries once again, yet I'm in on the felony charge of
8 intentionally injuring somebody that wasn't injured.
9 When I got that document, part of it was like,
10 well, this is a long time to wait for discovery. But the
11 other part of it is, well, isn't anybody but me reading this
12 stuff? How can the district attorney -- I use a plural term
13 -- how could the district attorney reduce the felony charge
14 and come back with an information without realizing that the
15 felony charge was a product of false testimony by Officer
16 Engstrom in front of the grand jury? If there were
17 injuries, he could have checked the form. He didn't. He
18 didn't report to the Department of Justice, and similarly
19 the after-incident report also doesn't include that.
20 So I stated here, and I'll state it right now, I
21 feel that I was pressured into taking a plea bargain which
22 was tantamount to a death sentence in many of my colleagues'
23 eyes. I'm not that confident that they're out to kill me.
24 I know that I certainly could have been run down by that
25 fellow speeding and talking on the cell phone. That could

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
144
1 have killed me. We know that people die in custody. That
2 could have killed me.
3 I'm not confident that all these mistakes are a
4 giant scheme. But I will say that in my assessment of
5 Ms. Rutledge as my court appointed attorney, she got off
6 easy. Plead guilty, expungable, get out of jail, it all
7 goes away. No trial, no police reports, no this, that, and
8 the other thing. But no, I'm not going to plead guilty to
9 attempting to assault a police officer when I have the
10 police in their police reports, and I have the police
11 telling my colleagues, that I threatened to kill a police
12 officer. That's in the discovery. Officer Engstrom, who
13 said no injuries, and then went to the grand jury, who
14 produced an intentionally injured felony indictment, no
15 injuries. He says in his police report that I threatened to
16 kill him.
17 So the trick is, get me in custody. Don't give me
18 medical treatment, don't give me access to my attorney,
19 subject me to all of the abuses that I won't even get into
20 that I endured in there. The whole time I have a check for
21 over $4,800, and my bail is 1100, and I can't access it. My
22 friends tell me they tried to put money on my book so I
23 could use the phone. The cards don't work on the computer.
24 I finally got Ladina Maddox (ph) a power of attorney. I
25 mailed it out January 25 th , and she -- her pressing schedule

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
145
1 no doubt, kept the cashier's check for the $1,300; took it
2 to the Multnomah County Sheriff. They wouldn't bail me out.
3 They wouldn't accept my cashier's check for $1,300. Now for
4 me, who cares, because that was the 5 th of February, and my
5 goods were already destroyed on the 4 th of February.
6 But, Your Honor, I had that wallet in my backpack
7 for 30 years, all of my functioning things as a person with
8 a disability. If I wanted to show you the font on this
9 discovery, I could right now, and I could actually read it
10 right now because I could pull out my page magnifier because
11 I had a page magnifier.
12 These folks have been doing this institutionally
13 for years, and they've been doing it to persons like myself
14 with disabilities. So as much as it's obviously an
15 injustice to have me in on a felony charge until my goods
16 are destroyed and give me the notice on my way out, I got
17 that same property receipt as discovery, but it doesn't have
18 the notice on it. The only notice apparently is on my copy
19 which says, in fine print on the backside, this is your only
20 notice, which I received, as I mentioned, on my way out,
21 after my goods were destroyed.
22 So once I make a request as a person with a
23 disability for reasonable accommodation, everything that
24 doesn't do that is retaliation. That's the lens that we
25 view this through.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
146
1 And the enforcement history I had with Harry Carson
2 was that we win. As I sit here, my neck hurts from having
3 the campus safety scour my head on the paving stones in
4 2010, intentionally knowing I was an alum. The college was
5 upset because I testified against them in a land use
6 hearing. Harry Carson and I overcame that attempt to
7 convict me for my alum and his alum attacking me. And the
8 district attorney's office wouldn't prosecute those three
9 fellows that mugged me because they worked for Lewis and
10 Clark College. In spite of Judge Marcus' order for a new
11 trial, which the State said they weren't credible, how they
12 physically abused me.
13 So as I sit here I'm enduring the in-custody abuse
14 I had from 2010, right here my neck still hurts. And I can
15 stand on my head with a no-hand head stand. So it's not
16 about that. It's -- I cannot overcome these unending
17 assaults on my civil rights.
18 So when I walked into the Office of Neighborhood
19 Involvement that was "the" civil rights violation because
20 they announced to us that we have say Judge Jones federal
21 court on -- it was early. It was Smith vs. Safeway or
22 something early on the ADA, and it had to do with a truck
23 driver and alcoholic, but the point is, is that the
24 reasonable accommodation is an interactive process, and the
25 Oregon State Statute and particularly the Oregon

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
147
1 Administrative Rule pretty much follow the ADA and some
2 other legislation, it's a little broader.
3 But the ADA -- a person with a disability, it
4 triggers the reasonable accommodation request when the
5 person knows that the person has the disability. And that
6 can be by me saying that I have a disability. It could be
7 by Mr. Behre saying, or it could be by your observation, so
8 -- or any of the other parties' observation.
9 So when I went in to the Office of Neighborhood
10 Involvement, there should have been more of a “what's going
11 on here.” Just like when I went into the district
12 attorney's office yesterday, with the court order from Judge
13 Marshall that appoints me pro se, they should have allowed
14 me to open up my brief here and to take out the file and
15 say, see, I am representing myself, and yet you can't give
16 me discovery? And he already sent me the email. That
17 doesn't happen. Instead they call security.
18 So then it's the following morning when they chose
19 to enforce their -- now everybody knows, but at the time I
20 knew, unconstitutional city hall exclusion policy. When
21 that happened I said call 911 because it was as much as a
22 sickening event as having the interference I experienced
23 when I called from my home when the police wouldn't give me
24 police report information over the telephone. I don't like
25 the resistance. I have a disability. It hampers me, it

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
148
1 triggers me, and I feel like I'm set up.
2 I would not have gone to the district attorney's
3 office yesterday for discovery had I not received the email
4 saying my discovery was there, and actually I couldn't go
5 there today because I forgot my ID. I should have that with
6 me. I have my Honored Citizen ID, and everybody seems to
7 know me, so that's helpful. But my disability sent me out
8 the door without any money and without my ID and without my
9 SNAP benefits card, so I'm not going up here after we get
10 out of court today if I don't go to jail, which could happen
11 when I come in this building. I don't have my food stamp
12 card simply because I have this disability that I didn't
13 remember everything.
14 So, Your Honor, I've been talking for quite some
15 time. And the -- I'll just wrap up with the chronology.
16 I was arrested, wasn't given medical treatment,
17 wasn't given an attorney contact. I got my most important
18 attorney contact from Ms. Rutledge when she had a
19 conversation, when she called me, after telling me that when
20 I called her that they weren't allowing my calls in. But
21 she did call me on January 5 th , and the call from her was
22 right before she went on vacation. She said take the plea
23 offer. I said no, I'm not guilty.
24 She sent me in discovery, I read the discovery. It
25 was like, what do you mean, nobody noticed this? And it

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
149
1 says here no injuries, it says here intentionally injured?
2 Nobody noticed this?
3 And I lost faith with the Metropolitan Public
4 Defenders. I just was not getting any -- I'd been in for a
5 really long time, so I requested a motion to substitute
6 attorney. Went in front of Judge Jones, Ed Jones he goes
7 by. And I told him I couldn't appear before him because he
8 was the one that sat in on -- the case was before him on the
9 destruction of my $20,000 worth of goods, and he was the one
10 that said it was okay for the landlord to not pay me for
11 three and a half years, and then cut me a check for a
12 quarter of what was destroyed, all while I had the landlord
13 on contempt of court charges.
14 And judge -- presiding judge then, presiding Judge
15 Koch issued the contempt of court charges, and I had a
16 hearing, brought in all the police and sheriffs, and I
17 remember the date, July 13, 2007. At that hearing the
18 landlord executive director's attorney said that he had
19 warned her to be prepared to be arrested for the destruction
20 of my goods. No, I'm the one that got arrested, and I'm
21 still getting arrested. And I'm trying to stop that. And
22 what happens with me is I feel that these so overworked,
23 they have a hundred cases each. They can't possibly -- they
24 try to call me, and the corrections deputy on duty, whoever
25 that might have been, says he can't take his call. They

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
150
1 have a hundred other clients that will have their call, and
2 they're going to do that.
3 And so I just got bumped. And so the issues I'm
4 facing today as a person with a disability is I went to my
5 neurologist, and 15 months on the wait list, as urgent
6 status later. I got to see my neurologist in June of 2015.
7 And I feel, and it sickens me, that because of this approach
8 by the district attorney's office, where I'm on a one-way
9 street where I can't be a crime victim, but I can be
10 prosecuted for nothing, that I don't have my property that I
11 had. It took me 15 months to get on a waiting list, just
12 like the other person that had to wait for me, and I don't
13 want to have to bring in a doctor when it's simple to look
14 at the paperwork and see the police officer is lying.
15 I don't have to work with the police. I do work
16 with the police. I do stuff like Sunday Parkways, and they
17 compliment me because I'm excellent at crowd control.
18 So it's clear that the Portland Police lie. It's
19 clear to me that the Portland Police abused me in custody.
20 And it's clear to me that the Portland Police violated the
21 breach of -- they breached the settlement agreement with the
22 United States Department of Justice. They did that when I
23 was arrested, when the City had an unconstitutional trespass
24 policy, when I was on the agenda for the partnership
25 agreement that they're not doing with the street musician or

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
151
1 street -- Sidewalk Management Ordnance which they're
2 enforcing, and they know is in violation of the City
3 charter.
4 And I can't make my career out of being the only
5 one that has the guts to say this stinks.
6 The five-plex is vacant. I saw people from the MAX
7 sleeping in the doorway. It's named after Gretchen Kafoury
8 who also signed the partnership agreement. I'm passionate
9 about this, Your Honor. We have an average of one person a
10 week die as a homeless person. I'm passionate about a
11 non-profit, affordable housing landlord being absolutely so
12 corrupt that I'm willing to go to City Hall, as I mentioned,
13 and say in front of the chief of police, this is organized
14 crime. And I don't know what this is.
15 But getting back to my chronology, I went in front
16 of Judge Ed Jones. I couldn't get a fair hearing in front
17 of him. I went in front of Judge Hodson. I couldn't get a
18 fair hearing out of him. He's on appeal since 2012. I went
19 in front of Judge Marshall. As of my letter of January 5 th ,
20 the State knew that they couldn't get a felony conviction.
21 February 9 th they dismissed that. I don't know why it took
22 them so long. And I got out to find out my property was
23 destroyed.
24 At the time I agreed to represent myself, Mr. Behre
25 was appointed to help me with discovery because I have here

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
152
1 in my file, Your Honor, the medical records from Emanuel
2 Hospital, from when I had my 175 beats a minute. And in my
3 2012 case those were deemed as inadmissible as evidence
4 because I don't know how I could have possibly done that,
5 and that's why I have Mr. Behre in this process.
6 And so the way I see this, Your Honor, is I needed
7 to have a chance for the State to hear what the sequence of
8 events. We have the time points. We know the 911 calls on
9 the 17th. The fellow that got in the ambulance and later --
10 it might have been at Hazelnut Grove, we know the 911 call,
11 and prior to that the non-emergency calls to the Portland
12 Police to try and find out what happened on the 17 th . We
13 know that I went by ambulance to Emanuel Hospital. We know
14 the Portland Fire Bureau responded. We know the Portland
15 Police responded. We know that AMR responded. We know that
16 I got treated by the same doctor that treated me a couple
17 days earlier. I never saw him. I was unconscious.
18 And we know that a couple of Emanuel Hospital
19 security guards arrested me. We know a couple of Portland
20 Police officers came at Emanuel Hospital. We know that I
21 got out of jail at 3:00 in the morning. And we know that on
22 my way to court on Tuesday, which I had to do, I had the 911
23 calls about by incident in the street with the fellow with
24 the cell phone almost ran me down. We know I was a crime
25 victim on the bus. We know my entrance into the Justice

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
153
1 Center Jail.
2 We probably know my visit to the Federal
3 Courthouse. We definitely know that I went to the Office of
4 Neighborhood Involvement. We know that I went to Jasmine
5 Campbell and got a lollipop at her office, and we know the
6 next morning when I came in, I was arrested, and we know
7 that Stully aka, birth date was given as mine by the
8 Portland Police when I went in. I had to have fingerprints
9 taken on November 25 th because my birth date provided by the
10 Portland Police didn't match my -- didn't match me.
11 I have a note, and I'm going to share it here, Your
12 Honor. He wants to know if I'm asking for this case to be
13 dismissed for the interest of justice. And --
14 THE COURT: The reason he's asking that is there
15 are some -- there are limited legal grounds on which the
16 Court can grant a dismissal pretrial. That is one of them.
17 MR. STULL: Yeah, yeah, right.
18 THE COURT: And that's why he's asking. That's why
19 he put that note in front of you, because --
21 THE COURT: -- some of the stuff that you're
22 saying, very interesting --
23 MR. STULL: Yeah.
24 THE COURT: -- may not provide me a legal basis for
25 dismissal.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
154
1 MR. STULL: Right.
2 THE COURT: What he's put in front of you is the
3 legal grounds that would justify a dismissal under the law.
4 MR. STULL: Well --
5 THE COURT: So that's why he put that note in front
6 of you.
7 MR. STULL: Right. So --
8 THE COURT: Which is, I think, what I understand
9 that's what you're asking.
10 MR. STULL: It wouldn't be fair for me to say
11 that's not what I'm asking. What I'm trying to impress on
12 the Court is -- when we get back to the big bang theory of
13 this case --
14 THE COURT: Well, let me summarize what I got.
15 What I understand that you're trying to get me to understand
16 is there's a bigger problem here. And I got that.
17 MR. STULL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18 THE COURT: I got that. There's a bigger problem
19 here. Now whether I can do anything about it is a whole
20 another question. But I understand that what you're
21 describing for me is what you perceive to be a bigger
22 problem than just this case, these two cases.
23 MR. STULL: Yes.
24 THE COURT: And I got that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
155
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. STULL: The big bang theory of why this case,
3 these cases, needs to be dismissed, in the interest of
4 justice for any reason, is that, and I can say this best by
5 the security guard responded yesterday and told me this in
6 one of our previous -- the phone rings and they respond.
7 (Inaudible). He said that when folks are calling like they
8 did yesterday at the discovery office, they're calling the
9 fellows with guns to respond because they want some help.
10 They're just asking for help. And then he caught himself
11 when he was telling me this, and he says and that's just
12 what you were doing.
13 When I went to the Office of Neighborhood
14 Involvement, I asked for a Multnomah County Health
15 Department ride home. I knew that my situation had been
16 triggered. And after years I still can't plumb the depths
17 of -- like I mentioned this morning, when the officer,
18 sergeant, pushed me, prior to, I guess, my first contact
19 with a police officer was a shove in the chest, I don't
20 recall that. And I could recite pi to 32 decimal places,
21 and I can, you know, remember case law and the kind of
22 things that I've done here this morning, remember the dates
23 and stuff like that. And so one of my -- you have a
24 speedometer, you have a needle on your gas tank or something
25 or other, you have a way on your electric meter that tells

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
156
1 you stuff is going on. There's a way to -- we have the
2 clock. It's showing us that there's things going on. And
3 part of my feedback is to actually get feedback, you know,
4 to have some way of knowing whether I misspoke or how I
5 acted.
6 But my situation at City Hall that day was -- the
7 jail door that I was placed in on November 25 th ; I was there
8 overnight into Thanksgiving. And I can give you an example
9 of feedback. The corrections deputy who escorted me to my
10 cell, his name is Willoughby, W-i-l-l-o-u-g-h-b-y. I
11 couldn't read his name tag because my eyes were blurred as
12 part of my neurological condition. So that's one of the
13 things that tells me where I was.
14 Now one of the things that tells me where they were
15 is I was given Gatorade, and I was given Gatorade in the
16 isolation cell because I said I could die from this because
17 it depletes potassium because of over-firing of the nerves.
18 And so they gave me Gatorade. And that was on -- I don't
19 know if you qualify that as the first 24 hours I was in
20 custody. But then that was it for medical treatment.
21 I stood on my head. When I finally got to a place
22 where I could walk the stairs, I walked up the stairs and
23 down the stairs, and that was 14 steps counting the landing,
24 and I did 80 flights of stairs. And then I did 40 more
25 flights of stairs, two steps at a time. And I did that to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
157
1 vent this adrenaline that's a product of the fight or
2 flight. And once the pain relay has been rewired and it's
3 hit with adrenaline, it fires like it has epilepsy.
4 According to my neurologist's testimony, which I
5 sent to the State, it's from 2004, and Dr. Grimm became
6 famous with Jennings vs. Baxter Healthcare. It's an Oregon
7 Supreme Court case about the Oregon Evidence Code regarding
8 scientific expert witness testimony. And the place I point
9 to that is right here, I have it in my letter to Sergeant
10 Johnson. Dr. Grimm has advanced degrees in neurology and
11 neurophysiology. And neurology is kind of when I go to my
12 neurologist like I did in June. He's a doctor that does
13 that. But neurophysiology is actually what's going on.
14 Dr. Grimm -- I had my back issue. In 1980 a young
15 chiropractor, (inaudible) Cantor (ph), referred me to
16 Dr. Grimm, and Dr. Grimm did the analysis, the myelogram,
17 one of the painful examinations. And I had my back surgery.
18 Dr. Grimm isn't a surgeon, wasn't a surgeon, he's passed
19 away.
20 But Dr. Grimm diagnosed my condition as being this
21 central pain, which is a product of time. And with my
22 condition being progressive, Your Honor, that's one of the
23 things I'm going to say about what my metrics, the things I
24 have. With the passage of time my condition is worsening.
25 My best treatment option is cannabis. We live in a medical

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
158
1 marijuana state. When I saw my neurologist in June, 2015,
2 he said you don't need any more expensive tests for a
3 condition you've had for 30 years. He said among your
4 treatment options, he told me medical marijuana is
5 reasonable.
6 I said can you sign for me under the medical
7 marijuana program. He says no because I'm not your
8 attending physician as the law requires. That's true,
9 actually. If I have another doctor that's my primary,
10 that's what the case says. And I made an appointment, and I
11 went and saw that doctor, and he says we don't do that in
12 this office.
13 And by the time I had that fellow that referred me
14 out to the neurologist who said that they won't prescribe
15 medical marijuana, it's not prescription, it's
16 authorization. But anyhow, recreational marijuana had
17 already turned legal, so when I went into custody I wasn't
18 coming in with a prescription for a drug, and they didn't
19 give me one. And they just didn't give me any treatment.
20 And ultimately, grievance later and grievance later, on
21 January 25 th I went and saw the doctor there. And they said
22 that we don't prescribe even the FDA approved THC which you
23 can buy at the Safeway up the street here.
24 And so I didn't get medical treatment while I was
25 in custody, and so not getting medical treatment kind of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
159
1 took some of the wind out of my sails for beating my head
2 against Metropolitan and having not gotten my attorney
3 contact.
4 As you see, Your Honor, we spent a considerable
5 amount of time. And there is no Multnomah County Health
6 Department doctor nor is there any Metropolitan Public
7 Defender attorney that would take the time to even listen to
8 this stuff, let alone look beyond it with any type of
9 analysis.
10 And so how I would like to present this ongoing
11 thing is I feel as the national crime victim's week folks, I
12 feel as the crime victim that I was on Tuesday, I should not
13 have been given the exclusion, that some inquiry should have
14 been made into the Multnomah County Health Department
15 medical transport. I can't find it looking it up on the
16 internet, Your Honor. I don't know where they're hiding it,
17 but I do know from my notes that I wrote down what was on
18 the side of the car that was talking to my neighbor.
19 So anyhow, the first thing that we need to address
20 as a society is the provisions that are utterly unenforced.
21 And ORS 659A, we have disability discrimination laws. They
22 apply in -- across the board in rental housing. They apply
23 in public accommodation. They apply in government agencies.
24 And one of the places of two that I have trespass exclusions
25 outside of this is Bureau of Labor and Industry Civil Rights

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
160
1 Division, when I was found not guilty at trial in front of
2 Judge Immergut for trespass, and again, at Lewis and Clark
3 college.
4 And I feel (inaudible) maintains the trespass
5 exclusion, what am I supposed to do, go over there and get
6 arrested so I can have a trial and say, hey, according to
7 State vs. Koenig you can't even do this. We've already
8 decided the law. They're not following it.
9 And I'm remembering the Deputy District Attorney
10 Moraro (ph) from 2012 said that when I referred her out to
11 ORS Chapter 659A and ORS -- Oregon Administrative Rule
12 Chapter 839, she says that's employment discrimination law.
13 But if you go to Division 6, and you go to like 839-006-235
14 or somewhere in there off the top of my head, then you get
15 into the disability discrimination by state government that
16 is actually the interpretation and the enforcement of the
17 provisions and the statute 659A.
18 But we're supposed to have a policy that, and it's
19 stated in 659A in a couple places, I think it's 003 and 009.
20 But we have a stated public policy that we're not going to
21 let any of this stuff happen, and it all does, and it all
22 did to me.
23 So just to wrap up, I called yesterday to
24 Metropolitan. I put in my document that when I had my visit
25 to court as I'm having now with Mr. Behre, I said why did I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
161
1 not get discovery until January, why didn't somebody
2 discover it? She says we sent you that in November. And I
3 called yesterday, and I called Mr. Behre's assistant, Kate,
4 off the top of my head. She answered the phone Kate. Of
5 course, I've got her name written down. And I said do you
6 have mail records, and how does that happen at your firm.
7 And they said -- I'll just say it's global. So if anybody
8 sent me anything, it would be in my file as me.
9 And so the first mail that went out to me was
10 mailed on January 6. The Emanuel Hospital discovery, I got
11 that in February. The 60 days was up the 25 th of January
12 for, you know, when I think about it, in custody, a person
13 in custody, having a speedy trial. But of course I
14 mentioned that one of the provisions to get an extension is
15 the attorney's schedule. I just think that part of that
16 discussion should be have you discussed this case with your
17 client before you go on vacation, and when did you schedule
18 your vacation.
19 It seemed like a good time to get out of Dodge to
20 me. If you wanted to like -- I think they tried to pull a
21 fast one. They said look, we'll give Barry Joe a get out of
22 jail, no jail time, we don't have to have any of this stuff,
23 we don't have to bring Charley Hales into court as the mayor
24 to say that yes, this is his signature on the 1994
25 partnership agreement. We don't need to bring in Deputy

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
162
1 Auditor Mia Rent (ph) to say that she couldn't find that .
2 We don't need to bring in the fellow from the archives to
3 say that they can't find that 1994 document that's, like I
4 said, referenced an exception in the Sidewalk Management
5 Ordnance. So if Mr. Behre wants to be a street performer
6 and be excepted from the Sidewalk Management Ordnance,
7 Mr. Behre can't find that 1994 agreement because the City
8 won't give it up. I have it. I got it from the City.
9 They're promulgating a 2006 document that
10 Commissioner Amanda Fritz signed that says click through
11 here for the original 1994 document, and no it's not. It's
12 the 2006 document that doesn't mention the free music zone.
13 So I'm not, you know, I see this stuff as the same
14 government, racist police corruption that I've been enduring
15 since I put that on my voter pamphlet page.
16 So the Motion to Dismiss was an oral motion to
17 dismiss because I'm too sick, and when I got this stuff in
18 March that says that the police are identifying me as a
19 transient, now I'm a hairy guy. I was in a movie up here
20 with Hayden Panettiere when she was still a kid. I don't
21 know, it was 2004 or something like that, and I was paid to
22 look like this as an extra.
23 So we have a homeless epidemic of homeless people,
24 and it's easy enough to go down the line and say you're one
25 and you're one and you're one and you're one and you're one,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
163
1 and I'm not. If I ever was, it was a product by -- from
2 this circuit accepting a case that wasn't legal to file in
3 the Court, the destruction of my goods, and the landlord
4 intentionally wants to keep perfectly viable housing vacant.
5 So I have some paperwork for my legal adviser here,
6 Your Honor. Can I just allow him to speak on my behalf?
7 THE COURT: Yeah.
8 Mr. Behre, if you want to, if there's anything you
9 want to say, go for it.
10 MR. BEHRE: And I don't know if this is timely,
11 Your Honor. I just wanted to share with my advisee. This
12 is a memorandum completed by Ms. Rutledge in January
13 regarding the constitutionality of the exclusion, the code
14 that they used to exclude Mr. Stull on the 24 th of November
15 and to the extent that that was the basis to exclude him on
16 the 25 th . This specifically, Portland City Code 3.15.020B,
17 was declared unconstitutional by the district court, the
18 federal district court, on December 31 st , 2015, in a case
19 called Walsh vs. Enge, E-n-g-e. You've got to --
20 MR. STULL: Oh, excuse me, Your Honor, and to
21 assist the deputy district attorney here. My pages here
22 include footnote 23. I didn't number the pages. The
23 footnotes fortunately, they are in chronological order, in
24 sequential order. So footnote 23 is the case cite of that.
25 It's got that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
164
1 And part of me, the honest part of me wants to say
2 that, so, did they know that it was unconstitutional aside
3 from me telling them that? I don't know; it was. And I
4 read the -- I want to say Olson (ph) case. It's about the
5 appropriate use of force, dealing with excessive force. And
6 even if it's an illegal arrest, you're still not allowed to
7 resist it. So I'm aware of that.
8 And I don't want to parse that out, Your Honor,
9 because then I would defer to nobody told me I was arrested
10 that I recall. And people could have got hurt real bad,
11 Your Honor, in that room with those folks responding the way
12 they did. I did not have any conversation with my medical
13 or mental health folks. They said they called -- in the
14 police report they said something about calling Project
15 Respond or something to that effect. Well, that never
16 happened because I was -- had the scuffle, we'll call it.
17 And -- oh, Your Honor, I might show you how history
18 repeats itself. There was an action up in front of City
19 Hall, no secret there. And in July, I'm thinking it was
20 around the 11 th , there was a fellow and a gal, and a long
21 story short, a fellow stepped in on it and was chest bumping
22 on me. And I said, you know, don't do that, and he did it
23 again, and I just said you're under arrest for harassment.
24 And then I was mobbed, and there were maybe six or eight
25 people came and just kind of, you know. And in the process

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
165
1 somebody bent my thumb. And the Portland Police and Fire
2 Bureau came out, and they monitored my pulse, and I think --
3 and this was after this 175 beat a minute episode. And I
4 think my pulse was something to the order of 125 beats a
5 minute. And then the paramedics stayed on the scene, iced
6 my thumb, and I talked myself down from the adrenaline
7 surge. And they left when it was 80 beats a minute.
8 And then similar to this experience, I went to
9 Central Precinct to follow up on that, and waited for an
10 officer to come out regarding the police report or whatever
11 the issue was, and after an hour I called, and they told me
12 that Sergeant Nea (ph) had canceled my dispatch. And I said
13 can I talk to the supervisor, and they said yes. And they
14 said yeah, we'll send somebody out. And then I saw Sergeant
15 Nea through the glass, and I said what's going on. And he
16 told me to the effect that he would never allow a police
17 report to be taken when I'm the victim.
18 And that sickened me enough that I went -- the
19 shock of that, it's absurd. I'm sitting out there for over
20 an hour waiting for something that he knows is canceled. I
21 mean, it's bad enough. So anyhow, that got me to Emanuel
22 Hospital where Dr. Cook, who knew about my condition, said,
23 Mr. Stull, I have some questions, I have to take care of
24 something else. Another doctor who also knew about my
25 condition but not to the depth of Mr. Cook, or Dr. Cook,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
166
1 said what happened to your thumb, it has to be X-rayed. I
2 was X-rayed. They're digital now; it's instant. And they
3 came back into the doctor and said you're clear to go. Your
4 thumb, your X-ray is clear, and you're cleared to go. And I
5 said the other doctor wasn't finished. And security says
6 well we already called the Portland Police. You've been
7 discharged. We've already called the police on you because
8 the trespass exclusion. It's that serious for me with them.
9 I don't know why.
10 Police Officer Davenport of the Portland Police
11 gave me a ride to OHSU where I had already been, as I
12 mentioned, because I got sickened by that shoving on the bus
13 and the charges -- or the shoving on the MAX and the
14 charges. So I had already been there, but the fellow on
15 emergency room duty said I don't know anything about
16 neurology, I don't see a thing wrong with you. And I said I
17 know what's wrong with me, and I need a second opinion which
18 was the security guards and the over-tight handcuffs and the
19 two-hour trip to get me to the Justice Center Jail where I
20 was left out without my shoes, without my ID, without my
21 prepaid transit, without my food stamp card, and without my
22 bag I have here.
23 They gave me a Portland Property Warehouse receipt.
24 So that was Saturday. Monday I went to get my stuff; it
25 wasn't there. The whole time it was in OHSU in the lost and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
167
1 found. But I didn't know that.
2 That Monday night I was sickened. My friend,
3 cofounder of Voodoo Donuts, Tres Shannon, called 911. They
4 took me to Emanuel Hospital. I got up there, the police
5 were called, and they took me out in handcuffs before I even
6 saw the doctor. That was my first arrest on the 17 th . I got
7 out of jail.
8 I went to Tualatin Valley Hospital because no
9 hospital here in the city was going to accept me. Got out
10 of there, came over to City Hall. Troy Thompson (ph) I had
11 the restraining order against was violating the restraining
12 order. I called 911. The cops came out, arrested me, and
13 let him go, and he had a warrant for his arrest. That was
14 my second arrest on the 17 th .
15 The first arrest on the 19 th was at the Health
16 Department where I got off the elevator on the eighth floor
17 instead of my appointment on the fifth floor, got arrested
18 by Officer Stigameyer (ph) who gave me the Stully aka and
19 the birth date, right? And that was my first arrest on the
20 19 th .
21 And as I mentioned, the second arrest on the 19 th
22 was Sergeant Holbrook, we've got your ride here, Mr. Stull.
23 The jail door is bent in the frame, Your Honor,
24 because on July 19 th , my second arrest that day, I was trying
25 to get into the ambulance, trying to get emergency medical

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
168
1 treatment, and I got put in a little steel box with no
2 medical treatment, and pretty much of a hard time. And I
3 had my in-custody hearing on that, and they said I turned my
4 clothing into, quote, clubs of steel, Your Honor, unquote.
5 That was my jeans and one sock, my tee shirt and another
6 sock, the door is bent in the frame, and the inside of the
7 door looks like it got run over by a truck because my tee
8 shirt and my sock was a ball-peen hammer, and my jeans and
9 the other sock was a sledge hammer, and we laugh at that as
10 the miracle of the cotton because cotton absorbs the water
11 even from your toilet.
12 When you're me and you get arrested, the first
13 thing you do is clean your toilet because they're going to
14 shut the water off as soon as I flood the tier, and I will
15 flood the tier, and that means I just flush the toilet.
16 When I was in custody over here, I set a new record. I
17 flushed the toilet a thousand -- I mean a thousand gallons
18 of water over a hundred times because the gal next to me was
19 being denied food and water. And I got attention. They
20 turned her water on. I stuck my foot in the toilet, and I
21 just flushed that handle until somebody gave that gal next
22 to me water, and they did.
23 So I'm a holy terror. I'm not the guy you want to
24 trigger and place in these things. I break the police cars.
25 When I was on the agenda August 29, 2012, I came across a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
169
1 925, they came out with a trespass exclusion August 28 th , the
2 day before they issued that exclusion. And they arrested
3 me, drove me down around the building. I said can you
4 please turn down your car stereo, it's making me sick. He
5 got out and turned it up and started laughing at me with the
6 chief of police. By the time he got that police car from
7 the top of the ramp to the bottom of the ramp and got me out
8 of jail, the headliner was torn down, Your Honor, and I was
9 in handcuffs behind my back. I did that with my feet.
10 I don't know what's going to stop me trying to save
11 my life, and I don't know what's going to stop them trying
12 -- I don't want to say trying. I wish they were trying. If
13 they were trying, they could stop. They're not trying.
14 When the folks came out, and instead of just simply
15 letting me get in the ambulance and taking me to the
16 emergency room, they end up with the first responders. What
17 are they going to do, shoot me in the trailer court? That
18 doesn't stop bullets. I mean it's absurd to think that our
19 society has evolved to this.
20 But getting to where I can take this with you, Your
21 Honor, I didn't have any in-custody conversation with an
22 attorney that I could simply say according to discovery what
23 Officer Engstrom subsequently claimed to the grand jury was
24 not what he claimed on the day of the event, and we can
25 start the conversation with my court appointed attorney with

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
170
1 that fact.
2 And I don't know where I could -- how I could go
3 any more with this. What I wanted to do today was to let
4 the State know that we're either having this hearing, and
5 we're going to stop this, or we're going to have a trial,
6 and we're going to start this. And if we're going to start
7 this, Your Honor, that means we have to get the emergency
8 room doctor who saves peoples' lives out of Emanuel Hospital
9 where he treated me on two occasions in November. And we're
10 going to have to bring him into this building. And he's
11 going to have to wait in line like I did around the corner
12 to get in here so he can say what we all know, the cops lie,
13 the cops hurt people, and the cops kill people. I'm willing
14 to say that. I've been saying that for decades. We're all
15 seeing it's kind of obvious.
16 I sent this out to the DOJ on the 6 th of December,
17 and I really don't know what the status is. My conversation
18 with the Department of Justice told me they get 400 civil
19 right complaints a week. I don't know how they possibly
20 keep up, and they don't.
21 And so I don't know how the State could proceed.
22 My evidence I had at the time was destroyed while I was in
23 custody. The district attorney works for the County. I'm
24 sure your staff here works for the State, Your Honor, but
25 the county is the district attorney and the jail who didn't

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
171
1 give me my Portland Police Property Warehouse receipt.
2 The Portland Police themselves are bringing this
3 case. They're the ones who didn't give me my Portland
4 Police Property Warehouse receipt. And I'm supposed to
5 defend myself without the evidence that I had at the time I
6 had -- when I talked to Mr. van Orden at the -- in front of
7 City Hall, and I got his business card, I wrote on it when I
8 got it. But I had that in my file which we can see as part
9 of the arrest. And as part of the arrest I'm going through
10 my folder like this. And at one point, I don't know whether
11 it was the first two minutes, I said to the guy in front of
12 me, can you help me, I'm confused.
13 So unless my adviser has anything more to say, Your
14 Honor --
15 MR. BEHRE: No.
16 MR. STULL: -- all I can do is give you all a copy
17 of my document that I submitted to Internal Affairs Sergeant
18 Johnson which has case numbers --
19 THE COURT: No, if you've got --
20 MR. STULL: I want to put that into the --
21 THE COURT: If you've got papers that you want to
22 submit, then you can submit them.
23 MR. STULL: And the other -- the only thing, Your
24 Honor, I wish, and it's a pretty strong wish. I wish you
25 didn't have to do this. And the pressure, and I would say

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
172
1 the only pressure, that as a person who did 76 days in jail
2 without medical treatment not so long ago, the only pressure
3 I have on this is the Portland Police and the Multnomah
4 County Sheriff's office don't really like my subpoenas very
5 much. They have a court coordinator as in the statute.
6 And the -- we go by, bizarrely enough, we go by the
7 Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure on the issuance of --
8 subpoenaing police officers, but the point is, is they have
9 I think a ten calendar day or ten business days in advance.
10 And in July of 2013, when I, as I mentioned, I had the
11 hearing on the contempt of court for the landlord's
12 destruction of my goods previous to that, I had to get a
13 lieutenant at the Multnomah County's Sheriff's office come
14 from the river because the court coordinator at 122 nd and
15 Gleason wouldn't accept my subpoenas.
16 And I don't know what river that lieutenant had to
17 come from -- the Lamb River (ph) is not very close to 122 nd
18 and Gleason, the Columbia River, the Sandy River, none of
19 those rivers are close. But I had to wait because when I
20 got there the court coordinator wouldn't accept the
21 subpoenas. And he did and they did, and that's actually the
22 way it's supposed to work, how you're supposed to do it.
23 In 2012 when I subpoenaed the Portland Police, same
24 story except the court coordinator came in early and left
25 early because it was a holiday weekend. So when I went in

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
173
1 on time, my time wasn't within their time because they had
2 left, and they also didn't have a lieutenant to accept the
3 subpoenas and they should have.
4 So I have that document. The case numbers for
5 these cases are on the bottom. I also wanted to say that
6 this was my first and best attempt to get this before the
7 Court. And if these documents don't speak for themselves
8 and if -- I guess what I'm trying to say is, if the interest
9 of justice -- if this interest of justice statute -- can I
10 read this (inaudible)? ORS --
11 THE COURT: The statute?
12 MR. STULL: Yes, it's Oregon Revised Statute 135,
13 Chapter 135.755. Now, one of the things that's still
14 echoing through the system on my Stull vs. Hoke case is part
15 of the interpretation of the statute that kind of got
16 expanded on in Gaines, but it's your role, Your Honor, as
17 the Court, to correctly interpret the statute once it's
18 presented to the Court. And if what has been presented
19 today, including with my document, you haven't read yet, and
20 I supposed you will read it at some point, if I put it into
21 the record.
22 If that does it, that's fine with me. But I wasn't
23 coming in with that in mind as much as I knew that the
24 concept existed. I'm coming in here as a person with a
25 disability who is subject to an illegal exclusion and then

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
174
1 as a response of that, arrest, and that, especially, that
2 triggering what happened with the Portland Police which
3 should have been affected with as I came out of the library
4 when I got socked in the head, I just ride to the hospital
5 and they check me out, and everything is okay. So I got an
6 arrest instead of medical treatment, and it was, in fact,
7 emergency medical treatment that we can see and as I
8 mentioned the first two minutes of whatever they posted
9 about the address, which I assume dovetails with what's on
10 the USB drive that the State has as evidence. Is that
11 right? Do we know that?
12 MR. BEHRE: I've only seen the video from the
13 actual City Hall. I can't (inaudible).
14 MR. STULL: I have -- I was there. I haven't
15 watched it. None of it's good for -- I don't need to see
16 any of that. I'd like to watch it like later, you know,
17 because there's nothing, you know, I would like to have, and
18 I should have, I would like to have that picture --
19 THE COURT: Let me make a suggestion just in the
20 interest of being efficient with our time?
22 THE COURT: You've got your document that you want
23 to submit, let’s mark it as Defense Exhibit 101, and we'll
24 receive it for purposes of this hearing.
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
175
1 (The document referred to as
2 Defense Exhibit 101 was marked
3 for identification and received
4 into evidence.)
5 MR. STULL: Okay.
6 THE COURT: We'll take a ten-minute recess while I
7 read it, and then we'll all come back, and if I have any
8 further questions, I'll ask.
9 MR. STULL: All right. Thank you.
10 THE COURT: Does that make sense?
11 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. I just wanted
12 to say that I'm not in a hurry. I know that we're using a
13 lot of time on this. I'm trying to save a lot of time and
14 expenses later --
15 THE COURT: I understand.
16 MR. STULL: -- ultimately. Okay. Thank you.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Get that copy, and if the DA's
18 office has a copy of that?
19 MR. MAZOROL: Yes, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 THE CLERK: Is it okay if I put a staple on it?
22 THE COURT: Yeah.
23 MR. STULL: Oh, yeah, please do, because the pages
24 aren't numbered.
25 THE COURT: That would help.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
176
1 MR. STULL: Oh, and there's one typo on the very
2 last page.
4 MR. STULL: It mentions me getting out in November,
5 and it was actually supposed to say February. Just the rest
6 aren't that (inaudible), Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: We'll take about a ten-minute recess.
8 (Court in recess at 10:59 a.m.)
9 THE COURT: You may be seated. We're back on the
10 record. And we'll hear from the State. Mr. Mazorol?
11 MR. MAZOROL: Thank you, Your Honor.
12 The State's position is not an appropriate case for
13 dismissal in the interest of justice. Just to back up, this
14 was -- Mr. Stull indicated he wanted to file a motion to
15 dismiss back in -- on March 4 th . Judge Wittmayer had told
16 Mr. Stull --
17 THE COURT: I think part of his point was to make
18 sure the district attorney's office had a full understanding
19 of the circumstances from his perspective, and to give you
20 the opportunity to assess whether this really was a wise use
21 of resources in pursuing this type of claim. I think that
22 was part of his point, in addition to asking the Court to
23 dismiss the case in the interest of justice and in part,
24 justice being the circumstances as laid out in Exhibit 101,
25 his letter and his oral presentation this morning, and the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
177
1 disability discrimination statutes that set forth the public
2 policy of the State of Oregon.
3 As I understand, that was all wrapped -- sort of
4 wrapped up in not only what's in the interest of justice but
5 for your office, to determine whether you want to proceed
6 with this -- these charges at this time. So I think that
7 was the point of his motion. So maybe you can address those
8 issues.
9 MR. MAZOROL: Yes, Your Honor. And I just think
10 the fact that Judge Wittmayer had told Mr. Stull that if he
11 wanted to file a motion, it would have to be written, and
12 that was never done. So the State did not have --
13 THE COURT: I think we're past that point now.
14 MR. MAZOROL: Yes, Your Honor. I do note that
15 everything that Mr. Stull said was not under oath, and so I
16 would submit that was just simply argument and it's not
17 evidence.
18 I do understand -- I understand we received Exhibit
19 101; the State did not object to that. Everything Mr. Stull
20 has said was not under oath. With regard to the dismissal
21 interest of justice, there are two cases, State v. Stowe
22 (ph), State v. Swet (ph). They talk about how dismissal
23 interest of justice is a very extreme or rare circumstance,
24 and it would have to be when there are substantive and
25 procedural deficiencies in the system. And I went to go

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
178
1 print the case, but the printer is not working right now.
2 This case is not appropriate for that. He does
3 have some certain claims. Whether or not those are valid is
4 subject to civil remedies. He can file a (inaudible) claim,
5 no problem. If he feels like he's been discriminated
6 against because he has a disability, he certainly has a
7 civil right to go file that claim.
8 The only other procedural pickup that I heard him
9 say was while I was in jail, waiting on this (inaudible)
10 felony charge, and then they decided not to charge the
11 felony. That does not in itself rise to the level of some
12 of the procedural deficiency that would require dismissal in
13 the interest of justice.
14 THE COURT: And I think the other procedural
15 deficiencies that I heard him mention were claim ineffective
16 assistance of counsel with the court appointed counsel,
17 Ms. Rutledge, and also the discovery, the delay in
18 discovery, discovery violations that's impaired his ability
19 to proceed. That's what I understood.
21 THE COURT: Okay. So you need to address those as
22 well.
23 MR. MAZOROL: The ineffective assistance of
24 counsel, Your Honor, that's something that Mr. Stull has to
25 address with his own counsel. It's not something the State

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
179
1 can effectively remedy. It's not something the State can
2 fix for Mr. Stull is ineffective assistance of counsel.
3 He does have now Mr. Behre as legal adviser, and he
4 has ways --
5 THE COURT: Well, the State certainly can fix that
6 post-trial if he were to be convicted and were to establish
7 that he did not receive adequate assistance of effective
8 counsel, there's post-conviction remedies available for
9 that. The question is that, having raised the issue
10 pre-trial, whether that's something that the State would
11 consider in addressing, whether to proceed and whether the
12 Court should consider in determining whether dismissal in
13 the interest of justice ought to be granted. That's what
14 he's getting at, I think.
15 MR. MAZOROL: Yes. And he has raised that, but he
16 has also decided to proceed forward without counsel. He has
17 made that choice a long time ago and --
18 THE COURT: Well, you can't hold that against him.
19 He has a right; he has a constitutional right to do that.
20 MR. MAZOROL: I understand, Your Honor, but if he
21 did want counsel and he did feel like that he had
22 ineffective assistance or counsel, then why did he waive
23 counsel thereafter? If he felt like he didn't have
24 appropriate counsel, then he should have requested another
25 attorney instead of waiving it.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
180
1 THE COURT: I guess I don't understand the logic.
2 If you're charged with a crime, and you think you're not
3 being adequately represented by the court appointed lawyer,
4 and then say okay, I'll choose to represent myself, I don't
5 see anything illogical about that choice.
6 MR. MAZOROL: Well, I would submit that he should
7 have asked for a different lawyer, and I don't know that it
8 was anything he said --
9 THE COURT: He had enough, and according to his
10 letter, he'd be happy to be represented by Harry Carson, but
11 they won't appoint Harry Carson because he only does
12 felonies.
13 MR. MAZOROL: All right. All right. Well, I don't
14 know why he couldn't have just received another attorney.
15 Putting that aside, Your Honor, the issue of being in jail
16 for a certain period of time, that does not of itself rise
17 to the level of dismissal interest of justice.
18 The discovery, my understanding is, Your Honor, I
19 just received this case as a special assignment last week.
20 My understanding of the discovery is it is proceeding
21 forward, and Mr. Stull had received a substantial amount of
22 the discovery, to the extent that there are some procedural
23 discovery that he needs to receive. We're happy to get that
24 done and happy to work with him and make sure that he has
25 that. It would be pre-trial. So I don't think that in and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
181
1 of itself rises to the level of dismissal interest of
2 justice either.
3 THE COURT: You've got a trial date coming up,
4 don't you?
5 MR. MAZOROL: Yes, Your Honor, on the 25th.
6 THE COURT: So pre-trial better be darn soon if you
7 want to be proceeding to trial at that point, if the case
8 stays alive.
9 MR. MAZOROL: Yes, Your Honor. And I have some
10 question as to whether or not that will. There has been
11 some subpoenas to the mayor in this case, and I believe that
12 they -- I don't want to represent what they may do, but he
13 may plan to move to quash. So it may be --
14 THE COURT: That will be up the Court to address so
15 I'm not going to pre-judge those.
16 MR. MAZOROL: No, I understand, Your Honor. So the
17 discovery stuff, happy to work with Mr. Stull. I'm happy to
18 work with Mr. Behre as the legal advisor to make sure that
19 he has everything he needed. I saw something else that he
20 needed to do, a witness statement. I provided that to him
21 immediately after I saw it. We are working with him. I
22 don't know about the issue yesterday that he wasn't provided
23 discovery, happy to look into that.
24 So when we look at, Your Honor, it's a rare
25 circumstance, it's a severe circumstance when procedural and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
182
1 substantive rights have been violated, that dismissal in the
2 interest of justice are warranted. It doesn't rise to the
3 level in this case.
4 Mr. Stull certainly has the right to go file civil
5 actions in the (inaudible) claims if he wants to. But that
6 doesn't mean that his criminal case is dismissed in the
7 interest of justice.
8 THE COURT: All right. So your position is, just
9 to summarize and make sure I understand your position is,
10 one, although the district attorney's office has the
11 authority to dismiss charges, exercise a prosecutorial
12 discretion, based on what you know so far, you're not
13 prepared to agree to dismissal of those charges?
14 MR. MAZOROL: No, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: And then second, in terms of whether
16 the Court should dismiss, you're opposing that, and your
17 position is there's insufficient grounds for the Court to
18 dismiss in the interest of justice?
20 THE COURT: Okay. I understand your position.
21 I think, Mr. Stull, I think I understand your
22 position. I may not have captured every particular nuance,
23 but I read your letter, I heard your arguments. Is there
24 anything else that you think I've missed that you want to
25 make sure I understand?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
183
1 MR. STULL: No. I think it's important, Your
2 Honor, that -- and I think you've done that, just by your
3 demeanor today, is to understand that part of my having a
4 disability is I have a disability, and I can't do things the
5 way people that don't have my disability would do that.
6 And as I mentioned at the outset, in the first
7 paragraph of that lengthy document, I can't -- like now, I'm
8 having (inaudible) speech because it's part of my
9 disability. It interferes with my ability to vocalize.
10 I can't pursue this case as the person with a
11 disability the way I could with the property that I had on
12 me at the time. And not only was that inappropriately
13 removed and destroyed, but in having that have had happened
14 to me, on a daily basis, I'm having some salt ground into my
15 wounds, whether it's using this bag that I -- I don't know
16 how to use -- all this stuff is free box or maybe from the
17 Goodwill bins or something, but I didn't buy any of this
18 stuff. So I didn't select this particularly for my need.
19 And I'm still learning how my files fit in this
20 because I had to replace what I'd worked with for years that
21 was, you know, my backpack, which had a folder. And it's
22 all visible in the video.
23 So the things are that, one, I have my disability;
24 two, as a person with my disability, I'm hampered now from
25 the impact of the destruction of my property, which, three,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
184
1 was my coping mechanisms for my disability; and four, was
2 the evidence for me to present a case.
3 THE COURT: I gotcha. And I didn't state that, and
4 I understand that there's -- I mean, that's somewhat
5 separate from your disability discrimination claim. It's a
6 claim that a combination of your disability and the
7 destruction of your property prevents you, in your view,
8 from being able to adequately defend yourself against these
9 charges, which is another circumstance that the Court can
10 consider in determining whether dismissal in the interest of
11 justice ought to be granted.
12 That's what I understand you to -- that's how I --
13 MR. STULL: And I'll refer to, quickly, I'll refer
14 to specific examples. Now aside from, as I mentioned,
15 Metropolitan, I feel that their firm having so many cases is
16 in fact unconstitutional because what they're doing is
17 they're -- we are doing, is we are assigning persons like
18 myself to a firm that cannot handle the load.
19 THE COURT: Certainly unwise, and whether or not
20 it's unconstitutional or not would be for another day.
21 MR. STULL: So I'm raising that point. I'm not
22 alone in that observation, and I do think it's important to
23 say that.
24 I'm sorry, I -- I don't know where I was going with
25 that. But that's important, to me. And as I said, being in

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
185
1 custody without medical treatment really, I didn't -- I
2 couldn't stand the disappointment. I tried. If I would
3 have -- even with sending out the slightly different --
4 well, when I sent out the power of attorney and got the
5 check to have me bail out, that didn't even work.
6 So I was in a situation where the more I tried, the
7 more I failed. And these things were themselves troubling,
8 and so now I'm in a situation where I've endured all that.
9 I don't have my possessions that were coping mechanisms to
10 help me endure all that.
11 And -- oh, I remember where I was going. 823-4000
12 is a phone number you need to know. 503-823-4000 is the
13 phone number you need to know if you want to know how to put
14 money on somebody's books in the jail or you want to talk to
15 Captain Raymond Adgers. I've got his business card, but if
16 I didn't want to I could call 823-4000, and I could get that
17 over the telephone, but I can't because I'm not allowed to
18 have any contact with my victim, which was the Office of
19 Neighborhood Involvement. So they've got me hampered on
20 every -- so I can't personally do the work.
21 I had three business cards from -- three City of
22 Portland Police business cards; one was the fellow from
23 Hillsboro. I think the other one was from Wes Limb (ph).
24 The third one was one of the Portland Police Bureau Officer
25 Heltriche. I think there's more than one of them. I had

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
186
1 those business cards from the Emanuel Hospital trip to the
2 Court where I got kicked on the bus; I had those business
3 cards in my files at City Hall the following day. Those
4 were destroyed. Where I could simply say these were the
5 three fellows that I interacted with, who wrote the police
6 report, I can't do that.
7 So not only is the guy who was the crime victim,
8 but when I got the police reports when they did respond, I
9 don't have those cards. I don't have those cards because
10 they were destroyed.
11 So if I were to say, well, if I'm going to have a
12 jury come in this month and they're going to sit here and
13 they're going to listen to what happened to me that day, and
14 I want to bring out the issue that I was triggered because I
15 was a crime victim, and I just want to call off one of these
16 three officers, I can't because I don't have those cards.
17 Those were in the property that was destroyed.
18 So I just -- I want to express these things -- what
19 I do think, Your Honor, I do what I call staff benefits. I
20 try to do -- get more than one thing accomplished at same
21 time, or you know --
22 THE COURT: No, I understand what you're saying.
23 MR. STULL: Right? So I don't want to --
24 similarly, when I said the legal theories of the disability
25 discrimination and interest of justice and all those kind of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
187
1 things, they're -- they may overlap, or they may do so
2 perfectly, and they may only cover some edges. But I don't
3 want to --
4 THE COURT: And you don't want those to limit you.
5 I understand that.
6 MR. STULL: Right.
7 THE COURT: I understand that point.
8 MR. STULL: So the loss of my goods, specifically,
9 I'll just tell you what I lost. I lost the things I need to
10 maintain my health. I need my things -- if I wanted to go
11 somewhere and I needed my ID, I had to get my ID replaced at
12 Motor Vehicle Division. If you say to folks what would you
13 rather do, stand in line around the corner at the courthouse
14 or wait in DMV to get your driver's license replaced, people
15 would say they'd probably want to sit in the park or they
16 would probably want to do anything else. These are not on
17 the lists of things that people want to do. Some people are
18 weird and they like to do weird things, but what I'm saying
19 is when you want to tell somebody about a bureaucratic
20 nightmare, you say, oh, remember the time I went to the DMV
21 and I had to wait for this, that, and the other thing.
22 This experience has forced that on me. And it's
23 forced that on me simply so I can go into the restaurant and
24 have a meal because they can't let me in without ID because
25 they're a bar, and the OLCC has been really hard on them.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
188
1 And I experienced that when I got out. I went with my lady
2 friend when I went to go eat, and they said do you have your
3 ID, and I said no, the police threw it out. They said well,
4 you can't eat here because we're a bar, and so I couldn't
5 even eat.
6 I got my food stamp card replaced. I had to go to
7 the office and do that. And I had to go to the office
8 again. And this is what I'm doing to not even get to where
9 I was the person that was arrested (inaudible). Like I
10 said, I'm still -- the cops have more keys to my house than
11 I do. I don't have a key to my back door. These things
12 hamper me, one, that whole experience and revisiting it
13 sickens me as a person with my disability, two, and three,
14 in addition to that hampering and the sickening, I don't
15 have the evidence.
16 THE COURT: All right. I can understand your
17 position.
18 MR. STULL: Okay. So thank you, Your Honor. I
19 wanted to be broad with that and fair. I want to be fair
20 with that.
22 So here's what I'm going to do. The first issue on
23 whether or not the district attorney's office ought to
24 proceed with these charges is a question that only the
25 district attorney's office can answer. I can't decide that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
189
1 for them. So they can answer that. Today they're not
2 prepared to dismiss these charges. They can always
3 reconsider and revisit that decision up until the time of
4 trial if they want to do that. So that's an issue that's
5 not before me.
6 The issue that is before me is whether dismissal in
7 the interest of justice ought to be granted. I'm authorized
8 to do so under the statute ORS 135.755. Justice is a broad
9 concept, and it can include lots of things, and there are a
10 lot of -- Mr. Stull is charged with incidents occurring on
11 November 25 th and November -- I've got one in front of me, a
12 few days earlier. And those incidents didn't happen in
13 isolation. They happened in the context of a larger
14 narrative. And how much of that larger narrative will be
15 presented at trial will be something that a trial judge will
16 have to address.
17 But I can consider that larger narrative in
18 determining whether dismissal in the interest of justice at
19 this time is warranted. And so I have done my best to
20 consider that larger narrative and the underlying
21 circumstances that Mr. Stull has brought to my attention,
22 both orally and through his written presentation, Exhibit
23 101.
24 Considering all of that, there are parts of that
25 that may or may not be disputed. There are parts of that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
190
1 that are troubling if -- troubling or disturbing to the
2 extent they can be substantiated. And there are parts that
3 are concerning to me both as a citizen and as a judge.
4 But I'm not the fact finder in this case. This is
5 something that fact finders may have to address. Based on
6 what I've seen so far, I do understand the law that
7 establishes the parameters of dismissal in the interest of
8 justice.
9 And that is something that should be rarely granted
10 in extreme circumstances. This is a high standard to meet.
11 There are cases in which dismissal in the interest of
12 justice ought to be granted. I'm not convinced, based on
13 what I've heard so far and based on my understanding of
14 Mr. Stull's position, that even though while certain aspects
15 of this narrative are troubling and concerning, I'm not
16 convinced that they warrant dismissal of these charges
17 pre-trial.
18 And so the Motion -- there's other -- that's the
19 statutory basis that would give me authority to dismiss.
20 I've looked at other statutes that address dismissal
21 pre-trial of an accusatory instrument. I don't see any
22 authority for me to consider dismissal other than the ORS
23 135.755 which is broad and allows me to consider all sorts
24 of things in the interest of justice. I've done my best to
25 consider them, and I'm not convinced that dismissal under

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
191
1 that statute is warranted at this time, and so the Motion
2 for Judgment of Dismissal is denied.
3 We've already got other dates, and if the State
4 decides it wants to proceed with this trial, we can address
5 those dates. If Mr. Stull is asking for additional time to
6 prepare for trial, that's not a request he can present to
7 me. He would have to present it to the CPC court for
8 scheduling matters. So that's back to Judge Marshall.
9 I'm going to give you a minute order with my ruling
10 so you have a written ruling. And that is applicable to
11 both cases, so there'll be two minute orders.
12 (Proceedings adjourned at 11:34 p.m., recommencing
13 in Volume 13, June 9, 2016.)
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
192
2 I, Cindy Weiper, court-approved transcriber,
8 _________________________
9 Cindy Weiper
12 Salem, OR 97302
13 970.405.3643
14
15 Date: April 12, 2017
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 193 - 195
______________________________________________________________

Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

Unknown

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
193
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Last up, Stull.
5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Stull.
6 THE DEFENDANT: Present, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: State is reporting ready on
9 both cases, Your Honor. The first case reporting ready,
10 five witnesses, one and a half days. And the second case,
11 13 witnesses. This could spill into the third day. I know
12 there is (indiscernible) conference next week, so I want to
13 alert the Court to that concern.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Ms. Rosenbaum is also here.
16 She had a motion to quash on one of those cases and I think
17 she's hoping to be heard on that today.
18 MS. ROSENBAUM: Yes, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Okay, a motion to quash a subpoena?
20 MS. ROSENBAUM: A subpoena to Dr. Rosenbaum, who
21 has no recollection of having seen this patient.
22 THE COURT: Okay. So we'll send that out for
23 someone to hear this morning, okay?
24 MS. ROSENBAUM: Do we know --
25 THE COURT: In just a second, okay? We'll come

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
194
1 back to it in just a second, okay.
2 All right. So that trial will go to Judge
3 Immergut.
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thanks, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Okay. And then -- but stay here,
6 Mr. Stull, because we have to send out for that motion.
8 in Volume 15, June 9, 2016.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
195
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 13, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 196 - 208
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable LESLIE
ROBERTS, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, June 9, 2016
APPEARANCES

Mike Botthof, OSB #113337
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
mike.botthof@mcda.us

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
APPEARANCES (Continued)
Bryan Francesconi, OSB #063285

Metropolitan Public Defender Services, Inc.
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100
bfrancesconi@mpdlaw.com
For Witness, Dr. Richard Rosenblum
Lois Rosenblum

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
196
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: This is the time and place set for a
5 motion to quash subpoena in the case of 15 -- case number
6 15CR53749, State of Oregon vs. Stull.
7 Why don't we just identify everybody at counsel
8 table?
9 MS. ROSENBAUM: Yes, Your Honor. Lois Rosenbaum for
10 a witness -- a subpoenaed witness, Dr. Richard Rosenbaum.
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 THE DEFENDANT: Barry Joe Stull, pro se.
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. FRANCESCONI: Good morning, Judge. Bryan
15 Francesconi, Metro, 063285. I have been appointed as the
16 legal advisor on this matter.
17 THE COURT: You've been?
18 MR. FRANCESCONI: Appointed as a legal advisor on
19 this matter.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. FRANCESCONI: Very brief background with
22 Mr. Stull asked me to issue a subpoena in my role as a
23 legal advisor to a Dr. Rosenbaum. I did that, because it's
24 my position that Mr. Stull needs to make decisions on this
25 case regarding how he wants to proceed. It's my job to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
197
1 effectuate those requests, for the most part. And so I
2 issued a subpoena on this case.
3 However, that -- I consider that to be my role
4 with my client since he is the boss on this case,
5 determination as to why he's getting (indiscernible).
6 THE COURT: Okay. Very well. I just had a chance
7 to review the memorandum that you submitted, so do you want
8 to add anything to that?
9 MS. ROSENBLUM: I think it's all in the memorandum,
10 Your Honor, if you've read it. Just that Dr. Rosenblum
11 doesn't recall seeing the patient. He's happy to supply his
12 certified records. He's not going to be retained as an
13 expert witness and wouldn't offer any opinions if he came to
14 trial. And he does have full days scheduled. Patients
15 would be very inconvenienced if he had to cancel.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 Mr. Stull.
18 THE DEFENDANT: Good morning, Your Honor. First
19 of all, for the purpose of this hearing, I have to advise
20 you I'm quite ill. I have a neurological condition. It's
21 called Central Pain.
22 THE COURT: Is it difficult for you to stand?
23 THE DEFENDANT: Oh, no. It's --
24 THE COURT: Well, then, it's appropriate to stand
25 when you address the Court.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
198
1 THE DEFENDANT: Oh. Well, thank you, Your Honor.
2 I certainly will.
3 Is the recording picking me up?
4 THE COURT: Pardon?
5 THE CLERK: Yes.
6 THE DEFENDANT: Your Honor, as I mentioned, for
7 the purpose of this hearing, I'm telling you I'm quite ill.
8 I have a very severe disability. It's actually life-
9 threatening under certain circumstances. And I'm trying to
10 cover all the territory I can by first presenting that I do
11 have a disability.
12 And you might observe, as these other folks may
13 observe, this is what we term an invisible disability. I
14 don't have a service animal. I don't have pain. I'm not in
15 a wheelchair. And frankly, my bicycle's parked outside where
16 I left it this weekend. It's been there for about four or
17 five days. It's still out there. But I walk to the MAX.
18 So my problem is, Your Honor, is that I have a very
19 severe neurological condition. I'm facing charges where the
20 fact that I'm a person with a disability is an offense. The
21 case law in that State vs. Marbet. It's kind of quite
22 clear. It's on point on these issues.
23 My trouble is, Your Honor, on February 9th, I was
24 in custody, and that day, the District Attorney presented a
25 motion, which was accepted by me in the court, dismissing a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
199
1 felony charge. At that time, I was in front of Judge
2 Marshall. And the standards that we set were this. I was
3 going to represent myself. I'm quite capable of doing that.
4 And being in my position as a person with a disability in
5 this society, I'm well-read on these matters.
6 So Judge Marshall allowed me to represent myself.
7 And the very specific point that I raised on February 9th was
8 that I need to have assistance getting my medical records and
9 my witness subpoenaed. I have a case that's kind of a
10 humorous thing for to see, justice delayed is justice denied.
11 Your Honor, I have a case from 2012 in this circuit
12 that's still on appeal in the Oregon Court of Appeals. And
13 the briefs have been in front of the Court now for well over
14 a year. And that issue is the Portland Police refusing to
15 accept my defense witness subpoenas and that being allowed
16 to happen in this circuit court. So I'm still burned from
17 that issue, and here I'm facing this one.
18 The reason I subpoenaed this doctor, Your Honor, is
19 because it's essential to my defense that people's prejudices
20 and bias are filtered as much as possible, because I could
21 show you in my paperwork here, I was at Emanuel Hospital in
22 October 2011 where I required 45 minutes of exclusive
23 critical care to prevent circulatory failure because my pulse
24 was at an incredible 175 beats a minute. Right here,
25 probably a little excited. It's probably getting upwards to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
200
1 65 beats a minute because I'm excited.
2 So my pulse is extraordinarily low. My physical
3 condition is a product of my disability because I have to
4 address my chronic pain condition.
5 And what happened to me, Your Honor, is I went to
6 the library last night and I got an email which was from
7 several days ago from Mr. Francesconi saying that this issue
8 was coming. And then at 2:00, apparently, the motion was
9 emailed to me yesterday. So I'm not even on my first days'
10 notice of this event that I'm addressing here today.
11 The law's quite clear is that as a Defendant, I'm
12 allowed to have my defense witnesses. What it's not so
13 clear about is how I get those when I have a hostile
14 relationship with the Public Defender's firm, and that's
15 because they did absolutely no work on this case when I was
16 in custody, with the exception of trying to get me to take a
17 plea offer.
18 THE COURT: Just a second.
19 Were you going to appear on this case still?
20 MR. BOTTHOF: I think that's the plan, yes, Judge.
21 THE COURT: Okay. Well, we were under the
22 impression that nobody was going to come down, but why don't
23 you come have a seat and we'll --
24 MR. BOTTHOF: Okay, thank you. Sorry for the
25 confusion.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
201
1 THE COURT: -- place your appearances on the record.
2 And just --
3 THE DEFENDANT: So -- okay, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: -- just a second. Let's take care of
5 this.
6 THE DEFENDANT: Go ahead, take care of the
7 housekeeping.
8 THE COURT: Yeah. We're just going to take care of
9 this.
10 Okay. Go ahead, place your appearance
11 (indiscernible).
12 MR. BOTTHOF: Thank you, Judge. I apologize for
13 being late.
14 THE COURT: I apologize for not -- for going ahead,
15 because we didn't believe that we were going to get a
16 representation.
17 MR. BOTTHOF: It's Mike Botthof for the State,
18 B-o-t-t-h-o-f, Bar Number 113337. Thank you, Judge.
19 THE COURT: Okay. We've just begun.
20 Okay. Please continue.
21 THE DEFENDANT: All right. And my problem, Your
22 Honor, is I'm operating from the position, as I have from
23 the outset, that this entire experience for me is one that
24 violates my rights as a person with a disability. I don't
25 see that 10 or 12 or 15 court appearances and a not guilty

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
202
1 is a win. That's me getting up and getting here so I can
2 ultimately prevail, and then what do I get: nothing. I
3 just get to ruin my life coming in here and having all these
4 arguments with all these people that, frankly, I probably
5 wouldn't you give the time of day otherwise.
6 So this is a hostile environment for me because I'm
7 a person with a severe disability. It's neurological. My
8 neurologist that passed away here several years ago was
9 qualified by the Oregon Supreme Court as an expert witness.
10 And he characterized in his sworn trial testimony in 2004,
11 that my condition is a whole new disease on a molecular
12 basis.
13 I don't know how I'm supposed to overcome the fact
14 that I just learned here in this courtroom, Your Honor, that
15 the problem is that my court-appointed counsel didn't intend
16 to pay the good doctor for his appearance. And I'm smart
17 enough to read the statute that says that as a person that
18 can't afford an attorney, that expense comes right along
19 with everything else that it takes to defend.
20 So I don't know how to -- I don't know what to do
21 with all of you. All I can say is in this courthouse, on
22 February 9th, I said I need assistance in getting my medical
23 records and getting my witnesses. And I don't know what I
24 can say to reinforce that when I'm being passed around like
25 a hot potato at this Public Defense firm.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
203
1 This gentleman here was not at my two and a half
2 hour hearing in front of Judge Bushong on this case, Your
3 Honor, so he doesn't know that two and a half hours' worth of
4 information that I presented there, because when his
5 colleague handed me the card and said, come to the
6 appointment on April 20th, I went to the appointment and I
7 got a whole new guy, probably quite competent, but certainly
8 informed as I am, and as any attorney would have been who had
9 been assigned to my case at the outset, who treated my case
10 with respect, who treated me with respect, and prevented all
11 this.
12 Why am I as a person with a disability slated for
13 trial on Monday here on Friday learning that I have to fix
14 some problem with a subpoena because my witness isn't going
15 to be available? That's not my problem, Your Honor.
16 THE COURT: Actually, it is your problem, but --
17 THE DEFENDANT: No, no, no, Your Honor, because --
18 THE COURT: -- the only issue here is what we do
19 about what's happened. What Dr. Rosenblum's submission says
20 is that he doesn't have any recollection, but he's willing to
21 make the medical records available to you. But he himself
22 has nothing to say, so --
23 THE DEFENDANT: How could that possibly -- he
24 diagnosed me. How can he not look at his chart notes and
25 say --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
204
1 THE COURT: Well, then your chart notes themselves
2 are --
3 THE DEFENDANT: Do you know what Central Pain is?
4 Excuse me for interrupting.
5 THE COURT: I'm not argue with you about it. I'm
6 just telling you that that's the subject matter here. And
7 the question is, in -- what lawyers generally do is that they
8 contact people like that to determine their availability and
9 arrange with them.
10 THE DEFENDANT: On May 27th, Your Honor, this case
11 was generated --
12 THE COURT: I am not --
13 THE DEFENDANT: -- in November.
14 THE COURT: Please. If I'm talking, you don't
15 talk.
16 THE DEFENDANT: Okay, I'm leaving. I'm sick.
18 THE DEFENDANT: I'm a person with a disability.
19 THE COURT: I'll quash the subpoena.
20 MS. ROSENBAUM: Thank you, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: I'll quash the subpoena.
22 MR. FRANCESCONI: Thank you, Judge.
23 THE DEFENDANT: I'm saying I'm leaving because I'm
24 ill.
25 THE COURT: Go.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
205
1 THE DEFENDANT: I'm ill. I have a severe
2 disability.
3 THE COURT: No, you're leaving because you're mad
4 at me.
5 THE DEFENDANT: No, Your Honor --
6 THE COURT: That's all right.
7 THE DEFENDANT: -- I'm not.
8 THE COURT: I --
9 THE DEFENDANT: And this is all on the record, I
10 hope. We're still on the record.
11 THE COURT: Yeah, we're on the record, and I'm
12 making a finding.
13 THE DEFENDANT: Okay. I'm invoking right now --
14 THE COURT: I'm making a finding --
15 THE DEFENDANT: -- my rights as a person with a
16 disability --
17 THE COURT: -- that you're being disruptive.
18 THE DEFENDANT: -- under ORS 659A.--
19 THE COURT: You're being disruptive.
20 THE DEFENDANT: -- 142 --
21 THE COURT: Do you know if you maintain in this
22 course during your trial, you will not be allowed to
23 represent yourself?
25 THE COURT: So you're going to have to --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
206
1 THE DEFENDANT: -- this is a hostile environment to
2 me.
3 THE COURT: -- contain yourself.
4 THE DEFENDANT: I'm going to take this up with the
5 presiding Court today at ex parte, and we're going to see
6 what we're going to do because --
8 THE DEFENDANT: -- because I cannot find out --
9 THE COURT: Do what you like.
10 THE DEFENDANT: -- what -- what is your rational,
11 aside from me being upset with this?
12 THE COURT: The witness has --
13 THE DEFENDANT: What is your rationale?
14 THE COURT: The witness has nothing to say in your
15 case. You --
16 THE DEFENDANT: According to the witness?
17 THE COURT: Yes.
18 THE DEFENDANT: According to that memorandum.
19 You're saying, according to the memorandum, the witness is
20 saying the witness has nothing to say, so they do not have
21 to respond to the subpoena. What force can a subpoena have
22 in Multnomah County Circuit Court if any witness can simply
23 say, I don't have anything to say? That's not why we
24 subpoena people.
25 THE COURT: I have ruled --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
207
1 THE DEFENDANT: We subpoena them to force them into
2 court.
3 THE COURT: -- and we are adjourned.
4 THE DEFENDANT: Thank you, Your Honor.
6 MS. ROSENBAUM: Thank you, Your Honor.
7 MR. FRANCESCONI: Thank you, Judge.
9 in Volume 16, June 13, 2016.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
208
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 14, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 209 - 230
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable KARIN J.
IMMERGUT, Judge of the Circuit Court, Monday, June 13, 2016
APPEARANCES

Eamon P. McMahon, OSB #153879
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
eamon.mcmahon@mcda.us

Bryan Francesconi, OSB #063285
Metropolitan Public Defender Services, Inc.
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 225-9100
bfrancesconi@mpdlaw.com

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
209
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; MONDAY, JUNE 13, 2016
2 -O0O-
5 MR. McMAHON: And good morning, Your Honor. Eamon
6 McMahon for the State, M-c-M-a-h-o-n, Bar Number 153879.
7 Calling two cases for Barry Stull, 15CR52961 and 15CR53749.
8 Today is the time and place for trial at 9:00 a.m. It is
9 now 9:25 and the Defendant has not shown.
11 MR. FRANCESCONI: Good morning, Judge. Bryan
12 Francesconi, Metro, 063285. Mr. Stull represents himself.
13 I'm sure he'd object to us having a hearing without him
14 being present. I'm sure he would object to the warrants.
15 I'm surprised he's not here. I know he --
16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He was planning on being
17 here.
18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Did you check CPC?
21 MR. FRANCESCONI: I could check CPC. As the Court's
22 aware, he did email the Court. He'd been at probably 20
23 court appearances on these cases, so I am surprised.
25 THE COURT: Well, what I'll do is I will -- I'll

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
210
1 issue a bench warrant, $5,000. I will -- in both cases,
2 but I will hold the warrants to enter until noon. So he
3 won't necessarily be arrested, but what is likely then to
4 happen is he'll get continued because now we're not going
5 to find a place to put it. And if he shows up before noon,
6 then I'll at least continue the case.
7 MR. FRANCESCONI: Okay. I'll go run upstairs.
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He was completely on it
9 yesterday. And he lives quite a distance away on the bus.
10 THE COURT: Yeah.
11 MR. FRANCESCONI: I was on the bridge for an hour,
12 so --
13 THE COURT: Yeah. So I'll -- I mean, I'll hold
14 the warrant, so he's not going to arrested right now, but
15 I'll hold the warrant till noon.
16 MR. FRANCESCONI: Okay.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Any issues -- I mean, I
18 understand that you've noted his objections for the record.
19 Mr. Francesconi, will you be someplace in the
20 event that he shows up soon?
21 MR. McMAHON: If Mr. Francesconi wants to check if
22 he's -- I can have my witnesses hang out for another --
24 MR. McMAHON: -- five minutes. But if he's not in
25 CPC, I'm just going to ask that my witnesses be released --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
211
1 THE COURT: Yeah, because they're holding a lot of
2 witnesses.
3 MR. FRANCESCONI: Sounds good. And I'm going to
4 watch other attorneys in trial, so just same time if you
5 need me.
6 THE COURT: And let me tell you, Mr. Francesconi,
7 my plan because Mr. Stull has been set over I think in the
8 past, but he's not the priority case because he's out of
9 custody, I'm going to do this other case. I can get it
10 done pretty -- it's a jury trial, but I think I can get it
11 done by this afternoon, I hope, and then I will just take
12 Mr. Stull's case this afternoon starting as soon as I can.
14 THE COURT: Because Mr. McMahon's in the same case
15 and it's specially assigned to him.
16 MR. FRANCESCONI: So are we doing one case after
17 another? What's the plan with these cases?
18 THE COURT: Probably what would happen is at least
19 we get the first one done rather than -- I just felt bad
20 about continuing the whole thing again.
21 MR. FRANCESCONI: Yeah.
22 THE COURT: We'd do the shorter case this afternoon,
23 and the City Hall trespass would be continued.
24 MR. FRANCESCONI: Okay. So can I release at least
25 my City Hall witnesses, and I'll have my trespass witnesses

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
212
1 hang out for a little bit longer see if he shows up. Is
2 that --
3 THE COURT: Right.
4 MR. FRANCESCONI: -- is that --
5 THE COURT: I think that's fine -- well, because
6 the other -- otherwise, I don't know how Mr. McMahon can do
7 it. If you did the City --
8 MR. FRANCESCONI: Why don't I just
9 (indiscernible).
10 MR. BOTTHOF: Okay, yeah.
11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If Mr. McMahon would allow
12 my client to plead to the --
13 MR. McMAHON: No.
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- indecent exposure, we
15 could clear it for Mr. Stull all the way.
16 MR. McMAHON: That's absolutely not going to
17 happen (indiscernible).
18 THE COURT: Is (indiscernible) his other charges?
19 MR. McMAHON: Public indecency.
20 THE COURT: Okay. And is that a higher level
21 misdemeanor?
22 MR. McMAHON: It's also (indiscernible) crime, so --
23 THE COURT: Okay, yeah, let's go check first.
24 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
25 (Off the record from 9:28 a.m. to 9:30 a.m.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
213
1 THE COURT: -- case. Mr. Francesconi has checked
2 Criminal Procedure Court to see if Mr. Stull was possibly
3 there and could have ended up at the wrong place.
4 And he -- Mr. Francesconi, you were unable to
5 locate him?
6 MR. FRANCESCONI: No. Again, Your Honor, I don't
7 have a phone number for him, so I can't call and check.
8 THE COURT: Okay. And I know one of his friends
9 or witnesses is in court. Were you able to reach him them?
10 MR. FRANCESCONI: Do you guys have a number for
11 him?
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I do.
13 MR. FRANCESCONI: You have a phone number for him?
14 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I do
15 MR. FRANCESCONI: Do you mind going out in the
16 hallway and calling him to see --
17 THE COURT: Did you try to call him before?
18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I did.
19 THE COURT: And you didn't --
20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I left him a message saying
21 we were here.
22 THE COURT: Okay. So he's -- and what's your name?
23 MS. CLIFFORD: Julie.
24 THE COURT: Julie?
25 MS. CLIFFORD: Clifford.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
214
1 THE COURT: What's your last name?
2 MS. CLIFFORD: Clifford.
3 THE COURT: Julie Clifford, who's a witness friend
4 is here.
5 MS. CLIFFORD: I don't know that -- I'm not a
6 witness.
7 THE COURT: Oh, not a witness, okay. So friend --
8 MS. CLIFFORD: Just a friend.
9 THE COURT: -- supporter is here, but tried to
10 reach him a few minutes ago. I mean, I'm happy if you want
11 to make one more effort, but --
12 MR. FRANCESCONI: That's okay.
13 THE COURT: Okay. So I'm going to issue a bench
14 warrant. Again, I'll hold it till noon, but it does mean
15 then the cases will be rescheduled.
17 THE COURT: So do -- we'll just let you know,
18 Mr. Francesconi, if he shows up and we'll just be at a later
19 date.
20 MR. FRANCESCONI: Great.
21 MR. BOTTHOF: Thank you, Your Honor.
22 MR. FRANCESCONI: Thank you, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Well, Mr. -- you're Mr. Stull, I
25 presume?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
215
2 THE COURT: So unfortunate -- well, let me say, I
3 did issue a bench warrant because you were not here for
4 your arrest. I'll rescind your bench warrant. But it did
5 mean the State has let all their witnesses go.
6 MR. STULL: I saw them as I was walking with my
7 bicycle. But I probably wouldn't be here yet. The MAX is
8 -- were all stopped. The Steel Bridge was up for an hour
9 because the Rose Festival is leaving. And I called at 8:36
10 when they were saying that the bridges were up for half
11 hour. And before I got off, I rode my bike from the Rose
12 Garden over there. They said the bridge had been up for an
13 hour at that point.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 MR. STULL: So this is going to be dribbling the
16 whole downtown Portland, so I'm just the first one to
17 announce that --
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 MR. STULL: -- here we are. We were trapped over
20 there on the other side of the river.
21 THE COURT: All right. So unfortunately --
22 MR. STULL: Yes.
23 THE COURT: -- it does mean -- I had hoped I would
24 start your case right after this case this afternoon, but
25 now that's not going to be possible because all the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
216
1 witnesses have been released.
2 MR. STULL: Okay.
3 THE COURT: So we are going to have to set your
4 case over, which -- or your cases.
5 MR. STULL: Right.
6 THE COURT: Do we want to --
7 MR. STULL: Your Honor, if you don't mind, you
8 just came out. Obviously, you were prepared to take care
9 of some business with these folks. I just got here a full
10 hour after I intended to. So if you don't mind, you can go
11 ahead and take care of your business and I'll be here
12 because I'm not going anywhere with a bench warrant for my
13 arrest. That's not --
14 THE COURT: I'm going to --
15 MR. STULL: -- I understand. We'll let that all
16 clear.
17 THE COURT: Well, it's not even -- we didn't enter
18 it.
19 MR. STULL: Okay. All right, so --
20 THE COURT: I held -- I was going to hold it.
21 MR. STULL: But we haven't called the case here or
22 anything and --
23 THE COURT: So --
24 MR. STULL: -- so, like I said, you were surprised
25 when you came out here, and if you want to proceed with

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
217
1 this matter.
2 THE COURT: Well, this is a whole trial. This is
3 going to take --
4 MR. STULL: Oh, okay. I'm giving you the option
5 first because it's your court.
6 THE COURT: Yes, thank you.
7 MR. STULL: I'm just -- I'm being fair with you
8 that I don't have to run out of here in a second.
9 THE COURT: Yes. No, no, I appreciate that.
10 MR. STULL: All right. But I will get out of your
11 business as soon as it's appropriate.
12 THE COURT: So what I'll do is actually -- let me
13 have -- well, let's move the mic. We'll just call the case
14 and then I'm not -- I think I can reset it here if you have
15 dates.
16 MR. FRANCESCONI: I don't. I have -- without any
17 witnesses --
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 MR. FRANCESCONI: -- I don't have dates. I think
20 we'll set -- a date check about a week out, and I can work
21 and get my dates fixed and send Mr. Stull an email letting
22 him know what dates will work (indiscernible).
23 THE COURT: Okay. So let's just -- I'll have
24 Mr. McMahon call the case. We'll note on the record just
25 what time it is now and the --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
218
1 MR. BOTTHOF: And I'm sorry (indiscernible) case,
2 I took my case files back upstairs.
3 THE COURT: Sure. I can call the case.
4 Obviously, Mr. Stull, normally I would have you
5 here, but we have an in-custody defendant, so --
6 MR. STULL: Yeah, that's fine.
7 THE COURT: So this is the case of State vs. Barry
8 Stull. It's actually two case numbers: 15CR52961 and
9 15CR53749. Today was the time and place set for trial in
10 this matter. Mr. McMahon is here for the State. Mr. Stull
11 represents himself. And I did have Mr. Francesconi here
12 earlier, who has been appointed by the Court previously as
13 a legal advisor in this case.
14 This case was set for 9:00. It is now almost -- I
15 know Mr. Stull came in at 9:45, approximately. I had
16 earlier issued a bench warrant when he was -- I think it
17 was at 9:25, but I held it till noon just in the event that
18 you were going to come, and so it has not entered into the
19 system. I'm going to rescind -- recall the bench warrant.
20 So although you are, however, I did allow the
21 State to release its witnesses in both of the cases. So I
22 am going to set it back on Criminal Procedure Court a week
23 from now for the State to then verify the witness
24 schedules. And so you should do the same, Mr. Stull, if
25 you have various witnesses so you're ready to come in and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
219
1 pick new dates --
2 MR. STULL: Right.
3 THE COURT: -- next week.
4 MR. STULL: Your Honor, there's a matter that just
5 came to light with me going to my relationship with
6 Multnomah Public Defender and their transferring my case
7 among other attorneys over there.
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And Multnomah Defenders
9 (indiscernible).
10 THE COURT: Yeah, Francesconi is --
11 MR. STULL: What did I say? Oh, Metropolitan.
12 That's my mistake.
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. STULL: I'm still trying to deal with the
15 facts (indiscernible). Yeah, my misspeaking there.
16 The point is, that I learned as of -- I learned as
17 of Friday, that none of my defense witnesses had been
18 subpoenaed regarding the medical response paramedics and
19 the Portland Fire Bureau folks, because I went to Emanuel
20 Hospital by ambulance Sunday, the 22nd. That's one of
21 these cases --
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 MR. STULL: -- back in November.
24 So I had a two and a half hour hearing on this --
25 these matters before Judge Bushong, and I was given a card

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
220
1 to go to Metropolitan on April 28th when -- did I say that
2 -- when I went to their office, I was actually assigned to
3 Mr. Francesconi, who didn't have any of that knowledge from
4 that two and a half hour presentation, because that was
5 under Mr. Bear with the firm at the time.
6 Somewhere along the line, Mr. Francesconi didn't
7 get the memo that the reason that the firm was appointed as
8 my legal advisor was solely to affect my defense witnesses
9 and my medical records getting those subpoenas so that it
10 would be appropriately before the Court. And virtually
11 none of that's (indiscernible), Your Honor.
12 And so I learned of this on Thursday, the -- my
13 neurologist was -- had filed a -- they had filed the previous
14 day, at 2:00, they filed a motion to quash the subpoena. And
15 I have a neurological condition, and I was expecting they'd
16 have somebody be able to translate what my medical records
17 mean to the jury or the Court. If I elected to appear
18 before, you, trial before the Court, I would still need
19 somebody that could talk about my particular type of
20 disability, which is a neurological condition.
21 And I blew my stack in front of Judge Roberts on
22 Friday, because they quashed the subpoena. And
23 Mr. Francesconi told me that had I intended to call him as
24 an expert witness, I would have to pay him. And that's --
25 the whole paying of the witnesses is part of the same

