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Leonen (L)

Calida (C)

L: When did the government arrive with the 30% with Justice Jardeleza?
C: Actually I just read this afternoon

L: Just arrived with the goal of martial law, 30% degrading, only this afternnon?
C: Yes
L: Binding the commander in chief?
L: Committing to the court of degradation of 70% as a goal this year and this is the position
of the govt
C; Yes
L: Binding Duterte?
C: No answer
L: I dont see that here
C: I will explain to him what happened here and will revert to you
L: The president has his own mind, his own goals. You are alter egos and adviser to the
president --
L: Therefore you cannot commit to this court?
C: Yes, because it came from the military group
L: This 30, was this discussed to the congress?
C: I wasnt there
L: It was in the statement of the secretary (Lorenzana) but the congress did not push and
ask what is the goal of 1 year
L: So possible to have a extension in 2020?
C; Yes
L: 2021?
C: yes
L: 2022?
C: Yes hopefully
L: So this is the new normal in Mindanao (Martial law) Considering that the rebel has been
resilient for 50 years
There will still be kidnapping (redo?) -- are u telling the SC that the extension will not only 2,
but 3, 4, 5, 6

C: It depends with the policy of the 30% degradation which will start this year, if we cannot
attain it, why not
L: but it is not the goal of the commander in chief
L: Correct? Not yet?
C: I cannot predict the future

L: All intel reports and conclusion are validate?


C: Accdg to the military, yes
L: when presented to the CIC, is it value dated specially? HE is the commander in chief he
shall act with very specific validatedo? is not that correct
C: No personal knowledged but i trust our military

L: And when it is presented to congress, on a matter as significant as ML it is likewise


validated
C: Yes

L: How do u explain incosistencies, incomplete statements, the incongrution of redo and


kidnapping in the report that was just submitted to the SC to support the extension of the
ML
C: It was corrected your honor, it is clerical errors, it is human

L: Human?!

L: We went thru alot of submission attributed arson, a feud, kidnapping to rebellion is not
that correct?
C: I have not read that but i was given now the correct data, and submitted and explaub

L: Submitted to the congress, the ones that you gave to the supreme court?
C: To be candid, i was not able to read the statistics

L: Possible that it is diff that what was given to the conngress and was given to us
C; Idk

L: I am 100% sure, in fact, General Lorenzo presented to us that the ppt he presented to us
is more detailed than what he submitted to us, correct?
C: Yes

L: because the congress came before us, it is entirely possible that what was given to cong
was different
C: That is possible, but i have no personal knowledge on that

L; Sufficiency of factual basis must require some level of credibility and consistency,
correct?
C: Yes but it has been rectified

L: Consistency and Credibility, agree w me?


C: Yes, thats the ideal

L: A while ago, it was mentioned that ML will be lifted if treat groups will no longer "impose
their will on the people" -- this is Gen Lorenzo, correct? During the presentation
C: Yes

L: "Rebellion will no longer exist when rebellion groups will no longer impose their will on
the people"
C: Y

L: So we are saying that threat groups imposed


C: In those indicated
L: In all brgys you mentioned
L: I saw the SPMS box and Municipalities, saying that threat groups imposed their will
C: I have no personal knowledge
L: Is it not the position of the govt that the entire abu sayyaff group are all rebels?
C: The way their acting theyre not only rebels but also terrorist

L: No only looking at rebellion, terrorism is different


L: are they all rebels
C: No answer
L: How many fraction?
C: atleast

L: are they all rebels? some POV, theyre criminals and they just do kidnapping and thats
all? in the name of some pseudo religion which is not really Islam. In any case, is it the
postion of the govt that all fraction of the BIFF are now affliated with the DI?
C: Thats what i heard, Ive gathered

L: All faction of the rebels?