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
221
1 statute that allows me as a defendant to subpoena them,
2 particularly when I have a court-appointed attorney, if I'm
3 indigent, and those expenses would go -- it's right in the
4 statute, that they go right on to the State.
5 So I learned the day before the -- you know,
6 basically the last judicial day we had on these matters, we
7 don't have trials on Fridays, but when this was set for
8 trial on Monday, on Thursday, I learned that I didn't have
9 any of my police witnesses. And when I had that appearance
10 back in the middle of April, I specifically said that one
11 of the issues is on the subpoena rules on ORCP 55, the
12 police officers have to have ten days before they can be
13 subpoenaed.
14 THE COURT: All right. I don't mean to --
15 MR. STULL: So I'm just telling you that because --
16 THE COURT: No, I understand. So --
17 MR. STULL: -- if I'm going to subpoena the police
18 officers, I need to have that ten days that's required in
19 the --
20 THE COURT: So let me do this --
21 MR. STULL: Yeah.
22 THE COURT: -- because I don't want you to waste a
23 lot of energy with me since --
24 MR. STULL: No. Yeah.
25 THE COURT: -- you know, as you can see, you are

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
222
1 likely to be in front of a totally different judge when you
2 come -- well, I know you will be when you come to Criminal
3 Procedure Court next week.
4 So what I want you to do though is be in touch with
5 Mr. Francesconi before the hearing next week, confer with
6 him about the subpoena issue so that you could be ready to
7 present next week.
8 And are you sure you don't want a lawyer? I mean,
9 really to --
10 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I --
11 THE COURT: I mean, I know somebody's already gone
12 over this with you. I just want to ask you again.
13 MR. STULL: Your Honor, incredible as it may
14 sound, I have on appeal currently a wrath of consolidated
15 cases from 2012.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 MR. STULL: And what's echoing in my burned ears is
18 the Deputy District Attorney saying to the jury, he could
19 have subpoenaed his doctors if he wanted to.
20 THE COURT: I don't want to -- okay.
21 MR. STULL: So I'm not going to do that again,
22 right.
23 THE COURT: No, no, I'm just saying --
24 MR. STULL: Right. So I'm really firm about that.
25 THE COURT: Right. So let's --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
223
1 MR. STULL: But I just lost one here on Thursday,
2 I learned, so I don't know how to rectify that, so --
3 THE COURT: So let me set it back -- well,
4 Mr. McMahon, do you want to address anything now?
5 MR. McMAHON: I think we just want to set it on CPM
6 for the 21st because there isn't a (indiscernible) docket a
7 week from today, so it would have to be on the 21st --
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. McMAHON: -- (indiscernible). And what I'll
10 do is I'll look through, see if I can get that date
11 together. I will email those to Mr. Stull.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. McMAHON: And that way he can pick a couple of
14 days. I would recommend that we block two or three days.
15 So if the trial started on Monday or Tuesday --
16 MR. STULL: Sure.
17 MR. McMAHON: -- assuming that the --
18 THE COURT: Okay. So we're going -- so next
19 Thursday, 9:00 a.m. --
20 MR. STULL: Okay.
21 THE COURT: -- you're going to go back to, is it
22 still Judge Marshall?
23 MR. STULL: Probably Judge Marshall.
24 MR. McMAHON: It is Judge Marshall.
25 THE COURT: So it's Marshall for CPC. I'll let

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
224
1 him know what happened here today as the issue, and also
2 pass along what you just said. But I would urge you to be
3 in touch with Mr. Francesconi. I know he's around the
4 building today because he was going to watch some trials
5 since your trial looked like it was not going to happen,
6 and talk to him about the subpoena issue, and so you have a
7 full understanding of what's going on.
8 MR. STULL: Right.
9 THE COURT: And then you'll pick trial dates next
10 Thursday in front of Judge Marshall.
11 MR. STULL: Okay. My only concern with this is
12 that -- I think it's ORCP 55 -- but the police officers
13 have to have that ten days' notice before that.
14 THE COURT: So you'll pick a trial date --
15 MR. STULL: So I'm just letting everybody know --
16 THE COURT: Yeah.
17 MR. STULL: -- that I learned on Friday that they
18 hadn't already been subpoenaed. I thought they were like
19 keeping a list and adding to it.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. STULL: And I found out that, no, that wasn't
22 happening.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. STULL: And, Your Honor, if I can -- if I can
25 close this matter with one important point.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
225
1 THE COURT: Sure.
2 MR. STULL: I appeared in front of Judge Marshall
3 February 9th, and that's when we finally decided that this
4 is how we're going to approach my defense of this case with
5 the law firm acting to affect my evidence and my witnesses.
6 And then subsequent of that, a couple things
7 happened. I learned that my property had been destroyed
8 while I was in custody, so I didn't have any of the
9 resources that I'd ordinarily expect and I had to spend a
10 lot of resources replacing them and recovering from the
11 shock of that loss.
12 But anyhow, the important point is that I have to
13 -- there's my disability coming in on me here -- that I
14 cannot, by order of my release status, because I have to
15 call Thursday. It's really minimal on my part, my status.
16 I don't have to --
17 THE COURT: Right, okay.
18 MR. STULL: -- any check-in really, except I call
19 once a week on the telephone. But I can't have contact with
20 the victims. And that's what I was fishing around in my mind
21 to decide what point I was trying to make. So I can't go
22 over to City Hall and give a subpoena to Jasmine Wadsworth
23 (ph), and my release folks over here at the Justice Center ,
24 I'll just refer to them over there as that --
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
226
1 MR. STULL: -- and we can get the paperwork out,
2 we won't need to.
3 THE COURT: Right. So the --
4 MR. STULL: But anyhow, we negotiated that it's no
5 contact with the victims --
6 THE COURT: Right.
7 MR. STULL: -- except through the attorney.
8 THE COURT: Right.
9 MR. STULL: So I can't subpoena them, and so that's
10 why I need the law firm to do that.
11 THE COURT: Right. That's why I'm sending you
12 back to Judge Marshall --
14 THE COURT: -- because he's familiar with your
15 case and your issues and --
16 MR. STULL: But unless some -- excuse me, Your
17 Honor. Unless something really -- the feet touch the ground
18 over there at the law firm, any of my requests and demands
19 and theories, they just don't go anywhere until they actually
20 do the work.
21 THE COURT: Right. So you have to ask Francesconi
22 about that, so --
23 MR. STULL: I mean --
24 THE COURT: -- and then --
25 MR. STULL: -- they suggested I move for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
227
1 replacement of counsel.
2 THE COURT: Well, he's a terrific lawyer, but he's
3 also just an advisor --
4 MR. STULL: It's -- it's --
5 THE COURT: -- so let me -- which is why generally
6 people are still better off having a lawyer than --
7 MR. STULL: Right.
8 THE COURT: -- simply an advisor.
9 MR. STULL: Right.
10 THE COURT: And I would urge you to rethink that,
11 but I don't want to take that up now.
12 MR. STULL: It's just I'm very versed in the
13 disability discrimination theories and whatnot that have
14 been my -- and my neurological condition, which is --
15 THE COURT: Right. I just --
16 MR. STULL: -- an invisible disability, so I --
17 THE COURT: -- I found --
18 MR. STULL: -- that's why I'm taking this approach.
19 THE COURT: Right. I just have found it always to
20 be a detriment to defendants to represent themselves. So
21 that's my -- I know you've heard that before, so I'm not
22 going to go over it again.
23 MR. STULL: Yeah.
24 THE COURT: But if you could have Francesconi as
25 your actual attorney, he's fantastic. I've had many cases

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
228
1 with him. He gets very good results for his clients. And I
2 think -- I would urge you to reconsider proceeding on your
3 own, but that's my last word on it.
4 MR. STULL: All right.
5 THE COURT: I will set it for 9:00 a.m. And maybe
6 your friend who's nodding could convince you of that.
7 But Thursday --
8 (Crash)
9 MR. STULL: I don't know what that was, sorry.
10 THE COURT: That's okay. That's the -- so
11 Thursday, 9:00 a.m. next week, back in Criminal Procedure
12 Court, just to set the dates for your trials.
13 MR. STULL: Okay.
14 THE COURT: So I'm sorry about the bridges.
15 MR. STULL: No, no, that's fine. I did call, so
16 that's as good as I could do.
17 THE COURT: Where did you call?
18 MR. STULL: Actually, I called the help desk at the
19 District Attorney's office --
20 THE COURT: Oh.
21 MR. STULL: -- who then forwarded me to, what they
22 told me was voicemail at this -- with your clerk here.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. STULL: And so I just checked my phone. It was
25 8:36.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
229
1 THE COURT: Okay. So maybe we just didn't get it.
2 MR. STULL: And that's when they announced the
3 train was -- that the bridge was up for a half hour. And by
4 the time I got off, they said it was a full hour, so --
5 THE COURT: All right. Well --
6 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. I'll see you
7 next --
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If you ran up to the office,
9 you would (indiscernible).
10 MR. STULL: No, I'll -- I'll see you next time
11 through.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. STULL: We're (indiscernible) for right now.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Yeah, I'm not sure what
15 happened, but --
17 THE COURT: Okay. All right.
18 MR. BOTTHOF: Thank you.
20 in Volume 17, June 30, 2016.)
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
230
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 14, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 231 - 235
______________________________________________________________

Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

Unknown

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
231
2 -O0O-
4 MR. STULL: Your Honor, Barry Joe Stull. I'm not
5 a member of the bar, so I didn't come up and get in line,
6 but --
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 MR. STULL: -- but it's my turn.
9 THE COURT: Okay. And how did you decide it was
10 your turn?
11 MR. STULL: I was waiting in line, but I didn't
12 come before the bar because I'm not a member of the bar.
13 THE COURT: Oh, you were keeping track --
14 MR. STULL: And I don't need to be reprimanded for
15 that again.
16 THE COURT: I'm not reprimanding, I'm just --
17 MR. STULL: You haven't, but I'm saying it's my
18 experience.
19 THE COURT: -- I'm just asking you what -- so --
20 MR. STULL: This gentleman knows that --
21 THE COURT: I see. So you reserved a -- I got you.
22 MR. STULL: I'm trying to be kind, Your Honor. I
23 have a case number.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 MR. STULL: 15CR53749.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
232
1 THE COURT: Yes.
2 MR. STULL: And I'm reading that from the back of
3 Mr. Kevin Kelley's business card. Apparently, he might be
4 assigned to be my legal advisor this morning.
5 THE COURT: Okay. And --
7 THE COURT: Yes. And you actually have two cases.
8 MR. STULL: Right. I didn't read the other one.
9 The other one's tracking with this one.
10 THE COURT: Yes. 15CR52961, yeah. Okay. And so
11 we had this on the docket, what, last week, I think?
12 MR. STULL: Right, just two.
13 THE COURT: Yeah, and so we needed to appoint a
14 new legal advisor.
16 THE COURT: And so we've done that now. And
17 you've met --
18 MR. STULL: I just met Mr. Kelley. I thought you
19 were going to tell me who it was and -- but --
20 THE COURT: Well, you met him beforehand. You're
21 way ahead of me this morning.
22 MR. STULL: Maybe -- I don't know how -- I don't
23 know, you're as surprised as I was that he's been assigned
24 to this case, but --
25 THE COURT: Oh, I'm --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
233
1 MR. STULL: -- here we are.
2 THE COURT: -- I'm not surprised.
3 All right. So all is good. You have your court --
4 you have the next dates on the case.
5 MR. KELLEY: I think we need dates, and I spoke
6 with the State about that.
7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's correct. I don't
8 have the bad dates, but I know the bad dates do go through
9 August at this point, Your Honor, and suggesting a trial
10 readiness date on the B docket relatively soon.
11 THE COURT: Okay. So a trial readiness date. So
12 that's a Friday. So how about Friday, July 15th? Does
13 that work for you?
14 MR. KELLEY: Yes.
15 THE COURT: All right. So we'll have on trial
16 readiness for Friday, July 15th, 9:00. You know how that
17 works, right?
18 MR. STULL: What room?
19 THE CLERK: The B docket.
20 MR. STULL: Oh, the B docket, so we don't know yet.
21 THE COURT: We don't know yet, yeah.
22 MR. STULL: Okay, all right.
23 THE COURT: But you know which docket. All right.
24 You know how to find out where to be, right? All right.
25 MR. STULL: All right, thank you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
234
1 MR. KELLEY: Thanks, Judge.
5 in Volume 18, July 15, 2016.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
235
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 14, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 236 - 238
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable LESLIE
ROBERTS, Judge of the Circuit Court, Friday, July 15, 2016 at
APPEARANCES

Unknown

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
236
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; FRIDAY, JULY 15, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: State of Oregon vs. Barry Joe Stull.
5 MR. KELLEY: Good morning, Your Honor. Kevin
6 Kelley, legal advisor for Mr. Stull. He is present in the
7 courtroom. He's got two cases. On the older of those
8 ending in 52961, we would ask for a trial date of
9 September 6th with a call on the 1st of September and
10 further proceedings on the 17th of August.
11 And on the more recent case ending in 53749, we
12 would ask for a trial on the 19th of September with call on
13 the 16th, and further proceedings on the 6th of September
14 when we'll be in court on the other matter.
15 Those dates are primarily because the State is
16 reporting not ready until mid-September on at least one of
17 them.
20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 9/1 for 9/16.
21 MR. KELLEY: The other case.
22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So in the case ending in
23 961, it's call 9/1 for a trial 9/6 since that's --
24 MR. KELLEY: No, you have those backwards. The
25 older --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
237
1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Right, right.
2 (Discussion between counsel.)
3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So the one ending in 961 is
4 call 9/1 for a trial on 9/6.
9 THE CLERK: 9/16?
11 (Pause)
12 THE CLERK: The 6th if a Friday, so --
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh, so it would be the
14 15th, yeah.
15 MR. KELLEY: 15th for call then?
16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: My apologies.
19 MR. KELLEY: 15th for the 19th on that one, please.
20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And the further proceeding
21 on 9/6 one would be 8/17. And the one ending in 749 would
22 be 9/6.
25 in Volume 19, August 17, 2016.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
238
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 15, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 239 - 240
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable CHERYL A.
ALBRECHT, Judge of the Circuit Court, Wednesday, August 17,
APPEARANCES

Unknown

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
239
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 17, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Ready to go on the record.
5 MR. KELLEY: Thank you. Kevin Kelley here as
6 legal advisor for Barry Joe Stull, who is with us today on
7 case 15CR52961. I believe we're here for a date check.
8 And the dates we have are (indiscernible).
9 THE COURT: Okay. And those dates are?
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They are still fine for the
11 State as well.
12 THE COURT: And those -- I read them into the
13 record.
14 MR. KELLEY: They are. We've got call on the 1st
15 of September and trial on the 6th of September.
16 THE COURT: Okay. So call on Friday, September 1st,
17 back in this courtroom at 8:30. And then trial to be set on
18 the 6th.
19 MR. KELLEY: Very good.
21 MR. KELLEY: Thank you very much.
22 (Proceedings adjourned at 9:01 a.m., recommencing in
23 Volume 20, September 6, 2016.)
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
240
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 15, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 241 - 296
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable KELLY
SKYE, Judge of the Circuit Court, Tuesday, September 6, 2016
APPEARANCES

1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
APPEARANCES (Continued)
FOR DEFENDANT DAVID K. DAVIS:
Christopher Marin, OSB #143804

Multnomah Defenders, Inc.
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 226-3083, x110
cmarin@multnomahdefenders.org

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
241
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Please be seated.
5 MR. McMAHON: And good morning. Eamon McMahon for
6 the State, M-c-M-a-h-o-n, Bar Number 153879. Here on a
7 joinder motion for two cases: 15CR53749 and 15CR53748.
8 Those are for Barry Joe stull and David Keith Davis. Motion
9 was filed with the Court, I believe on Thursday. I'm not
10 sure if Your Honor has a copy of that or not, but Mr. --
11 THE COURT: No. I have a Defendant's objection.
12 Did the State serve me with a copy of your motion?
13 MR. McMAHON: I don't know I served -- if I
14 e-Filed it. I have a copy here.
15 THE COURT: Okay. e-filing does not get it to the
16 Judge. You're required by the local rules to always serve
17 a printed copy to the trial judge.
18 MR. McMAHON: I apologize.
19 And Defendant Stull is present, as is counsel for
20 Mr. Davis, Chris Marin.
22 Kelley, legal advisor for Mr. Stull.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. STULL: Good morning, Your Honor. Barry Joe
25 Stull. I'm pro se --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
242
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. STULL: -- but Mr. Kelley's really doing the
3 work on this motion today.
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 MR. STULL: And then I'll put in my two cents when
6 it's appropriate.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. MARIN: Good morning, Judge. I'm Chris Marin,
10 M-a-r-i-n. My Bar Number's 143804, representing Mr. Davis.
11 Mr. Davis is aware of this hearing, but he's not present,
12 and I think we're okay going forward.
13 MR. McMAHON: Yeah, and we weren't requesting his
14 presence here. I think it was a waiver for his further
15 proceedings.
16 THE COURT: I'm sorry. So this is not set here
17 for trial; it's just here for this motion?
18 MR. KELLEY: The reason --
19 MR. McMAHON: Yeah -- sorry. There were two cases
20 with Mr. Stull. There's this joinder motion, and then
21 there's the trial. So this is a joinder motion that we --
22 I think we had talked about setting it this morning since
23 basically, you know, three-quarters of the people involved
24 would be here, just to address the joinder motion because
25 Mr. Stull's trial and the case to be joined is coming up

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
243
1 relatively soon, and we wanted to address that as early as
2 possible and today was the day that we do.
3 MR. KELLEY: Mr. Stull is set for trial before
4 Your Honor today on a single count of criminal trespassing
5 in the second degree.
6 He is also charged in a separate case with
7 multiple crimes, including trespass in the second degree.
8 That case is set for trial this month. And the State has
9 moved to join that case with Mr. Davis' case.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. KELLEY: So those are separate cases, but we
12 asked to put it on Your Honor's docket because most of the
13 parties were going to be here anyway regarding the joinder
14 motion.
15 THE COURT: All right. And what's the case number
16 for the trial today?
17 MR. McMAHON: That's 15CR52961.
18 MR. KELLEY: Yes.
19 MR. STULL: Your Honor, if I can correct your
20 language. It's not the trial today; it's the hearing on
21 the motion to join the cases.
22 MR. KELLEY: No, she wants to know the distinct
23 case numbers.
24 MR. STULL: Right. But -- but the trial today is
25 for not the case that this gentleman's talking to you about

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
244
1 today.
2 THE COURT: Right. That's why I was asking for
3 the case number for that so I can look it up while we're
4 doing this.
5 MR. STULL: But your language, Your Honor, was
6 trial, and today isn't the trial on that.
7 THE COURT: Right, okay.
8 MR. STULL: My trial is scheduled for the 19th of
9 September.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. STULL: So I'm just -- today we're having the
12 motion to join that --
14 MR. STULL: -- so it's a hearing today. So the
15 case number on that is, of course, what -- what he's giving
16 you. For the record.
17 THE COURT: Never mind. It doesn't matter.
18 Mr. McMahon, is the State's motion to join?
19 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. And as it's laid
20 out, just briefly. I apologize for not forwarding the
21 Court; that's my oversight.
22 Essentially what happened is these two cases
23 occurred on the same day, November 25th. And what happened
24 was, it was -- this is laid out in the motion -- but it was
25 -- an incident occurred at City Hall. Mr. Stull and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
245
1 Mr. Davis were both present. Mr. Stull was there speaking.
2 He had been -- trespassed the previous day for 24 hours,
3 returned to the chambers, was speaking. Had become
4 disruptive to the point where City Hall security staff had
5 actually shut down the council meeting and had been asking
6 him to leave. Mr. Stull refused to leave.
7 Mr. David was also present. Mr. Davis was
8 actually walking around filming much of this encounter.
9 What happened then was Mr. Stull and Mr. Davis
10 were both ordered to leave and told that if they did not
11 leave, they would be both arrested for trespassing.
12 Neither of them left. They were both taken into
13 custody for criminal trespass in the second degree.
14 Mr. Stull then struck an officer as he was being
15 taken into custody, which resulted in the attempted
16 assaulted of a public safety officer, and resisted arrest.
17 After he was taken into custody, he was placed in the back
18 of the squad car and began to kick violently and actually
19 snapped off some of the, I, believe, seat belt mounts in
20 the back of the police cruiser, which is why there's a
21 charge for criminal mischief in the second degree.
22 So it's the State's position that the law joinder
23 in Oregon is -- it favors joinder, especially in cases
24 where they are part of the same act or incident. Here,
25 they are part of the same act or incident. They involve

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
246
1 the same witnesses, the same video, the same exhibits, all
2 occurring at the same time in City Hall with the same
3 witnesses. They are part --
4 (Missing audio from 9:12:59 a.m. to 9:51:10 a.m.)
5 MR. KELLEY: -- to do so and to cross-examine
6 witnesses, make his opening statements, and handle his own
7 trial. That's what he's told me.
8 THE COURT: Okay. So, Mr. Stull --
9 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor, good morning.
10 THE COURT: -- we're here on 15CR52961.
12 THE COURT: You are representing yourself, pro so,
13 although you have your legal advisor here, Mr. Kelley. And
14 you are -- are you wanting a jury trial today?
15 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. However, I think, if
16 you'll give me a brief moment. We're starting this new case.
17 When we -- as I mentioned regarding the City Hall
18 case that -- I'm approaching this as a person with a
19 disability. And the defenses fall most squarely under State
20 vs. Marbet regarding criminal trespass and that's enforced
21 or, you know, how we interpret that language of that statute.
22 But the point is -- and somewhat for the purposes
23 of this process, the hearing as a person with a disability,
24 even though I'm pro se, I still have that. In 2006 or so,
25 the Oregon State bar, the Oregon Judicial Department had

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
247
1 the whole state process of addressing access to the court
2 with persons with disabilities, and I participated in that.
3 So what I'm trying --
4 THE COURT: Okay. So do you need an accommodation,
5 is that what you're saying?
6 MR. STULL: So -- yes and no. You'll learn about
7 my condition as we go. And so for the sake of judicial
8 efficiency, if I can inform you for the purposes of the
9 accommodations that I might need as you just inquired.
10 But more importantly, the defense and the trial,
11 and what I'm suggesting is, is once I make my position
12 statement, I'll say, when I get the facts of what's going on
13 here, my side of the story so to speak, once I get that in,
14 I think the State's going to dismiss, even this morning.
15 Because they don't understand -- and I'm sorry to have to be
16 the one to inform all you all about the language of our
17 disability statute, but I'm really unfortunately the
18 professional because I have to live and breathe these things
19 as a person with a disability, and as you might assume, an
20 invisible one where it's not apparent to outside observers.
21 So --
22 THE COURT: I have people with disabilities appear
23 in front of me all the time.
25 THE COURT: So I guess what you need to do is let

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
248
1 me know what the disability is --
2 MR. STULL: Right.
3 THE COURT: -- so that if a request for
4 accommodation comes along, I can make those accommodations
5 if it's doable. But we are going to have a trial and --
6 MR. STULL: Sure. But perhaps once -- like I
7 said, once I inform folks what's going on, what the
8 defenses are to this case, for example, the charges, which
9 we haven't discussed at all, perhaps the State will want to
10 dismiss. They don't have to prosecute this.
11 THE COURT: Well, here's the situation though.
12 We're here for trial.
14 THE COURT: If you had wanted to try to convince
15 the State to dismiss, the time for that was before now.
16 And I have to -- I'm tasked with getting this trial done
17 today --
19 THE COURT: -- so we don't have a trial to the DA
20 and then have another jury trial, we just -- I'm ready to
21 call for a jury.
23 THE COURT: But I do need to know what
24 accommodations you think that you will need.
25 MR. STULL: That's where I'll just tell you --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
249
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. STULL: -- first of all, my condition is a
3 neurological condition. It's the result of, in my case, a
4 spinal cord injury. The history was I had a car accident
5 in 1976 and I had back surgery in 1980. And the condition
6 that I have is a function of the passage of time, making
7 those changes within that damaged nervous system from those
8 long-ago events.
9 And the essence is, Your Honor, that I have a
10 rewired pain relay that's recording right now to my brain
11 that I have pain. And I'm receiving the message that I
12 have pain, but the original designed-at-birth mechanism to
13 have that message reach my brain that it hurts, that's not
14 the source of the pain. The source of the pain is the
15 product of the physiological changes within my central
16 nervous system, my brain and my spinal cord, which gives me
17 my diagnosis as Central Pain Syndrome.
18 And as I shared with both counsel, the Federal
19 Government, the National Institute of Health, has this
20 Central Pain Syndrome under the National Institute of
21 Health's National Institute of Strokes and Neurological
22 Disorders. So it's kind of like off the beaten track, if
23 you want to really, you know, delve into the fact, that
24 one, it's a neurological condition, which is the wiring.
25 So people think, oh, a back injury, oh, nerve damage, that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
250
1 means you're paralyzed and you can't move. No, it's really
2 -- it's really more like the car alarm going off, having
3 nothing to do with whether it can drive or how much gas is
4 in the tank or what they're legislate -- there's a pain
5 message that's going on.
6 And so for the purposes of this, when -- my
7 condition is based on adrenalin it feeds back, and then I
8 can have, as I've had -- my heart was 175 beats a minute
9 back at the emergency room in 2011 because the feedback
10 mechanism of the adrenalin.
11 So I'm better off to be cool and so you know, just
12 with my personality, my volume goes up --
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. STULL: -- as a part of the adrenalin. And
15 that could happen without me really being aware.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 MR. STULL: And since I am a trained public
18 speaker and a trained musician, singer, street performer, I
19 do marches and events where I do crowd control, I can be
20 really loud, professionally, so --
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 MR. STULL: -- so if I start to get loud as part of
23 your proceedings, you can give me the chance to dial that
24 down. I might not even know that's going on.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
251
1 MR. STULL: It's just sneaking up on me because we
2 always get butterflies in the stomach and those kind of
3 things.
4 THE COURT: Right.
5 MR. STULL: So as I said, I'm a professional.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 MR. STULL: Okay. So that being said, the defense
8 to this -- as it's going to be presented at trial, really
9 falls under the access to a public accommodation, which
10 would be the hospital. And their response, when I had the
11 interaction with their staff, in this case, it's going to
12 be the security guards I assume that they have on their
13 witness list that affected the citizen's arrest on
14 November 22nd, or it was right about midnight. So I'm not
15 sure of the actual -- it was Sunday night. So it was
16 really close to midnight Sunday night back in November. So
17 I'm not sure, is -- was the date the 22nd at the hospital?
18 MR. KELLEY: On or about the 22nd (indiscernible).
19 MR. STULL: Okay. So we're talking about
20 November 22nd.
21 So my defense, to kind of get this so you know and
22 the DA knows, to this falls under ORS 659A.142, which is the
23 access to public accommodations -- public accommodations,
24 which through the way the statutes point to other statutes
25 rules and those kinds of things, would be Emanuel Hospital.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
252
1 Similarly, because of the design, the Americans With
2 Disabilities Act also has Emanuel Hospital as a hospital
3 being under its protection regarding persons with
4 disabilities and access to public accommodation.
5 And if I want to make things really complicated, or
6 make them really simple, I would say that based on my own
7 Supreme Court case, Stull vs. Hoke, and how this filtered
8 out through the appellate cited by other cases, for example,
9 this calendar year, the Oregon Supreme Court cited Stull vs.
10 Hoke on a tax case. Had nothing to do with me.
11 So anyhow, in that, as Stull, I'm going to tell
12 you that this is where -- this is where we can make this
13 really simple or make it really complicated.
14 The language of the public accommodation and the
15 access by a person with a disability and all that lot to
16 affect their public policy to be against discrimination of
17 all sorts that on the list, they're prohibited. They're
18 called -- technically, they're called unlawful practices.
19 So the unlawful practice includes what Bureau of
20 Labor and Industries authorized by statute has done to
21 enforce that. And it would be including, actually, my access
22 in this court, because that -- although it's a state
23 government thing, it would still be covered under Bureau of
24 Labor and Industries if there was a civil rights violation.
25 Not for me, Your Honor, particularly. I'm just saying as to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
253
1 the underarching, overarching, you know, our environment.
2 The state public policy is reflected in the statute in how
3 that all works out, right.
4 The key word that can't be excised from the
5 language in both the Americans With Disabilities Act and
6 the corresponding ORS 659A and its enforcement through the
7 executive branch, chapter 839 administratively, use and
8 enjoyment.
9 So a person with a disability not only has the
10 ability to use the public accommodation, which would be the
11 state -- or not necessarily the state facility, but the
12 county, you go to the county fair in whatever county in
13 Oregon, that's a public accommodation under the law the way
14 we write the law.
15 And a person with a disability anyway has not only
16 the right to use that public accommodation, but the
17 language includes enjoy.
18 So we have to incorporate, unfortunately for Your
19 Honor it's a bad day because -- because of Stull vs. Hoke.
20 Once I as a party have called into question the
21 interpretation of the statute 659A.142, the Court's
22 obligation is to correctly interpret that statute, regardless
23 of the arguments of the parties or regardless if the parties
24 make any arguments at all because the Court has to get it
25 right.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
254
1 And if we look to whatever that is, ORS 174 or
2 somewhere in the tens or something, the Court can't omit
3 and can't insert. When we look at statutory language as it
4 comes down through, State vs. Gaines would cite Stull vs.
5 Hoke, which follows PGE vs. Bureau of Labor and Industries.
6 But what I'm saying is, I don't believe the State through
7 presenting their case in bringing in these witnesses can
8 say that the fellow who got out of the emergency room on
9 the way to the bus stop really had the opportunity to both
10 use and enjoy the public accommodation of the property of
11 Emanuel Hospital.
12 And what they're going to say is a security guard
13 tried to get me to use a fire exit instead of giving me the
14 reasonable -- I'll just say reasonable accommodation, but
15 that's not really -- that's a shorthand, Your Honor, I'm
16 going to try to expedite things -- I was going to the bus
17 stop, and they said I had to go up a fire exit, which is
18 certainly not the way that normal people, other people, any
19 people would be able to exit the property to the bus stop.
20 And by saying go out this door, still put me in the center
21 of the campus. I was no less, if they were trying to stop
22 trespassing --
23 THE COURT: So --
24 MR. STULL: -- I was no less a trespasser on one
25 side of the door than the other. I was just a person that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
255
1 was no longer in the shelter, but I was out in the cold.
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 MR. STULL: All right. So I'm saying that --
4 THE COURT: So, Mr. Stull, I have the gist of what
5 you're saying.
6 MR. STULL: Yeah.
7 THE COURT: And I have a couple questions.
8 MR. STULL: Yeah, go ahead.
9 THE COURT: One, you know --
10 MR. STULL: Please, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: -- 659A, I haven't even looked at it,
12 but I'm familiar with that series of statutes. It doesn't
13 provide a defense to a criminal act, okay.
14 MR. STULL: Yes, it does through Marbet.
15 THE COURT: It -- well, that requires -- but that's
16 not a defense; that's a constitutional challenge. And I
17 don't see one of those files here. A jury doesn't decide
18 constitutional issues; they decide factual issues.
20 THE COURT: Okay?
22 THE COURT: And if there is a legal challenge to
23 the application of this statute to you, that's something
24 that has to be raised in a separate motion. That's not
25 something that gets argued to the jury because the jury

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
256
1 doesn't get to decide what the constitution entitles a
2 person to or not. That's something that the Court does.
3 The jury decides facts --
4 MR. STULL: Exactly.
5 THE COURT: -- as they relate to a particular
6 offense, and then they apply the law that I give them, but --
8 THE COURT: -- the -- right.
9 MR. STULL: We're on the same page with that, Your
10 Honor.
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 MR. STULL: So if I could -- if I can further
13 enlighten after you make your point.
14 THE COURT: Well, I just -- I want to cut to the
15 chase of the trial, and I guess what I hear you saying is you
16 think that this statute provides a defense. It's not a
17 defense. It sounds like you have a constitutional challenge
18 to this criminal statute's application to you under the
19 circumstances. But that's not something that can be argued
20 to a jury. And so we need to sort that out. Because what a
21 jury gets to hear is the facts. The State presents whatever
22 their evidence is.
24 THE COURT: And you present whatever evidence you
25 have, if you want to. You don't have to.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
257
1 MR. STULL: Right.
2 THE COURT: And the jury decides what the facts
3 are, and they decide if a crime has occurred.
4 The constitutional challenge is something that
5 would need to be raised -- should have been raised pretrial.
6 But I can't instruct the jury on what a discrimination and
7 accommodation statute says and ask them to decide whether --
8 how that interplays with the criminal statute, because
9 that's just not that their province. That's a legal issue,
10 not a factual issue.
11 MR. STULL: However, just to let you know the
12 history of these -- my two cases (indiscernible), the one
13 that we just had earlier this morning.
14 THE COURT: Yeah, but I'm not dealing with that
15 one. I already --
16 MR. STULL: No, I'm just telling you --
17 THE COURT: -- covered that.
18 MR. STULL: -- about the procedural thing. I had a
19 two and a half hearing on these cases before Judge Bushong.
20 THE COURT: On this issue?
21 MR. STULL: On the totality of the issues. And he
22 was not -- as he said, he was not able to dismiss the
23 charges because he wasn't the factfinder.
24 THE COURT: Oh, is that what the motion to dismiss
25 was about? I mean, I didn't actually see a motion, but I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
258
1 did see a denial.
2 MR. STULL: There was -- yeah, whatever that was.
3 What are we talking, May or something? I'm not -- I'm not --
4 THE COURT: April. The Court denied Defendant's
5 motion to dismiss.
6 MR. STULL: Right. So that was about mid-April.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 MR. STULL: Yeah, I remember I had a subsequent
9 meeting on April 20th after that with one of the attorneys.
10 THE COURT: Were you involved in the case then,
11 Mr. Kelley?
12 MR. KELLEY: I was not, Your Honor.
13 MR. STULL: No.
14 MR. KELLEY: I am --
15 MR. STULL: And neither was -- excuse me, Your
16 Honor -- neither was opposing counsel this morning.
17 MR. KELLEY: I have not seen a written motion to
18 dismiss from the Defense. I have heard about that hearing.
19 I've seen the result of the hearing, but I haven't seen the
20 substance of the hearing. I was not his legal advisor at
21 that time.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 MR. KELLEY: I've come on relatively recently. I
24 think I'm the third one.
25 MR. STULL: So -- so, Your Honor, if I can kind of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
259
1 flush this out quickly.
2 Under the analysis of the Criminal Trespass Statute,
3 the case law dating from -- when's State vs. Marbet? When
4 was that --
5 MR. KELLEY: Got it right here.
6 MR. STULL: Maybe in the '70s, perhaps.
7 But the issue was on -- the defenses to the charges
8 of criminal trespass, and they had the elements of the crime
9 being that a person enters or remains, right, unlawfully?
10 THE COURT: Knowingly and unlawfully.
11 MR. STULL: In the order -- and the person that
12 says to leave has to be the person in charge. For example,
13 I couldn't have this gentleman trespass from this room
14 because I'm not the person in charge. So if I try to --
16 MR. STULL: -- and affected that through a
17 citizen's arrest, that wouldn't hold water because --
19 MR. STULL: -- I'm not the person in charge.
20 So that's all kind of set out in Marbet.
21 And interestingly enough -- and not so much because
22 it's about me being a person with a disability, as I
23 mentioned already -- but interestingly enough, when they
24 were talking about the Marbet case, they incorporated in the
25 Court of Appeals' opinion, that we now all have to follow,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
260
1 State vs. Marbet, I'm sure Mr. Kelley could give you the
2 case cite -- but the point I'm trying to make is, they use -
3 - for the lawful direction to leave, it has to be lawful.
4 So if that direction to leave violates some other provision
5 that makes the direction to leave illegal, unlawful, then
6 that trespass charge can't be prosecuted because it's barred
7 because one of the elements hasn't been met.
8 And they talked about a person with a disability
9 being in a restaurant and the other patron saying to the
10 restaurant owner that they're uncomfortable because of this
11 person with a disability, and how it would be illegal to use
12 a criminal trespass charge to remove that patron because it
13 would violate the protections of that person being afforded
14 protections as a person with a disability. So you can't use
15 that trespass as a pretext to violate the disability law.
16 Okay. So what we're faced with this morning, Your
17 Honor, is we don't have the facts that we really have to in
18 any case when you're interpreting -- and I'm very much
19 speaking broadly -- under the Americans With Disabilities
20 Act, or under the Oregon statutes, or -- everything is really
21 on a case-by-case basis dealing with a particular individual
22 and how their disability is manifested with all these various
23 things that are on the list. They have to go into double
24 alphabets on the list in the Oregon statutes because they --
25 it's like the rows in a theater where they get into row AA

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
261
1 and double -- they have to do that because there's so many
2 different concepts on the menu.
3 But my point is, is we have to have the facts of was
4 this Defendant -- at Emanuel Hospital this November 22nd --
5 was this Defendant a person with a disability? Was this
6 person identified as a person with a disability to the
7 security guards? Did they do what they're supposed to do
8 that's triggered by that as part of the process with the
9 arrest being one of the outcomes that I'm saying that process
10 would have prevented? So until we actually get the facts
11 about what took place, where was this, what happened here,
12 what was the request, what was the reasonable accommodation
13 or whatever we're saying that the statutes inform us what it
14 means.
15 And then there's also this -- this provision that's
16 a direct threat, that if somebody's a threat to the safety
17 and property, that kind of thing, is in the language, then
18 you don't have to do that reasonable accommodation stuff.
19 However, the assessment that it's a direct threat
20 is made after accommodations have been afforded, because if
21 that stuff's done, maybe there's other things.
22 THE COURT: Okay. So here's --
23 MR. STULL: So it's very complicated, so we need to
24 have a factfinder --
25 THE COURT: Well, here's the situation.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
262
1 MR. STULL: -- to have this --
2 THE COURT: We're going to call for a jury and get
3 this started, because otherwise, we're just going to sit and
4 talk all day and we don't have time to do that.
5 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, the State does have a
6 couple 104 motions I want us to take care of as a motion in
7 limine. They were very briefly.
8 Mr. Stull has this packet of medical documents.
9 The State's objecting to their admissibility on several
10 grounds.
11 First and foremost, hearsay. The admission of
12 those documents without the doctors actually wrote them and
13 can testify to their accuracy and the nature of the contents
14 of the statements made by the doctors in those reports,
15 they're inadmissible.
16 Now, secondly, the State's position that they're
17 simply not relevant. Mr. Stull, as he indicated here, is
18 very concerned with his Central Pain Syndrome. That is
19 beyond the scope of him saying, listen, I've -- you know,
20 was receiving emergency medical treatment per the scope of
21 the trespass request. That's not relevant to any material
22 issue in this case. Him discussing his lengthy history of
23 criminal cases, of his medical history, trying to introduce
24 to the jury a large packet of irrelevant medical documents.
25 THE COURT: Okay, stop. Do you have anything you

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
263
1 want to say about the admissibility of the medical records?
2 MR. KELLEY: Regarding the medical records, Your
3 Honor, we have had a discussion about those. And the State
4 is not objecting based on the authenticity, so we did not
5 need to subpoena them to the Court. We don't have a
6 certified copy. My understanding from Mr. McMahon is that
7 the State is not making that objection, but he is reserving
8 other objections. And Mr. --
9 THE COURT: Well, hearsay doesn't seem to apply.
10 There's a specific exception to the hearsay rule, correct?
11 MR. McMAHON: Well, I believe that specific
12 exception, it's statements for the purposes of medical
13 treatment. I believe that's the exception Your Honor's
14 referring to. It's statements made for the purpose of
15 medical treatment. Those are confined to statements by the
16 Defendant. I can (indiscernible) here, because essentially,
17 the reason of those statements are considered to be reliable
18 is because they're made by the Defendant or an individual
19 seeking medical treatment because essentially the idea is,
20 someone's not going to lie about what's wrong with them to a
21 doctor because they need medical treatment.
22 Let me find the specific citation.
23 THE COURT: I know what you're talking about.
24 MR. McMAHON: 803(4).
25 THE COURT: Mr. Kelley, what rule are you using to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
264
1 admit them?
2 MR. KELLEY: 803(4). The following are not
3 excluded. Statements for purposes of medical diagnosis or
4 treatment and describing medical history or past and present
5 symptoms, pain or sensations, or the inception or general
6 character of the cause of the external source insofar as
7 reasonably pertinent to diagnosis or treatment.
8 So we are not offering 300 pages of medical
9 documents, Your Honor. And I don't want to speak for
10 Mr. Stull here, but we certainly believe that his medical
11 diagnosis, because it's relevant also to how he was feeling
12 at the time. Present sense impression. That would be
13 another one that would apply, because he was under the
14 effect of that medical at the time of this incident, so he's
15 got medical records to demonstrate that.
16 MR. McMAHON: Mr. Kelley, that's not a hearsay
17 exception rule.
18 MR. KELLEY: Well, I'm sorry. Then where is it?
19 There is one that's similar.
20 MR. STULL: Your Honor, if I could kind of -- I've
21 been down this road before with this particular
22 (indiscernible) code of the medical -- the statements and
23 all that kind of stuff.
24 And I don't want to argue that, but it's my
25 impression that that is really for the speaker of the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
265
1 doctor's office --
2 THE COURT: Right.
3 MR. STULL: -- not for the fact that we can bring
4 those in later.
5 The important -- the important thing is, is we do
6 have -- we do have specific hearsay exceptions, but the
7 overarching Oregon Evidence Code is the interest of the
8 justice, and the relevant evidence will be admissible if
9 it's not prejudicial and those kind of things. So I'm aware
10 of the language of that.
11 But there are a couple of catchalls.
12 THE COURT: Right. I'm --
13 MR. STULL: There's kind of -- at the end of the
14 numbering system. But there's like any other thing that --
15 so there's kind of a catchall.
17 MR. STULL: So the important thing -- and I
18 mentioned it this morning, Your Honor -- the important thing
19 for me as a defendant is that I went to the emergency room at
20 the main hospital any number of times, but, you know, that's
21 kind of like the home base for me as I want to get in the
22 ambulance because my records are there and the experiences
23 were there.
24 But I had treatment in October 2011 where my pulse
25 was 175 beats a minute.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
266
1 THE COURT: Is that the records that you're seeking
2 to admit?
3 MR. STULL: That particular event on, I believe it
4 was the 15th of October 2011, where my pulse was 175 beats a
5 minute as a product of my neurological condition. So when
6 you're sitting here today hearing me do this kind of stuff or
7 whatever I was doing yesterday, that's not -- that's not just
8 175 beats a minute and 45 minutes to prevent circulatory
9 failure. So that's the follow that I am. That's my
10 episodic, the worst example I can give you on my life where I
11 was actually at the place being monitored and they --
12 THE COURT: So that's what --
13 MR. STULL: So --
14 THE COURT: -- those are the records that are being
15 offered, and they're being offered for the purpose for
16 showing that he's had this condition in the past, or he's
17 been diagnosed with it?
18 MR. STULL: Oh, I still have it.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 MR. STULL: And I go to the emergency room for
21 that. And that event was for my Central Pain Syndrome, the
22 three words that we were calling this really complicated to
23 understand neurological condition that most people don't
24 know what it is, Your Honor. And that's --
25 THE COURT: Well, I understand that. And those --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
267
1 MR. STULL: -- it's not rare. I mean, it's not
2 unique. It's not really common. There's hundreds of people
3 probably with Central Pain. I talked to a guy yesterday
4 that had Central Pain.
5 THE COURT: Yeah.
6 MR. STULL: So it's not like we're -- but we're not
7 obviously folks with service animals, dogs or wheelchairs,
8 or anything -- walkers. It's not that, but it --
9 THE COURT: I hear you.
10 MR. STULL: -- still is a disability.
11 THE COURT: I hear you, but generally --
12 MR. STULL: Yeah.
13 THE COURT: -- you know, if -- I thought the
14 medical records were from this particular incident. No?
15 MR. STULL: And there are also. I was treated --
16 this arrest happened after my --
18 MR. STULL: -- emergency room visit --
19 THE COURT: Okay. So that's my question.
20 MR. STULL: -- on that date.
21 THE COURT: So did he go to the emergency room and
22 he was treated and then --
23 MR. STULL: For the diagnosis, three words --
25 MR. STULL: -- Central Pain Syndrome. The

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
268
1 description of the diagnosis, three words, Central Pain
2 Syndrome.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. STULL: And that was the Sunday -- we're calling
5 it November 22nd -- and the Friday, on the 20th, I was
6 treated at Emanuel Hospital emergency department for, three
7 words, Central Pain Syndrome diagnosis and description;
8 again, Central Pain Syndrome.
9 So I left there on Friday with the exit -- in the
10 medical records, it says they provided me the information,
11 return if conditions worsen.
12 Sunday was the return of that. And between the
13 emergency room and the doorway, I was arrested by security
14 for trespassing.
15 THE COURT: On Sunday?
16 MR. STULL: November 22nd.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. STULL: So instead of getting to the bus and
19 going home, I went to jail.
20 THE COURT: Okay. So the records --
21 MR. STULL: And that's the charge, yeah.
22 THE COURT: -- themselves, what's the date range on
23 the records?
24 MR. McMAHON: His has stuff going back as far as
25 '93, I think.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
269
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. STULL: Just to kind of flush things out, Your
3 Honor. My neurologist, Dr. Grimm, he's the one who arranged
4 my back surgery back in 1980.
5 THE COURT: Right. Here's the situation though.
6 MR. STULL: And --
7 THE COURT: You don't --
8 MR. STULL: Yeah.
9 THE COURT: You don't get to, in lieu of a witness,
10 introduce a bunch of records, okay. If there are records
11 that are related to this incident, then those may be
12 admissible.
14 THE COURT: But your past medical records
15 establishing your medical condition are not going to be
16 admissible for a whole bunch of reasons.
17 MR. STULL: Well, they have -- excuse me, Your
18 Honor. They have to be in order for me to have my defense
19 under Marbet.
20 THE COURT: Well -- but, you know what, we have the
21 Rules of Evidence, which require live testimony. We don't
22 get to just -- we don't try cases by documents.
23 MR. STULL: Well, Your Honor, we have to, because
24 two things -- and don't let me get sick by this, because
25 this is not a healthy environment for me to have to embrace

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
270
1 this. I'm the guy that -- I'm going to be frank with you.
2 I went to the ambulance by emergency room [sic] and I'm here
3 today. I went to the emergency room by ambulance and I'm
4 here today. I want shed of this entire thing.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. STULL: I am sick of it. I am sick from it and
7 it's unending. Because, as I mentioned, I had a two-hour
8 hearing before Judge Bushong, and I'm the only person in the
9 room that endured that, and that was me, going to the
10 emergency room by ambulance November 22nd and not getting
11 out of yet. So I don't want to make my career out of this,
12 because these fellows get paid. You're all getting paid. I
13 don't get paid. I get hassled on my way here by the fare
14 inspection. Okay. So I'm sick of this. I'm sick from it.
15 I want to put it to rest.
16 And I'm saying is, as a person with a disability,
17 how can I affect justice if the defense to my criminal
18 charges if they insist on prosecuting. Think of all the
19 people they dismiss cases --
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. STULL: Wait. If my defense is that I have a
22 medical condition --
24 MR. STULL: -- and I can't defend myself because my
25 medical records aren't available, and my witness that I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
271
1 subpoenaed, my neurologist quashed a subpoena successfully
2 this calendar year, and my document to get my medical
3 records with my court-appointed legal assistant, Bryan
4 Francesconi, he altered that document after I signed it.
5 And I do not have those witnesses. And I do not have those
6 medical records.
7 And what we do have is, as this gentleman said, a
8 stack of proof that I'm a sick guy, and I'm saying right now
9 that you are making me sick not because I don't believe you
10 are absolutely the kindest person I could take this in front
11 of you, but you're making me sick because you're asking me
12 to do the impossible. And I'm the person with a disability
13 that had my bus pass in my pocket. And instead of getting
14 outside in my gym shorts and t-shirt, I got taken to jail,
15 and I got out of jail at 2:00 in the morning where I
16 couldn't even get transit. It's 38 degrees outside, and I'm
17 still here today because they insist on prosecuting this.
18 So what I'm saying is, this is all under your
19 purview, Your Honor, because once I invoke that I am
20 protected for the purpose of this hearing, and also for the
21 purpose for the defense for Emanuel Hospital under the
22 statute, ORS 659A.142, that makes it out of my hands. The
23 Court has to correctly interpret the statute, regardless of
24 arguments of the party. And it's preserved for appeal. So I
25 don't care if I have to take --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
272
1 THE COURT: Right.
2 MR. STULL: -- ten years to go through the process
3 to get out of the emergency room November 22nd, but they
4 dragged me into it, and they will not let go under any
5 accord.
6 So here's my defense. I'm going to get the
7 security guards to come in here and I'm going to say, here's
8 the map. Here's the door. Why couldn't I go out the door?
9 Why wouldn't you let me go home?
10 THE COURT: Okay. Well --
11 MR. STULL: And they're not going to have a reason.
12 And they --
13 THE COURT: -- I'm wondering if we're going to get
14 to that point at this --
15 MR. STULL: -- only have one reason, and I'm going
16 to tell you what that reason is. That reason is they know
17 that if they lie and they prosecute me, and they send me to
18 jail, and I get out at 3:00, 2:30 in the morning at 38
19 degrees wearing my gym shorts and t-shirt, and I won't be
20 able to get a MAX home until 5:00 in the morning, then I'll
21 have to come back to court and I'll be talking about it
22 September 6, 2016, and they're still going to be at Emanuel
23 Hospital being the people that I show --
24 THE COURT: Well -- no, we need to resolve this
25 today.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
273
1 MR. STULL: -- who they are. So my point is, I
2 need to have my medical defense because it's valid. I have
3 a subpoena for my neurologist. That was quashed. I do have
4 his statement.
5 THE COURT: Were you --
6 MR. STULL: And we can't --
7 THE COURT: What was the basis of quashing the
8 neurologist's subpoena?
9 MR. KELLEY: The neurologist submitted a
10 declaration or an affidavit indicating he didn't remember
11 treating Mr. Stull. He was willing to submit a report in
12 lieu of personally attending. And this was prior to me
13 being on the case, but my understanding is the Court quashed
14 that subpoena.
15 THE COURT: Was there a hearing on that?
16 MR. STULL: Yes.
17 THE COURT: What?
18 MR. STULL: It was before Judge Roberts.
19 MR. KELLEY: Regarding the medical records though,
20 I would note that he's got some records from a Dr. Grimm,
21 who has previously been, I believe, his primary care
22 physician. Dr. Grimm has passed away. He is unavailable by
23 any stretch of the imagination.
24 MR. STULL: Which is a --
25 MR. KELLEY: There are several hearsay exceptions

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
274
1 that might apply.
2 MR. STULL: (Indiscernible) that.
3 MR. KELLEY: Those could include then existing
4 mental, emotional or physical condition. That's the one
5 that I was trying to think of, 803(3). And there's also
6 statements made in a professional capacity, 804(3). He's
7 got records from that doctor. I've seen his obituary.
8 And I think the crux of his defense is that he
9 wants the jury to know that he suffers from Central Pain
10 Syndrome. This occurred at a hospital where he was seeking
11 treatment for that condition. It doesn't make his entire
12 health history admissible, of course, but we do think that
13 that --
14 THE COURT: Was he planning to testify?
15 MR. STULL: I'm planning to testify, certainly.
16 THE COURT: Okay. Well, then, he can testify to
17 that. And inasmuch as is necessary to admit the medical
18 record -- of course, I haven't seen them -- from that
19 emergency room visit where he says this is why I'm here and
20 this is what my symptoms are, that would be relevant. It's
21 the historical part of your medical record that is -- is not
22 admissible. But you can certainly testify to it and -- and
23 you'll have the records to prove that you were there for an
24 emergency room visit.
25 MR. STULL: If I could give you my brief history

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
275
1 with Emanuel Hospital Emergency.
2 The security guards arrested me on October 14,
3 2011, after I got out of the emergency room. That report --
4 their report on the incident is part of the discovery I got
5 from the District Attorney's office.
6 THE COURT: Right. But I would never let the State
7 bring that up --
8 MR. STULL: Well, I have to bring that up, Your
9 Honor.
10 THE COURT: -- and that's --
11 MR. STULL: Because here's what happened. I went
12 to the emergency room by ambulance October 14th. I got out.
13 A security guard arrested me as I was drinking my coffee
14 that I bought there at the café. They arrested me. That
15 was the 14th. On the 15th, I returned, had that episode
16 that I mentioned twice this morning already, I can recall,
17 175 beats a minute, my pulse, and it's requiring exclusive
18 critical care.
19 In fact, when I got arrested by Emanuel Hospital
20 security on the 14th of October, 2011, I get sent to jail,
21 returning to the same emergency room the next day because my
22 pulse was 175 beats a minute, and I could have died.
23 Well, as you can imagine, the District Attorney
24 didn't prosecute that arrested at Emanuel Hospital the
25 previous day, but Emanuel Hospital security never got the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
276
1 memo. So they're acting like I'm still the same guy and
2 they've been doing this for years, and it's a roulette for
3 me, whereas, I mentioned, I went in on a Friday, November,
4 treated, out, no problem. Went in on Sunday, and I'm here
5 talking about it still.
6 THE COURT: Yeah.
7 MR. STULL: So it's the security guard thing, one,
8 arresting me back in 2011, which triggered that outrageous
9 event of 175 beats a minute. Because I was in the emergency
10 room. I was on my way out. I was a citizen drinking
11 coffee. They arrested me. Went back the next day with this
12 extraordinary life-threatening event, which --
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. STULL: -- informs my very being today, Your
15 Honor, because I know that's --
16 THE COURT: Mr. McMahon.
17 MR. STULL: -- what my disability's capable of
18 doing.
19 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. So the issue here
20 is that the State is intending to offer the contact report
21 from 2011, the reason being because that was the trespass
22 notice that -- essentially, there are two rounds for
23 trespass (indiscernible), previously trespassed, and that he
24 refused to follow the instructions on this case. He was
25 trespassing with a written trespass warning notice by Legacy

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
277
1 Emanuel security personnel on October 14, 2011. The State
2 does intend to offer that as a predicate basis for the
3 trespass in this case.
4 MR. KELLEY: We will be objecting as hearsay, Your
5 Honor.
6 MR. McMAHON: I --
7 MR. KELLEY: I don't believe it's public record,
8 and I don't think the custodian of records was present
9 either.
10 MR. McMAHON: I have the guy who trespassed and the
11 original card.
12 MR. KELLEY: That is not the custodian of the
13 record.
14 MR. STULL: Well, wait a minute. This is --
15 THE COURT: If it's the guy who handed it to him.
16 MR. STULL: -- let me get my -- let me get this in
17 there. No, I want them to sway that they arrested me on
18 October 14, 2011.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 MR. STULL: I also want to be able --
21 THE COURT: Sounds like they're willing to do that.
22 MR. STULL: No. But I want to be able to say that
23 the District Attorney couldn't prosecute that arrest.
24 MR. McMAHON: And that I would object to being --
25 THE COURT: Well, that part is different.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
278
1 MR. STULL: Wait. And then after I got out of jail
2 for what couldn't be prosecuted because they knew who
3 committed the crime.
4 THE COURT: They don't prosecute a lot of things --
5 MR. STULL: I'm the guy that went through this.
6 THE COURT: -- for all different reasons.
7 MR. STULL: Once I was arrested, I knew it was
8 illegal at the time of the arrest. Look, I don't cause
9 trouble; I step up to it. So, no, I am not a troublemaker,
10 I'm a trouble stopper.
11 Okay. So the point is, these people acted illegally
12 back in October 14, 2011. They violated my rights, the same
13 ones I'm saying right now under ORS 659A.142, public
14 accommodation. They violated my rights to a person with a
15 disability, created this trespass exclusion, I went to jail.
16 Went back that next day. My pulse was 175 beats a minute,
17 requiring 45 minutes of exclusive critical care to prevent
18 circulatory failure. I could have died, okay. So --
19 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, if I may interrupt, Your
20 Honor.
21 MR. STULL: -- if they're going to say that they
22 arrested me --
23 MR. McMAHON: I --
24 MR. STULL: -- I want to say, yes, it was a bogus
25 arrest --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
279
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. STULL: -- and it caused me to go back to the
3 hospital the next day.
4 THE COURT: How many days is this trial set out
5 for?
6 MR. McMAHON: Two, I believe.
7 MR. STULL: I just want to say that, yeah --
8 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor --
9 MR. STULL: -- they could have killed me by their
10 BS arrest instead of just --
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 MR. STULL: -- letting me get out of the hospital.
13 THE COURT: We need to get started with the trial.
14 MR. STULL: Okay. I'm defending my case.
15 MR. McMAHON: I understand, Your Honor. I would
16 just ask, Your Honor, that Defendant be instructed not to
17 reference the public accommodations issue since it's not an
18 issue. The jury's going to be able to hear it's prior
19 medical treatment outside of these two issues. Disabilities
20 in general, I think that that's not germane to the issues
21 that are here. And I think that if the jury hears that,
22 it's improper for them to address that.
23 MR. STULL: Your Honor, this is sickening. I'm
24 taking a brief one-minute break. Honestly, I cannot endure
25 this. This is absolutely the problem in this city.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
280
1 THE COURT: Okay, go take a walk around the floor
2 and come back. Would you do that?
3 MR. STULL: I'm going to do this, but I'm going
4 to --
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. STULL: -- I'm going to express this. They are
7 actually violating my civil rights by insisting on
8 prosecuting this. And I'm not going to allow as a person
9 with a disability, them to continue to say that my medical
10 records don't matter because they matter as far as --
11 THE COURT: They're not saying they don't matter.
12 MR. STULL: -- they're concerned. No, they matter
13 because I can sue this gentleman in Federal Court across the
14 park for violating my rights under article -- under the
15 Americans With Disabilities Act, Title II, because he is a
16 public accommodation right now offering a service --
17 THE COURT: Well, and here's this --
18 MR. STULL: -- and they won't stop, and it's making
19 me sick, so I'm going to take, like I said, one minute.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. STULL: But I'm putting them all -- I'm putting
22 you all on notice. This has to stop.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead and take a minute.
24 MR. STULL: I'm not going to go to the --
25 THE COURT: Let's --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
281
1 MR. STULL: -- emergency room from here today
2 because I cannot shed myself from these things that are
3 physically sickening to me, because I'm a person with a
4 disability. And they will not dismiss this case. And
5 you're saying that I can't reference that I could have died
6 in 2011, because of the Evidence Code? I certainly could
7 have died, and I could die today --
8 THE COURT: Sir --
9 MR. STULL: -- if I don't stop this.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Go take a break.
11 MR. STULL: I'm going to take my break.
13 MR. STULL: But he has discretion --
14 THE COURT: Go --
15 MR. STULL: -- to not prosecute this.
16 THE COURT: Go ahead and take a break.
17 MR. STULL: And he insists -- and he's going at the
18 expense of my civil rights and he knows it now.
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 MR. STULL: I am not going to put up with this
21 again.
23 MR. STULL: I'm going to win. I'm going to win by
24 going and cooling my jets.
25 THE COURT: Okay, go ahead. Let's go off the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
282
1 record.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
5 MR. McMAHON: Good morning. Eamon McMahon for the
6 State, M-c-M-a-h-o-n, Bar Number 153879. We are still on
7 the record in the case of Barry Joe Stull, 15CR52961.
8 Defendant's present, representing himself pro se, out of
9 custody, assisted by legal counsel, Mr. Kelley.
10 MR. KELLEY: Your Honor, I have discussed the
11 posture of the case at this point with Mr. Stull. And we
12 discussed his desire to have his claims regarding his
13 disability heard. And that the Court would like to see
14 those in writing in the form of a demur. And I've explained
15 to Mr. Stull it will take time to do that.
16 So in order to properly preserve his defenses and
17 present that defense to the Court, I am asked -- well, we
18 would like some time to do that. I don't want to be here --
19 I don't want Mr. Stull's case to come back because he didn't
20 get to present a defense that he wanted to present.
21 So with that being said, I'm also hopeful that
22 perhaps when his more serious cases resolve, the State may
23 change its feelings about this one. I don't know.
24 Ms. Plank, who was here, wasn't willing to commit to that,
25 but I suppose it's a possibility. In that case, it's set for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
283
1 trial only on the 19th of this month.
2 THE COURT: Okay. And are you working with him on
3 that case as well?
4 MR. KELLEY: I am also his legal advisor on that
5 one. He is his own attorney on both of these cases.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 MR. KELLEY: But he does wish to have the defenses
8 he's raised heard. And my understanding from the Court is
9 that they should be filed in the form of a demur and in
10 writing, and of course, filed and give the State a chance to
11 respond to them.
12 MR. McMAHON: And, Your Honor, it's the State's
13 position that these are the perils of representing yourself
14 pro se. This is why the advisement is given. Claims,
15 again, like regarding a demur or disability are not
16 appropriate at this point in time. The Oregon Rules of
17 Criminal Procedure (indiscernible) specific name, but
18 indicate that such motions must be filed 20 days before the
19 trial date, not raised the day of.
20 And I think moreover, any such claims, in
21 particular, demur, are not an appropriate method of recourse
22 in this case. I think a demur looks at the document on its
23 four corners and observes whether or not the charging
24 instrument could possibly state the facts. And criminal
25 trespass -- so essentially, we'd have to look at the document

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
284
1 and say whether or not criminal trespass could be an offense.
2 And I don't think Mr. Stull's claims about disability --
3 THE COURT: Well, we're not arguing about whether
4 the demur's the appropriate procedural mechanism to get the
5 issue before the Court. That's something for Mr. Kelley to
6 think about.
7 I was merely saying that we can't argue the effect
8 -- the legal effect of the disability statutes to a jury.
9 And so that -- that piece need to be argued to the Court.
10 Now, whether that needs to be argued, you know, as
11 an MJLA, or as post-verdict motion, I don't know. It's
12 going to take some thought. I just saw the way that this
13 was framing up to be something that Mr. Stull perhaps
14 thought was going to be argued to a jury, which isn't -- the
15 legal issues have to be decided by a judge. But this would
16 give you some more time to figure that out. Okay?
17 MR. STULL: Your Honor, if I can keep this from
18 having to come back at any point and retread the same
19 ground, I think the problem with this analysis is that we,
20 one, have to have the case-by-case basis analysis of those
21 elements that create the disability law interactions and all
22 those kinds of things. That has to be based on facts.
23 And so if we don't have a factual finding of did
24 this person at this time say this or do this or not do that,
25 if we don't have that factual historical, you know, event,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
285
1 then we can't do the analysis that would talk about whether
2 the law of disability protection, I'll say, would even lie,
3 whether it would be appropriate to use it.
4 So where we've got this catch-22 is, as Judge
5 Bushong mentioned, he's not the factfinder, so we have to
6 have somebody who's a factfinder -
7 THE COURT: Right.
8 MR. STULL: -- which is going to need the
9 testimony.
10 So, for example, and this may be true, but it's a
11 -- hypothetically, I saw I'm a person with a disability and
12 the security guard says, I don't remember you saying that,
13 well, at least we have that. And then somebody could say,
14 well, this person's more believable than the other, but we
15 would at least have that on the record, that that interchange
16 took place.
17 THE COURT: And the other part of the issue --
18 MR. STULL: So someone -- excuse me -- so I'm
19 wondering when you all -- because this is not my purview,
20 certainly -- when you all are going to get that opportunity
21 to have those witnesses because my understanding is if we
22 have the trial today, you wouldn't allow that filtering
23 process to see if we should even have to charge because that
24 has to be raised prior to trial, but you can't have those
25 issues decided without the facts.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
286
2 MR. KELLEY: It is possible to stipulate to
3 relevant facts.
4 MR. McMAHON: Perhaps we could do a bench trial,
5 and that way we wouldn't have to be objecting to it. And
6 I'm sure Your Honor could parse the facts out as, you know,
7 we wouldn't -- I wouldn't be having to object because I'm
8 sure Your Honor would -- well, I would raise my objections,
9 but I don't think we would risk the same (indiscernible)
10 tried in front of front of a jury in terms of, you know,
11 discussion about prior medical events and that sort of a
12 thing.
13 MR. STULL: And that would be asking me to give up
14 my constitutional rights to a jury trial, which would be a
15 disability of discrimination because that would create for
16 the persons -- purpose of a person with a disability doing a
17 constitutional challenge to the charge. They wouldn't be
18 able to do it because they have to give up their right to a
19 jury trial. So --
20 THE COURT: Right. I'm not asking you to give up
21 your right to a jury trial. But I am asking you to put some
22 more time in to, inasmuch as there's fact finding, you will
23 have to establish that you're a person with a disabilities,
24 and it can't be done through hearsay. You really need to
25 figure out how to do that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
287
1 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I have been working --
2 THE COURT: Okay?
3 MR. STULL: -- on this diligently --
4 THE COURT: Okay.
5 MR. STULL: -- since November 22, 2015.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 MR. STULL: And the fact that they're doing what
8 the rest of us would call it tag team match where I get
9 another attorney, I get another prosecutor. I've been
10 working at this the whole time. You're the -- one, two,
11 three -- you're the sixth judge I've seen on this case.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. STULL: So what happened today? Imagine me
14 having to do this outburst because I've actually been in
15 front of -- excuse me, I misspoke -- probably seven
16 different judges on this case. And I'm coming from the
17 philosophy, legally and otherwise, that, no, you never even
18 are allowed to bring me into this process.
19 So I'm not finding a very good way to get out of
20 it. Here I am today. I was expected to be able to say,
21 look, I was supposed to be to do this and that and the
22 other, and the jury says, yeah, you're right, and I'm out of
23 here. I can't do that because we're going through all this,
24 do you want to legal up.
25 And what I'm trying to say is as much -- and I said

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
288
1 this privately here -- as much as we're talking about the
2 Oregon Evidence Code prevents the medical records, I'm
3 saying, no, no, ORS 659A.142 prevents all of this stuff
4 where it even has this discussion about the medical records
5 because --
6 THE COURT: So those are all issues that you need
7 to work out, talk with Mr. Kelley about --
8 MR. STULL: And how could I --
9 THE COURT: -- because they're all the same issues
10 in the next case, right?
11 MR. STULL: Exactly. And I've been --
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. STULL: -- like I said, it's a late date for
14 me, but I've been working on this --
15 THE COURT: So that's why you'll --
16 MR. STULL: -- diligently the whole time.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. STULL: When I was in custody, Your Honor, I
19 raised the exact same defenses that I'm talking about here
20 today. This has not changed in my mind. It has not changed
21 in my analysis, the case law and the statutes.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 MR. STULL: And what -- the only thing I'm doing is
24 I'm just getting -- beating up against the same wall of
25 who's going to actually consider these things.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
289
1 MR. McMAHON: And, Your Honor, just for the record,
2 I do want to -- or the State would oppose any set over.
3 This is, I believe the second or third trial setting where
4 State's been ready to go. Mr. Stull -- I understand because
5 (indiscernible) failed to appear at the first one. We're
6 back here. Our witnesses are ready to go on the second one.
7 And as Mr. Stull puts out, it's a ten-month-old
8 case. It's the sort of thing where these are issues I
9 understand he's had motions in front of Judge Bushong
10 before, but at this point, it's a very old case. Our
11 witness is here. The State would ask to proceed, but I
12 understand if the Court would --
13 THE COURT: I hear what you're saying. And for a
14 lot of different reasons, including that he's got another
15 case that's far more serious than this, and the fact that
16 some of the issues weren't teed up for this case, I am going
17 to grant a set over for this to follow the other case. And
18 that -- that other case was set for call on what day?
19 MR. STULL: It's set for trial on the 19th --
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. STULL: -- ultimately of September.
22 THE COURT: So what do you propose?
23 MR. STULL: I think that's right.
24 MR. McMAHON: I think we should probably have the
25 week after that. That might -- that trial might take a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
290
1 while.
2 MR. KELLEY: I show call on the 15th with trial on
3 the 19th for that one. That's what I --
4 THE COURT: Okay. So then call on the 22nd for
5 trial on the 26th for the next one?
6 MR. McMAHON: Are we going to set a trial date, or
7 are we going -- because I think if -- I think -- well, I
8 think what might be appropriate is essentially establish a
9 framework for the issues that Mr. Stull potentially is --
10 like a briefing deadline on a given date and then set a
11 further proceedings like after that so the State can have
12 adequate time to react and respond to that brief. And so
13 maybe set a further proceeding just the week of that 26th so
14 we can pick dates. Would that be appropriate?
15 MR. KELLEY: I am setting another trial in this
16 courthouse on the 26th. I don't object to a further
17 proceeding --
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 MR. KELLEY: -- but I don't have time for another
20 trial that date.
21 THE COURT: Further proceedings on which day?
22 MR. KELLEY: The 26th.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 MR. KELLEY: And I would just ask --
25 THE COURT: There's no CPC docket on the 26th, so

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
291
1 it would have to be the 27th.
2 MR. KELLEY: The 27th, would that work?
3 MR. McMAHON: And I would just ask that the Court
4 -- well, I would ask that some form of like deadline or like
5 some timeframe be set so that we can get the motions and
6 really get this thing moving. I think --
7 THE COURT: Okay. Today's the 6th. Well, I guess
8 -- I mean, is it going to be the same issues in the other
9 trial?
10 MR. KELLEY: I believe he intends to raise the same
11 defense. Is that fair to say, Mr. -- to some extent.
12 MR. STULL: I mean, yeah --
13 MR. KELLEY: I mean, there's mixed defenses, but --
14 MR. STULL: Yeah, generally speaking. We're still
15 going to the fact that how do you handle a person with a
16 disability --
18 MR. STULL: -- at a public accommodation, which
19 includes a government office or a hospital.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. KELLEY: Well, and then the issue becomes then
22 at that point, we run into the same thing where if we're
23 going to have a written brief on that case and it's set a
24 week from today or wherever that is --
25 THE COURT: Well, that's -- that's --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
292
1 MR. McMAHON: I can get these things filed within a
2 week.
3 MR. McMAHON: Okay.
4 THE COURT: Okay. So today is the 6th. A week is
5 the 13th. Is that okay?
6 MR. KELLEY: Is that acceptable to you?
7 THE COURT: And then you can look into what the
8 appropriate -- I mean, if you still maintain it's a jury
9 issue, then I guess it would be a draft jury instruction
10 with arguments why it is a jury issue. I just am not
11 thinking it's a jury issue.
12 MR. KELLEY: The Defense believes it can raise
13 constitutional claims at any time. We could raise it in a
14 motion for judgment of acquittal. But for clarity and to
15 try and really put our finger on these issues, we're
16 certainly willing to file them pretrial.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. KELLEY: Yeah.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Well, and the effect of 659A.142
20 isn't necessarily a constitutional issue. It -- you know,
21 your client, Mr. Stull, is claiming that it's a statutory
22 interpretation issue. But how that interplays with the
23 criminal case is the issue that needs some thought.
24 MR. STULL: Yeah, Your Honor, excuse me. If I can
25 make sure that we're kind of thinking on the same analysis.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
293
1 The -- following Marbet, the criminal trespass
2 statute, it has to be a lawful order, right? That's --
3 that's the --
4 THE COURT: And so you want to argue that it's not
5 a lawful order because you're disabled and you have a right
6 to use and enjoy the hospital?
7 MR. STULL: In essence, that's kind of where I'm
8 just saying that to challenge the lawfulness of the order,
9 you have to determine if the actions were lawful or unlawful
10 and if they violated the provisions that we're talking about
11 them --
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. STULL: -- 659A.142 and those kinds of things
14 and the ADA.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 MR. STULL: Then they're not lawful, and then they
17 -- then the trespass --
18 THE COURT: And then the other issue you have to
19 think about is how you're going to prove the medical
20 disability, so --
21 MR. STULL: Right. And so --
22 THE COURT: -- and that's -- and that issue's going
23 to be in play in your next trial too. So that gives you
24 time to work that one out as well.
25 MR. STULL: And then it comes to the issue of the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
294
1 destroyed records from Emanuel, which would be like the exit
2 paperwork?
3 THE COURT: My guess is that can be subpoenaed. I
4 mean, your copy was destroyed, but --
5 MR. STULL: Right.
6 THE COURT: -- medical records are electronic now.
7 MR. STULL: Right. And that's part of my -- my
8 struggle, because in April, I actually signed a release of
9 information, and I still don't have that. The documentation
10 counsel has is from a Social Security process I'm immersed
11 in right now.
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. STULL: So they provided me those medical
14 records.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 MR. STULL: But --
17 THE COURT: Well, that's all kind of outside my
18 purview.
19 MR. KELLEY: We can talk about that.
20 THE COURT: Yeah. Okay. So set for further
21 proceedings on February -- or, I'm sorry -- September 27th.
22 Is Mr. Stull's appearance waived for further
23 proceedings?
24 MR. KELLEY: I don't imagine since he's
25 representing himself, I don't think it would be.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
295
1 THE COURT: Oh, that's right. You need to be
2 there.
3 MR. STULL: Yeah, that's not my idea actually, is
4 it?
5 THE COURT: Okay. So you'll be there with your
6 legal advisor and -- but in the meantime, you'll deal with
7 your other case and that will give a good idea, you know,
8 maybe the State would be willing not to prosecute this
9 depending on what the outcome of the other case is, or maybe
10 not, but you'll have more information. Everybody will have
11 more information by September 27th, okay?
12 MR. KELLEY: Who knows, Your Honor may get to hear
13 that other case and would be --
14 THE COURT: You never know, I might.
15 MR. KELLEY: -- aware of the issues. Okay? Oh, I
16 need to sign an order.
18 in Volume 21, November 22, 2016.)
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
296
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 15, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 297 - 299
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable ANGEL
LOPEZ, Judge of the Circuit Court, Tuesday, November 22, 2016
APPEARANCES

1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
297
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Yes.
6 Kelley here, Bar Number 033539. And I am here as legal
7 advisor to Barry Joe Stull, who is present with us in the
8 courtroom.
9 THE COURT: All right. I know he's here, that's
10 fine.
11 MR. KELLEY: We are here for further proceedings
12 to pick a trial date.
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. KELLEY: I've got bad dates from the State.
15 And we could try this the first week of January.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 MR. KELLEY: I would suggest perhaps trial on the
18 3rd.
19 THE COURT: Do you want to call -- let's see.
20 MR. McMAHON: That would be call on, I believe,
21 the 29th.
22 THE COURT: I think so, let me see. Call on 29th
23 for trial on the 3rd. And we'll say motion to the Court.
24 This was kicked back for trial, wasn’t it?
25 MR. KELLEY: Yes.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
298
1 THE COURT: Yeah, motion to the Court.
2 MR. KELLEY: Was that the 28th, I'm sorry?
3 THE COURT: Call the -- Thursday, the 29th of
4 December, for trial Tuesday, the 3rd of January.
5 MR. McMAHON: And I can do a minute order for this.
6 THE CLERK: No, it's on docket.
7 MR. McMAHON: No?
8 THE COURT: No, we'll take care of that.
9 MR. McMAHON: Very well. Thank you.
10 MR. KELLEY: And we would request further
11 proceedings on December 21st. I guess no waiver of
12 appearance since he's pro se.
13 THE COURT: What's that? Yeah, he'd have to be
14 here.
15 MR. KELLEY: We'd request a further proceeding on
16 12/21.
17 THE COURT: Okay. 12/21 back here. Okay?
18 MR. McMAHON: That's fine.
19 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
20 Have a happy holiday, sir.
21 MR. STULL: Thanks.
24 Volume 22, December 21, 2016.)
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
299
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 15, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 300 - 302
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable ANGEL
LOPEZ, Judge of the Circuit Court, Wednesday, December 21,
APPEARANCES

1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
300
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2016
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Okay. And what's your name again?
5 MR. STULL: Barry Joe Stull.
6 THE COURT: Got it.
7 MR. STULL: S-t-u-l-l.
8 THE COURT: Yeah, this was to check dates.
9 MR. STULL: Yes. And I should advise the Court,
10 I have a -- inform the Court, I have a legal advisor --
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 MR. STULL: -- Kevin Kelley, although I'm
13 representing myself pro se.
14 THE COURT: Okay. Is Kevin --
15 MR. STULL: And he had some issues --
16 THE COURT: He's a lawyer?
18 THE COURT: Okay, very good.
19 MR. STULL: And he's not here this morning --
20 THE COURT: Oh, that's fine.
21 MR. STULL: -- and we know that.
22 THE COURT: That's fine, okay.
23 MR. STULL: So I'll tell him whatever we're doing
24 today.
25 THE COURT: Excellent.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
301
1 MR. STULL: But what I had was to be here for
2 further proceedings.
3 THE COURT: Yeah.
4 MR. STULL: We have calls scheduled for the 29th
5 of this month at 8:30 a.m.
6 THE COURT: Okay.
7 MR. STULL: And trial for January 3rd.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. STULL: And I just need to know where to show
10 up next.
11 THE COURT: Okay. Are those dates --
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It works.
13 THE COURT: Okay. On the 29th at 8:30, you need
14 to be back here.
15 MR. STULL: Okay, sure.
16 THE COURT: Okay. And then we'll call your case
17 and they'll get you a judge for the next day.
18 MR. STULL: All right. Thank you so much.
19 THE COURT: You're welcome. You have a great
20 holiday season.
21 MR. STULL: You bet, thank you.
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
302
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 15, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 303 - 304
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable ERIC J.
BERGSTROM, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, December 29,
APPEARANCES

Sean M. Mazorol, OSB #116398
1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
sean.mazorol@mcda.us

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
303
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Next is Oregon vs. Barry Stull.
6 Kelley here as legal advisor for Barry Joe Stull. He's
7 present in the back of the courtroom.
8 MR. STULL: Good morning, Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: Good morning.
10 MR. KELLEY: My Bar Number is 033539. We are
11 reporting ready for a two-day jury trial.
12 MR. MAZOROL: And I guess I should put my record
13 -- bar number on the record -- Sean Mazorol for the State,
14 M-a-z-o-r-o-l, bar number 116398.
15 And the State is ready. We are reporting four
16 witness, three-day trial.
17 MR. KELLEY: And perhaps I should mention, Mr. Stull
18 tells me that Judges Jones and Hodson had previously recused
19 themselves from this case.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 MR. KELLEY: Thank you, Judge.
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
304
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 15, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 305 - 597
______________________________________________________________

came on regularly for hearing before the Honorable JULIE E.
FRANTZ, Judge of the Circuit Court, Tuesday, January 3, 2017
APPEARANCES

1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162
FOR MR. STULL-APPELLANT:

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
GENERAL INDEX
VOLUME 24 of 26
January 3, 2017 Proceedings Page No.
Preliminary matters....................................... 305
State's motions in limine................................. 307
Judge's analysis and ruling .............................. 374
Discussion regarding scheduling........................... 380
Discussion regarding role of Legal Advisor................ 387
Seating of the prospective jury........................... 390
Voir Dire................................................. 391
Jury seated and sworn..................................... 423
Discussion regarding AMR records.......................... 424
Precautionary jury instructions........................... 428
Opening Statement by the State............................ 437
Opening Statement by the Defense.......................... 439
Testimony for State....................................... 447
State Rests............................................... 527
Motion for Judgment of Acquittal.......................... 528
State's Argument.......................................... 529
Ruling on Judgment of Acquittal........................... 529
Discussion regarding witness's testimony.................. 530
Testimony for Defense..................................... 558
Discussion regarding witness's testimony.................. 577

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
GENERAL INDEX (Cont'd)
VOLUME 24 of 26
Testimony for Defense cont'd.............................. 588
Reporter's Certificate.................................... 597

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
WITNESS INDEX
Christopher Dotson ...... 447 .... 452 .... 467
David Davies ............ 470 .... 487 .... 508
Officer Jena Lemke ...... 513 .... 519
FOR THE DEFENSE:
Jakob Beutler ........... 558 .... 588 .... 590
EXHIBIT INDEX
Offered Received
FOR THE STATE:
1 ................................ 463 ......... 464
2 ................................ 507 ......... 508
FOR THE DEFENSE:
101 .............................. 463 ......... 463
102 .............................. 489 ......... 490
103 .............................. 489 ......... 490
104 .............................. 489 ......... 490

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
305
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; TUESDAY, JANUARY 3, 2017
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: Please be seated. Thank you.
5 MR. McMAHON: Good morning, Your Honor. Eamon
6 McMahon for the State, M-c-M-a-h-o-n, bar number 153879.
7 Here in the matter of State v. Barry Stull, 15CR52961.
8 Mr. Stull is representing himself pro se and is assisted by
9 Legal Advisor Mr. Kevin Kelley.
10 THE COURT: All right, good morning.
12 Kelley, bar number 033539. Mr. Stull is present with us
13 out of custody.
14 THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Stull.
15 MR. STULL: Good morning, Your Honor.
16 MR. KELLEY: Defense is prepared to proceed, Your
17 Honor.
18 THE COURT: All right. This is a single count of
19 criminal trespass in the second degree. And has -- have --
20 Mr. Stull, have you elected to have a jury trial in this
21 matter?
22 MR. STULL: Yes.
23 THE COURT: All right. So we'll be calling a six
24 person jury when the time comes.
25 MR. STULL: Yes.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
306
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, and just a little bit of
3 information.
4 THE COURT: Sure.
5 MR. McMAHON: We did run a time pal. He has 76
6 days in -- on this case. He was booked at the same time on
7 a different case. And I understand Mr. Kelley may like to
8 be heard about that.
9 MR. KELLEY: Well, that's true, Your Honor. The
10 maximum allowed for this charge, of course, is 30 days. So
11 even if he were to be convicted, he could not be placed on
12 probation. We are here regarding simply the matter of a
13 conviction of a criminal trespass in the second degree, a C
14 misdemeanor.
15 He's got a record. This is not going to be his
16 first conviction. It's not a question of keeping his
17 record clean. This is not a crime that's going to move him
18 up on the guidelines or has any significance in that
19 regard. Reviewing the statute, the Court could --
20 THE COURT: What -- what statute are you referring
21 to?
22 MR. KELLEY: I'm referring to 135.755. I believe
23 the Court does have authority. And I should mention, Mr.
24 Stull remains on probation currently for several A
25 misdemeanors in a case that was tried, I believe, late

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
307
1 November perhaps.
2 MR. McMAHON: September.
3 THE COURT: Was that through Judge Roberts?
4 MR. KELLEY: September rather. He is on probation
5 for --
6 THE COURT: There's notations of --
7 MR. KELLEY: -- several charges currently. More
8 serious than this one, Your Honor. But ORS 135.755 sets
9 forth that the Court may in the furtherance of justice
10 order proceedings dismissed on its own motion. I would
11 submit that there is no -- nothing to be gained by a trial
12 on this matter at this time.
13 THE COURT: So ORS 135.77 -- 755 does not state
14 any criteria. It states the Court may either on its own
15 motion or upon the application of the District Attorney in
16 the furtherance of justice order the proceeding to be
17 dismissed. The reasons for the dismissal shall be set
18 forth in the order which should be entered in the Register.
19 And, Mr. McMahan?
20 MR. McMAHON: State would not be making that
21 motion. But it would just request that if the Court is
22 inclined to bring that motion of its own accord that it be
23 noted on the record that this was not an adjudication on
24 the merits, but rather, because of the extensive nature
25 that Mr. Stull has served, almost three times the maximum

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
308
1 on the charge.
2 THE COURT: Well, clearly if there is a conviction
3 in this case it could be no further jail time. Repeatedly
4 credit for time served or sentence of discharge. The --
5 that is a separate issue from the purpose for the
6 prosecution of the case. So without further reason, the
7 Court would not dismiss the case, but clearly at time of
8 sentencing 76 days will have a -- a decisive effect on what
9 sanction if there is a conviction.
10 Are there motions?
11 MR. McMAHON: State would move in limine. Mr.
12 Stull has provided voluminous medical records. I believe
13 there are some potential AMR records from the date in
14 question that may --
15 THE COURT: AMR, ambulance records?
16 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor.
18 MR. McMAHON: That may warrant a 104 hearing. My
19 understanding is the witnesses that will be presenting
20 those records are not currently present, so we can't have
21 that hearing at the moment. But Mr. Stull has submitted
22 three or four inches of documents, none of which pertain to
23 this incident. So the State would move to exclude these
24 medical documents and any reference to medical conditions
25 in those documents as they are not material or relevant to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
309
1 the facts in this case, nor for the elements of the charge
2 of criminal trespass in the second degree.
3 THE COURT: All right. Mr. -- Mr. Stull?
4 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. Good morning.
5 THE COURT: Good morning.
6 MR. STULL: First of all for the process of all of
7 this process, I have to advise you or at least inform
8 you -- I'm not advising the Court. I'm informing the
9 Court. I am a person with a disability. I've a --
10 THE COURT: And what's the -- what's the nature of
11 your disability?
12 MR. STULL: It's a neurological condition. So
13 except for my behavior you won't see any visible signs of
14 it. My neurologist, Dr. Grimm (ph) testified, among other
15 things, it's a whole new disease on a molecular basis.
16 It's called Central Pain or Central Pain Syndrome. It --
17 right now I'm dealing with nausea. About 15 minutes ago, I
18 was blowing my gasket because of the emotional shock of
19 what I'd been presented here as a plea offer this
20 morning -- which, one, surprised me, because I didn't think
21 I'd be hearing that at this juncture, and second, that it's
22 not going to resolve what is -- what is my problem.
23 So anyhow, as far as these processes are -- are
24 concerned, I -- I may request that I'm able to chew gum
25 just to keep my pain from making my jaw clench up over --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
310
1 over the --
2 THE COURT: And what is the -- the location of
3 your pain?
4 MR. STULL: It's global, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. STULL: It's a central nervous system
7 condition.
9 MR. STULL: And the -- the central nervous system
10 is the brain -- the brain stem and the spinal cord. The
11 site of my injury is actually right about there. But it's
12 not really because it has to do with rewiring of a -- a
13 neighbor nerve -- had nothing to do with -- the pain relay
14 mechanism has actually grown in and infiltrated, stimulates
15 my -- I'm -- I'm feeling pain right now in a place that my
16 body couldn't report pain if I actually had an injury at
17 that site.
18 THE COURT: And so, just so I have some
19 clarification as we go through the trial --
20 MR. STULL: Yeah.
21 THE COURT: -- does it come on with no warning and
22 then does it affect your behavior?
23 MR. STULL: Well, it did this morning.
24 THE COURT: Right. So that's what I'm asking. Do
25 you have warning? Are there warning signs and so if you

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
311
1 need to take a recess that you could advise the Court?
2 MR. STULL: Right.
3 THE COURT: Or does it just --
4 MR. STULL: No. Well --
5 THE COURT: Some of both?
6 MR. STULL: Yeah. If -- if it's shocking enough,
7 Your Honor. If -- if -- maybe I can put it this way. One
8 fine spring day I dropped my rent payment in the mailbox at
9 the landlord's place. Everything was fine. I was on my
10 bicycle. There was a couple of gals, maybe my age walking,
11 enjoying, and I happened to notice as one of them is
12 crossing the street when she gets to the curb she trips and
13 lands on both knees, and she's wearing shorts. When she
14 hit the sidewalk, I had a physical sensation right here.
15 Where other people would cringe or go "uh", I have
16 a physiology that does that. Now right now I'm dealing
17 with nausea. How that all works into this system I don't
18 know, but I don't have an off -- off switch. So once I
19 start to vomit it -- it doesn't respond to normal controls,
20 because it wasn't like I have the flu or wasn't like I ate
21 something.
22 THE COURT: Sure. I understand that.
23 MR. STULL: Or it wasn’t like I stuck my finger
24 down my throat. It's just a manifestation.
25 THE COURT: It just happens. So --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
312
1 MR. STULL: Yeah. It --
2 THE COURT: -- let me ask on that point.
3 MR. STULL: Yeah.
4 THE COURT: Should we take some precaution, like
5 just having a wastebasket nearby --
6 MR. STULL: No.
7 THE COURT: -- in case --
8 MR. STULL: I don’t think --
9 THE COURT: -- it comes on so suddenly?
10 MR. STULL: No. I don't think so.
12 MR. STULL: I don’t think that's going to happen.
13 And just to kind of inform the Court, what I'm trying to
14 effect --
16 MR. STULL: -- through this whole process. This
17 was -- this case was -- says right on the charging
18 instrument, Northeast Community Court eligible. I could --
19 I could spend far less time and energy having this resolved
20 through that process than --
22 MR. STULL: -- than what I'm doing here.
24 MR. STULL: But what I'm doing here, Your Honor,
25 and -- and -- is -- is you're going to find out that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
313
1 there's an ongoing problem here. The problem is that the
2 exchange that we had this morning was longer than the first
3 responders took when they decided not to give me medical
4 transport. I'd been to the hospital. We're going to learn
5 all this in evidence, so I don't think I'm speaking out of
6 turn. Mr. -- Mr. McMahon knows all about this. I've been
7 to the Emanuel Hospital Friday morning self-reporting and
8 diagnosed with -- with three word description -- three word
9 diagnosis -- Central Pain Syndrome.
10 THE COURT: Is -- are you talking about the day of
11 the incident now?
12 MR. STULL: Yes.
14 MR. STULL: Well, Friday and this happened on
15 Sunday.
17 MR. STULL: And then I went over after midnight.
18 So we're --
19 THE COURT: Right. Yeah.
20 MR. STULL: -- so anyhow, the -- and then I had
21 the exit material that said if condition worsens return. I
22 called 9-1-1. Told them -- I believe Mr. Kelley has the
23 9-1-1 documents -- or the audio. I said, make sure the
24 first respondent or responders know that I can't vocalize
25 about my condition. I wouldn't tell them what was wrong

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
314
1 with me. I said I have Central Pain Syndrome. I need to
2 return as these exit instructions say, and 20 minutes later
3 I still wasn't being transported.
4 So that was a very emotionally shocking episode
5 for me because I was so -- so deteriorated by the time I
6 made the 9-1-1 call that I wasn't in any state to deal with
7 the trip to the emergency room under those circumstances.
8 And the other matter, I'll -- I'll just inform the
9 Court is a housekeeping matter that -- that Mr. Kelley, Mr.
10 McMahon and I have a -- have a scheduled appointment on
11 that other case for a motion for a new trial on the 5th at
12 11:30 in Judge Roberts's court. And there's, frankly,
13 there's a discovery error in that case. So this is ongoing
14 for me, and -- and none of it's really healthy for me
15 except I want to put this issue to rest.
16 The case today is one where I was exiting the
17 hospital from the emergency room to the door, was
18 approached from behind on my way to exit the hospital as I
19 had done on Friday two days earlier. Except this time the
20 security guards arrested me for trespassing, because I
21 refused to leave the hospital. I don't believe it. I am
22 not owning that. Mr. McMahon thinks that he can bring a
23 jury in here, and they're going to say that that's
24 reasonable that -- what they did to me. With -- try to get
25 me to exit through a fire door when it's in the 30's, and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
315
1 I'm wearing gym shorts and t-shirt. Because I thought I
2 had a condition that merited that ambulance arriving with
3 the lights and sirens at my -- at my house where I have a
4 house. And I have my TriMed taken care of.
5 So he's going to have to convince the jury that I
6 wanted to stay at that hospital when I could simply make my
7 way home on a Sunday night with the transit that was
8 available at the time. Unfortunately, it wasn't available
9 when I got out of jail at 2:30 in the morning on this case.
10 It was 38 degrees. I got home about 5:00 in the morning.
11 So I am really, really angry that I even have to be here
12 right now.
13 THE COURT: You were released at 2:30 in the
14 morning?
15 MR. STULL: After I got out of the exit -- the
16 Emergency -- emergency room where I was delivered by
17 ambulance.
18 THE COURT: But you were released from jail at
19 2:30 in the morning?
20 MR. STULL: Yeah. The last bus leaves --
21 THE COURT: Right. No, I -- I --
22 MR. STULL: -- crosses the Burnside Bridge at
23 2 a.m. to get to my house.
24 THE COURT: I -- I'm just --
25 MR. STULL: So they -- they run late but not --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
316
1 THE COURT: I’m just repeating that because that's
2 something that is of concern to the Court. So I just want
3 to make sure I understood that.
4 MR. STULL: 38 degrees wearing gym shorts --
5 THE COURT: You were -- were released at that
6 time.
7 MR. STULL: -- and t-shirt, Your Honor. I was not
8 happy about that.
9 THE COURT: Right.
10 MR. STULL: Okay. So -- so had I -- so -- I'm
11 going to sit down, because I want you to run the show here.
12 But had I gone to Community Court, every single one of
13 these abuses that I'm experiencing and ongoing -- this is
14 ongoing. It interferes with my ability to make decisions
15 of where I'm going to be today. If I -- if I wouldn't have
16 come in here this morning I'd have a warrant for my arrest.
17 So it's not like -- you know, it's not like I can just do
18 what I want about this. You of all -- and it's a plural
19 you. It's everybody -- seven billion of you have got me
20 here this morning right now under threat of -- a threat. I
21 don’t need -- you know, I don’t need to say what happens
22 when people like me have encounters with law enforcement.
23 Right? Because that's why we're here.
24 THE COURT: Well, if you didn't appear for trial
25 then the Court would issue a --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
317
1 MR. STULL: That’s why we're here. So --
2 THE COURT: -- warrant and you'd be arrested. And
3 you'd be in jail, yes.
4 MR. STULL: I'm --
5 THE COURT: If that's what you mean by threat that
6 is the legal process that would be imposed.
7 MR. STULL: I have to be here.
8 THE COURT: Right.
9 MR. STULL: And it's not because I want to be
10 here. I want to be here since I have to be here to stop
11 all this. Because, as I said, had I gone through the
12 Northeast Community Court this case would have been
13 dismissed, and I -- learned Judge, Your Honor. I respect
14 your office. I just met you this morning, but I do respect
15 your office. You just learned that they're letting folks
16 with disabilities out at 3 -- 2:30 in the morning when the
17 transit stops running at 2. 38 degrees, gym shorts and t-
18 shirt -- no, that's not -- that's not healthy environment,
19 and that's not going to lead to any -- anything good. All
20 right? Okay.
21 That being said, my overarching -- overarching
22 approach to all this is this entire process violates my
23 civil rights as a person with a disability under the
24 Americans with Disabilities Act and under the pretty
25 corresponding Oregon Administrative Rules. Which, in

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
318
1 Oregon, it's -- it's actually a mess. It -- spaghetti is
2 easier to understand than our legislation in Oregon on
3 this. Okay. So if you'd just let me be brief.
4 The Oregon Legislature and the Governor authorized
5 in to law ORS Chapter 659(a).142, which is kind of a catch-
6 all, because it has discrimination by places of public
7 accommodation and discrimination by State Government
8 regarding persons with disabilities. And then when you get
9 to that, those -- that very Spartan language in -- in that
10 statute is then elaborated by the Oregon Bureau of Labor
11 and Industries. Because the commissioner of the Bureau of
12 Labor and Industries is authorized by enabling statutes to
13 do that rule-making authority even to the extent where if
14 a -- one party, or entity -- person -- if they violate the
15 Bureau of Labor and Industries administrative rules, that
16 is actually considered a -- I think the language is
17 unlawful activity in definitions in that -- that chapter of
18 law as we have in Oregon. We have the definitions
19 specifically -- statutorily defined terms. And unlawful
20 practice I think is what it is in the definitions.
21 And that includes something that violates the
22 Bureau of Labor and Industries administrative rules which
23 interpret and enforce that ORS 659(a).142, which is
24 discrimination against person with disabilities in places
25 of public accommodation, which, believe it or not, would be

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
319
1 the -- any -- facility that Multnomah has open to the
2 public. Right? So -- so could be a government place of
3 public accommodation. You know, and so -- anyhow, in all
4 that we have the -- two things being the same thing --
5 reasonable modification and reasonable accommodation. So
6 you might know that an ADA if somebody in that jury needs
7 to have a -- a, you know --
8 THE COURT: Hearing device, yes.
9 MR. STULL: -- something hearing device or a --
10 the interpreter or something like that. We know that
11 because that's under the ADA and the corresponding Oregon
12 legislation.
14 MR. STULL: And what didn't happen here was any
15 effort on the part of Emanuel Hospital to engage in any
16 kind of a -- a interaction once I identified myself as a
17 person with a disability to those security guards. Now
18 thanks to having this other matter that was in front of
19 Judge Roberts, I know from one of the AMR ambulance
20 attendants, that when they drugged me in the driveway of my
21 trailer court some 20 minutes after they arrived, I
22 actually didn't lose consciousness. I only lost memory. I
23 thought it was -- I thought it was black. I blacked out.
24 Whatever drug that was they gave me we have it in the AMR
25 report. But whatever drug they gave me I didn't know. I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
320
1 woke up -- I -- I can't even say I woke up. I thought I
2 woke up at the emergency room like two-and-a-half hours
3 later. So I don't know really what happened, you know,
4 from the probably the time the ambulance hit Stark Street
5 out in front of my house at 108th and Stark. From then on
6 I -- I don't know what happened until I woke up at the
7 emergency room after a nurse said you're discharged.
8 So I don't know what happened, and I wouldn't know
9 what happened had I not already brought in this witness.
10 I'd be really terribly shocked to have this AMR witness
11 coming into this trial and learn that I spent two-and-a-
12 half hours in a blackout that I -- I wasn't aware of. I
13 mean, that's not -- you -- no one -- no one of us would
14 be -- that's what we call date rape drugs date rape drugs.
15 Because people wake up and their memory's gone.
16 So -- so I'm not happy about this whole situation,
17 Your Honor, so -- so I -- just want to say that two ways we
18 can look at this. One way is the case that's most directly
19 on point is State versus Marbet. It was Lloyd Marbet, and
20 he was a rabble-rousing political activist protestor and
21 he's in the case law. And I just revisited that case
22 although I -- I know it. And -- and the incident --
23 THE COURT: Do you have a citation for that? Or
24 if it's something I should be --
25 MR. STULL: Yes, I -- I'll get you -- I'll get you

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
321
1 that in a moment, Your Honor. But the -- the point is that
2 one of the defenses in the charged statutes on criminal
3 trespass is that there has to be a lawful order for the
4 person to leave. And if the order to leave is --
5 violates -- in this case they used the disability law -- a
6 person in a wheelchair comes into a restaurant that -- the
7 restaurant owner has -- has other customers that don't like
8 that. And they say you have to leave. And they can't use
9 the trespass because that would violate the ADA. I'm using
10 the ADA as shorthand. I don't what the actual -- the --
11 the law is pertaining.
12 So one of the defenses to this charge is that the
13 public accommodation, in this case Emanuel Hospital and
14 their security guards, violated my rights as a person with
15 a disability by not engaging in the mandatory process that
16 you have to engage with people so you can know what
17 accommodation is reasonable. And I'll reiterate that the
18 terms reasonable motivation and reasonable accommodation
19 have deemed to be functionally equivalent by the -- I
20 believe it was Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. There's
21 some case law that -- that states specifically that. That
22 -- that reasonable modification and reasonable
23 accommodation both mean the same thing.
24 So -- so anyhow, where this all falls down, Your
25 Honor, is as we heard this morning, the State wants to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
322
1 exclude the medical records that would document that I have
2 a disability. And if we exclude the medical records that
3 document that I have a disability, then I don’t have a
4 disability for the purposes of proving to a fact finder
5 that my rights as a person with a disability were violated,
6 which is the defense to the criminal charge. So I can't --
7 I can't use the defense in the criminal charge, because the
8 State is saying that my evidence to -- that would prove my
9 status that would entitle me to that defense is irrelevant.
10 THE COURT: Let -- let me ask this. I understand
11 that the information that you've provided is to give me
12 context?
13 MR. STULL: Yes.
14 THE COURT: For your motion?
15 MR. STULL: Can I sit down, Your Honor, please?
16 THE COURT: You may, absolutely.
18 THE COURT: Criminal trespass in the second degree
19 requires that the State prove beyond a reasonable doubt
20 that you unlawfully and intentionally, knowingly, and
21 recklessly and that means intentionally or knowingly or
22 recklessly -- that's the -- the mystery of the legislative
23 construction where and means or -- entered and/or remained
24 upon a premises located at 2801 N. Gantenbein Avenue,
25 Portland, Oregon which is the location of Emanuel Hospital.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
323
1 So what I'm gathering, in part, from the context
2 you've provided to the Court is -- could construe was is
3 intended to be presented as a diminished capacity in not
4 being able to form the intent because of the fact you were
5 sedated. And so I'm not sure, because I haven't gotten
6 enough information. But that's where I first thought you
7 were going.
8 MR. STULL: Yeah.
9 THE COURT: A -- secondly, that you could not
10 intentionally or knowingly violate the criminal trespass in
11 the second degree law because you -- due to this
12 neurological condition --
13 MR. McMAHON: Pardon me, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: -- you were unable to form the intent
15 to remain on the premises in violation of the law. And
16 thirdly, and this is where it gets a little more
17 challenging -- that you're proposing to argue that the
18 hospital did not make a reasonable accommodation, because
19 they did not have enough information, because they did not
20 inquire sufficiently as to your physical condition, and,
21 therefore, violated your rights and in arresting you for
22 not exiting the hospital when directed to do so.
23 So what is -- and -- and I -- again, I'm just
24 trying to get a bit of a roadmap here.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
324
1 MR. McMAHON: Excuse me.
2 THE COURT: I may be totally off basis to anything
3 that you intended. I'm not suggesting any defenses, but
4 I'm trying to --
5 MR. STULL: No. No, you're not, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: I'm trying to just from what you've
7 said, extrapolate and get a sense before we, you know, have
8 a -- motions that may be in the middle of trial and so
9 forth --
11 THE COURT: -- as to the direction that you're
12 headed. And so I -- so I, in fact, appreciate, even though
13 it's unusual and not in a normal form, the context. And
14 Mr. McMahon probably has much he would like to say in
15 response to that. But it does help the Court and one of
16 the challenges, as I started to say, is going to be to
17 separate what is in front of this Court and will be in
18 front of this jury as to the charge in this case and the
19 rules of evidence that apply in the criminal charge --
20 criminal trial versus what may be brought or considered to
21 be in the arena of a civil challenge. Right?
23 THE COURT: Because this court is charged and can
24 only hold a trial within context of what is legally
25 allowable that directly impacts under rules of evidence --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
325
1 the -- the criminal charge. In that, there may be,
2 separate and apart from that civil challenges that you
3 would want to bring that that would be independent. The
4 court cannot combine those two. Now, I'm not saying that
5 anything and everything that you've said may not come into
6 this trial. I'll have to work through that --
7 MR. STULL: Right.
8 THE COURT: -- as we go through. Okay? But I do
9 want to make that -- that clear. If there's things that
10 are excluded because they don’t fall within the parameters
11 of a criminal trial, that doesn't mean that the Court is
12 making any ruling or conclusion or indication as to whether
13 or not there may be civil issues that you might want to or
14 would have a basis or not to proceeding with at some other
15 point in some -- some other context and appearance in
16 court.
17 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. And I really
18 appreciate how you've kind of made it easy for me to narrow
19 this down so I can broaden it --
21 MR. STULL: -- once we narrow it down.
23 MR. STULL: You stated three -- three possible
24 things. One was diminished capacity and -- and forget the
25 second one, but the -- the third one regarded the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
326
1 reasonable accommodations or reasonable modifications. And
2 as a person with a disability, regarding my neurological
3 condition, and whether the Emanuel Hospital security staff
4 did what they're required to do by law prior to the arrest.
5 Which then, if -- which would be that defense under --
6 under Marbet, and I'll get -- I will get you that case
7 citation.
8 THE COURT: We can -- yeah. I'm sure we can find
9 it here.
10 MR. STULL: Yeah.
11 THE COURT: If you had it it makes it easier.
12 MR. STULL: It's Lloyd Marbet; M-a-r-b-e-t.
13 Anyhow the point is that the -- the appellate record in
14 Oregon is absolutely bereft of any analysis of the statute
15 that I'm referring to. So we -- we can't -- Marbet's as
16 close as we can get to. And that -- and that dates from, I
17 believe, the 1970's. It's -- it's -- so -- so since we've
18 actually passed the Americans with Disabilities Act, we
19 haven't even addressed that in Oregon courts. It's just --
20 you know, it doesn't get there. And -- and I'm here to
21 show why.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 MR. STULL: Right. So anyhow, the issue is is the
24 State Government as a person under the -- you know, the way
25 the Statute -- please bear with me. And for the moment for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
327
1 the sake of our discussion, trust me and -- and then we can
2 prove this different later. That's what the State's job
3 is.
4 But what I'm saying is is that the State cannot
5 assist Emanuel Hospital in violating my civil rights.
6 Because if Emanuel Hospital is engaging in an unlawful
7 preventive disability discrimination process of bringing me
8 into court, the Court can't assist them if they're
9 assisting Emanuel Hospital in -- in violating my civil
10 rights. That -- that's the State being a party to -- to
11 the violation of the civil rights law.
12 So -- so and that includes actually all the way
13 through the analysis of the judicial department which comes
14 right down to, with all due respect, your chair and the
15 other ones here in the courtroom. So -- so the State of
16 Oregon can't assist Emanuel Hospital in violating my civil
17 rights as a person with a disability. So how I would see
18 it as a civilian, although pro se, how -- how I would see
19 it is, then the Court -- at some point if the Court gets to
20 the -- gets to the reality here -- the awareness where you
21 go "wait a minute" this -- what they're doing is illegal.
22 They can't prosecute under the civil -- with the -- I can't
23 help them violate this man's civil rights. And then the
24 Court on its own motion for the interest of justice or
25 however that would come out would dismiss the case.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
328
1 Secondary to that and independent of that -- I
2 don't want to say secondary. I don't want to hierarchy any
3 of this stuff. The jury should be able to determine
4 whether the order to leave was lawful. And if it wasn't
5 lawful, because it violated the civil rights legislation,
6 then per Marbet that serves as defense.
7 THE COURT: Well, I -- I will --
8 MR. STULL: So -- so that -- that’s about all I
9 can say on all this --
10 THE COURT: Yeah.
11 MR. STULL: -- and we're just going to take some
12 digesting and -- and some understanding. But --
13 THE COURT: And I'll review Marbet, but I --
14 again, because I want to be absolutely clear and -- and
15 direct on this point. This is a criminal case and what you
16 are proposing to the extent that it goes to your state of
17 mind of intentionally or knowingly or recklessly remaining
18 or entering the hospital that is the framework within which
19 the Court will consider anything that you want to bring in.
20 But this is not a civil trial as to whether there's a
21 violation of your rights.
22 And so, again, the lens through which I'll be
23 looking at anything that you want to bring in as to the
24 ADA, lack of accommodation, lack of modification, basis
25 upon which the Emanuel Hospital interacted with the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
329
1 security and so forth, the lens through which that will be
2 viewed and examined will be within the criminal structure
3 of these -- the state of mind that you had at the time tha t
4 you were -- that you -- that's alleged that you entered or
5 remained at the Emanuel Hospital with having been told
6 to -- to leave. Okay?
7 MR. STULL: Right. Okay. And I -- and --
8 THE COURT: I want to be as clear as fair as
9 possible --
11 THE COURT: -- so don't start down a tangent and
12 misconstrue something I said in the beginning to say I
13 thought you were going to allow that. I haven't made any
14 determination yet. But I just want to make sure that you
15 understand that. And you're very -- you're a very bright
16 man. There's no question about that. You've done a great
17 deal of analysis of this. So I need to be as clear as I
18 can about how I see my responsibility in administering the
19 law to this case within the context of this charge. And so
20 I'm going to have to think through as I hear the evidence
21 to what extent which you intend to present of fact your
22 state of mind that the State has to prove --
24 THE COURT: -- as well as the directive that
25 you believe were not entered.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
330
1 MR. STULL: Right. So -- so since we're at the
2 beginning --
3 THE COURT: Right.
4 MR. STULL: -- and this -- and it counts,
5 the -- to tell you what I'm seeing is the opportunities for
6 the court to analyze what I'm presenting would be a Motion
7 for a Judgment of Acquittal following the State's
8 presentation of the case. Because if they present the case
9 in -- in -- and, in fact, showed that there was a -- a duty
10 on the -- on the part of Emanuel Hospital security that was
11 due in lieu of the arrest, then if that says that they
12 arrest in all these things following violate the civil
13 rights law, then -- then I think the Court would have to,
14 just simply because the State has an obligation not to --
15 to, you know, the State has a -- a state policy, for one
16 thing. I'm -- I'm not speaking without having the -- the
17 legislation say. Not the legislature, but the -- the two
18 other branches of government. And we're here in the
19 judicial branch. I'm aware of that. But what I'm saying
20 is we have a stated public policy that persons with
21 disabilities get to participate and -- and that includes
22 the duty of places of public accommodation or State
23 Government or whatever to allow us to do that.
24 And -- and so I just want to let you know at the
25 beginning that these issues will be -- these issues are

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
331
1 coming up. You don't know about them necessarily and --
2 and you won't be able to know about them unless I raise it
3 this earliest opportunity a chance to inform you to be
4 what -- why I'm presenting things for you to look for
5 later. I don’t want you to have to remember everything and
6 without -- for an analysis without the benefit of at least
7 being part of your memory -- right? Fixed in your memory,
8 because you -- you know that that's important.
9 THE COURT: Right. All right, Mr. Stull. Thank
10 you.
11 MR. STULL: All right. Thank, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Mr. McMahon?
13 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. I think Your Honor
14 kind of keyed in on the critical difference.
15 THE COURT: A little bit louder.
16 MR. McMAHON: I'm sorry. I'm getting over a cold.
17 THE COURT: Yeah.
18 MR. McMAHON: I think Your Honor kind of keyed in
19 on the critical issue here and that's sort of a conflation
20 of civil and criminal issues. Mr. Stull has kind of
21 focused his attention on the Oregonian Disability Act and
22 the Bureau of Labor and Industries' interpretation of that
23 Act. And based on his statements here, and then also in a
24 similar matter heard before Judge Roberts in early
25 September, where he raised an almost identical defense to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
332
1 those charges, his contention is essentially that those
2 civil remedies for failure to make disability accommodation
3 somehow become an affirmative criminal defense for the
4 charges he's facing. That is not accurate and that does
5 not reflect the status of the law.
6 Judge Roberts ruled in that trial that that was
7 improper to bring in that -- that basis for challenging the
8 lawfulness of an order, or, I guess, just the charges
9 generally. It wasn't -- it wasn't same -- exact same
10 charge, but it was a similar where he'd been excluded from
11 somewhere. And it was an attempt to assault of a public
12 safety officer resisting arrest and Criminal Mischief 2.
13 And I think here where it kind of seems like the
14 critical distinction that Mr. Stull is focusing on is the
15 lawfulness where he is reading the civil statute and saying
16 because of that civil statute that obviously means
17 lawfulness in a criminal context, and it's therefore
18 applicable to the criminal charge of criminal trespass in
19 the second degree. That's not accurate. That's not what
20 the law is, and there's nothing that indicates the civil
21 definitions provided in the disability section are
22 applicable as an affirmative defense to the criminal
23 statute.
24 And, for those reasons, that's why the State's
25 moving to exclude those medical records, and the -- the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
333
1 State's second motion in limine would essentially because
2 exclusion of references to just this sort of legal
3 argument. Because as the Court properly -- the Court
4 identified, this is properly a matter for a civil suit.
5 It's not a criminal matter. It does not have any impact on
6 the criminal facts in this case. And it does not make the
7 facts in this case any more or less likely to be true, and
8 is, therefore, irrelevant.
9 Now as far as his records of medical treatment on
10 this night, I think that's a closer question. And that's
11 why the State would be requesting a 104 hearing when those
12 all -- when those ambulance technicians do show up to kind
13 of determine at that point if their testimony is germane to
14 the matter at hand. And specifically to the issues that
15 Your Honor was sort of identifying in terms of the
16 diminished capacity, what sort of a medical condition he
17 was undergoing at that point in time, and if he was
18 suffering an event that might have impacted his level of
19 functioning to the point where it would affect his criminal
20 culpability.
21 So I think here the critical distinction is, and
22 what the State's trying to do, is just sort of narrow it
23 down and focus only on the criminal matter here in today's
24 case. Mr. Stull also wants this to be about his trials and
25 travails and his issues with disability, which, I can't

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
334
1 speak to. That's sort of beyond the scope of this very
2 particularized issue. And I think, while Mr. Stull may
3 have complaints he wants to -- he would want to raise in a
4 different venue, this is not the proper venue for the
5 airing of those grievances.
6 And I think that what we need to do is focus on
7 the criminal matter. And that's why the State's asking to
8 exclude the medical records and references to his
9 assertions about the civil law. Because as Your Honor saw
10 earlier, that's -- that's the bulk of his argument -- the
11 bulk of his concern. I think if we put that in front of a
12 jury, it's not relevant to the charge at hand it can become
13 extraordinarily confusing, and it doesn’t make any facts in
14 the charged issue more or less likely to be true.
15 MR. KELLEY: Mr. Stull asked me to mention to Your
16 Honor that this case is different from the prior case
17 because of the charge here. This is criminal trespass.
18 There was no criminal trespass charged tried to the jury in
19 his last case. And the State has to prove in this case
20 that it was a lawful order that he leave. So that is an
21 element that the State has to prove, which makes this
22 particular charge different than the previously tried
23 charges. And it makes his defense more relevant and on
24 point for that particular element that the State has to
25 prove.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
335
1 THE COURT: Question as to medical -- the
2 ambulance records -- his AMR records. Do those go to this
3 either Friday night or Sunday in particular or --
4 MR. McMAHON: Yeah -- I -- I --
5 THE COURT: -- are they more generalized? Or are
6 they over a longer period of time? What -- what --I -- I
7 can't deal with this until you have your witness here. And
8 so we're going to have to take a break, and I'm going to be
9 able to go through them after your witness has testified
10 and so forth to understand the context here. And the -- I
11 guess what's encompassed in those records, but just to give
12 me a little bit of a heads up? A couple inches -- stack of
13 records?
14 MR. KELLEY: Could I suggest we take -- could I
15 suggest we might take that up before the Defense case
16 potentially when the witnesses are here?
17 THE COURT: Before the Defense -- pardon me?
18 MR. KELLEY: I would suggest --
19 THE COURT: -- before the -- before --
20 MR. KELLEY: -- perhaps we take that up before the
21 Defense case perhaps?
22 THE COURT: Before you put on your witnesses?
23 MR. KELLEY: Yes.
24 THE COURT: Yes. Yes. I can't rule on that now
25 is my point.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
336
1 MR. KELLEY: Okay. Right. Right.
2 THE COURT: But I just wanted a heads up as to I
3 guess the parameters of what this -- these records sets
4 that are a couple inches thick pertain to. Is it just this
5 Friday through Sunday? Or just the Sunday? Or just the
6 Friday when you entered? Or is over a long period of time?
7 MR. STULL: Well, thank you, Your Honor. First,
8 since we've already discussed this morning that -- that
9 from the November 25th to February 9th of 2016, I was in
10 custody. While I was in custody, the goods I had on my --
11 the personal goods that I had at the time of the arrest on
12 the 25th were destroyed. There was a mix-up about they
13 didn't deliver me my property receipt that said they were
14 only going to hold for 60 days and that kind of stuff. And
15 we know it was 70-some days. And my goods were destroyed
16 by them including -- and that's why I'm bringing this to
17 your attention now. At the time I interfaced with these
18 AMR ambulance people that we're -- you're wanting to know
19 about, I had in my hand the exit paperwork from Emanuel
20 Hospital from Friday -- the earlier visit. So I believe --
21 THE COURT: The Friday before the Sunday incident?
22 MR. STULL: I think it's November 20th if I -- I'm
23 going to get these dates right -- November 20th, 2015. I
24 went to Emanuel Hospital, treated, released, exit paperwork
25 said return if condition worsens and have --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
337
1 THE COURT: So were you released on --
2 MR. STULL: On Friday.
3 THE COURT: -- on Friday itself.
4 MR. STULL: Yeah. Right.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. STULL: Okay. And -- and the exit paperwork,
7 as I said, returned if condition worse -- was -- was on
8 that. When I walked out of my place with that paperwork on
9 Sunday to return, which is this quite convoluted ordeal
10 that we're -- that's why we're here talking about it. I
11 just wanted to go to the hospital and come home, and that
12 didn't happen.
13 THE COURT: On Sunday --
14 MR. STULL: Yeah. On Sunday.
15 THE COURT: -- because your condition worsened.
16 MR. STULL: So the -- so the paperwork I got on
17 Sunday, by coincidence, which proves that they have
18 rotating staff and Emanuel Hospital emergency department.
19 It was the same attending physician on both of those on the
20 20th and the 22nd with the same three-word diagnosis, and
21 the same three-word description -- just that they got a
22 chart. And it just says diagnosis -- Central Pain
23 Syndrome. Description -- Central Pain Syndrome. So in the
24 AMR records in the Portland Fire Bureau records who came to
25 the -- my house the same incident, they say that I'm saying

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
338
1 I have Central Pain Syndrome.
2 THE COURT: You're saying on the 20th when they
3 came to your house?
4 MR. STULL: Well, on the 22nd.
5 THE COURT: On the 22nd. All right.
6 MR. STULL: Yeah. On the 22nd. So anyhow, we
7 have this Central Pain Syndrome. Me saying I have Central
8 Pain Syndrome, and according to AMR. Me saying I have
9 Central Pain Syndrome according to Portland Fire Bureau
10 report. What we don't have is the paperwork that said that
11 I -- the one that I had in my hand, my evidence from
12 Friday, November 20th, 2015, that was destroyed. This --
13 well, until last week this calendar year. That was
14 destroyed in 2016 by the Portland Police Property.
15 THE COURT: And that's -- that's the paperwork
16 that said --
17 MR. STULL: So that was my evidence.
18 THE COURT: Well, wait a minute. But the
19 paperwork you're concerned about was the one that said
20 return if condition worsens?
21 MR. STULL: And the same diagnosis. It -- it's --
22 with all due respect, it's -- it's pretty much a standard
23 exit instruction --
25 MR. STULL: -- when you're leaving the emergency

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
339
1 room.
2 THE COURT: Right. Sure.
3 MR. STULL: You know, it just happens that there's
4 -- then if you have a break or a, you know, a strain or
5 whatever, stitches they give you -- pertinent. Right? And
6 the -- and so anyhow, as fate would have it, I mean, Social
7 Security Disability application process, which has gathered
8 up all the medical evidence that Administrative Law Judge
9 Thompson was the Social Security -- Thomason -- Social
10 Security can gather, which includes from Legacy something
11 that states that I was treated on those two days, but I
12 don't have that exit paperwork. So I'm kind of hampered
13 as -- in defense, because the -- not my side destroyed by
14 Evidence as I was in custody. Right. And so -- so I
15 have -- I want to let you know about that. But the --
16 my --
17 THE COURT: Now do they -- well, I don't want to
18 get in too far --
19 MR. STULL: Yeah.
20 THE COURT: -- into the evidence, but let me just
21 ask this. Was there any effort made to access; subpoena
22 the records from Emanuel Hospital because they have
23 documentation of what is told to you when you exit the
24 hospital?
25 MR. STULL: Well, Mr. McMahon has -- has agreed to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
340
1 not challenge the authenticity or the voracity of the
2 medical records, but only their relevance.
3 THE COURT: Right. But so to that -- on that
4 point, you have no medical record. You have no
5 documentation that you intend to present the evidence that
6 you were told to return if -- if, you know, symptoms
7 occurred -- reoccurred or whatever --
8 MR. STULL: On that point --
9 THE COURT: Right.
10 MR. STULL: -- I don't have that.
11 THE COURT: And so is there --
12 Is there a stipulation, Mr. McMahon, that he
13 was --
14 MR. McMAHON: No, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: No. So --
16 MR. McMAHON: Mr. Stull couldn't --
17 THE COURT: So that -- go ahead.
18 MR. McMAHON: Mr. Stull could have subpoenaed
19 that. He could have requested it
21 MR. McMAHON: -- from Legacy Emanuel. I've never
22 seen that documentation. And the State would object to any
23 reference to that as both hearsay and a Best Evidence Rule.
24 And it's not --
25 THE COURT: Well, it -- it is hearsay and it

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
341
1 doesn't comport with the Best Evidence Rule, so that's why
2 I has asking if you had subpoenaed those records from
3 Emanuel Hospital.
4 MR. STULL: Here --
5 MR. KELLEY: I believe it would be admissible for
6 its effect on Mr. Stull, Your Honor.
7 MR. STULL: And here's what this is all going to
8 trace back to, because Emanuel Hospital's security's going
9 to come in and they're going to say that they had trespass
10 exclusions that they issued. And -- and this morning Mr.
11 McMahon says I have one still. That's their fantasy.
12 THE COURT: Wait. Let me -- let me understand.
13 Mr. McMahon --
14 MR. STULL: If I --
15 THE COURT: Just --
16 MR. STULL: -- go to -- if I go to --
17 THE COURT: -- one moment, Mr. Stull. Back up.
18 Was there a trespass exclusion in effect at the
19 time that Mr. Stull returned on Sunday the 22nd?
20 MR. McMAHON: Multiple.
21 THE COURT: And, wait a minute --
22 MR. STULL: Your Honor --
23 THE COURT: -- and just again. I'm just trying to
24 get the framework here.
25 MR. STULL: Sorry.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
342
1 THE COURT: And then we're going to need to move
2 on, so -- get the case is tried before the -- the proper
3 body which is the jury. There was not such an exclusion
4 when he was taken to the hospital on the 20th?
5 MR. McMAHON: There is. And, Your Honor, if I can
6 make a proffer to the Court, that the exclusion notice
7 indicates, and this is pursuant to -- I'm drawing a blank
8 on the name of the statute. But he is allowed to return
9 for emergency treatment. And there's a -- and that is
10 indicated in the trespass ordering notice that he is
11 allowed to be present on Legacy Emanuel for the purpose of
12 emergency treatment --
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. McMAHON: -- which is what happened that
15 night.
16 THE COURT: Okay.
17 MR. McMAHON: And, again, as a brief proffer was
18 provided with at least two contact reports from Legacy
19 Emanuel -- contact reports, and they have the trespass on
20 the back in writing that he was given on -- it looks like
21 October 14th, 2011, and then July 14th, 2012, and --
22 THE COURT: And those were about unlimited
23 duration?
24 MR. McMAHON: Yeah. And what happened was in
25 addition on that night Mr. Stull was told that he had to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
343
1 leave the premises.
2 THE COURT: On the -- on the what?
3 MR. McMAHON: The charged incident of November 22,
4 2015.
5 THE COURT: Second -- right, right.
6 MR. STULL: Was again told he had to leave the
7 premises. It wasn't they saw him and arrested him. They
8 told him he had to leave, again, as a brief proffer. And
9 he refused to do so after multiple warnings. He was then
10 taken into custody. So he -- he was allowed and still is
11 allowed to be there for the purpose of medical treatment,
12 but it is a -- an exclusion of indefinite duration. And
13 so, that's sort of what's at issue.
14 THE COURT: But only for emergency medical
15 treatment?
16 MR. McMAHON: Exactly.
17 THE COURT: Not for walk in -- I have a sore
18 throat?
19 MR. McMAHON: Exactly. And it -- having spoken to
20 the witness, and I did represent this to Mr. Stull. He's
21 actually allowed back there as long as he calls security,
22 notifies them, and tells them I have an appointment with my
23 primary care physician.
24 THE COURT: I see.
25 MR. McMAHON: Something like that -- so. He just

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
344
1 has to notify security and tell them when his appointment
2 is. And he can't remain on the premises for longer than
3 the appointment. Like, he can't have a cup of coffee at
4 the Heartbeat Café or something like that.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. STULL: I'm glad you mentioned the Heartbeat
7 Café. Because the one he mentioned also, this -- this
8 trespass exclusion from 2011, the 14th, I had gone to
9 Emanuel Hospital emergency room by ambulance, was drinking
10 my coffee at the Heartbeat Café when I was approached by
11 security who said I smelled of alcohol, which was, in fact,
12 a lie.
13 THE COURT: Is this after you appointment --
14 MR. STULL: Yeah.
15 THE COURT: -- emergency appointment?
16 MR. STULL: Yeah. Okay. And so they arrested me
17 on the 14th, the day they gave me that exclusion.
18 THE COURT: This is October?
19 MR. STULL: Yeah. And they took me to jail.
20 MR. McMAHON: 2011.
21 THE COURT: 2011.
22 MR. STULL: And as I mentioned, the 15th, I was
23 back at Emanuel Hospital experiencing 45 minutes of
24 exclusive critical care to prevent circulatory failure to
25 get my heartbeat down from 175 beats a minute. And the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
345
1 District Attorney didn't even issue charges on the arrest
2 on the 14th that that traces back to. So they gave me a
3 trespass exclusion. They, in fact, arrested me --
4 THE COURT: And it was state --
5 MR. STULL: -- and it was --
6 THE COURT: It was stated in the document -- the
7 October date --
8 MR. STULL: And -- the two -- the first time --
9 THE COURT: 2011?
10 MR. STULL: The first time I had a trespass
11 exclusion.
12 THE COURT: Right. Right.
13 MR. STULL: I was drinking my coffee.
15 MR. STULL: They falsely accused me of drinking
16 alcohol. I protested. They arrested me, and that case
17 wasn't even issued --
19 MR. STULL: -- for me to defend.
20 THE COURT: All right. So there's a trespass --
23 MR. STULL: Okay. So here's why I'm here, Your
24 Honor, instead of Northeast Community Court. I'm playing
25 Russian roulette with security guards at Emanuel Hospital.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
346
1 I had mentioned this morning already, and I'll say it
2 again. I walked in and out of there on Friday because they
3 can't -- by Federal law -- they can't prohibit --
4 THE COURT: What -- what Friday are you talking
5 about?
6 MR. STULL: The 20th of --
7 THE COURT: Okay. The date of the -- this is the
8 weekend of the incident.
9 MR. STULL: You know, this is all regarding the
10 series of events.
11 THE COURT: Yeah.
12 MR. STULL: I went to the hospital. I was fine as
13 far as -- I went there. I left. I went back. I didn't
14 get to leave. I'm still here. I didn't get to leave. I
15 got arrested. I went to jail. I'm having a trial. I
16 didn't get to leave.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Well, that --
18 MR. STULL: So what Mr. --
19 THE COURT: Then that --
20 MR. STULL: -- Mr. McMahon is trying to say --
21 THE COURT: So that's going to be a matter of how
22 the evidence unfolds.
23 MR. STULL: So what he's trying to --
24 THE COURT: It's -- to what happened.
25 MR. STULL: -- he's trying to tell the Court is

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
347
1 that Emanuel Hospital's cool. That this, what they do to
2 me, is okay; that I can just go to the emergency room, and
3 I can leave. And -- and I'm not fine. And no I'm not,
4 Your Honor, because they arrested me. They approached me
5 from behind as I was exiting, and they arrested me, and I'm
6 here on that charge today. So to say that I was
7 remaining --
8 THE COURT: But that's going to be --
9 MR. STULL: -- as an element of the crime --
10 THE COURT: No.
11 MR. STULL: -- no, not at all.
12 THE COURT: Right, Mr. Stull. And --
13 MR. STULL: These guys are --
14 THE COURT: -- and I -- I understand your
15 argument.
16 MR. STULL: And this is my disability coming up.
17 I'm going to say it right now. These guys are thugs.
18 They're ruthless. They lie. And this District Attorney's
19 Office backs them. And we're going to have a trial. And
20 you're going to get to see just how vicious this has all
21 been. So if they're going to raise that I had a trespass
22 exclusion in 2011, I get to say, yes, and it wasn't
23 prosecuted, because I didn't commit a crime. And I went
24 back the next day, because that made me even sicker. I
25 should be able to say that. And I should be able to show

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
348
1 that documentation that my pulse was 175 beats a minute and
2 I could have died. Because what did the AMR guys say?
3 They showed up at my place on the 22nd of November, 2015,
4 and I said, I could die from this. How do I even come to
5 such a conclusion in my mind? Because I could have died in
6 2011 the day after they issued that first trespass
7 exclusion ever.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. STULL: Right. So I'm just --
10 THE COURT: I'm going to --
11 MR. STULL: -- I'm -- I'm angry about --
12 THE COURT: You have a --
13 MR. STULL: -- all this. And you're going to know
14 why by the time this is all done.
16 MR. STULL: And I'm tired --
17 THE COURT: -- I --
18 MR. STULL: -- of -- as a person who's sick. Now,
19 I'm going to be frank with you, Your Honor, because this is
20 just -- I'm -- I'm stopping this case. And I'm telling you
21 about my condition right now.
22 THE COURT: Okay. So what we're going to do --
23 MR. STULL: The Federal Government --
24 THE COURT: -- we're going to get --
25 MR. STULL: -- in its infinite wisdom -- excuse

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
349
1 me, in its infinite wisdom has determined that I woke up
2 today in a HUD -- Housing and Urban Development financed
3 through a grant because I'm a person with a disability.
4 All my -- my TriMed Pass I have in my pocket was provided
5 to me because I'm a person with a disability. TriMed
6 authorized me to be on their system, because they respect
7 that I'm a person with a disability. And I get dragged
8 into this process, which isn't healthy for many people.
9 And I get dragged into this process. And the State wants
10 to say that, no; you can't show these various episodes that
11 describe in -- in excruciating detail how extreme my
12 disability is. And I say that that's a civil rights
13 violation that this Court cannot allow.
14 So I'm -- I'm willing to -- I'm willing to win
15 this case on appeal. I'm willing to take it to a -- case
16 across the street if I need to -- across the park. I am
17 not going to continue to allow these thugs. As I'm here
18 this morning, my neck hurts because I was pushed out of the
19 doors at Lewis and Clark College where they charged me with
20 trespassing, unsuccessfully no less. But they dragged me
21 across the pavement, intentionally scarred my pavings -- my
22 head on the paving stones. The Multnomah County District
23 Attorney charged me unsuccessfully and wouldn't charge them
24 -- not for perjury which was proven, which is evidence in
25 Judge Marcus's order. They wouldn’t charge them for the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
350
1 assault on me, and they're here today charging me on this.
2 Which as I mentioned, I could have had far less effort and
3 had it dismissed through the Community Court process.
4 I do the community volunteer. I do the community
5 service hours as a -- as a good citizen. I could easily
6 just apply those to make this all go away. But if it
7 doesn’t go away, it means that the next time I get sick I'm
8 going to have to go through this all again. We're going to
9 have to go through what I went through in 2011 or what I
10 went through in 2012 until Emanuel Hospital's security gets
11 it together to build it from the exit to the property line.
12 It's still the property.
13 And what they tried to do is they tried to get me
14 to exit the fire exit with two security guards in the dark
15 of night where they were going to kick my ass just like
16 they did up at Lewis and Clark College. And the District
17 Attorney's going to back them just like they did at Lewis
18 and Clark College. So I'm not the problem. I have a
19 problem. I don't know how we're going to get out of it.
20 Thank you, Your Honor, for bearing with me.
21 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Mr. Stull, so just
22 two comments. One is -- and I must -- must clearly state
23 that a Court must follow the rules of evidence that pertain
24 to this charge.
25 MR. STULL: Absolutely.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
351
1 THE COURT: And, secondly, if there are matters
2 that need to be -- Mr. --
3 It's Kelly, right? I'm sorry.
4 MR. KELLEY: It is, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: -- that need to be addressed outside
6 the presence of the jury that -- that be made known to the
7 Court as -- as opposed to something being said in the
8 presence of the jury which could create a mistrial. And,
9 unfortunately, my jury room is not attached to my
10 courtroom. So whenever we have to take a matter outside of
11 the presence of the jury, we have to send the jury back
12 to -- around the corner there as opposed to in the old
13 days, we had a court clerk who physically lifted the
14 machine, go into chambers, and we could have an argument
15 without disturbing the jury. So I'm not saying that in any
16 way to discourage or quash or quell the need to have a
17 motion or a matter heard outside the presence of the jury,
18 but just to alert you that it -- it does take some time
19 when you do that, right?
20 And, again, thirdly, the evidence that comes in,
21 of course, is based -- must be grounded in what the law is
22 and must be looked at through the lens of the criminal
23 charge. And so I'm not making any determination at this
24 point as to what that evidence is. But I want it to be
25 very clear that this will not transform into however right

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
352
1 or wrong the basis is for your complaints against how
2 Emanuel Hospital and those who they employ or direct to act
3 as their agents, have treated you or have created
4 situations, which made it in your -- from your perspective
5 unlawful. I'm not in any way making judgment on that.
6 But I have the obligation that -- that would come
7 to the evidence here be through the lens of the criminal
8 charge, which comes down to, yes, there being a lawful
9 order. That would be intentionally or knowingly or
10 recklessly that there's a -- or germane. Because the
11 statute doesn't actually state, I should correct that. The
12 -- it needs to be a lawful order. So that's something that
13 we'll have to take up.
14 For example, for example, when in October of 2011
15 you say that you were trespassed as I understand it -- you
16 were trespassed from Emanuel Hospital except for emergency
17 situations.
18 Is that what you said, Mr. McMahon?
19 MR. McMAHON: Yes.
20 THE COURT: And yet you were not charged with any
21 trespass at that point. The Court's not going to allow
22 this to be a trial about whether that exclusion was lawful
23 or not. That is a matter that is outside the parameters of
24 this criminal charge. Just like with a conviction -- if a
25 conviction is entered that conviction, whether it's by

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
353
1 trial or by plea, is a conviction. And that -- the facts
2 that were presented to the trier of fact that resulted in a
3 conviction cannot be retried in a subsequent case.
4 MR. STULL: Sure.
5 THE COURT: So if there was a -- an Order of No
6 Trespass, then that is an order by which you would be
7 required to abide. If you believe that that was unlawful
8 in violation of the ADA or other reasons, then that would
9 be a matter that should have been brought or could have
10 been brought on a civil -- in a civil arena. Because the
11 Court can't --
13 THE COURT: -- look behind at what the -- what the
14 basis for that exclusion was. The -- the exclusion existed
15 at the time. And I don't know enough about what the --
17 THE COURT: -- exclusion said, and if there's any
18 paperwork to that or how that's going to be presented. I
19 understood from Mr. McMahon -- hold up -- held up a couple
20 documents there. So this is going to be, you know,
21 untangling as we go along.
23 THE COURT: But I -- I am trying to be as fair as
24 I can in -- in providing as, you know, much direction with
25 my knowledge of what this case involves. And I -- I've

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
354
1 never met you before, Mr. Stull. I know nothing about the
2 background in any other cases that you've been involved in
3 or tried or whatever.
4 MR. STULL: Yeah.
5 THE COURT: So I'm just gleaning from what you've
6 said this morning, what Mr. McMahon has said, Mr. Kelley
7 has said; what issues might come up here.
8 MR. STULL: Right. And -- and the only thing I --
9 I wanted to draw to your attention regarding your -- your
10 last statement was that the -- whether the order was
11 lawful. The order to leave was lawful would -- would trace
12 back to whether that trespass exclusion was lawful. And --
13 and that would be right through the language of that one
14 little section of Marbet, which I -- like I said at the
15 start, we have no guidance in Oregon law on this. And --
16 so we get to write the book.
17 So I don't know if anybody -- this is -- could
18 be -- I know it's a case of first impression in -- in
19 Oregon Appellate Record. So we -- we get to do that. So I
20 hope we're -- we're creating good law through this whole
21 process. And so I just want to -- want to say that that
22 qualification or in the law that the order has to be lawful
23 in order to be enforceable, I think that would bring in
24 those -- those other matters of whether the -- the
25 exclusion that they're -- they're encounter with me was

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
355
1 based on that, right?
2 THE COURT: Right. I mean I --
3 MR. STULL: So anyhow --
4 THE COURT: -- I was having to give it some --
5 some thought to off the top of my head just sort of an
6 analogous situation --
7 MR. STULL: Sure.
8 THE COURT: -- exists in criminal law.
9 MR. STULL: Yeah.
10 THE COURT: Where someone could end up being
11 charged with resisting arrest, but not for any other crime.
12 And it's often been a matter of contention where how can I
13 be charged with resisting arrest when you didn’t charge me
14 with any crime for which I would be resisting arrest. So
15 All right.
16 Any other motions?
17 MR. McMAHON: No, Your Honor. I guess Your
18 Honor's taking the -- the ones about the medical records
19 and the -- the civil matters under advisement or is that
20 still --
21 THE COURT: Well, I don't have enough information
22 yet to --
24 THE COURT: I don't have enough context. I
25 appreciate the context that's been given, but, you know,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
356
1 for purposes of jury selection --
2 (Discussion between Mr. Stull and his Legal
3 Advisor off the record.)
6 And I haven't seen any of the documents, so -- for
7 purposes of jury selection because there's -- has the note
8 rule into allow in or to keep out. But more importantly
9 for jury selection and opening statements, there shall be
10 no mention made of -- of the -- of there being a -- in the
11 Defense perspective an unlawful order over whatever's
12 contained in the disability -- ambulance records, because I
13 haven't ruled on whether that's admissible or not.
14 MR. STULL: Sure.
15 THE COURT: So again, to avoid a mistrial of your
16 presenting evidence that -- turns out you have no basis
17 possibly and possibly not, but that -- if it ends up
18 additional basis to present those records, and you said
19 those things to the jury not knowing that you can get that
20 evidence in --
22 THE COURT: -- that -- that could result in a -- a
23 mistrial. Okay. And so -- so it's -- puts everyone in a
24 bit of a disadvantage, because they don't know what
25 evidence can come in and what evidence isn't. So at this

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
357
1 point, there should be -- there shall be no reference in
2 jury selection or opening statement about the lawfulness of
3 a prior order or what's contained within the medical
4 records.
5 MR. STULL: Okay. Sure.
6 THE COURT: And then -- then after we have the --
7 the hearing, which if your witness is here, and so forth,
8 then it's suggested by Mr. Kelley that we take it up after
9 the State rests --
11 THE COURT: -- before the Defense case as to
12 what -- what shall be admissible, if anything. Okay?
13 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. I just have
14 a --
15 THE COURT: And -- and you would have the right to
16 reserve your opening statement, if you care, to until your
17 Defense case because you don't know what the evidence is
18 going to be. At this point the lawyer side of me is coming
19 out here --
20 MR. STULL: I can explain that some, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: -- but that's just a practical
22 solution to the fact you don't know yet what's going to be
23 allowed or not. So you can either go ahead with your
24 opening statement after Mr. McMahon's, or you can reserve
25 it, whichever you wish.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
358
1 MR. STULL: Okay. Okay. Just to inform the
2 Court, the trespass exclusion incident that they noted in
3 2012 -- July 2012, there -- this is what Emanuel's
4 submitted as discovery. That -- that they're -- they're
5 regarding two -- one of the ones that I told you about was
6 the day before the 45 minutes event. That was 2011, and
7 then 2012 -- and that matter's currently on the -- still in
8 the Appellate process. So -- we haven't really fleshed
9 that all out. So -- so anyhow, I just wanted to inform you
10 --
11 THE COURT: But it's still --
12 MR. STULL: But right --
13 THE COURT: -- just so we're clear. There --
15 THE COURT: -- there was an exclusion on -- in
16 July of 2012.
18 THE COURT: You -- your -- and there was a charge
19 of criminal trespass --
21 THE COURT: -- of which you were convicted that
22 you're appealing.
23 MR. STULL: Yeah. They --
24 THE COURT: Is that right?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
359
1 THE COURT: So it -- the conviction --
2 MR. STULL: That -- the --
3 THE COURT: -- as of today it still stands.
4 MR. STULL: Right.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 MR. STULL: Well, the -- yeah, and I've served the
7 sentence. But --
8 THE COURT: But --
9 MR. STULL: the -- the gist of that, Your Honor,
10 is that Emanuel security called the police and said I
11 refused treatment. Part of that's true. They did call the
12 police. I did not refuse treatment. So -- so anyhow, like
13 I said, I -- I am quite angry about this -- this whole
14 ongoing abuses by these thugs at Emanuel Hospital security.
15 I -- you know, they get away with lying, and they're not
16 going to stop lying until somebody holds them accountable.
17 And that's why I'm here this morning.
18 THE COURT: Let me ask you this. Have you brought
19 any civil actions against Emanuel Hospital, their security,
20 or anyone else as opposed to, you know, this -- this
21 approach of filing it through the criminal charges?
22 MR. STULL: I'm sorry, Your Honor, I'm laughing,
23 because I was talking to an old friend the other day. And
24 I said, could you believe it? That twice in my life I've
25 had mail from court stamped undeliverable, unable to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
360
1 forward, and when it was at my legal address? So, yeah.
2 My cases are funny. Funny thing happens with my cases,
3 right? So -- so anyhow, my -- my -- I could -- I could go
4 today. I could file against Emanuel Hospital for what they
5 did to me.
6 THE COURT: I'm not suggesting whether your do or
7 not, I'm just --
8 MR. STULL: No, no. But I said --
9 THE COURT: -- asking because you have so many
10 complaints against them.
11 MR. STULL: -- but I'm -- no --
12 THE COURT: I'm just asking if there has been any
13 action you've taken that would allow you to explore all
14 these things that you have --
15 MR. STULL: Well, the -- the only thing I have --
16 THE COURT: -- raised here.
17 MR. STULL: -- the only thing that's -- that's
18 crossing my mind, Your Honor, is -- and I'm -- would have
19 to check in the medical records. But I got punched in the
20 head by a guy -- I didn't know him. But he was -- you
21 know, obviously had problems -- the Central library -- and
22 I went up to Emanuel Hospital by ambulance. Trespass
23 exclusion was in effect. No problem. I went the Friday
24 before this -- this arrest, no problem. It -- it's -- like
25 I said, it's Russian roulette.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
361
1 I go there. I -- I go there to be on the Board of
2 Directors of -- of the neighborhood association, no
3 problem. I go to the ceremony to top off the building as
4 part of the, you know, building the hospital. And I go
5 there as an invited member of the Board of Directors and
6 the security guards come over, and they tell me I have to
7 leave because, hey, buddy, you've had your chance to get
8 some coffee and food. Move out of here, because they think
9 I'm a homeless person.
10 So as long as they think I'm a homeless person,
11 they're going to abuse me as a homeless person would be
12 abused, except I'm not a homeless person. And I'm not
13 going to accept their abuse. So that's just where I'm
14 coming from.
15 So I would -- I think it's important that the jury
16 knows, the fact-finder knows that I was at that very same
17 hospital two days earlier; went in and out without a hitch.
18 That I was at that hospital years earlier; went in and out
19 without a hitch. I've been going to that hospital since
20 the 1990's, if not the 1980's, so --
21 MR. KELLEY: She didn't say you can't talk about
22 that.
23 THE COURT: So I -- I don't want --
24 MR. KELLEY: They're not preventing you from
25 talking about that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
362
1 MR. STULL: I don't want to be -- be placed in a
2 situation as I'll say I was with Judge Roberts that the
3 only thing mattered was that minute right then. And
4 whatever my medical condition didn't matter. Whatever
5 happened the day before; whatever happened two days
6 before. I should inform you that that case I have the
7 motion for a new trial that I advised you we're going to
8 have to go to on the 5th, that was after this arrest,
9 because I got sicker when I got arrested coming out of the
10 emergency room and got out of the -- of jail at 2:30 in the
11 morning and got home at 6:00 in the morning. I was sicker.
12 None of this stuff makes me well.
13 And when I asked for a -- an ambulance over at
14 city hall they wouldn't give me one of those for 20
15 minutes. So that's my problem. I have a disability that I
16 need emergency treatment when I need it. And I can't get
17 it in the City of Portland, because we have all this other
18 stuff that's interfering with it.
19 And I am trying to crack this, Your Honor. I've
20 been working on this now for -- for five years. What is it
21 about the City of Portland where I get an ambulance
22 attendant. I get a doctor, and I get out. And
23 everything's fine -- and I get another ambulance attendant.
24 I get another -- I get security guards. And what do they
25 have to do with my medical care? Nothing but interference

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
363
1 and retaliation, and that's the part that I'm here to try
2 to address. So have been going to Emanuel Hospital and
3 with the exception of the security guards; whoever they are
4 I don’t know. Whatever rumors they're passing around about
5 who I am -- you have -- oh, he has a trespass exclusion.
6 We're going to arrest him. Right. Come up from me from
7 behind when I'm leaving? No way.
8 So I need to talk about my ongoing relationship
9 with Emanuel Hospital. And I can't do that if he's going
10 to object because that's irrelevant, and it has nothing to
11 do with it. And, frankly, it has everything to do with the
12 state of mind that I had.
13 As I mentioned this morning, as I speak, my neck
14 hurts because I was pushed out of the exit of the Lewis and
15 Clark College when they knew I was allowed. The place was
16 open to the public, and they knew who I was. I was making
17 waves at the college for their crookedness that is ongoing.
18 No -- no problem there.
19 THE COURT: So let me ask for clarification of
20 assault.
21 I understand, Mr. McMahon that you have
22 documentation that says that Mr. Stull from October of 2011
23 is excluded from Emanuel Hospital except for emergency
24 purposes -- emergency treatment purposes. Am I correct in
25 understanding that having not seen the document?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
364
1 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. I can -- maybe if
2 Your Honor would like to took a look at it. I can proffer
3 it to the Court.
4 THE COURT: And -- and I -- is there going to be
5 an objection to the introduction of that?
6 MR. KELLEY: For the motion or for the trial, Your
7 Honor?
8 THE COURT: For the trial?
9 MR. KELLEY: For the trial.
10 Do you have any objection to that? That's your
11 decision.
12 THE COURT: There's --
13 MR. STULL: If -- if he wants to enter it, Your
14 Honor, I want to be able to say that yes. And I was back
15 within a day, and my condition was worsened because, you
16 know, I couldn't be arrested. They were out of line. I
17 felt that they were out of line. How everyone --
18 THE COURT: Wait. Are you talking about October
19 of 2011?
20 MR. STULL: That was completely bogus.
21 THE COURT: Well, I know, but I -- I just wanted
22 to --
23 MR. KELLEY: What -- what she's asking is --
24 THE COURT: -- know what you're referring to.
25 MR. KELLEY: -- do you have any objections to --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
365
1 MR. STULL: No.
2 MR. KELLEY: -- the State offering this.
3 MR. STULL: And -- and, so you -- so -- just so
4 you understand how -- I'm -- I'm like on the next page over
5 where they referenced this in their --
6 THE COURT: Well, I -- I don't -- all I'm trying
7 to see --
8 MR. STULL: -- in their --
9 THE COURT: I don't want to look at the document
10 if --
11 MR. KELLEY: No.
12 THE COURT: -- if it's going to be objected to.
13 If it's not objected to then I want to look at the
14 document.
15 MR. McMAHON: It's the same back for both of them.
17 THE COURT: That's what I'm asking.
18 MR. STULL: Yeah. I'm sorry, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: So, Mr. McMahon had offered to provide
20 the document. And so I had asked if there was going to be
21 an objection to its introduction at trial before I looked
22 at it.
23 MR. STULL: But no -- no, Your Honor. My -- my
24 position is that there's -- I have -- there's not a thing
25 about my record in these matters that I'm afraid of that's

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
366
1 going to -- my reputation is sound. I -- and -- and, you
2 know, that's my problem that -- that I have to come into --
3 you know, that's why this is so difficult for me, Your
4 Honor, because I actually live in a society that doesn't
5 trigger my disability.
6 I can -- I can go months. I can go years,
7 perhaps. I mean, I'm still dealing with the nausea. I'm
8 still dealing with the pain. I’m still dealing with all
9 that kind of stuff, but I can -- I can go without my
10 disability being triggered, and then I'm a victim of a
11 crime. And then I go to Emanuel Hospital, because they
12 have the history with me. And then I get arrested. And
13 the guy that was the person that subjected me to that
14 doesn’t get arrested, or if he gets arrested he doesn't get
15 prosecuted.
16 THE COURT: Yeah.
17 MR. STULL: So I'm tired of being on this one-way
18 street.
19 THE COURT: For sure. I understand.
20 MR. KELLEY: May I make a suggestion, Your Honor?
21 And correct me if I'm wrong, Barry Joe. I don't believe my
22 client would object to admission of these documents, the
23 proposed documents --
24 MR. STULL: No.
25 MR. KELLEY: -- if he can talk about the complete

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
367
1 history --
2 MR. STULL: If I can talk about --
3 MR. KELLEY: -- of Legacy --
5 MR. STULL: Yeah.
6 MR. KELLEY: -- the times that he wasn't excluded,
7 for example.
8 THE COURT: Well, that's -- that's not a decision
9 the Court's going to make at this point, because this is
10 not going to be, as I said, an open trial incorporating
11 all -- when I say open trial, it's not going to be a -- an
12 open trial that incorporates all civil complaints as well
13 as --
14 MR. KELLEY: I understand.
15 MR. STULL: Yeah. Yeah.
16 THE COURT: -- a defense to the criminal --
17 MR. KELLEY: From his perspective --
18 THE COURT: -- charge.
19 MR. KELLEY: To pick and choose the incidents that
20 are not favorable would be prejudicial and --
21 THE COURT: Well, it -- this is the -- this is the
22 document --
24 THE COURT: -- that states the basis upon which
25 Mr. Stull would be allowed to access Emanuel Hospital that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
368
1 is for emergency treatment purposes. And the document in
2 which then otherwise prohibits him from being at Emanuel
3 Hospital. And so, it is an appropriate document from the
4 Court's perspective to be allowed into evidence, but you
5 always have a right to make an objection. The Court can
6 overrule your objection.
7 MR. STULL: Certainly.
8 THE COURT: -- or sustain your objection. And I'm
9 only trying to be very cautious and not even looking at a
10 document if there's going to be some argument about it.
12 THE COURT: So my -- my -- without going further
13 as to what that will allow in terms of other evidence, I'm
14 simply asking are you going to object or not object to the
15 introduction of the document, which states that on October
16 11, 2011, or October whatever 2011, that there was an order
17 issued to exclude you from Emanuel Hospital except for
18 emergency treatment?
19 MR. STULL: You know, I don't -- I don't know that
20 it says the except for emergency treatment on it.
21 THE COURT: Well, I haven't see it. That's --
22 MR. STULL: -- on the document.
23 THE COURT: That --
24 MR. STULL: Maybe -- maybe Mr. Kelley can -- can
25 say that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
369
1 THE COURT: Well, I haven't seen the document.
2 MR. STULL: But I believe, Your Honor, without any
3 real foundation the -- the -- to say that. But I believe
4 it's actually a federal law that you cannot refuse
5 emergency room treatment.
6 THE COURT: And that’s not my question.
7 MR. STULL: Right.
8 THE COURT: My question was are you going to
9 object to the introduction of the document?
10 MR. STULL: Right. Well, so -- so -- no, I was
11 only saying that the part that says -- you said two things.
12 One is the exclusion which says I am prohibited. And the
13 other one is the one that I'm allowed to go there for
14 emergency --
15 MR. KELLEY: The back of the card says --
16 MR. STULL: -- it says that?
17 MR. KELLEY: The back of the card says except for
18 to receive emergency medical care.
19 MR. STULL: Yeah.
20 MR. KELLEY: That's on the back of the card.
21 MR. STULL: Okay. Yeah. That's on there. Yeah.
22 So I have no problem with that.
24 MR. STULL: Yeah.
25 THE COURT: So no objection. So now could I --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
370
1 understanding that it's not going to be objection, at the
2 time appropriate at trial for this to be introduced by the
3 State --
5 THE COURT: -- I will now take a look at it.
6 MR. McMAHON: And it is -- is marked as State's
7 Exhibit 1.
8 THE COURT: And again, Mr. Stull, this is just
9 simply to give me a little heads-up
10 MR. STULL: No. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm --
11 (Pause while Mr. Kelley and the Defendant confer.)
12 THE COURT: All right. Any other motions at this
13 time?
14 MR. McMAHON: Just a cautionary. The State would
15 sort of preemptively raise objection to reference -- the
16 only reason this would be introduced in another exhibit and
17 be discussed is for the basis of this trespass. I’m not
18 going to go anymore into the facts than are necessary to
19 establish that trespass. The State would object to any
20 references to other encounters, other treatment. We
21 can't -- those issues aren't in trial today.
22 What's on trial today is November 22, 2015. And
23 the State is concerned by Mr. Stull's kind of indicative
24 proclivity to talk about events that occurred while outside
25 of the scope of the facts in this case. And the State is

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
371
1 concerned that that sort of information is not proper for a
2 jury to hear. And so the State would request that the Court
3 limit or at least instruct Mr. Stull to narrow his -- his
4 questioning, his opening, his questioning of witnesses to
5 the incidents that are at issue here, and not whether or not
6 he was trespass on a given day at a given time if he got
7 emergency medical treatment.
8 He may well have been in compliance with that
9 notice for getting medical treatment and then leaving. But
10 that’s not at trial -- on trial here. What's on trial today
11 is whether or not he trespassed on November 22, 2015. And
12 so I ask the Court to limit the testimony to the basis for
13 the exclusion and then the events of that night, and it --
14 evidence pertaining to those facts and the charges.
16 And, Mr. Stull, I've heard extensively your
17 argument as to reasons you think that other evidence of
18 earlier incidents should come in. Is there anything else
19 you want to add to that?
20 MR. STULL: Yeah. I mean, it -- it's just that as
21 Mr. Kelley articulated to only be able to show that here's
22 an incident where I was arrested, and here's an incident
23 where I was given the trespass -- there's -- there -- I
24 should be able to say that, yes, but on that Friday before I
25 went in and out with no problem.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
372
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. STULL: And these other incidences I went in
3 and out with no problem. Because my argument, Your Honor,
4 and -- and I don’t know what's happening here with this
5 logic that doesn't -- doesn’t fly past this line here. But
6 there was no way that I wanted to stay at Emanuel Hospital
7 under those circumstances. The only reason I'm here today
8 is because they arrested me in the process of leaving --
9 because I wasn't leaving? That’s -- that’s absolutely --
10 it --
11 THE COURT: So -- Mr. --
12 MR. STULL: -- it's fundamentally absurd. So --
13 so --
14 THE COURT: But that, Mr. Stull, -- that, Mr.
15 Stull, is --
16 MR. STULL: How am I supposed -- and excuse me,
17 Your Honor, how can I convince that jury that I've --
18 that -- how can I convince the jury that I was in the
19 process of leaving when I was approached from behind. Which
20 we have that. We already know, because Emanuel's going to
21 say they approached me from behind. It's in their report.
22 So we already know I was leaving when I was approached from
23 behind. But we don't know that I was leaving Friday before
24 that, and we were leaving whenever I got, you know, taken
25 out of the Central Library when I -- when I got punched by

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
373
1 somebody I didn't even know. You know, I -- I know how to
2 go in and out of there.
3 THE COURT: Sure.
4 MR. STULL: I know how to go in and out of there
5 with an -- with an escort by security all the way to the
6 property line. This is not my first time interacting with
7 these folks.
8 THE COURT: Right.
9 MR. STULL: And -- and so I feel it's fundamentally
10 unfair to -- to cherry-pick and say well, was he leaving or
11 not, jury? Well, I was leaving on Friday. I was leaving
12 the time before that. I was leaving the time before that.
13 I don't know how many times I -- and -- and the 2012 thing
14 is absolutely absurd, because they say in their own report
15 that -- that I refused medical treatment -- the security
16 guards said.
17 THE COURT: Yeah. So, Mr. Stull --
18 MR. STULL: Yeah. So -- so anyhow --
19 THE COURT: Sure.
20 MR. STULL: -- I'm just saying that I have an
21 ongoing experience with these people. And I don’t think
22 it's fair to cherry-pick because that -- because it's just
23 not fair.
25 MR. STULL: That's all, Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
374
1 THE COURT: Okay. And again --
2 MR. STULL: I -- I don't think --
3 THE COURT: -- again --
4 MR. STULL: -- I can say anything more about that.
5 THE COURT: Sure. I -- I understand your
6 argument --
7 MR. STULL: But -- but --
8 THE COURT: -- completely. And, again, I just have
9 to reiterate that at this -- this is a criminal case. And
10 so any evidence that is allowed has to be allowable within
11 the confines of the evidence that pertain to the criminal
12 charge.
14 THE COURT: So this is -- this is what the Court is
15 going to order as far as opening statement, jury selection
16 process; direct and cross-examination of witnesses. That
17 you will be allowed, and I can change the ruling depending
18 upon what happens at the 104 Hearing. But you will be
19 allowed to bring in evidence as to what happened from Friday
20 the 20th through Sunday the 22nd. Okay? In terms of your
21 going to the hospital for emergency treatment, you don't
22 have documentation as to what was given to you as the exit
23 instructions, which you say was, you know, return if, you
24 know, further problems or if necessary. But, as Mr. Kelley
25 pointed out, there -- it may come in, the evidence. I'm not

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
375
1 saying whether it will or not. Not for the matter of the
2 truth asserted if that was what the directions were. But
3 with respect to the impact upon your mental state that based
4 upon what you understood, you believed you could return on
5 Sunday -- all right -- for emergency medical treatment. All
6 right.
7 I'm going to disallow any introduction of any
8 evidence of other times you've been at Emanuel Hospital
9 prior to November 20th. And the -- the October 11th
10 order -- October 14th, 2011, order is stipulated evidence
11 and that, again, is -- I have analogized to resisting
12 arrest. There can be an order for trespass that doesn't
13 result in a charge for trespass. But it has been issued,
14 and it -- it includes a warning as to what happens if you
15 come back other than for emergency medical care, that you
16 will be subject to arrest for criminal trespass besides the
17 statute. And so that will be in evidence.
18 And what happened from the 20th through the 22nd
19 you will be allowed to reference at this point. I could
20 change my mind depending upon what the evidence is since
21 we're doing this, you know, based upon summations of what
22 anticipating the evidence would be and what your experience
23 has been. I've listened very carefully to it. But through
24 the lens of criminal trial that's what is going to be
25 allowed.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
376
1 So questioning that goes prior to November 20th is
2 disallowed or any reference to that other incidences where
3 you've been able to come and go. But you will be able to
4 access, and -- and I'm not saying what evidence will come in
5 through the records there. Again, I'm hampered by not
6 having had the ability to listen to the witnesses and hear
7 argument after that -- but at this point, the prohibition
8 against anything that occurred before November 20th.
9 MR. STULL: Okay. I have one important point that,
10 for me, life affirming 45 minutes of exclusive critical care
11 to prevent circulatory failure. I -- I was conscious in
12 the --
13 THE COURT: What date are you talking about now?
14 MR. STULL: I'm talking the day after the initial
15 trespass exclusion. The 15th of -- November. Are we
16 talking November?
17 THE COURT: October -- November -- yeah, but are
18 you talking 2011, or 2000 --
19 MR. STULL: Yeah. In 2011, the day after their
20 trespass exclusion --
21 THE COURT: Yeah.
22 MR. STULL: -- which is going to come in as
23 evidence, I received 45 minutes of exclusive critical care
24 to prevent circulatory failure. My pulse was 175 beats a
25 minute.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
377
1 THE COURT: No. You are talking you were back at
2 Emanuel Hospital?
3 MR. STULL: The next day.
4 THE COURT: Yeah. Because you needed emergency
5 treatment?
6 MR. STULL: Yes.
7 THE COURT: And you were admitted there and
8 provided that emergency treatment?
9 MR. STULL: The important part isn't that I went to
10 Emanuel Hospital. The important point is that I went to
11 the -- an emergency room and I received 45 minutes of
12 exclusive critical care to get my pulse down --
14 MR. STULL: -- from 175 beats a minute. That's --
15 that one forms my analysis of my -- my medical condition,
16 Your Honor.
18 MR. STULL: Up to that point I didn't know that I
19 could even do that and live through it, and I did both,
20 right? And so -- so part of the nature of my disability is
21 that it is life-threatening. It's hard to believe it here
22 now, but it was the day after their initial trespass
23 exclusion in 2011. So -- so without it being -- it's not
24 hearsay that I was at an emergency room watching the -- the
25 meter saying my pulse was 175 beats a minute.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
378
1 THE COURT: Right.
2 MR. STULL: I was conscious during all of that.
3 THE COURT: I’m not sure what --
4 MR. STULL: But that was before the 20th of
5 November --
6 THE COURT: Right.
7 MR. STULL: -- 2015, because that was in 2011.
8 THE COURT: Right. And --
9 MR. STULL: So I'm still the person with that.
10 That -- that's why I called the ambulance, because I don't
11 have a lot of time -- I don’t have a lot of window once --
12 THE COURT: On November 20th you're talking about
13 now?
14 MR. STULL: Well, both --
15 THE COURT: You called the ambulance on November
16 20th. That's why you went to the hospital on whatever --
17 October 15th or --
18 MR. STULL: But -- but all --
19 THE COURT: -- 2011. Right. And both times you
20 were admitted and received emergency treatment.
21 MR. STULL: Right. But the reason I go is to
22 prevent a --
23 THE COURT: Sure.
24 MR. STULL: -- revisiting of that 175 beats a
25 minute that happened --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
379
1 THE COURT: So you're -- you're concerned that --
2 you -- to the outsider it would not appear that you needed
3 emergency treatment, but you know the warning signs. You
4 know the concerns, and so that leads you to call an
5 ambulance or go to the emergency room for emergency
6 treatment.
7 MR. KELLEY: You don't even have to mention it was
8 at Legacy.
9 THE COURT: Is -- is that -- do I understand your
10 point to be that --
11 MR. STULL: Right. Yeah.
12 THE COURT: Yeah. And so --
13 MR. STULL: And, Your Honor, I don't have to
14 mention that it was Legacy. I just have to mention that --
15 that I know from personal experience that my disability
16 causes my heart to go to uncontrollable levels that need
17 emergency treatment then. I mean, I could -- we could show
18 you the document. We already have all that.
19 THE COURT: Right. But I don't -- I don't think
20 that's going to be relevant to what I've said that you
21 can -- you -- you felt the need to call an ambulance to go
22 to Emanuel on November 20th. That's going to be allowed.
23 MR. STULL: Okay. But what -- what -- where maybe
24 I'm -- I'm confused is in saying that -- but that's based on
25 experience that I had years earlier --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
380
1 THE COURT: Right.
2 MR. McMAHON: -- but it's an ongoing threat to me.
3 THE COURT: Without referencing any particular
4 incident, experience, whatever, you -- I'm thinking this
5 through as I speak, but you would be able to testify as to
6 your assessment of your symptoms which could be life-
7 threatening that causes you to call an ambulance based upon,
8 you know, prior diagnosis and your -- the warning symptoms
9 that you feel.
10 MR. STULL: Okay.
11 THE COURT: Period. Without going into how many
12 times you've been there and what causes you to -- to do
13 that. That you have an awareness based upon a diagnosis,
14 and based upon the symptoms that accompany a flare-up of
15 that condition.
16 MR. STULL: And the whole issue of circulatory
17 failure.
18 THE COURT: Well, but you don't need to go into all
19 that. And -- because I'm allowing you to say that based
20 upon a diagnosis you've received that you -- you know the
21 warning signs that require emergency treatment. And,
22 therefore, you respond to that by calling an ambulance and
23 going to the hospital.
24 MR. STULL: That will work with me, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Right. Without going into --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
381
1 MR. STULL: That’s fine.
2 THE COURT: -- the ups and downs and -- of all
3 the -- the past incidents. Okay.
4 MR. STULL: Okay.
5 THE COURT: Because you are allowed to go there for
6 emergency. I mean, you know, it's the people who have heart
7 attacks symptoms, you know, you never know whether it's
8 really a heart attack or not. But some people make the
9 mistake of not going to the hospital and die.
10 MR. STULL: Yeah.
11 THE COURT: Other people who go to the hospital and
12 find out, you know, it's a -- like a I guess a spasm of your
13 esophagus, and it's not a heart attack.
14 MR. STULL: Okay.
15 THE COURT: But you know the symptoms, and you know
16 that you're in trouble. And so the prudent thing to do is
17 to go to the hospital --
18 MR. STULL: Okay.
19 THE COURT: -- for emergency treatment. But
20 that's -- that will be the confines of that discussion. So,
21 in other words, if your concern is that you're -- the jury
22 might believe that you were just trying to cause chaos or
23 something at the hospital, and, therefore, you were going to
24 the hospital just to cause chaos. No. You will be able to
25 say that based on the diagnosis, you have have flare-ups of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
382
1 a condition. You know the warning symptoms and the signs
2 and, therefore, you respond to it by seeking emergency
3 treatment --
4 MR. STULL: Okay.
5 THE COURT: -- and going to the hospital.
6 MR. STULL: All right. Thank you, Your Honor.
8 Mr. McMahon, anything further?
9 MR. McMAHON: No, Your Honor. I think we're ready
10 for a jury if the Court's ready for that.
12 Ready to call the jury?
13 MR. STULL: Yes.
14 THE COURT: All right. So let me also State before
15 we get to that process if -- I've been requested by one of
16 our state officials to do the swearing in ceremony to
17 administer the oath tomorrow at noon. Fortunately it's
18 going to be in Portland and not in Salem. But that means,
19 just for your scheduling of any witnesses --
21 THE COURT: -- that I will need to depart by --
22 well, let's say 11:20 to be safe. Because I have to be
23 there at noon and probably have to be before noon, so let's
24 say 11:15. All right? And then -- then we'll resume at
25 1:30 on that date.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
383
1 THE COURT: Barring any other circumstances I'm not
2 aware.
3 MR. McMAHON: Okay. And, Your Honor, how do you
4 number the?
5 THE COURT: So a six person jury -- we'll have a --
6 I'll give you your choice. If you want them in the front --
7 I assume you want them in the front row not the back row.
8 So Number 1's going to be left front.
10 THE COURT: Okay? And then six will be right
11 front. And so you -- are you requesting an alternate?
12 MR. McMAHON: No. I don't believe --
13 MR. KELLEY: No.
14 Do you want an alternate? There you go? All
15 right.
17 MR. KELLEY: Probably not necessary.
18 THE COURT: -- how long do you anticipate the case
19 will be?
20 MR. STULL: Your Honor, this part actually went a
21 little bit quicker than I expected. My witnesses will take
22 an hour combined maybe. I don't know how long Mr. Stull's
23 cross-examination is.
24 MR. KELLEY: We had reported two days since they
25 reported three. I'm hoping two days.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
384
1 MR. McMAHON: I’m -- I'm thinking based on how
2 things have clipped along so far --
3 MR. KELLEY: Yeah.
4 MR. McMAHON: -- we may be done tomorrow morning --
5 we may be -- if -- it depends if -- I don't know if Mr.
6 Stull's witnesses are available this afternoon, but --
7 MR. KELLEY: I subpoenaed them for today, because
8 the hearing is today. But I told them that they probably
9 wouldn't be testifying until tomorrow. So I don't really
10 expect them here until tomorrow.
11 MR. McMAHON: Perhaps you could call them at lunch,
12 and we'll see if we can get them down here. Because I think
13 that if we've got an hour -- I've done jury selection with
14 Mr. Stull before. I anticipate we're likely to have a jury
15 by lunch or shortly thereafter -- after the lunch break. So
16 I think --
17 MR. KELLEY: The State has five witnesses
18 apparently I've been told?
19 MR. McMAHON: Five potential --
21 MR. McMAHON: -- I might be able to call as few as
22 two. So --
23 THE COURT: And, Mr. Stull and Mr. Kelley, you have
24 a witness list. Have you decided if you're going to call
25 who you're going to call?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
385
1 MR. KELLEY: We submitted two --
2 THE COURT: And the only reason I asked --
3 MR. KELLEY: We submitted two, Your Honor, but
4 both --
5 THE COURT: Right.
6 MR. KELLEY: -- paramedics from American --
7 THE COURT: Right.
8 MR. KELLEY: -- Medical Response --
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 MR. KELLEY: -- and I would anticipate Mr. Stull
11 will wish to testify.
12 THE COURT: Okay. And the reason I asked, Mr.
13 Stull, so -- so you're clear is the Court has an obligation
14 to announce the names of any potential witnesses --
15 MR. STULL: Sure.
16 THE COURT: -- to determine if the jurors are
17 familiar with any of those folks. I -- I will not announce
18 you as potential witness. You have the ultimate discretion
19 as to whether to testify or not. So I never announce the
20 Defendant as --
21 MR. STULL: Sure.
22 THE COURT: -- even if you tell me you're going to
23 testify in case you change your mind.
24 MR. STULL: Yeah. Sure.
25 THE COURT: And then, you know, jurors wonder why