C: I have no personal knowledge

L: Lack of detail that was presented to the court about these groups and made to appear as
if all them carried the same ideology. BIFF especially
L: Would you know where toraife comes from?
C: Can I ask my clients
L: They pulled out the BIFF and created their own group

L: There were 12 monthly reports given to us, were this all furnished to the senate?
C: I think so

L: The addresee is only the speaker of the hoouse, was also the senate?
C: both houses

----

C: I was informed that they submitted 3 copies: OP, HoR and Senate
L: I notice that in the submission given to us, there was no receiving stamp

L: Official receipt letter - acknowledgement receipt with tracking, recieved by, date and time
received

L: What is the date receipt


C: March 14, 2018

Asking for the periodic reports

The 424 members, 473 fireamrms - abu sayaff


Sulu Tawitawi zam
138 brgys

3.0 rebels for each brgy


we declared martial law because there are 3 rebels in each brgy?!
Did we deploy a whole division to sulu?

The information was just given by the military and we just put it in the comment

He claims that 75 manuever battalions are found in Mindanao

30,000 army

575 abu sayaff


range against very highly qualified

DO YOU NEED MARTIAL LAW OF THE 575 groups

is it not sufficient that the military has been deployed and called out the armed forces

We quoted the Maria Sison, this numbers did not come from the military, i dont know where
you got these numbers

CPP-NPA is a nationwide movement

Yes it has been waging war

they can always transfer to Visayas or Luzon

Probably but accgd to the military abt 50% of their strenght is in Minsanado

but ml is not declared in Luzon and Visayas, so they can always transfer

C: I cannot guess what their intentions are

if you hit one side, they can always move to another, correct?

C: yes

In your statement, there is no intention to create a cali faith but join a global insurgency

WIth the Debuckle with ISIS in cyria, nearby islamic state, go global, in middle east

May I request an explanation of that statement and existing state of Mindanao

-------
Sufficiency on factual basis - requires atleast the information is credible, consistent and
complete, would u agree?

Yes

To be credible, the sources of information are transparent to the court and that the
validation process is air tight

Yes

When the submission to this court, is incomplete, incosistent or unrelated to the matter at
hand, that is the existence of rebellion or invasion, then there is no presumption of govt
regularity, is that not correct?

Would u agree w me that in S18AVII, the requirement of declaration of ML or the


suspension of PWHC is not only that rebellion exist but there is a certain degree of
rebellion?

Yes

Prior to the ML, if only lawless violence that happens, or agrupation of lawless violence, the
Military is not prohibited to call out the military

Yes

Would u a gree that the degree of judicial review, or the scrutiny that is involved when the
president as cic calls out the armed forces is less than when he declares ML?

Yes

Battle of hearts and minds, I heard it so often, do you recall where it came from
In vietnam by a certain Col. Lansdeil when inaguarted the anti insurgency, using an
occupying force

This requires winning hearts and minds

Several military plants,

created the concept of balikatan, whole of nation approach, not only military but also
civillian

Military action alone

Calling ML, LGU cannot do it


The danger there, ML is only exingent
ML is intended temporary

1600 communist
575 violent extremist
can be taken by good governance

Yes

and martial law is ante thetical to good govt

We never gave civillian opportunity to catch uo

WITHO
CHECK POINT
BUS POINTS

Saluday vs People - 2018 under Carpio

ATTENDANCE oF LGU

who is more scary

Series of programs to counter violent extremist and serious program to build good
governace than ml

yes

it will always recur without good governance

drug trafficking -- by ML?

is it in proclamation 216

in the paragraphs
Maute and the Marawi Conflaguration

in the reports given to congress


and the drug reduction

this court is not court is not concerned w/n people pray


Lagman just saw the reports this afternoon and not aware and there is no report that
anyone was apprehended due to rebellion

When we try to find out if there are acts in furtherance of rebellion we have to make sure
that it is not only the agrupation of lawless violence attributed carelessly to rebellion and
must make sure that it is actually rebellion

Yes

It is the duty of the SC to look at seriously the factual basis

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