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
386
1 you didn't testify.
2 MR. KELLEY: Well, wouldn't that be covered in
3 the --
4 THE COURT: Yes. It will, but -- but --
5 MR. STULL: -- if they know me anyhow? So --
6 THE COURT: Sure. But if I say you are going to
7 testify and listen to you as a witness --
8 MR. STULL: Right.
9 THE COURT: -- and you're the Defendant, and then
10 you don't testify.
12 THE COURT: That makes them wonder about things
13 they shouldn't wonder about despite the instruction that
14 comes.
15 MR. KELLEY: Perhaps I should mention -- it's a
16 little unusual having a legal advisor, but Mr. Stull knows
17 how to pick a jury and he intends to -- to try the whole
18 case himself, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Sure. No, I -- I can appreciate that
20 you are well-versed without the law degree in the laws of
21 this land. So --
22 MR. KELLEY: And, Your Honor, just --
23 THE COURT: -- and processes I believe, but I
24 haven't seen that yet. You've tried other cases on your
25 own?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
387
1 MR. STULL: Yes.
2 THE COURT: Pro se -- yeah.
3 MR. McMAHON: And just to clarify, and -- and
4 nothing against Mr. Kelley, but I -- I think it's -- it
5 would not be proper for Mr. Kelley to make objections, or
6 interject, or make legal arguments any way other than in an
7 advisory capacity to Mr. Stull, or to interject a question,
8 or do anything especially in front of -- front of the
9 presence of the jury. Because Mr. Stull is functioning as
10 his own counsel, and -- and --
11 THE COURT: That -- that's absolutely correct. You
12 either have an attorney or you don't have an attorney. If
13 you are representing yourself, then you are responsible for
14 all phases of the trial. And you -- your legal advisor is
15 one who advises as to procedures and so forth. Decisions
16 that you make as to whether your testify or not, if Mr.
17 Kelley is willing to advise you as to that that's fine, but
18 he's not obligated to, because -- and I've been on this
19 bench for 22 years. And -- and what happens in that
20 situation -- Mr. Kelley advises you not to testify and then
21 you get convicted and then you say, you know, Mr. Kelley,
22 you're a lawyer. You advised me not to testify. So I'm
23 going to now sue you under the post-conviction relief for
24 that. And so, I do have a pretty -- I have a very strict
25 rule that legal advisors are to advise as to process, not to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
388
1 provide legal advice unless the lawyer wants to do so at
2 their own peril.
3 MR. STULL: Okay.
4 THE COURT: It's hard to have two captains of the
5 ship, and if you decided to represent yourself, you're the
6 captain of the ship.
7 THE COURT: Certainly.
8 THE COURT: And the legal advisor, I think, is very
9 important for you to have, and I'm always very thankly
10 pleased that somebody will act in that -- in that position,
11 because I think it's very difficult for a lawyer to be in
12 that position. And so I -- I do -- we'll lay that out as
13 what the role is of the legal advisor by this process not
14 substantively -- substantive --
15 MR. KELLEY: I appreciate that clarification, Your
16 Honor.
17 THE COURT: -- in -- and -- and then if the lawyer
18 decides to do that, that is their choice. Okay?
19 Now, Mr. Kelley is sitting at counsel table.
20 And do you have any problem with that, Mr. McMahon?
21 MR. McMAHON: Absolutely not, Your Honor. I would
22 ask for minute to go outside. I want to make sure my
23 witnesses know not to discuss the case after the trial
24 begins.
25 THE COURT: Is there a motion to exclude witnesses?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
389
1 MR. McMAHON: There's not, but I think out of an
2 abundance of caution, I might just let them know.
3 THE COURT: Okay. So ordered. I think that's
4 probably a good idea.
6 THE COURT: Okay. So now do I have your witness --
7 MR. STULL: And I apologize. It's not identified,
8 yet, Your Honor. That’s why --
9 THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to step into
10 chambers --
11 MR. STULL: So do you understand about reserving --
12 THE COURT: Let's take a -- a -- Mr. McMahon --
13 everybody take a five-minute break here.
14 MR. STULL: Sure.
15 THE COURT: Use the facilities or whatever. And
16 you can collect your thoughts if you need to talk about
17 anything now that we've had a long discussion on. Let --
18 let's take a -- we'll call for the jury in about five
19 minutes, and then it'll take another five minutes when they
20 get up here.
21 MR. STULL: Okay.
22 THE CLERK: (Indiscernible)?
23 THE COURT: Yeah.
25 MR. McMAHON: Thank, Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
390
1 THE COURT: So -- yeah, so be back by no later than
2 10 after.
3 MR. KELLEY: Very good.
4 (Break taken from 11:03 a.m. to 11:29 a.m.)
5 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were held in
6 open court in the presence of the potential jury:)
7 THE COURT: Good morning, members of our community
8 and Happy New Year. Appreciate you all being here. I'll
9 address that matter further. This is Taya Brown. She's my
10 clerk. She's going to just first make sure that you're all
11 here and then we'll begin the proceedings.
12 THE CLERK: I think I'm going to start to seat you
13 anyway, and then we'll figure out where the other person is
14 going to sit. So when I call your name off then you can
15 move to sit. So Molly Richtor -- Richtor (ph)?
16 Also, if I mispronounce your name, please bear with
17 me.
18 In the next chair is Ryan Pauling (ph). Brian
19 White (ph). Larry Cramer (ph). Kyle Rondrupone (ph).
20 MR. REDRONDRUPON: Rondrupone.
21 THE CLERK: And then Robert Hodell (ph).
22 MR. HODELL: Hodell?
23 THE CLERK: Hodell, yes. And then Lorna Helser
24 (ph). Stay where you're seated actually. Amanda Fritz (ph)
25 the next chair. Jacqueline Bordette (ph). And then Olivia

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
391
1 Cross (ph) would be right here. Pollyanna Hancock-Moody
2 (ph) -- right there. Susan Bladholm (ph) right here.
3 Nathan Kersey (ph)
4 MR. KERSEY: You all ought to come over here. And
5 I'm hopping in this lady in front. Janet Renfro (ph) next
6 to him. Next one -- Leslie (ph) -- someone help me -- how
7 do you say your last name?
8 MS. VALACUPLANOGE: Valacupalonge (ph).
9 THE CLERK: Valacupalonge. And then Bruce Johnson
10 (ph) goes right there. And Kenneth Shucow (ph).
11 MR. SHUCOW: Sucrow.
12 THE CLERK: Sucrow. Next to him is Babbette
13 Huggins (ph).
14 MS. HUGGINS: Huggins.
15 THE CLERK: Huggins. Right next to him, and then
16 you'll be next. And, Mr. Johnson, yes.
17 THE COURT: We have everybody?
18 THE CLERK: Yeah. We're good.
19 THE COURT: All right. Good morning again, and
20 once again thank you for being here responding to your
21 summons. I just want to say at the outset how important
22 your presence here is to our trying civil cases and criminal
23 cases. It's the beginning of a new year. Fortunately we
24 don't have to deal the snow as we did at the end of last
25 year for several jury trials.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
392
1 If -- if you hadn't responded -- even if you'd end
2 up not sitting on a case today, our jury process would not
3 be able to go forward for the Grand Juries, trials of civil
4 or criminal cases. So please know that we value your
5 presence. We hope you all get the opportunity to serve on a
6 -- on a jury because it's such an important part of being a
7 member of -- of this community. I would, again, your
8 presence is greatly valued.
9 So now before we begin, I want to make sure that
10 all cell phones, PDA's, laptops, and other electronic
11 devices are turned off, and they must remain turned-off
12 while we are in session. At any -- any time you have any
13 questions, please raise your hand, and my clerk, Taya Brown,
14 as I've introduced her to you, will acknowledge. And if you
15 speak communication it would be through Ms. Brown to me.
16 Today we're selecting a trial -- jury for a trial
17 in a criminal case. It's the State of Oregon versus Barry
18 Joe Stull. Now, the State is represented by Eamon McMahon.
19 MR. McMAHON: Good morning.
20 THE COURT: And the Defendant, Mr. Stull, is
21 representing himself in this case. And he is accompanied by
22 his Legal Advisor Kevin Kelley.
23 MR. KELLEY: Good morning.
24 THE COURT: The Defendant is charged with the
25 offense of criminal trespass in the second degree, which

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
393
1 alleges as follows: that the Defendant, Barry Joe Stull, on
2 or about November 22, 2015, in the County of Multnomah,
3 State of Oregon, did unlawfully and intentionally,
4 knowingly, and recklessly enter and remain in and upon the
5 premises located at 2801 North Gantenbein Avenue, Portland,
6 Oregon. It's Emanuel Hospital -- contrary to the statutes
7 in this case and provided, and against the peace and dignity
8 of the State of Oregon.
9 To this offense the Defendant has entered a plea of
10 not guilty. A plea of not guilty denies that the Defendant
11 is guilty of the offense. Under our system of justice, the
12 Defendant is innocent of any crime or wrong-doing unless and
13 until the State proves the Defendant's guilt beyond a
14 reasonable doubt. Therefore, the burden is on the State to
15 prove the Defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
16 Now some of you may have served as jurors in civil
17 cases where lesser standards of proof apply. For example,
18 proof by preponderance of the evidence or proof by clear and
19 convincing evidence. In criminal cases, however, the
20 State's proof must be more convincing. It must be beyond a
21 reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt is doubt based on common
22 sense and reason. Reasonable doubt means that there is an
23 honest uncertainty as to the guilt of the Defendant.
24 As a juror, you must return a verdict of not guilty
25 if, after careful and impartial consideration of all the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
394
1 evidence in the case, you are not convinced to a moral
2 certainty that the Defendant is guilty. Each juror must be
3 able to judge the case fairly and objectively. Therefore,
4 if any juror knows of or has any association with any of the
5 parties, lawyers, or witnesses, or if any juror has any
6 knowledge of or has formed any opinion about this case, this
7 should be brought to the Court's attention.
8 All right. So first, do any of you know the
9 Defendant, Barry Joe Stull, or the State's Deputy District
10 Attorney, Mr. McMahon -- Eamon McMahon or Mr. Stull's legal
11 advisor, Kevin Kelly? Any of you know or are acquainted
12 with any of those three individuals? All right. No one has
13 raised his or her hand.
14 One second here. Secondly, the following persons
15 may be called as witnesses in this case. And so, again, if
16 any of you know any of these persons or are familiar with
17 them, please raise your hand. David Davies (ph),
18 Christopher Dotson (ph), Mario Gochez-Chincilla (ph) --
19 MR. McMAHON: Chincilla -- yes.
20 THE COURT: Chincilla, yes.
21 THE COURT: Officer Jena Lemke -- L-e-m-k-e, and
22 Officer Joshua Silverman? Also Jakob Beutler, B-e-u-t-l-e-
23 r, and Aric; A-r-i-c Johnson. Aric Johnson. Do any of you
24 know any of those individuals? Familiar with those names?
25 All right.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
395
1 Yes?
2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is David Davies an
3 employee -- does he work at Emanuel Hospital?
4 MR. McMAHON: Yes.
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I may know that person.
7 THE COURT: All right. Is your familiarity with
8 that person such that it would affect your ability to try
9 this case fairly or impartially?
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Possibly.
11 THE COURT: In what capacity do you know him? You
12 work at Emanuel Hospital?
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just resigned from there
14 effective last week.
15 THE COURT: All right. And in what capacity do you
16 know Mr. Davies?
17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: His -- is that Dr. Davies?
18 THE COURT: Is -- is he a doctor?
19 MR. McMAHON: No.
20 THE COURT: He's not a doctor. David Davies, not a
21 doctor according to Mr. McMahon.
22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay. Then I -- then I
23 don't know that person.
24 THE COURT: You don't know that person. All right.
25 Anyone else familiar with any of the names? Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
396
1 And third, do any of you feel that your personal
2 views concerning this type of case might affect your ability
3 to be fair and impartial in this case?
4 Okay.
5 Yes.
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I work for Legacy Health.
8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And I don't know if that --
9 and I'm currently working for them.
10 THE COURT: You currently work with them. And what
11 capacity do you serve there?
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I am a -- I work for a
13 foundation that I'm writing for.
14 THE COURT: Okay. All right. And knowing that
15 this is a charge of criminal trespass in the second degree
16 with the location being Emanuel Hospital, do you believe
17 that you could try this case fairly and impartially?
18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Now the -- the lawyers may want
20 to ask further questions of the two of you who raised your
21 hands, but at this point you are still certainly eligible to
22 serve as a juror in this case.
23 Anyone else? Any concerns? All right. The
24 lawyers are going to begin asking you questions in a moment.
25 First the Court is going to have you answer these eight or

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
397
1 nine question here, which just provide a little bit of a
2 biographical sketch so the lawyers can get a little bit of
3 context before they ask their questions of you as a group.
4 And then they may then follow up with you as individuals.
5 They each have their own technique.
6 And the purpose of the questions, either those
7 posed by the Court or through the attorneys, are not meant
8 to pry into your personal lives or to embarrass you in any
9 way. And it's not to argue their case at this point in
10 front of you, but rather to determine your qualifications to
11 serve as a juror in this specific trial. So please respond
12 to the layer's questions honestly and sincerely. And if you
13 do not understand a question please ask the lawyer to
14 restate it for you.
15 Now each side is allowed to excuse a certain number
16 of jurors. If you are excused then you should not feel that
17 your attendance has been without value. The Court needs a
18 substantial group of available trial jurors so an impartial
19 juror can be selected. So all of you here today provide an
20 important contribution to the process, and your presence
21 here assures fairness.
22 All right. Ms. Brown?
23 THE CLERK: I'm going to swear you in if you could
24 all rise and raise your right hand, please.
25 Do each -- do each of you solemnly swear or affirm

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
398
1 that you'll truthfully answer all question put to you by the
2 Court or Counsel regarding your qualifications to serve as
3 jurors on this case?
4 THE JURORS: (Collectively) I do.
5 THE CLERK: Thank you. You can have a seat. If
6 you can't see the board at any time let me know, but I'll
7 move it over there closer to you if you need it.
8 THE COURT: And, Mr. Hodell, -- is that correct?
9 MR. HODELL: Yes.
10 THE COURT: The sun, I think, is going to be in
11 your face. That's -- so we're going to close the blinds
12 here. And when it moves up a little higher, we'll open it.
13 It's nice to have the outside coming in during this --
14 during court proceedings, but not when it's blinding you
15 causing that kind of problems. Anyone else is there --
16 that's fine. I think that should work. Okay.
17 All right. So, Ms. Richtor, we'll start with you,
18 if you could answer these questions.
19 MS. RICHTOR: My name is Molly Richtor. I work at
20 Fort Creek Market. I have a degree in Early Childhood
21 Education. And I live in Northeast in Portland. I live
22 with my fiancé. We are a rep for natural foods products. I
23 have never been a crime victim. I do drive. I do not have
24 any friends in law enforcement, and I have never appeared in
25 a court before.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
399
2 Mr. Pauling?
3 MR. PAULING: Ryan Pauling. And I’m salesman for
4 an energy company. I have a bachelor's degree in Political
5 Science. Live in Northeast Portland as far as my
6 neighborhood with my wife who's a manager -- strategy
7 manager at a large (indiscernible) company. I've been a
8 victim of crime under which occasions it's just mostly car
9 break-ins and thefts of that nature, most personal things
10 when I lived in St. Louis. I do drive. I have a lot of
11 friends and relatives in law enforcement -- mostly friends.
12 Not really relatives from a previous employment in the --
13 when I lived in York. And I've appeared in court as far as
14 for jury selection. And that's the extent of it.
15 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.
16 And, Mr. White?
17 Mr. WHITE: My name's Brian White. I recently
18 retired from Department of Environmental Quality
19 Communications. I have a masters in Journalism. I live in
20 Northeast Portland. I'm single. And I have been a crime
21 victim similar car break-in -- apartment break-in. I do
22 drive. I don't have friends, relatives in law enforcement.
23 And I have also appeared in a court proceeding as a juror on
24 a couple of occasions.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
400
1 Mr. Cramer?
2 MR. CRAMER: My name is Larry Cramer. I work for
3 TriMed as an Assistant Supervisor for building maintenance
4 on the light rail. I have a couple different degrees. One
5 is Associates from (indiscernible) technology, and another
6 one is a bachelor's in Community Service emphasis in
7 Environmental Studies. I live in Gresham and -- with my
8 wife. I've only been a crime victim -- car break-in and
9 that was eons ago. I do drive. I don't have any friends or
10 relatives in law enforcement. And I did appear in court
11 proceeding, and that was a really long time ago. I can't
12 remember how many years. Went through the whole process
13 only once.
15 Mr. Rondrupone?
16 MR. RONDRUPONE: Kyle Rondrupone. I work in sales
17 for a produce wholesale company, and I do sell it.
18 Bachelor's degree in marketing and management. Live in
19 Northeast Portland with my girlfriend who is a teacher. I
20 have never been a victim of a crime. I do drive. I had a
21 cousin who died in the line of duty. And I still have a
22 family friend -- my dad's friend who is a police officer
23 still. And I've never appeared in court.
25 And, Mr. Hodell?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
401
1 MR. HODELL: My name is Albert Hodell. I am
2 recently retired as a professional engineer. I have a
3 bachelor's degree in physics and a Master's of Science
4 degree in mechanical engineering. Live in Northwest
5 Portland. I live with my wife. She has an at-home business
6 making handbags. I've been a crime victim on four
7 occasions. They were all property crimes -- a couple of car
8 break-ins and a couple of house break-ins. I drive. I do
9 not have friends or relatives in law enforcement. And I
10 have appeared in court in court -- in a court proceeding.
11 THE COURT: Great. Thank you.
12 Ms. Helser.
13 MS. HELSER: My name is Lorna Helser. I am a
14 medical assistant. I have an Associate Degree, and -- and
15 I'm a certified medical assistant. I live alone, and the
16 only crime is when I was a child. Our home was broke into.
17 I do drive. I don't have friends and relatives in law
18 enforcement. And I've appeared in court in two instances as
19 a juror.
21 Ms. Fritz?
22 MS. FRITZ: My name is Amanda Fritz. I'm a manager
23 in -- in a assessment development position. I have an
24 English literature degree and an MBA. I live in Portland
25 and with my husband who is a consultant for benefits. I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
402
1 have not been a crime victim. I do drive. I do not have
2 anyone I know that's in law enforcement, and I have been on
3 a jury before.
4 THE COURT: And, Ms. Bordette?
5 MS. BORDETTE: My name is Jacqueline Bordette. I'm
6 a retired pediatric dentist. I have a Doctor of Dentistry,
7 and I did a residency in Pediatric Dentistry. Live in
8 Southwest Portland. Reside with my husband who's a
9 neurologist. I have been a crime victim on two occasions.
10 I've been in a -- inside a house when someone forcibly
11 broken in. I drive. My deceased father-in-law was a police
12 officer. And the only time I've been in a court proceeding
13 was for a divorce.
15 Ms. Cross?
16 MS. CROSS: My name is Olivia Cross. I am a
17 staffing coordinator for Integrated Healthcare Solutions. I
18 have a bachelor's in Psychology. I live in Northeast
19 Portland. I live with my husband who's a purchasing agent
20 for a custom products company. I've been a victim of a
21 crime -- apartment break-in and then a car break-in a couple
22 times. I do drive. Don't have friends or relatives in law
23 enforcement. And I appeared in a court proceeding. I
24 testified in one.
25 THE COURT: Ms. Hancock-Moody?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
403
1 MS. HANCOCK-MOODY: My name is Pollyanna Hancock-
2 Moody. I am a college professor. I have a masters in Vocal
3 Performance. I live in Southeast Portland with my two
4 children and my husband who's a -- a home-school dad. I
5 have been the victim of a crime with a drunk driver. I do
6 drive. My step-father became a lawyer after I moved out of
7 my house, (indiscernible) and I have appeared in court
8 proceedings.
10 Ms. Bladholm?
11 MS. BLADHOLM: Yes. My name is Susan Bladholm.
12 I'm a marketing director in a helicopter company. I have a
13 Bachelor of Arts Communications. Live in Southwest Portland
14 with my daughter and my husband. And he buys and sells
15 corporate jets. I have been a crime victim for a car and
16 home break-in. I do drive. I do have a friend who is a
17 police officer. And I have appeared in court proceedings
18 both as a juror and as a witness.
19 THE COURT: Okay. All right. Thank you.
20 Mr. Hersbee?
21 MR. HERSBEE: Nathan Hersbee. I'm an electrical
22 operator of wind-driven generators. I have a Bachelor's of
23 Science and a masters in Engineering from Portland State.
24 Live up in St. Johns with my wife and children and one
25 roommate. Wife is a corporate trainer. Only been a victim

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
404
1 of minor property crime. I drive. No friends or relatives
2 in law enforcement. And I have never been in court except
3 for traffic tickets.
4 THE COURT: And Ms. Renfro?
5 MS. RENFRO: Janet Renfro. I work in development
6 for []Meridian Heart Hospital Foundation. I have a
7 bachelor's in Economics. I work and live in Southeast
8 Portland with my husband who is a regional manager for an
9 insurance company. I have been a crime -- just car and
10 house break-in. I drive. We have a friend that's in law
11 enforcement, and I've been a juror before.
13 Ms. Valacupalonge?
14 My name is Leslie Valacupalonge. I'm retired of
15 (indiscernible). I worked -- retire from the Sears
16 Corporation. I just educated from high school, then I get
17 married and then move here. I live in Southeast Portland.
18 And I live with my husband, retire already. And my daughter
19 is working as a caregiver. I haven't been a crime victim.
20 I'm not driving. And I don’t have a friend or a relatives
21 in law enforcement. And this is the first time in court.
23 Mr. Johnson?
24 MR. JOHNSON: My name is Bruce Johnson. I'm a
25 retired administrator with the State of Oregon. I have a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
405
1 master's in Business Administration. I live in Southwest
2 Portland with my wife who is a retired physician. I have
3 been a victim of property crime, car theft; break-ins. I do
4 drive. My sister-in-law is an attorney, and I have appeared
5 in court before.
6 THE COURT: And is it Mister -- is it Sucrow?
7 That's my name is Cashew Fel. I'm a computer
8 systems administrator. Have an associate's degree. I live
9 in Southeast Portland with my wife, and she's our
10 bookkeeper. I have been a victim of property crimes in our
11 home. I do drive. I have friends and relatives who are --
12 are in law enforcement, and have been in court proceedings
13 before.
15 And, Ms. Huggins?
16 MS. HUGGINS: My name is Babette Huggins. I'm a
17 business owner. I have two years of college but didn't
18 graduate. I live in Northwest Portland with my husband who
19 works at the Department as a director. I've been the victim
20 of car crimes and credit card fraud. I drive. No friends
21 in law enforcement. And I've been in a divorce court.
22 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you all very much.
23 And now Mr. Stull will have the opportunity to
24 inquire further.
25 MR. STULL: First I'm going to show you I can stand

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
406
1 up. All right. Beard -- anybody not going to be fair to me
2 because I have a beard? All right. We got that out of the
3 way. You're going to learn I have a disability. Anybody
4 here suspects the validity of my physical disability?
5 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I'd object. I think it's
6 improper to talk about facts in the case, and especially
7 while -- how the jury perceives Mr. Stull.
8 THE COURT: All right. To the extent there may be
9 evidence presented that establishes from the Defendant's
10 perspective and knowledge that he has a medical need that
11 light of inquiry is allowed. But anything beyond that, Mr.
12 Stull, is not allowed -- inquired of the jury. You've
13 acquainted them with the fact that you have knowledge of
14 a -- an experience a disability. And so you've asked that
15 question and the jurors have responded.
16 MR. STULL: That -- that was all. That was all.
17 THE COURT: All right. Okay.
18 MR. STULL: Anybody here really resentful for
19 having to be on jury duty? I mean really resentful. Like,
20 you know, you know some folks aren't here on jury duty today
21 and you are. Can you be fair about this whole process given
22 that you're summoned here? Any -- anybody have any --
23 please respond if you -- if you -- I'm -- I'm trying to ask
24 you all at once. We want to expedite this process, of
25 course. So anybody that wants to be somebody -- somewhere

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
407
1 else right now? Okay.
2 Can you all feel that you're going to pay attention
3 to the evidence as presented here in this room? All right.
4 We've all just met, right? And can we all accept you can't
5 judge a book by its cover except that maybe if it's a big
6 book it might -- a big cover it might be a big book. But
7 that being said, are you all ready to start? Like we just
8 came into the room and we're all going to take it from here?
9 Is that -- can you leave your past experience as crime
10 victims? Or past experiences as people who that went to
11 court -- can you leave that all behind and start fresh with
12 this right here? No further questions.
14 MR. McMAHON: Thank, Your Honor.
15 Good morning. I don't mean to offend. You will
16 notice I'm actually a little hoarse. I have a pretty nasty
17 cold. I figured I should tell myself, Mr. Kelly, and the
18 Judge recently came down with probably the same bug. But so
19 if I'm coughing or sniffling that's speedy recovery. Please
20 ignore that and if you need something clarified let me know.
21 I'd like to start off by saying thank you for being
22 here. We know it's not voluntary to be here, but as judge
23 Frantz has talked about it is critically important that you
24 are here. A criminal trial is something that our society is
25 built on. It's one of the fundamental rights we enjoy.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
408
1 This is in the Constitution and it's important enough that
2 the founding father's decided that instead of just allowing
3 a judge or prosecutor or defense attorney to determine the
4 facts in the case, that we bring in a panel of jury
5 members -- members of the public to come in and hear the
6 evidence. And really what we're looking for is a neutral
7 panel of jurors that can hear the facts, look at them
8 dispassionately, apply their common sense and reason, and
9 then apply the law that Judge Frantz will give you at the
10 end of the trial.
11 So really all I'm looking for here in my voir dire,
12 which again, will be relatively brief is something that you
13 think might influence you or would prevent you from being a
14 fair and impartial juror: an experience you may have had
15 that's too similar to this case, or something that you carry
16 with you that you think might prevent you from looking at
17 the facts dispassionately. So if at any point you think of
18 something that might come up or that might impact how you
19 view the facts of this case, please raise your hand and let
20 me know. And myself, Mr. Stull, Mr. Kelley, and Judge
21 Frantz -- that's exactly the kind of thing we'd want to
22 know.
23 So very briefly I want to ask by a quick show of
24 hands, and leave them up if you agree with this statement:
25 Has anyone here owned or own their own business or been in

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
409
1 charge of like a store or a shop? Go ahead and raise your
2 hand. Okay. So leave your hand up if you've ever had to
3 trespass someone or kick someone out of the premises. Okay.
4 We'll start over here with Mr. Hodell. We'll come back over
5 on this side.
6 Mr. Hodell, can you tell us a little bit about that
7 experience?
8 MR. HODELL: Okay. I was one of the three owners
9 of a consulting and engineering firm off on south of
10 Jefferson Street just underneath where the -- the
11 (indiscernible) Street bridge crosses. And we had on many
12 occasions we had homeless people living on our doorstep and
13 it became necessary frequently to call police to have them
14 evicted. Occasionally my partner would go up there and
15 throw their possessions in the -- a box. So that would be
16 my experience.
17 MR. McMAHON: Okay. You say you -- and your
18 partner would call the police and (indiscernible).
19 MR. HODELL: My partner was always the one who
20 called the police, yes.
21 MR. McMAHON: Okay. And do you feel that's
22 something that made you really upset or was that something
23 you felt was appropriate? How'd you feel about that
24 instance?
25 MR. HODELL: Well, felt it was important that those

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
410
1 people were living on our doorstep. My partner was the one
2 who was more angered by it than I was. I -- I felt somewhat
3 bothered that I had to step over people occasionally and go
4 into the building in the morning, but it was not a
5 particularly strong feeling one way or another.
6 MR. McMAHON: And again, so the facts in this case
7 may or it is -- it's trespassing. So do you think that that
8 experience in your own past might impact how you view
9 evidence in today's case?
10 MR. HODELL: I don't think it will.
11 MR. McMAHON: Thank you.
12 So, Ms. Bordette, I think you also raised your hand
13 that at some point you had to trespass someone. Would you
14 please tell us a little bit about that experience?
15 MS. BORDETTE: In my private practice I had a
16 parent come in who was taking an unreasonable and legal
17 demands about her daughter's records. You know, and I tried
18 to talk to her about what I could give her legally; how long
19 it would take to get them. She became very belligerent and
20 threatening. And so I did have to ask her to leave. And so
21 she ran out of my office and stole a few things and ran out.
22 MR. McMAHON: Did you have to contact the police?
23 MS. BORDETTE: No. I was just glad she was gone.
24 MR. McMAHON: All right.
25 Ms. Huggins, did you have your hand raised back

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
411
1 there?
2 MS. HUGGINS: I did. I -- I don't know if it
3 pertains, but I -- my business is dealing with youth
4 volleyball. I do year-round volleyball and that is club
5 volleyball. And sometimes parents get a little excited
6 about what's happening with the kids on the court. And
7 there's been multiple occasions where we've had to ask a
8 parent to leave, because they're belligerent at the refs, or
9 other parents, or just getting a little too excited.
10 MR. McMAHON: All right. Now is there anyone else
11 that I missed that had their hand raised? I saw a couple
12 hands over here, and I think I got everyone. Did I miss
13 anyone? So has anyone here -- has anyone seen someone
14 trespassed or kicked out of a business or a home or
15 something?
16 Ms. Cross, what was your experience?
17 MS. CROSS: I worked for a Starbucks for several
18 years over on 6th and Salmon and almost every day we have to
19 call Clean and Safe.
20 MR. McMAHON: It -- you know, that sort of -- has
21 that -- does that impact anything about trespassing or is
22 that something where you can be neutral in today's case?
23 MS. CROSS: It was fairly unemotional for me,
24 because it was not like business or anything. So I didn't
25 really care. I don't think it impacted much.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
412
1 MR. McMAHON: Anyone else this side of the room see
2 anything as far as a person who trespassed or that took
3 place? And over here.
4 Mr. White?
5 MR. WHITE: I've been different retail stores where
6 there have been people coming in and some theft going on
7 right in -- in the store, and people having to contact
8 authorities.
9 MR. McMAHON: And how did that make you feel?
10 MR. WHITE: Well, it -- it made me feel empathy
11 toward people that have to run a business, and it's a --
12 it's a big problem when you run retail outlets and the
13 people doing that. There's a big problem with them coming
14 in and thefts in retail.
15 MR. McMAHON: All right. Thank you.
16 Now, Ms. Helser, you mentioned the fact that you
17 actually work in the medical field. And as you heard this
18 does involve being in a hospital. And have you ever had to
19 deal with a patient that, you know, has become upset or
20 unruly where the police had to be contacted?
21 MR. HELSER: Not only the police had to be
22 contacted, and also the patients I've been around have not
23 had (indiscernible). Or --
24 MR. McMAHON: Now, Ms. Bordette, I don’t image you
25 probably would have had many problems in pediatric dentistry

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
413
1 with your -- with your patients, but have you ever been
2 around or seen something happen at your work or, you know,
3 in the hospital in general that -- where you've seen someone
4 being removed from the facility?
5 MS. BORDETTE: Well, before I was a dentist I was a
6 registered nurse. I work in a county hospital, and I used
7 to see patience shackled and brought in. That was fine. I
8 had to treat those patients. It was pretty rough because
9 they spit on us and did all kinds of things to the nurses.
10 MR. McMAHON: What about after they were released
11 and that they wouldn't leave. Is that something that you
12 would --
13 MS. BORDETTE: Well, they --
14 MR. McMAHON: -- deal with or?
15 MS. BORDETTE: Oh no.
17 And so I just want to kind of ask a very broad
18 question. So recently there's been a lot of media attention
19 about, especially in Portland, police response, most
20 currently to some protests that occurred immediately after
21 the election. Does anyone here have some particularly
22 strong feelings, because there may because police officers
23 testifying today. Does anyone have any particularly strong
24 feelings about police or the criminal justice system in
25 general that they feel might impact how they would view

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
414
1 the -- the facts in today's case? Because we are in a
2 courtroom, there may be police officers testifying, and this
3 is a criminal case. Does anyone have anything that they
4 feel about that or they want to share about that, sort of,
5 that might impact how they view the facts in today's case?
6 Ms. Cross, you kind of raised your --
7 MS. CROSS: Yeah. I can't tell if it would affect
8 me, but I did have very strong reactions with those
9 protests. It wasn't something that I was a part of, and so,
10 I can't tell if it would affect me as far as like I have a
11 great deal of respect for police officers. So --
12 MR. McMAHON: So like, you know, you think you'd be
13 able to kind of separate that experience --
14 MS. CROSS: Yeah. they're kind of separate
15 issue --
16 MR. McMAHON: -- from what was happening like in --
17 MS. CROSS: Yes.
18 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Great. And actually what --
19 does anyone else like -- sort of, in questioning, has anyone
20 else come up with anything that would impact how they view
21 the facts in today's case? Anyone have any trouble with any
22 of the concepts? I know it's pretty brief, but any
23 questions anyone's had?
24 And I'm sorry, Mr. Sucrow, what is your question?
25 MR. SUCROW: I just wanted to say that I generally

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
415
1 trust police officers. I have relatives that have
2 (indiscernible). I appreciate their work.
3 MR. McMAHON: That's -- a great number of people
4 who had law enforcement friends. I know Mr.
5 (indiscernible), that you had several friends that are
6 police officers of note, and does anyone here think that
7 they're feelings about police officers might impact how they
8 would view the evidence in today's case, if a police
9 officers were to testify?
10 So very generally, I'm just going to sort of throw
11 this out. What do you guys think of when you hear the word
12 "trespass"?
13 I'm going to start with Mr. Hersbee. What do you
14 think of when you hear the word "trespass"?
15 MR. HERSBEE: Unwanted occupation of -- of a
16 facility that's public or private.
18 Ms. Fritz, what do you think of when you hear the
19 phrase "trespass"?
20 MS. FRITZ: Being on someone else's property.
22 And, Ms. -- I'm sorry, Ms. Renfro. Right? What do
23 you think of when you hear the phrase "trespass"?
24 MS. REFRO: When someone's not where they're
25 supposed to be and is -- is asked to leave, and they don't

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
416
1 leave, I guess.
3 Ms. Valacupalonge, I'm sorry. Did I get that
4 right? Valacupalonge?
5 MS. VALACUPALONGE: Yes.
6 MR. McMAHON: Okay. What do you think of when you
7 hear the phrase "trespass"? Because I think you said you
8 worked retail for a while, correct?
9 MS. VALACUPALONGE: Yes. And (indiscernible).
10 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Did -- did you work in -- you
11 said you worked in retail, right, for Aramark? I believe it
12 was?
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. That’s -- Leslie
14 worked -- she said Cintas (ph).
15 MR. McMAHON: Cintas. I'm sorry. Got it. Okay.
16 Were you -- did you work in this -- do you two know
17 each other?
18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We worked together for
19 three-and-a-half years.
20 MR. McMAHON: No kidding. Where did you guys work?
21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Cintas.
22 MR. McMAHON: Oh I'm sorry. You said that. And
23 when you were doing that job what sort of work were you
24 doing at Cintas?
25 MS. VALACAPOLONGE: It was like laundry for the --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
417
1 all the companies.
2 MR. McMAHON: Okay. So you worked -- you weren't
3 like selling something so you weren’t trespassing people or
4 taking them -- okay. All right. Thank you.
5 Mr. Johnson, what do you think of when you hear the
7 MR. JOHNSON: Being on private property and
8 (indiscernible).
9 MR. McMAHON: Same property -- what do you think of
10 when you hear the phrase "trespass"?
11 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Exactly the same thing.
12 Being on somebody's property -- unwanted.
14 Ms. Bladholm, what do you think when you hear that
15 phrase?
16 MS. BLADHOLM: The exact same thing. Being on
17 property -- and not being invited.
18 MR. McMAHON: Okay. I'm going to be a little bit
19 repetitive.
20 Ms. Richtor, what do you think of when you hear the
22 MS. RICHTOR: Same thing. Being on someone's
23 property with (indiscernible).
24 MR. McMAHON: And Mr. (indiscernible)?
25 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Without permission being on

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
418
1 public or private --
3 Mr. Cramer?
4 MR. CRAMER: Now if you've been told to not be on
5 that property or where you're at where you're being told
6 you're trespassing, then that to me would be telling me that
7 you're doing something that you've been told you can't do.
8 Mr. Rondrupone?
9 MR. RONDRUPONE: Being on property, you know,
10 unwelcome, unwanted, and refusing to leave when asked to
11 leave.
12 MR. McMAHON: All right. So the reason I kind of
13 hopped around here and asked everyone, it's because at the
14 end of the day you're all going to actually be given a
15 definition by Judge Frantz as to what trespassing means in a
16 legal context. And what I've really tried to kind of pull
17 out is the fact that, you know, we have some very generally
18 similar ideas about what trespass is. But there are little
19 variations and ultimately, at the end of the trial, Judge
20 Frantz is going to give you a single instruction. That
21 instruction might be a little bit different from your own
22 definition. And she's going to order it and say you have to
23 follow that definition even where it might be a little bit
24 different from your own definition. So the question I want
25 to ask you all is does anyone think that they might have a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
419
1 problem sort of setting aside their own internal definition
2 of what trespass is and following the law in Judge Frantz's
3 instruction? Anyone think they'd have a problem?
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I did have a comment that
5 I -- my nephew in Idaho has had -- has been homeless and has
6 had some problems. And I don't know if I would have -- look
7 at things differently. I might would, you know, depending
8 on that definition of trespass, you know, that I might --
9 I'm not sure if I that would be a conflict in my view of --
10 MR. McMAHON: So -- so what you're saying is you
11 can't be sure. You can't be sure --
12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Actually --
13 MR. McMAHON: -- even right now, you can't -- you
14 admit to say, listen, if the Judge orders me to I'll be able
15 to follow the judge's definition. Do you think you'd be
16 able to commit to that?
17 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I think so.
18 MR. McMAHON: You think you'd try your best to do
19 that?
20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.
21 MR. McMAHON: Okay. So does anyone else have any
22 hesitancy or concerns or? Okay. So that's just what I -- I
23 just want to ask just very generally does anyone have a
24 question that they think I should ask? They think that, you
25 know, you're talking here for, you know, ten minutes is kind

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
420
1 of -- keyed in on something or made you remember something
2 that you feel you want to share or tell us before we
3 actually go back and select a jury?
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well --
5 MR. McMAHON: Yes.
6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When you got up it reminded
7 me that my brother was a -- a Deputy District Attorney.
8 MR. McMAHON: Okay. In Multnomah County or
9 elsewhere?
10 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. In Kelso.
11 MR. McMAHON: Do you think that's going to impact
12 how you view the evidence in today's case?
13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, I just had this sweet
14 feeling when you stood up. I'm sorry. Honestly I looked
15 and I said, just like my brother.
16 MR. McMAHON: Well, thank -- and that's -- that's
17 what I was talking about. It's those little things that --
18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah.
19 MR. McMAHON: you know, and I appreciate you saying
20 that because that's exactly the kind of things we're looking
21 for -- those little things where, you know, we just want a
22 neutral -- we want a neutral panel. And it's great that
23 that's a positive feeling. I -- Mr. Stull may disagree.
24 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I know he would.
25 MR. McMAHON: But what we're really looking for is

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
421
1 someone who's just going to be able to look at the facts
2 neutrally and carry -- and consider them carefully to -- in
3 the light of what the law is.
4 Finally, at the end of today's trial, I --
5 continuance until tomorrow, but at the end of the trial
6 you're going to have to make a decision. And it's a
7 decision then, as I stated earlier, it's important enough
8 that the founding fathers decided that six members of the
9 community were to make it together.
10 Now, I've had a case where right after being sworn,
11 or right as they're being sworn in one of the jurors kind of
12 realized that it wasn't his decision. And it was a decision
13 important enough that we give it to members of the
14 community. This person struggled with that, and they had an
15 issue where they -- they expressed reservation about being
16 able to make a decision. Not one way or another, just any
17 decision at all.
18 So what I want to ask you before I sit down, does
19 anyone here think that they may have reservations about
20 making a decision, not guilty or not guilty, but just any
21 decision at all? Does anyone here feel that they might have
22 reservations about that, that that might impact how you
23 would make your decision and deliberate today's case?
24 Okay. Well, thank you for your time and your
25 honesty. With that I conclude my voir dire. Thank you very

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
422
1 much. We'll get a jury selected and hopefully you'll be
2 selected. Thank you.
3 THE COURT: All right. Members of our potential
4 jury, the -- Mr. Stull and his legal advisor and Mr.
5 McMahon, the Deputy District Attorney and I are going to
6 step into chambers at which time that they will exercise
7 what we call the peremptory challenges. That will then
8 result in the -- in six of you being seated. We’ll be gone
9 no more than probably seven or eight minutes. You're free
10 to get up, use the facilities if you want, but if you could
11 be back -- it's 12:10. If you could be back by, let's say
12 12:18 then the six of you who will -- who will sit on the
13 case will be seated and the rest of you will be released and
14 then report to the jury room.
15 I don't know -- right now Taya or at 1:30? For
16 those who are released -- would you find that out in the
17 interim?
18 THE CLERK: Yeah. They sent them to lunch.
19 THE COURT: So they should report back at 1:30?
20 Okay.
21 So and just when we come back in please all of
22 you -- the six of you included, just take a random seat in
23 the back of the courtroom. No one is to sit back in the
24 jury box. Okay? Thank you.
25 MR. STULL: Rise for the jury. Or rise for us.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
423
1 (Break taken from 12:13 p.m. to 12:20 p.m.)
2 THE COURT: All right. Again -- look at that.
3 12:18 -- perfect. Again, thank you for your patience and
4 your candor in responding to the questions posed to you.
5 Now the following six people will be seated. If your name
6 is not called to be seated on this specific trial, then you
7 should report back to the main jury room at 1:30 this
8 afternoon. You don't have to go back there now. Okay?
9 All right. Seat 1, Molly Richtor.
11 THE COURT: Seat 2, Amanda Fritz. Seat 3, Brian
12 White. Seat 4, Olivia Cross. Seat 5, Susan Bladholm. Seat
13 5, Robert Hodell.
14 Again, thank you for your presence here today, and
15 I hope you do get the opportunity to sit on a jury.
16 MR. STULL: Okay. Sit down?
17 THE CLERK: If you'd all stand up please. Raise
18 your right hand. Do each of you solemnly swear or affirm
19 that you will truly try this case and render a true verdict
20 according to the law and evidence that's presented to you?
21 THE JURORS: (Collectively) I do.
23 THE CLERK: You can have a seat.
24 THE COURT: All right. We're going to recess for
25 our -- for lunch for the noon hour here. And ask you to be

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
424
1 back at 1:25 in the jury room. And Ms. Brown is going to
2 take you back to our jury room, which unfortunately, is not
3 connected to my courtroom. It's around the corner there.
4 At that point, I will be giving you a -- a preliminary
5 instruction and then Counsel will be presenting their
6 opening statements to you, and then the witnesses will be
7 called. It's -- the only instruction I'm going to give you
8 right now is that you do not speak about the case in any
9 manner with anyone: family members, friends, amongst
10 yourselves; with anyone. If they want to ask to what you're
11 doing, you can just say I am a juror on a case in Judge
12 Frantz's court and I'm not allowed to speak about it. So
13 with that you are excused, and Ms. Brown will take you to
14 the jury room so you'll know where to report back. All
15 right?
16 (Jury exits.)
17 THE COURT: All right. So any matters you
18 anticipate we'll need to take up before we resume again?
19 Resume at 1:30. Told them to be back 1:25. Takes a few
20 minutes to make sure they're all here and get them in here.
21 And then we'll just begin.
22 MR. McMAHON: Sounds good. Yeah. I think --
23 thanks.
24 THE COURT: I -- I think it would probably be
25 helpful though if I had the records to just review and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
425
1 familiarize myself with --
2 MR. McMAHON: That's --
3 THE COURT: -- the AMR records so that --
4 MR. McMAHON: The AMR records?
5 THE COURT: What -- whatever it is that you were
6 talking about that's --
7 MR. McMAHON: So --
8 THE COURT: -- going to be the subject of --
9 MR. McMAHON: -- this is what I've asked to be
10 excluded. I don’t know if Mr. Stull has a copy of what
11 he's -- the AMR records that he's moving to introduce.
12 THE COURT: Well, so let me ask. I was just told -
13 - do you have records that you were -- are seeking to
14 introduce or just testimony by the AMR personnel, who I
15 assume is your -- your witness to be called?
16 MR. KELLEY: Yeah. so -- so if I can -- if I
17 didn't clarify, the document --
18 MR. McMAHON: Before we begin this call, can I
19 excuse my witnesses?
20 THE COURT: Sure.
21 MR. McMAHON: Just because it might take a few
22 minutes.
23 MR. STULL: Yeah. Thank you.
24 (Discussion held between Mr. Stull and his legal
25 advisor off the record.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
426
1 MR. McMAHON: Thank you for that, Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: All right. And I would appreciate in
3 order to, you know, use my time wisely that the records that
4 are actually pertinent to any evidentiary hearing be
5 identified and any excess records I've already made some
6 rulings as to what's going to be at a preliminary stage
7 excluded from evidence and allowed into evidence that --
8 depending upon how testimony goes.
9 MR. McMAHON: My --
10 THE COURT: Exclusion may be -- may be pretty
11 limited. I don't know.
12 MR. McMAHON: My understanding is these records all
13 pertain to other incidents, not the -- nothing in the time
14 frame that Your Honor has limited --
16 MR. McMAHON: -- testimony to. I -- I -- the AMR
17 records, I do believe fall within that time period.
18 THE COURT: All right. So those are records --
19 MR. McMAHON: So I think --
20 THE COURT: -- that Mr. Stull is seeking to
21 introduce, the AMR -- all right.
24 MR. KELLEY: And I'm not sure which records
25 specifically Mr. Stull is intending to offer.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
427
1 THE COURT: Okay. So why don't we do this then?
2 Why don't -- if you can take a bit of time before 1:25 --
3 MR. KELLEY: Okay.
4 THE COURT: -- to review those and to -- if you
5 have opportunity to provide copies to Mr. McMahon and to the
6 Court, I'll have those before me, Mr. McMahon will have
7 those. So ones -- ones you're actually seeking to introduce
8 or within the timeframe that I have to find evidence to
9 November 20th through the 22nd.
10 MR. KELLEY: We'll do.
12 MR. KELLEY: Thank you.
13 MR. McMAHON: Thank you very much, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: You can leave things in this courtroom.
16 It will be locked over the noon hour.
17 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
18 MR. KELLEY: Thank you, Your Honor.
19 (Discussion held between Mr. Stull and his legal
20 advisor off the record.)
21 (Lunch break taken from 12:28 p.m. to 1:43 p.m.)
22 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were held in
23 open court in the presence of the jury:)
24 THE COURT: All right. Thank you for your prompt
25 return. So I'm now going to give you what we call

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
428
1 precautionary instructions, and then as I mentioned closing
2 -- or I'm sorry -- opening statements, and of the testimony,
3 and evidence will be presented.
4 Members of the -- of the jury. I will now explain
5 some of the rules that apply during a trial. There are
6 eight stages to most trials and I will briefly explain each
7 stage. First is jury selection. We've completed that part.
8 Secondly is explanation of the general rules, and that's
9 what I'm going to do now. Third is opening statements.
10 That is when the attorneys or Mr. Stull, acting as his own
11 attorney, will summarize what they expect the evidence to
12 be. Next is presentation of the evidence. That is when
13 witnesses and exhibits are presented. Then jury
14 instructions -- this is when the Judge explains the law that
15 applies to the particular charge in this case. This
16 includes explaining what the State must prove beyond a
17 reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict.
18 You will receive a printed copy of the
19 instructions. Next is closing arguments. That is when the
20 attorney for the State, Mr. McMahon, and Mr. Stull, as his
21 own attorney, have the opportunity to persuade you how to
22 decide this case. Deliberations -- that is when you go back
23 into the jury room and decide whether the Defendant is
24 guilty or not guilty. Return of the verdict -- that is when
25 you tell us what your verdict is.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
429
1 You have two major roles in this process. The
2 first is to determined, based upon the evidence, what really
3 happened. We call this deciding the facts. The second
4 major role consists of deciding if, in light of the law as I
5 explained it to you and what you decide the facts are, the
6 Defendant is guilty of a crime.
7 In performing your role -- your roles, you must, of
8 course, be fair and impartial. You must follow the law
9 whether you agree with it completely or not. That is just
10 part of living in a democracy. You must not allow yourself
11 to be influenced at all by personal feelings, sympathy for,
12 or prejudice against anyone involved in the case. I will
13 explain in a moment what is and what is not evidence. It is
14 extremely important that you consider only the evidence in
15 deciding the facts.
16 As a Judge, I am a gatekeeper regarding the
17 evidence. I determine what the law allows to be evidence.
18 In effect, the law considers anything that is not evidence
19 to be unreliable. That is why you may not consider non-
20 evidence in deciding the facts. However, the law does not
21 conclude that anything that is evidence is necessarily
22 reliable.
23 Determining the reliability or believability of
24 evidence is ultimately your responsibility. You must decide
25 what evidence is believable, and how believable or

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
430
1 persuasive any particular piece of evidence is. So while
2 you are not allowed to consider anything that is not
3 evidence in deciding the facts you are free to decide how
4 believable or unbelievable, important or unimportant any
5 particular piece of evidence is in deciding the facts.
6 Evidence consists of testimony or witnesses and
7 exhibits that are admitted into evidence. Testimony is what
8 a witness who has sworn or affirmed to answer questions
9 truthfully says while being examined as a witness. Exhibits
10 are physical objects such as photographs, charts and
11 letters. You will be able to examine admitted exhibits
12 during your deliberations. You may draw reasonable
13 inferences from the evidence, but you are not guess or
14 speculate.
15 In understanding -- understanding what evidence is
16 it is helpful to have some examples of what is not evidence.
17 The fact that a criminal charge has been filed against the
18 Defendant is not evidence. Any Defendant is innocent of any
19 crime and unless and until the State proves his or her guilt
20 beyond a reasonable doubt.
21 Questions from lawyers are not evidence, so
22 whenever I sustain an objection to a question do not
23 speculate about why the question was asked or what the
24 answer would have been. This is a subtle but important
25 point. In our everyday lives if a friend asks if we have

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
431
1 seen our mutual friend's new car we infer from that question
2 that the mutual friend has a new car. However, it is not
3 the same in a trial. The person asking the question is not
4 a witness and is not subject to the safeguards that the law
5 requires before you may consider a person's words as
6 evidence.
7 So in court, you are not allowed to consider
8 questions asked by attorneys in determining what the facts
9 are. The questions are not evidence. Of course, when a
10 witness answers a question, you may consider the answer in
11 the context of the question. For example, if a lawyer asks,
12 "Was the traffic light red or green", and the witness
13 answers, "green," you may take the answer as stating that
14 the traffic light was green. However, if the witness
15 answers there was no traffic light, you may not take the
16 question as evidence that there was a traffic light.
17 From time to time a lawyer may object to something
18 that is offered into evidence. I will decide whether the
19 objected to material will be admitted into evidence. If I
20 overrule the objection the material, for example, an exhibit
21 or a witness's answer to a question becomes evidence. If I
22 sustain the objection the exhibit is not admitted and is not
23 evidence or the witness is not allowed to answer the
24 question. If the witness starts to answer a question before
25 I sustain an objection to the question, you must disregard

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
432
1 eh witness's response because the response is not evidence.
2 Occasionally I may decide that something that had
3 been admitted into evidence should not have been. If that
4 happens, I will instruct you to disregard the exhibit or
5 testimony that should have been -- that should not have been
6 admitted. This means that the material is no longer
7 evidence. You must not consider it in any way. You must
8 treat it as if the question had not been answered or the
9 exhibit had not been received in the first place.
10 You must not interpret any statement -- statement,
11 ruling or remark I make during this trial as any indication
12 that I have formed any opinion about the facts or outcome of the
13 case. You and you alone are to decide the facts. You must
14 decide how believable the evidence is and what weight or value
15 you will give that evidence.
16 During this trial you may be allowed to ask question of

17 witnesses. If you have any questions of the witnesses you must
18 submit them in writing. The procedure for submitting questions
19 is as follows: Please wait until the end of the witness
20 testimony because the question may be answered by the time the
21 lawyers and Mr. Stull are through. You may write your question
22 down, fold it, and hold the paper up to get my attention, or you
23 may raise your hand and we will wait for you to write out your
24 question if you have already not done so. My clerk, Ms. Brown
25 will get the question from you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
433
1 Your questions are subject to the rules of evidence
2 just as lawyer's questions are. I will review the question with
3 the lawyer from the State and Mr. Stull and his advisor, and
4 we'll rule on whether the question may be asked. I will be the
5 person to ask the question of the witness if I decide it is
6 proper. We do not expect jurors to know the fine points of
7 asking questions pursuant to the rules of evidence. Accordingly,
8 I may sometimes modify a question so that it conforms to the
9 rules of evidence.
10 If the question is not asked, jurors should not draw
11 any inferences about my ruling or speculate as to what the answer
12 to the question might have been. Do not weigh answers to a juror
13 question any differently than any other answer simply because the
14 answer was given in response to a juror question. After any
15 juror questions, the lawyers are allowed to then ask follow up
16 questions.
17 You may take notes if you wish during the trial.
18 However, please keep in mind that each party is entitled to the
19 considerate decision of each juror. Therefore, during
20 deliberation you should not give undue weight to another juror's
21 notes if those notes conflict with your notes or your
22 recollection of the evidence. Do not allow your notetaking to
23 interfere with your ability -- ability to observe and evaluate
24 testimony. Your notes may be in only two places -- either leave
25 your notepads that you'll be provided with -- here in the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
434
1 courtroom, or in the jury room. You may not take notes with you
2 on lunch or on overnight breaks. My staff will make sure that
3 your notes are kept safe and no one has access to them in your
4 absence.
5 Do not discuss this case during the trial with anyone
6 including any of the lawyers, parties, witnesses, your friends,
7 or members of your family. This includes not communicating with
8 anyone by any other means, such as telephone, text messages,
9 email, Internet chat, blogs, or social networking websites. Do
10 not discuss this case -- case with other jurors or look at other
11 juror's notes until you begin your deliberations at the end of
12 the case. After you've heard all the evidence and the arguments
13 of the lawyers and Mr. Stull, and have been instructed on the law
14 that applies to each case -- to this case.
15 Each of you must keep an open mind throughout the trial
16 and must not attempt to decide the case until you begin your
17 deliberations. Do not make any independent personal
18 investigations into any facts or locations connected with this
19 case. Do not look up any information from any source. Do not
20 communicate any private or special knowledge about any of the
21 facts of this particular case to your fellow jurors. Decide this
22 case only on the evidence presented here in court. Do not read
23 any news stories, listen to any radio or television reports, or
24 read or listen to anything on the Internet about this case or
25 about anyone involved in the case.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
435
1 In addition to the conventional methods of research,
2 you must also not use any Internet search engine such as Google
3 to look for any information about the case, the law that applies
4 to this case, or the people involved in the case including the
5 Defendant, the witnesses, the lawyers, or the judge. Do not use
6 any map program or mapping system to attempt to view or locate
7 any of the locations that may be discussed in the case.
8 In short, do not communicate with anyone by any means
9 concerning what you see or hear in the courtroom. And do not try
10 to find out more about this case by any means other than what
11 you've learned in the courtroom. Decide this case only in what
12 happens here in open court where both the State and the Defendant
13 are aware and have the opportunity to question the sources of the
14 evidence and to address any legal issues that may arise. This is
15 the only fair way to decide a case. If you base your verdict on
16 anything other than what you learn in this courtroom, that could
17 be grounds for a mistrial, which means that all of the work that
18 you, your fellow jurors, the parties, the lawyers and the Judge
19 have done will have to be done all over again. That is why this
20 is so important.
21 Ignore any attempted improper communication. If any
22 person tries to communicate with you about this case tell that
23 person that you cannot discuss the case because you are a juror.
24 If that person persists, simply walk -- walk away and report the
25 incident to the Court. You may not talk to anyone about this

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
436
1 case; even the people closest to you except to say that you are a
2 juror on a criminal case, and Judge Frantz says you cannot talk
3 about it.
4 After you have rendered your verdict or have been
5 otherwise discharged by me, you will be free to do any research
6 you choose or to share your experiences with anyone you choose
7 either directly or through your favorite electronic means.
8 Remember that all phones, laptops, and other electronic devices
9 must be turned off while you are in court and while you are in
10 deliberations.
11 So now we are going to hear the opening statements in
12 which the lawyers will outline the evidence as they expect it to
13 be. After the opening statements the evidence will be presented.
14 At the conclusion of the evidence, I will instruct you about the
15 law that applies to this case and the -- and the lawyer from the
16 State and Mr. Stull will make their closing arguments to you.
17 Then you will begin your deliberations.
18 At the end of the trial you will have to make your
19 decision based on what you recall of the evidence. You will not
20 have a written transcript to consult, and it is difficult to play
21 back any recorded testimony. So that is not typically done and
22 will not be done. I urge you to pay close attention to the
23 testimony as it is given. If, at any time, you cannot hear a
24 question or answer, let me know immediately by raising your hand.
25 All right. You ready to proceed?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
437
1 MR. McMAHON: Thank you, Your Honor.
3 MR. McMAHON: And may it please the Court, Counsel --
4 thank you.
5 Ladies and gentlemen, the facts of this case are not
6 complex. On November 20th, 2015, Mr. Stull was at Legacy
7 Memorial Hospital. He had been transported there by ambulance to
8 receive treatment in the Emergency Medical Division. He was then
9 discharged. Now the important fact to know is that Mr. Stull
10 actually had a trespassing notice from Emanuel Hospital saying
11 that he couldn’t be there unless he was getting medical
12 treatment.
13 Mr. Stull, having gotten his medical treatment was
14 walking through the hospital. Security officer walks up
15 (indiscernible). Said, "Mr. Stull, you need to leave. You have
16 a valid exclusion on file, so you can't stay here." Mr. Stull
17 refuses. The security officer, directs -- Mr. Gaines directs him
18 to the nearest exit. Said, "Mr. Stull, please walk that way."
19 Mr. Stull refuses. At this point Mr. Stull becomes angry,
20 aggressive, loud; tries to push past Mr. Gaines and the other
21 security officer who had arrived. Tries to push past them
22 saying, "I’m going to go sit in the emergency department." Going
23 past the children's hospital and into the emergency department.
24 Mr. Stull was repeatedly told, "No, you need to leave. You need
25 to exit. You need to get out of the building." Mr. Stull

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
438
1 refuses to do so.
2 At no point did Mr. Stull say, "I'll go out the front
3 door. Walk out with me." At no point did Mr. Stull say, "I'm
4 going to leave." At no point did Mr. Stull say, "Well, let me
5 get back." At no point did Mr. Stull say, "Well, I'm still
6 getting medical treatment." Mr. Stull had finished his medical
7 treatment, was asked politely to leave to follow that exclusion
8 that had been in effect for four years; refused. And when he did
9 so, he became angry and aggressive, thrashing, fighting; trying
10 to pull away and wrest away from the security officers who were
11 simply trying to escort him outside.
12 At that point he was placed in handcuffs and the
13 Portland Police arrived. You're going to hear testimony that the
14 police officers transported him to prison -- or excuse me, to the
15 jail, and that he was admitted to the jail. Those are the facts
16 in this case. Mr. Stull was trespassing at Legacy Emanuel
17 Hospital when he wasn't -- when he wasn't receiving treatment,
18 finished up treatment, was discharged; was asked politely to
19 leave. Mr. Stull turned that into a confrontation. He became
20 loud, angry, and aggressive. That's why we're here today.
21 And so I'd ask you to carefully consider the facts and
22 the evidence that's being presented and apply that to the law
23 that Judge Frantz has provided. And at the close of today's
24 trial I will ask you to find Mr. Stull guilty of criminal
25 trespass in the second degree. Thank you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
439
1 THE COURT: Mr. Stull?
2 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. Well, I should
3 start by saying is we know I'm innocent right now. And I'm here
4 because I know that you are as reasonable members of the jury
5 you're going to find me not guilty. Because that presentation --
6 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Objection. Your Honor. It's
7 argument.
8 THE COURT: Yeah. Mr. Stull, this is the --
9 MR. STULL: It's argument?
10 THE COURT: Yes. And this --
11 MR. STULL: I'm saying.
12 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Stull --
13 MR. STULL: Yes.
14 THE COURT: -- you cannot argue at this point. This is
15 when you present an opening statement --
17 THE COURT: -- and closing argument -- opening
18 statement you present -- you tell the jury what you anticipate
19 the evidence will be.
21 THE COURT: Yeah.
22 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I'll -- I'll restate what I
23 just said.
24 THE COURT: Good.
25 MR. STULL: This is to tell you what evidence you're

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
440
1 going to see -- what evidence you're going to be presented, and
2 as the Judge said, the evidence that you're going to be presented
3 and you make your decision on as the jurors, has to be from this
4 room. So what happens out on the Internet and all those other
5 sources of information is not how we do our trials here.
6 So this -- the difficulty I'm having here, folks, is I
7 don't know how this information actually got to you today.
8 Because the reality was I went to the emergency room at Emanuel
9 Hospital. You're going to find out -- and I don't want to
10 confuse you. Mr. Kelley over there is my legal advisor. I'm the
11 Defendant and the Defendant's counsel. So when I'm here I'm
12 speaking with -- as a lawyer would with the Defendant still over
13 there. When I go up there as a witness and sit in the witness
14 box, that's my testimony. This right now isn't testimony. And
15 that's what I was trying to say.
16 Everything that you're hearing when we're in court
17 presenting our arguments is not testimony. Testimony is what the
18 witnesses do, and I'm not a witness now until I'm sworn in and go
19 up there. So nothing I'm saying right now is really evidence in
20 this case. So I wanted you to be sure of that.
21 I also want to tell you that the -- the Portland Police
22 officers are going to testify that they had absolutely no inquiry
23 from me at Emanuel Hospital prior to the arrest or after the
24 arrest. The Portland Police will be able to say and will say
25 they have no idea of what the situation was except for what they

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
441
1 heard from Emanuel Hospital security guards. So you're going to
2 learn that the source of information for the Portland Police to
3 arrest me, and as you heard already take me to jail, was solely a
4 product of the Emanuel Hospital security guards.
5 You're going to learn that those Emanuel Hospital
6 security guards don't have any more power to arrest an individual
7 than you, and you, and you, and you and you -- than I do, because
8 people in Oregon can arrest a person using a citizen's arrest.
9 And they can do that if they witness a crime.
10 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I'm going to object here.
11 This is argument. It's a misstatement of law. It's clearly off-
12 point.
13 THE COURT: Yes. This is argument. Again, it's to
14 advise the jury of what you anticipate the evidence will be, not
15 to argue the case as to what you're understanding of the law is.
16 MR. STULL: Well, I -- I anticipate that I'm going to
17 ask the security guard whether he's qualified to arrest somebody
18 except using a citizen's arrest and he -- he or she is going to
19 say that, no, they don't have law enforcement power. They only
20 have the authority to arrest somebody as a citizen using a
21 citizen's arrest. And the Portland Police will say that the
22 source of their information regarding the validity of that arrest
23 and whether such a crime was witnessed by anyone, the sole source
24 of that information is only the Emanuel Hospital security guards.
25 You're going to learn Emanuel Hospital, albeit a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
442
1 trespassing exclusion, and I -- I want to let you know that to
2 trespass somebody might be to put them on a list where you call
3 up to some place. We'll call it 86 -- you're not allowed here
4 anymore. And to trespass somebody might include arresting them
5 and taking them to jail. So please pay attention to that so
6 those things aren't conflated anything in your minds as jurors.
7 You're going to learn that there's a campus map of
8 Emanuel Hospital. It's got buildings and buildings and
9 buildings. It also has boundaries furtherest to that. You're
10 going to learn that and you're going to learn that the security
11 guards wanted the Defendant to leave the building, which would
12 not have at all gotten the Defendant one inch closer to leaving
13 the property.
14 You're going to learn that the Defendant had been
15 treated at the emergency department and not for the first time at
16 Emanuel Hospital emergency department. You're going to learn
17 that the Defendant had been to the hospital for two-and-a-half
18 hours. The Defendant was leaving the hospital towards two
19 things -- the lobby, which contains at the main entrance, which
20 is the main entrance, and also the main exit logically where they
21 have bus schedules.
22 This is a Sunday night. You're going to learn that.
23 You're going to learn that it was approaching midnight on a
24 Sunday night. You're going to learn that the transit options on
25 Sundays aren't the same as they are other times of the week

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
443
1 especially when you're getting to the late night on Sunday.
2 You're going to learn that in the lobby of Emanuel Hospital
3 there's a cab phone which is pre-dialed. You pick it up. You
4 get one it's for Broadway Cab. Another one is for Radio Cab.
5 You're going to learn that the closest bus stop to that entire
6 piece of property with all those buildings is closest to the main
7 entrance of the hospital. The same entrance, which I'll repeat,
8 has the lobby with the bus schedules and the ability to call a
9 cab.
10 You're going to learn that Emanuel Hospital has a
11 policy that when a patient is discharged they're provided with an
12 opportunity to arrange for transportation. And you're going to
13 learn that on this particular evening there was no access to that
14 information. There was no access to that exit. There was no
15 ability to make arrangements for transport, and there was no
16 ability to continue the process of leaving the property.
17 You're going to learn that the Defendant, myself, was
18 leaving the hospital when approached from behind by two security
19 guards that then effected the arrest. For what? Remaining in
20 the building. Their options were go out this fire door, and I
21 wouldn't expect any of you people under those circumstances to
22 exit a fire door of a building with two strange men that
23 approached you from behind when you were minding your own
24 business and simply making your way home as the Defendant was.
25 So the think you have to think of, and you will have a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
444
1 lot of chance to see the evidence in this case, is why would a
2 Defendant with a disability, leaving a hospital want to stay
3 there instead of simply accessing transportation to go home as
4 the Emanuel Hospital -- Hospital itself publicizes. They say we
5 have bus schedules. They say we have cab phones. Those are in
6 the lobby. And you're going to find in the -- the transit route
7 within the building to that lobby that's where this event took
8 place.
9 Didn't take place some -- coming in the building.
10 Didn't take place anywhere except between the emergency room exit
11 and the lobby that has the bus schedules. You're going to hear
12 that the security guards were informed at the time that the
13 Defendant had just come out of the emergency room. The Defendant
14 was a person with a disability. A person that wanted to check
15 the bus schedules, which is a reasonable thing to do on a -- on a
16 Sunday night. Because the options, you're going to learn, were
17 to catch the bus, perhaps walk down to the Rose Garden (sic)
18 Transit and take the MAX and to go home. Where is home? You're
19 going to learn from the Police Department 108th and Stark,
20 Southeast Portland -- quite a distance.
21 And you're going to learn that there was a reason that
22 Emanuel Hospital is so important. You're going to learn that
23 Emanuel Hospital is a nation -- nationally recognized -- they're
24 promoting themselves as nationally recognized for their sciences
25 in neurology. You're going to hear the words three times --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
445
1 three words -- Central Pain Syndrome. It happens to be a
2 neurological condition. If you have to go an emergency room,
3 perhaps that would be a place to go. And you're going to learn
4 all that.
5 So I won’t spend any more of your time other than to
6 say that I want to reiterate testimony. If witnesses, arguments
7 are from lawyers. And half the lawyers lose every day, so not
8 all the lawyers are bright. So I just want you to be able to
9 take notes. If you have questions as to -- as the Judge has
10 offered you the opportunity; ask those questions. I want you all
11 to work really hard, as hard as I am because I believe that we
12 are going to come out of this with a changed system.
13 Thank you, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: All right. Your first witness?
15 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor, the State will be
16 calling Mr. Christopher Dotson to the stand.
17 (Witness summoned.)
18 MR. STULL: I don’t think we have power.
19 MR. STULL: Excuse me, Your Honor, it appears Mr.
20 Kelley has discovered that we're not getting power from the
21 power supply here. So --
23 MR. STULL: -- I wanted to just let you know as far
24 as housekeeping is concerned.
25 THE COURT: And -- and you have tried.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
446
1 MR. KELLEY: Now we get it --
2 THE COURT: How -- how's it being affected? What's
3 the impact?
4 MR. KELLEY: It's on now, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: What -- to your --
6 MR. STULL: We -- we've got it worked out -- we've
7 got it worked out. Thank you.
8 THE COURT: All right. But was it to your
9 computer? Was that the concern?
10 MR. KELLEY: Yes.
11 MR. STULL: Yes. Yeah. Thank you, Your Honor.
13 THE CLERK: Remain standing. Raise your right
14 hand? Under the penalty of perjury do you solemnly swear or
15 affirm the testimony you're about to give in this case will
16 be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
17 MR. DOTSON: Yes.
18 THE CLERK: Please have a seat and state and spell
19 your name for the record.
20 MR. DOTSON: Christopher Dotson; C-h-r-i-s-t-o-p-h-
21 e-r; D-o-t-s-o-n.
22 THE CLERK: Thank you.
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
447
1 WHEREUPON,
2 CHRISTOPHER DOTSON,
3 a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and
4 testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. McMAHON:
7 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Dotson. What's your current
8 occupation?
9 A I'm currently a coordinator for the Environment and
10 Care at Legacy Emanuel Hospital.
11 Q What -- what's that mean?
12 A I basically do emergency management disaster
13 preparedness. So I plan for everything that we hope never
14 happens.
15 Q And how long have you worked at Legacy Emanuel?
16 A I'm working on my 10th year.
17 Q Have you had the same job all 10 years?
18 A No. Prior to this I was a security officer at
19 Emanuel Randall Children's Hospital.
20 Q How long were you a security officer?
21 A Almost nine years exactly.
22 Q So it's a relatively new job change?
23 A Yeah.
24 Q And were you on duty on -- and I'm sorry. I guess,
25 what are part of your roles or duties as a security officer

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
448
1 for Emanuel?
2 A Maintain safety security of physicians, patients;
3 the facility.
4 Q Are you considered a person to charge -- can you --
5 can you trespass individuals.
6 A Yes.
7 Q All right. And how grants you that authority?
8 A Oregon statute, I believe.
9 Q So you do have personal authority to tell someone
10 that they're excluded from the property?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Now were you on duty on October 14, 2011?
13 A Yes.
14 Q I'm going to go ahead and show you what's been
15 marked as and admitted as State's Exhibit 1. If you'd just
16 describe for the jury what is shown in State's Exhibit 1?
17 A This is a contact report. If we do criminally
18 trespass somebody we issue them this report. It has the ORS
19 Statute on the back and we -- it just gives a brief reason on
20 the front why we trespass them.
21 Q Okay. And is that a trespass report or a contact
22 report that you wrote?
23 A Yes. It is.
24 Q For whom was that report written?
25 A For Barry Stull.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
449
1 Q And do you remember giving that contact report to a
2 Mr. Stull?
3 A Mr. Stull refused to accept the report so I placed
4 it with his belongings with Portland Police.
5 Q Okay. But you did -- did you tell him about it or
6 what'd you do with that? Like what happened when you gave
7 him that?
8 A Yeah. So ordinarily we will fill out the contact
9 report. We will present it to the individual. We will read
10 the warning notice on the back, ask them if they understand,
11 and then attempt to give them their copy. If they refuse,
12 then we put it with their belongings if -- if there are -- if
13 there is no police officer present then we just note it in
14 our report that the individual refused and to keep a copy of
15 it.
16 Q And did you read that report to Mr. Stull on
17 October 14, 2011?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Could you read the back of that trespass notice?
20 Could you just read that out loud to the jury?
21 A "You are prohibited from coming onto the property
22 or premises of any Legacy Health System property at any time
23 except in order to receive emergency medical care.
24 Permission to enter the premises of Legacy Health System for
25 any other reason must be obtained by an officer of the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
450
1 security department. Entry upon the premises may result in
2 your arrest for criminal trespass in the second degree.
3 According the order by Statute ORS 164.245 a person commits
4 the crime of criminal trespass if he enters or remains
5 unlawfully in or upon the premises. This notice may be
6 rescinded only by written notice from an officer of Legacy
7 Security Services. A copy of this notice will remain on
8 file."
9 Q And is the individual you presented that to present
10 here in court today?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Please identify where he's sitting and what he's
13 wearing.
14 A Mr. Barry Joe Stull, wearing black top and grey
15 pants.
16 Q Okay. And that's the same individual that you gave
17 that to on that day?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And to your knowledge is that trespass ever
20 rescinded or revoked?
21 A No.
22 Q If that trespass was rescinded or revoked, would
23 that be removed from your file?
24 A No. We would still keep it on file. It would just
25 be amended from usually the manager or the director of the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
451
1 department.
2 Q Okay. And there was no such amendment for that
3 document?
4 A No.
5 Q To your knowledge, is Mr. Stull -- I guess, was Mr.
6 Stull excluded or still excluded on November 23rd, 2015?
7 A As far as I know, my initial contact report,
8 trespass was not rescinded at any time.
9 Q Thank you. I have no further questions for you at
10 this time.
11 THE COURT: Just of the record, identification was
12 it the Defendant?
14 THE COURT: And you described black top and -- and
15 grey pants. Are you describing the Defendant --
16 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
17 THE COURT: -- since we don't have a -- there's not
18 a visual recording of this.
19 THE WITNESS: Okay. Yes. The Defendant. And I
20 apologize. I am color blind, so if your pants are not grey
21 then, Mr. Stull, the Defendant.
22 THE COURT: Yeah. All right.
23 MR. McMAHON: All right. Thank you.
24 I have no further questions at this time.
25 THE COURT: Cross-examination, Mr. Stull?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
452
1 CROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. STULL:
3 Q Yes. Are you familiar with the Facilities and
4 Safety Visitor Behavior Management Policy at Emanuel?
5 A Yes.
6 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I have what we'll label as
7 Defense Exhibit here. Page three.
8 Okay. It's part of the report.
9 Your Honor, may I approach the witness?
10 THE COURT: You may. And when you --
11 MR. McMAHON: And, Mr. Stull, would you please
12 clarify what you are marking as State's Exhibit -- or excuse
13 me Defense Exhibit -- I believe would be 101?
14 MR. STULL: Yes. It's Legacy Health Administrative
15 Policy 300.06.01, origination date of 4 of 1998, and last
16 revision date of 7 of 2012.
17 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Now, Mr. Stull, you do have --
18 pardon me. There are three unattached sheets of paper. I'm
19 not exactly sure which documents he's offering them in
20 entirety. I believe that one document is from an
21 unassociated report. And I just want to clarify what --
22 like -- are you issuing two pages? If you could please stay
23 close together, perhaps. So we just need to make sure for
24 the record that we're clear what exactly you're offering
25 as -- as Defense 101.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
453
1 MR. STULL: Well, actually, we have two things. I
2 want to get this one out of the way first.
4 THE COURT: So we're going to -- that -- that's a
5 two-page document to which you just referred.
6 MR. STULL: Right. And we need --
7 THE COURT: Staple that and mark that as Defense
8 Exhibit 101.
9 MR. STULL: -- the first three pages of that.
10 THE COURT: And if you choose to offer -- there's a
11 third page as a separate exhibit then that will be dealt with
12 separately.
13 MR. STULL: Yeah. It is. It -- that one was page
14 four of four. And this was not the document to it.
15 THE COURT: There you go.
16 THE CLERK: Hang on.
17 MR. STULL: Okay. Let me see. I’m sorry. All
18 right. Excuse me. I'll give you a minute.
19 MR. McMAHON: Go ahead.
20 BY MR. STULL:
21 Q All right. Are you familiar with that policy
22 that's articulated in that document?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Have you ever appeared in any forum at all
25 regarding me and regarding discussion of this policy?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
454
1 A I'm not sure I understand your question.
2 Q Have you and I ever interacted regarding that
3 policy?
4 A You mean our initial reaction -- or our initial
5 interaction?
6 Q Ever.
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay. And what date was that?
9 A It was the October 14th, 2011.
10 Q Okay. Now I have a copy of your report. And in
11 your report, among other things, you had confirmed that I had
12 been treated at Emanuel Hospital emergency department. Is
13 that stand --
14 A Correct.
15 Q -- with your recollection?
16 A Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 THE COURT: And please answer yes or no?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes.
19 BY MR. STULL:
20 Q And the report also says that I was drinking my
21 coffee in the atrium outside the Heartbeat Café. Is that
22 correct? It's in your report. It's not in the document. So
23 if you have your report, you might refer to it.
24 A I certainly believe you.
25 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I have a matter for the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
455
1 Court outside the presence of the jury.
3 Members of the jury, we will -- we need to escort
4 you back to the jury room, because we don't have the
5 capability of having a court reporter go into chambers to
6 hear the argument. It has to be heard in the courtroom.
7 It's a matter that must be taken out of your presence.
8 (Discussion between Mr. Stull and his advisor off
9 the record.)
10 (Jury exits.)
11 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, and I just want to, I
12 guess, make it clear and confirm with the Court, if Mr. Stull
13 starts going into the specifics of what happened, I'd ask
14 for -- I'd argue that Mr. Stull's opened the door, and I can
15 ask Mr. Dotson to describe in greater detail what occurred.
16 And I just want to confirm with the Court before we go down
17 this way that this would, in fact, open a door to that line
18 of questioning on redirect.
19 THE COURT: Well, the -- the Court's ruling was
20 that this order is in effect and that this is not going to
21 relitigate or litigate the basis for the order. It's an
22 order that -- of exclusion except for the purpose that is
23 stated on, I guess, the reverse side, which says that you may
24 go to Emanuel Hospital for emergency medical treatment.
25 Otherwise, you are excluded unless you have specific written

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
456
1 authorization to go to Emanuel Hospital out -- that would
2 then override that order. And so, as I had said earlier, the
3 Order of Exclusion stands and we're not going to -- I'm not
4 going to allow to go behind that order and discuss what
5 brought about that order. The order stands. If you --
7 THE COURT: Right. But your question is going into
8 the circumstances around the basis for that Order of
9 Exclusion of being prepared and delivered to you.
11 THE COURT: And -- and so I've not allowed that to
12 occur to go into the context or the circumstances as are
13 recalled by either party as to what led to the preparation
14 and execution and delivery of that Order of Exclusion except
15 for emergency medical services. So your question about "were
16 you drinking a coffee at the Heartbeat Café" then goes into
17 the circumstances surrounding the exclusion that was
18 delivered to you, and that's not allowed. The exclusion
19 stands as a -- as an order with the exception that you were
20 allowed to access Emanuel Hospital for emergency medical
21 treatment.
22 MR. STULL: That -- that's well taken, Your Honor.
23 The -- the issue here is the credibility of the witness,
24 because without giving too many details, this is an
25 unanchored flight of fancy. I was accused of being --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
457
1 smelling of alcohol, which, with my medical condition
2 would -- would actually be the wrong thing and there would
3 have had to be an opportunity to do that. So I didn't, in
4 fact, smell like alcohol, which is one of their reasons to
5 exclude somebody for publicly being intoxicated.
6 Another one is being visibly filthy. Well, to the
7 unabated eye I would appear visibly filthy if you didn't
8 consider that these are faded and not dirty. So I just am
9 trying to capture the -- this witness and the other security
10 guards will have, in fact, have some major credibility
11 problems.
12 MR. McMAHON: It's a collateral matter, Your Honor.
13 It's improper to go into.
14 THE COURT: Yeah. It is improper to go into. The
15 lawful order stands that excluded you. And so whether you
16 believed it was lawful or not or there were circumstances
17 that, you know, where in which you view -- believe that this
18 witness was not basing the reason for exclusion on a lawful
19 basis is not germane to the issue that's being tried today.
20 The offer -- the exclusion stands and you were to abide by
21 that exclusion except for emergency medical treatment. So --
22 and so that's -- so that's the end of this line of
23 questioning.
24 You cannot go into what was going on in his mind,
25 what his perceptions were, what his basis was, whether he

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
458
1 was, I mean, in your view truthful or untruthful, fair or
2 unfair. The outcome of that interaction was there was a
3 Notice of Exclusion. It was prepared. It was, according to
4 the testimony, offered to you and refused. Whether or not
5 that's accurate it was prepared and provided to you. And
6 that is the basis for the exclusion. And then we move ahead
7 to 2016 when you were -- when that exclusion was acted
8 upon --
9 MR. STULL: Right.
10 THE COURT: -- and whether that was reasonable or
11 not is something you're going to present to the jury. So you
12 cannot go into the circumstances surrounding the basis for
13 the exclusion. The exclusion stands from 2011.
14 MR. STULL: Okay. All right. I just do -- I --
15 I'm just going to enter my objection --
16 THE COURT: Yes. Your objection's noted.
17 MR. STULL: -- for the record.
18 THE COURT: And -- and the reasoning is, Your
19 Honor, is that this exclusion itself was a product of the
20 interaction where basically I was minding my own business and
21 I had a stranger, albeit a Legacy Emanuel security officer
22 come up and -- and falsely -- and offensively accuse me of
23 smelling like alcohol when I didn't.
24 THE COURT: No. I -- I understand --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
459
1 THE COURT: -- that that is your continuing
2 contention --
3 MR. STULL: And -- and --
4 THE COURT: -- and the basis upon which you want to
5 discredit this witness's actions in executing an exclusion.
6 MR. STULL: Right.
7 THE COURT: But that is not relevant to the
8 criminal trial today. The exclusion stands from October 11,
9 2011 -- or October 14th, 2011.
10 MR. STULL: Okay. All right.
11 THE COURT: And now we're here to try whether you
12 were -- that the State can prove beyond a reasonable doubt
13 that you violated that exclusion in entering or remaining at
14 Emanuel Hospital on November 22nd.
15 MR. STULL: Okay. And as far as inquiries after
16 visits between that exclusion being issued in 2011 and the --
17 I'll correct you, Your Honor, because we did just change the
18 calendar. This event was from November 2015.
19 THE COURT: '15, I'm sorry.
20 MR. STULL: So --
21 THE COURT: Yeah. 2015.
22 MR. STULL: So the -- the inquiry would be --
23 THE COURT: I know, what --
24 MR. STULL: -- is the witness aware of any other
25 subsequent returns to Emanuel Hospital in the duration

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
460
1 between that period and that period?
2 THE COURT: All right. I previously ruled that all
3 other visits or arrests or exclusions between the date that
4 established your exclusion on October 14th, 2011, and this
5 incident November of 2015 are inadmissible.
6 MR. STULL: Okay.
7 THE COURT: And that was my previous ruling before
8 we called the jury in.
9 MR. STULL: Okay. That's fine. I just want to --
10 THE COURT: That -- that you -- the -- the period
11 of inquiry is going to be from November 20th and I did allow
12 you to --
13 MR. STULL: Sure.
14 THE COURT: -- bring in what had happened from
15 November 20th to November 22nd, but nothing between October
16 14th, 2011 to November 20th as your comings and goings or
17 whatever transpired in those periods. Criminal trials are
18 about that moment in time.
19 MR. STULL: Sure. And before we forget, I did
20 offer that as an exhibit, and it hasn't been accepted by the
21 Court.
22 THE COURT: I did -- the manual?
23 MR. STULL: The -- that --
24 THE COURT: I haven't seen it, so I'm waiting for
25 Mr. McMahon's --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
461
1 MR. McMAHON: I --
2 MR. STULL: The witness has it right now, Your
3 Honor.
4 THE COURT: I know, but -- but the procedure is
5 that Mr. McMahon has an opportunity to object or not object.
6 And until that happens then I would -- I will not rule on it.
7 And then I will review it and make a ruling if there is an
8 objection. If he doesn't object then it will be admitted as
9 evidence.
11 MR. McMAHON: And if -- my understanding was he had
12 presented it. I was -- I was waiting for him to ask the
13 questions. At this point the State would object to lack of
14 foundation. I thought that was sort of what he was going to
15 go into when he started referencing the other questions and
16 the other document and asking him about the events. That's
17 why I raised that objection. So I think at this point we're
18 sort of off the report and that secondary collateral matter,
19 which again, Your Honor is indicated --
20 THE COURT: Well, now you're talking about the
21 manual?
22 MR. McMAHON: Yeah. Not the manual. The --
23 THE COURT: Now, well, that is --
24 MR. STULL: -- because -- because he's got two
25 things up there right now.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
462
1 THE COURT: Okay. I -- all right. I -- I thought
2 we separated the two things. So are there two pages to
3 this -- one of which is a manual and one of which is
4 something else -- the police report? I thought we separated
5 those?
6 MR. STULL: Yes.
7 MR. McMAHON: My understanding was he was referring
8 to the police giving special notice.
9 MR. STULL: No, no, no. No, it's not the police
10 report or the security guard report. It's just a Legacy
11 Hospital --
12 THE COURT: All right. It's just a manual.
13 MR. STULL: -- policy --
14 THE COURT: --and that's a Defendant's Exhibit 101
15 is -- is a two-page excerpt from the manual, correct?
16 MR. STULL: It's Legacy trespass exclusion
17 guidelines. I'll just qualify it as --
18 MR. McMAHON: No objection to the admission of that
19 document.
20 THE COURT: No objection? All right.
22 THE COURT: So Defense Exhibit 101, the manual
23 regarding exclusions and trespasses and so forth is admitted.
25 Defense Exhibit 101 was admitted

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
463
1 into evidence.)
2 MR. KELLEY: Have you offered any exhibits here?
3 MR. McMAHON: Yeah. It was offered and -- it was
4 offered and admitted earlier, remember?
5 MR. KELLEY: The no contact?
6 MR. McMAHON: The no contact thing because you had
7 just heard from the Judge --
8 MR. KELLEY: Got it.
9 MR. McMAHON: Or Exhibit 1B that --
10 MR. KELLEY: So there's one exhibit each --
11 THE COURT: Right. Well, for -- for the record
12 it's clarified that --
14 THE COURT: -- you --
15 MR. McMAHON: State's Exhibit 1 is --
16 THE COURT: -- that State's Exhibit 1 is -- was
17 being offered, correct?
18 MR. McMAHON: Yes, it is, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: And prior in the motions in limine
20 there was no objection. Mr. Stull stipulated that that would
21 be admitted into evidence in the trial.
23 THE COURT: Correct?
24 MR. STULL: Yes.
25 THE COURT: Yes. All right. So State's 1, just

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
464
1 for clarity is admitted into evidence. It's received. Okay?
4 State's Exhibit 1 was admitted
5 into evidence.)
7 MR. STULL: I think we're ready to bring the jury
8 back.
10 May I see the Exhibit now that it's been received?
11 Give it back quickly. Thank you.
12 THE COURT: All right. Thank you. All right.
13 Ready for the jury to come back then?
14 MR. STULL: Yes.
16 MR. KELLEY: Yes, thank you.
17 THE COURT: Always stand for the jury.
18 MR. KELLEY: Yep.
19 MR. STULL: Reiterate that.
20 THE CLERK: All rise for the jury.
21 (Jury enters.)
22 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you may
23 continue.
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
465
1 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Cont'd)
2 BY MR. STULL:
3 Q In your capacity as an employee as you said with
4 the -- as the security service at Emanuel -- Legacy Emanuel
5 Hospital, do you know anything about what happened in
6 November of 2015 regarding this case?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. You -- you weren't there in November?
9 A I was not present.
10 Q When did you -- when did you transfer out of
11 security into your -- your other position.
12 A Three months ago.
13 Q Okay. So -- so up until recently, but at the time
14 of -- of that event, November 2015, you were employed as --
15 as security?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Did you hear anything about the incident that took
18 place?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. Do you know anything about my medical
21 condition?
22 A I do not.
23 Q Okay. And I -- I imagine that the -- bear with
24 me -- I -- I imagine that you know about -- about the
25 facility, since that's what you do now in the last three

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
466
1 months. But do you know the property line for the -- the
2 Emanuel Hospital complex as it -- as it existed in November
3 2015?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Could you describe that to us?
6 A Kirby Avenue on the West to Freemont Street on the
7 North to Vancouver Avenue on the East to Russell Street on
8 the south.
9 Q I'm sorry. Your east -- eastern?
10 A Vancouver Avenue.
11 Q Vancouver Avenue? And the -- but -- excuse me for
12 clarifying this, but some of the property does actually go
13 over east of Vancouver?
14 A There is one medical office building on -- on
15 North Vancouver.
16 Q So with -- with the exception of that, Vancouver's
17 the eastern boundary?
18 A Right.
19 Q Okay. And if somebody's excluded with a trespass
20 exclusion policy, and they enter from any of those boundary
21 streets from Kirby, from Freemont, from Vancouver, from
22 Russell, and they step onto the property. Does that
23 violate the trespass exclusion?
24 A Unless they are there seeking emergency medical
25 treatment, then yes, it does.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
467
1 Q So a person -- one foot onto the property at
2 Vancouver Avenue would be considered excluded, correct?
3 A Correct.
4 Q Whether or not they're inside a building?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Okay. No further questions, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Okay. Any redirect?
8 MR. McMAHON: Very briefly.
9 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. McMAHON:
11 Q You have a Legacy Emanuel Hospital policy relating
12 to exclusion, correct? That's -- that is Defense 101?
13 A Is that -- it's a Visitor Behavior Management
14 Policy.
15 Q Okay. Does that also include proper procedures
16 for excluding someone from the property?
17 A I -- well, it gives you basically reason why
18 someone can be excluded from the property but it does not
19 go over the procedure for doing so.
20 Q Okay. Is that a -- is that a policy or is that
21 sort of a generalized manual?
22 A This or the procedure for and to exclude?
23 Q Just that, just Defense Exhibit 101?
24 A Defense Exhibit is just -- it's a system-wide
25 Legacy Health Policy regarding Visitor Behavior Management

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
468
1 and what is and what is not appropriate.
2 Q Okay. Was Mr. Stull excluded in accordance with
3 that policy on October 14th, 2011?
4 MR. STULL: I object, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Basis?
6 MR. STULL: It -- it exceeds direct.
7 THE COURT: Pardon me?
8 MR. STULL: It exceeds direct. It's beyond the
9 scope. It exceeds --
10 THE COURT: You -- you -- overruled because you
11 introduced the document.
12 MR. McMAHON: I'll re-ask the question.
13 BY MR. McMAHON:
14 Q Was Mr. Stull excluded and excluded from property
15 in accordance with that policy?
16 A Yes, he was.
17 Q Okay. Thank you.
18 MR. McMAHON: No further questions.
19 THE COURT: Okay. You may step down. Any reasons
20 this witness may not be excused?
21 MR. McMAHON: No, Your Honor, but I believe if the
22 jury's going to be -- I don't know if the jury had any
23 questions or if there was going to be more --
24 THE COURT: If you have a question you need to
25 raise your hand so that I'm aware of that. So --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
469
2 THE COURT: -- no hands have been raised. Okay.
4 THE COURT: Okay. May step down.
5 (Witness excused.)
6 THE COURT: Give it to the Clerk, please.
7 THE COURT: Call your next witness, please.
8 MR. McMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. The State will
9 call David Davies to the stand.
11 THE CLERK: Stand up there. Remain standing.
12 Raise your right hand. Under the penalty of perjury do you
13 solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give
14 in this case will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing
15 but the truth?
16 MR. DAVIES: I do.
17 THE CLERK: Have a seat and state and spell your
18 name for the record.
19 MR. DAVIES: David Davies: D-a-v-i-e-s.
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
470
1 WHEREUPON,
2 OFFICER DAVID DAVIES,
6 BY MR. McMAHON:
7 Q Good afternoon, Mr. Davies.
8 A Good afternoon.
9 Q What's your current occupation?
10 A I'm a safety and security officer at Legacy Health
11 Systems assigned to Emanuel Hospital.
12 Q How long have you been with Legacy?
13 A Five years this last month.
14 Q Okay. And what are your duties involved in that
15 position?
16 A We provide security for the hospital, safety for
17 the visitors, patients and staff, perform routine patrols,
18 deal with situations that may come about where the legal
19 responders for any -- any issues that may come up.
20 Q Now are you designated as a person in charge of
21 the premises at Legacy Emanuel?
22 A Yes. I am.
23 Q Who designated you as that person?
24 A Crystal, that's our security manager, and Aaron --
25 and I'm not familiar with his last name is our security

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
471
1 director. And as members of the security force we're
2 designated in charge.
3 Q And do you have authority to trespass individuals
4 from the property?
5 A Yes. I do.
6 Q And as a part of that authority are you able to
7 handcuff or detain individuals?
8 A Yes. I am.
9 Q So I want to talk about the night of November
10 23rd, 2015. Were you on duty that night?
11 A Yes. I was.
12 Q What were you doing?
13 A Routine patrols on -- on the night shift. We are
14 generally going to be a more robust presence in the
15 emergency room area. I was in the emergency room waiting
16 areas just monitoring situations and keeping tabs on who
17 was doing what.
18 Q And as you were doing that in the early morning
19 hours did you notice anything unusual?
20 A I was notified by one of my other officers,
21 Officer Gochez (ph) that there was an individual who had
22 just been discharged from the emergency room after
23 treatment being completed and that he had a criminal
24 trespass warning on file with us.
25 Q Okay. And what happened after you got that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
472
1 information?
2 A So I went to the ED Lobby and checked in with the
3 admitter, the person who you -- you would go and -- and
4 check in with, would set you up to go to the back, and
5 asked about the subject. And they indicated to me that the
6 person was in the public restrooms at that time right off
7 the emergency room waiting area.
8 Q And what did you do after you got that
9 information?
10 A I stood by and watched and waited. And the
11 subject proceeded to exit the -- the bathrooms. And then
12 instead of turning toward to come back to the waiting room
13 and toward the exit, he turned the other direction which
14 would lead him farther into the hospital.
15 Q Is that individual present in Court today?
16 A Yes. He is.
17 Q Would you please identify him by or by where he's
18 sitting and what they are wearing?
19 A Subject is right here. It's Mr. Barry Stull. He
20 is wearing a black jacket. Has a full facial beard.
21 Q May the record reflect that he's identified the
22 Defendant.
23 THE COURT: So -- so ordered.
24 BY MR. McMAHON:
25 Q So you say you're actually -- so let's get a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
473
1 little bit of the -- so you were actually standing sort of
2 between him and the -- the closest exit to the door at this
3 point?
4 A So the waiting room -- we have a white board?
5 Q Yeah.
6 A Do I need to stay here or move the microphone?
7 THE COURT: And let me just say, Mr. Stull and Mr.
8 Kelley, you're free to move around the courtroom if --
10 THE COURT: -- there's some visual block here as
11 the witness diagrams.
13 BY MR. McMAHON:
14 Q Okay. Could you just briefly diagram the area
15 where you first saw Mr. Stull?
16 A The bathroom -- this is the waiting area. The
17 bathrooms are here. The check-in booth is right here. I
18 was stationed here.
19 Q Okay. So -- let me -- I'm actually -- I'm going
20 to slow you down a little bit. So we're going -- we're
21 going to start writing some stuff on. So how about -- the
22 thing you identify as the bathroom, could you please
23 identify that with a V please? And then check --
24 THE COURT: I'm going to ask Mr. Davies, after he
25 marks something to move aside so that the Court and -- and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
474
1 Mr. Stull and his counsel -- legal advisor can see instead
2 of waiting until it's all over. Okay?
4 BY MR. McMAHON:
5 Q And just to clarify that -- that "W" that's --
6 A The waiting room.
7 Q Okay. And I made a box next to that "X". Can you
8 label what the box is?
9 A Well, this box is the admitter's booth. This is
10 where the admitter would -- you would come in from the --
11 the entrance. Come to here. They would check you in and
12 register you to be seen. And the emergency room is down
13 here.
14 Q Okay. Why don't you just go ahead and write "ER"
15 at the hallway or the end of the emergency room.
16 A Sideways --
17 THE COURT: And would you mark where the entrance
18 is?
19 BY MR. McMAHON:
20 Q And approximately how far was it from that
21 admission desk to the bathroom where you saw Mr. Stull come
22 out?
23 A 30, 35 feet, something along those lines I
24 would -- I would estimate.
25 Q Okay. So with the circle, why don't you just draw

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
475
1 where Mr. Stull first came out? Okay? What happened after
2 you saw him exit the bathroom?
3 A Mr. Stull exited the bathroom and then proceeded
4 to go this direction, which would lead him back into -- to
5 the -- there is actually a hallway connecting here. This
6 side goes to Randall's Children's Hospital. This direction
7 leads into -- deeper into Emanuel Hospital.
8 Q Okay. So the direction he was going is there an
9 exit or a way out that way?
10 A Well, he could have gone out this direction and
11 gone up to the front of -- or Randall's Children's and
12 exited through the front. He could have gone into this
13 direction and gone to the emergency room for Randall's and
14 exited that way. If he had gone this direction, which is
15 where he did, this leads deeper into the hospital.
16 Obviously there's going to be other exits from the
17 hospital, but by no means the closest.
18 Q Okay. So the closest -- the closest way out,
19 where was it?
20 A Well, assuming he didn't go this way; it would
21 have been coming around here and exiting through Randall's
22 Children's Emergency.
23 Q Well, let's say he -- he didn't have to go that
24 way. Let's say where was the closest way for him to leave
25 the building when he exited the bathroom?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
476
1 A It would have been to go back out the emergency
2 room exit this way.
3 Q Okay. But he didn't go to the nearest exit at
4 that point?
5 A No, sir. This is not to scale. Of course, I'm
6 not very good at this.
7 Q And I want to clarify. The exits and the
8 entrances on this are they pretty clearly labeled?
9 A Yes, sir. Meeting all building standards, they
10 have the illuminated exit signs above them.
11 Q And where Mr. Stull was standing at the bathroom,
12 is it pretty clear that the closest exit was that entrance?
13 A Well, this would have been the entrance he would
14 have come in because at night this is the only entrance,
15 this entrance, and the Randall's Children's entrances were
16 the only ones that are unlocked. So he would have come in
17 this -- this entrance -- way being checked in, and you
18 know, would have been the -- the easiest way out. There
19 was other exits other than this way, but, you know, not --
20 not as clearly marked or -- and not as readily available.
21 Q Now the entrance you've drawn on that map, are
22 there resources such as bus schedules or a phone to call a
23 cab?
24 A The phone is here in the waiting room. Right here
25 is a phone.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
477
1 Q Okay.
2 A And, no, there are not bus schedules or such.
3 Q Is there an area in Emanuel Hospital where there
4 are bus schedules and that sort of information?
5 A Not that I can think of.
6 Q Is there a point in Emanuel Hospital that would
7 have like a rack of what the bus schedules are?
8 A No. There is not.
9 Q So I guess, principally, if Mr. Stull wanted to
10 leave most quickly that night where would he -- where
11 should he have gone?
12 A He should have gone out the entrance here. There
13 are possibilities to go out through the front of -- of
14 Randall's hospital and that would have put him -- if he'd
15 gone out this way he would have been up close to the
16 parking structure and right on the other side of the
17 parking structure is the bus stop. Most people come out of
18 this way and go down Kirby Street. And then from there
19 they can get to the bus by going right or they get to the
20 MAX tracks on the left.
21 Q Okay. So --
22 THE COURT: And -- and for clarification again,
23 when you say "this way", you were pointing toward the way
24 which you would exit past Randall? And so --
25 THE WITNESS: Yes. If he had gone up through the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
478
1 front of Randall Hospital and exited through the front of
2 Randall Hospital --
3 THE COURT: That's where the bus stops would be?
4 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. That would have been --
5 put him closest to Vancouver Street where the bus stop is.
6 Corner of Vancouver and Gantenbein.
7 THE COURT: All right. So as you do direct and
8 cross-examination, if there's some reference you pointed
9 out, if you could clarify for the record what that
10 reference actually indicates?
11 MR. McMAHON: Absolutely. Okay. Thank you, Your
12 Honor.
13 BY MR. McMAHON:
14 Q So what happened after you saw Mr. Stull go
15 towards the hallway between Randall's Children Hospital and
16 Emanuel Hospital?
17 A As I saw him go through the door -- go this
18 direction I started to follow trying to catch up. When I
19 came around the corner he was already out of sight. Came
20 around the corner and he had -- all the way up to here --
21 Q Wait. And just to clarify, when you say here, for
22 the record could you say where "here" is?
23 A So at this point is where we're up now where the C
24 Bank elevators are. So this is deeper into the Emanuel
25 Hospital. From this point his only other probable route

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
479
1 would have taken him to the center of the hospital where
2 the atrium is and the Heartbeat Café, which is open 24
3 hours a day, or to other hallways that could have led him
4 to other parts of the hospital.
5 Q Okay. But not to an exit?
6 A Well, there's exits all over the place. None of
7 where they're going to be closest by any means. And the
8 hospital at this hour of the night is closed, so we're only
9 open to patients and visitors of patients and people who
10 have direct business in the hospital at that point.
11 Q Okay. So at this point, after you saw Mr. Stull
12 walking towards Emanuel Hospital, what did you do?
13 A I followed in a -- and attempted to catch up. I
14 caught up to them here by the C Bank elevators. At this
15 point I got his attention and -- and identified myself.
16 And told Mr. Stull -- said he had a criminal trespass on
17 file with us which meant that he was not allowed to stay in
18 the hospital after being seen; that he would have to leave
19 at this point.
20 Q And to your knowledge, had he been discharged from
21 the hospital?
22 A Yes. I checked in when I -- I checked in with the
23 admitters here. I was informed at that point that he had
24 already been discharged.
25 Q And what happened to him when you caught up to him

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
480
1 at the elevators?
2 A He said, "Nope. I am not stopping." And he
3 continued to try and move farther into the hospital. I
4 stepped up front to block him and direct him back toward
5 the emergency exit -- emergency room exit, and he turned
6 around suddenly and said, "Fine. I'm going to go sit in
7 the lobby." And I said, "Well, you'll have to leave." And
8 he kept, you know, "Nope. I’m not." And he's turning and
9 he's moving at a fast pace coming back this way.
10 Q Now just again for the record, when you're saying,
11 he's moving out this way -- let's -- where did you start
12 and where did you end?
13 A So we were -- he turned -- he turned around at the
14 C Bank elevators and proceeded to go back the direction he
15 came heading toward the emergency room waiting area and
16 therefore the emergency room exit.
17 Q What happened after he headed back to towards the
18 emergency room?
19 A As we were passing down the hallway toward
20 Randall's Children's getting ready to take the left to go
21 toward the emergency room exit, Officer Gochez came at met
22 us at this exit -- entrance here where the hallways met.
23 And -- and Mr. Stull was at this point still yelling that
24 he's not going to leave. "I'm refusing to leave. I'm
25 going to go sit down and I'm going to stay." And Officer

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
481
1 Gochez and myself indicated that no, you're not. His voice
2 was -- was very loud. He is now starting to wave his arms
3 around.
4 At this point we decided that we wanted him to
5 exit as soon as possible and from the absolute closest
6 exit. So there is a fire escape exit right here, right
7 around the corner at the corner of Randall's Children's
8 Hospital that exits into a courtyard between Randall's
9 Children's and Emanuel, now the closest way to get him
10 outside and therefore stopping the commotion so close to
11 the emergency room for the children.
12 Q Okay. And when you say you wanted to get him
13 outside right away, why did you want to do that?
14 A He was very, very, very loud. He'd swing -- swing
15 his arms around and seem to be unstable. There was
16 potential that this was going to turn into a physical
17 confrontation. We just wanted to get this outside of the
18 hospital grounds as soon as we can.
19 Q What -- what makes you think it might have been a
20 physical confrontation?
21 A He was not -- this was not a -- a -- I'm just -- I
22 didn't want to leave. It was arms flailing, charging
23 around, he's trying to force his way past us to go toward
24 the waiting room. We're indicating this is the way you're
25 going to exit, and he's insisting that he's going to go

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
482
1 past and through us.
2 Q Now, when he was saying all of this, did he say
3 anything about wanting to leave through the emergency room
4 entrance?
5 A No, sir. He insisted that he was going to the
6 lobby and he was going to sit and we could not tell him to
7 leave.
8 Q Did he say anything about wanting to get to the
9 bus station?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q Did he say anything about will you please walk me
12 out to the bus station or any information about bus
13 schedules?
14 A No, sir. And if he had, I mean, if -- the point
15 of the matter was we would have just walked up to the front
16 to Randall which would have put us closest to the bus
17 station.
18 Q But he didn't say anything about wanting to -- to
19 get out, or to go get a stop or to go to the bus?
20 A No, sir.
21 Q At any point did he indicate that he wanted
22 some -- you Emanuel?
23 A No, sir. He kept insisting that he was going to
24 the lobby, and he was going to sit down and we could not
25 stop him.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
483
1 Q What happened after that?
2 A So he kept trying to force his way through and
3 finally he made physical contact with Officer Gochez, and
4 everybody quickly moving toward him and made physical
5 contact chest to chest. I reached up and I grabbed, I
6 believe it was his left arm, to try and pull him away from
7 Officer Gochez. At this point he became rather violent
8 throwing his arms around and trying to pull away and just
9 flailing his arms around.
10 At this point there was a concern about us being
11 struck. It was obvious he was not going to leave of his
12 own accord. Officer Gochez took his right arm. I had his
13 left arm. We tried to take control. During the process we
14 had to take him to the ground and at this point we just --
15 we informed him that we were placing him under arrest for
16 criminal trespass. I -- we got his hands behind his back.
17 I applied handcuffs to him. I double-locked the handcuffs
18 and checked to make sure that they were properly fitted.
19 We attempted to stand him up. He's still yelling
20 at us. He's cursing at us. We stand up. We start walking
21 toward Randall's Children's Hospital. The -- the intent
22 was to walk him up to the front and then outside where we
23 would wait for the police, therefore, no longer be causing
24 an incident inside where -- for the children and various
25 parents and such. We got just here to the right turning

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
484
1 the corner when Mr. Stull refused to walk any farther and
2 he proceeded to let his legs go limp. And we, then, of
3 course, lifted -- basically lift -- take him to -- lower
4 him to the ground.
5 We attempted to get him to stand up. He refused.
6 He refused. He was right in the middle of the connection
7 where this hallway connects to a hallway that runs this
8 direction --
9 Q And a hospital -- and again, just for the record,
10 you're referring to the Randall Children's Hospital sort of
11 the very top of the drawing and I guess, north of the
12 emergency room right there?
13 A It would be actually facing east --
14 Q Pardon me.
15 A -- and then there's also the entrance to the
16 emergency room. He was -- laid himself on the ground
17 directly where these two hallways and the entrance to the
18 emergency room is making it difficult for any families or
19 other folks -- people coming in for emergency treatment to
20 pass him.
21 Q And - and approximately what time is this?
22 A I would have to refer to my report. I don't
23 remember.
24 Q Would it refresh your recollection to look at your
25 report?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
485
1 A It would.
2 Q Okay. Do you have a copy of it or?
3 A It is over there with my --so the incident began
4 at midnight. So we were probably at this point seven to 10
5 minutes after midnight at the most.
6 Q If Mr. Stull had asked you or said, "Okay, I'm
7 going to leave," at any point in time would you have let
8 him?
9 A Absolutely. We would have pointed to the -- to
10 the nearest exit and walked with him. We do this all the
11 time on a nightly basis. People that are -- we have to
12 escort out of the hospital for various reasons. You tell
13 me you need to go to the bus stop; I will walk you to the
14 bus stop. We have bus passes to get out. If you tell me
15 you need to go to MAX, I will show you where the MAX is and
16 give you the best directions to it. You know, if you
17 said -- say that I need medical transport, we'll check with
18 the admitters and see if you're -- see if you're healthcare
19 covers it. If it does, we'll show you where the phone is
20 and get you the phone number to call.
21 It doesn't do us any good to put somebody out on
22 the street if they have no means for getting away or going
23 to -- going home. Because what are they going to do? But
24 they're still going to be on my property, on the edge of my
25 property and most likely coming back and causing a further

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
486
1 problem. You know, our job is to maintain the peace on the
2 property, but part of that is, I -- if you need to go
3 someplace, I'm going to facilitate that because that makes
4 my job easier.
5 Q Okay. Just briefly, this next question -- did
6 this occur within the city limits of Portland?
7 A Yes. It did.
8 Q In the State of Oregon?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Okay. And the timeframe, what day was it sounds
11 like it kind of spanned two days?
12 A I don't know the -- what the week it was. It was
13 the 23rd of November, so it would have been it all -- it
14 all spanned on the same day, 23rd of November.
15 Q Okay. And to your knowledge at that point did he
16 have a valid exclusion still in effect?
17 A Yes, sir. Our exclusions are for life unless
18 they're rescinded in writing from the security department
19 manager.
20 Q Okay. I'm going to go ahead and show you what's
21 been marked as State's Exhibit 1. Do you recognize what's
22 in State's Exhibit 1?
23 A Yes, sir. This is one of our standard contact
24 reports and criminal trespass warnings.
25 Q Okay. Was that the valid exclusion that was still

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
487
1 in effect for Mr. Barry Stull when you took him into
2 custody on November 23rd?
3 A Yes, sir. It was.
4 Q Thank you.
5 MR. McMAHON: I have no further questions at this
6 time.
7 THE COURT: Cross-examination?
8 MR. STULL: Yes.
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. STULL:
11 Q Good afternoon.
12 A Good afternoon.
13 Q At the time you -- the incident we're talking
14 about, you had three -- just shy of four years' experience
15 working at a security guard. Is that correct?
16 A Well, three or four years at Emanuel, working for
17 Legacy, yes.
18 Q At Emanuel?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. So you're familiar with the -- are you
21 familiar with the campus?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Are there more than one building? Is there more
24 than one building there?
25 A Yes, sir.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
488
1 Q There are a number of buildings. Is that correct?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Okay. Are you familiar with the maps that Legacy
4 publishes on its Internet --
5 A Yes.
6 Q -- webpage? Okay. And the bus stops that are
7 closest to the Legacy Hospital are located where, if you
8 don't mind?
9 A Vancouver and Gantenbein, I believe is the cross
10 street. It's right at the corner of the -- of Parking
11 Structure 1.
12 Q Would it be fair to say that the street that comes
13 out of the main entrance intersects with Vancouver Avenue?
14 A Yes, sir. That would be the corner of --
15 Q One block away?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q And that's the bus stop?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Okay.
20 MR. STULL: I want to do these each separate.
21 MR. KELLEY: Sure. I'll sticker it on.
22 THE CLERK: He is actually numbering them.
23 (Indiscernible).
24 (Pause while Defense marks exhibits.)
25 MR. STULL: Sorry.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
489
1 MR. KELLEY: So that's going to be 102. It's
2 already been recognized as 102.
3 MR. STULL: Okay. It will be --
4 MR. KELLEY: Just stick it on the back if you
5 want. (indiscernible) number of --
6 MR. STULL: Okay. And one more --
7 MR. KELLEY: I meant to write 101. This is 101.
8 MR. STULL: That's all right.
9 MR. KELLEY: Just trying to -- and we don't know
10 what's -- and if all my stickers aren't what the Court --
11 MR. STULL: Don't show this to Mr. McMahon?
12 MR. KELLEY: He's probably okay with it. Yeah.
13 MR. STULL: These are going to match.
14 MR. STULL: You might want to mark these.
15 THE CLERK: I'll hand them to the Judge now.
16 MR. McMAHON: Judge, I want to offer three Defense
17 exhibits.
18 THE COURT: Yeah. Let me see it first and then
19 you can -- did you show it to Mr. McMahon?
22 Mr. McMahon, do you have an objection?
24 THE COURT: Okay. Are these all part of the same
25 exhibit then?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
490
1 MR. STULL: Well, they're actually labeled as
2 three separate exhibits.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. STULL: Because they --
5 THE COURT: I see. This one's on the back. So
6 Defense Exhibits 102, 103, and 104 are being offered.
7 There's no objection, Mr. McMahon, is that
8 correct?
9 MR. McMAHON: Yeah. That is correct, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: They shall be received.
12 (The documents referred to as
13 Defense Exhibit 102, 103, 104 were
14 admitted into evidence.)
15 THE COURT: Yes.
17 BY MR. STULL:
18 Q If you could, could you please identify the bus
19 stop on the corner of Vancouver Avenue and North Stansen
20 in -- on those maps. There are three maps.
21 A Would you like me to mark them or?
22 Q I -- I want you to locate them first, and then
23 we'll -- can go from there.
24 MR. KELLEY: He can't write on them because
25 they've been received.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
491
1 MR. STULL: Right.
2 BY MR. STULL:
3 Q And -- and by the way, you can't write on them,
4 because they have been received as evidence. But we can
5 refer to your drawing.
6 A Okay. Yes, sir.
7 Q Have you located the bus stop?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q According to those three maps, how many of those
10 three maps can you actually see the bus stop at Vancouver
11 and North Stanford?
12 A How many of the maps can I see? I can see them --
13 all three maps.
14 Q I don't believe you can.
15 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Commentary.
16 It's improper.
17 THE COURT: Sustained.
18 BY MR. STULL:
19 Q I'm trying to give him a chance here.
20 A I can identify the location of the bus -- of the
21 bus stop on all three maps.
22 MR. STULL: May I approach?
23 THE COURT: Yes, you may.
24 THE WITNESS: Right there on that map. Yep, it
25 is. You want to -- this map, that's fine. But it's right

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
492
1 there. It's right there, and it is right there. Yes, sir.
2 Right there.
3 BY MR. STULL:
4 Q Okay.
5 A If you -- you asked me the location by -- by
6 street address, and I gave it to you and that's -- the
7 street addresses are located.
8 Q And on this map?
9 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Your Honor, I'd ask that if
10 he's talking to the witness --
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. McMAHON: -- it needs to be audible for the
13 jury.
15 MR. McMAHON: -- and for Counsel?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17 Mr. Stull, any exchange between you and the
18 witness must be heard by the Court, by Defense Counsel, and
19 by the jury. It must be in the form of a question.
20 MR. STULL: That’s fine, Your Honor. Thank you.
21 I'm -- I'm sorry for misunderstanding.
22 THE COURT: That's all right.
23 BY MR. STULL:
24 Q Referring to Defense Exhibit 102, the Vancouver --
25 is Vancouver Avenue identified on that map?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
493
1 A No, sir. It is not.
2 Q Is North Stanton Street identified on that map?
3 A Yes. It is.
4 Q so for the purpose of the jury's examination of
5 the -- that exhibit, would you characterize that Vancouver
6 Avenue could be on that map if it were labeled?
7 A Yes. Well, it could be because there would be --
8 it would fall on the map if they had just placed a label on
9 it.
10 Q Okay. And -- and looking at that with your -- as
11 you are with the page oriented, on what side of that page
12 would Vancouver Avenue appear?
13 A It would appear on the right-hand edge.
14 Q Extreme right?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Okay. Thank you. And is that map accurate
17 regarding the campus as you know it?
18 A It -- for the part of the campus that it shows,
19 yes, it does. It doesn't show the entire campus, but it
20 shows a majority.
21 Q Okay. And would -- would it be your understanding
22 that the entire portion bordered by Russell Street, North
23 Russell Street to the south, North Kirby to the west, North
24 Freemont to the north, and North Vancouver to the east make
25 up the bulk of the campus?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
494
1 A Makes up the bulk, yes, sir. Not the entirety,
2 but the bulk.
3 Q And would the entire area inside of that be
4 considered part of the prohibited zone under the trespass
5 exclusion?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q Okay. Now if I can refer to Exhibit 104, could I
8 please have you add to your map so they can correlate the
9 numbers on this map with the numbers on your drawing? Only
10 the ones that fit.
11 THE COURT: He's not -- he's not writing on the
12 map? He's writing on the drawing, right? Right?
13 Mr. Davies, you're only writing on the -- your --
14 THE WITNESS: Only on this map --
15 THE COURT: -- map, not on the -- on the exhibit.
16 THE WITNESS: -- not on the --
17 THE COURT: Yeah. Right.
18 THE WITNESS: -- map. I believe those are the
19 ones that are relevant.
20 BY MR. STULL:
21 Q Okay. And if you -- if you don't mind, could you
22 identify from the Key on -- on Exhibit -- on the exhibit
23 what those numbers refer to?
24 A Mr. Stull, this number isn't really -- this number
25 represents something on the second floor according to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
495
1 the -- according to the Legend. I was just picking it off
2 the map. This isn't the right location.
3 Q All right. You can --
4 A So this is --
5 Q -- exit out of --
6 A I'm trying to think of if there's something that
7 could be a little more appropriate. There isn't really
8 anything that's appropriate as to what for our -- for our
9 discussion.
10 Q That's fine. And I'll let you hang on to that.
11 And you may be seated at the witness stand. Now your
12 testimony was, if I can revisit this, that -- that as
13 you've marked on the -- your drawing, you followed me as I
14 left the bathroom and as I made my way through that hallway
15 to what you testified was into the Emanuel Hospital main
16 part -- part of the hospital.
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q I don't want to put words in your mouth.
19 A No. That -- that would be appropriate.
20 Q Okay. Was I headed towards the main entrance?
21 A In that direction, sir, yes, but the main entrance
22 is locked at that hour.
23 Q Was the fire exit by Elevator Bank C locked at
24 that time?
25 A No, sir. I -- I did try and -- according to my

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
496
1 report, I did try and guide you toward that direction, but
2 you refused.
3 Q Did I go anywhere that was identified in any
4 manner "Do not Enter"?
5 A No, sir. Only what I was telling you that you
6 couldn't go that direction.
7 Q And do you know that Emanuel Hospital has a -- a
8 publishes on its website that bus schedules are available
9 at the main lobby?
10 A I was unaware of --
11 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. It's
12 hearsay.
13 THE COURT: I'll -- I'll allow it.
14 THE WITNESS: No, sir. I was unaware of --
15 unaware of what they publish on their website.
16 THE COURT: And -- and not -- not for the
17 matter -- or for the truth of the matter asserted, but just
18 the effect on this witness if he knew or didn't know if
19 it's true or not that bus schedules were available.
20 BY MR. STULL:
21 Q And you testified that you escort people, whether
22 it's for exclusion purposes or just safety and security
23 purposes, you walk somebody to the parking garage, for
24 example, right?
25 A Absolutely, sir, yes.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
497
1 Q What's the nature of my medical condition?
2 A I have no idea, sir.
3 Q Did I tell you about my medical condition?
4 A Not that I remember. You said a lot of things.
5 I -- you may have and, but I do not remember.
6 Q You testified that I didn't mention anything about
7 going to the lobby to access bus schedules. Could I have
8 done that, and you just don't recall it? Can I refresh
9 your memory?
10 A I don't remember if you asked for a bus schedule
11 or not. I pointed you to the nearest exit because that's
12 the policy that you have to exit the hospital at that
13 point.
14 Q Now let me parse that out. Had I, as you've
15 suggested, gone through the fire exit, being outside that
16 fire exit, would I still have been as part -- on part of
17 the excluded property?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q When you talk about people arriving through the
20 emergency -- through the emergency department entrance as
21 you have labeled on your drawing, does that mean ambulance
22 entrance?
23 A No, sir.
24 Q Did you know I came by ambulance?
25 A No, sir.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
498
1 Q So I, in fact, didn't enter --
2 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. It's
3 testimony. It's not -- it doesn't go to anything the
4 witness said. The witness just answered he didn't know how
5 Mr. Stull arrived. And Mr. Stull is asking about that.
6 THE COURT: Sustain the objection.
7 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, his testimony was that
8 people come in through that entrance, and that -- that is,
9 in fact, not how I came in.
10 THE COURT: But that's not proper question for
11 him.
12 MR. STULL: I -- I wanted to make sure for him --
13 THE COURT: He said he didn't know.
14 MR. STULL: -- from him, I -- with this --
15 BY MR. STULL:
16 Q You said that you recalled to the attention --
17 that I was in the building by your coworker?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Now do you have people flagged for trespass
20 exclusion? Is there some -- some identifying --
21 A We have -- we have flags that -- flags in the
22 system. They're not all -- all of them are -- all in the
23 system. Sometimes it's just by officer's memory have
24 having previously dealt with people.
25 Q Was this one in the system?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
499
1 A I do not know, sir.
2 Q Well, we have the State's Exhibit that there was a
3 trespass exclusion.
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Have you -- have your testimony --
6 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor.
7 Argumentative. Asked and answered.
8 THE COURT: Sustained. You can ask a new -- ask a
9 question that's not already been asked.
10 BY MR. STULL:
11 Q Well, the -- how did you know I had a trespass
12 exclusion on the night of November 22nd, 2015?
13 A As I previously stated, Officer Gochez notified me
14 by radio that you were leaving the emergency room and had a
15 criminal trespass warning in effect.
16 Q Could you have simply not encountered me?
17 A I don't understand your question.
18 Q Well, you just testified that your coworker said
19 that I was leaving. You testified --
20 A I said --
21 Q -- that I --
22 A -- that you were -- you were leaving the
23 department heading into the waiting room. So that's where
24 I went to -- to ascertain where you were and that you were
25 exiting.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
500
1 Q Exiting --
2 A The building and then therefore exiting the
3 property.
4 Q Okay. On your map, what exit is closest to the
5 bus stop on Vancouver as you've identified?
6 A On the map?
7 Q Not on that map. Is it -- is it on that map?
8 That's a good question. Is it on that map?
9 A I pointed out --
10 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Vague. I'm
11 not sure -- he's -- it's on the map. It's not clear what
12 he's asking.
13 THE COURT: Yeah. Yeah. Rephrase your question
14 so it's a complete question.
15 BY MR. STULL:
16 Q Is the closest exit from Emanuel Hospital
17 building, the one that's closest to the bus stop, is it on
18 your map you drew?
19 A It's indicated -- we indicated it in the top --
20 we -- when we were speaking about it. There's an exit here
21 at the Randall's Children's Hospital, right -- a fire exit
22 that would lead into the courtyard. We'd gone to the front
23 of Randall's Children's Hospital, there's an exit there
24 that would have led to outside that would have put you
25 right on -- on Gantenbein. And the C Bank elevator exit

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
501
1 that I initially tried to guide you toward would have also
2 put you into the same courtyard. All three of them would
3 have been -- would have been within literally two or three
4 steps of the same distance.
5 By traveling through the hospital to the main entrance
6 you would have been at a significantly longer distance and
7 would have required taking you to -- toward doors that
8 were -- that were secured and locked in an area that's not
9 open to the public at that hour.
10 Q Had I walked out the lobby entrance doors, the
11 main lobby --
12 A You would have been unable to because those doors
13 are locked and secure.
14 Q Well, how were they locked?
15 A Double-key lock that requires a key to unlock it.
16 Q That a fire hazard?
17 A No, sir. There's fire doors.
18 Q Are they alarmed?
19 A No, sir.
20 Q So the fire door -- fire -- bear with me. You
21 worked years for security and some of the doors and some of
22 them are unlocked from the inside? Is that?
23 A Yes, sir. Just like in any commercial building.
24 Q And how is a person on the inside of the building
25 supposed to know what doors are locked without

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
502
1 investigating whether they're locked or not?
2 A It would be by trial and error going up to the
3 door and seeing if it opens. If you see a dead-bolt lock
4 on your side of it, and it's after -- after business hours,
5 my assumption would be that you would therefore recognize
6 that maybe that door might be locked.
7 Q Could you unlock that to let somebody exit the
8 building?
9 A Yes, sir, I can.
10 Q Okay. So would it have been possible for you
11 to observed me passively without interacting with me and
12 simply watching me go down the hall through the complex to
13 the main lobby, go over to the bus rack, look at a bus
14 schedule on what the website advertises are there, or
15 perhaps use the telephone to call a cab, which the website
16 advertises --
17 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor.
18 He's --
19 MR. STULL: If you would have simply let me go
20 through the door --
21 MR. McMAHON: He's clearly testifying.
22 MR. STULL: -- and let me out of the building
23 closest to the -- the bus stop?
24 THE COURT: When there is an objection you need to
25 stop.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
503
1 MR. STULL: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: All right. We'll sustain the
3 objection. You can ask a question as to -- that has not
4 already been asked -- the closest door or what the
5 authority that this officer would have to direct you toward
6 any door.
7 BY MR. STULL:
8 Q Did you have to approach me from behind and stop
9 my -- my progress?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q Why?
12 A Because the policy is that you're to leave the
13 property immediately. The closest exit was the ones I was
14 pointing you to. And if I had allowed you to continue
15 farther into the hospital, then we'd create -- have the
16 potential for creating a farther incident deeper in the
17 hospital where other family members and -- and patients
18 might be. The policy is you're to exit by the closest
19 exit.
20 Q Do you have that policy with you?
21 A No, sir.
22 Q Is it written somewhere?
23 A The policy is that you have to immediately exit.
24 Immediately would probably indicate the closest exit.
25 Q But could you explain, please, the benefit of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
504
1 having somebody leave the building at a point that's
2 actually further from them leaving the property?
3 A The closest exit to leaving the property would
4 have been through the emergency room exit or through the
5 Randall -- well, actually no, the closest one would have
6 been through the emergency room exit to leave the property
7 entirely. To leave the building at that particular moment
8 was the C Bank elevator emergency exit which I initially
9 pointed you toward, but you refused. And, of course, you
10 have to exit the building before you can get toward exiting
11 the property.
12 Q Thank you. If you could look at the -- frankly,
13 any of those maps; please describe to all of us what path
14 you feel would have been appropriate once I came out of the
15 restroom following my coming out of the emergency
16 department. We have your circle. Please audibly, because
17 this is for the record, please audibly describe how I
18 appropriately should have left first the building and the
19 second, the entire complex.
20 A If you had exited the bathrooms and turned to the
21 right retracing your -- your steps past the waiting room to
22 the exit from the emergency room Department, and then had
23 continued toward the exit from the emergency room lobby,
24 that would have placed you in the turnaround where people
25 drive up to drop off patients/pick up patients. From

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
505
1 there, the exit off property to Kirby Street is visible
2 about 50 -- 60 yards.
3 Q So not quite 200 feet to Kirby Street?
4 A From the bathrooms --
5 Q But close --
6 A From the bathrooms we're probably talking close to
7 80 yards or so.
8 Q So if we could talk about what we have around
9 here, city blocks, would it be less than one block or more
10 than one block?
11 A In estimation it would be more than one block.
12 Q And that would be actually on the extreme west
13 side of the complex as far as possible from Vancouver
14 Avenue. Is that not correct?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q And then there's the matter of transecting the
17 entire campus in order to get over to Vancouver Avenue.
18 A I had no idea where you needed to go, sir. You
19 never indicated the bus stop to me. So, therefore, I would
20 have put -- I would have directed you to the closest
21 direction to get off campus, which would have been toward
22 Kirby Street, by exiting the front of the emergency room.
23 If you had indicated to me that you wanted to go to the
24 bus, I would have escorted you up to the front of Randall,
25 which would have been the shortest path -- path to get to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
506
1 the bus stop, and would have escorted you all the way to
2 the bus stop.
3 Q What was I wearing that night?
4 A You were wearing shorts, and if I remember right
5 it was a -- like a Hawaiian-ish button up shirt.
6 Q What was the weather?
7 A I don't remember, sir.
8 Q You said that during this encounter at your second
9 arrow -- leaving the bathroom there's an arrow and then --
10 you testified that there was a need to have actually get in
11 front of me and block my process. Is that correct? Do you
12 remember?
13 A Yes, sir. It was actually slightly farther than
14 that arrow. It would have been in the area of the C Bank
15 elevator here. I blocked your progress from going farther
16 into the hospital.
17 Q And if we look on Exhibit -- can you locate a --
18 the C Bank elevator -- elevators?
19 A I can locate the location. They're not marked --
20 well, actually this -- on Exhibits 102, they are actually
21 marked. It's the C Bank elevators, yes, sir.
22 Q Okay.
23 MR. STULL: No further questions.
24 THE COURT: Redirect.
25 May I see that exhibit, please?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
507
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am.
3 MR. McMAHON: Actually if I could see that, just
4 referencing -- kind of --
5 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I did want to incorporate
6 the -- the drawing as an exhibit.
7 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I was actually going to
8 admit that during my redirect, so no objection.
9 MR. STULL: Okay.
10 THE COURT: It actually will be admitted and we'll
11 mark that as Defendant's Exhibit 100 --
12 MR. STULL: Or -- or the State's. I didn't want
13 to cut him off if he -- he intended to do that. I just
14 didn’t' want to miss the opportunity to --
15 THE COURT: All right. State's Exhibit 2?
16 MR. McMAHON: 2. Sure.
19 THE COURT: All right. Shall be received.
20 MR. KELLEY: Exhibit State's exhibit or?
21 MR. STULL: State's.
22 MR. KELLEY: State's Exhibit. Got it.
23 THE COURT: Just one moment. I'll give this to
24 you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
508
1 State's Exhibit 2 was admitted
2 into evidence.)
4 BY MR. McMAHON:
5 Q So, if you just could go ahead and step down here.
6 So Defendant Exhibit 102 --
7 MR. McMAHON: Could I have permission to publish
8 this to the jury so we can actually kind of know what we're
9 talking about?
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 Any objection? Publish to jury -- I mean, be
12 passed along to the jurors?
13 MR. STULL: That's fine, Your Honor. Thank you.
14 No objection.
15 BY MR. McMAHON:
16 Q So the -- there's actually a little north arrow
17 indicating -- I think we're kind of looking at this, so if
18 I can get you to --
19 A If you were to turn -- this would be north.
20 Q Great. So actually if I can grab a marker that
21 way -- what I'm going to have you do is just write a big
22 "N" --
23 MR. STULL: Your Honor, if -- an aid of an
24 objection. They're -- they're going to alter the exhibit
25 that's been received.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
509
1 MR. McMAHON: Beg your pardon. I should have done
2 that -- that alteration before I moved to admit.
3 Mr. Stull, would you permit me to allow him to
4 draw a North --
5 MR. STULL: And so -- we can readmit it.
6 I -- I just wanted to point that out, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: The -- the exhibit has been received.
8 You're correct, Mr. Stull, though Mr. McMahon is asking
9 leave to have the witness identify the compass directions
10 on the map and nothing further. Is that correct?
11 MR. McMAHON: Exactly.
12 THE COURT: And you have --
13 MR. STULL: Oh is that -- no objection, Your
14 Honor.
15 THE COURT: All right. No objection so go ahead.
16 MR. STULL: No. No.
17 BY MR. STULL:
18 Q You should go ahead and draw an "N" and an arrow
19 pointing north. So let's actually take that from
20 Harrison -- Defense Exhibit 102, if you can kind of hold it
21 out so that the jury can see a little bit of it, you just
22 sort of gesture at it this way.
23 A This way would be north --
24 Q Okay.
25 A -- on the map and on the exhibit.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
510
1 THE COURT: Feel free to pull it over closer to
2 the jury.
3 And again, feel free, Mr. Stull, to move to see
4 what's going on. It's a very little map, so --
5 MR. McMAHON: Do you need to see, Your Honor?
6 THE COURT: No, that's all right. Go ahead.
7 BY MR. McMAHON:
8 Q You can point out on the map sort of where the
9 emergency entrance is so the jury can see it.
10 A So the adult emergency entrance is here.
11 Q And why don't you point it out on the map?
12 A Right here.
13 Q I want you to point out where the C Bank elevators
14 are.
15 A C Bank elevators are here.
16 Q Okay.
17 A And that is here.
18 Q How about Randall's Children Hospital?
19 A The children's hospital is here with the emergency
20 entrance here. And that would have been basically from
21 this point up.
22 Q Okay.
23 A And then that.
24 Q And finally the emergency waiting room -- or the
25 emergency department waiting room, please.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
511
1 A So the adult emergency room is here, and that
2 would be right here on the map.
3 Q All right. Thank you, Mr. Davies. Please go
4 ahead and take your seat up there. Mr. Davies, at any
5 point did Mr. Stull say he was trying to leave?
6 A No, sir.
7 Q Did he say he was trying to go to the main exit?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q Did he say anything to you about wanting to
10 stay --
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q -- at the hospital? What did he say?
13 A He said, "Nope, I'm not leaving. I'm going to go
14 sit in the lobby."
16 THE COURT: All right. Any reasons this witness
17 may not be excused?
18 MR. McMAHON: None from the State, Your Honor.
20 MR. STULL: No, Your Honor, thank you.
21 THE COURT: All right. You're free to leave.
22 Thank you.
23 THE WITNESS: Thank you, ma'am.
25 THE COURT: Your next witness?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
512
1 MR. McMAHON: And, Your Honor, if I may check
2 outside.
3 THE COURT: Sure.
4 MR. McMAHON: I was texting my officer to make
5 sure that they were available. So I'm going to go run
6 outside. I believe it will be Officer Jena Lemke.
7 THE COURT: We're talking Jena Lemke?
8 MR. McMAHON: Beg your pardon?
9 THE COURT: Officer Jena Lemke.
10 MR. KELLEY: Yes, Judge.
11 MR. McMAHON: Step -- if you just want to go right
12 up there and --
13 THE CLERK: Step up here. Once you step up, if
14 you could remain standing and raise your right hand.
15 Under the penalty of perjury do you solemnly swear
16 or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this case
17 will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
18 OFFICER LEMKE: I do.
19 THE CLERK: Please have a seat and then state and
20 spell your name for the record.
21 OFFICER LEMKE: Officer Jena Lemke. First name is
22 Jena; J-e-n-a; and last is Lemke; L-e-m-k-e.
23 THE CLERK: Okay.
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
513
1 WHEREUPON,
2 OFFICER JENA LEMKE,
6 BY MR. McMAHON:
7 Q Good afternoon, Officer Lemke. What is your
8 current occupation?
9 A Police officer at North Precinct with the Portland
10 Police Bureau.
11 Q How long have you been with the Oregon Police?
12 A A little bit more than four years.
13 Q And what sort of training do you go through or
14 qualifications are there to become a police officer?
15 A Every police officer in the State of Oregon goes
16 to the Basic Police Academy for 16 weeks. And then
17 Portland has their own internal advanced academy for an
18 additional eight weeks.
19 Q And you say you're posted at North Precinct. What
20 are your duties at North Precinct involve?
21 A I'm a patrol officer currently assigned to the
22 night shift. The district that I worked and have worked
23 either on night shift or we had a -- another shift that I
24 just moved from is 590, which -- where is Emanuel Hospital
25 is located.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
514
1 Q And were you on duty on November 23rd, 2015?
2 A I was.
3 Q Were you alone? Were you with a partner?
4 A I was alone.
5 Q Were you on foot? Were you in a patrol car?
6 A A car.
7 Q See -- it looks like you're in plainclothes. Were
8 you in uniform or were you plainclothes that night?
9 A No, I was in uniform in a marked patrol car.
10 Q Did you respond to a call at -- Legacy Emanuel?
11 A I did.
12 Q What sort of a call was it?
13 A It was a criminal trespass call. So it either
14 comes out as a trespassing call or an unwanted person
15 usually.
16 Q What happened when you responded?
17 A We were told that there's basically a corridor
18 that basically goes between Legacy Emanuel Hospital and
19 Randall Children's Hospital, so it's an internal corridor.
20 We were told that there was a person that was in custody
21 and that had been taken into custody by Emanuel security
22 guards for trespassing at the hospital. And we were
23 requested to respond to the scene and take that person in.
24 Q Okay. Is that individual present in court today?
25 A Yes. He is.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
515
1 Q Please identify where he is sitting and what he is
2 wearing.
3 A Mr. Stull, with a black jacket on and grey pants.
4 Q When you arrived on scene, where was Mr. Stull
5 (indiscernible)?
6 A There's -- like I said there's a corridor area.
7 And if I remember correctly -- like this was about more
8 than a year ago, but there's a -- some columns or like
9 pillars basically, and he was sitting down on the floor.
10 He was handcuffed with his hands behind his back. And
11 there was a number of security guards that were with him.
12 Q At that point did you take him into custody?
13 A We actually -- if I remember correctly, we
14 actually walked him out to my car. So he had told us that
15 if -- he basically he had said that he wasn't going to
16 leave or we'd have to like drag him out of the hospital
17 unless we gave him business cards. So at that point -- I'm
18 sorry, Officer Silverman was with me. So he came as a
19 cover officer.
20 So we both gave him our business cards and he
21 stood up and walked out to the patrol car. Since the
22 security officers had their handcuffs on them, we just
23 basically replaced the set of handcuffs, and then inventory
24 the person to make sure they obviously don't have any like
25 weapons or anything like that. And then have them sit down

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
516
1 in the backseat of the patrol car.
2 Q Once you had him in the backseat of the patrol
3 car, where did you take him?
4 A To MCDC the jail.
5 Q Thank you. MCDC -- what's it stand for?
6 A Multnomah County Detention Center.
7 Q Okay. And where is Multnomah County Detention
8 Center?
9 A Right down the street. So it's basically adjacent
10 to Central Precinct. The address for Central Precinct is
11 1111 Southwest 2nd Avenue. So you go right by the front
12 door of Central Precinct and then you make the next left is
13 where you go down to the Sally port.
14 Q So basically from -- we're at the courthouse
15 today, it's just across the park blocks and south one
16 block?
17 A That's correct.
18 Q Okay. Now when someone is admitted to the MCDC
19 Detention Center, do you have nurses or medical staff to
20 check someone out before they're admitted?
21 A Depends on where they're transported from. So
22 usually, yes. If they come from a hospital, if they've
23 seen by either Portland Fire Bureau or any AMR in the last
24 24 hours or like I said, they've been transported from a
25 hospital facility; usually the nurse will come and talk to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
517
1 that person.
2 Q Okay. If they're having any medical issues, will
3 they be admitted into the jail?
4 A If they're -- it depends on the medical staff. So
5 if they're having a medical issue that's significant
6 enough, no. They'll be refused from the jail and we'll
7 either have to transport that person either back to a
8 hospital or have AMR respond at the scene to come and
9 transport the person.
10 Q Now when you say a significant medical issue
11 what -- what sorts of things are you talking about?
12 A It's basically up to the intake nurses. So I've
13 had everything from someone that had like a laceration that
14 they thought needed stitches to if like they think that
15 their heart rate is too high, like respirations -- like
16 that sort of thing. So I don’t know. I -- I can't speak
17 for what their policy is for when they do accept people and
18 when they don't.
19 The only other thing that I can think of
20 specifically is if a person was involved in an auto
21 accident and their airbags were deployed. So just because
22 of that potential trauma pertaining to the person's -- like
23 face, or like chest area they'll always refuse people for
24 that instance.
25 Q And just to clarify, those two examples you gave,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
518
1 those or people that were admitted or were sent back to the
2 hospital?
3 A Sorry. So that was -- those were people that they
4 will refuse and are sent back to the hospital.
5 Q Okay.
6 A So I said, bleeding and respiration --
7 Q And that's the laceration and the --
8 A -- anything like that, yeah.
9 Q Okay. So when you brought Mr. Stull in that night
10 to the MCDC, do you remember him being checked out by a
11 nurse?
12 A Not that I recall to be honest.
13 Q Okay. But you were coming from a hospital?
14 A Absolutely, yes.
15 Q Okay. And is it your policy if someone's coming
16 from a hospital to have him checked out?
17 A It's not our policy. That would be the jail's
18 policy.
19 Q Okay. But was Mr. Stull eventually admitted to
20 the jail?
21 A He was.
22 Q Was he transported back to a hospital after you
23 arrived at the jail?
24 A Not that I'm aware of, no.
25 Q Based on your recollection, did you see or hear

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
519
1 Mr. Stull say anything about having any health issues?
2 A No.
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. STULL:
7 Q Good afternoon, Officer.
8 A Good afternoon.
9 Q Where do you get your information regarding vital
10 statistics -- height, weight, birthdate, address --
11 A The vital --
12 Q -- those types of things regarding a -- an
13 individual?
14 A So currently we have a system that's called RMS.
15 It stands for the Record Management System. So if an
16 individual has already been contacted by police they'll
17 have an entry into that system as an entity. So that
18 information is usually basically pre-filled. So if it's
19 someone that we've had contact before for any reason,
20 basically. So if they're a witness, a reporting party,
21 suspect, or just mentioned in a police report, they'll have
22 an entity that usually has that information. A lot of
23 times officers will get that information from a person's
24 Oregon Driver's License or other license if that
25 information is readily available.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
520
1 Q Thank you. Do -- do you know why your report
2 identifies me as having a date of birth of May 8th, 1964?
3 A I'll look at that. I believe, sir, that you have
4 a number of different aliases that have been given. So it
5 would either be if you've given a different date of birth
6 and/or name to an officer in the past. A lot of times what
7 we'll do is record that as an alias, because sometimes
8 people will give us incorrect information. So that's
9 listed as different dates of birth and whatnot.
10 So either that information was given to an
11 officer by the person that the contacted, or for some other
12 reason. It was incorrect, but it's listed as an alias. So
13 if in the future, if someone gives -- a lot of times people
14 that have warrants that they have a name that they are
15 commonly are referred to other than their own, an alias.
16 And sometimes they'll use their name but a different date
17 of birth. It just kind of depends on that person. So it
18 looks like we have at least three different dates of birth
19 that I believe that you've used in the past -- maybe four.
20 Q Would you be surprised --
21 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor, I think we're
22 here -- clearly about to get into some testimony asking
23 would you be surprised and then he's going to give a fact
24 that's testimony and not in the scope of the witness's
25 knowledge.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
521
2 MR. STULL: I'll rephrase the question. I'll
3 rephrase the question.
4 BY MR. STULL:
5 Q Do you have any knowledge of me using an aka?
6 A Do I have any knowledge?
7 Q Yeah.
8 A Just in our system, sir. It has three different
9 ones that are listed for you. But my experience with you
10 has just been the one time at the hospital. I haven't had
11 any experience with you other than that.
12 Q Right. And so you really have no idea of where
13 these birthdates came from?
14 A Well, like I say, it would have been when you were
15 contacted in the past by another police officer.
16 Q So the next police officer would incorporate this
17 May 8th, 1964 date that appeared in your report, right?
18 A Those aliases, they stay with that person's entity
19 as far as I'm aware. So that would have to be cleared by
20 records for some reason. So anytime that your information
21 is brought up as an entity in a police report, it will
22 always document those aliases that you've used in the past
23 whether that be a different name or a different date of
24 birth or even a different address.
25 Q And what if I never used those birthdates and the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
522
1 police did instead?
2 A I -- I don't know, sir. Like I said, that was my
3 first contact with you so I can't speak to where those
4 previous names and dates of birth came from. I -- I don't
5 honestly know.
6 Q All right. Well, I just wanted to clarify that
7 today, you're actually not testifying of having any
8 personal knowledge of me ever using those birthdates. You
9 can only testify that you -- you know those birthdates are
10 in your report?
11 A Yes, sir. That's correct.
12 Q And you, in fact, to follow up on that --
13 A Excuse me?
14 Q Do you know my birthdate?
15 A Do I know your birthdate? I know whatever
16 birthdate was listed in the police report here.
17 Q Well, your report has three.
18 A I think it actually has four.
19 Q Okay. Your report has more than one. Can you
20 tell me which one is my birthdate?
22 Relevance.
23 THE COURT: I'll allow it.
24 THE WITNESS: Right now, no. I can't honestly
25 tell you which of those four is your correct date of birth.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
523
1 I just know that those are four dates where -- that you
2 have used.
3 BY MR. STULL:
4 Q Do you have any reason to believe or suspect I
5 wouldn't provide my birthdate if I was asked?
6 A Can you -- I'm sorry. Can you ask that one more
7 time?
8 Q Do you -- let me retrace what we've done so I
9 don't have to confuse anybody --
10 A Sure. Absolutely.
11 Q -- especially me. We've already established that
12 we have more than one birthdate.
13 A Okay.
14 Q We've already established that you only know me
15 from this one encounter.
16 A That is correct, sir.
17 Q And my question is do you have any reason to
18 believe or suspect that I would not give you my personal
19 accurate birthdate had I been asked?
20 A No, sir, I don't.
21 Q And did you see my ID at that particular time?
22 A I don't recall.
23 Q In reviewing the police report, I see that my
24 weight is listed is 260 pounds?
25 A Uh-huh (affirmative).

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
524
1 Q Do you believe I weigh 260 pounds -- or did on
2 that date?
3 A I think that that was an accurate representation
4 at that time, sir.
5 Q Do you believe I weighed 260 pounds?
6 A Excuse me?
7 Q You're -- you're saying that you believe that I
8 weighed 260 pounds?
9 A So I guess to be clear, so that information it's
10 usually on the MCDC booking sheet -- the information that
11 we put in there, like I said, is prefilled from a previous
12 entity. So we don't necessarily go back and change that
13 every single time someone's arrested.
14 Q So somebody put in my height as six feet two and
15 my weight as 260 pounds when my driver's license said 200
16 pounds and six feet, would a -- looking at my driver's
17 license help get the accurate portrayal of my physical
18 description?
19 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, at this point I'd
20 object. I think we're pretty far afield now. That's --
22 BY MR. STULL:
23 Q Did you have any discussion with me at the
24 hospital? Did I make a witness -- a -- a statement at all?
25 A Not that I have documented. Sir, I don’t believe

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
525
1 that you did.
2 Q So the scenario that you used -- let me first
3 get - get there. Was your arrest based on probable cause?
4 A It as based on the probable cause of the security
5 officers at Emanuel.
6 Q Did you receive any other --
7 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Relevance.
8 MR. STULL: I didn't --
9 THE COURT: I'll allow -- go ahead and it will
10 give Mr. McMahon a chance to object after the question's
11 been asked.
12 BY MR. STULL:
13 Q Did you receive any information regarding and
14 informing your decision to effect this arrest from any
15 source except for Emanuel Hospital security staff?
16 A Except from them?
17 Q Yes.
18 A No, sir. It was based on what they told me that
19 you'd been previously trespassed from the hospital.
20 Q And --
21 A And that you were under arrest because you were
22 currently trespassing, that you had been discharged from
23 the hospital, and that you were refusing to leave.
24 Q And did you believe them?
25 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. That's

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
526
1 improper.
3 BY MR. STULL:
4 Q Did you ask me what the scenario was?
5 A I don't believe that I did.
6 Q Did you know that I was treated at the emergency
7 room?
8 MR. McMAHON: Okay. Objection. Relevance.
9 THE COURT: I'll allow the question.
10 THE WITNESS: That was my understanding, sir.
11 BY MR. STULL:
12 Q Did you know that the trespass exclusion policy at
13 Emanuel Hospital provides for emergency room visits?
14 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, may I be heard outside
15 the presence of the jury?
16 THE COURT: All right. I'm going to sustain the
17 objection.
18 MR. McMAHON: Beg pardon? Okay.
19 THE COURT: I’m sustaining the objection to that
20 if that's an objection -- if that was the reason for it.
22 THE COURT: Yeah. That this -- it -- it's beyond
23 the scope here. I sustain that objection.
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
527
1 BY MR. STULL:
2 Q Did you -- did your cover officer participate in
3 any investigation?
4 A Officer Silverman?
5 Q Yes.
6 A None other than whatever he stated. So he was
7 there primarily as a cover officer. So that's not usually
8 his role to investigate any further. But he would have to
9 testify to what he did.
10 Q Do you recall what I was wearing at the time of
11 the arrest?
12 A No, sir. I don't.
13 Q Do you remember the weather?
14 A No, sir. I don't.
15 Q Do you remember the time of day?
16 A About 3:00 in the morning based on my reference to
17 the police report.
18 MR. STULL: No further questions, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Redirect?
21 THE COURT: Any reason this witness may not be
22 excused?
23 MR. McMAHON: None, Your Honor. And with that,
24 the State would rest.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
528
1 Free to leave. Thank you.
3 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I have a matter for the
4 Court.
5 THE COURT: All right. We'll take a -- a recess
6 by about 12 minutes or so. Be escorted back to the jury
7 room. It's about 12 of 4. Expect to have you back within
8 12 -- 15 minutes.
9 (Jury exits.)
10 MR. McMAHON: Your witness is here.
11 MR. KELLEY: Jakob -- he's here?
13 THE COURT: The door closed there?
14 MR. McMAHON: Mr. -- Mr. Beutler -- Defense
15 witness Mr. Beutler is --
17 THE COURT: The door open or closed?
18 MR. McMAHON: It's -- it's --
19 Mr. Beutler, can you shut the door? We'll come
20 out and get you in a second.
21 But, Officer Lemke, you can take off. Okay.
23 Mr. Stull?
24 MR. STULL: Your Honor, at -- at this point I'd
25 move for a --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
529
1 MR. KELLEY: Judgment of acquittal.
3 Mr. McMahon?
4 MR. McMAHON: The standard is an extremely high
5 bar. It's one where all inferences must be drawn in favor
6 of the State, hear the charged crime. It's criminal
7 trespass in the second degree and whether or not Mr. Stull
8 intentionally, knowingly or recklessly entered and remained
9 on property. We have an exclusion order indicating that
10 unless he's actively receiving medical treatment he must
11 leave property. He had been discharged. He was told again
12 to leave the property by a person in charge of the property
13 with authority over it. Repeatedly told and asked to
14 leave, specifically stated, and then physically refused to
15 leave the premises, and in doing so, the State believes
16 that a reasonable jury could find that Mr. Stull committed
17 the crime of criminal trespass in the second degree.
18 THE COURT: Okay. The objection for judgment of
19 acquittal is denied and the evidence is taken in the light
20 most favorable to the State. The criteria for judgment of
21 acquittal has not been satisfied. So Motion for Judgment
22 of Acquittal is denied.
24 THE COURT: All right. So 10 minutes enough for
25 you to be back here?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
530
1 MR. KELLEY: We do have a witness we can start
2 with today, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. KELLEY: We've got one today. The other one
5 cannot be here until tomorrow.
6 THE COURT: All right. So let me just explain how
7 being on this misdemeanor docket this week works. They
8 sent me a plea at 9:45 tomorrow. A trial that would have
9 been sent my way turned into a plea. And I have to leave,
10 as I indicated around 11:15. You have one witness today
11 and then one more plus yourself tomorrow?
12 MR. STULL: Yes.
13 MR. McMAHON: So I -- my understanding and I -- we
14 have one of the witnesses here. My understanding, and
15 again, Mr. Stull called the exact same witnesses in the
16 previous trial with Judge Roberts. And though it was a
17 slightly different context, the two witnesses have
18 materially the same testimony. So I think that --
19 And Mr. Stull, correct me if I'm wrong.
20 But I think that having one of the witnesses here
21 today I think will be duplicative to go through two of the
22 witnesses. So I think that we may well be able to just --
23 and again, it's Mr. Stull's case, but I would, I guess,
24 have a quick 104 hearing if he wants to call the second
25 officer. But my understanding is they're both AMR

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
531
1 technicians. They both arrived. The individual that
2 actually wrote the report is present. The other individual
3 was sort of like cover officers for police. So the State
4 would make a 104 hearing, I think, in the interest of, you
5 know, judicial expediency and then also repetitiveness
6 calling another witness to say exactly the same thing that
7 this witness will say. I don’t think it's necessary. I
8 don't think it's proper.
9 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, if it's going to be
10 repetitive, is there something additional that that witness
11 is going to add or that would amplify it in some
12 significant way or establish greater credibility in some
13 significant way in support of your position?
14 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. The situation we have
15 is that ARM responded lights and siren. The 9-1-1 call
16 was -- included my stating that I would need to return to
17 Emanuel Hospital. As we know I was there on Friday
18 morning. And it also stated that I wouldn't be able to
19 verbalize due to the nature of my condition.
20 And although the -- these gentlemen are my
21 witnesses, these gentlemen are my witnesses to show that
22 they played doctor instead of ambulance transport. And
23 that set the -- the stage for my, in fact, being drugged 20
24 minutes after they arrived and being transported to Emanuel
25 Hospital. And the gentleman that made the decision that my

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
532
1 condition was psychiatric instead of a neurological
2 condition that -- that merited emergency room treatment is
3 quite hostile to me and my interests. And I'm not sure
4 that his coworker, who didn't make the determination
5 that -- that it was all in my head -- I'm not sure he's
6 going to see things the same -- in the same light. I do
7 know that --
8 THE COURT: Now is this -- is about occurred on
9 November 20th, Friday?
10 MR. STULL: No, it's about the 22nd.
11 THE COURT: All right. When you went back to the
12 hospital. Did you go back by ambulance on the 22nd?
13 MR. STULL: Right. Before this --
14 THE COURT: Okay. That's right.
15 MR. STULL: -- this case involves my --
16 THE COURT: And you went on the 20th. Okay.
17 MR. STULL: This -- this case involves my arriving
18 at the hospital by ambulance on Sunday night.
20 MR. STULL: And being arrested leaving the
21 hospital --
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 MR. STULL: -- where I'd been previously on Friday
24 self-reporting and self-transporting myself out.
25 THE COURT: Transporting yourself on Friday.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
533
1 MR. STULL: Right. And so -- and one of the
2 issues that we -- we didn't -- we didn't raise this morning
3 because we -- we didn't get to it frankly, was the Portland
4 Fire Bureau responded. And it's my understanding, Your
5 Honor, that -- that the policy is that when a -- a 9-1-1
6 call is made that -- in the City of Portland, that the
7 Multnomah County contracted ambulance responds and the
8 Portland Fire Bureau also responds. And the Portland
9 Police responded.
10 So I think there were at my trailer court before I
11 was drugged and put into the trailer -- put into the
12 ambulance that got me to Emanuel, I think there were
13 upwards of 10 first responders; Fire Bureau and Portland
14 Police Bureau. And I -- I didn't subpoena those 10
15 witnesses because I think these two witnesses could
16 probably describe that scene and I can flesh out what else
17 happened.
18 But I -- I'm getting to the point here where I'm
19 saying is I'm not sure these two ambulance attendants are
20 going to agree in -- in their testimony. And -- and the --
21 the report that we have from AMR includes a -- a heart
22 monitor. And I'm going to have some issues about his
23 interpretation of the heart monitor. And -- and so it's --
24 THE COURT: Are you going to be able to lay the
25 foundation from a medical perspective that would be a basis

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
534
1 for challenging his interpretation of the results of a
2 medical device?
3 MR. STULL: Well, he -- he used the term
4 "artifact" to describe what he saw as jiggling, something
5 they put sensors on. I’m just going to use the word
6 "sensors". They put devices on to measure things and --
7 and when they were erratic, he said that was because I was
8 moving. And -- and I would follow that up with
9 convulsions, because the -- you know, the -- one of the
10 consequences of my condition is I -- I do get adrenaline.
11 Adrenaline causes, you know, twitching.
12 THE COURT: And this -- this is on the way to the
13 hospital?
14 MR. STULL: Yes.
15 THE COURT: All right. And again, I -- I allowed
16 you to bring in evidence, you know, about the -- the reason
17 for your going to the hospital and the basis for your
18 admission and so forth, but only in a limited fashion.
19 MR. STULL: Surely.
20 THE COURT: Not to explore all the interpretations
21 of what might have been accurate or inaccurate. Fact is,
22 as I understand it, that you were admitted for emergency
23 purposes to Emanuel Hospital on November 22nd.
25 THE COURT: All right. And therefore you were, as

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
535
1 I understand, lawfully there for that purpose.
2 MR. STULL: Okay.
3 THE COURT: So that's not an issue in the case.
4 MR. STULL: No.
5 THE COURT: The issue in the case is what happened
6 when you were discharged after having been medically
7 treated. So that -- that is what this case is about.
8 MR. STULL: Right, Your Honor. If you'd bear with
9 me, so I can maybe give -- this -- we have a lot of dates
10 and we have a lot of times, and I don't want any confusion
11 about that. So I just want to kind of lay this out.
12 Approximately, and I'm using this loosely,
13 approximately 8 p.m. on Sunday I called 9-1-1. Within five
14 minutes, I'll just say loosely, within five minutes the
15 Fire Bureau and AMR responded. The AMR responded first,
16 and 20 minutes later I was given, I'll loosely use the
17 term, a chemical straightjacket. I was given a drug.
18 And that, since I -- as I mentioned this morning,
19 since we already had this witness testify, I know that I
20 was actually communicating at a time I thought I was
21 unconscious. I was blacked out. So I have no idea what
22 happened in that two-and-a-half hours between the time I
23 got to Emanuel Hospital about quarter to nine and -- and
24 until the time that I had the encounter with the security
25 guards about midnight. So we're basically looking at me

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
536
1 having a two-and-a-half hour window of my life that I have
2 absolutely no clue of what might have happened with the
3 exception of knowing that I was drugged. And that I was
4 drugged because of this Emanuel -- or the AMR paramedics
5 choices to, in fact, not transport me --
6 THE COURT: Okay. Well, so -- let me -- let me
7 ask you this. You were aware that you were having a
8 medical emergency and you called 9-1-1. Is that right?
9 MR. STULL: Yes.
10 THE COURT: All right. So you were conscious and
11 aware of that need.
13 THE COURT: And then a number of different
14 entities responded. You were taken to the hospital. And
15 you are stating that you were administered some drugs. You
16 don't remember what happened --
17 MR. STULL: Yeah.
18 THE COURT: -- after they came.
19 MR. STULL: Yeah.
20 THE COURT: But it was your -- you initiated
21 because of the medical emergency.
22 MR. STULL: Yeah.
23 THE COURT: And then you were treated, and then
24 you were discharged. And then what we heard thus far as to
25 the evidence presented what happened after that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
537
1 MR. STULL: Right.
2 THE COURT: So don't -- I'm not persuaded here
3 with the import is of the fact that many different entities
4 responded and that you were given some medication on the
5 way to the hospital. Because we have over here --
6 MR. STULL: Yeah.
7 THE COURT: -- we have you were aware of a medical
8 emergency.
9 MR. STULL: Right.
10 THE COURT: You called 9-1-1. And you were taken
11 to Emanuel Hospital where you were excluded from entry
12 except for medical emergency. And so because of the
13 medical emergency you were admitted to the hospital.
15 THE COURT: So that's not in contention here.
16 MR. STULL: No.
17 THE COURT: All right. So what we're focusing on
18 is what happened when you were then treated and discharged
19 and what -- what happened there; what you did or didn't do
20 that the State would argue constituted a criminal trespass.
22 THE COURT: So I don't see the relevance of -- of
23 what you are describing here and wanting to go through
24 everything that happened from 8 a.m. on.
25 MR. STULL: No, 8 p.m.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
538
1 THE COURT: Or, I mean -- excuse me, 8 p.m. on.
2 MR. STULL: No, that's fine. I'm glad --
3 THE COURT: Right. Because the State's not
4 contesting you did not have a right to go to the hospital.
5 Correct, Mr. McMahon?
6 MR. McMAHON: That's absolutely correct, Your
7 Honor. The State would, in fact, agree to stipulate that
8 Mr. Stull had reason to believe and went to the hospital
9 for emergency treatment. The question is what happened
10 after he was discharged.
11 THE COURT: Right. Right.
12 MR. STULL: So the argument here is is that the
13 issue with the ambulance, it's not germane to the facts in
14 this case.
16 MR. McMAHON: Unless Mr. Stull can articulate
17 in -- I -- I guess we're kind of having a modified 104 now.
18 Unless Mr. Stull can articulate with some sort of proffer
19 how that information makes any fact or any indication in
20 the charge at issue more or less likely to be true. I
21 think that the ambulance technician's testimony -- both of
22 them, it's irrelevant. It should be excluded.
23 THE COURT: Right. So I have not been persuaded
24 that it's relevant.
25 MR. STULL: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
539
1 THE COURT: All right. So let's just take a
2 different scenario here. You had been experiencing
3 significant health issue; you had called 9-1-1. Police
4 responded. Fire department responded. Ambulance
5 responded. They've taken you to Emanuel Hospital, and they
6 refused your entry. They refused to provide medical
7 treatment.
8 MR. STULL: Yeah.
9 THE COURT: All right. Then this route would
10 be -- it's a case where a trial with those facts it would
11 be a different scenario.
13 THE COURT: And then what happened once you --
14 once you arrived at Emanuel Hospital what their decision is
15 to whether or not to treat you and whether or not that was
16 a medical emergency and whether or not you were
17 trespassing -- that would be a very different trial.
18 What we have here is you called 9-1-1 and, among
19 others, the ambulance arrived and -- and took you to
20 Emanuel Hospital. And Emanuel Hospital accepted you,
21 despite the exclusion because it was -- it was a medical
22 emergency. So --
24 THE COURT: that -- so what happened up to that
25 point is not relevant to the -- the charge here of what

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
540
1 happened after you had been treated. That's -- that's --
2 that is -- those are the parameters as I now understand the
3 evidence of --
4 MR. STULL: Right. And -- and --
5 THE COURT: -- of what is at issue.
6 MR. STULL: And I can -- I can tell you how -- how
7 I think this is important. I mentioned already today that
8 I'm not in a position to say here it is. This is the exit
9 paper from Friday. Here it is, here's the exit paper from
10 Sunday -- we're calling it ruled over until Monday --
11 THE COURT: Right. Ends on the 23rd, right.
12 MR. STULL: Right. Right. So -- but what I was
13 diagnosed and treated for on Monday and Friday and Sunday
14 was three words "Central Pain Syndrome" which appears both
15 in the AMR report as me saying I had Central Pain Syndrome,
16 and the Portland Fire Bureau report at -- before I got into
17 the ambulance that had Central Pain Syndrome.
18 And instead -- instead of getting transported for
19 a neurological condition, Central Pain Syndrome, I was
20 instead diagnosed by the AMR ambulance attendant as having
21 a psychiatric issue, which then extended over to the
22 Portland Fire Bureau saying I had a psychiatric issue.
23 Also with them saying that I was complaining that I had a
24 life-threatening Central Pain syndrome, which, in fact,
25 when I got to Emanuel Hospital and in a complete altered

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
541
1 state, because they drugged me instead of transported me.
2 I was diagnosed at the hospital with Central Pain
3 Syndrome. And then after that horrendous experience,
4 Emanuel Hospital and the State is trying to -- to tell
5 everybody that I wanted to stay at Emanuel Hospital instead
6 of simply going home. I wanted to go home.
7 THE COURT: Well, that's the issue in the case.
8 What happened after you were --
9 MR. STULL: Right. And so it comes --
10 THE COURT: -- discharged.
11 MR. STULL: -- so it comes with -- the credibility
12 is -- well I think it's a completely different matter. If
13 somebody that had this horrific ordeal that lasted hours,
14 because I was unconscious. In my mind, I didn't know I was
15 talking to people, because, you know, I had this drug that
16 they voluntarily gave me. So anyhow, I was in handcuffs
17 actually. I volunteered to have handcuffs for transport to
18 Emanuel Hospital. And -- and it was when they put the
19 handcuffs on me that they shot me in both arms with the
20 drug that -- that the AMR guy can tell you what it is and
21 why they used it.
22 But my point is that I think it -- it
23 inappropriately and unfairly prejudices my being able to
24 say, hey, I was the guy that was sick. I went to the
25 hospital, left, went back a couple days later, and wanted

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
542
1 to leave again but couldn't. We have the security guard's
2 testimony that I mentioned nothing about my medical
3 condition. And you know this morning is --
4 THE COURT: And -- and that -- and that can all be
5 at issue. That's all --
6 MR. STULL: And my first -- and my first thing I
7 did this morning was to identify to the Court that I have a
8 neurological condition. I have my ID in my pocket that
9 says honors -- there's no person that knows me that doesn't
10 know how quick I am to identify that I have a disability
11 precisely because it's an invisible disability. And I have
12 to have my paperwork to back all that stuff up.
13 So I don't -- I'm -- I'm at a loss, Your Honor,
14 because I'm the guy with the disability trying to just
15 simply live my life and have my access to medical treatment
16 not become a big ordeal that involves the District
17 Attorney. And it will as long as my side doesn't get to
18 tell its story. And --
20 MR. STULL: -- and my side can't tell the story if
21 it's deemed as irrelevant or, you know, it certainly comes
22 into my mental state when I'm leaving the hospital by the
23 route that I've used before and -- and those security
24 guards could have facilitated me leaving by --
25 THE COURT: Okay. But you're -- you're getting

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
543
1 off-point here.
2 MR. STULL: -- the law. Right.
3 THE COURT: But let me ask you a question here.
4 MR. STULL: Yeah. I --
5 THE COURT: As -- as I stated at the very outset
6 when you were explaining some of the context here of this
7 case, if you have a -- a defense here of diminished
8 capacity because you could not form the intent to disobey
9 the exclusion order, or you didn't knowingly disobey the
10 exclusion order, then some evidence of your having received
11 some kind of sedative drug, I would allow on your way to
12 the hospital.
13 But, if you are merely wanting to challenge the
14 AMR's driver attendant employee as to their ability to make
15 a proper diagnosis or to act in a position of making a
16 diagnosis, and to deciding it was some psychiatric issue or
17 some need for sedation to be administered versus not being
18 aware, not listening, not reading results right as to what
19 was going on with you physiologically that created this
20 neurological condition, that's not relevant. The ARM did
21 not arrest you here.
22 MR. STULL: No.
23 THE COURT: They were not involved at all, nowhere
24 near the premises when you were discharged after having
25 received treatment as a result of your being appropriately

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
544
1 transported to the hospital for emergency medical treatment
2 and accepted and admitted to the hospital and administered
3 that treatment. They are not involved with what happened
4 afterwards.
5 The only way I see that having any testimony from
6 the ambulance attendants is if you contending that you were
7 not -- that it affected your mental state, and therefore
8 your ability to form intent or to understand the
9 consequences of your actions in other words acting
10 knowingly.
12 THE COURT: So I need -- I need to have an answer
13 to that.
14 MR. STULL: Right. The --
15 THE COURT: Because other words, we're not going
16 to put the AMR on trial here.
17 THE COURT: No, well, that -- that's not my
18 intent, Your Honor. My --
19 THE COURT: For their -- for their diagnosis or
20 their actions, because that's not at issue here. You were
21 admitted. You were treated. And then the issue is what
22 happened when you were discharged after having received the
23 treatment. They're not involved in that. So the only way
24 I see what they did what you're saying as a result of
25 having been diagnosed as having a psychiatric issue rather

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
545
1 than a neurological issue is if that sedation some way
2 affected your ability to follow the directive of the
3 security officer and/or the police officer subsequently to
4 leave the premises.
6 THE COURT: Otherwise it's not relevant.
7 MR. STULL: No. Your -- Your Honor, here's --
8 pretty interesting -- here's the honest truth. I -- I was
9 leaving Emanuel Hospital.
10 THE COURT: But -- but that's an issue for the
11 jury.
12 MR. STULL: Okay. And -- and my credibility has
13 to be supported with something. And it can't -- you know,
14 it doesn't help my case one bit to have the security
15 guard -- we know the police officer can't contribute
16 anything, so the only thing we have is the State's case
17 against me is a security guard saying he -- he never
18 remembers me saying I needed the bus transport. He never
19 remembers me saying I have a disability. And, you know
20 what? I'm the kind of guy that does that kind of stuff or
21 it wouldn't say in the police -- or the Fire Bureau report
22 and in the AMR report that I was complaining of having the
23 exact same thing that I was diagnosed and treated for on
24 Friday and Sunday.
25 So -- so my -- my evidence about my medical

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
546
1 condition and my disability; we -- we certainly saw no
2 evidence of them -- them doing any -- putting -- the
3 security guard couldn't even acknowledge a memory of me
4 saying that I have -- have a disability.
5 THE COURT: Right. Well, let --
6 MR. STULL: So I --
7 THE COURT: -- let me stop there for a moment.
8 MR. STULL: And I -- I remember that.
9 THE COURT: Do you -- do you have any paperwork,
10 any -- any documentation as to this medical infirmity, this
11 disability? All right?
12 MR. STULL: We -- we have years of that, Your
13 Honor.
14 THE COURT: Okay. So let me ask, Mr. McMahon.
15 Is there a -- are -- is the State willing to
16 stipulate that he has a certain medical condition that led
17 to his emergency transport to the hospital on November
18 22nd?
19 MR. McMAHON: Yes. That would -- that -- the way
20 that's phrased, absolutely.
21 THE COURT: So it will be in evidence before the
22 jury that the basis for your being transported to the
23 hospital on November 22nd was because you were suffering
24 from the neurological condition. What -- what was it
25 exactly again?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
547
1 MR. STULL: Three words, Your Honor. Central Pain
2 Syndrome.
3 THE COURT: Central Pain Syndrome, okay. And so
4 that will be entered as evidence before the jury by
5 stipulation.
6 MR. STULL: Okay. The other thing is the timeline
7 that -- that the 9-1-1 call was made approximately 8 p.m.
8 The transport took place. I arrived at the hospital 45
9 minutes after my call, loosely speaking, and I was at the
10 hospital for over two hours unconscious or incapable of --
11 you know, I -- I was drugged, right? And then when I came
12 out of the emergency room, without testifying, and I'll
13 just tell you. Nurse said, "You're discharged." And I --
14 that's how I came to -- I would say I woke up and was
15 presented with discharged papers. I cleared and I grabbed
16 my gear. I went and used the restroom and then now we know
17 everything else.
18 THE COURT: And that --
20 THE COURT: -- that's an issue for the jury.
21 That's what this case is about what you did after you were
22 discharged. You were given the papers and you realized you
23 could leave.
24 MR. STULL: And I was leaving.
25 THE COURT: Okay. And that's the fact finder's

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
548
1 challenge here is to decide is the security officer telling
2 the truth? Or, if you choose to testify, are you telling
3 the truth about what happened when you were discharged.
4 MR. STULL: Yes. And -- and the thing is, Your
5 Honor, what -- what I would get with an AMR ambulance
6 testimony was, in fact, that I am housed. I am housed at
7 the place that I was picked up at. And that would bolster
8 my claim that I wanted to leave.
9 THE COURT: What -- what do you mean you were
10 housed at the place you were picked up?
11 MR. STULL: Emanuel Hospital was -- is over
12 here --
14 MR. STULL: -- in -- in North Portland, and I live
15 in Southeast Portland.
17 MR. STULL: And that's where I was picked up by
18 the ambulance --
20 MR. STULL: -- and delivered. I'm not a homeless
21 person.
23 MR. STULL: I'm not the people that they escort
24 out to Emanuel Hospital property line every night.
25 THE COURT: And you can testify to where you were

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
549
1 when you made the 9-1-1 call. And that that was your
2 residence. And you said it was a trailer park, I think,
3 earlier --
4 MR. STULL: Yeah. Yeah.
5 THE COURT: -- right? And you can -- you can
6 state that when you testify. You can ask where you --
7 where are you living now and -- and the way you're going to
8 have to do the testimony is you ask yourself a question and
9 then you answer the question. Right?
10 MR. STULL: Yes. Yes, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: So, you know, where were you -- where
12 are you living now? X, Y, Z. Where were you living on
13 November 22nd of 2015? X, Y, Z. From, you know, where did
14 you make the -- the call to 9-1-1? From that residence at
15 X, Y, Z. And what was the reason that you made the call.
16 And -- because you were suffering from the Central Pain
17 Syndrome.
19 THE COURT: And what happened next -- you were --
20 short-circuited. You know, did -- the ambulance arrive and
21 were you taken to the hospital -- Emanuel Hospital for
22 emergency treatment for the -- the ongoing condition of
23 Central Pain Syndrome?
25 THE COURT: Yes. And were you admitted to the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
550
1 hospital? Yes. And did you receive treatment at -- at
2 Emanuel? Yes. And then what happened afterwards. And
3 then you will tell from your recollection what happened
4 afterwards from the moment that you were given the
5 discharge papers.
6 So you're going to establish in that fashion that
7 you are not a homeless person, that you have a permanent
8 residence, that you made the phone call because of the
9 symptoms that were occurring that -- from your Central Pain
10 Syndrome, that you went by ambulance to the hospital; that
11 you were admitted to the hospital. You were treated at the
12 hospital, and then you were discharged. And that's where
13 this case then starts as to who's telling the truth about
14 what happened when you were to -- to leave. The other
15 information is not relevant.
16 MR. STULL: Well, there's that issue of being --
17 about me given a chemical straightjacket that, you know,
18 for two-and-a-half hours --
19 THE COURT: But again --
20 MR. STULL: -- of me being --
21 THE COURT: And that may be something that you
22 have an issue with with AMR, but it's not part of whether
23 or not you were -- when you were discharged from Emanuel
24 Hospital if you were on your way out, and they interfered
25 with you and -- and unfairly. Or if you were refusing to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
551
1 go and, therefore, the exclusion applied.
2 MR. KELLEY: Do you want in evidence the drugs
3 that were given because they're the only witnesses who
4 could testify.
5 MR. STULL: Yeah. Your Honor, actually the fact
6 that I was drugged, AMR's the only real source of the fact
7 that I was given that -- whatever that drug is and whatever
8 they gave it to me for. And, frankly, I would -- wish it
9 never happened.
10 THE COURT: Right. But what you have told me now
11 is that you were -- you were discharged --
12 MR. STULL: Yes.
13 THE COURT: And you knew you were discharged,
14 right? And you pick up your belongings, and you remember
15 that?
16 MR. STULL: Yeah.
17 THE COURT: And then your testimony would be that
18 you were then on your way out and the security guard is --
19 testimony has been that you went deeper into the
20 hospital --
21 MR. STULL: Yeah.
22 THE COURT: -- not toward the exit, and that you
23 also made affirmative statements about not leaving and --
24 and going to sit in -- in the lobby.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
552
2 MR. McMAHON: Yeah. I -- I think we're kind of
3 getting a little convoluted, because I've -- having sat
4 through the 104 hearing with these AMR technicians
5 previously, I think we could -- I think some testimony may
6 be appropriate sort of based on what's going on here. It's
7 my recollection in the prior 104 hearing, they actually
8 testified that to their knowledge no Central Pain Syndrome
9 exists, and that they transported simply because of the
10 request, and not because of their actual belief that he was
11 undergoing that medical issue.
12 I think if we're talking about reasons for
13 transport and if he was given a drug, that limit of thing,
14 but I think a broader inquiry into reading of an EKG,
15 medical qualifications, all sort of stuff beyond the very
16 limited reasons for -- did you -- why did you do what you
17 did? Is this a real condition? Did you transport him? I
18 think that getting into a further examination of those
19 witnesses beyond sort of that limited scope of the
20 transport there's no real relevance to the charge at issue.
21 THE COURT: All right. One moment ago, I asked if
22 you were stipulating to the fact.
23 MR. McMAHON: And I -- I was waiting for Mr. Stull
24 to finish, because I think the issue was that Mr. Stull
25 requested -- I think the way I heard Your Honor say it, Mr.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
553
1 Stull requested emergency transport to the hospital for
2 treatment. That's -- that I'm fine with.
3 THE COURT: Well, I specifically asked you if you
4 were --
5 MR. McMAHON: I --
6 THE COURT: -- stipulating that he suffers from
7 Central Pain Syndrome.
8 MR. McMAHON: I apologize. I misunderstood. I
9 would not stipulate to that syndrome. I would stipulate
10 that he validly went for seeking what he thought needed to
11 be emergency treatment.
12 THE COURT: All right. Well, at least on that
13 understanding then the testimony can be elicited from the
14 ambulance driver will be that you -- that you called. They
15 responded. As to what the information that you provided
16 on -- on which they acted. Okay?
17 MR. STULL: Okay.
18 THE COURT: And so you're leading them. You're
19 asking them.
20 MR. STULL: Okay.
21 THE COURT: What information do you recall --
22 MR. STULL: Sure.
23 THE COURT: -- that I provided that --
24 MR. STULL: Sure.
25 THE COURT: -- let you to administer -- to treat

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
554
1 or administer help in a certain way. Okay? And they may
2 say we thought you were having a psychiatric breakdown. I
3 don’t know what they'll say. I'm trying to -- gathering
4 what you all have said.
5 MR. STULL: Certainly. Certainly.
6 THE COURT: And, therefore, we gave you X, Y, Z,
7 as a sedative drug. You will have your opportunity to
8 testify. And you could -- you could -- you know, you
9 obviously can say, you know, did I not -- did I not tell
10 you, you know, that I'm suffering from Central Pain
11 Syndrome. And you'll have an opportunity to testify --
12 MR. STULL: Sure.
13 THE COURT: -- that you told them that.
14 MR. STULL: Okay.
15 THE COURT: All right? And that you were at
16 the -- their -- to the extent it's necessary, it's a
17 necessary stipulation that you believed that you were
18 suffering from an emerging medical situation, and that was
19 the reason that you called and were transported to the
20 hospital.
21 You -- you're saying you're in agreement to that?
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 So maybe I'll state that first, all right, before
25 the ambulance attendant testifies. And then you can, in

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
555
1 that limited fashion, without going into all the other
2 folks that responded and all that, but just what you --
3 what you advised or what information they had upon which
4 they then acted. Okay?
5 MR. STULL: Sure.
6 THE COURT: And if they say they thought you were
7 having a psychiatric breakdown and so they sedated you,
8 okay. So be it. That's their testimony.
9 MR. STULL: Sure.
10 THE COURT: Or at least one of them.
11 MR. STULL: Yeah. That's fine.
12 THE COURT: And then you can state, you know, did
13 I not, in fact, tell you X, Y; Z? Okay. I'm going to
14 allow that. And they can say yes or no. Okay? And then
15 we -- we're -- did they -- it -- upon arrival at the
16 hospital are they aware of whether or not you were admitted
17 to the hospital for emergency medical treatment, and likely
18 they will say yes. And that really ends their role.
19 MR. STULL: Okay.
20 THE COURT: So I -- I hope that you clearly
21 understood what the limitations were as to what can be
22 asked and solicited from the ambulance drivers.
23 MR. STULL: Okay.
24 THE COURT: Okay? All right.
25 MR. McMAHON: And, thank you, and I apologize for

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
556
1 the -- the incorrect interpretation.
2 THE COURT: All right. Well, it's 4:20, so
3 let's -- do either of you need to take a quick break?
5 THE COURT: All right. Let's just bring the jury
6 in then and we'll get going.
7 Any questions you have about what you're allowed
8 to do, Mr. Stull?
9 MR. STULL: No. I -- I --
10 THE COURT: Mr. Kelley, and -- and you can take a
11 moment with your client to make sure he understands so we
12 don't have a --
13 MR. KELLEY: I will.
14 THE COURT: -- mistrial here --
16 THE COURT: -- or have to send the jury out again,
17 or anything of that nature.
18 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I'm going to release my
19 other officer from subpoena if that's okay with the Court
20 and Mr. Stull?
21 THE COURT: Yes. And just a -- well, he went out
22 the door here. Okay. I was going to talk about a little
23 bit --
24 (Discussion between Defendant's Counsel Advisor
25 and the State off the record.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
557
2 (Jury enters.)
3 MR. KELLEY: May I bring the witness in or would
4 you prefer I wait?
5 THE CLERK: No, you can bring them in.
6 MR. KELLEY: All right.
7 THE CLERK: Just have a seat until we call you.
8 THE COURT: Just one moment please.
9 All right.
11 THE COURT: Defense case?
12 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. The Defense
13 calls Jakob Beutler, please.
15 THE COURT: And before calling the witness, I'm
16 going to address the jury with a stipulation that we
17 discussed.
19 THE CLERK: You want the witness to step out then?
20 THE COURT: That's -- that's fine. Any objection
21 to the witness being in here?
22 MR. McMAHON: None, Your Honor.
23 MR. STULL: No, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: All right. The stipulation means both
25 sides agree that this can be accepted as evidence as a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
558
1 fact. That on November 22nd, 2015, Mr. Stull perceived
2 that he was suffering from a medical emergency and called
3 9-1-1. And an ambulance responded and transported him to
4 Emanuel Hospital.
5 Okay.
6 THE CLERK: Stand up there. Remain standing.
7 Raise your right hand. Under the penalty of perjury do you
8 solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give
9 in this case will be the truth, the whole truth, and
10 nothing but the truth?
11 MR. BEUTLER: Yes.
12 THE CLERK: Please have a seat and state and spell
14 MR. BEUTLER: My name is Jakob Beutler; J-a-k-o-b;
15 B-e-u-t-l-e-r.
16 THE CLERK: Okay.
17 WHEREUPON,
18 JAKOB BEUTLER,
22 BY MR. STULL:
23 Q Sir, can you tell us how you were employed on
24 November 22nd, 2015?
25 A I -- I was employed?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
559
1 THE COURT: How were you employed?
2 BY MR. STULL:
3 Q How were you employed on?
4 A I work for AMR.
5 Q Can you --
6 A An ambulance service in Multnomah County.
7 Q And did you have a title?
8 A Paramedic.
9 Q Have you had schooling to be a paramedic?
10 A Yep.
11 Q Can you tell us the extent of your training?
12 A It's an Associate's Degree, two years, extensive
13 background course, and then a year-and-a-half hands-on in
14 classroom paramedic and clinical.
15 Q And at the time, November of 2015, how long had
16 you been employed in that capacity?
17 A I've been working for the AMR since August 25th.
18 THE COURT: 2015?
20 THE COURT: Yes, okay.
21 THE WITNESS: Working for AMR, yeah.
22 BY MR. STULL:
23 Q Have you got your report?
24 A Yeah. I have -- I brought it with me.
25 Q Could you tell us the particulars about the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
560
1 dispatch time, manner, how you got the call? If you could
2 tell us that --
3 A As we get all calls, we get them over radio and
4 computer. And we received the call 2001:10. We were
5 dispatched at 2001:24. We were en route 2001:50. We
6 arrived at 2004:03. And I don't have the dispatch
7 information as it applied to the CAD, my chart. It's on
8 BOEX CAD, so we would have to find that information for me
9 to have it. But I can just tell you what I -- I wrote down
10 in my narrative.
11 Q If you could, first of all, those were what we
12 call military time, is that correct?
13 A Yeah. Yes.
14 Q Okay. So -- could you tell us when that would be
15 in --
16 A Standard time?
17 Q A.M. and p.m.? Yeah.
18 A 8:01, 8:01, 8:04 -- at the scene 8:04 p.m.
19 Q So to -- to --
20 A Evening time.
21 Q From the time that you got the -- the call to be
22 dispatched or however you became informed, it was less than
23 five minutes until you arrived at the scene, right?
24 A Yeah.
25 Q And could you tell us where the scene was?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
561
1 A 1052 Southeast Stark Street, Portland, Oregon,
2 97216.
3 Q And what kind of a place is that?
4 A From -- from my memory it's a trailer park.
5 Q Okay. And --
6 A But other than that I don’t remember that much
7 about the exact location.
8 Q And when you arrived in those three minutes, did
9 you use any lights or sirens or anything?
10 A Yeah. It was a unknown UN3, which is a Code 3
11 call for us on the way there.
12 Q And --
13 A Which is lights and sirens on the way there.
14 Q So if we can separate those two things, unknown?
15 A Yeah. So based on the call-taker's information
16 they're -- they have a certain algorithm they use to code
17 the calls. So if it was a cardiac arrest call it'd be a
18 UN1 or a cardiac arrest call. But if there's not enough
19 information that the dispatch received to give us they code
20 it as a UN, as an unknown problem. They don't -- they
21 can't put it in -- they have to go in a category because
22 either the person's not making sense or they hang up the
23 phone or something like that before they can get enough
24 information. So code is a UN3 which is an unknown problem
25 requesting Code 3, engine and -- or engine and medic.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
562
1 Q If you could -- is that status of unknown in -- in
2 your understanding, is that status of unknown a product of
3 some type of a menu which gives selected options?
4 A Yes. It's an algorithm.
5 Q And if it's not on the option list then it's --
6 it's --
7 A If it's not fitting -- yeah -- if it's not fitting
8 into a particular category then it gets placed in the
9 unknown category.
10 Q So --
11 A So if someone's having a breathing problem, they
12 just place in the breathing problem category. If they're
13 having chest pains, they put it in chest pain. If they're
14 just feeling sick and vomiting, he puts in the sick
15 category. But if it doesn't fit in any of the above -- if
16 it's a behavioral problem that it's obvious the dispatch
17 would be behavioral. But if it's unknown, doesn't know
18 where they're going with it, it just goes in the unknown.
19 Because they have a very limited amount of time to decipher
20 what's going on with the call to dispatch to us. So if
21 it's not making sense which way to put in UN -- or sorry,
22 UK.
23 Q Okay. And if a condition, a medical condition
24 is -- I guess what I'm trying to -- to excuse me. If a
25 medical condition is simply -- I don't want to say unique,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
563
1 and I don't even want to say rare, but if it's uncommon,
2 would it be classified as that UK designation in your
3 experience?
4 A I mean, I -- I don't take calls, so I don't know
5 what -- what they exact algorithm, what is in there and
6 what's not in there. So --
7 Q But --
8 A -- I would -- I wouldn’t be the person to ask that
9 question. I would have no idea.
10 Q Well, have you been on -- have you ever been
11 dispatched where it was this unknown category?
12 A Yeah. Happens quite often, yeah.
13 Q And what types of things do you find on those --
14 so we can kind of get an idea of what unknown incorporates.
15 A Like I said, like if the Dispatcher doesn't know
16 how to -- information to place into a category it gets
17 placed in the unknown category.
18 Q Yeah. I -- I understand that. But I'm saying is
19 on the ones that you did respond to --
21 Relevance.
22 MR. STULL: -- just to give us an example of what
23 unknown might mean.
24 THE COURT: Well, you can -- objection?
25 MR. McMAHON: Relevance, Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
564
1 THE COURT: I sustain the objection.
2 BY MR. STULL:
3 Q Okay. What happened when you arrived on the scene
4 November 22nd, 2015, at 8:04 p.m.?
5 A I will read it just from my narrative. "We were
6 dispatched unknown problem. Upon arrival on the scene the
7 patient was waiting on the front step. He demanded
8 transport to the hospital immediately or he was going to
9 die. When asked told -- to talk about it he became very
10 aggressive verbally saying we were going to kill him. He
11 kept repeating that he has Central Pain Syndrome and needs
12 transport back to ER. Patient said police needed to be
13 here while he was yelling at EMS." Want to keep going?
14 Q Do you know what Central Pain Syndrome is?
15 A I do not.
16 Q At all?
17 A No.
18 Q And without getting back to your narrative, do you
19 remember the weather?
20 A I -- nighttime, so it could have been chilly
21 outside; November. I'll vote for chilly. That's just a
22 guess. I don't know.
23 Q Do you remember what I was wearing?
24 A It was over a year ago, so I don't know.
25 Q That -- that's fine. Do you remember what I was

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
565
1 wearing?
2 A No.
3 Q Aside from the vocalization -- the Central Pain
4 Syndrome which you don't know anything about, any other
5 indicators of what my situation was?
6 A Well, you're yelling, so that means your airway's
7 good. You're being aggressive, which means your heart
8 rate's probably okay, because if you were having a heart
9 problem you wouldn't be yelling at us and being angry with
10 us. So as far as we could tell everything was okay at the
11 moment until we get to assess you further.
12 I -- I can only do so much with my eyes, so until
13 I could get a monitor on you, I had no idea. There's a
14 certain view from the door that we take. Is if someone's
15 yelling at you their airway's going -- they're breathing
16 well. Because if they can't -- if they can't breathe then
17 they can't yell and they can't talk to you. So --
18 Q And the -- the person that you saw standing on the
19 porch--
20 A Yeah.
21 Q -- were they yelling?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What was your first -- the first thing that
24 happened? Yelling?
25 A Yes.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
566
1 Q And what was the yelling?
2 A I'll read from my narrative again. "Demand
3 transport to the hospital immediately or he was going to
4 die. When asked to hold on he said that" -- see here,
5 sorry.
6 THE COURT: You -- make sure that you speak
7 distinctly and loudly enough so the jury can hear?
8 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Sorry.
10 THE WITNESS: "He kept repeating that he has
11 Central Pain Syndrome; needs transport back to the ER." He
12 just kept saying that over and over again.
13 BY MR. STULL:
14 Q And what was your response?
15 A We need to hold on and wait and see what's going
16 on before we just put you in the ambulance and take you to
17 the hospital.
18 Q What additional information did you need?
19 A Well, someone who is coming aggressively at us,
20 yelling at us; we're not going to put in our -- in our
21 ambulance with us in a confined space. It's a threat to
22 us. There's no police on scene. There's no fire on scene.
23 It was just my partner and I and you. And if I actually
24 recall correctly, you tried to get into our ambulance
25 without permission. We locked the doors so you could not

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
567
1 get in the ambulance.
2 Q Did you call Emanuel Hospital?
3 A Yeah. I'm required to do so when we're
4 transporting to the hospital. After we've left the scene
5 with the patient, we give a "here report" that lets Emanuel
6 Hospital know what -- what we have so far to let them know
7 if they need to get a specialty room ready, if they need to
8 have surgery ready; basic stuff like that. It's a very,
9 very quick check-in basically with the hospital over radio
10 report.
11 Q At what -- at what time did you leave the trailer
12 court transporting the patient?
13 A We transported at 20:29, which is 8:29 p.m.
14 Q Did you contact Emanuel Hospital prior to
15 transport?
16 A No.
17 Q Why not?
18 A Because I'm not required to do so.
19 Q Are you allowed to?
20 A Yeah. But I have no reason to. Why -- why would
21 I need to call the hospital?
22 Q Well, you're a dispatched ambulance with lights
23 and siren. You had a patient saying repeatedly Central
24 Pain Syndrome -- something that they could die from. You
25 didn't know what Central Pain Syndrome was.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
568
1 MR. McMAHON: And I'm sorry, just, sir, for the
2 record, if you could please answer yes or no. We are being
3 recorded. We just need the -- firm answer.
4 THE COURT: All the answers were yes.
8 BY MR. STULL:
9 Q You didn't know what Central Pain Syndrome was.
10 A Correct.
11 Q Which means, excuse me for stating this -- did you
12 know what Central Pain Syndrome wasn't?
13 A No.
14 Q So what -- what happened for 25 minutes? Excuse
15 me --
16 A We were --
17 Q Yeah. 25 minutes -- what happened for 25 minutes
18 at the trailer court?
19 A Okay. Well, the rest of the narrative, find my
20 place, sorry. Hold on. "So when we arrived we waited
21 because you were being aggressive and yelling at us. We
22 locked you out of the ambulance. We waited for fire to
23 arrive to assist us, and then subsequently police.
24 When the police arrived you got verbally
25 aggressive with the police. You kicked our monitor which

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
569
1 is a $48,000 piece of equipment, and then we had to
2 chemically sedate you and four-point security to a gurney
3 just to get you to calm down enough to be able to assess
4 you."
5 Q Was your equipment damaged?
6 A No. Doesn't have to be damaged though. It was a
7 perceived threat on my part, so I make my own judgment
8 call. I have a standing order to protect myself and my
9 partner.
10 Q What about a perceived threat to me?
11 A You were yelling at us. We don't really perceive
12 a threat to you.
13 Q What was the topic that I was yelling about?
14 A Central Pain Syndrome.
15 Q And what would happen if I didn't get transported?
16 A That you said you're going to die.
17 Q And did I get transported?
18 A Yes. You did.
19 Q How long did it take?
20 A From the time that we were at your side at 20 --
21 8:04 p.m. to transport at 2029, so 8:29 p.m.
22 Q So do you think it's unreasonable for someone with
23 the life-threatening condition to become upset when the
24 ambulance responding refuses transport?
25 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I'd object to relevance

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
570
1 at this point.
2 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. Doesn't go to
3 the ultimate issue in this case.
4 BY MR. STULL:
5 Q Well, did anybody get hurt physically by me?
6 MR. McMAHON: Again, objection, Your Honor.
7 Relevance.
9 BY MR. STULL:
10 Q What drug did you administrator -- or what drug
11 was administered?
12 A Per my chart Versed Midazolam and Geodon.
13 Q What's their effect on Central Pain Syndrome?
14 A No idea.
15 Q What are those drugs used for? One at a time,
16 please.
17 A Sedation. They're both used for just sedation.
18 Q And what was the effect?
19 A They didn't have an effect on you. You were so
20 wound up that the doses we gave you weren't high enough to
21 calm you down. You never -- Geodon for an old person and
22 Versed for an old person that's not hyped up will put them
23 to sleep. They will fall asleep.
24 Q So --
25 A Not like put them to sleep, but it will cause them

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
571
1 to relax, and they'll fall asleep.
2 Q Have you used that drug on somebody else?
3 A I've used it countless times.
4 Q And in this particular instance with me, it didn't
5 work the same as it did with those other people did it?
6 A Yeah. It didn't have -- it didn't have any
7 adverse reaction. There was no adverse condition with
8 yours.
9 Q Didn't calm me down, did it?
10 A You calmed down a little bit, but as far as you
11 falling asleep, no, it did not put you to sleep.
12 Q Now you have any experience with --
13 A Medication affects everyone differently.
14 Doesn't -- there's no -- no one's ever made the same, so --
15 Q Have you had any experience with adrenalin?
17 THE WITNESS: I have adrenalin all the time.
18 So --
19 THE COURT: Relevance has not been established, so
20 sustain the objection.
21 BY MR. STULL:
22 Q Okay. Let me put this another way. And -- and
23 the -- why did you choose to administrate a drug rather
24 than inquire to the hospital that we've established -- you
25 knew the request for transport was back to Emanuel Hospital

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
572
1 Emergency. Why didn't you contact Emanuel Hospital
2 Emergency to try to find some information of whether this
3 attitude, this excitement was a product of Central Pain
4 Syndrome?
5 A Because no matter what Emanuel Hospital would have
6 said, we can't transport you uncontrolled. Doesn't
7 matter -- if I wouldn't -- not have given you the
8 medication we wouldn't have put you in the back of the
9 ambulance. We would still be standing there in front of
10 your house. No matter what Emanuel says doesn't change the
11 fact that you were out of control.
12 Q What if I was out of --
13 A -- and a threat to my partner and I.
14 Q Excuse me, what if I was out of control because I
15 have Central Pain Syndrome and it demanded emergency
16 treatment because I knew what the consequences of --
17 A But it -- it doesn't matter, because at the end of
18 the day my partner's safety is number 1. We can't help you
19 if we're hurt, too.
20 Q But you weren't hurt.
22 Relevance. I think we're getting --
23 THE WITNESS: Because I wasn't going to let you
24 either --
25 THE COURT: All right. And -- and, Mr. --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
573
1 Yeah. I'll sustain the objection.
2 Mr. Stull, I'm going to remind you as to the
3 Court's rulings as to the parameters of the inquiry of this
4 witness and it appears to me that you have elicited the --
5 that you have asked the questions that were within those
6 parameters. And -- and so if there's something in addition
7 that you need to ask you can consult Mr. Kelley, that are
8 within the Court's rulings. And to do so otherwise, we
9 need to move on.
10 MR. STULL: Okay.
11 BY MR. STULL:
12 Q Did I present any paperwork?
13 A Yeah. You had a whole binder of stuff.
14 Q Did you review it?
15 A I did not have time to.
16 Q Why?
17 A We were monitoring you --
19 THE COURT: All right. I'll allow the answer. He
20 said because he was monitoring you. So --
21 THE WITNESS: If -- if you were super concerned
22 about your health and safety and you possibly dying, I
23 shouldn't have my paperwork -- my head in -- in a binder
24 trying to figure out what's what. From what -- what I can
25 recall it was unorganized. There's papers everywhere. I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
574
1 had to like put papers back into it before we got in the --
2 in the ambulance. So my job once you are chemically
3 sedated with the medications is to monitor you and look out
4 for my safety as well.
5 BY MR. STULL:
6 Q Is there -- what would it -- what would it have
7 taken for you to act as if Central Pain Syndrome was
8 actually a condition?
10 THE COURT: Sustained. And this witness has
11 already testified that he doesn’t -- isn't acquainted with
12 Central Pain Syndrome.
13 MR. STULL: Yes. And my -- my inquiry is -- okay,
14 I'll say another thing.
15 THE WITNESS: I'll answer the question.
16 MR. STULL: Yeah. Go.
17 THE WITNESS: Well, that -- there's --
18 MR. STULL: Ask that -- you --
19 THE COURT: No. No. I've ruled. That is not --
20 MR. STULL: -- you -- you can't.
21 THE COURT: -- relevant.
22 MR. STULL: -- She's -- the Court has ruled.
23 THE COURT: And so you cannot answer the question.
24 BY MR. STULL:
25 Q All right. How long did it take to get to Emanuel

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
575
1 Hospital?
2 MR. McMAHON: And objection, Your Honor, vague.
3 THE COURT: Be more specific.
4 MR. McMAHON: I'd just ask him to clarify.
5 THE COURT: Are you just speaking from the time
6 that you were --
7 MR. STULL: The transport. What was the transport
8 time?
9 THE COURT: -- from the time that you were in the
10 ambulance until arrival?
11 MR. STULL: Yes. Yeah. The ambulance. We know
12 that -- that the --
13 THE COURT: Right. We asked. So --
14 MR. STULL: -- left the scene at 8:29.
15 THE COURT: 8:29.
16 THE WITNESS: It arrived at Emanuel at 2045.
17 8:45.
18 BY MR. STULL:
19 Q So about 20 minutes?
20 A 16.
21 Q 16 minutes. Okay. Thank you. And when you
22 arrived at the hospital, what did you tell the -- the
23 people at the emergency department?
24 A Exactly what my narrative says in synopsis. I
25 can't tell them -- I don't know exactly what I said to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
576
1 them, but we give a hand-off report. We give what we
2 found, what we've given, what has changed since we
3 transported, and then history, allergies, date of birth,
4 name, and then that's it.
5 Q Okay. So did you tell them I kicked your monitor?
7 THE WITNESS: I didn't need to.
8 THE COURT: Sustained. Disregard the answer.
9 MR. STULL: Okay. Thank you, Your Honor.
10 BY MR. STULL:
11 Q Did you -- did you tell them that I wouldn't calm
12 down?
14 THE COURT: Sustained.
15 BY MR. STULL:
16 Q What did you tell them.
18 THE COURT: All right. What -- let you -- a lot
19 of your arguments, Mr. Stull, what is the relevance of what
20 was told at the time that you were admitted to -- for
21 emergency medical treatment?
22 MR. STULL: Well, it's my understanding from
23 reviewing the report that --
24 MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, I think it might be
25 appropriate to do this outside the presence of the jury.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
577
2 Take the jury out.
3 We will be recessing after the conclusion of this
4 witness, so we'll just take you out for a few minutes.
5 (Jury exits.)
7 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. Sorry. Thank,
8 Your Honor. It's my understanding from reading this
9 gentleman's report that -- that upon arrival at the
10 emergency department the discussion was that I refused to
11 answer questions. And the issue for me, Your Honor, is
12 that Central Pain Syndrome is the answer to all of the
13 questions. And when I -- I'm asked what's wrong with you,
14 and I say I'm having an episode of my Central Pain
15 Syndrome, and the next question is what's wrong with you,
16 I've already, as we see here in court, asked and answered.
17 You know? Asked and answered.
18 But so --
19 THE COURT: Let -- let me ask a question of the
20 witness here --
21 MR. STULL: -- somehow -- yeah, go ahead.
22 THE COURT: -- if I may.
23 MR. STULL: Go ahead.
24 THE COURT: Do you provide a written report to the
25 hospital?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
578
1 THE WITNESS: We're not required to.
2 THE COURT: And in this case you -- you --
3 THE WITNESS: We have --
4 THE COURT: -- just gave a verbal summary?
5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Fire typically has a carbon
6 copy form that is just very generic. It has the
7 demographics, the location, and whatever was done with a
8 timeline.
9 THE COURT: And -- and what information did you
10 provide to the hospital?
11 THE WITNESS: I -- I can recall it was just
12 verbal.
13 THE COURT: Yeah. What -- what was it that you
14 recall that you said?
15 THE WITNESS: Basically what my report says that I
16 gave him his name, where we found him, what happened on
17 scene, what medications we gave, what effects they had, if
18 any, and then that's all I'm required to give. I mean --
19 THE COURT: Okay. That's what's been given. All
20 right.
21 THE WITNESS: Just basically enough information to
22 continue care.
23 THE COURT: Okay. And as I understand, you'd been
24 there on Friday?
25 MR. STULL: Right. Sure.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
579
1 THE COURT: And the -- your Central Pain Syndrome
2 was known to them on Friday?
3 MR. STULL: Right.
4 THE COURT: Right. So we had --
5 MR. STULL: That was the same doctor.
6 THE COURT: -- same doctor, so they had that
7 information when you returned then on Sunday. Right?
8 MR. STULL: Right.
9 THE COURT: Of that -- that condition.
10 MR. STULL: Right. My concern, Your Honor, is --
11 is that I was, of course, treated on Friday without
12 incident and on Sunday I was flagged as being a problem.
13 And -- and my suggestion is that that was a product of this
14 witness saying that this guy's out of control. He's a
15 problem. And really, the -- the reason that I was a
16 problem because I knew that I had triggered my disability
17 when I called for the ambulance. Instead of getting the
18 ambulance transport I got somebody putting me through 25
19 minutes of hell and another 20 minutes of hell --
21 MR. STULL: -- to get to the hospital. Where I am
22 suggesting that the reason the security guards knew about
23 me is because they were talking about me, not as a person
24 who was sick with Central Pain Syndrome, which feeds back
25 adrenaline by the way. But instead a person who kicked the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
580
1 monitor -- $48,000 monitor. We heard it right here in
2 court. Did I damage it? No. So -- so anyhow, I'm trying
3 to ask him what information he gave to the -- the hospital
4 staff.
5 THE COURT: I'm going to allow you to ask the what
6 information he gave the hospital, but that is -- will be
7 the end of that inquiry --
8 MR. STULL: That's fine, Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: -- with this witness.
10 MR. McMAHON: And -- and, Your Honor, I would ask
11 that that whole last bit by Mr. Stull, that's -- I think
12 the State would object to any reference to that like some
13 conspiracy --
15 MR. STULL: -- by Mr. Beutler, to flag him as a
16 witness. I think any commentary on that, any questions on
17 that -- he's been given an inch and I think he's taking a
18 mile here.
20 MR. McMAHON: And I think that it's --
21 THE COURT: So --
22 MR. STULL: Okay, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: -- let's be very clear. Let's be very
24 clear --
25 MR. STULL: No. I got it. I'll just ask him

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
581
1 specifically what he asked --
2 THE COURT: -- to what information he gave and
3 that's it. And -- and you cannot argue evidence later in
4 closing arguments that -- where there's no foundation for
5 it. So I just want to forewarn you about that --
6 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. They'll --
7 they'll --
8 THE COURT: -- about conspiracy theories and so
9 forth.
10 MR. STULL: They'll draw their own conclusions,
11 Your Honor. They -- they've heard enough. The jury has
12 heard enough.
13 MR. McMAHON: And -- and, Your Honor, just for
14 timing issue, I have about four questions for the witness,
15 so --
16 THE COURT: Yeah. All right. Let's get the jury
17 back in. So you're going to ask that one question and then
18 you're done with this witness, correct?
20 THE COURT: And then tomorrow, what do you
21 anticipate? I'm just trying to -- want to give a game plan
22 to the jury in terms of the scheduling because of my
23 interruptions tomorrow.
24 MR. KELLEY: Right.
25 THE COURT: So who are you intending to call

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
582
1 tomorrow and estimate of time?
2 MR. KELLEY: Do you still have -- want the other
3 witness?
4 MR. STULL: I think we could probably, given the
5 parameters that I've been given, I think this will be my
6 last witness other than myself.
8 MR. STULL: I think the rest of it I'll be able
9 to --
10 THE COURT: So what I will --
11 MR. KELLEY: Want me to cancel Arik Johnson or do
12 you want me to have him come in?
13 THE COURT: -- have the jury do is come back --
14 MR. STULL: Well, we'll see --
15 MR. KELLEY: We'll talk about that later?
16 MR. STULL: Yeah.
17 THE COURT: What --
18 MR. STULL: We'll probably -- we’ll probably be
19 letting Mr. Johnson go. It depends on what this last
20 question is.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Johnson's your other witness? So
22 I do need to know because we have this -- straight in the
23 morning, so I -- I want to be able to tell the jury if
24 we're going to get the case to them after I return at 1:30
25 or are we still going to have testimony. So you'll be able

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
583
1 to tell me after this last question and answer as to
2 whether or not you have an additional witness or just
3 yourself?
4 MR. STULL: Yes.
5 THE COURT: And I won't -- not going to say
6 anything to the jury --
7 MR. STULL: Right.
8 THE COURT: -- specifically as to whether or not
9 you're going to testify, but I just need to know for
10 setting the schedule --
12 THE COURT: -- but you'll inform me, right? Okay.
13 Thank you.
14 MR. STULL: My pleasure.
16 (Jury enters.)
17 MR. McMAHON: Excuse me. Excuse me.
18 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Mr. Stull, I believe
19 you have one final question, correct?
20 MR. STULL: Yes.
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Cont'd)
22 BY MR. STULL:
23 Q Can you please tell us what you told the staff at
24 Emanuel Hospital when you arrived?
25 A I think as I said before, I can't tell you exactly

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
584
1 what I told them because I don't have a voice recorder and
2 I'm not required to put what my hand-off report is in my
3 narrative.
4 THE CLERK: Can you -- don't tap. Because I can't
5 hear the audio when you do that.
6 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
7 I'm not required to put what I've told Emanuel
8 Hospital in my narrative. So it was over a year and some
9 days ago. I can't tell you exactly what I said. But in
10 all of my hand-offs I tell the RN or physician on staff
11 what I found. So I told them that we found you at your
12 residence. You came out aggressively; kicked our monitor.
13 What -- what we did to you. I said I -- probably said I
14 gave him Geodon and Versed, had a little effect. We four-
15 point restrained you, and then I said he has Central --
16 Central Pain Syndrome and then if -- I can't remember
17 giving an -- allergies listed on file, but no -- no
18 allergies. No other medical history besides that. And
19 that's probably all I told them. Like I said, I can't tell
20 you exactly what I told them. I just don't have that
21 information. All my reports are the same usually.
22 BY MR. STULL:
23 Q As a follow up to that, did the staff know who I
24 was?
25 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Speculation

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
585
1 and relevance.
3 BY MR. STULL:
4 Q Okay. Did the attending physician know who I was?
5 MR. McMAHON: Again, objection, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Well, did -- first of all you haven't
7 laid the foundation as to how this witness would even know.
8 BY MR. STULL:
9 Q Well, if -- if the doctor or something did -- did
10 this -- did they respond to you in any way except by
11 accepting your information?
12 A No. Because as soon as I'm done with my
13 information then they take over care and they start
14 assessing the patient. So once I say that I walk out of
15 the room. I have no other contact. I have -- that's it.
16 Q Okay. Did you communicate any difficulty of me
17 providing information to you?
18 A Yeah.
19 Q Okay. Could you tell us just on that and then --
20 and then that will be the final question.
21 A That's in my narrative. It says "Patient was
22 uncooperative with questions on the events leading to
23 calling and saying that he was going to talk to the EDMD. "
24 Q Now that word uncooperative?
25 A It's exactly what it sounds like. Like not

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
586
1 providing information.
2 Q Okay. Could -- could we accurately say the
3 patient did not provide information?
5 MR. STULL: -- instead of uncooperative?
6 MR. McMAHON: It's leading. It's improper.
8 THE WITNESS: It's what I wrote.
9 THE COURT: This is the witness's testimony in
10 response to your question, not your interpreting what he
11 meant by that.
12 MR. STULL: If I could point that in another
13 direction?
14 BY MR. STULL:
15 Q Have you ever encountered people that were
16 unconscious while you were arriving?
17 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor, relevance.
19 MR. STULL: I'm just wondering if somebody's --
20 too medically incapacitated to answer a question whether
21 they're being uncooperative or they're simply not in the
22 position to answer the question, Your Honor.
23 MR. McMAHON: Objection. Your Honor. We would
24 ask that the jury be asked to disregard that.
25 THE COURT: All right. I’m -- I'm going to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
587
1 revisit the question, Mr. Stull. You can ask the witness
2 what he meant by your being uncooperative, and then we'll
3 put this issue to rest.
5 BY MR. STULL:
6 Q What did you mean by being uncooperative in
7 answering questions -- my -- I'll start again. Regarding
8 your communication to the staff at the Emanuel emergency
9 department, what did you mean when you said, "The patient
10 was uncooperative regarding answering questions"?
11 A Uncooperative as in like I asked a question. I
12 don’t get what I want in return when you're speaking. You
13 can speak to me, but when I ask you a question you're not
14 giving me what I'm asking for. I asked you what Central
15 Pain Syndrome is. You don't tell me. You tell me I'm not
16 talking to you. I'm going to talk to the ED doc that knows
17 what's going on. Then that -- I consider that
18 uncooperative.
19 It's not that you weren't answer -- don't answer a
20 question. That’s someone who's unconscious, can't answer
21 questions. They're not uncooperative. They just can't
22 answer questions. Someone that is totally alert and
23 oriented, able to tell me the day of the week, who's the
24 president, who they are, their name is someone who should
25 be able to answer questions for me. Because when I ask a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
588
1 question, and I expect an answer, and I don’t get the
2 answer that I'm looking for, I'll consider that
3 uncooperative.
5 THE COURT: Your Honor, no further questions.
7 MR. McMAHON: Briefly, Your Honor.
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. McMAHON:
10 Q So, Mr. Beutler, let's move to a situation where
11 someone's posing (indiscernible) you. But if someone asks
12 for transport to an emergency facility, do you ever deny
13 that person transport?
14 A Legally I cannot.
15 Q So -- and -- and I want to clarify. Is that
16 something that's at your discretion or something you're
17 obligated to do?
18 A Obligated to. If someone wants to go to the
19 hospital, I put them in the ambulance and go to the
20 hospital.
21 Q Okay. So even if they were to say I'm suffering
22 from listomania or cabin fever or hulk mania, I need to go
23 to the hospital, would you deny them going to the hospital?
24 A No.
25 Q They talked about what Central Pain Syndrome is.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
589
1 Have you ever heard of something called Central Pain
2 Syndrome before Mr. Stull?
3 A No.
4 Q Have you ever heard of Central Pain Syndrome after
5 Mr. Stull?
6 A No.
7 Q What sort of training have you received in terms
8 of diagnosing and learning about various medical disorders?
9 A I mean, continuing education we try to work on it,
10 but as in that particular -- I have not. None. Zero.
11 Q They --
12 A There's just too many conditions out there for me
13 to know everything about every condition.
14 Q Okay. Based on what you knew then and what you
15 know now, do you believe that Central Pain Syndrome is a
16 real condition?
17 A I could not tell you differently whether or not it
18 is or not. I'm sorry.
19 Q Okay. But it didn’t matter what you're being told
20 the condition was, all that mattered was you were being
21 requested to give emergency transport?
22 A Yeah.
23 Q All right. And once Mr. Stull had stopped being a
24 danger to you and your partner, you couldn't refuse him
25 that request?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
590
1 A That is -- that's correct.
2 Q Okay. So you had no option. You had to take Mr.
3 Stull to the hospital because he said, "I need to go to the
4 hospital"?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay. And it wasn't a discretionary decision on
7 your part?
8 A No.
9 Q Thank you.
11 THE COURT: All right. Redirect based upon the
12 cross-examination?
14 BY MR. STULL:
15 Q To clarify your not being able to refuse
16 transportation of a patient, the exception is that you do
17 refuse transportation of a patient if you feel that you're
18 threatened. Isn't that right?
19 A I cannot refuse you transportation if you call
20 9-1-1, but I can change the outcome for myself. I can
21 add -- the method I transport you to the hospital with is
22 up to me. Makes sense? If you call, you're going to go,
23 but if you're not going to be cooperative or if you're
24 aggressive, we'll make it so you are able to go with us,
25 and we'll take you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
591
1 Q And regarding your early -- earlier testimony on
2 that point, you said that the sedation didn't work.
3 MR. McMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Beyond the
4 scope.
6 MR. STULL: Well --well --
7 THE COURT: It's beyond the scope of the cross-
8 examination.
9 MR. STULL: Well, Your --
10 THE COURT: The first question was fine. That's
11 beyond the scope.
12 MR. STULL: If -- if, Your Honor, maybe I
13 should -- maybe I should restate that one.
14 BY MR. STULL:
15 Q Isn't -- I'm trying to say this in a way that's
16 going to -- so to say that you must -- you're not -- let
17 me -- let me say it this way. You must transport a patient
18 until you determine that it's unsafe to transport them
19 until, again, you determine that they can be transported in
20 the safe way. And in this case, it included first
21 handcuffs, then a chemical restraint. Is that correct?
22 A Yes.
24 THE COURT: All right. May this witness be
25 excused?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
592
1 MR. McMAHON: State will not call him again.
2 THE COURT: Mr. Stull? Mr. Stull, it's your
3 witness. May this witness be excused?
4 MR. STULL: Yes. He may be excused.
5 THE COURT: All right. You're free to leave.
6 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
8 THE COURT: All right. Members of the jury,
9 schedule tomorrow is a little bit interrupted. I have
10 another matter that precedes our resuming the trial, so I'm
11 going to ask you to be back at 9:45. We probably won't get
12 started until 10, but if you could report to the --
13 THE CLERK: (Inaudible).
14 THE COURT: All right. Be here at 9:30 and we'll
15 get started directly after that. And then I am
16 administering the oath to one of our State officials
17 tomorrow at noon. So I have to recess about 11:15, 11:20
18 to make sure I'm there timely and so forth. And then we'll
19 resume again at 1:30 tomorrow afternoon.
20 It's my anticipation with that at least hour and
21 45 minutes or so available testimony that we will finish --
22 or time we will finish the testimony. And we'll see
23 whether or not we will begin closing arguments. But I am
24 quite assured that we will get to the closing arguments and
25 have this case submitted to you tomorrow afternoon at the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
593
1 latest. Okay?
2 So, Ms. Brown? Take them out.
3 Yeah. You can leave your notebooks there. Take
4 them to the jury room -- whichever you wish. Okay. Thank
5 you for your patience today.
6 (Jury exits.)
7 THE COURT: All right. Then, so 9:30 tomorrow?
10 MR. STULL: And I will dismiss that other AMR.
11 THE COURT: Okay. So as I --
13 THE COURT: -- understand from Mr. Stull, you
14 anticipate calling yourself tomorrow to testify and you'll
15 talk to Mr. Kelley about whether I go to for -- you can't
16 just get on the stand and give a narrative.
17 MR. STULL: Narrative, yes, that --
18 THE COURT: You've got to ask your questions as
19 awkward as it is, it's the --
20 MR. STULL: Yes.
21 THE COURT: -- only way that it works when you're
22 representing yourself and calling yourself to testify, as
23 you did very well in opening statement.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
594
2 MR. KELLEY: Thank you. So I'll let him stay
3 on --
4 MR. STULL: Yeah.
5 THE COURT: Mr. McMahon, you may not know yet, but
6 are you anticipating any rebuttal witnesses?
7 MR. McMAHON: No. Almost certain.
8 THE COURT: But you -- you have the leave to do
9 so. I’m just trying again to figure out what the --
10 MR. McMAHON: I -- I understand. I appreciate it.
11 I think, again, not from Mr. Stull's testimony, but it's
12 doubtful I have any.
13 THE COURT: Okay. And there's the issue of jury
14 instructions. I have -- I believe Ms. Brown has the
15 State's instructions?
16 Is that right?
17 But I don’t have any from the Defense.
18 MR. KELLEY: None yet from us.
20 MR. KELLEY: Can I email? Would that be allowed?
21 THE COURT: You can email, but I'm not going to be
22 available.
23 MR. KELLEY: The Court accept --
24 THE COURT: -- because I have physical therapy for
25 my knee replacement --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
595
1 MR. KELLEY: It --
2 THE COURT: -- at -- at 8:00, and then I will be
3 coming directly from there to start this trial. And then
4 I'm going to have to leave and I'm going to be occupied
5 there until, you know --
6 MR. KELLEY: It will be very similar to Mr.
7 McMahon's if -- if any changes at all.
9 MR. McMAHON: Why would you want a low-key, easy
10 open day, tomorrow?
12 MR. McMAHON: I said, why would you need a low,
13 like no movement day when you're not running around doing,
14 you know --
15 THE COURT: Got -- had two of these this year. I
16 haven't missed enough work. I know that, but it's my
17 nature. So it's not as bad as --
18 MR. McMAHON: Yeah.
19 THE COURT: But if there's anything that's there
20 you know, argumentative and stuff, then we're going to need
21 some time to do that.
22 MR. KELLEY: Got it.
23 MR. McMAHON: All right. Thank you very much,
24 Your Honor.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
596
1 MR. KELLEY: Welcome back. Thank you.
2 MR. STULL: Thank, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Thank you all.
4 MR. STULL: See you tomorrow.
5 MR. STULL: We're still on the record. Do we know
6 that?
7 MR. KELLEY: Now that the Court's out I don't know
8 when they come back in. Good catch.
9 MR. McMAHON: She has to come in and shut it off
10 after.
11 MR. KELLEY: It may not be official until the
12 bailiff comes back.
13 Good to know though.
14 MR. STULL: By the way, we wanted to let you know
15 that we're still on the record although everybody else left.
16 THE CLERK: I know.
17 MR. KELLEY: Okay.
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
597
3 I, Deborah Anderson, court-approved transcriber,
9 Deborah Anderson
12 Salem, OR 97302
13 970.405.3643
14
15
16 Date: April 1, 2017
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 598 - 758
______________________________________________________________

FRANTZ, Judge of the Circuit Court, Wednesday, January 4,
APPEARANCES

1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
GENERAL INDEX
VOLUME 23 of 29
Court's Ruling on Defendant's motion ..................... 628
Testimony................................................. 634
Discussion regarding 911 audio............................ 673
Judge's Ruling on 911 audio............................... 682
Discussion regarding fire bureau report................... 684
Discussion regarding jury instructions.................... 695
Jury Instructions......................................... 700
Closing Argument by the State............................. 708
Closing Argument by the Defense........................... 716
Rebuttal Argument by the State............................ 749
Verdict................................................... 752

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
WITNESS INDEX
(None)
FOR THE DEFENSE:
Barry J. Stull .......... 634 .... 660 .... 666
EXHIBIT INDEX
Offered Received
FOR THE STATE:
(None offered.)
FOR THE DEFENSE:
(None offered.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
598
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 4, 2017
2 -O0O-
4 THE COURT: This matter is for the Court
5 (indiscernible).
6 MR. MCMAHON: Good morning, Your Honor.
7 MR. STULL: Good morning, Your Honor. Barry Joe
8 Stull here, pro se. I do have some matters for the Court
9 this morning.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. STULL: Thank you. I am working hard on
12 chewing gum. Thank you. I am prepared to do my testimony
13 as we've discussed, not in the narrative though with a
14 series of questions.
16 MR. STULL: So before I get to that, there is some
17 evidentiary matters. I have -- I don't know what you've
18 been provided. It's -- I recall seeing the Deputy District
19 Attorney with a stack of medical paperwork, and I've got
20 some here. It's inches thick. What I have is for your
21 review that I would like to submit as exhibits -- whether
22 or not you deem them appropriate or not --
24 MR. STULL: -- I want to offer them as exhibits
25 into the record. And Mr. McMahon is familiar with these

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
599
1 documents. He has a copy right now for his review for
2 discussion with the Court. I can reference my originals,
3 and I can tell you about where I got these documents if
4 that's important. But I want to -- what I want to first do
5 is start with informing you that that's my plan this
6 morning, is to offer you these and to just give you a brief
7 description of what I have.
8 THE COURT: So let me just advise you that you
9 must be in compliance with the rules of evidence. And
10 so --
12 THE COURT: -- foundations have to be laid --
13 MR. STULL: Oh, certainly. Yes.
14 THE COURT: -- and so forth.
15 MR. STULL: Yes. But in order to go through what
16 I refer to simply as the screening process or, as you said
17 to the jury, the gatekeeping process, in order for you to
18 do the gatekeeping process, with all due respect, you have
19 to know what you're gatekeeping, right? So I'll mark these
20 as exhibits, and then I'll just offer them. And then you
21 can decide --
22 THE COURT: You're going to try to introduce them
23 through your testimony? Is that --
25 THE COURT: -- what you're going to try to do?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
600
1 MR. STULL: Right. And what they are, Your Honor,
2 is they're medical records. And I have the -- this from my
3 neurologist of many years, which actually has a diagram.
4 And this is already been introduced. These pictures have
5 been introduced and I'll just --
7 MR. STULL: -- qualify as saying several pages
8 already.
9 THE COURT: And let me just ask.
10 MR. KELLEY: You need to put stickers --
11 THE COURT: Let me just ask Mr. Stull one
12 question.
13 MR. KELLEY: -- on them and identify them by
14 number.
15 THE COURT: Yeah. One question, Mr. Kelley. Have
16 you discussed rules of evidence with respect to foundation
17 and so forth with your client?
18 MR. KELLEY: Yes, we have.
19 MR. STULL: Yes.
20 THE COURT: I just want to make sure that you --
21 MR. STULL: No. I've done this before, Your Honor
22 --
23 THE COURT: Yeah. No.
24 MR. STULL: -- with all due respect.
25 THE COURT: I understand. I understand.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
601
1 MR. STULL: Well, I don't know that you know that
2 about me.
3 THE COURT: No.
4 MR. STULL: But anyhow, this one has already been
5 admitted several times. You're going to determine whether
6 it's going --
7 THE COURT: Well, what is that that you're
8 referring to?
9 MR. STULL: I'll give it to you.
10 THE COURT: Admitted several times in this case
11 already?
12 MR. STULL: No, no, no, in other cases. So I'm
13 just -- that's my confidence --
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 MR. STULL: -- to offer it. I'm not doing
16 anything --
17 THE COURT: What is it?
18 MR. STULL: -- untoward. I'll describe it when
19 you have it. And this one is the Legacy Emmanuel emergency
20 records from the dates -- the November 20, 2015 and in
21 November 22nd, and whether any parts of these might be --
22 THE COURT: November 15th or November 20th. I
23 thought you --
24 MR. STULL: Well, two dates, what -- 2015. The
25 dates of the --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
602
1 THE COURT: November 20th and November 22nd.
2 MR. STULL: The ones that the Court --
3 THE COURT: Okay. Okay.
4 MR. STULL: -- has already said the parameters
5 were --
6 THE COURT: I -- yes, yes, yes.
7 MR. STULL: -- the two visits.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 MR. STULL: I have those. And to expedite things
10 this morning, Your Honor, I'm simply going to mark those as
11 exhibits and --
13 MR. STULL: -- pass them through your clerk. And
14 then we can have that conversation with the -- we can reach
15 our agreement -- or one agreeance once we all have the same
16 paperwork.
17 THE COURT: All right. So --
18 MR. STULL: So I just wanted to take that time to
19 tell you that --
20 THE COURT: Right. And Mr. McMahon --
21 MR. STULL: -- what the plan is.
22 THE COURT: -- has been provided copies? Right.
23 MR. MCMAHON: Yes.
25 THE COURT: And all right.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
603
1 MR. STULL: And the Court whether --
2 THE COURT: Yes.
3 MR. STULL: -- whether they meet the rules of
4 evidence. And I apologize, Your Honor, for presenting
5 these at this juncture, but I think they're important to
6 the defense. And I do have --
7 Pardon me. What defense exhibit number are we --
8 THE CLERK: 105.
9 MR. STULL: 105 and 106.
10 (The documents referred to as
11 Defense Exhibit 105 and 106 were
12 marked for identification.)
13 THE COURT: Just for clarity, Mr. McMahon, you've
14 had an opportunity to review what's been marked as Defense
15 Exhibit 106 did you say?
16 THE CLERK: 105 and 106.
17 THE COURT: 105 and 106. Are you relating to the
18 admissibility of either document?
19 MR. MCMAHON: No, Your Honor.
21 MR. STULL: Over -- yeah. We're going to discuss
22 his objection.
23 MR. MCMAHON: And is 105 the one from Robert Grimm
24 and 106 --
25 MR. STULL: No. The one from Robert Grimm is 106.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
604
1 MR. MCMAHON: Got it.
2 THE CLERK: These are all one document and you
3 stapled them together.
4 MR. STULL: Well, I'm --
5 THE CLERK: You don't want to (indiscernible)
6 evidence.
7 MR. STULL: They're marked as two separate
8 exhibits.
9 THE CLERK: That's -- yes, but there's multiple
10 pages. So they have been stapled.
11 MR. STULL: Three pages for one, and the other one
12 I think is --
13 THE CLERK: Okay. I'm stapling them.
14 MR. STULL: Yeah, please do. I presented them to
15 you for that processing and --
16 THE COURT: All right. And other matters, Mr.
17 Stull?
18 MR. STULL: Oh, yes. And, Your Honor, I do have
19 the case cites for State vs. Marbet that I mentioned. And
20 to -- since I have that, I'll present you that before we do
21 the analysis of those exhibits, because I think it's
22 important for the Court be informed what the legal theory
23 of the defense would be. And Marbet is the --
24 THE COURT: I have a copy of Marbet.
25 MR. STULL: Do you have it?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
605
2 MR. STULL: Okay. So if I could just --
3 MR. MCMAHON: What's the cite on Marbet again,
4 please? I don't have it.
5 MR. STULL: Okay. It's --
6 THE COURT: 32 Or.App. 67, 1978 case.
7 MR. MCMAHON: Thank you, Your Honor.
8 MR. STULL: And there are two provisions of that,
9 pages 72. And there's a quote that extends over the page
10 break to page 73. But to not exactly quote, to paraphrase,
11 on page 72 is the -- the essence is the person giving in
12 order under Criminal Trespass -- under the Criminal
13 Trespass statute that's what this, of course, is about, the
14 person giving orders of authority may be limited by was
15 circumscribed by a statutory or constitutional provision.
16 And then following over after their example that they quote
17 there above the wheel trim restaurant, on page 72 and 73
18 right there at the bottom of the page, it continues that
19 the discrimination -- excuse me -- that the discrimination
20 statute may have been violated for both.
21 The fact that -- or the situation that a
22 discrimination statute may have been violated by the order
23 to leave is a proper inquiry in the Criminal Trespass
24 style -- because if the order must be lawful, the order
25 can't be lawful if it violates the discrimination statute.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
606
1 It can't be used as a pretext.
2 So that's --
3 THE COURT: Yes. There's the language in this.
4 And, Mr. McMahon, I want you to have an
5 opportunity to read it, but it also states that here, the
6 Defendant chose to contest the ruling by haranguing the
7 hearings officer and disrupting the hearing.
8 MR. STULL: Oh, that's -- yeah. That's -- it --
10 MR. STULL: That doesn't have anything to do with
11 my case.
12 THE COURT: -- having chosen this route, he
13 assumes the consequences of his behavior, which is the
14 trespass charge.
15 MR. STULL: Sure.
16 THE COURT: It also says that his assertion in
17 this proceeding that the ruling is invalid because it
18 violates his constitutional rights is simply a collateral
19 attack on a different ground.
20 MR. STULL: Oh, that's -- the Marbet case was not
21 a person who was being arrested for Criminal Trespass while
22 exiting a hospital between emergency rooms.
23 THE COURT: No. It's not on all --
24 MR. STULL: What -- has to do with it --
25 THE COURT: -- on all four points.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
607
1 MR. STULL: It has to do with a public hearing,
2 Your Honor. And the --
3 THE COURT: Okay.
4 MR. STULL: -- the gist of the Marbet case is
5 that, under Oregon law ORS 9.320, if I'm getting that
6 correctly, a person must be a member of the bar to practice
7 law in Oregon unless, as I am now, they're appearing pro
8 se. And the Marbet case had to do with a corporation and
9 Lloyd Marbet wanting to speak on behalf of the corporation
10 at the public hearing when he, in fact, wasn't qualified,
11 because a corporation must be represented by an attorney.
12 And Marbet wasn't an attorney. And he felt that he had the
13 right to speak on behalf of the corporation. And he felt
14 so strongly about that matter that he went to the extent
15 of, one, being arrested and, two, producing this appellate
16 record.
17 And the argument was that, without getting too far
18 field, is that oh, perhaps under Article I Section 8 of the
19 Oregon Constitution, his right to express himself, or
20 Article I Section 22 of the Oregon Constitution, his right
21 to participate in government and inform his
22 representatives, as that section date Mr. Marbet felt that
23 perhaps the bar on him speaking under those circumstances
24 at the public hearing was actually, in fact,
25 unconstitutional and a violation of his constitutional

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
608
1 rights. And therefore, the order to exclude him and his
2 subsequent arrest, trespassing him for not leaving, was, in
3 fact, unlawful.
4 And so, in that whole discussion of the lawfulness
5 of the order, which is an element of the crime of Criminal
6 Trespass, the order must be, one, legitimate. And it has
7 to be legitimate by being an order given by the person in
8 charge. And for example, I am not a person in charge in
9 this room to have Mr. Kelley to leave. I could say Mr.
10 Kelley, leave, and he has no duty to follow my order,
11 because I'm, frankly, not a person in charge. And with all
12 due respect, Your Honor, I'm not sure that, in this
13 courtroom, although you could cite somebody -- Mr. Kelley
14 I'm going to use as an example, because he's my legal
15 advisor and he's here handy. You might cite him with
16 contempt of court, but you might not be able to tell him to
17 leave the courthouse. And I'm not sure -- and I'm sure
18 that the sheriff's office that does the courthouse
19 security, Mr. -- Captain Aikens (phonetic) or somebody like
20 that, is obviously person in charge. And he could say to
21 Mr. Kelley leave, and if Mr. Kelley didn't follow that
22 order that was given with that authority, right? That
23 right?
24 But, however, if Mr. -- of Captain -- he's a
25 friend of mine. If Raymond --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
609
1 THE COURT: You're talking about Captain Adgers
2 (phonetic).
3 MR. STULL: -- Aikens, if he --
4 THE COURT: Adgers.
5 MR. STULL: -- retires, right, and he's no longer
6 a captain in the sheriff's office, he can no longer come
7 into this room and say Mr. Kelley, you have to leave and
8 have the authority. So the authority is an element of the
9 crime. We know that. There has to be a person in charge.
10 There's all kinds of case law on that. Actually, the
11 Marbet case might actually be on point on that. But that's
12 not why I gave it to you this morning, Your Honor. And
13 that's not why I'm using.
14 I'm using it because, as I mentioned, the Oregon
15 appellate record is the rest of any analysis of any of that
16 section of the law springing from the renumbers, Chapter
17 659A, at the time of this 1978 decision in the Oregon Court
18 of Appeals. They've even had that chapter of law that's a
19 reflection of expansion. But right now, we have Oregon
20 Revised Statute Chapter 659A, which includes in it, among
21 other things, the policy of the state of Oregon regarding
22 persons with disabilities and I believe it's 659A.103. But
23 in the definitions, as I mentioned, the very first thing,
24 and also the top of my head, I think is still under
25 definitions 12, is, as I mentioned, and unlawful practice

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
610
1 is defined as something that violates an administrative
2 rule, clearly, enabling statutes, of course. The
3 administrative rule by the Commission of Labor and
4 Industries to enforce and interpret 659A, among other
5 things, .142.
6 So what I'm saying is using the Marbet decision,
7 that the lawfulness of the order cannot is determined -- is
8 weighed against the weather that violates a constitutional
9 or statutory provision, as Marbet says. The person can
10 have the authority, but that authority can be -- I think
11 the word they used is limited or circumscribed by statutory
12 or constitutional provisions, which is on Marbet at page
13 72.
14 And --
15 THE COURT: Well, let me stop you for a minute,
16 Mr. Stull --
17 MR. STULL: Yes, please.
18 THE COURT: Because I need to, you know, have the
19 parameters of why this is being brought up now or the
20 purpose for which it's being brought up now. Are you
21 bringing a motion? Tell me what the purpose is for your
22 bringing a motion in -- as we proceed through this case,
23 the next matter that's going to occur here, the next
24 procedural step is you are going to call yourself to
25 testify.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
611
1 MR. STULL: Right.
2 THE COURT: And so, I'm not sure if you are -- how
3 you are asking the Court to consider using the information
4 that you're giving me here.
5 MR. STULL: Okay. Sure.
6 THE COURT: Is it going to affect your testimony
7 in this case or is it going to affect your argument as to
8 why these Exhibits 105 and 106 should be admitted? I need
9 to have the context that's --
10 MR. STULL: Yes.
11 THE COURT: Mr. McMahon needs to understand --
12 MR. STULL: Yes.
13 THE COURT: -- what you're offering here, so that
14 he has an opportunity to state his position --
16 THE COURT: -- rather than just a discourse now
17 on --
18 MR. STULL: Yeah.
19 THE COURT: -- the Marbet case and its application
20 are not to this case.
21 MR. STULL: Certainly. The legal theory, Your
22 Honor --
23 THE COURT: Yeah, but tell me how you are using
24 this not -- so we just don't have a discussion --
25 MR. STULL: No, no, no.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
612
1 THE COURT: -- about it. So what are you asking
2 the Court? Is this a motion for something or is it
3 something that you want to have incorporated in jury
4 instructions or something that you want to have ruled upon
5 before you take the stand, because it is something that
6 affects your testimony?
7 MR. STULL: Yes.
8 THE COURT: What is it --
9 MR. STULL: Let me --
10 THE COURT: -- that you're trying to achieve here?
11 MR. STULL: Let me start in --
12 THE COURT: Well, you know, we have a jury.
13 MR. STULL: I understand. I'm trying to expedite
14 this, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: Yeah.
16 MR. STULL: I'm sorry that --
17 THE COURT: No. You need to take the time you --
19 THE COURT: -- need to take.
21 THE COURT: But I need to have you focus on what
22 it is and the purpose --
23 MR. STULL: I am. And if I could --
24 THE COURT: -- so that we can --
25 MR. STULL: -- kind of set these out in an order

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
613
1 that's going to dispense with any further inquiry on that
2 matter. One is it is my intent to use the defense that the
3 order and the rest were unlawful. And therefore, that
4 element of the crime of Criminal Trespass is -- it cannot
5 be proved by the State. They have to prove that the order
6 was lawful, that the person was lawfully excluded and
7 whatnot.
8 So I don't want to beat around that anymore. I
9 Think I've -- I don't want to perseverate on that.
11 MR. STULL: I think we've established that.
13 MR. STULL: Okay. Then having the defense of
14 challenging -- I'll set this aside for a minute. If we
15 were arguing about whether the person was a person in
16 charge at Emmanuel Security, that would still be one of the
17 elements of the defense, right? Okay. That's aside. I'm
18 not challenging that, that element of that. I'm
19 challenging the lawfulness of -- under these circumstances,
20 the lawfulness of the order to leave. We don't yet have --
21 THE COURT: On November 22nd?
22 MR. STULL: On November 22nd.
23 THE COURT: Or 23rd.
24 MR. STULL: Right. And so, we don't yet have my
25 testimony that I said -- identified myself as a person with

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
614
1 a disability. I said I was, among other things, on my way
2 to the bus stop and I was heading to the lobby to check a
3 bus schedule before I did that. And all those things are
4 going to come out in my testimony. But what I -- it's only
5 fair that I inform the Court of two things.
6 And to kind of de-escalate where I'm heading with
7 my disability, which isn't healthy for -- what I -- it's my
8 duty, Your Honor, to inform the Court that once I draw into
9 play -- and we haven't screened this out, and the
10 gatekeeping process is ongoing. But once I draw into play
11 that I have a defense as a person with a disability,
12 because the arrest and the exclusion, or whatever that
13 conversation with that gentleman from Emanuel Hospital
14 security guard that led to this case, if I challenge that
15 under the disability discrimination law, saying that that's
16 unlawful, then we have to go into the extremely
17 complicated -- and trust me on this -- extremely
18 complicated and convoluted process that actually allows
19 that determination in the statute that -- commissioner's
20 rule, you know, if you violate a Commissioner of Labor and
21 Industries rule, that's an unlawful practice. Well, that's
22 one way to say that something is unlawful, if it's an
23 unlawful practice in the statute.
24 Okay. But what I have to do, coming from -- as a
25 pro se litigant, is what I have is my own, very own,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
615
1 Supreme Court case citation. And it's Stull v. Hoke, 326
2 Or 72. It's a 1997 case. And he continues to be echoed
3 through the appellate record, including the Oregon Supreme
4 Court.
5 THE COURT: Did you take that down? You're going
6 to look it up, right?
7 THE CLERK: Yes.
8 MR. STULL: Yeah. It's 326 Or. 72. I --
9 THE COURT: Is there a portion of that supreme
10 court -- is it a U.S. Supreme Court case?
11 MR. STULL: Oregon.
12 THE COURT: Oregon Supreme Court.
13 MR. STULL: Yes. It's --
14 THE COURT: U.S. -- Oregon. What was --
15 MR. STULL: 326 --
16 THE COURT: 326. All right.
17 MR. STULL: -- Or. -- starts on page 72. The cite
18 is 326 Or. 72 (1997). And at page 77, I just reviewed this
19 in the law library this very morning. The court is -- and
20 we all know this, actually. The court is responsible for
21 identifying the correct interpretation of the statute,
22 whether or not asserted by the parties. So if one side
23 says it's one thing and one side says the statute means
24 another thing, or one side doesn't say anything at all, the
25 Court still has to correctly interpret the intent of the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
616
1 legislature when reading the statute.
2 And then, on following that analysis, if the text
3 and the context are clear this reading it, it says the word
4 green, and that means whatever it means in the statute. If
5 you know what green means that statute by reading the text
6 and context, then the court doesn't have to get into any
7 further thing about the legislative intent or those kind of
8 things. In the context that's been interpreted by the
9 further appellate record and those kind of things, not
10 particularly in that case but just in general, is that the
11 context includes the appellate interpretation of that
12 particular statute.
13 In this particular instance this morning, we
14 talked about the Marbet case. And in that, it cites some
15 probably, no doubt obsolete, Chapter 659A whatever the rest
16 of the -- that citation is. So the context of the -- in
17 the way I view it myself, Your Honor, is if I'm reading the
18 Oregon Revised Statute and it has a sentence, and that
19 sentence has a statutory defines time, then that obviously
20 goes the beginning of the chapter, and that influences
21 that.
22 But then if the court -- for example, Stull v.
23 Hoke defined the word file, f-i-l-e, in regarding when a
24 case begins. And the context of the statute, or as Chapter
25 12, whatever it was when you initiate a civil case, the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
617
1 context of that statute, you're reading along and you get
2 to that part and it has the word file. And then you have
3 to kind of, in your mind or in your reality, go to Stull v.
4 Hoke and read what the Supreme Court said the word file
5 means, because that's the context of interpreting that
6 statute, that appellate record of opinion, right?
7 And so, I just wanted to say that I don't want to
8 be a Defendant in this case, but I am a Defendant in this
9 case. And I -- my philosophical and my legal theory is
10 that I have the right, as a person with a disability, to
11 challenge the lawfulness of this arrest. And once I do
12 that, unfortunately, it puts the burden on the Court to
13 correctly interpret, in this case, it would be -- without
14 getting to the subsection, it would be Oregon Revised
15 Statute 659A.142 --
16 THE COURT: Can you run that for me?
17 MR. STULL: -- which is the --
18 THE COURT: Can you run that statute for me?
19 MR. STULL: -- disability discrimination. I'll
20 use that term loosely. Disability discrimination in places
21 of public accommodation.
22 THE COURT: I think that statute is on my desk. I
23 don’t have it here, that book. It's 659. It's Chapter 11.
24 MR. STULL: 659A, yeah.
25 THE COURT: Yeah.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
618
1 MR. STULL: And so, without getting too far
2 afield, Your Honor, when the Oregon --
3 THE COURT: All right. So, again, I have to
4 understand what it is that you are -- what the focus is, if
5 this is a motion, or what the focus is of this discourse
6 that we are -- you are engaging in.
7 MR. STULL: Right.
8 THE COURT: Or monologue, at this point, that
9 you're engaging in.
11 THE COURT: And so, if it is necessary to have a
12 ruling or you're just advising the Court of when you take
13 the stand and you're testifying that certain issues are
14 going to come up. So, Mr. Stull, I need to have you focus
15 and direct what it is that you're asking the Court to do at
16 this point.
17 MR. STULL: I am. I am, Your Honor. And first of
18 all, we do have a statute, 659A.12. We have the Marbet
19 case that says that the authority may be limited by a
20 statute. So my defense is that that authority at Emanuel
21 Hospital by the security, that was limited by that
22 particular statute.
23 THE COURT: By a public accommodation statute
24 you're saying?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
619
1 THE COURT: Uh-huh, yeah.
2 MR. STULL: And so, that being said, the fact
3 finder -- in this case I believe it would the jury. I'm
4 not the legal authority. But the fact finder --
5 THE COURT: They are the only fact finder in this
6 trial.
7 MR. STULL: The fact finder, they would have to
8 determine whether the Defendant was insulated from
9 prosecution by the fact that being a person with a
10 disability, if that Emanuel Hospital security violated --
11 THE COURT: So --
12 MR. STULL: -- that -- the civil rights.
13 THE COURT: And you are one step ahead of the
14 process here, because, other than you're saying that you're
15 suffering from a disability, that you're suffering from a
16 particular infirmity, there is no testimony in the record
17 from a medical expert that supports that. And so, that's
18 why the next step is going to be whether you can establish
19 that in such a way --
21 THE COURT: -- that then you could argue that.
23 THE COURT: And in such a way that is allowed
24 under the rules of evidence certain documents --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
620
1 THE COURT: -- to be introduced. Let me hear from
2 Mr. McMahon. You've been speaking here for about 25
3 minutes.
4 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. I need to --
5 THE COURT: And I've tried to focus what it is --
6 MR. STULL: I need to let us all process this.
7 THE COURT: -- that you want the Court to -- yes.
8 No, I understand, but we do need to move on here.
9 MR. MCMAHON: So again, here, I think what's clear
10 is that Mr. Stull had conflated civil definitions and
11 remedies with criminal definitions and remedies. And sort
12 of, it was kind of encapsulated in that last statement, he
13 says I want the jury to determine if I have a disability
14 and if my disability rights were violated by the order, and
15 therefore, make a finding on the criminal matter. That's
16 completely improper, and that's not permitted in this
17 trial.
18 And I want the Court to -- I would ask that Mr.
19 Stull be prevented from going down that route, because --
20 for various reasons. First off, that's a question of law
21 and not one of fact. Secondly, that's a question of civil
22 law not one of criminal law. The civil remedies
23 encompassed in the sections that Mr. Stull is citing and
24 the issues that Mr. Stull is citing, those are some
25 remedies for failures to accommodate in terms of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
621
1 disabilities. At no point, and there is -- and to my
2 knowledge, and Mr. Stull hasn't said anything, there is
3 nothing in those statutes that creates an affirmative
4 defense to the criminal charge of Criminal Trespass 2.
5 Indeed, State v. Marbet basically lays out that what
6 happened was the defendant, in State v. Marbet talents the
7 initial ruling by the commissioner and said that that
8 ruling didn't provide the petitioner with sufficient
9 constitutional cause for constitutionally protected due
10 process rights. And then, therefore --
11 THE COURT: Say that again.
12 MR. MCMAHON: So the argument was the commissioner
13 prevented the defendant from essentially like questioning
14 witnesses at I believe it was like a water board hearing or
15 something like that.
16 THE COURT: Uh-huh, right.
17 MR. MCMAHON: And after being refused that
18 ability, the defendant then became disruptive and was
19 escorted out of the premises for Criminal Trespass 2. In
20 Marbet, the court upheld the conviction for Criminal
21 Trespass and said that, essentially, we have two separate
22 issues here. We have whether or not defendant's rights
23 were -- or constitutional due process rights and his
24 ability to, you know, reasonably confront with respect to I
25 think it was, again, the water board. That's one separate

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
622
1 issue. That's a civil issue. That has no bearing on the
2 criminal issue and the Criminal Trespass. The
3 individual -- the commissioner that denied the initial
4 request and then trespassed the defendant in Marbet had
5 every authority in every right to do that. And the civil
6 matter and sort of the nebulous civil claim that was being
7 addressed had absolutely no bearing on the criminal case.
8 And again, what Mr. Stull is doing here, he's sort
9 of smashing together Marbet into what he wants this case to
10 be, where he sees a civil remedy or is seeking a civil
11 remedy for what he believes is a violation of Bureau of
12 Labor and Industries rules, and thinks that, somehow, the
13 fact that the word unlawful exists in civil statutes in a
14 noncriminal section, therefore, it is automatically
15 incorporated and applied and makes, somehow, the order
16 given by a person in charge unlawful. Essentially, he's
17 saying is well, I'm arguing that this is -- that he didn't
18 accommodate my disability as he interprets the reasonable
19 accommodation statute. Therefore, there's no way that
20 order could ever have been lawful. Therefore, the jury
21 should get to make that determination. And they won't be
22 able to convict me, because they can't show that they
23 accommodated my disability in making that order.
24 That's conflating two issues that are totally
25 unrelated. And I think Mr. Stull doesn't seem to grasp the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
623
1 distinction. And I think that that's not something that
2 the jury can hear. That's not something that should be put
3 in front of them. And I think that that's sort of why and
4 trying to go through this long monologue to introduce all
5 of this evidence about his disability, say I have a
6 disability. They didn't make what I think is a reasonable
7 accommodation. And therefore, it can't possibly be
8 criminal, which is -- that's not how it works. And I
9 think that what we need to limit it here today is the
10 criminal facts. And Mr. Stull's argument goes well beyond
11 the scope of those small facts. And I would ask that the
12 Court limit his argument to only that which is relevant to
13 the criminal facts. And his long diatribe about what
14 exactly constitutes reasonable accommodation has absolutely
15 no bearing on that.
16 And I think that to briefly reference his
17 document, the State that none of them are admissible. I
18 believe 106, the document from Robert J. Grimm, falls
19 outside of the time frame established by the Court. It is
20 from September 28, 2006, and that the other document,
21 though it does have some medical treatment from November
22 20, 2015, is still hearsay and should be excluded. He has
23 not subpoenaed the doctor. He hasn't subpoenaed the
24 individual who wrote the report. And though it is a
25 medical record, that addresses really the authentication

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
624
1 not the fact that it remains hearsay. And it does not
2 qualify as a medical records exception, because it's not a
3 statement made for the purpose of medical treatment by the
4 individual being treated. That's what the exception is
5 designed around, the idea that when someone is seeking
6 medical treatment, their statements carry a reliable
7 indicia of believability, because you're not going to lie
8 to a doctor when you're treating. You're not going to say
9 I have a broken leg when you have a broken arm, because
10 that would interfere with proper medical treatment.
11 Here, these aren't statements made by Mr. Stull.
12 These are statements made by the doctor or attending
13 physician or whoever was filling up the chart notes and,
14 therefore, do not fall under those exceptions. So for
15 these reasons, the State would ask these be excluded and
16 that Mr. Stull's, I guess, proposed defense relating to
17 reasonable accommodations be excluded and not go to the
18 jury, because it's not a proper defense and it's not
19 relevant to the charge at issue.
20 THE COURT: All right. So I've listened to you
21 extensively, Mr. Stull, and I've listened to Mr. McMahon.
22 And I've read the Marbet case. And I agree with Mr.
23 McMahon that you have conflated a civil remedy for your
24 proposal that you have a disability, which has not been
25 established yet through the evidence, and that you were not

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
625
1 -- that disability was not accommodated.
2 There is a civil remedy for that. That does not
3 translate into an affirmative defense to the charge of
4 trespass in the second degree. So I'm not going to allow
5 that testimony or introduction of exhibits for the purpose
6 of your attempting to establish that your civil rights --
7 your constitutional rights were violated and that you were
8 not being accommodated under 690. And there is a
9 difference between the definitions provided for civil
10 actions and those provided for criminal actions. There is
11 not a bridge for violations of civil statutes that then
12 create defenses in criminal actions.
13 Now you can challenge the authority of the person
14 in charge to have arrested you. That's an issue that the
15 jury will have to determine. But the argument that you
16 were not being accommodated is outside the scope of this
17 charge of Criminal Trespass in the second degree. So I'm
18 not going to allow it. And you've made your record. And
19 you have the absolute right to appeal, as I know you're
20 very familiar with, but that is the Court's ruling here.
21 MR. STULL: Okay. And I'm going to just -- for
22 the record, because I don't believe you made the right
23 decision -- and I'm putting this into the record. And I'm
24 going to say this in a succinct way. At no point in this
25 conversation have I said that I was a peanut butter

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
626
1 sandwich or wanted to be a butter sandwich. At no point in
2 this conversation did I say that I was seeking a civil
3 remedy. And the fact that the Court wants to say that it's
4 inapplicable for me to raise the issue, which is otherwise
5 a civil remedy, well, that doesn't matter if I have a civil
6 remedy. What I'm suggesting and what I'm arguing and what
7 I will prevail on is the fact that I, as a person with a
8 disability, have a protected by the policy of the state of
9 Oregon interest. And my protected interest, in fact, is
10 what undercuts the authority by, as Marbet says,
11 identifying the correct -- excuse me -- is the person
12 giving the order may be limited or circumscribed by
13 statutory or constitutional provision. The constitutional
14 provision, well, we'll set that aside, because we really
15 want to do things on a statutory analysis first.
16 And the statutory analysis is simply this, that it
17 is an unlawful practice to not engage in the interactive
18 process which is mandatory once a person is identified as a
19 person with a disability, according to Schmidt v. Safeway,
20 the person -- if the duty is invoked and the mandatory duty
21 is invoked when the person is observed as being a person
22 with a disability, is informed by the person with the
23 disability that they have the disability, such as me saying
24 I have a neurological condition, I have a disability. And
25 the third way is if Mr. Kelley said to the Court today that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
627
1 I have a disability, that would be another way that --
2 invokes the duty of this court, so the Court could learn,
3 for example -- and I did this yesterday morning. The Court
4 could learn about its duty, under the Americans with
5 disabilities and with Oregon corollary statutes and
6 administrative rules, that once I say I'm a person with a
7 disability, that invokes the reasonable interactive
8 process. And that might be where I say can I chew gum, and
9 the Court says yes, you may. That's the interactive
10 process.
11 Now if I say can I chew gum and stick it under the
12 table, well the Court could say no, that's not a reasonable
13 modification. And even if the proposed remedy, as the
14 person with the disability presents, even if it's
15 unreasonable, the duty to engage in that interactive
16 process to determine whether any suggested or alternative
17 remedy of modification or reasonable accommodation would be
18 available -- and we have absolutely no -- the record is
19 absolutely bereft of any sort of interactive process to
20 determine if any accommodation could have been -- would
21 have been reasonable and what accommodation would have been
22 reasonable. Hey, I was leaving anyhow. I thought you were
23 mistaken. Can you walk me to the bus stop? Yes, that
24 would have been reasonable. That wasn't. Instead --
25 THE COURT: But that's --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
628
1 MR. STULL: That wasn't available. Okay.
2 THE COURT: But that --
3 MR. STULL: So the Marbet case --
4 THE COURT: There's an issue of fact. There's --
5 MR. STULL: To reiterate, the Marbet case has
6 nothing to do with this case except for the courts
7 determining that, under a Criminal Trespass charge, that
8 could be defended by challenging the lawfulness of the
9 order. And the lawfulness of the order is circumscribed by
10 the laws that prohibit disability discrimination. We
11 cannot have a policy in the state of Oregon -- excuse me.
12 I'm going to wrap this up. We cannot have a policy in the
13 state of Oregon that says persons with disabilities have
14 civil rights, and those civil rights would be protected.
15 And their remedy is to go to court, to go to prison, to get
16 out of prison, and then file a civil remedy. That is
17 absolutely fundamentally unsound, and it's a violation of a
18 federal law, which is called the Americans with
19 Disabilities Act. And that has its own name. It has its
20 own citations. And Oregon's laws are supposed to be
21 interpreted as much as possible in league with that, as
22 amended with Americans with Disabilities Act, Amendments
23 Act of 2008. And I'm going to take my break.
24 THE COURT: All right. The ruling of the Court
25 stands, Mr. Stull. And so, the Court expects you to abide

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
629
1 by that ruling. You've made your record is clearly, but
2 that is the ruling of the Court. So you will not be
3 permitted to argue that as a defense or as a violation that
4 we've created an unlawful order. You have of the factual
5 issues that you clearly will be able to argue as to whether
6 you were leaving or not. There's a -- from what you have
7 asked, although you've not yet testified, there are
8 conflicting -- there's going to be from the evidence as to
9 whether you were leaving and what direction you went and
10 between what the officer says and what you expressed
11 through various statements that you are going to testify
12 to. That's an issue for the factfinder.
13 So we're now going to proceed and bring in the
14 jury. With that --
15 MR. STULL: Okay. And --
16 THE COURT: With that understanding and ruling to
17 avoid a mistrial in this case.
18 MR. STULL: Absolutely. I have to tell you, Your
19 Honor, that my state of mind and my knowingly doing
20 something, that one I know I'm protected and I know I'm not
21 breaking the law, and I know the fellow that is going
22 through that process of arresting me is breaking the law,
23 that's my mental state. And I am not knowingly violating a
24 criminal statute that I know I am protected as a person
25 from -- as a person with a disability. I did the court --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
630
1 I did the analysis of Marbet long before I encountered the
2 security guards at Emanuel Hospital.
3 And so, it's impossible for me to present a
4 defense that -- as I've articulated. And I'm angry right
5 now, and I should be.
6 THE COURT: I know you're just --
7 MR. STULL: It's impossible for me --
8 THE COURT: I understand you're displease with the
9 ruling of the Court.
10 MR. STULL: It's impossible for me --
11 THE COURT: It's adverse to your position.
12 MR. STULL: -- to articulate a defense that --
13 THE COURT: But it is the ruling of the Court.
14 MR. STULL: It's impossible for me to articulate a
15 defense that I know I'm entitled to, based on a court
16 ruling a year later. No way. I knew that I was protected
17 under Marbet. And I feel unprotected under Marbet. And I
18 will be protected under Marbet, because we cannot use
19 criminal statutes to circumvent the civil rights
20 protections of individuals. You can't arrest people for
21 something because -- oh -- because you don't like the
22 color, because you don't like their gender. You just can't
23 arrest them. You just can't arrest them. It's not legal
24 in Oregon. Can't arrest them and put them all through the
25 process of a jailing and say afterward that oh, yeah, the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
631
1 civil remedy.
2 How am I supposed to have a civil remedy? My
3 property was destroyed as I go through these processes. I
4 come out of these processes with AKAs and extra birthdates
5 that I have no remedy of. I have no remedy of this
6 process. And so, I am completely at a loss of what I could
7 possibly say, because I don't know what testimony I'm
8 allowed to give, because my entire existence is based is a
9 person with a disability. I have this honored citizen
10 status. And it's impossible for me to be treated as the
11 person that's housed as a person with a disability. My
12 transportation is as a person with a disability. And I
13 come into court, and I have no rights as a person with a
14 disability. And that is not in league with the limitation
15 on the Oregon judicial department, which is under ORS
16 659A.142. This state cannot -- Mr. McMahon, as Multnomah
17 County, cannot aid and abet Emanuel Hospital in violating
18 my civil rights. And they are. And that's all I have to
19 say. Bring in the jury.
20 THE COURT: Bring in the jury, please.
21 (Pause)
22 MR. STULL: Your Honor, since we are still on
23 record, I do want to cite that my testimony will be per
24 Oregon Evidence Code 803(3), because it's my existing, at
25 the time of this event, mental and emotional or physical

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
632
1 condition.
2 THE COURT: I don't know the context in which you
3 are stating that. Again, if there is a diminished capacity
4 defense or assertion here.
5 MR. KELLEY: Would you like me to try and clarify,
6 Your Honor?
8 MR. KELLEY: I can tell the Court that I -- he
9 asked me to write down notes for him. And what I tried to
10 explain was that if Mr. McMahon objects to some of his
11 testimony, I would suggest that he raise that hearsay
12 exception at the time he testifies.
13 THE COURT: Wait. And so, you cited 803, what
14 section?
15 MR. KELLEY: Then existing --
16 MR. STULL: (3), 803(3), Your Honor.
17 MR. KELLEY: -- mental, physical, or emotional
18 condition would allow him to testify about his physical
19 state at the time this incident was transpiring.
20 (Pause)
21 THE COURT: This allows, the exception to the
22 hearsay rule, the following types of statements, statements
23 of an existing physical condition --
24 THE BAILIFF: All rise for the jury.
25 (Jury enters.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
633
1 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, are you ready
2 to proceed?
3 MR. STULL: Yes. Thank you.
4 THE COURT: Please call your witness.
5 MR. STULL: Defense calls Barry Joe Stull to the
6 stand.
7 THE CLERK: Under the penalty of perjury, do
8 solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
9 give in this case will be the truth, the whole truth, and
10 nothing but the truth.
11 MR. STULL: I do.
12 WHEREUPON,
13 BARRY J. STULL,
16 THE CLERK: Have a seat. Please state and spell
18 THE WITNESS: My name is Barry Joe Stull. First
19 name Barry, B-a-r-r-y. Middle name Joe, J-o-e. Last name
20 Stull, S-t-u-l-l.
21 THE CLERK: Thank you.
22 THE COURT: All right. As I may have advised the
23 jury, when someone is representing themselves and they call
24 them self to testify, then they -- that person will act as
25 the attorney asking questions, and then as the witness, the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
634
1 defendant in this case, Mr. Stull, responding to those
2 questions.
3 So you may proceed, Mr. Stull, as your --
5 BY MR. STULL:
6 Q Mr. --
7 THE COURT: -- as your pro se representative.
8 BY MR. STULL:
9 Q Mr. Stull, where do you live?
10 A 10852 Unit 5, Portland, Oregon, Stark Firs Trailer
11 Court.
12 Q How long have you lived there, Mr. Stull?
13 A I moved in September 2013.
14 Q Mr. Stull, did you seek medical treatment on
15 Friday, November 20, 2015?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q Can you tell us what prompted that course of
18 action?
19 A I was able to identify that my pulse was
20 extraordinarily high. Typically, I monitor my pulse. My
21 pulse should be, in a relaxed state, 50 beats per minute.
22 In a mildly stressful situation, perhaps 60 beats per
23 minute resting. I know that, through exercise, the -- can
24 increase my pulse.
25 Q And why is it important to seek medical attention

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
635
1 with a perceived increased heart rate?
2 A I have a neurological condition. I've been
3 diagnosed as having central pain syndrome. And based on my
4 experience, I know that once my heartrate reaches a certain
5 point, owing to the qualities of my condition that I've
6 seen through years of having it, that it reverberates to a
7 life-threatening rate. And as a consequence of the nature
8 of the condition, which my understanding is a product of an
9 injury in my spinal cord pain relay messaging system, that
10 when I'm subject to fight or flight from a shocking event,
11 the series of events results in a cascading and
12 reverberating ever increasing third of adrenaline will call
13 it in a common language. And that causes a number of
14 affects. One is I'm perceived as being aggravated.
15 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Speculation,
16 lack of personal knowledge.
17 THE COURT: When you state that are you are
18 perceived as being aggravated, that is projecting what
19 another person is believing about you and your condition.
20 So the objection is sustained.
21 THE WITNESS: Okay.
22 THE COURT: And that statement shall be
23 disregarded by the jury. It's not evidence before you.
24 BY MR. STULL:
25 Q So what resulted on November 20, 2015, with the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
636
1 visit to Emanuel Hospital Emergency Department?
2 A My experience that morning was a return to the
3 facility. I hadn't been there for --
4 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Relevance.
5 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. Your testimony
6 should be limited to the events of November 20th to
7 November 22nd, early morning of November 23rd --
8 THE WITNESS: Certainly.
9 THE COURT: -- as ruled in the motion in limine.
10 BY MR. STULL:
11 Q Mr. Stull, what's the closest emergency room to
12 where you live at Stark Firs Trailer Court?
13 A That would be Portland Adventist Hospital.
14 Q And how far away is that?
15 A Perhaps half a mile I'd answer.
16 Q And how far is it to Emanuel Hospital Emergency
17 Department?
18 A Oh, perhaps eight miles.
19 Q Well, on November 20th, what informed your
20 decision to go to Emanuel Hospital Emergency Department?
21 A I knew that Emanuel Hospital had my emergency
22 department treatment records. I knew that Emanuel Hospital
23 specialized in neuroscience, among other things. I knew
24 that, as a patient of the Legacy system, that my
25 neurologist was affiliated with Good Samaritan Hospital,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
637
1 where I had surgery in 1980. And I knew that I would be
2 treated and that the disabling nature of my condition,
3 which interferes with my ability to vocalize when I'm
4 experiencing the consequences of the I'll just say
5 triggering event, limits my ability to communicate. Do it
6 because I'm disorganized. It could be -- it could do it
7 because people don't understand what I say when I use what
8 I understand to be clearly understood and defined terms.
9 Q How did you get to Legacy Emanuel?
10 A Well, I left my trailer at Stark Fir, Unit 5, and
11 I walked over to 102nd and Burnside, and I got on the MAX
12 train. And I got off at the Rose Garden. And I got on the
13 number 4 bus. And I got off on North Williams. And I
14 walked the -- over to Vancouver and into the Emanuel
15 Hospital complex. I walked past the main entrance. I
16 walked down and in between the hospital building and the --
17 I believe I may have gone in between the main hospital and
18 the Randall Children's Hospital Building that has been
19 built recently, or certainly this century, and walked
20 through to the emergency, reported to the admissions desk.
21 Was then sent to triage and had my pulse taken. And it was
22 reported that it was 80 beats per minute.
23 The triage nurse said, "How is that a problem?"
24 And I said, for me, it can escalate to -- I might
25 have said triple, well in excess of 150 beats a minute.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
638
1 And I was then, based on whatever it was
2 determined there, perhaps a review of my record -- I
3 wouldn't know. I was then referred on to the treatment
4 room, where I was encountered by an attending physician.
5 Q And what was the course of action by the attending
6 physician?
7 A Well, first, I was interviewed regarding the
8 nature of my condition and circumstances. And I requested
9 and was afforded to stay in the treatment room with the
10 lights darkened, with all the machinery made to be as quiet
11 as possible. I was informed that the staff would --
12 MR. MCMAHON: Objection. Hearsay.
13 THE COURT: If what you are going to testify to is
14 to prove the truth of the matter asserted, then that's not
15 allowed.
16 THE WITNESS: No.
17 THE COURT: I'm going to sustain the objection.
18 If it is being offered -- and I don't know what it is that
19 you're about to say --
21 THE COURT: -- to -- for the impact on any future
22 actions you took, and it's not being offered for the truth
23 of the matter asserted, then you may testify to that
24 effect.
25 THE WITNESS: So to continue, I was basically

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
639
1 afforded a dark, quiet, undisturbed by unnecessary staff
2 encounters. I was basically left alone to my own devices.
3 BY MR. STULL:
4 Q And then what did you do, Mr. Stull?
5 A I affected a variety of coping mechanisms that I'm
6 familiar with, exercises you might call it. Basically, how
7 I would maybe describe to other people, talking myself
8 down, calming the surge of chemicals I could feel flooding
9 my system.
10 Q Then what did you do?
11 A At a certain period of time, I got up out of where
12 I was in the room, opened the door, signaled to a nurse
13 that I'd like my pulse taken. My pulse was taken. It was
14 70 beats a minute, to which the nurse said perfect, and to
15 which I responded immediately, "Not for me. Mine should be
16 50. It's elevated when it's 60."
17 And I went on to say, "The next time you take
18 someone's pulse" --
19 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor.
20 Relevance.
21 THE WITNESS: -- "simply read their pulse." It's
22 what I said. I said the next --
23 THE COURT: Just a moment. I sustain the
24 objection.
25 THE WITNESS: Pardon?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
640
1 THE COURT: The statement shall be disregarded.
2 THE WITNESS: I checked the behavior of the
3 hospital staff.
4 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection. Relevance.
5 THE WITNESS: Because --
6 THE COURT: I'll allow for latitude.
7 THE WITNESS: I checked the behavior of the
8 hospital staff, because my condition is worsened by
9 emotional stress. It's emotionally stressful for me to be
10 in the emergency department because my pulse is escalated,
11 being successfully engaged in an effort that's recognized
12 by the staff that this treatment is -- this -- my condition
13 is very difficult to manage. It's extraordinarily
14 difficult to manage. That's why they give me the darkened
15 room I would assume.
16 So I broke my reverie to have my pulse taken, I
17 can see what my progress was. And I was told that my pulse
18 was perfect. My pulse wasn't perfect. It might have been
19 perfect for some other 57-year-old man but not for me. And
20 I find it offensive. I find it emotionally challenging.
21 Who is this person that's not me, I'm thinking, that's
22 going to tell, without any inquiry whatsoever, what's a
23 perfect pulse for me. Why do I even bother to go get
24 medical treatment from qualified professionals that are
25 actually doctors when a nurse is going to say my pulse is

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
641
1 perfect without even knowing who I am?
2 So that being said, I accepted my pulse was 70,
3 and I went back into the room. And sometime -- I imagine
4 this whole thing from the encounter to me contacting the
5 attending physician through the staff -- and I left when my
6 pulse was 60. Got my discharge patient -- papers,
7 including three-word diagnosis, central pain syndrome.
8 Description, central pain syndrome. Noted the name of the
9 doctor. Noted that the instructions were explicit. Return
10 if your conditions worsens. And I went home. Went out,
11 got on the bus. Got on the MAX, went home.
12 Now these triggering events and episodes which
13 would make me wake up on a Friday morning with my pulse
14 80 can take a month to basically work out of my system.
15 And owing to some further events on Sunday, I called 911,
16 per the exit instructions. And I said I need return
17 transportation to Emanuel Hospital, expressed I was sick,
18 and I couldn't talk about it.
19 Q Mr. Stull, why couldn't you talk about it?
20 A Knowing the consequences of this condition that
21 I've learned over the years, although I'm trained as a
22 public speaker, professional musician, have to sing, have
23 to get the lyrics right -- at one point when I was a child,
24 I had a speech impediment. Had trouble saying things like
25 south seas. And I had a speech language. So I have

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
642
1 control of my voice professionally except when I try to
2 talk about my disability. There's some quality of it that
3 impedes my ability to vocalize and I have to put the same
4 effort to simply saying a sentence is it takes for me to
5 sing.
6 Q And then what happened after you called 911?
7 A I waited for the ambulance.
8 Q Did the ambulance arrive?
9 A Within minutes.
10 Q And then what did you do?
11 A Well, it's plain enough for me, having lived at
12 the Stark Firs for a couple of years, to understand when an
13 emergency vehicle is coming through. It happens. I could
14 see that they're not able to arrive. And although I was
15 dressed in shorts and T-shirt, I knew that it was really
16 important that I get myself to a place where they have the
17 emergency medical staff to deal with what I believed was a
18 very high potential of one of these reverberating events
19 that was, in fact, life-threatening.
20 Q And what did you say to the personnel?
21 A I said we got to get the hell out of here.
22 Q And why did you say that?
23 A Because I've been in the ambulance before my pulse
24 was 90 and watched it go over 175 at the emergency
25 department. So I know that I don't have time to waste.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
643
1 Q And what did the responding paramedic do or say?
2 MR. MCMAHON: Objection. Hearsay.
3 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. You can't
4 testify as to what someone else said to you.
5 BY MR. STULL:
6 Q Did you get transported?
7 A No.
8 Q Why?
9 A I had to wait for the police to come?
10 Q Did you summon the police?
11 A No.
12 Q Did the police arrive?
13 A Yes.
14 Q How many?
15 A Four.
16 MR. MCMAHON: Objection. Relevance.
17 BY MR. STULL:
18 Q Was it --
19 THE COURT: Just a moment. When there's an
20 objection, you need to stop, so I can rule on the
21 objection.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes. Thank you, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: I'll overrule the objection.
24 All right. Your answer stands.
25 BY MR. STULL:

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
644
1 Q Were there any other first responders there?
2 A Well, there were -- there's an ambulance, and
3 there were two paramedics assigned to AMR. And what I
4 understand is the policy in the city of Portland, there was
5 a fire bureau truck. And there were, I believe, four
6 uniformed responding fire bureau -- Portland fire bureau
7 employees.
8 Q So, Mr. Stull, or there are around 10 first
9 responders?
10 A Yes, there were.
11 Q Did you get transported?
12 A No, I didn't.
13 Q What did you say?
14 A Well, at first, I noted that I had on a wrist
15 bracelet from Emanuel Hospital from the previous Friday
16 morning. And the reason I had that was so that I could
17 validate that I had my medical condition.
18 Q And why would you do that, Mr. Stull?
19 A Because people likely don't believe it. Someone
20 does it for a disability. It's a product of nerve damage
21 in my spinal cord, my central nervous system.
22 Q And did you have any other materials?
23 A Yes. I had paperwork, medical diagnosis, the exit
24 paperwork from Emanuel Hospital on Friday, including with
25 its instructions.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
645
1 Q And what did you do?
2 A I pointed to the paperwork. I said this says
3 central pain syndrome. It says return if condition
4 worsens. I need to get transported. No.
5 Q What was the scene with 10 first responders?
6 A Well, there were these 10 uniformed individual, a
7 number of them wearing guns, basically, in a semicircle.
8 The ambulance door was locked as it had been by the
9 paramedic when I went out to enter the ambulance. And I
10 looked at the faces of all my neighbors that had come out
11 to witness the scene as my condition became worse and worse
12 and worse, to the point where the only thing I could do was
13 scream again and again central pain syndrome, central pain
14 syndrome, central pain syndrome, central pain syndrome.
15 Q What did the first responders do?
16 A One of them told me I needed a knuckle sandwich.
17 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay.
18 THE COURT: Again, Mr. Stull, you cannot testify
19 as to what other people said. That's hearsay. So again, I
20 will sustain the objection and instruct the jury to
21 disregard that statement made by another through the
22 testimony of Mr. Stull, and not consider it in any way in
23 your deliberations.
24 BY MR. STULL:
25 Q What types of things happened as you awaited

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
646
1 transportation?
2 A I was mocked.
3 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Again, objection, Your Honor.
4 Hearsay.
5 THE COURT: You can describe what you observed,
6 and not impute what somebody else was doing to you. You
7 can just describe your observations.
8 BY MR. STULL:
9 Q My observation was the fire bureau employees' lips
10 were moving and I was hearing him say you need a --
11 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay.
12 THE WITNESS: -- he needs a knuckle sandwich.
13 THE COURT: Sustain the objection, Mr. Stull. You
14 cannot repeat what somebody else says. If you want to
15 testify as to what you observed but not what people said,
16 you may do that.
17 BY MR. STULL:
18 Q What was the paramedic doing?
19 A Standing there.
20 Q What were the fire bureau employees doing?
22 Q What were the police employees doing?
24 Q What was their posture?
25 A Indifference.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
647
1 Q What of your neighbors?
2 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Relevance. Objection, Your
3 Honor. Relevance.
5 BY MR. STULL:
6 Q Did you take any effort to expedite transport to
7 the hospital?
8 A Yes, I did. I said these are my medical records.
9 This is my exit paperwork. These are the instructions to
10 return if the condition has worsened. Call Emanuel
11 Hospital.
12 Q Who did you say that to?
13 A Specifically, to the paramedic. But everyone
14 standing heard me, because I said it --
15 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Speculation.
16 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. You cannot
17 testify as to what you believe other people understood.
18 You can only testify as to what you observed but not impute
19 as to other people's understanding.
20 THE WITNESS: With all due respect, Your Honor.
21 BY MR. STULL:
22 Q How close were the people when you were having
23 this request -- making the request that Emanuel Hospital be
24 contacted?
25 A They were facing me, and they were about five feet

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
648
1 away in a semicircle.
2 Q How long was it from the time you exited your
3 front porch?
4 A Don't really know. I was sick. I was the one
5 that summoned the ambulance, because I knew how sick I was.
6 It was a long time. It was excruciating. It was, in fact,
7 torture. As my conditions worsen, my emotional stress, I
8 have first responders standing there refusing any
9 reasonable -- as far as my experience was, any reasonable
10 response to the circumstances. And then the paramedic --
11 and this was many, many minutes. In fact, I would say the
12 last 10 minutes before I was transported. The paramedic
13 came over with some type of a monitor. I kicked it. I did
14 that for a couple of reasons.
15 Q What were the reasons?
16 A Primarily, I wasn't going to allow myself to die.
17 I wasn't going to allow myself to die hooked up to a
18 monitor in a driveway or trailer court. That was not going
19 to be my life's end. And I knew that by kicking that
20 monitor away from me -- and I did it in a harmless
21 fashion -- I was communicating in a way these people
22 actually understood.
23 Q And then what happened?
24 A Police officer said he would transport me to
25 Emanuel Hospital if I allowed him to put handcuffs on me.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
649
1 Q And did you?
2 A Yes, I did.
4 A Well, I turned around and had the handcuffs put
5 on. The handcuffs clicked, first one and then the other.
6 Each of my upper right T-shirt sleeves were raised. And I
7 was injected with what I understand to be a pneumatic
8 device, which shot a chemical into me.
9 Q And what was your response?
10 A Not knowing what it was, I again reasserted that
11 the event that I was experiencing could kill me.
13 A Well, the effect of the drug came on. I can
14 remember being placed on a gurney, being placed in the
15 ambulance, transported.
16 Q Then what?
17 A I awoke in a treatment room.
18 Q How did you know it was a treatment room?
19 A I'd just been in one two days earlier. It was the
20 one right next door to it. I recognized it, because I'd
21 been in one and I'd come out and had my pulse taken. I
22 went back in, and I just recognized it. Just one -- simply
23 one treatment room there. And it'll happen. A nurse came
24 in. She presented me with exit paperwork, said I was
25 discharged and free to go.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
650
1 Q And then what did you do, Mr. Stull?
2 A I looked at the paperwork, which was, to me,
3 typical Emanuel Hospital emergency department discharge
4 papers.
5 Q And what did those say?
6 A They had my name. They had the time in. They had
7 the time out. They had the -- what I was treated for.
8 Depending on the circumstances, they had some particular
9 warnings, and depending on what I'd been for. Stitches
10 would be a different exit paperwork than a head injury or
11 something. In this case, it had the three-word description
12 central pain syndrome, three word diagnosis.
14 Hearsay.
16 THE WITNESS: And I observed that it was the exact
17 same treating physician.
19 Hearsay.
20 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, when it's the
21 same objection, you cannot then testify as to what you read
22 on the piece of paper. That's hearsay.
23 The jury is to disregard any testimony as to what
24 was contained on the pieces of paper that he was provided
25 at the time that he elected to testify as to the effect

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
651
1 what you read had on your next action but not --
2 THE WITNESS: I'll certainly do that.
3 THE COURT: -- not on the actual words or to
4 establish the truth of those words.
5 THE WITNESS: No, Your Honor. That's fine. Thank
6 you.
7 BY MR. STULL:
8 Q Mr. Stull, what did you do when presented with the
9 exit paperwork?
10 A Well, I took comfort in knowing that even though
11 I'd woken up after some considerable hours of time, that
12 I'd been seen by the same treating doctor.
13 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. We're
14 clearly going into the contents of it. He's trying to
15 shoehorn it in with his convoluted explanation. I think
16 it's improper.
18 THE WITNESS: I felt --
19 THE COURT: You can proceed with what you did
20 after having received the paperwork.
21 THE WITNESS: All right.
22 THE COURT: Not going into the contents of the
23 paperwork.
24 THE WITNESS: I felt validated by that piece of
25 paperwork.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
652
1 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Again, objection, Your Honor.
2 It goes to the contents of the paperwork.
3 THE COURT: You can testify as to what your
4 actions were as a result of getting the piece of paper.
5 THE WITNESS: I relaxed when I received that piece
6 of paper.
7 BY MR. STULL:
8 Q Then what did you do?
9 A It was some number of hours of me being there.
10 And I made my way out of the emergency room department. I
11 went over into the restroom by the waiting room. I went
12 in, used the restroom, urinated, washed my hands.
13 Q And then what?
14 A I left.
15 Q Where did you go?
16 A Well, I headed toward the entry to the hospital.
17 Q And why is that?
18 A Because it was the exit.
19 Q And where is that located?
20 A Well, among other things, it's as close as you can
21 get to the bus stop.
22 Q And what informed your choice?
23 A I was planning on taking the bus. Well, since it
24 was a Sunday night, about midnight, and I'm familiar with
25 trying that, I was going to stop in the lobby, check the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
653
1 number 4 schedule, see when the number 4 was running next.
2 Sometimes on Sunday night, the buses only run once an hour.
3 I was dressed in gym shorts and a T-shirt. It was expected
4 to get well into the 30s that evening. It was already
5 midnight.
6 Q And what would have been the benefit of checking
7 the bus schedule?
8 A Well, the buses that run on North Vancouver Avenue
9 heading down to the Rose Garden Transit Complex, which is
10 about perhaps a half-mile away, if that bus was coming, I
11 would have caught it. And if it wasn't, I would have
12 walked on down or jogged on down to the Rose Garden and
13 caught a MAX.
14 Q And then what?
15 A Well, I would have been warm on the MAX. And I
16 could have got off at 102 Avenue, which is maybe a
17 half-mile away from my home. And I would have jogged ,
18 effective getting myself home.
19 Q And why would you have jogged?
20 A I was dressed in -- I had on a T-shirt. I had on
21 gym shorts. I had on sneakers. I had on a pair of socks.
22 I didn't have a coat. I didn't have a hat. And it was in
23 the 30s.
24 Q And then what happened on your way to the lobby,
25 where you testified you expected to check the bus schedule?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
654
1 A I was approached from behind. My attention was
2 drawn by the voice of a person saying, "Here's a trespass
3 warning."
4 Q What did you do?
5 A I turned around.
7 A I was informed that I had a trespass warning. I
8 said, "I know. I just got out of the emergency room."
9 He said, "Well, you have to leave the hospital."
10 And I said, "I am." I said, "I'm going to the
11 lobby to check the bus schedule and catch the bus."
12 Then I was told that I wasn't allowed at the
13 hospital. And I said, "I certainly am. I'm a person with
14 a disability. I just got out of the emergency room. I
15 have a condition that's worsened by emotional stress.
16 Leave me alone."
17 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. I'd
18 ask that the last word be stricken pursuant to the motion
19 in limine.
20 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, as the Court ruled after
21 extensive argument prior to the jury convening in our
22 courtroom as to what you could testify to and what you
23 could not, and you have gone beyond the bounds of that
24 ruling.
25 So that last statement by Mr. Stull shall be

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
655
1 stricken and not considered by you in your deliberations.
2 BY MR. STULL:
4 A My path was blocked.
5 Q How did that happen?
6 A Security guard stepped in front of me.
7 Q And where did that happen?
8 A Happened in the hallway.
9 Q Were there any patient rooms in that area?
10 A No. Essentially, basically just a corridor. And
11 it was midnight on a Sunday, and there was nothing really
12 open.
13 Q Why did you choose that route?
14 A The route that I'd taken was informed by my
15 knowledge of many years of association with Emanuel
16 Hospital complex.
17 Q Was that as a patient?
18 A Well, among other things, I had been
19 (indiscernible). I was on the Elliott Neighborhood Board
20 of Directors Neighborhood Association, where we met at the
21 Emanuel Hospital complex.
22 Q And why did you take that particular hallway?
23 A Well, I knew it would get me through the hospital
24 to the lobby and out the door, closer to the bus. Or if I
25 chose not to take the bus, because the schedule said

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
656
1 otherwise, it would still put me on North Vancouver Avenue,
2 which I would have taken down until -- as it turns into
3 North Wheeler Avenue to the Northeast Wheeler Avenue. It's
4 kind of confusing there, at the Rose Garden Arena, or a
5 certain path to Rose Garden Arena down to the Rose Garden
6 Transit Complex.
7 Q And why didn't you do that?
8 A Well, first, I had a security guard in front of
9 me. And when I turned around, there was a security guard
10 behind me. And they told me to leave through the fire
11 door. And when I was directed to the fire door, I couldn't
12 really understand why that would even come up as an option,
13 because it was actually a fire door. It was for
14 emergencies only. And it would have done nothing to shed
15 me out of being on the Legacy campus. The only thing it
16 would have done was taken me from the shelter of the
17 building to the darkness of the courtyard.
18 Q So what's wrong with that? You were planning on
19 walking down to the bus or the transit somehow. You're
20 going to be outside in a minute or two anyhow.
21 A I hadn't planned on being with two security
22 guards. I have a personal (indiscernible) to security
23 guards. They want to push me into corners, in shadowed
24 darkened places, where there's no public to observe,
25 because I was, in fact, mugged by security guards.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
657
2 Relevance.
3 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. Disregard the
4 last statement. Beyond the scope.
5 THE WITNESS: I was not going to allow myself to
6 be mugged by security guards at Emanuel Hospital.
8 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you've
9 expressed your state of mind as to why you took the actions
10 you did. I'll allow that to stand, but that conclude that
11 train of thought, expression as to why you did what you
12 did.
13 BY MR. STULL:
14 Q So then what happened?
15 A Well, I refused to take the fire exit and I
16 continued the way I was going. And I had hands put on me.
17 And I said, "Get your hands off me." As I would -- the
18 elevator, somebody started groping me. And in short order,
19 I knew that I was being arrested. And I know that passive
20 resistance is not resisting arrest.
21 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. I
22 would ask that that be stricken.
23 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, please refrain from
24 volunteering information that is not relevant. Your
25 understanding of other aspects of the law are not relevant

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
658
1 here. You are to testify in response to your own questions
2 about what you did.
3 BY MR. STULL:
4 Q What did you do?
5 A I made sure I was safe.
6 Q And how did you do that?
7 A I sat down.
8 Q And why did you do that?
9 A Because then I couldn't be accused of trying to --
11 Again, we're going into a legal conclusion.
13 BY MR. STULL:
14 Q And what did you?
15 A I waited for the police.
16 Q And why did you do that?
17 A So I could explain to them that I was simply
18 leaving the hospital when the security guards decided to
19 arrest me.
21 A Two officers arrived, Portland police officers.
22 Q And then what?
23 A I told them, "I need your business cards."
24 Q Why?
25 A One is I might need to follow up for any number of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
659
1 reasons on the encounter. And two is I know that it's
2 their policy, the city of Portland, after 17 years of hard
3 work, that the Portland police have to present a business
4 card. So I requested what I knew I had coming.
5 Q And then what'd you do?
6 A I told the officers I was capable of getting up
7 from the seated position with handcuffs behind my back by
8 myself, without assistance. And I requested that they not
9 touch me.
10 Q Why did you request that they not touch you?
11 A I was wearing handcuffs.
12 Q And what does that have to do with anything?
13 A Well, if somebody pulls on my elbow when I'm
14 wearing handcuffs, that can hurt. And handcuffs have the
15 potential of causing me damage. And I'm a musician, and
16 it's important that I have my good old access with the
17 nerves that operate my ability to play the instruments in
18 my hands.
19 Q And what happened?
20 A I was transported and left the hospital.
21 Q Have you been back to Emanuel Hospital Emergency
22 Department since?
24 MR. STULL: I'll rephrase the question.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
660
1 THE WITNESS: And that was the last time I went to
2 Emanuel Hospital.
4 MR. MCMAHON: Your Honor, I know you're under a
5 time crunch. Mine is going to be extremely quick.
6 THE COURT: All right. Go ahead with cross-
7 examination.
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. MCMAHON:
10 Q Mr. Stull, you acknowledge that you were, in fact,
11 trespassed from Emanuel Hospital back in 2011, correct?
12 A Could you rephrase the question?
13 Q Were you trespassed and do you know that you were
14 trespassed from Emanuel Hospital on October 14, 2011?
15 A Could you rephrase the question?
16 Q Were you trespassed from Emanuel Hospital on
17 October 14, 2011?
18 A I think you asked the same question three times
19 without rephrasing it. I'm going to direct you to the part
20 that's confusing me. You're using the word trespassed in
21 the past tense, and you're using it in the form of a verb.
22 Q Were you given a trespass notice on October 14,
23 2011, from Legacy Emanuel Hospital?
24 A I was arrested for trespassing at Emanuel
25 Hospital, on October 14, 2011. I was --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
661
1 MR. MCMAHON: May I please see 6?
2 THE WITNESS: I was found not guilty.
3 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. I'd
4 ask that that be stricken.
5 THE COURT: That shall be stricken.
6 MR. MCMAHON: Okay.
7 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, you're to listen to the
8 question and answer only the question --
9 THE WITNESS: Well, no. I was --
10 BY MR. MCMAHON:
11 Q Your -- Mr. --
12 THE COURT: -- unless you have leave of the Court
13 to elaborate on your answer, which is permitted in certain
14 circumstances. But first, answer the question that is
15 asked of you.
16 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, if I can first --
17 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, you are a witness. You're
18 being cross-examined by a --
19 THE WITNESS: I am.
20 THE COURT: -- Deputy District Attorney. And I
21 want you to listen to the --
22 THE WITNESS: And I'm going to talk.
23 THE COURT: -- question and answer the question.
24 THE WITNESS: I certainly will, Your Honor. But I
25 must identify a product of my disabling neurological

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
662
1 condition. It frustrates me when people use language that
2 is confusing.
3 THE COURT: I'm going to ask --
4 THE WITNESS: And I was asked --
5 THE COURT: Mr. -- I'm going to ask --
6 THE WITNESS: -- if I --
7 THE COURT: Just a moment. I'm going to ask Mr.
8 McMahon to explain what he means when he asks if you were
9 trespassed from Emanuel Hospital.
10 THE WITNESS: If you could, Your Honor. And if I
11 could just show you where it was cloudy for me was I could
12 have answered the question by referring to trespassed as
13 being given a notice of the Trespass Exclusion, which is
14 one thing, or trespassed meaning being arrested for
15 trespassing, which is another thing.
16 THE COURT: So I'm going to ask Mr. McMahon to
17 more clearly explain and define what he means when he means
18 when he asked if you were trespassed from Emanuel Hospital.
19 BY MR. MCMAHON:
20 Q State's Exhibit 1, you were given that on October
21 14, 2011, correct?
22 A Yes. Yes.
23 Q And you stated, on your direct examination, that
24 you knew that you could not be at Legacy Emanuel unless you
25 were getting emergency treatment, correct?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
663
1 A I know that I am not prohibited from accessing
2 emergency treatment at Legacy Emanuel Hospital.
3 Q That's not my question. You know that separate in
4 the emergency medical treatment, you can't be on the
5 premises. You can't go on the property. You can't stay
6 after you're discharged, correct?
7 A That in no way informs my decision. I only go to
8 Emanuel Hospital to access the emergency department, only
9 the --
10 Q You know you cannot stay on the premises after you
11 have received that treatment and been discharged, correct?
12 A Since November of --
13 Q Mr. Stull --
14 THE COURT: Yeah.
15 BY MR. MCMAHON:
16 Q -- it's a yes or no question.
17 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, you need to answer that
18 question yes or no. He's asking about your knowledge.
19 And repeat the question again, Mr. McMahon,
20 please.
21 BY MR. MCMAHON:
22 Q You know you have to leave Legacy Emanuel after
23 you have finished receiving emergency medical treatment,
24 correct?
25 A Yes.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
664
1 Q Okay. On that day, you had been discharged,
2 correct?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And you were still on the premises when the
5 security officer contacted you, correct?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And in fact, when asked to leave, you said no, I'm
8 going to go back to the lobby.
9 A No.
10 Q In fact, you never told them that you were trying
11 to get to an exit, correct?
12 A No.
13 Q In fact, you never told them that you were going
14 to leave, correct?
15 A No. I told them I was going to the bus schedules
16 in the lobby and I was going to the bus stop.
17 Q You never actually told them that, did you?
18 A I knew I was in a environment where I was exiting
19 the hospital, the hospital that could only access, without
20 fear of arrest, if I was going for emergency treatment. So
21 I certainly had to account for my whereabouts, why I was
22 there, and where I was continuing to go. And I was in the
23 process of moving when I was approached from behind, when I
24 was inquired --
25 Q Weren't you --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
665
1 A -- why was I going where I was. And of course,
2 logically, I figured if these people are asking me where
3 I'm going, it's because they don't know. And logically, if
4 I want to prevent and arrest, I'm going to say I'm leaving
5 the hospital, because I just got out of the emergency room,
6 because the only reason I cannot violate that Trespass
7 Exclusion is if I'm in the process of receiving emergency
8 treatment, which I was. The treatment was over. I was in
9 the process of leaving and the intention to go home. And
10 now I'm answering your question in ways that I don't think
11 you asked it. So I'm going to stop talking.
12 Q Okay. Mr. Stull, you knew you weren't supposed to
13 be there and you still remained on the premises, correct?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay.
16 MR. MCMAHON: No further questions, Your Honor.
18 Mr. Stull, do you have redirect of yourself? And
19 if so, proceed.
20 (Pause)
21 THE COURT: And your redirect must be confined to
22 any issues that were brought up by the District Attorney's
23 deputy in his cross-examination of you.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
666
1 BY MR. STULL:
2 Q Trespass Exclusion has been in effect in my
3 life --
4 THE COURT: Is there a question that you're asking
5 yourself.
6 MR. STULL: Yes.
7 BY MR. STULL:
8 Q What informs you and what actions are taken or not
9 taken --
11 think we're going --
12 BY MR. STULL:
13 Q -- regarding the Trespass Exclusion?
14 MR. MCMAHON: Your Honor, I'm going to object
15 here. I think we're going to the matter that was addressed
16 at the pretrial motion. Mr. Stull is trying to shoehorn it
17 in. It is clearly improper. And I ask that he be
18 prohibited from going down this, ma'am.
20 BY MR. STULL:
21 Q Mr. Stull, you mentioned being on the board of
22 directors of the Elliott Neighborhood Association.
23 MR. MCMAHON: Objection. Beyond the scope.
24 Relevance.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
667
2 THE COURT: I sustained the objection. Ask your
3 next question.
4 BY MR. STULL:
5 Q Did you go to any more meetings at Emanuel
6 Hospital once you were --
7 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Beyond the
8 scope.
9 BY MR. STULL:
10 Q -- given the notice of exclusion?
11 MR. MCMAHON: Beyond the scope. I would ask that
12 be stricken.
13 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. It shall be
14 stricken and shall be disregarded by the jury in their
15 deliberations.
16 This trial is about what occurred on November
17 22/22, 2015, not what happened after that.
18 BY MR. STULL:
19 Q Mr. Stull, when you were at Emanuel Hospital on
20 Friday, November 20th --
21 MR. MCMAHON: Objection. Beyond the scope.
22 BY MR. STULL:
23 Q -- did you leave?
24 THE COURT: The State did not bring up any
25 questioning of you, in cross-examination, about the events

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
668
1 of November 20th. The cross-examination was as to what
2 occurred on November 22nd and 23rd.
3 THE WITNESS: Well, absolutely, Your Honor. And
4 the issue was that I had entered --
5 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. He's
6 testifying. The objection has been sustained. I would ask
7 that he be asked to ask himself a question or --
8 THE COURT: You must ask yourself a question.
9 Respond to the question that's based upon any testimony or
10 issues that were elicited as the -- part of the
11 cross-examination by Mr. McMahon.
12 MR. STULL: I will certainly do that.
13 THE COURT: Which were confined to the events of
14 November 22nd.
15 MR. STULL: I will certainly do that. And I have
16 found a way to do that.
17 THE COURT: Go ahead, please.
18 BY MR. STULL:
19 Q Mr. Stull, regarding Mr. McMahon's inquiry as to
20 whether or not you knew you were allowed or not allowed to
21 be at Emanuel Hospital on November 25th, when you were
22 encountered by the security guards, you were asked if you
23 were -- knew you weren't allowed to be there. And you said
24 no. Why would you feel that you were allowed to be there?
25 A I was there two days earlier. Went -- came and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
669
1 went.
3 would ask that that be stricken.
4 THE COURT: I'll allow the response to stand.
5 Go ahead. Ask your next question.
6 Overruled.
7 THE WITNESS: Well, I had gone in and out on
8 Friday morning without any hitch.
9 THE COURT: Now you didn't ask yourself a question
10 or -- that's repetitive.
11 MR. STULL: Oh. It was repetitive. I'm sorry,
12 Your Honor.
13 BY MR. STULL:
14 Q So to rephrase the question, why did you feel, on
15 Sunday night, that you had the right to continue leaving
16 the property in the course of action that you took?
17 A One, I didn't know that the main entrance was
18 locked. And two, I knew that the security guards will
19 escort people at Emanuel Hospital for any number reasons.
20 And to get somebody that has a Trespass Exclusion off the
21 property is one of the reasons. So I felt if I was
22 supposed to be leaving the property, and I was in the
23 process of leaving the property, that I would just be
24 escorted, including to stop to check the bus schedule, and
25 I would be allowed to leave the building. The only time I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
670
1 was identified as doing anything wrong was by the verbal
2 communications of the security guards. There was no signs
3 that said do not enter. There was no bear cave or station
4 that says don't come here. It didn't say staff only.
5 Didn't say employees only. Didn't say restricted area.
6 There was nothing to inform me that I was doing anything
7 except leaving the hospital as I had done hours earlier,
8 perhaps 50 hours earlier.
9 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, do you have any
10 further questions of yourself? You've lapsed into
11 narrative. Anything additional you want to ask yourself
12 pertaining to the cross-examination?
13 BY MR. STULL:
14 Q Mr. Stull, you know that you were issued a
15 Trespass Exclusion in November -- October 2011, November
16 2011. If you had to go to the emergency room right now,
17 today, where would you go?
18 A I would go to Emanuel Hospital, and then I would
19 leave after I was discharged.
21 THE COURT: All right. You may step down.
22 Mr. Stull, any further witnesses to be called
23 or --
24 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. We have a matter --
25 I don't know. I might defer to Mr. Kelley, if he thinks it

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
671
1 should be taken care of in the presence of the jury or not.
2 THE COURT: Well, I'm asking you, Mr. Stull, do
3 you have any further witnesses that you are going to be
4 calling? Yes or no, please.
5 (Counsel and Defendant confer.)
6 MR. STULL: I don't have a witness, but I have
7 a --
8 THE COURT: Do you have any further witnesses that
9 you will be calling?
10 MR. STULL: I don't have a witness, but I do have
11 an audio.
12 THE COURT: What? So you're asking --
13 MR. STULL: I don't rest my case yet is what I'm
14 saying.
15 THE COURT: You're -- all right. Well, your
16 answer to my question is you have no further witnesses that
17 you --
18 MR. STULL: No further people via the witness
19 stand.
20 THE COURT: All right. And you have some exhibits
21 that you want to admit -- seeking to admit or some audio
22 device that you're seeking to admit; is that correct?
24 THE COURT: Or to play. All right. With the
25 exception then of those exhibits or audio device that

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
672
1 you're seeking to admit --
2 MR. STULL: Right.
3 THE COURT: -- then you have concluded the
4 testimony. And we'll take that -- those matters up upon my
5 return.
6 MR. STULL: Oh, certainly. Oh, certainly, Your
7 Honor.
8 THE COURT: Yes.
9 MR. STULL: Yes.
10 THE COURT: All right. So, members of the jury,
11 though you aren't in your jury room as you were for a long
12 period of time this morning, the difference between being a
13 lawyer and a judge, one of them is, as a lawyer, you're
14 always concerned about what the jury is thinking about your
15 case. As a judge, you suddenly are very conscious of how
16 long you told the jury they're going to be in the jury room
17 and things, after you're taken out of your presence. And
18 so, I want to keep that at a minimum. So I'm going to ask
19 that you come back at 1:45. Okay. All right.
20 We're -- and ask that you be back then at 1:25.
23 MR. MCMAHON: Yes, Your Honor.
24 (Lunch Break taken from 11:45 a.m. to 1:41 p.m.)
25 THE COURT: All right. We're back on the record.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
673
1 Mr. Stull, you had some matters that you wanted to
2 address before we bring the jury back in with respect to
3 some exhibits.
4 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. The one thing I
5 have, and I'll start with the most important one first,
6 there was a 911 call that I made prior to the English being
7 dispatched.
8 THE COURT: On November 22nd.
9 MR. STULL: Yes, on November 22nd.
10 THE COURT: And Mr. Kelley has that audio.
11 MR. STULL: And I'd be certainly happy to allow
12 you to hear that. Mr. McMahon has already heard that.
13 It's very brief. And make your determination whether that
14 can come in as evidence.
15 THE COURT: Well, there's the issue of custodian
16 of the record or authentication. Is there a stipulation?
17 MR. MCMAHON: No, there's not, Your Honor. And
18 the State would also raise -- pardon me -- would raise
19 issues of relevance at this point. I don't think it's a
20 fact in dispute, and it doesn't really have an impact on
21 any of the facts in dispute in this case, whether or not
22 Mr. Stull actually called an ambulance. I think it's
23 pretty clear here that from the record and from the
24 stipulation, I believe, it indicated that Mr. Stull
25 requested and was transported. And I think that playing

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
674
1 the audio doesn't make any fact in this case more or less
2 likely to be true.
3 THE COURT: And so, what is the relevance beyond
4 the fact that you called the ambulance? You testified as
5 to certain physical conditions that you were experiencing.
6 MR. STULL: Right.
7 THE COURT: The ambulance came. Eventually, the
8 ambulance took you to the hospital.
9 MR. STULL: Right.
10 THE COURT: So as to that issue, what's the
11 relevance?
12 And the secondary issue, or the first issue,
13 either way you want to look at it, is the foundation,
14 because you can't display an audio without laying the
15 foundation, so that it is accepted as a business record. A
16 custodian of the BOEC tape would have to testify or -- if
17 the State does not stipulate to its being accepted without
18 the foundation, which doesn't mean it would be admitted
19 into the evidence, because there's still the relevance
20 challenge.
21 MR. STULL: Oh. Well, it's my understanding that
22 this Bureau of --
23 THE COURT: BOEC.
24 MR. STULL: BOEC. Thank you, Your Honor. Bureau
25 of Emergency -- it's communications.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
675
1 THE COURT: Right.
2 MR. STULL: But anyhow, I believe that would be
3 public record.
4 THE COURT: Well, you have to lay a foundation.
5 You have to lay the foundation for it.
7 THE COURT: Mr. McMahon, I'll allow you to make
8 the objection on the record.
9 MR. STULL: Oh, yes. Oh, excuse me, Your Honor.
10 MR. MCMAHON: That --
11 MR. STULL: Yeah. I would just simply testify
12 that I made that call on that day. That would validate my
13 version of it, my side of the conversation. As far as the
14 receiving end being the Bureau of -- the bureau, then
15 that's another entirely. But I would be certainly willing
16 to testify that that was the call that I made, that this --
17 THE COURT: So, Mr. McMahon, why don't you just
18 state your objections on the record, the basis for them as
19 to --
20 MR. MCMAHON: Yeah.
21 THE COURT: -- both, any issues as the foundation
22 and as to relevance.
23 MR. MCMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. At this point, Mr.
24 Stull concluded his testimony. There's no indication that
25 he's going to call any further witnesses to lay foundation,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
676
1 that this is a true and accurate copy of that record, that
2 it is properly authenticated, that it is not hearsay and
3 falls under any of the requisite his instructions, even
4 though it is a recording. It still constitutes hearsay,
5 because they are out-of-court statements being offered for
6 the truth of the matter asserted. And furthermore finally,
7 again, I would reiterate the relevance of this call to the
8 facts at bar. I think it's that it doesn't bear on the
9 Criminal Trespass in the second degree.
10 THE COURT: Uh-huh. Mr. Stull.
11 MR. STULL: Judge, your -- the reason that I
12 would, even after all the other testimony and other
13 evidence, would even consider this as being important is
14 that it shows that, at the time I made the call, I said I
15 was really sick and I can't tell about it, or something to
16 that effect. I actually hung up the phone on the 911
17 Operator, because that's the condition I was in. I was so
18 deteriorated based on this neurological condition that
19 that's as good as I could do under those circumstances.
20 And I think that's important.
21 You know, if we're going to talk about anything
22 regarding, you know, we've had a -- just conversation --
23 I'm not the first person in the room, and I don't know if I
24 said that all -- diminished capacity in those type of
25 things. With certainly not asking for jury instructions on

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
677
1 diminished capacity. But I think that if the jury could
2 infer that when I hung up on the 911 operator, requesting
3 assistance, I was that person. And when I was being
4 interrogated, after I said the word central pain syndrome
5 to the AMR respondent and all the first responders, that I
6 was still that person. And what they were trying to elicit
7 from me was something that I physically wasn't able to
8 provide because of the nature of my physical condition.
9 And that, of course, was not so relevant as to the events
10 at Emanuel Hospital, because of that, but it's relevant to
11 the events at Emanuel Hospital that shows that I had been
12 through an emotional roller coaster ringer that actually
13 worsened my condition. And at the time that I had the
14 encounter with the security guards, I told them what --
15 they testified I didn't tell them. And, you know, that's
16 just who I was then when I made that call, Your Honor. And
17 I believe the -- it's public record. So there's no
18 custodian needed, and --
19 THE COURT: Well, let's look at the rule as to
20 public records. Let's see.
21 MR. STULL: And Mr. Kelley actually got that off
22 the --
23 What cite was that from?
24 MR. KELLEY: It's the Portland City --
25 MR. STULL: Do you want to speak to the Court on

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
678
1 my behalf on that matter?
2 THE COURT: No. You are the attorney.
3 MR. STULL: Okay.
4 THE COURT: He is only your advisor.
5 MR. STULL: All right, sure.
6 THE COURT: We can't cross lines here.
7 MR. STULL: All right, fine.
8 THE COURT: He can speak to you.
9 (Counsel confer.)
10 MR. STULL: All right. They were obtained through
11 the Portland Public -- received in the Portland Oregon
12 Public Records Office, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Right. But there's no foundation for
14 that. We don't know where it came from and as you have
15 someone testify. I'm looking at the public records. I'd
16 ask all of you to look at it. It's 803(10)(3). It talks
17 about the absence of public record.
18 MR. KELLEY: 803(3).
19 THE COURT: Oh, yeah. Mr. McMahon, you argued
20 that the BOEC tape requires custodian or authentication
21 foundation to be laid.
22 MR. MCMAHON: Yes, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: So can you identify the evidentiary
24 section that addresses that? I'm looking through it right
25 now.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
679
1 MR. MCMAHON: Yes. That is 803, Your Honor. I am
2 trying to find the code section. So the 803(8) --
3 THE COURT: Sub 8. All right.
4 MR. MCMAHON: -- and the --
5 THE COURT: There's 803 sub -- 803(8)(3)(a),
6 public records of reports. Is that --
7 MR. MCMAHON: No. I think it's 8-0 -- it's under
8 § 40.460.
9 THE COURT: Pardon me? What?
10 MR. MCMAHON: 803(8) -- 803(8)(b). Matters
11 observed pursuant to duty imposed by law as to which
12 matters there was a duty to report, excluding, in criminal
13 cases, matters observed by police officers and other law
14 enforcement personnel.
15 THE COURT: Well, so I'm looking at examples of
16 such records, matters observed pursuant to duty. (b)
17 includes report of police, public investigators, social
18 workers, et cetera, regarding matters observed pursuant to
19 duty. The second requires not only that the observations
20 have been pursuant to duty but that the making of the
21 report was pursuant to duty as well. I'm not sure that
22 that specifically applies.
23 (Pause)
24 MR. MCMAHON: And I think as far as authentication
25 goes, this falls under Rule 902, self-authentication. But

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
680
1 under Rule 902(1)(d), it does require that there be a
2 certificate of --
3 THE COURT: What's the section again?
4 MR. MCMAHON: Sorry, Your Honor. 902(1)(d).
5 THE COURT: All right. 902.01?
6 MR. MCMAHON: 902-point -- Yeah, 902.1(d), which
7 reads a copy of an official record --
8 THE COURT: (d) as in dog?
9 MR. MCMAHON: D as in dog, yes.
10 THE COURT: Okay.
11 MR. MCMAHON: I apologize.
12 THE COURT: Certified copies of public records, a
13 copy of an official record will report or entry therein, or
14 document authorized by law to be recorded or filed and
15 actually recorded or filed in a public office, including
16 data compilations in any form, certified as correct by the
17 custodian or other person authorized to make certification
18 by certified -- by complying with (1)(a), (b), or (c) of
19 this section.
20 MR. MCMAHON: And the State's argument is,
21 essentially, we don't have --
22 THE COURT: You have to speak up a little bit, Mr.
23 McMahon.
24 MR. MCMAHON: I'm sorry, Your Honor. My fault.
25 THE COURT: You're garbling your words here,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
681
1 having trouble hearing you --
2 MR. MCMAHON: So --
3 THE COURT: -- in addition to my cold.
4 MR. MCMAHON: The issue here is that we don't have
5 a custodian of that record. And it's not
6 self-authenticating, because it doesn't satisfy the
7 requirements of 902. For those reasons, even though it may
8 be a public record, the proper foundation or the proper
9 authentication cannot be laid in order to admit that to the
10 jury at trial. That's separate and distinct from the
11 States relevant argument. But I think here, Mr. Stull,
12 unless he can proffer otherwise, I don't think he can lay
13 the proper foundation or authentication for that record to
14 come in and be played for the jury.
15 THE COURT: Again, (d), certified copies of public
16 records, a copy of an official record or report or entry
17 therein, or of a document authorized by law to be recorded
18 or filed and actually recorded or filed in a public office,
19 including data compilations in any form, certified as
20 correct by the custodian or other person authorized to make
21 the certification.
22 This is under the section of self-authentication.
23 And this (d) is being argued. And I understand it must be
24 certified as correct by the custodian or other person
25 authorized to make the certification.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
682
1 So the State would be contending that this is a
2 public record?
3 MR. MCMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. And I believe that
4 that would be the exception, if proper foundation were to
5 be laid, that would fall under. But the State's argument
6 that, as it stands, that is not proper foundation and not
7 proper authentication. That's not to say that they
8 couldn't be. But as it stands, based on the evidence that
9 Mr. Stull has presented, the witnesses that Mr. Stull has
10 provided, and the fact that there's no certificate of
11 authenticity that would create a self-authenticating record
12 under 905 that, on that basis, Mr. Stull has not and cannot
13 lay proper foundation to admit this document.
14 THE COURT: Without a stipulation from the State
15 that it is admissible, that it is a properly recorded
16 record of the call, the number one car that was made on
17 November 22nd, received by the dispatch officer at the
18 police department, it's not admissible. It has to have a
19 foundation to establish its authenticity.
20 MR. STULL: Right. Thank you, Your Honor.
21 Without running it too far along on this, we do have the
22 internet now. And we do have the city of Portland
23 publishing the documents via the Internet. They do have a
24 webpage that's --
25 THE COURT: Yeah.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
683
1 MR. STULL: -- that says how to make a public
2 records request. And --
3 THE COURT: You can make a public records request
4 or you can get the public records. But in a trial --
5 MR. STULL: Right.
6 THE COURT: -- in order to present that --
7 MR. STULL: Sure.
8 THE COURT: -- you have to either have a
9 stipulation that it is admissible or you have to have the
10 custodian here or someone who is responsible for making the
11 record to authenticate it. So it's a matter of evidence
12 law requiring that there is authentication of the document
13 or, in this case, the audio recording. It's not
14 self-authenticating.
15 MR. STULL: Although the website it comes from is
16 the public agency, the city of Portland, right?
17 THE COURT: But that doesn't have anything to do
18 with being authenticated in a court of law.
20 THE COURT: So your motion to admit that audio
21 recording without stipulation by the State or
22 authentication is denied.
23 What's your next motion you'd like to have --
24 MR. STULL: No. Yeah. Your Honor, the -- I'm just
25 going to let you know where I'm coming as a pro se

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
684
1 litigant. I have a -- similarly, I have a Portland Fire
2 Bureau report on the incident. And it was subpoenaed by
3 the staff at Multnomah Defenders when they were on this
4 case, or actually, when they were on two cases. It was
5 subpoenaed under the case number, the -- you know, because
6 we've already told you about having our hearing on Thursday
7 at 11:30, this other case. Well, it was subpoenaed under
8 that case. We don't have the custodian of records that,
9 but I believe we do have that report. And --
10 THE COURT: You run into the same problem. You
11 have to have -- well, with police reports, unless there's a
12 stipulation, they cannot be entered into evidence. You
13 would be able to provide -- if you had a police officer
14 here, provide the report to refresh the police officer's
15 recollection as to testify.
17 THE COURT: And the same application of the law
18 applies to a fire department person. You know, again, the
19 report itself cannot come into evidence unless there's a
20 stipulation. You could have a person from the fire
21 department here and then provide that report, and then have
22 them -- to refresh their recollection for their testimony.
23 MR. STULL: And before we bring the jury back, and
24 I think we're about to do, I'll just state on the record
25 that I have been diligently pursuing the defense with this

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
685
1 case, as soon as I made my first appearance, which would
2 have been November 2015. Here we are in 2017. And when I
3 was authorized I'll say by Judge Marshall to appear pro se
4 with a court-appointed legal advisor --
5 THE COURT: Right.
6 MR. STULL: It was specifically for the purpose of
7 subpoenaing the Defense exhibits.
8 THE COURT: And you have the power through your
9 legal advisor to have subpoenaed individuals to come to
10 court to testify.
12 THE COURT: To subpoena records --
13 MR. STULL: I can.
14 THE COURT: -- together with those individuals.
15 MR. STULL: Not meaning to cut you off. I
16 understand.
17 THE COURT: No, no. I mean I just --
18 MR. STULL: Not meaning to cut you off, Your
19 Honor, but -- because I want to get on with this --
20 THE COURT: Yeah.
21 MR. STULL: -- as much as anybody.
23 MR. STULL: But I'm saying that it hasn't been for
24 want of me trying as hard as a person who's a defendant
25 assigned a public defender could possibly try.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
686
2 MR. STULL: I have email records going back for
3 months and months. I have, you know -- I -- so I can take
4 that matter up on ineffective assistance of counsel, in all
5 due respect to Mr. Kelley. I'm just saying that one of the
6 things that the courts, plural, need to understand is that
7 if Multnomah County defender lawyers have 100 or 140 cases
8 each, and one of those defendants has one opportunity to
9 make a phone call from jail to say I need whatever that is,
10 and that one phone call and that request for that defense
11 exhibit or the defense witness or that defense whatever --
13 MR. STULL: -- if that doesn't land, then we have
14 no counsel as indigent defendants, because we don't have
15 the --
17 MR. STULL: Particularly when you get to a person
18 with a disability. We don't have the financial resources.
19 We've been qualified by the Court to have the counsel. Our
20 United States Constitution -- we have a court-appointed
21 counsel because it's -- the constitution says that.
23 MR. STULL: But that doesn't mean anything if it's
24 impossible for a Defendant with experience, with intellect,
25 with an understanding of the Oregon Evidence Code -- I know

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
687
1 the Oregon Evidence Code is more than I really care to
2 learn. I have other things I'd rather spend my energy on.
3 And I'm saying that we could trace what's happening right
4 now back to February 9, 2015, when I said I need to have
5 someone help me get my defense witnesses --
6 THE COURT: Well, all right. So --
7 MR. STULL: -- and my defense and --
8 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you've made
9 that point.
10 MR. STULL: So that's all I wanted to clear with
11 the Court.
12 THE COURT: And I don't know what went on between
13 you or any of your counsel or legal advisors, or whatever.
14 The subpoena power is available as it is available to the
15 State.
17 THE COURT: And is the mechanism by which you
18 would have to bring individuals or documents into court --
19 MR. STULL: I know that, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: -- with those individuals.
21 MR. STULL: I know --
22 THE COURT: So you've made your statement about
23 your concerns about those who have been representing you
24 not performing their duties at your request is what I'm
25 understanding. So that's separate matter and apart from

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
688
1 the process here today and trying this case.
2 MR. STULL: Oh, absolutely, Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Right.
4 MR. STULL: And I was only reflecting --
5 THE COURT: All right. So let's move on. We've
6 got a jury --
7 MR. STULL: Sure.
8 THE COURT: -- who's sitting in there.
9 MR. STULL: Sure.
10 THE COURT: And are there any other matters you
11 need to bring before the Court?
12 MR. STULL: No. But just to finalize --
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. STULL: -- that, I was only reflecting the
15 commentary that --
17 MR. STULL: -- the Court was unaware that
18 prisoners being -- letting out in the middle of the night
19 when the buses weren't running. So somebody has to
20 communicate that.
21 THE COURT: I took note of that.
22 MR. STULL: All right. So I just wanted to --
23 THE COURT: I did take note of that.
24 MR. STULL: Also, with what I'm saying about my
25 inability to break through the bureaucratic endurance of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
689
1 mice and the obtained what it would take to have this --
2 THE COURT: Right.
3 MR. STULL: -- in a form that it would be
4 admissible in court. And I'll sit down and we'll bring the
5 jury in, Your Honor. Thank you for your patience.
6 THE COURT: All right. Well, we have the matter
7 of jury instructions.
8 MR. MCMAHON: That's what the State was going to
9 stand up and address. I think that -- so the State has
10 submitted its request of instructions. I don't know if Mr.
11 Stull has --
12 THE COURT: Has the defense submitted any
13 instructions?
14 MR. STULL: Your Honor, two things.
15 THE COURT: Let --
16 MR. STULL: We have no objections to the State's
17 instructions.
19 MR. STULL: And we'll accept those. And we bring
20 up the issue of telephone codes, calls being their own
21 self-authenticating, under Oregon Rules of Evidence Code.
22 My legal advisor has -- it's Rule 901.2(f), telephone
23 calls.
24 (Counsel confer.)
25 MR. STULL: Yeah. And a witness with knowledge

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
690
1 may authenticate a telephone call. And I certainly have
2 knowledge, and I certainly could authenticate that call.
3 MR. MCMAHON: Your Honor, it would still remain
4 hearsay, and it would still remain irrelevant.
5 THE COURT: Now what would be your hearsay
6 objection under (f), telephone conversations? Telephone
7 conversations by evidence by a call that's made to the
8 number assigned at the time by the telephone company to a
9 particular person or business. If in the case of a person
10 or circumstances including self-identification shall be the
11 one answering be the one called, or be, in the case of a
12 business, the call was made to a place of business in the
13 conversation related to business reasonably transacted over
14 the telephone.
15 MR. MCMAHON: I think what the issue is, is that
16 that limited purpose of 901.2(f) is basically saying that
17 you cannot -- the person making the phone call can
18 authenticate that it was made to a certain different
19 person, like if --
20 THE COURT: Wait. I'm sorry. You -- I didn't
21 quite hear your words there.
22 MR. MCMAHON: I was just giving -- so,
23 essentially, like if I were to make a phone call to the
24 number I had entered in my phone under the contact Mom, I
25 could say, and it would be authenticated that I made a call

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
691
1 to my mom, and my answered the phone, because I made the
2 call to the number identified under that name. And I
3 think, for the purposes of that limited nature, basically
4 saying it can be identified as being made to a specific
5 person or a business, based on my reading of 901, it looks
6 like that's what it pertains to, because 901.1, it says the
7 requirement of authentication or identification as a
8 condition precedent to admissibility is satisfied by
9 evidence sufficient to support a finding that the matter in
10 question is what are proponent's claims. And then (2)
11 actually just gives examples. (2) is not operative, and
12 (2) says an example where such authentication would occur
13 includes where you're making a phone call to a listed
14 number and you know whose number that is. So I don't think
15 that is --
16 THE COURT: Well, let's see. Let's back up a
17 little bit.
19 THE COURT: It says telephone conversations. So
20 by way of illustration only, under subsection 2, and not by
21 way of limitation, the following examples of authentication
22 or identification conforming with the requirements of
23 subsection (1) of this section.
24 Subsection 1 says the requirement of
25 authentication or identification is a condition precedent

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
692
1 to admissibility is satisfied by evidence sufficient to
2 support a finding that the matter in question is what a --
3 what its -- what a proponent claims.
4 Okay. So then -- so (2) gives examples. Oh.
5 Here's an example that a nonexpert opinion on writing would
6 be admissible, nonexpert opinion as to the genuineness of
7 handwriting based upon familiarity not acquired for the
8 purposes of litigation.
9 (e) is voice identification. Identification with
10 voice, whether heard firsthand or through mechanic or
11 electronic transmission, by opinion based upon hearing the
12 voice at any time under the circumstances connecting it
13 with the alleged speaker.
14 So that means that if you are able to recognize
15 someone's voice, then that can come in without further
16 authentication. Would you agree with that?
17 MR. MCMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. I think that
18 this --
19 THE COURT: Okay. All right. But now -- let's --
20 for now, were moving to (f).
22 THE COURT: And (f) says -- so in this case, under
23 (e), all that Mr. Stull could be contending under (e) is
24 that he hears his own voice.
25 MR. MCMAHON: Correct. And I think the issue is

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
693
1 it's not authentication. It's foundation, because -- and
2 then whether or not -- so Mr. Stull can authenticate this
3 call. Okay. And I have no issue with the authentication.
4 The issue is that proper found --
5 THE COURT: Did you say he can or cannot?
6 MR. MCMAHON: Can. He --
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 MR. MCMAHON: Can, positively. He can
9 authenticate it, but the issue is that that authentication
10 doesn’t lay the necessary foundation to get it in under the
11 hearsay requirement that he is purporting to use, that it
12 is a public record. So he can say that's my voice. That's
13 accurate. That has satisfied the authentication prong of
14 the test, but he still has failed to provide the necessary
15 foundational elements required by the evidence code, namely
16 certification, to admit that exhibit. So he can
17 authenticate it, but he still hasn't and isn't able to show
18 that there is proper foundation for it and that it -- in
19 order to get around the fact that it's hearsay. So for
20 those reasons, it's still inadmissible even with the
21 authentication.
22 THE COURT: All right. So the ruling of the
23 Court, I agree with that analysis, is that it is
24 inadmissible as hearsay, that it lacks -- there's nothing
25 to suggest that you're going to be able to lay a proper

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
694
1 foundation. You can authenticate your voice on the BOEC
2 tape but not to lay the foundation for its admissibility.
3 And secondly, the Court doesn't find that it's relevant to
4 the issue that's being tried in this case.
5 The Court gave latitude for you to discuss what
6 happened once you were at the hospital on the 20th and
7 your -- the action you took as a result of receiving
8 papers, of which you do not have a copy for reasons you've
9 explained. Not allowing into evidence, for the truth of
10 the matter asserted, what those papers said but for the
11 impact upon you.
13 THE COURT: That you believed that you were to
14 return to the hospital if you had another emergency
15 actuation as you had had on Friday. But to go back to
16 playing the tape of your call of this, on the 22nd, but to
17 bring in that, there is no additional relevance to the
18 charge of Criminal Trespass in the second degree, pursuant
19 to the order that the State has introduced as a lawful
20 order, contends that it's a lawful order. So it's denied
21 on two bases; one, the lack of authentication, and, two,
22 relevance.
23 All right. Bring in the jury.
25 THE COURT: And the jury instructions. All right.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
695
1 MR. MCMAHON: And, Your Honor, we -- I imagine
2 unless Mr. Stull has any other evidence to offer, I imagine
3 he'll rest. And then will Your Honor instruct and then
4 we'll close? Is that the --
5 THE COURT: Well, yeah.
6 And so, anything further, Mr. Stull, or do you
7 rest?
8 MR. STULL: No. No, Your Honor. The --
9 THE COURT: Defense rests?
10 MR. STULL: The Defense rests.
12 Any rebuttal?
13 MR. MCMAHON: No, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: All right. Now in -- with respect to
15 jury instructions, some lawyers, or those acting as
16 lawyers, prefer that the instructions be read for closing
17 arguments, so that the jury has context in which to put the
18 arguments of counsel as they recall the evidence. The old
19 way to do it was closing arguments and then give the
20 instructions. So I will do whichever way that the two of
21 you prefer.
22 MR. STULL: We've agreed to allow you to do the
23 instructions first and then --
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 MR. STULL: -- closing arguments after.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
696
2 MR. STULL: And I am familiar with the they get
3 two turns and I get one turn.
4 THE COURT: Right.
5 MR. STULL: So I'll tell you that now --
6 THE COURT: They go first.
7 MR. STULL: -- before we --
8 THE COURT: They go -- yeah.
9 MR. STULL: -- bring the jury in.
10 THE COURT: And that -- right. And that their
11 rebuttal is confined to issues that you brought up your
12 summation. Okay. All right.
13 So let's bring the jury in.
14 THE CLERK: I have a couple of questions about the
15 jury instructions.
16 THE COURT: What are they?
17 THE CLERK: For the evaluating witness testimony,
18 whether or not --
19 THE COURT: Okay.
20 MR. STULL: -- 5 or 6 should be included.
21 THE COURT: Okay. Looking at evaluating witness
22 testimony, there's been no testimony concerning the
23 character of the witness or truthfulness, nor any testimony
24 that the witness has been convicted of a previous crime.
25 So, Mr. Stull, it is important --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
697
1 MR. STULL: I'm sorry.
2 THE COURT: -- for you to listen to. So because
3 there is no testimony that would provide a basis for giving
4 subsections 5 and 6 of evaluating witness testimony, the
5 Court will strike those.
6 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. And the State would
7 withdraw -- I know those are kind of -- those are optional
8 with the State.
9 THE COURT: Right.
10 MR. MCMAHON: We do not object to that.
11 THE CLERK: So then Defendant's prior conviction,
12 that instruction would come out?
13 MR. MCMAHON: Yes.
14 THE COURT: All right. So just to go through
15 them, we have functions of the Court and jury. We have
16 evaluating witness testimony with subsections 1 through 4.
17 We have inferences, innocence of Defendant, proof beyond a
18 reasonable doubt, verdict misdemeanor case. I mean --
19 So Defendant not testifying -- Mr. Stull
20 testified.
22 MR. MCMAHON: The State will withdraw that.
23 THE COURT: Yeah. Defendant's prior conviction,
24 we take that out. There's no evidence of any prior
25 conviction. Defendant's statements, that stays in.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
698
1 Intentionally, with intent, knowingly and with knowledge,
2 recklessly, definitions of enter or remain unlawfully, open
3 to the public, person in charge, premises, and then
4 Criminal Trespass in the second degree, and the verdict
5 form. Do we have a --
6 THE CLERK: I have the verdict form. I believe
7 the date was incorrect in one of the other -- a spot.
8 MR. MCMAHON: On the State's version? My
9 apologies.
10 THE CLERK: Yeah.
11 MR. MCMAHON: Sorry about that.
12 THE COURT: So that's the -- all right. So
13 there's been testimony as to the 22nd and 23rd. Is it on
14 or about?
15 MR. MCMAHON: Yeah. It was on or -- it should
16 read on or about the 23rd. I think that's how it was
17 charged on the --
18 THE COURT: All right. This is the -- so it says
19 the 25th here.
20 THE CLERK: Yeah.
21 MR. MCMAHON: 25th. Okay.
22 THE COURT: So it should be the action occurred on
23 or about November 23, 2015.
24 MR. MCMAHON: Yeah. It looks like the charging --
25 well, the charging instrument says November 22nd. So I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
699
1 think that in order to accurately reflect, that it should
2 be the 22nd and --
3 THE COURT: All right. On or about the 22nd.
4 MR. MCMAHON: And I would request -- I think
5 there's a definition for on or about or the dates. I think
6 that's in the uniform -- I think the State would request
7 that instruction.
8 THE COURT: All right. We need to print that out
9 then, the on or about instruction.
10 MR. STULL: No objections, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Yeah. Okay. So your statement, Mr.
12 Stull, there are no objections, is that as to the jury
13 instructions that the Court will be giving? Do you have
14 any -- do you take any exception to any of the
15 instructions? And you --
16 MR. STULL: No, Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: All right. And you -- and I'll ask
18 you again after the jury has gone out, because then I will
19 have read them.
21 THE COURT: But just to sort anything further out,
22 at this point, I'll be asking you. Okay.
23 All right. I'll do my best not to lose my voice.
24 (Pause)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
700
1 (Jury enters.)
2 THE COURT: All right. Members of the jury,
3 again, thank you for your patience. We are now ready to
4 proceed with closing arguments in this case. I will first
5 read you the jury instructions that gives you some context
6 with which to put the closing arguments and the evidence as
7 you recollected from the testimony and admitting exhibits.
8 It is your sole responsibility to make all the
9 decisions about the facts in this case. You must evaluate
10 the evidence determine how reliable or how believable the
11 evidence is. When you make a decision about the facts, you
12 must then apply the legal rules to those facts and reach a
13 verdict. Remember, however, that your power to reach a
14 verdict is not arbitrary. When I tell you what the law is
15 on a particular subject or tell you how to evaluate certain
16 evidence, you must follow these instructions.
17 Do not allow anything I have said or done during
18 the course of this trial suggest that I have formed any
19 opinion about this case. Keep in mind that a judge is
20 required by law to give certain instruction in every
21 criminal case.
22 When I have sustained objections to evidence
23 ordered that evidence be stricken or excluded from your
24 consideration, you must follow these rulings. Do not
25 consider such matters during your deliberations. They show

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
701
1 verdict on the evidence in these instructions. The
2 lawyer's statements and arguments are not evidence. If
3 your recollection of the evidence is different from the
4 lawyer's recollection, you must rely on your own memory.
5 In deciding this case, you must consider all the
6 evidence to find worthy of belief. It is your duty to
7 weigh the evidence commonly and dispassionately and to
8 decide this case on its merits. Do not allow bias,
9 sympathy, or prejudice any place in your deliberations, and
10 do not decide this case on guesswork, conjecture, or
11 speculation. Do not consider what sentence might be
12 imposed by the Court if the Defendant is found guilty.
13 Generally, the testimony of any witness whom you
14 believe is sufficient to prove any fact in dispute. You
15 are not simply to count witnesses, but you are to weigh the
16 evidence.
17 During the course of this trial, the Court allowed
18 jurors to prepare questions, but in this case there were no
19 questions asked. So I won't address that further.
20 Keep in mind that each party is entitled to the
21 considered decision of each juror. Therefore, you should
22 not give undue weight to another juror's notes for memory
23 if they conflict with your recollection of the evidence.
24 The Court has provided written instructions for
25 your use. When you use these instructions, do not place

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
702
1 undue emphasis on any particular instruction. Rather, view
2 the instructions as a whole.
3 The term witness includes every person who has
4 testified under oath in this case. Every witness has taken
5 an oath to tell the truth. In evaluating each witness'
6 testimony, however, you may consider such things as the
7 manner in which the witness testifies, the nature of
8 quality of the witness' testimony, evidence that
9 contradicts the testimony of the witness, evidence
10 concerning the bias, motives, or interest of the witness.
11 In deciding this case, you may draw inferences and
12 reach conclusions from the evidence if your inferences and
13 conclusions are reasonable and are based on your common
14 sense and experience.
15 The Defendant is innocent unless and until the
16 Defendant is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The
17 burden is on the State and the State alone prove the guilt
18 of the Defendant beyond a reasonable doubt. Reasonable
19 doubt is doubt based on common sense and reason.
20 Reasonable doubt is not an imaginary doubt. Reasonable
21 doubt means an honest uncertainty as to the guilt of the
22 Defendant. You must return a verdict of not guilty if,
23 after careful and impartial consideration of all the
24 evidence in the case, you are not convinced beyond a
25 reasonable doubt that the Defendant is guilty.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
703
1 When you return to the jury room, select one of
2 your members to act as the presiding juror. The presiding
3 juror has no greater voting weight but is to preside over
4 your deliberations and be the spokesperson for the jury to
5 then deliberate and find your verdict.
6 If it becomes necessary during your deliberations
7 to communicate with me, do so in writing. I will consult
8 with the parties before responding.
9 No one except for you, the jurors, is to be
10 involved in your deliberations. Therefore, do not tell
11 anyone, including me, how many of you are voting not guilty
12 or guilty until you have reached a lawful verdict or have
13 been discharged.
14 Each and every juror must agree on your verdict.
15 So whether your verdict is not guilty or guilty, all of you
16 must agree on the verdict. If you are divided 5 to 1, for
17 example, you do not have a verdict. When you have arrived
18 at a verdict, the presiding juror will complete the --
19 complete and sign the appropriate verdict form. After you
20 have reached your verdict, the single -- signal my clerk,
21 Ms. Brown, and then the Court will receive your verdict
22 once we have you back in the courtroom.
23 When a witness testifies about statements made by
24 the Defendant, you should consider such testimony with
25 caution. In reviewing such testimony, you should consider,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
704
1 among other things, the following:
2 Did the Defendant make the statement? And if so,
3 did the Defendant clearly express what he intended to say?
4 Did the witness correctly hear and understand what
5 the Defendant said?
6 Did the witness correctly remember and relate what
7 the Defendant said?
8 Did the witness intentionally or mistakenly alter
9 some of the words by the Defendant, thereby changing the
10 meaning of what was actually said?
11 If, after weighing such factors, you conclude that
12 the Defendant said what he intended to say and that the
13 witness to the statement correctly understood, remembered,
14 and related to you what the Defendant said, then you
15 authorized to consider such statements for what you deem
16 them to be worth.
17 A person acts intentionally or with intent when
18 that person acts with a conscious objective to cause a
19 particular result or engage in a particular conduct. When
20 used in the phrase unlawfully and intentionally enter and
21 remain or upon president -- let me repeat that. When used
22 in the phrase unlawfully and intentionally enter and remain
23 in or upon premises, intentionally or with intent means
24 that a person acts with a conscious objective to unlawfully
25 enter or remain in or upon the premises.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
705
1 A person acts knowingly or with knowledge if that
2 person acts with an awareness that his conduct is of a
3 particular nature or that a particular circumstance exists.
4 When used in the phrase unlawfully and knowingly enter and
5 remain in or upon premises, knowingly or with knowledge
6 means that the person acts with an awareness that they are
7 entering or remaining on premises unlawfully. Knowledge is
8 also established if a person acts intentionally.
9 A person acts recklessly if that person is aware
10 of and consciously disregards a substantial and
11 unjustifiable risk that a to go circumstance exists. The
12 risk must be of such nature and degree that disregarding
13 constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care
14 that a reasonable person would observe in this situation.
15 When used in the unlawfully and recklessly enter and remain
16 in or upon the premises, recklessly means that a person is
17 aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and
18 unjustifiable risk that they unlawfully enter or remain in
19 or on the premises. The risk must be of such nature and
20 degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation
21 from the standard of care that a reasonable person would
22 observe in the situation. Recklessness is also established
23 if a person acts intentionally or knowingly.
24 Now some definition. Enter or remain unlawfully,
25 defined as, A, to enter or remain in or on premises where

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
706
1 the premises, at the time of such entry or remaining are
2 not open to the public and when the entrance is not
3 otherwise licensed or privileged to do so; or B, failed to
4 leave emesis that are open to the public after being
5 lawfully directed to do so by the person in charge; or C,
6 to enter premises that are open to the public after being
7 lawfully directed not to enter the premises; or D, to enter
8 or remain in a motor vehicle when the entered is not
9 authorized to do so.
10 Open to the public is defined as follows, premises
11 that by their physical nature, function, custom, usage,
12 notice or lack thereof, or other circumstances at the time
13 would cause a reasonable person to believe that no
14 permission to enter or remain is required.
15 Person in charge is defined as a person or his or
16 her representative or employee who has lawful control of
17 premises by ownership, tenancy, official position, or other
18 legal relationship, and includes but is not limited to the
19 person or holder of a position designated as the person or
20 position holder in charge by the governor, board,
21 commission, or governing body of any political subdivision
22 of this state.
23 Premises is defined as including any building and
24 any real property, whether privately or publicly owned.
25 Although the State must prove beyond a reasonable

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
707
1 doubt that the crime occurred on or about the date alleged
2 in the charge, the State does not have to prove that the
3 crime occurred on the exact date alleged in the charge.
4 Oregon law provides that a person commits the
5 crime of Criminal Trespass in the second degree if the
6 person enters or remains unlawfully in a motor vehicle or
7 in or on premises. In this case, to establish the crime of
8 Criminal Trespass in the second degree, the State must
9 prove beyond a reasonable doubt the following elements.
10 First, that the act occurred on or about November
11 22, 2015; and second, that Barry Joe Stull unlawfully and
12 intentionally, knowingly or recklessly entered or remained
13 in or upon the premises at Emanuel Hospital.
14 And after closing arguments, then a copy of these
15 instructions will be given to you. You will, as I
16 instructed, choose one amongst your number to be the
17 foreperson. The foreperson will take custody of the
18 verdict forms I'm going to review with you now.
19 It says in the court of the state of Oregon -- in
20 the Circuit Court of the State of Oregon, for Multnomah
21 County, State of Oregon, Plaintiff, versus Barry Joe Stull,
22 Defendant, it says:
23 We the jury, duly impaneled and sworn in the
24 above-entitled cause, do find our verdicts upon the counts
25 submitted to us as follows:

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
708
1 Count I, Criminal Trespass in the second degree.
2 And then directly below that are the words not
3 guilty with a line before the words not guilty. If that is
4 your verdict by unanimous verdict, you would check that
5 line.
6 Across from that is the word guilty with a line
7 before the word guilty. And if that is your verdict by a
8 unanimous verdict, you would check that box or that line
9 before the word guilty.
10 And then the presiding juror would sign and date
11 the verdict form and then signal the -- Ms. Brown to come
12 get you.
13 All right. Mr. McMahon, your opening -- your
14 closing arguments, please.
16 May it please the Court, counsel, ladies and
17 gentlemen. As I said at the very outset, the facts of this
18 case, what this comes down to is what happened after Mr.
19 Stull was discharged from the emergency room. Mr. Stull
20 admits himself that he knew he was trespassing and couldn't
21 remain on the premises at Legacy Emanuel. Now where Mr.
22 Stull's version of events differ from the version of events
23 that you heard from all the other witnesses is what
24 happened after he was discharged. To hear Mr. Stull tell
25 the story, he was simply using the bathroom and walking

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
709
1 out. And he was accosted by security officers. They
2 proceed to yell at him, ignore his pleas as he said I'm
3 simply trying to leave, and then arrested him.
4 Now we turn towards the other witnesses. The
5 witnesses who aren't facing criminal charges, who have no
6 motivation or reason to lie, who saw anything other than
7 what they remember that occurred that night. And that
8 version is a different one. And the State will prove to
9 you that's the version -- what actually happened.
10 And according to Mr. Davies, what happened was he
11 saw Mr. Stull. Saw him walk out of the bathroom and walk
12 towards Emanuel. When Mr. Davies went to him and saw him,
13 Mr. Stull didn't say anything to the effect of him leaving.
14 I want a bus. I want the bus station. I'd just like to go
15 home. What Mr. Stull said, after he was asked to leave by
16 Mr. Davies, the person in charge of the premises, was no.
17 Mr. Stull says, "I'm not going to leave. I'm going to go
18 back and I'm going to sit in the lobby." He was repeatedly
19 asked, "Mr. Stull, please just leave." "No, I'm not going
20 to leave."
21 Mr. Stull refused to do so and tried to push past
22 Mr. Davies to get away. And at that point, Mr. Davies said
23 instead of walking him to the bus stop that Mr. Stull had
24 asked, providing him with a bus pass that Mr. Davies said
25 they would have offered him had he requested one, or taking

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
710
1 him to the nearest bus stop in the opposite direction that
2 Mr. Stull was heading, Mr. Stull became angry and
3 belligerent, flailing his arms, yelling, screaming, causing
4 a massive disturbance in the middle of the hallway next to
5 the children's hospital in the middle of the night.
6 You know, this may not seem like a big deal on its
7 face. But when you think about where it is and how this
8 hospital would have enough coverage, the fact remains that
9 Mr. Stull refused to leave, went limp, and laid down in the
10 middle of the hallway between the children's rooms, the
11 emergency department, and the hospital.
12 Mr. Stull refused to leave. All of the witnesses'
13 testimony corroborates that. Mr. Stull knew he couldn't be
14 there unless he was actively getting treatment and chose to
15 stay there are he was discharged.
16 Now you'll notice when I asked Mr. Stull some
17 questions, I was very clear. I asked him did you ever say
18 anything to the officer about wanting to leave? Did you
19 ever say anything to the security officer about wanting a
20 bus pass? Did you ever say anything about the fact that
21 you were trying to get to the front door? Did you ever say
22 anything to him about the fact that you were
23 (indiscernible)? And the reason I did that is because I
24 wanted to pin down and confirm the fact that Mr. Stull's
25 version of events cannot exist in the same universe of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
711
1 truth as that told by Mr. Davies.
2 Those two stories cannot possibly be true, because
3 Mr. Stull categorically denied that he said the things Mr.
4 Davies heard, without reservation, without hesitation. Mr.
5 Davies was equally as firm. He didn't say anything about a
6 bus station. He told me he wasn't going to leave. He said
7 he wasn't going to go out the door I was showing him. Only
8 one of those stories can be true.
9 It's not my job to say which of those stories are
10 true. It's not Mr. Stull's job. It's not the judge's job.
11 It is your job and your job alone to view both of those
12 stories and to determine which of those stories actually
13 occurred. And when you do that, I want you to pay careful
14 attention to what's at stake, the motivations and the
15 reasons why someone might give those certain version of
16 events.
17 On the one hand, you have the security officer
18 trying to do his job, get Mr. Stull to leave. And on the
19 other hand, you have Mr. Stull himself. You heard about
20 his actions that entire night. And you heard, more to the
21 point, the difference in how he describes his actions and
22 how others, people without any interest, without a stake,
23 how they described his actions.
24 You heard first from the EMT that he himself
25 called. Mr. Stull is saying I was just I was just -- I

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
712
1 mean let me just -- I just wanted to go to the hospital.
2 To hear him tell it, you could hear the victimization in
3 his voice, how pained he was to talk about it. That's in
4 stark contrast to what Mr. Beutler said. How when they
5 arrived they were so concerned for their own safety because
6 of how aggressive Mr. Stull was being, how much he was
7 yelling at them, the fact that he was kicking at the
8 monitor, screaming, yelling, ranting, trying to get into
9 their locked vehicle without their permission, that they
10 had to call in the police, place him in handcuffs, and they
11 give him a sedative that they said most will normally take,
12 lie down, and then fall asleep. Mr. Stull, instead of
13 lying down and falling asleep, had to be restrained in a
14 four-point harness, and continued to and yell and kick and
15 scream at those at those (indiscernible).
16 Pay attention to the difference there, how in Mr.
17 Stull's version of events, he's the victim. Everyone is
18 against him. He's just going to the hospital, not
19 threatening anyone. Paired difference to the difference
20 between how Mr. Stull tells the story of what happened at
21 the hospital. After he was discharged, he will simply walk
22 down. He told the officers, "I just want to leave. I'm
23 just for the bus." Contrast as to what the officers said
24 and saw, how they tried to stop him, direct him towards the
25 nearest exit, direct him towards where the bus was. But

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
713
1 instead of listening to them, he became angry. Instead of
2 leaving when asked by a person in charge, he flew into a
3 rage. He thrashed his arms. And finally, went limp and
4 dropped into the -- or causing a commotion in the early
5 hours of the morning of November 2rd -- November 25th.
6 And I will take a slight detour here to talk about
7 the date, because the date you heard was November 22nd, and
8 the witnesses testified that it happened in the early hour
9 morning -- early morning of the 25th. And as the judge
10 just described with you, you don't have to prove that it
11 happened exactly on the 22nd or exactly on the 23rd, just
12 that it occurred on or about that time. So don't get too
13 caught up.
14 Where you should direct your attention and what
15 warrants the most attention is whether or not Mr. Stull
16 intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly remained on the
17 premises, knowing that he had that exclusion and knowing
18 that he had been asked to leave.
19 Now Mr. Stull seems to sort of exist in his own
20 reality, but everyone is against him. Everyone is out to
21 get him. Now Mr. Stull, that doesn't absolve him from the
22 intentionality or the knowledge of his actions. Mr. Stull
23 knew he was excluded. Mr. Stull knew he was being told to
24 leave. And I don't doubt that Mr. Stull thinks he could
25 have been there, wishes he could have been there, thinks

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
714
1 that he's in the right. But that doesn't absolve him of
2 criminal liability, because he knew he wasn't supposed to
3 be there, and he knew someone else had told him he couldn't
4 be there. And he still chose to remain because he thought
5 he had a really good reason. That doesn't absolve him. He
6 knew he wasn't supposed to be there, and he stayed. He
7 intended to stay. He recklessly disregarded a risk, that
8 he wasn't supposed to be there and stayed.
9 Look at his intentions. Look at his actions, and
10 look at what he did. It doesn't matter if he gets up
11 here -- because I imagine he will get up here, and he's
12 going to tell you about that victim complex, how everyone
13 is out to get him, how the State is out to get him today.
14 But when you're listening to the story, pay careful
15 attention to what you have seen and observed and how that
16 differs from his own relay and how he presents this, how
17 his own version of reality differs so radically from what
18 people saw and heard that night. And when you strip away
19 his excuses and look only at his conduct, removing
20 sympathy, any consideration for punishment, any
21 consideration of where you might be concerned that he might
22 have a mental illness, when you strip all of that away,
23 Judge Frantz has instructed you --
24 MR. STULL: I object, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: It's --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
715
1 MR. STULL: There was no testimony at any point,
2 no evidence regarding a mental illness. And it is
3 completely unfair for closing arguments -- for the
4 defense -- or to have to even object to them to have to
5 think about sympathies regarding me having a mental
6 illness. I object.
7 THE COURT: All right. I'm going to instruct the
8 jury to disregard the characterization by Mr. McMahon, the
9 Deputy District Attorney. It should not be considered in
10 any way in your deliberations. There was testimony about
11 the ambulance attendance perspective, the need for sedative
12 drugs, that that is not appropriate to create a link from
13 that to a characterization of Mr. Stull having a mental
14 illness. So that shall be disregarded.
15 MR. MCMAHON: So don't even speculate about it.
16 Don't even speculate about sympathy. Don't even speculate
17 about functioning. Look only at his actions, and his
18 actions are clear. That night, knowing he couldn't be
19 there after he'd been released, and after being released
20 and again told to leave, told that he couldn't be there,
21 told that he needed to walk out of the building, he didn't
22 do it. That night, Mr. Stull, whether it be intentionally,
23 knowingly or recklessly -- and if you agree on any of those
24 levels, you agree on all of them. So if one of you finds
25 that he was intentionally doing it, one of you finds

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
716
1 knowingly, one of you finds recklessly. Recklessly is
2 included in knowing. Knowing is included in intentional.
3 So if you find the act of intentionally, you must find the
4 act of both knowingly and recklessly. It's one of those
5 odd little concepts. Sort of like a (indiscernible).
6 So on that night, it's clear that Mr. Stull
7 intentionally, knowingly, and recklessly to remain at the
8 premises of Legacy Emanuel. He knew he wasn't supposed to
9 be there. And in defiance of clear order given to him by a
10 person in charge, he chose to remain.
11 Those are the simple facts of the (indiscernible).
12 I would ask that you carefully consider those facts under
13 the law that Judge Frantz has given you and find Mr. Stull
14 guilty of Criminal Trespass in the second degree. Thank
15 you.
18 If I might start with the State's Exhibits in
19 order. I believe it's Number 2, Exhibit Number 1.
20 Thank you for your service. First, I wanted to
21 say some words. I want you to understand that
22 (indiscernible) but what I have to say. But I want you to
23 be especially attentive to what they said, the State,
24 meaning us actually, represented by Mr. McMahon, Deputy
25 District Attorney. Pay especially close attention to what

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
717
1 he has to say the last time, when I don't get to rebut
2 (indiscernible).
3 Those words I want to give you, and you might even
4 want to write these down, because you're going to have to
5 try to do this to somebody else. White, black, orange,
6 lemon, apple. Right there in the middle is the word
7 orange. White, black, orange, most of us would think I'm
8 talking about colors. I go the other direction, apple,
9 lemon, orange, most of us are going to think I'm talking
10 about food, especially a kind of food called a fruit.
11 So what we've had already, before you get into the
12 exhibits, is the mischaracterization that Mr. Stull
13 testified that he was accosted. Did you hear the word
14 accosted ever from me? Yes, you did, just now. You didn't
15 hear it from the witness. But why would something be so
16 mischaracterized? I said, obviously, I've had a number of
17 concerns, but the word accosted never was part of any
18 evidence in this trial. So why is he trying to get you to
19 believe it's a color when it's a fruit or it's a fruit when
20 it's a color? Because he's in invested. Who's invested?
21 Everybody that's getting paid to do their job and expected
22 to show up the next day. This is not my job, ladies and
23 gentlemen. I'm here representing myself. So we're going
24 to start with this.
25 Exhibit 1, the Trespass Exclusion notice. Well,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
718
1 what's it say so far? Birthday, I'll agree with that.
2 Height 5'10. I don't agree with that. But I'm not here to
3 challenge that. I'm here to point out the fine print on
4 the back that it says. You are prohibited from coming onto
5 the property or premises of any Legacy Health System
6 property at any time except in order to receive emergency
7 medical care. This doesn't count. It's an exception. If
8 I say all of you are welcome except one of you, one of you
9 isn't welcome. If this is an exclusion, and it doesn't
10 apply except for emergency treatment, it doesn't apply when
11 I'm going to the Legacy Hospital for emergency treatment.
12 I understand you might be confused about that,
13 because the testimony was and the evidence was that there
14 was a visit on Friday, November 20th, in and out. We don't
15 have security talking about well, when he was
16 (indiscernible).
17 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor.
18 MR. STULL: We don't have --
19 MR. MCMAHON: We don't have any --
20 THE COURT: Just recall your -- rely upon your own
21 memories as to what the evidence. The lawyers arguments
22 are not evidence. And so both attorneys are reminded and
23 admonished for arguing evidence or transforming them into
24 facts for the jurors to accept if they were not testified
25 to or introduced as exhibit or in any other way admitted

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
719
1 into evidence.
2 With that, you may continue, Mr. Stull.
3 MR. STULL: The point is this has an exception on
4 the back. It's in fine print, but it's there. This is
5 their evidence against me. And my defense is the defense
6 exception does not apply.
7 Okay. So that being said, how does somebody --
8 thank you. How is somebody authorized to be here get from
9 here to the property line?
10 And could I have Defense Exhibit -- the map?
11 Well, we know from the first Emanuel Hospital
12 security guard, who has now moved into this position, that
13 he's the one that that exception contained in that
14 document. He testified this is here somewhere. What are
15 the boundaries? What are the borders? What is the Legacy
16 property? And I will tell you with the State's Exhibit 1.
17 It says the property. It says the property. It doesn't
18 say the building. The property.
19 So what's the boundary for the property.
20 Testimony you'll recall was that the complex, although it
21 does have a building on the east side of Vancouver Avenue,
22 which wouldn't appear on this map -- we do know when I
23 asked the other security guard where the bus stop was, that
24 Vancouver Avenue would appear on this map. And I'll let
25 you refer to your own notes and these -- you'll have these

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
720
1 for your deliberation.
2 Boundaries you'll recall were Kirby Avenue to the
3 west, Fremont to the north, Vancouver to the east, and
4 North Russell to the south. Well, we could start with this
5 map. You don't have to look at the details. You'll have
6 this. I actually want you to pass this around amongst
7 yourselves when you're in deliberation, because this is a
8 defense exhibit. And what you will not find on this piece
9 of paper is those boundaries. The borders exceed the map.
10 This is such a large piece of property that when we look at
11 it, they can do an aerial view, and we still don't have
12 North Fremont, because North Fremont is over here
13 somewhere, and it's not on this map. We do have North
14 Vancouver. We don't have Russell. So there's a border --
15 south border that's not even on this map. And we do have
16 Kirby. And I'll tell you the importance of Kirby. It's on
17 the map.
18 And where is Kirby? Well, before I talk about
19 some inaccuracies in the testimony, let's talk about what
20 the Defendant and the State and their witnesses all agreed
21 on. We all agreed on this point right here. We agreed in
22 the general description, that there's an entrance to the
23 emergency room. We also know that the defense testimony
24 was that the ambulance came in and not through that -- we
25 know that the ambulance driver, the paramedic crew came in

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
721
1 through the emergency department but not, certainly,
2 through the entrance. And that the emergency department is
3 over here somewhere. It's on this map, the hospital's
4 accurate and to scale map. I would imagine it's accurate
5 and to scale. You can make your own inferences regarding
6 that. But there's no waiting room. And there's a
7 restroom. And then there's down the hall and down through
8 here. And we as heard the testimony, out to the main
9 entrance, which is, when they talked to the defense as a
10 witness, the Defendant said heading towards the bus stop.
11 Or as the security guard preferred, which probably would
12 set into thought that this guy is going the wrong way, is
13 you go out this entrance and you walk 60 yards until you
14 get to the far extreme which is on this map here, right by
15 the blue sticker. It says North Kirby Avenue. So you come
16 out this way. And then since you've left the property and
17 you can't come back, because emergency treatment only,
18 you've got to go all the way around. All the way around
19 all these buildings.
20 You go down to Russell, which isn't even on the
21 map. You go up to Fremont, which isn't even on the map.
22 And where are you going to get? To the bus stop, which is
23 on the map. And why is it on the map? Because TriMed is
24 smarter than we do (sic). They put the stop closest to the
25 entrance as they could. Why --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
722
1 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Facts not in
2 evidence. Speculation.
3 MR. STULL: I'll withdraw, Your Honor. I'll move
4 on.
5 The point is that you can see on this map one
6 thing that you can't see if you listen to the testimony.
7 You can see on the map the bus stop. You can't see on the
8 map the borders of the property. You can't see on the map
9 Kirby. You can't see how far you have to walk around to
10 Russell, because that doesn't even fit on this map. Look
11 how big these buildings are. This is a multistory
12 building. What is it, six stories, eight stories? That's
13 a big building. Look outside. We see buildings here,
14 right? Big buildings. Walk all the way around the complex
15 at midnight on Sunday night to get to the bus stop that's
16 right outside the door. Yes, that sounds like the way to
17 exit the emergency department where you've been released as
18 a patient. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. I'm not
19 laughing.
20 So we have a Trespass Exclusion and exception. We
21 have the same person who issued that give you the borders
22 that don't fit on the map. Then we have police officers.
23 Can't really contribute anything to this case. One thing,
24 they can contribute that there was nothing untoward about
25 the Defendant. No claims of screaming or kicking. No

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
723
1 struggles. Seated. Walked out. Got in the patrol car.
2 No statements. Not even a F bomb. No statements.
3 Okay. There's a conflict in the -- I noted that
4 the testimony was that this arrest took place at 3 a.m.
5 Well, not all the witnesses agree on everything. So I'm
6 going to suggest this as the testimony you heard, that it
7 was about midnight.
8 So we have a fellow. What was his name? Mr.
9 Davies. He worked for Emanuel Hospital security four
10 years. You know what he doesn't know. He doesn't know
11 that they have bus schedules in the lobby. He doesn't know
12 that there's a cab phone in the lobby. Can't observe that
13 there's a bus schedule. Can't observe that there's a cab
14 phone. He can observe the Defendant. They can't remember
15 conflicting testimony. Headed toward the bus the Defendant
16 said. Don't remember that he says.
17 Okay. What's the security camera footage?
18 MR. MCMAHON: Objection, Your Honor. Facts not in
19 evidence. Speculation.
20 THE COURT: Sustain the objection. There's no
21 testimony about presence or absence of security cameras.
22 MR. STULL: Yeah. I know that.
23 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. He
24 just commented on it again. I'd ask that the jury be
25 instructed not to consider that.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
724
1 MR. STULL: I'm finished with that point, Your
2 Honor. I'm moving on.
3 THE COURT: All right. The jury shall disregard
4 though any comments with respect to the security cameras.
5 MR. STULL: Where's the (indiscernible)? Where's
6 the sign? Where's the podium? Where's anything at all
7 that indicates that, at 12:00 at night on Sunday, you're
8 not supposed to go down this hallway. Thus, security
9 testified that there were no such notices. Nothing said
10 that that was a prohibited area. Nothing. Voice from
11 behind. Voice from behind. Not a pardon me, sir. You're
12 not allowed to go to that area.
13 Getting back to this apple, orange, black, white
14 issue. Look at the map. How's that (indiscernible)
15 hallways. You've heard the State closing argument. Right
16 next to the children's hospital there was noise in the
17 middle of the night. Sure. Not at all. But that being
18 said, that security guard mentioned going out to Randall
19 Children's Hospital. He wrote this and going out that way
20 somehow.
21 About the Defendant, Trespass Exclusion. Only
22 allowed to go for emergency room. Can't stay on the
23 premises. You know how that upsets them there. Go out the
24 main entrance of the hospital, which is identified on the
25 map. Check the bus schedule on the way through to make the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
725
1 determination, as the Defendant said, whether to wait here
2 for the bus or to walk down beyond Russell, which doesn't
3 fit on the map, which is one of the borders, beyond that
4 down to the Rose Garden and catch a MAX to go home. Home.
5 Where? 10852 Southeast Stark.
6 You might want to think well, gee, going out this
7 way to go home. Why would you want to stay? There's a
8 reason you'd want to stay. To get arrested. Why would you
9 want to get arrested? That would make what the security
10 guard did right. So we have things a little out of order.
11 We have the arrest first and he was wrong second. We have
12 no testimony from anybody but a single Emanuel Hospital
13 security guard, who after -- repeat this -- after four
14 years, doesn't even know there's cab phones in the lobby.
15 Now what else does that security guard tell us? I
16 was here. Oh. We walk people out every night. Well, most
17 of them come back. But we want people to find -- we want
18 to find out where they're going, so we can get them there.
19 Well, I'm going to the bus stop. Didn't hear that. What
20 about all those other people that get walked out? Did they
21 hear anything that they said about where they're going?
22 Oh, no, no, no. The correct way to go to the bus stop is
23 to go outside the wrong direction and go as far as you
24 possibly can. That doesn't sound like it fits in, one,
25 with the policy of transporting people by escorting them,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
726
1 as security does. We heard their testimony, that they will
2 escort people to the parking garage, escort people.
3 Now you're going to look at the -- we have the
4 jury instructions and you're going to follow them. I'll
5 just say that they were presented by the judge. And part
6 of that includes a mental state. And I'll get
7 (indiscernible) that. Thank you so much.
8 May I see the Legacy policy (indiscernible)?
9 Read what this says. To maintain individual
10 rights while protecting Legal Health patients, staff,
11 visitors, and the property. What is the goal of that
12 Trespass Exclusion policy? It's set right here. We have
13 this accepted into evidence. The first Emanuel Hospital
14 security guard said that this was, in fact, their policy.
15 And what is the purpose? Maintain individual rights and
16 some reasons and some way (indiscernible) protect the
17 patients, the staff, visitors' rights, and to protect the
18 property. I'll let you read these definitions on your own
19 and discuss them.
20 Another map. Same version of this. Once again,
21 north is that way on that map. And it is this way on this
22 map. So if we look here, this would be as the witness
23 testified, Vancouver Avenue to the far right. You remember
24 me having him establish that (indiscernible) right over
25 here is that bus stop. The witness testified on accessing

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
727
1 the property prior to coming by ambulance a couple days
2 earlier, coming in past the main entrance and making way
3 over to the emergency department here. Kirby, of course,
4 is over here somewhere. Russell is over here somewhere.
5 This is Vancouver right there, and there is the bus stop
6 right here in the parking garage.
7 So Emanuel Hospital security said that had the
8 Defendant gone out by the Randall Hospital, which is on the
9 map, that would have been closest to this bus stop.
10 Defendant said the main entrance is closest to that bus
11 stop. So we have this. This is indoors. This, of course,
12 is outdoors. And who amongst you thinks that the security
13 guards are going to let an excluded person go over to a
14 parking garage as a shortcut when they won't let that
15 person walked down the hall.
16 Now there are some -- we don't know what the
17 initial -- other than the security guard testifying a
18 coworker identified the Defendant as somebody having a
19 Trespass Exclusion, we don't know if -- since he wasn't
20 able to observe the bus passes in the lobby, where he
21 worked in that building or that complex for four years. He
22 wasn't able to observe that. So we really don't know how
23 observant that individual that testified is. But he did
24 say that he approached the Defendant from behind. There
25 was some encounter and communication. And in effort to get

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
728
1 the Defendant to leave the edaphus, yet, not the property,
2 by the fire doors, by the C bank elevators. You have that
3 in your notes. Share it with the other jurors. And
4 remember that if you differ, you might differ. So you'll
5 have to work that all out. And that's why we have a jury
6 system.
7 But the C bank elevators are on the -- that --
8 those exhibits, on those maps. You can see where that is.
9 Of course, C bank elevators, over here, this would be
10 Fremont, which isn't on the map, any of them. Over here is
11 Russell, which isn't on the map. Over here is Vancouver.
12 Kind of the border of the map, the margin of that paper
13 makes it. And then Kirby, which you can see on that
14 somewhat bird's eye view. You heard the witness says the
15 fire exits are for emergencies.
16 Now let me give you the timeline and move on with
17 this before you decide whether I'm an ugly duckling or a
18 beautiful swan. Can't be both. It's either one.
19 (indiscernible) imagining that I saw this (indiscernible)
20 persecute -- oh, it's a terrible victim. Do you hear a
21 victim tone in this voice? What was that about?
22 Well, that was about, if you recall, about 8:01, I
23 think, p.m., Sunday night, November 23, 2015, which, in a
24 couple of minutes -- less than five. I think it's actually
25 five. Oh, here it is. It is three. 8:04 p.m., ambulance

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
729
1 arrived on the scene. Didn't transport. He doesn't know
2 what central pain syndrome is. Didn't inquire. Didn't
3 make a phone call. In fact, he testified -- the
4 (indiscernible) paramedic I'll refer to him as. We only
5 had one. He testified that when he went to pick up the
6 patient, the patient said he had central pain syndrome.
7 And when he said what's that, the patient wouldn't address
8 him. He also said that person was not cooperative.
9 Well, I've got a quote here. I want to make sure
10 I get this right. "If he doesn't get the answer that he's
11 seeking" -- where did I put that. It doesn't really
12 matter. The point is I don't have to expect
13 (indiscernible). He said when asked to define what he
14 means when he says the word uncooperative, that he doesn't
15 get the answer that he's seeking. Central pain syndrome,
16 what's that?
17 Well, what do we know about this guy? He started
18 work in August 2015. This happened in November 2015.
19 What's his training and experience? Well, at that point,
20 count the months, August to November. Well, what did he
21 have to do to qualify there? Well, he had a year-and-a-
22 half on-the-job training or on hand -- hands-on training is
23 the word he used. And he had an AA degree. So we're
24 looking at someone with a two-year degree.
25 MR. MCMAHON: Your Honor, I'd object. This is not

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
730
1 relevant to the matter at bar. And Mr. Stull has been
2 instructed that he's not to argue relating this matter or
3 the qualification or the nature of the diagnosis made by
4 the EMT.
5 THE COURT: That is correct, Mr. Stull.
6 MR. STULL: Oh, no. I was just talking about how
7 the Defendant testified that the condition is worsened by
8 emotional stress.
9 The AMR paramedic testified that he was presented
10 with a wrist bracelet, with exit paperwork that said
11 transport to Emanuel Hospital. What happened with that
12 paperwork? Oh. They were disorganized. I had to pick
13 them up is what he testified. They weren't disorganized.
14 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. Facts
15 not in evidence.
16 THE COURT: Well, the witness did testify that the
17 papers were very disorganized in the binder. Continue.
18 MR. STULL: Well, let's get back to that doesn't
19 answer questions the way the answers are expected.
20 Somebody says what's central syndrome mean, and you hand
21 them a bunch of documents that are --
22 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. We're
23 clearly in irrelevant territory here. I would ask Mr.
24 Stull move on.
25 THE COURT: Yes. Mr. Stull, this is outside the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
731
1 limits of the Court's ruling as to what is relevant in this
2 case. You have established, through your testimony, which
3 you have told others about the condition in which you found
4 yourself in --
5 MR. STULL: Sure.
6 THE COURT: -- the physical condition and the
7 reason for you going to the hospital --
8 MR. STULL: Sure.
9 THE COURT: -- and the reason for you returning to
10 the hospital.
11 MR. STULL: Sure.
12 THE COURT: And that's the limit of the discussion
13 on those issues.
14 MR. STULL: Oh, that's fine.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 MR. STULL: We know that. But what we need to
17 know is kicking in the ambulance. No testimony there was
18 kicking in the ambulance. Kicking and screaming in the
19 ambulance. You heard that in closing argument. There's no
20 kicking and screaming in the ambulance. There's no kicking
21 and screaming, that the police officer is going to take an
22 action -- you think that the police wouldn't have taken
23 action if there was something done that was actually a
24 crime in their presence?
25 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. Objection, Your Honor. Facts

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
732
1 not in evidence. Relevance.
2 MR. STULL: What would you have -- Your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Well, you can't speculate.
4 MR. STULL: I'm not speculating. I'm stating the
5 facts that came into evidence. I'm doing closing argument.
6 THE COURT: I'm just going to instruct the jury to
7 rely upon your own memories as to what the evidence was.
8 And you will have the opportunity to remember what the
9 facts are when you're in the jury room.
10 Continue.
11 MR. STULL: So what we do know, the witness
12 testified that that experience was, in fact, torture. And
13 that one finally offered a ride out of that stressful
14 situation --
15 MR. MCMAHON: Your Honor, I would raise my
16 objection. If -- we need to take this up outside the
17 presence of the jury. Mr. Stull has been repeatedly
18 advised that he can't go down this path.
20 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I'd like to get my
21 statement in before he objects to it. He keeps cutting me
22 off. I'm trying to do closing arguments. I'm a person
23 with a disability. This is hard enough.
24 THE COURT: Right. Right. Just a moment, Mr.
25 Stull.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
733
1 MR. STULL: So I am --
2 THE COURT: You're exceeding --
3 MR. STULL: I am asking the jury to be removed,
4 because I really have to address some issues.
5 THE COURT: All right. Let's take the jury out
6 for a moment, please.
7 (Jury exits.)
8 THE COURT: All right. Mr. McMahon, you want to
9 state your objection to the line of argument that Mr. Stull
10 is presenting for the jury?
11 MR. MCMAHON: Yes, Your Honor. Mr. Stull is going
12 into significant debt detail about his opinions about the
13 nature of treatment by the AMR, by the manner in which he
14 was treated, his condition, if -- what he is essentially
15 calling torture. As Mr. Stull has been instructed
16 repeatedly by the Court, that is not germane to the issue
17 at hand. And that's why I've been objecting repeatedly,
18 because this is something that Mr. Stull has been
19 instructed he cannot argue. And he needs to focus on -- is
20 the actual trespass, what occurred after the discharge.
21 And he's spent I think almost 15 minutes now -- well, I
22 guess probably the bulk of the last 15 minutes arguing
23 about something that the judge -- that Your Honor has
24 instructed him he cannot. And at this point, it's
25 repetitive. It's not relevant. And I'd ask that he be

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
734
1 instructed to keep his argument to the facts that the Court
2 has ruled irrelevant.
3 THE COURT: And, Mr. Stull, I allowed some
4 latitude for you to speak (indiscernible) testimony about
5 your having gone to the hospital on Friday, November 20th,
6 and the reason for that from your perspective, the physical
7 condition in which you found yourself.
8 MR. STULL: I've done that, Your Honor. Thank
9 you.
10 THE COURT: And --
11 MR. STULL: And I'm through with that. I
12 addressed that at the argument.
13 THE COURT: Right. And to speak and to elicit
14 testimony and provide testimony as to what you were
15 parenting physically that led to the call by you to be
16 transported by ambulance to the hospital for emergency
17 medical treatment. But my earlier ruling can't find your
18 examination and cross-examination to this -- setting out
19 those bare facts and not going into, in depth, other
20 elements having to do with your analysis and assessment of
21 that -- of the disability that, as you have referred to it,
22 that's created by what you referred to as central pain
23 syndrome.
24 MR. STULL: Oh, certainly.
25 THE COURT: And you have now done that. You keep

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
735
1 widening the (indiscernible) in this, the way in which you
2 are arguing your case. And that's beyond the scope of what
3 the Court allowed when it ruled on the motion in limine.
4 And so, you have established what I allowed you to
5 establish. And now you need to go on to what happened on
6 the date of the incident, November 22 and November 23, once
7 you were -- once your emergency medical treatment had
8 concluded and what happened after that. And you've already
9 addressed some of that --
10 MR. STULL: Okay.
11 THE COURT: -- in the beginning. But now you're
12 beginning -- you're backpedaling into a analysis of what
13 you were experiencing, what people's reactions were to you,
14 and what you were experiencing when you were being
15 transported by the ambulance, and so forth. And --
16 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I think I -- with all due
17 respect --
18 THE COURT: I've provided you a lot of latitude --
19 MR. STULL: -- the State's --
20 THE COURT: -- for you to do that.
21 MR. STULL: -- closing argument characterized
22 kicking and screaming in the ambulance, and there's
23 absolutely no testimony to that.
24 THE COURT: And they have to rely, as I cautioned
25 them several times, to rely upon their own memories as to

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
736
1 what the evidence is and not -- the lawyers' arguments are
2 not evidence. But you still are required -- and that
3 that -- I've made -- given that cautionary instruction with
4 respect to both Mr. McMahon's argument and with respect to
5 your argument. Also, with the characterization of a mental
6 illness, I clearly told the jury that that was not part of
7 the evidence and that link could not be created.
8 MR. STULL: I --
9 THE COURT: And they were to disregard that.
10 MR. STULL: I agree with you, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: But the same holds true that there are
12 certain limitations on the evidence that you could present
13 and, therefore, can use as a basis for argument. And
14 you're going beyond the bounds of what the Court allowed.
15 And you've already covered most of it --
16 MR. STULL: Yes.
17 THE COURT: -- already with -- over the objections
18 of Mr. McMahon. He allowed some. And I cautioned the jury
19 as to other aspects of it. But the Court is not going to
20 allow any further assessment, exploitation, analysis on
21 what you were experiencing and how you were treated on --
22 from the time of your call until your arrival at the
23 hospital for medical (indiscernible) medical treatment.
25 THE COURT: Only now as to what occurred. If

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
737
1 there's anything additional you want to add as to what
2 occurred after your medical treatment was concluded.
3 MR. STULL: However, Your Honor, we do have, as
4 closing argument, the characterization that the Defendant
5 was given a sedative. And that sedative didn't work. It
6 worked on other people, but look at this guy. He's out of
7 control. Now I should be able to, as the Defendant, say
8 well, there was no kicking in the ambulance. And the drug
9 didn't work because that's one of the products of central
10 pain syndrome. And that's actually the evidence which was
11 bolstered by the admission and treatment at the emergency
12 department, which I have nothing to contribute, because I
13 was, in fact, unconscious.
14 THE COURT: You -- yeah. I will allow you to --
15 MR. STULL: So I don't know what happened at the
16 emergency department.
17 THE COURT: -- wrap up the subject. I will you to
18 remind the jury of the evidence that did come in, that the
19 level of sedation did not have the effect of sedating you
20 to the same level as it did -- as it does others. I think
21 that was the testimony.
22 MR. STULL: So if you'll bear with me only for a
23 moment, Your Honor. This is not good for my neurological
24 condition he placed in a situation where, one -- with all
25 due respect, I disagree with you saying that it doesn't

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
738
1 matter that I'm a person with a disability. And it also
2 sets it up for Mr. McMahon to --
3 Excuse me, Mr. Kelley.
4 -- to do this to me. When I'm up there trying to
5 closing argument, and I get one of these from Mr. McMahon,
6 because he's objecting, because he thinks I'm trying to get
7 the camel's nose under the tent to the prohibited
8 discussion as to a person with a disability. You've
9 excluded my defense as a person with a disability, and
10 that's wrong in my opinion.
11 THE COURT: Well, that's been ruled on.
12 MR. STULL: And I'm going to move beyond that.
13 But, however, if I'm going to specifically direct the
14 mischaracterizations that aren't supported by the evidence
15 and are saying that oh, look at this, I have to be able to
16 defend myself in closing arguments against this, Your
17 Honor. That's why we have them.
18 THE COURT: But within the limits of the rules of
19 evidence as to what you may argue that's relevant in this
20 case.
22 THE COURT: And I --
23 MR. STULL: But it is relevant, and it is
24 appropriate during closing arguments, if the State is going
25 to say that he was given a drug, and he didn't even work on

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
739
1 him, because he's such a horrible person, I should be able
2 to say and that is exactly why I called 911.
3 THE COURT: Okay. Is that the extent of what is
4 left for you to argue on that point?
5 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I would like to get me out
6 of this court.
7 THE COURT: Oh, no, no.
8 MR. STULL: That's what I want to do. So --
9 THE COURT: No. Mr. Stull, you're not answering
10 my question. Is what you just said the extent of what you
11 wish to conclude your argument on this point, in response
12 to what Mr. McMahon said --
13 MR. STULL: Your --
14 THE COURT: -- as to what the witnesses said about
15 how you were behaving, that you were uncontrollable and
16 they provided -- and they injected you with some sedative
17 medication. So what you've just stated with the respect to
18 countering or explaining what Mr. McMahon has brought up in
19 his closing argument, is that the extent of this line of
20 argument, or is there more? Because I don't want to be in
21 a position --
22 MR. STULL: No. Your --
23 THE COURT: of sending the jury out. You've --
24 I've given you great latitude to discuss these, disability
25 and so forth, throughout your closing. But there comes a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
740
1 point where it's just beyond the parameters. And so, I
2 want to know what it is you still intend to argue.
3 MR. STULL: Here's my argument. I made a 911
4 call, and I expect to take 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes,
5 maybe even a half-hour to get to the emergency room, and
6 that didn't happen. It was almost a half-hour before I
7 even left. And then I got to the emergency room, and I
8 wanted to go home. And Mr. McMahon is arguing no, I didn't
9 want to go home. I wanted to stay at the hospital. And
10 I'm going to say that no, none of that is true. I wanted
11 to get to the emergency room and go to -- I thought I was
12 trying to save my life, actually. Instead, I had this
13 horrible encounter. I got drugged. I wake up in the
14 hospital, and I try to get out of there. And that's all I
15 wanted to do was get the bus and go home.
16 THE COURT: Okay. All right. You wanted to have
17 the emergency medical treatment. You were admitted to --
18 MR. STULL: Instead, I got this horrible -- excuse
19 me for cutting you off, Your Honor.
20 THE COURT: You --
21 MR. STULL: Excuse me. I got a horrible,
22 emotionally -- I testified it was torture, and I will stand
23 by that.
24 THE COURT: Okay. You've already testified and
25 you've already --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
741
1 MR. STULL: I ready did that.
2 THE COURT: -- argued that. You've already argued
3 that.
4 MR. STULL: So all of this talk about the
5 treatment and getting up to the emergency room is only me
6 trying to get home from the hospital, because this case
7 involves what happened when I came out of the restroom at
8 the emergency room. In the States argument is I wanted to
9 stay there. I refused to leave. And I'm saying no, I was
10 doing everything I could do in my capacity with my
11 resources to go home.
12 THE COURT: And that's what you need to focus on
13 in your closing argument, what you did --
14 MR. STULL: And I am by saying it -- I wasn't
15 planned on being drugged. I wasn't planning -- this was
16 not like the ordinary Friday morning trip in an out, what
17 the jury has already heard about. I went in Friday. Came
18 out without a hitch. I did not do that on Sunday. And I'm
19 just simply trying to, one, counter the
20 mischaracterizations. And I realize the State has the -- I
21 don't know if we use the vociferously prosecute its case.
22 But yeah, the lawyers have to vociferously -- they have to
23 fight really hard. And I'm trying to fight really hard,
24 Your Honor. And what I'm saying is -- I use Mr. Kelley as
25 an example. I cannot do that because I'm a person with a

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
742
1 disability. And he's sniping me, Your Honor. He's hitting
2 me from behind. He's interrupting me. And it's hurtful to
3 me as a person with a disability. And that's why I didn't
4 want to have this -- my voice is up right now. This is not
5 fair to me. You can't trigger my --
6 THE COURT: Mr. Stull. Mr. Stull, just --
7 MR. STULL: You --
8 THE COURT: Well, just take a moment.
9 MR. STULL: You all cannot trigger my disability
10 and hold me at fault for having my disability triggered.
12 MR. STULL: You can see that I'm calm. I can
13 object to your decisions. I can characterize situations.
14 What I don't need to do is become loud. I do not need to
15 become angry. I do not need to become anything that is a
16 genuine --
17 THE COURT: Tell me -- Mr. Stull --
18 MR. STULL: -- product of my disability and the
19 way it --
21 MR. STULL: -- works with my frustration.
22 THE COURT: Tell me what it is you have left to
23 argue, so we don't have to send the jury out again. What
24 is your line of argument from this point forward, already
25 having introduced a great deal of argument that's been

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
743
1 objected to? And I've provided latitude. I've sustained
2 some of it and reminded the jury to remember the facts.
3 But it is certainly bordering on your trying to back door a
4 defense here of -- because of a disability, that you were
5 unlawfully arrested. And that's not been allowed by the
6 Court in my prior ruling.
7 MR. STULL: However, I was a patient that was
8 treated and discharged. I was also a patient that woke up
9 several hours after being sedated involuntarily.
10 THE COURT: Okay. So can you start with that?
11 You've already established, in response to what Mr. McMahon
12 stated, that you objected to, that you were out of control,
13 that you were kicking in the ambulance. And I told the
14 jury to recall or rely upon your own memories. That you
15 were sedated. All right. And then you were -- you
16 testified released -- I can't recall if you actually
17 testified or you just said in one of your arguments about
18 your having -- not having a memory for several hours and
19 then you woke up. And isn't that where you need to start
20 this? You've established everything else up to that point.
21 So let's move on to that aspect of your argument
22 and not simply retread what you've already argued to the
23 jury, which is that you were suffering from central pain
24 syndrome, and it's the reason you called the ambulance.
25 The ambulance came. There was a not pleasant back and

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
744
1 forth with the ambulance attendants from your perspective.
2 They were, from their perspective, trying to assist you by
3 sedating you, to control you. From your perspective, they
4 were acting out of bounds and how they were treating and
5 sedating you rather than listening to what you had to say
6 about what your physical ailment was, which was the central
7 pain syndrome. That has been covered here. So now --
8 MR. STULL: Or if you mind me interrupting -- if
9 you don't mind me interrupting, or the fact that I was
10 asked a question, what's central pain syndrome, which I
11 answered by providing the documentation.
12 THE COURT: All right. So, but all this gets you
13 to the hospital, where you --
14 MR. STULL: To get out of there, to go home.
15 THE COURT: Right. Gets you to the hospital where
16 you are allowed to be to access emergency medical
17 treatment. So nobody is contesting that you had a right to
18 be at the hospital, regardless of what kind of disagreement
19 or verbal exchange or sedation or kicking of monitors
20 happened before that. You had a right to go to the
21 hospital, and you were taken to the hospital. So now the
22 issue is what happened when you were discharged from the
23 hospital. And that's where you need to focus now --
24 MR. STULL: I certainly will.
25 THE COURT: -- on your argument. All right?

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
745
1 MR. STULL: I will.
2 THE COURT: So let's bring the jury in.
3 MR. STULL: All right. Thank you, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Yeah.
5 (Pause)
7 (Jury enters.)
8 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you may
9 continue.
10 MR. STULL: So we do know this. The patient that
11 arrived here had been sedated at Stark Firs Trailer Park.
12 And we heard testimony that that sedation works differently
13 on this individual than others. I believe the
14 characterization was countless others, which was validated
15 at least by the admission as a patient into the emergency
16 department.
17 So we know from the police testimony, somewhere
18 here, somewhere in this part of the complex (indiscernible)
19 say that he found a person who was sitting. We heard
20 testimony that the Defendant went limp after being
21 arrested, after saying some protesting kind of things. But
22 the -- they effected an arrest. No screaming, yelling,
23 kicking, those types of things. So I want you to keep that
24 in mind.
25 And what this really comes down to is the State

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
746
1 saying that didn't mean leaving. It meant something else.
2 And we can look at 20/20 hindsight. Security guard
3 testified that well, that main entrance is locked from
4 inside after certain hours. No signage that no one
5 (indiscernible) on that. We know that there was no
6 signage. And we do know that fire exits are opened from
7 the inside. So kind of hit and miss, I suppose, with
8 whether a door would actually open. But that's --
9 convention suggests that the fire exit (indiscernible)
10 clear and you don't open them for a reason. Some of them
11 are alarmed.
12 So we have a situation where, getting back to that
13 C elevator, what was the choice. Now going to Kirby
14 appeared to be the wrong choice. Perhaps if I would have
15 exited, gone down to Kirby, gone away around the complex,
16 we wouldn't be here today. I don't know. November, gym
17 shorts and T-shirt, it's a nice time for a long time, but
18 perhaps not.
19 So the most important thing is, getting back to
20 those five words, apple, lemon, orange, black and white,
21 white, black, orange, lemon, apple. Perspective. Security
22 guard, he thinks that way is the way to go. Defendant
23 thinks that way to go. Okay. You'll (indiscernible)
24 really think about motives. That's all part of the
25 elements, if somebody did -- unlawfully did something or

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
747
1 person acted with a conscious objective to unlawfully enter
2 or remain upon the premises. And the -- what the State and
3 the security guard -- or they're both on the same side
4 here. The security guard affected the citizen's arrest.
5 The State is prosecuting the case.
6 They say that after all this time, whatever it
7 took to get in and out of that emergency room that night,
8 on Sunday night, the Defendant didn't want to go home.
9 Didn't want to go to the bus stop. He wanted to stay at
10 the hospital. Why? What's it going to serve any interest
11 of the Defendant to delay getting home on a night that's --
12 the weather is going to be in the 30s. Why wait till the
13 buses stop running? Why buses -- why wait till the MAXes
14 aren't running? Why? What benefit? Who benefits from
15 that?
16 No, no. This Defendant, he -- no, no. This guy
17 is going to stay. Why would he stay? Well, of course,
18 he's staying, because he wants to get arrested, because he
19 knows that he's got a Trespass Exclusion. Of course. Ugly
20 duckling, beautiful swan. What's it going to be, folks?
21 It's going to be this. It's going to be the burden of
22 proof that the sides this case.
23 We have different standards, different types of
24 cases. But what you heard in those other cases might not
25 be applicable. But when we say beyond a reasonable doubt,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
748
1 think about how serious that is and what are the ways to
2 compare that. And I heard this at another court. I was
3 sitting and I heard this as closing argument. It was
4 really interesting. You have civil standard, and we have
5 clear and convincing evidence. And then we have a higher
6 burden, the burden the State has to prove, beyond a
7 reasonable doubt. That's more than clear and convincing
8 evidence.
9 Under the standard of clear and convincing
10 evidence, we can have termination of parental rights. We
11 can terminate an individual's right to be a parent with the
12 lower hurdle that the State has to overcome to convict the
13 Defendant in this case. It doesn't mean no doubt.
14 Certainly, that are exceptions (indiscernible) testimony is
15 that it happened at some point. But the State has to prove
16 all of the elements of the crime. I don't think the State
17 can meet that.
18 No matter what tricks I'm going to call them,
19 black, white, orange, colors, apple, lemon, orange, fruit,
20 I can't wait to hear what's going to happen next. Thank
21 you for your service. I know that regardless of the
22 verdict that you render, that it's a product of the
23 information that you've been subjected to in this room and
24 these processes. And I don't fault you either way, because
25 I'm representing myself, because I have (indiscernible).

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
749
1 Thank you.
2 THE COURT: Rebuttal.
3 MR. MCMAHON: Thank you, Your Honor. And may it
4 please the Court, counsel, ladies and gentlemen. This is
5 the last time you're going to hear from anyone today. All
6 right. After I'm done here, and I will be brief, this is
7 (indiscernible). And it's a simple decision. You need to
8 decide who to believe. That's your job. Not my job to
9 tell you who to believe. It's not Mr. Stull's job to tell
10 you who to believe. It's not even the Court's job to tell
11 you who to believe.
12 There are two stories here today, and you're going
13 to have to pick one. You're going to have to pick a story.
14 Told by Mr. Stull, that he called an ambulance. He wasn't
15 upset. He's certainly not imposing the one imposing a
16 threat to those ambulance drivers. That they took him to
17 the hospital, and he went to the bathroom, tried to leave.
18 He told the security officers I'm just trying to get to the
19 bus. And then, for some reason -- and this was never
20 really explicated by Mr. Stull. And I think it's the apple
21 if you think about it. That Mr. Stull the security
22 officers I'm trying to get to the bus. Instead of letting
23 him go to the bus, they just handcuff him, placed him under
24 arrest, took him into custody, sat with him on the floor
25 between Children's Hospital in the emergency room for no

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
750
1 real reason. That they didn't just let him leave. That
2 they stopped him from leaving and handcuffed
3 (indiscernible). That he's the victim here. That everyone
4 is out to get him. That's Mr. Stull's version of events.
5 But then you have the version (indiscernible) --
6 and at this point, I don't believe it's a story. I believe
7 it's what actually happened. But it's your job to decide
8 that's what happened. Told by, first, (indiscernible)
9 Dotson, that he initiated a trespass to Mr. Stull, told him
10 he couldn't be back there unless it was for emergency
11 treatment. That he had to leave after being discharged.
12 That that ambulance driver pick up and agitated
13 dangerous Mr. Stull, took him to the hospital, and that at
14 that hospital, Mr. Davies saw him by the bathroom, walked
15 up to him, and asked him to leave. When Mr. Stull was
16 asked to leave, Mr. Stull said no. They go back to the
17 lobby (indiscernible) sit down and refused to leave when
18 repeatedly requested to do so by Mr. Davies. Mr. Davies
19 said if he had said he was going to the bus, I would have
20 walked him there. If he had said he needed a bus pass, I
21 would have given him a bus pass. I would have walked him
22 off. All I wanted was for him not to be here, for the
23 disruption to go away, for business to continue
24 (indiscernible).
25 Those are two versions of (indiscernible) story.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
751
1 Only one can be true. Mr. Stull conclusively said that
2 everything in this case, that it was a fabrication.
3 Couldn't possibly be true. So your job now is to go back,
4 to weigh those two stories. And I would ask that you not
5 only weigh the stories but who's telling them, why they're
6 telling them, the motivations they had. Weigh the
7 motivation of Mr. Davies, or the ambulance driver, or Mr.
8 Dotson against the motivation of Mr. Stull.
9 We've seen time and time again how Mr. Stull will
10 direct towards the outcome he wants. But, ladies and
11 gentlemen, it's your job to strip away what Mr. Stull
12 wants, what Mr. Stull thinks, and look only at Mr. Stull's
13 actions and the law. And when you look at those actions,
14 compare those two versions (indiscernible) same universe of
15 fruit, and apply that to the law that Judge Frantz has
16 provided. It's the State's position that there's only one
17 answer. In the State would request that you carefully
18 liberate and find Mr. Stull guilty of Criminal Trespass in
19 the second degree. Thank you.
20 (Bailiff sworn and takes charge of the jury.)
21 THE COURT: All right. Ms. Brown will now escort
22 you into the jury room with the exhibits that have been
23 received in evidence and a copy of the instructions. You
24 may begin your deliberations.
25 (Jury exits.)

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
752
1 THE COURT: I'd ask them to stay close by.
2 Mr. McMahon, you can return -- or, Mr. McMahon,
3 are you housed in this building?
4 MR. MCMAHON: I am. I'm going to go ahead. I'm
5 asking Mr. Kelley to write down his cell number. I'm going
6 to write down my cell number.
7 THE COURT: Yeah. All right.
8 MR. MCMAHON: I'm here temporarily
9 (indiscernible).
10 THE COURT: Okay. But everybody will be within
11 five minutes of returning to court if there's a question or
12 verdict or whatever that might be.
15 MR. MCMAHON: Yeah. Yes.
16 THE COURT: Close by.
17 (Recess taken from 3:45 p.m. to 4:58 p.m.)
18 THE COURT: Be seated.
19 Has the jury reached a verdict?
20 THE FOREPERSON: Your Honor, we have.
21 THE COURT: All right. If you would please pass
22 the verdict form to my clerk.
23 And the verdict form -- I'm reading the caption --
24 read as follows. We the jury, duly impaneled and sworn in
25 the above entitled cause, do find our verdicts upon the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
753
1 count submitted to us as follows:
2 Count I, Criminal Trespass in the second degree,
3 guilty. Signed by the presiding juror and dated today.
4 Is this a unanimous verdict?
5 THE FOREPERSON: It is.
6 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you can always
7 have -- I just asked if it's a unanimous verdict, which is
8 required by law. You always have the opportunity, if you
9 wish, to have the jury polled, for me to ask them if this
10 was their verdict and have them raise their hand, polling
11 the jury.
12 MR. STULL: Yes, Your Honor. It's my policy, so
13 yes.
14 THE COURT: All right. If your verdict was
15 guilty, would you please raise your hand?
16 All right. All six jurors have raised their hand.
17 It is a valid verdict.
20 All right. Members of the jury, thank you for
21 your service, for your patience. I know there are many
22 times you spent quite a bit of time in the jury room. We
23 were all here very promptly. And I hope you have a good
24 year, good new year, good rest of the year and stay warm.
25 So thank you. You're discharged. And of course, you will

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
754
1 not need to come back tomorrow. Thank you.
2 (Jury exits.)
3 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you're entitled
4 to wait two days for sentencing or you can give up that
5 right and go ahead today. It's up to you.
6 MR. STULL: May I consult with Mr. --
7 THE COURT: Sure.
8 MR. STULL: -- Kelley for a moment?
9 (Counsel confer.)
10 MR. MCMAHON: Out of candor to the Court and Mr.
11 Stull --
13 MR. MCMAHON: Out of candor to the Court and Mr.
14 Stull, I'd be asking, essentially, for one or two days.
15 And then given that Mr. Stull has time in, even if the
16 Court were to impose that and not just simply sit in the
17 discharge, it's my understanding that Mr. Stull would be --
18 THE COURT: Is that -- it's a credit for time
19 served or is that a discharge?
20 MR. MCMAHON: It would be granted for credit for
21 time served no matter what the imposition is. And we have
22 no further --
23 THE COURT: Correct.
24 MR. MCMAHON: -- evidence.
25 THE COURT: He's already served in excess of the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
755
1 statutory maximum.
2 MR. MCMAHON: Yeah.
3 THE COURT: But I still have to give him the
4 right.
5 MR. MCMAHON: Absolutely, Your Honor. I just want
6 to --
7 THE COURT: Right.
8 (Counsel confer.)
9 MR. STULL: Your Honor, we do have a hearing in
10 another courtroom tomorrow.
11 (Counsel confer.)
12 MR. STULL: Your Honor, I'll speak freely. Given
13 the verdict was adverse to me, and given that I'm
14 unsatisfied with the Court's rulings on my defenses, I am
15 going to exercise my right to appear later for sentencing,
16 because that's -- it's my right.
17 THE COURT: Absolutely.
18 MR. STULL: And Mr. Kelley is my legal advisor.
19 And if you want to arrange a schedule that doesn't conflict
20 with anything.
21 MR. MCMAHON: I likely will not be able to be
22 here. I'll have someone else in my office cover the
23 hearing.
24 MR. STULL: And I have no objection to what --
25 whoever deputy -- whatever Deputy District Attorney --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
756
1 THE COURT: No. They can substitute.
2 MR. STULL: -- or Mr. Underhill himself --
3 THE COURT: They can --
4 MR. STULL: -- who wants to appear against me.
5 MR. KELLEY: I know that Mr. Stull will be in
6 court tomorrow morning on a different case. So I know that
7 he and I will both be in court. I don't know if that might
8 work for the Court.
9 THE COURT: Well, not tomorrow morning but 2:00
10 tomorrow afternoon.
11 MR. KELLEY: Okay. Most of my work is in
12 Hillsboro these days, Your Honor. So I do need to figure
13 this out.
14 (Pause)
15 MR. KELLEY: I can do that.
16 THE COURT: 2:00 tomorrow afternoon.
17 MR. KELLEY: 2:00.
19 MR. MCMAHON: 2:00 tomorrow you said?
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 MR. MCMAHON: Okay. I may actually be able to
22 make that. So --
23 THE COURT: All right. All right. Thank you,
24 counsel.
25 Thank you, Mr. Stull. I'll see you tomorrow at

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
757
1 2:00.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
758
3 I, Antoinette M. Franks, court-approved
4 transcriber, certify that the foregoing is a full and
5 correct transcript
10
11 Antoinette M. Franks, CET-683
14 Salem, OR 97302
15 970.405.3643
16
17
18 Date: April 16, 2017
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
STATE OF OREGON, )
) Multnomah County
) No. 15CR52961
vs. )
BARRY JOE STULL, )
) Pages 759 - 785
______________________________________________________________

FRANTZ, Judge of the Circuit Court, Thursday, January 5,
2017, at the Multnomah County Courthouse, Portland, Oregon.
APPEARANCES

1021 SW 4th Avenue
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 988-3162

Hillsboro, OR 97124
(503) 648-0707

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
GENERAL INDEX
VOLUME 26 of 26
State sentencing recommendation........................... 759
Defense sentencing recommendation......................... 761
Judge's ruling............................................ 779

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
759
1 PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JANUARY 5, 2017
2 -O0O-
4 MR. MCMAHON: And good afternoon, Your Honor. Again,
5 Eamon McMahon for the State, M-c-M-a-h-o-n, bar number 153879,
6 here in the matter of State v. Barry Joe Stull, 15CR52961.
7 Defendant is present out of custody. He's representing himself
8 pro se and is assisted by legal advisor, Mr. Kevin Kelley.
10 MR. STULL: Good afternoon, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Good afternoon, Mr. Stull.
12 MR. KELLEY: Good afternoon, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Mr. Kelley, good afternoon.
14 All right. So this is the time set for sentencing in
15 this matter. Do you have a recommendation, Mr. McMahon?
16 MR. McMAHON: I do. And just very briefly for the
17 record before I got into the recommendation.
18 Mr. Stull indicated yesterday that he did not wish to
19 waive his 48 hours, but he did agree to the hearing being set
20 today.
21 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Yesterday, he wanted --
22 oh, not to waive his 48 hours, right, correct.
23 MR. McMAHON: Correct. He said he wasn't going to
24 waive 48 hours.
25 THE COURT: Right. That's why we set it for today.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
760
1 MR. McMAHON: Exactly. So even though we're still
2 within 48 hours, State's position is that that does constitute
3 -- his consent to have the hearing today does a waiver of the
4 full 48-hour period.
5 THE COURT: Well, it was at the request of Mr. Stull
6 and his counsel set it today rather than tomorrow. I would
7 have been fine with setting it tomorrow, because I'm quite ill,
8 but I set it today at your request.
10 THE COURT: So I'm not quite certain why this is an
11 issue.
12 MR. McMAHON: It was -- I was talking with it about
13 someone and they said that just for -- to clarify the record on
14 that, so I figured I'd try to do that, so...
15 THE COURT: All right. Well, it was at the request
16 of Mr. Stull with his legal advisor present that they wanted it
17 today. And it was interested -- in conjunction with the fact
18 that he needed to appear before Judge Roberts, Mr. Kelley need
19 to appear with him. And so --
20 MR. KELLEY: Mr. Stull tells me he is fine with being
21 sentenced today, Your Honor. He has no objection to that.
22 THE COURT: That was your request, so I assumed that.
23 MR. McMAHON: Okay. State's recommendation is two days
24 jail. Mr. Stull had 79 days in jail. He would receive credit
25 for that automatically. Because of that, the State's not asking

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
761
1 for probation. State's not asking for any additional conditions.
2 THE COURT: Right.
3 MR. McMAHON: Two days jail. Thank you.
4 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, you have a right
5 to make a recommendation as to what your sentence should be.
6 You also have a right to speak before sentence is imposed. And
7 since you're acting as your counsel, I'm advising of both those
8 things at the same time.
10 I'm coming from the informed position really ratified
11 when I was a Portland Community College student in 1996, and I
12 had a teacher, Warren Cook, who at the time was employed by the
13 Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. He had 30 years' experience
14 with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. And I took his
15 classes, which were part of the criminal justice certificate
16 program at Portland Community College Cascade Campus. I took
17 those classes as an elective, and one was called Police, and
18 one was called Corrections. And Mr. Cook started both of those
19 classes with the statement, We don't have a justice system, we
20 have an injustice system. If you need to know anything more
21 about that, he said, I recommend the book, The Rich Get Richer
22 and the Poor Get Prison.
23 I had already known that. And I didn't set out to
24 spend the next 20 years of my life proving that he was right.
25 But at the time, among other things, he was citing the now

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
762
1 completed in 2004 and mothball Multnomah County Wapato Jail.
2 There's been some recent discussion about opening it up for a
3 homeless shelter. That'd cost the taxpayers $50 million to
4 build. Shows that our misplaced priorities. We now have
5 people sleeping and dying outside in the cold weather.
6 I myself have overcome that. I obtained my housing
7 after I sued join in Federal Court for violating the Fair
8 Housing Act, because I was housed in 2005. My non-profit
9 landlord filed a 30-day no cause eviction matter, which was
10 prohibited from even being filing -- filed in court. I
11 appealed that. And as my appeal was pending, I was locked out
12 in violation of a state pending appeal.
13 In 2006, my landlord illegally removed and destroyed
14 $20,000 worth of my property from 4066 Northeast Grand, which
15 last I checked in I believe September of 2016, had been vacant
16 2014, 2015, and 2016. That landlord was funded $8 million by
17 the City of Portland. At the time, they were keeping this
18 affordable housing inventory vacant the very place where they
19 illegally removed and destroyed my property, including my
20 medical marijuana garden authorized by my neurologist,
21 Dr. Grimm, who as I mentioned yesterday, I had a Supreme Court
22 case and Dr. Grimm had a Supreme Court case. And if I looked
23 at my -- his qualified him as an expert witness by the Oregon
24 Supreme Court, Jennings vs. Baxter Healthcare.
25 So when I talk about my neurological condition and the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
763
1 understanding of it, how it operates, how it's life-threatening
2 under the conditions that we've heard about, how I need to have
3 emergency medical treatment, I'm never, ever going to overcome
4 the fact that Portland, Multnomah County -- the Multnomah County
5 Circuit Court, the Multnomah County District Attorney's Office
6 has, in fact, turned homelessness into a profitable industry in
7 the City of Portland.
8 At the time of this trip -- trips, as we know from the
9 trial in this case, to Emanuel Hospital, I'd been a crime victim.
10 That happened at Hazelnut Grove, which is a homeless camp
11 authorized by the Mayor's Office. I went there. Had to call the
12 police because it was such an unsafe environment. They
13 responded. That sickened me. I went to the emergency room
14 Friday, as we know, November 20th, treated, no problem, and then
15 we have what we know was a 20-minute delay of me getting an
16 ambulance from my place.
17 Now, if we were to just look at the experiences that
18 I've been through, one is, no criminal record, excepting arising
19 from a 1989 marijuana bust, where I made it part of the record
20 that the Portland Police gave their confidential, reliable
21 informant, which I named as Elizabeth Susan Johnson,
22 (indiscernible) some money to inform on me. Ms. Johnson is now
23 a drug counselor. Her most recent arrest this century were for
24 possession of heroin, false information to a police officer, and
25 theft.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
764
1 So I know that the City of Portland and the Multnomah
2 County District Attorney have been knowingly working with known
3 criminals against my interest for decades. As I stand here, my
4 neck hurts because my head was scoured on the paving stones at
5 Lewis & Clark College where they knew I was an alum. They knew
6 who I was. They came to court, testified I didn't have ID,
7 which I did. And they crossed the -- the various witnesses
8 from the college did confirm that I, in fact, did have my alum
9 ID and I did, in fact, have my State of Oregon ID. And they
10 knew who I was when they pushed me out the doors, dragged me
11 across the paving stones and intentionally scoured my head on
12 the paving stones. And my neck hurts right now, and that was
13 in 2010.
14 My tooth is loose, the front, where I was punched by
15 Paris Collins when I had a restraining order against him.
16 Responding police officer, who was involved in a homicide, world
17 famous Tony Leroy Stevenson, was an off-duty security guard who
18 was strangled, a chokehold, resulted in even more egregious and
19 famous making and selling of the Portland Police t-shirts that
20 said, "Don't Choke 'Em, Smoke 'Em." That officer, knowing that I
21 had a restraining order protecting me against Mr. Collins, and
22 Mr. Collins had violated -- arrested me, I was charged with
23 harassment.
24 I was denied my jury trial under a police that we now
25 know since Judge Brewer in the State vs. Lori Ann Benoit,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
765
1 B-e-n-o-i-t, which I believe was 2012. We know that the whole
2 policy of denying people their access to a jury trial and
3 arresting somebody, then booking them, then the District Attorney
4 elects to -- lower to a violation and you lose the burden of
5 proof.
6 I just on my lunch hour today saw the State's witness
7 in that case, Paris Collins. He's a person with a several
8 mental illness. I've seen him punch himself in the face,
9 across the -- in the park bench over here. And I asked him why
10 he was doing that, and he said, "Because they put her inside
11 me." That was the State's witness against me.
12 So the current pending matters before the Oregon
13 Supreme Court stemming from my arrests. I had a series of
14 arrests in July 2012, July 14th, at Emanuel Hospital. There was
15 some confusion by two doctors. One discharged me when the other
16 one wasn't finished. And Emanuel Hospital security called the
17 police. Portland Police took me to OHSU. The doctor there said,
18 I don't know anything about neurology. I don't a thing wrong
19 with you. And, of course, they're not going to see anything
20 wrong with me.
21 I was arrested. I was over tied handcuffs in the
22 OHSU police car and delivered downtown to the Justice Center
23 Jail in the early morning of the 15th of July 2012. And I was
24 let out of the jail with not only -- not the shoes that I wore
25 into jail, but with none of the coping mechanisms that the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
766
1 taxpayers have provided for my wellbeing: my prepaid transit,
2 my Honored Citizen ID, which would at least give me an
3 opportunity to show people that I have a disability, even if
4 they think crazy -- I'm crazy, they at least known I have a
5 disability if I can show them that Honored Citizen status, have
6 my picture on it.
7 And so I was left when I went to Portland property
8 over the weekend, I went through Portland property on Monday,
9 and I couldn't find my goods. Turns out the entire time, they
10 were at the lost and found at OHSU. OHSU had given me a
11 Portland Police property warehouse receipt and kept my goods at
12 lost and found at OHSU, which I discovered in August.
13 But by that time, I had been arrested July 17th,
14 July 17th again. I reported to Troy Thompson. Another fellow
15 I had a restraining order was present and violating the
16 restraining order, as was -- which was identified by the City
17 Hall security guards. He was present. He did have a warrant
18 for his arrest. I notified the police. They came out arrested
19 me, and let him go.
20 As we speak, Troy Thompson is serving a Measure 11,
21 the fellow that the Portland Police willingly allowed to
22 violate my rights and violate a restraining order that I had
23 against him, but which was in full effect, that fellow is now
24 serving a sentence for punching another individual so much that
25 he qualified for a Measure 11.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
767
1 So had things gone otherwise, we wouldn't be talking
2 about Troy Thompson being in prison; we'd be talking about Troy
3 Thompson being dead, because I certainly would have killed him.
4 When I was arrested at Emanuel Hospital, I had to go
5 to court. On my court, had a number of stressful incidents,
6 which resulted in me not accepting the abuse that I was subject
7 to going into the Justice Center.
8 Mr. Kelly and Mr. McMahon heard the witness, the
9 Sheriff's Deputy, a gal who works here. I saw her here in the
10 building yesterday. She testified that regarding the incident
11 which would have been, I believe, Tuesday, November 24th, I
12 took a hostage. I was sitting on one man's foot. I could have
13 pushed him over and broken his ankle. I didn't.
14 I have a neurological condition. It's worse than
15 emotional stress. When triggered by fight or flight, it triggers
16 a series of events that are certainly not going to stop as long
17 as -- as a person with a disability, I continued to be denied my
18 civil rights.
19 So as far as the sentencing recommendation was
20 concerned, I went into custody November 25th with a wallet I had
21 for over 30 years, with all my paperwork, with a flash drive,
22 with case law research on it. Got none of that. It was
23 destroyed while I was in custody. I was held on a felony. I was
24 overcharged, and I was released on that felony on February 9th.
25 THE COURT: Where were those items, the --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
768
1 MR. STULL: Portland Police property warehouse. I
2 never got my receipt that they would be only held for --
3 THE COURT: I see. They were taken from you when you
4 were booked and then you didn't get them back.
5 MR. STULL: Right. So my status is --
6 THE COURT: What were you initially book on? Is this
7 the case before Judge Roberts or?
8 MR. KELLEY: It was, Your Honor. He was initially
9 booked on assault on a public safety officer. Those charges were
10 -- it was later --
11 THE COURT: Oh, it was a Class C felony.
12 MR. KELLEY: -- dismissed and reissued as attempted
13 assault on a public safety officer.
14 THE COURT: All right, I understand.
15 MR. STULL: So -- so where I'm at is, on the date
16 scheduled for sentencing before Judge Roberts, I was presented
17 with a stack of material, which Mr. Kelley and I knew was a
18 discovery violation, and he had a hearing on a motion for a new
19 trial, and that was denied today.
20 So one of the argument is, how would the new discovered
21 information really change anything? And frankly, it doesn't
22 really matter, because as was done in this court in this case, I
23 was not able to raise any of the defenses that I felt I qualified
24 for as to the clear wording of the decision in Marbet says.
25 So I was able to inform Judge Roberts, who sentenced me

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
769
1 to two years' probation, I believe in November, that my
2 obligations under that is I have no Multnomah County Community
3 Corrections supervision fees that I'm able to pay because the
4 Federal Government, I'll paraphrase, with its infinite wisdom,
5 has determined that as a result of my disability, my bills are
6 paid. I have zero income. I'm not paying any fines. If it goes
7 to the Department of Revenue or the State of Oregon, then when my
8 Social Security benefits come in, the taxpayers will pay those
9 fines. And that's not going to matter to me at all.
10 And so we can't really expect me to do any more
11 sanctions as far as jail time. That wouldn't be permissible
12 under the fact that I was booked under this case accidentally or
13 inappropriately. That's what the record says and I'm sticking to
14 it.
15 So there's virtually nothing that this Court can do
16 that's going to change what I'm going to do. And what I'm going
17 to do is this. I'm going to file a notice of appeal as soon as
18 the judgment is issued on Judge Roberts' case. I'm going to file
19 a notice of appeal as soon as the judgment is entered in this
20 case. I'm going to move to consolidate those appeals. And I'm
21 going to focus the appeal on these two cases on the fact that as
22 a person with a disability, I was denied the defenses that Marbet
23 clearly articulates. We cannot allow the Government to act
24 illegally in the process of prosecuting somebody.
25 And so what I anticipate is going to happen, is I'm

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
770
1 going to take this matter up with the Bureau of Labor and
2 Industries, Civil Rights Division, where it shouldn't be a
3 surprise hearing the litany of things I said already, that I went
4 there -- to their office, was arrested for criminal trespass, was
5 found not guilty at a trial before Judge Immergut, and today I
6 still have that criminal trespass exclusion.
7 So the places I have trespassed exclude --
8 THE COURT: Mr. Stull, I'm sorry. You said you have a
9 matter pending before Judge Immergut?
10 MR. STULL: No, no, no. I was found not guilty at
11 trial after being arrested for criminal trespass --
12 THE COURT: Oh, and Judge --
13 MR. STULL: -- at the state office building.
14 THE COURT: In Judge Immergut's court. Okay.
15 MR. STULL: Right. She found me not guilty.
17 MR. STULL: However, as we have seen even in this case,
18 that when I was arrested by the -- excuse me -- when I was
19 arrested by the Emanuel Hospital security guards on November 14,
20 2011, I was taken into custody and wasn't charged, but they still
21 kept the trespass exclusion.
22 I was arrested at the Bureau of Labor and Industries
23 Civil Rights Division. I was found not guilty at trial.
24 I was arrested at Lewis & Clark College, no conviction.
25 Each of those places -- Bureau of Labor and Industries Civil

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
771
1 Rights Division, Lewis & Clark College, and Emanuel Hospital --
2 have first charged and arrested me. And second, not been able to
3 get a conviction, and I still have trespass exclusions.
4 Well, without taking Mr. McMahon's characterization to
5 the jury that I think I'm being persecuted, I'll defer to what I
6 said a few days ago when I said regarding my civil remedies, that
7 I'm one person you can find that has two cases dismissed. When
8 those cases were delayed by mail, addressed to me from the Court
9 being inappropriately stamped "returned to sender, unavailable to
10 deliver," which I know, because it gets easier the second time, I
11 went to the Post Office Consumer Affairs, and I found out I was
12 at no fault at all.
13 The case where Lewis & Clark College campus safety
14 scoured my head on the paving stones, Judge Marcus' order for a
15 new trial on his own motion, depicted how they had perjured
16 themselves and they said that they treated me with -- not to
17 quote him, but to paraphrase the concept -- they treated me with
18 kid gloves when, in fact, they intentionally dragged me across
19 the paving stones and scoured my head on the paving stones, as
20 was evidenced by the booking photo. You can see this part of my
21 head where I still have a slight scar.
22 The one thing that all these individuals and all these
23 agencies have in common is (indiscernible) went to Lewis & Clark
24 College Law School. As I was appealing the eviction, which was
25 filed by a Lewis & Clark College Law grad, the damages or the

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
772
1 contempt of course case was assigned to a Lewis & Clark Law
2 School grad, Judge Edward Jones, who allowed them, even though he
3 knew that they had committed perjury in the Court of Appeals and
4 said that the apartment was empty when it wasn't. I brought in
5 Portland Police and Multnomah County Sheriff Deputy witnesses
6 that testified that -- what they portrayed as the landlord in the
7 Oregon Court of Appeals as my appeal was pending, that it was all
8 on July 13, 2007.
9 We knew on that day that the landlord had acted
10 illegally. The same one that's been keeping this affordable
11 housing vacant. The same one that got $8 million from the City
12 of Portland in 2013. That same landlord was able to say that the
13 apartment was empty and a couple days later, the Sheriff went in
14 and got my long dead medical marijuana plants from that empty
15 apartment. That's in one affidavit. That's on one page. That's
16 what qualifies for evidence in this courtroom -- this courthouse,
17 excuse me. I didn't want to say this courtroom. I wanted to be
18 more general.
19 So I'm a social justice activist. I'm going to go over
20 to the Bureau of Labor, and I'm going to be arrested, and I'm
21 going to try to draw the connection between the ongoing
22 corruption. I appeared in this case. Mr. Kelley was present
23 when I went before Judge Edward Jones after he recused himself
24 and he still made a ruling in my case. So I cannot be shed of
25 this ongoing illegal activity.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
773
1 The Chief of Police, Mike Marshman, is a personal
2 friend of mine because he's seen me endure this for years. In
3 the case with the City Hall arrest, the officer who overbooked me
4 and put me in that felony charge, which I couldn't get shed of.
5 In fact, Your Honor, these things are so egregious that
6 after the landlord illegally destroyed $20,000 worth of my goods
7 in 2006, the ultimate finality of that case, the contempt of
8 court, none; landlord-tenant damages, none; jury trial, none.
9 Judge Jones even went so far as to say that the parties allowed
10 him to determine the damages when, of course, you know I would
11 never do that. I don't give up my civil rights, especially to a
12 jury trial.
13 So he hijacked the case. He created such a bogus
14 order, a check for $4,775 was issued by Gale's Creek Insurance in
15 2010.
16 Now, if we can project what October 2016, not so long
17 ago, and May of 2020, that seems like a long time. That's like
18 three years from now. So I was locked out of my apartment
19 illegally. They destroyed my goods, offered me a check for a
20 quarter of what was destroyed in broad daylight, with all the
21 witnesses possible. They left me a check for a quarter of that
22 through their insurance company. That's insurance fraud. That's
23 perjury. And it's all ongoing retaliation because I simply have
24 a disability that's treated by cannabis.
25 And we have an opiate epidemic in the United States,

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
774
1 and cannabis is a reasonable alternative to that. You can grow
2 it in a window box.
3 So this is all about money, and it traces back to my
4 original statement that we don't have a justice system; we have
5 an injustice system.
6 So it's not healthy for me to get out, as I did in this
7 case, wearing my gym shorts and t-shirt at 2:30, as I sit there
8 watching the reader board in the Justice Center jail saying that
9 I qualify for release on recognizance and knowing that, okay, I'm
10 released on recognizance, 12:30. The last bus to my house
11 crosses the Burnside Bridge at 2:00 a.m. I get released at 2:30.
12 The next bus to my house is 5:30, and it's 38 degrees,
13 and I'm outside looking at all the homeless people. People are
14 dying outside. We have vacant affordable housing by the agency
15 that this non-profit, supposed to be meeting affordable housing
16 needs, partners with the City of Portland. Maxine Fitzpatrick
17 was present in July 13, 2007, when her attorney said in open
18 court on the record, he had warned her to go to jail for contempt
19 of court. She didn't. I did. Not for contempt of court; for
20 everything but.
21 So before I take any more of the Court's time, I think
22 I should get a $1250 fine for this case, because that would
23 continue to cap how outrageous this all is. I got out of jail at
24 2:30 in the morning, 38 degrees. I went, as scheduled, to
25 Portland City Hall. I challenged the illegal trespass exclusion.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
775
1 We know Joe Walsh had a ruling while I was in custody
2 on a felony that wasn't a felony. But while I was in custody,
3 Sergeant Scott Johnson from Multnomah County Sheriff Internal
4 Affairs is coming through as a corrections officer, and he said,
5 Hey, Joe Walsh won his case. Well, Joe won his case because I
6 told him to go up to the Federal Courthouse and walk down the
7 hall on the seventh floor and get the forms and fill them out,
8 and he did, and he won, and he found that the City Hall trespass
9 exclusion policy that I challenged was unconstitutional on its
10 face. I will prevail.
11 The question is, can I endure? So the course of action
12 that I informed Mr. Kelley that I'm going to take, is Mr. Kelley
13 is my legal advisor. He's going to count up and document every
14 court appearance I made on this case. I think I've been to court
15 from November 25th -- 20th -- well, it would be a Tuesday -- so
16 starting in -- starting the week of -- we'll just qualify this --
17 the week of Thanksgiving 2015, I think I've been to court some --
18 well over 20 -- approaching 50 times. I've been through -- I
19 think Mr. Kelley is the fifth legal advisor I've had on this
20 case, or fifth court-appointed attorney I've had on this case.
21 And none of it's going to change.
22 In 1996, when I was still on parole for that marijuana
23 case, I got an award from Governor Kitzhaber. I graduated from
24 Portland Community College with a two-year degree and a one-year
25 professional music certificate. I transferred to Lewis & Clark

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
776
1 College, went there. My first semester was in 1997. I entered
2 there as a dean scholar. My case hit the Supreme Court.
3 1998, my second semester at Lewis & Clark College, case
4 hit the Court of Appeals on remand. Those two case opinions are
5 still valid and still being cited. Oregon Supreme Court cited
6 Stull vs. Hoke in 2016. They haven't had a chance yet in 2017,
7 but I anticipate that they will.
8 When I returned my second of two years at Lewis & Clark
9 College, my major requirements were increased. I was taking an
10 overload of credits because of that. I forgot a book bag a day,
11 I gave a blood, had a concert, and the bus driver found it,
12 returned it to campus safety at Lewis & Clark College, and they
13 put it where it got stolen.
14 Now, it wasn't the same campus safety officers in 1998
15 that scoured my head on the paving stone in 2010. It was just
16 the same people that acted with impunity knowing that they could
17 get away with it.
18 I don't have anything more to say. I'm not going to
19 pay any fines. Those are going to go to the Oregon Department of
20 Revenue. And frankly, if I was to pay those fines, the best way
21 I would find to pay those fines is with the $1,000 cash and the
22 $3800 worth of growing equipment that I had seized prior to a
23 forfeiture ordinance in 1989. And at sentencing, Tad Everhart,
24 Deputy District Attorney, said, Your Honor, Mr. Stull's going to
25 get this stuff back and I imagine we're going to have to pay him

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
777
1 what he has coming because we don't have a forfeiture ordinance.
2 You should impose a big fine, he said to Judge Gallagher. And
3 Judge Gallagher said, No, I'm not imposing a fine.
4 And so I filed a motion for return of things seized,
5 and I cannot get an appealable order. I can't appeal that
6 motion. It's an unsigned order. It's in the Multnomah County
7 Circuit Court records now for over 20 years. It's going to be 25
8 years, and I can't get an appealable order into the record, but
9 we can come here yesterday and schedule this hearing today. It's
10 a one-way street. It's faulty.
11 I've never gotten medical treatment for my neurological
12 condition, even in the 76 days in custody. I had to cope by
13 walking stairs to generate endorphins.
14 Multnomah County Health Department, Dr. Patsy Kullberg,
15 authorized me under the Oregon Medical Marijuana Act. It's not
16 in my Multnomah County Health Department records. And when I
17 tried them to correct those records, they refused. They said it
18 never happened. How could it not happen? We have the Oregon
19 Medical Marijuana Program card issued with Dr. Kullberg's
20 authorization saying that she worked at 426 Southeast Stark
21 Street, fifth floor. Multnomah County refuses to acknowledge the
22 reality.
23 When I appeared -- my appointment with a neurologist
24 here in, I'm going to say, 2014, I believe it was. Might have
25 been 2015. But anyhow, he recommended that I be authorized under

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
778
1 the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program. And I said, can you sign
2 for me? And he said, no, because I'm not your primary attending
3 physician.
4 So I went to Outside In where the doctor had sent out
5 that recommendation and I was told them by them, no, we don't
6 participate in the Oregon Medical Marijuana Program.
7 So the problem we have is, it's impossible for people
8 of modest means to get access to the medical treatment. I
9 certainly would not defend this case, which I say is still
10 without merit, I would not bring in an emergency room doctor
11 simply because the Multnomah County District Attorney's Office
12 refuses to exercise prosecutorial discretion and let this case
13 go. I'm not going to bring in a doctor who's supposed to be
14 helping and healing people into this environment, which is not
15 designed to help and heal people. It, in fact, does exactly the
16 opposite, and I am proof of that.
17 So the only course of action that I can take is to say,
18 as I've said all along, I'm going to exhaust my civil remedies.
19 I am trying to ward off a violent revolution that we certainly
20 will have if these abuses continue. We'll have people dying in
21 doorways while our affordable housing providers are getting
22 funded and keeping property vacant.
23 The fact that I personally have an interest in that --
24 my life's work, the research for the book manual I was writing,
25 that was in a -- that was in the contempt of court filing. We

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
779
1 know that the landlord knew I was writing a book when they
2 destroyed my research.
3 But what was that book about? Well, it was about one
4 thing, political corruption, and the other thing, cannabis
5 history.
6 I see the state seal when I come into court, 1859. One
7 thing, it was the year for the most production of cannabis hemp
8 in the United States. And the second thing, it was one first oil
9 wells drilled in the entire world. I see a cannabis covered
10 wagon. I see arriving steam ship as an introduction to our
11 fossil fuel age, which we now know in many circles, is actually
12 killing our planet.
13 So we're not going to have any type of society that I'm
14 going to continue to want to engage in any capacity. This is not
15 my city. My city's not this vicious. This is Mr. McMahon and
16 Mr. Underhill's city. They've created this.
17 When I ride my ride here this morning, and I see the
18 invasive species plants, the utter entirety of the Banfield-Mens
19 light rail path, I see all the people camping there, it's not my
20 society. My society's decent.
21 Nothing further, Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Stull, the sentence that
23 the Court imposes is two days' jail, credit for time served, all
24 fees waived.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
780
2 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. And I don't know
3 that we need to proceed on the record. We currently are.
4 But regarding the time in and out of the jail, I do
5 have statements of custodies that I've had prepared. I still
6 can't get the Multnomah County Sheriff's to do an accurate one.
7 But I do have the time codes in and out which show that
8 during that period of time of July 14th, 17th, 17th, 19th, and
9 19th, there was no way that I had any opportunity to have any
10 rest, any access to medical treatment. In fact, I was arrested
11 at the Health Department because I was so sick I got off on the
12 eighth floor instead of the fifth floor where I had an
13 appointment.
14 So I'm happy to allow your clerk to photocopy those
15 just as a personal matter because of your interest --
16 THE COURT: I'm sorry, put a copy what?
17 MR. STULL: Oh, the Multnomah County statement of
18 custodies that show -- earlier -- whether we're on the record or
19 not, and I don't say we necessarily have to be on the record --
20 you mentioned the fact of having a concern or an interest in
21 knowing that the jail was letting people out in the middle of the
22 night at the time the TriMet was not operating.
23 THE COURT: I'll just state, Mr. Stull, I was chief
24 criminal judge for 18 years, and one of the raised concerns --
25 well, there were many concerns, but one --

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
781
2 THE COURT: -- one of the concerns which I actually
3 pursued and Sheriff going back -- I believe Sheriff Knowly (ph)
4 was the one who corrected this situation, was not letting people
5 who had a mental illness out in the middle of the night. It did
6 not go so far, as I reflect back on it, that no one would be
7 released in the middle of the night because the way the jail
8 works is 4:00 is a critical hour when they count how many people
9 are in.
10 MR. STULL: Well, the (indiscernible).
11 THE COURT: And when beds have to available for those
12 who are being brought in.
14 THE COURT: But that being said, so the policy doesn't
15 go so far as to there being a prohibition against anyone being
16 released in the middle of the night, but it remains a significant
17 concern to me as a judge that individuals not be released in dire
18 weather conditions and when there's no transportation available,
19 because it's just creating a situation where you become -- that
20 person becomes vulnerable to the elements to unsavory individuals
21 who are out in the middle of the night, can become a victim and
22 end up being in a situation where a crime could be committed.
23 So that's why I was so interested in knowing that that
24 had happened in that weather condition at that time when there's
25 no transportation. So it remains a concern to me.

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
782
1 I don't have the authority -- I'm not chief criminal
2 judge now. I transitioned out of that position about a year ago.
3 I don't have the authority to tell the Sheriff's Department what
4 to do, but I've always worked very closely with them in that
5 position, and they have always, I believe, tried to be as
6 responsive as they can under and all the pressures that they have
7 about management of individuals in our custody system. But it is
8 -- remains a significant concern.
9 MR. STULL: Thank you, Your Honor. And I'm not alone
10 in thinking that people should not come out of custody worse than
11 they went in, whether that's gangs that are formed in prisons or
12 people learn crime techniques (indiscernible) or any of those
13 things are just being subject to -- oh, I heard recently folks
14 talking about the Coffee Creek, which is a women's correctional
15 institution, which you might assume I had nothing --
16 THE COURT: Well, but everyone who goes --
17 MR. STULL: -- you know, nothing to do with, but --
18 THE COURT: -- to prison is --
19 MR. STULL: -- the problem --
20 THE COURT: -- processed through Coffee Creek, men and
21 women.
22 MR. STULL: Oh, I'm --
23 THE COURT: They go -- everyone goes there first.
24 MR. STULL: But as far as the -- you know, women in
25 custody have sexual -- sexual assault or sexual abuse. And, of

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
783
1 course, any -- it's just -- an illegal -- you can't have a
2 consensual, sexual relationship between a corrections officer and
3 prisoner inmate. It's just fundamentally illegal.
4 THE COURT: You are absolutely correct about that.
5 MR. STULL: Because it's abuse of power, so we know
6 that.
7 So these are concerns. And with all due respect, when
8 I did -- every time I do custody -- in fact, when I was in
9 custody in November -- in December of 2015, I was investigated by
10 a Multnomah County Sheriff's Deputy because of an investigation
11 on sexual abuse of a prisoner that was -- my participation in
12 that complaint process was at least enough that a Deputy came to
13 my cell to interview me about that.
14 So I am -- yeah, I do want you to know that as much as
15 I'm who I am in these processes, I am a social justice activist
16 and it is with the best interest of society that I take these.
17 And as I mentioned, I do have an ongoing, friendly relationship
18 with our new chief of police, Mike Marshman. And it's no secret
19 that I characterize this landlord as organized to him and prior
20 to that, Chief Olgay (ph).
21 So if I am not able to share what's going on with our
22 leaders -- with our public officials, then they don't have that
23 insight. And so I am somebody that has really no victim except
24 for these types of things where we certainly don't have any
25 extensive property damage. The only property damage I've done is

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
784
1 to police cars, which is really a product of me venting at --
2 escalating adrenaline, I know --
3 THE COURT: Well, Mr. Stull, I'm --
4 MR. STULL: -- I know I can vent that.
5 THE COURT: -- I'm going to state that --
6 MR. STULL: But I do want to look at it, yeah.
7 THE COURT: -- that you are a very bright man. You're
8 very passionate about your endeavors. You clearly are a social
9 activist. And I applaud your endeavors, to channel that in a
10 positive direction. And we may have some differences about how
11 that is channeled.
12 MR. STULL: Sure.
13 THE COURT: But you have great capacity to really make
14 an impact. And I wish for you and for this community that that
15 can be done in a very constructive way. So I --
16 MR. STULL: I'm trying my best, Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: So good luck to you.
19 MR. KELLEY: Thank you, Your Honor. Hope you feel
20 better.
23 (Proceedings concluded at 2:55 p.m.)
24
25 ///

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643
785
13 Salem, OR 97302
14 970.405.3643
15
16
17 Date: April 17, 2017
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Salem, OR 97302
970.405.3643

Barry Joe Stull Archive: 67134 - Transcript

Uploaded by

Document Information

Original Title

Copyright

Available Formats

Share this document

Share or Embed Document

Sharing Options

Did you find this document useful?

Is this content inappropriate?

Copyright:

Available Formats

Barry Joe Stull Archive: 67134 - Transcript

Uploaded by

Copyright:

Available Formats

Transcript

Transcript Checklist for 67134

Questionnaire returned? Yes No

Designated dates transcribed? Yes No N/A

Consecutive pagination? Yes No

Plea transcribed? Yes No N/A

Pretrial hearing(s)? Yes No N/A

Audio/Video exhibit(s)? Yes No N/A

Voir dire (if designated)? Yes No N/A

Opening statements? Yes No N/A

Closing arguments? Yes No N/A

Jury instructions? Yes No N/A

Verdict? Yes No N/A

Sentencing? Yes No N/A

FOR THE COUNTY OF MULTNOMAH

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS ON APPEAL

BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled matter

FOR THE PLAINTIFF-RESPONDENT:

FOR THE DEFENDANT-APPELLANT:

Barry Joe Stull, Pro Se (out of custody)

Kevin Kelley, OSB #033539

Weber Reporting Corporation

1 PORTLAND, OREGON; THURSDAY, JUNE 30, 2016

3 (Call to Order of the Court at 9:38 a.m.)

4 MR. STULL: Your Honor, Barry Joe Stull. I'm not

5 a member of the bar, so I didn't come up and get in line,

7 THE COURT: Okay.

8 MR. STULL: -- but it's my turn.

9 THE COURT: Okay. And how did you decide it was

11 MR. STULL: I was waiting in line, but I didn't

13 THE COURT: Oh, you were keeping track --

14 MR. STULL: And I don't need to be reprimanded for

16 THE COURT: I'm not reprimanding, I'm just --

17 MR. STULL: You haven't, but I'm saying it's my

19 THE COURT: -- I'm just asking you what -- so --

20 MR. STULL: This gentleman knows that --

21 THE COURT: I see. So you reserved a -- I got you.

22 MR. STULL: I'm trying to be kind, Your Honor. I

23 have a case number.

24 THE COURT: Okay.

25 MR. STULL: 15CR53749.

Weber Reporting Corporation

1 THE COURT: Yes.

2 MR. STULL: And I'm reading that from the back of

3 Mr. Kevin Kelley's business card. Apparently, he might be

4 assigned to be my legal advisor this morning.

5 THE COURT: Okay. And --

6 MR. KELLEY: Good morning, Your Honor.

7 THE COURT: Yes. And you actually have two cases.

8 MR. STULL: Right. I didn't read the other one.

9 The other one's tracking with this one.

10 THE COURT: Yes. 15CR52961, yeah. Okay. And so

11 we had this on the docket, what, last week, I think?

12 MR. STULL: Right, just two.

13 THE COURT: Yeah, and so we needed to appoint a

14 new legal advisor.

15 MR. STULL: Right.

16 THE COURT: And so we've done that now. And

18 MR. STULL: I just met Mr. Kelley. I thought you

19 were going to tell me who it was and -- but --

20 THE COURT: Well, you met him beforehand. You're

21 way ahead of me this morning.

22 MR. STULL: Maybe -- I don't know how -- I don't