You are on page 1of 10

LEWIS EALTZ W TH VIARVN HEIFERMAN

N OCNVERSATICN
Thirty five years after it apened withaut fanfareat the George
EastmanHouse in Rochester,N.Y.,a reconstituted versian of the
"New Topographics"exhibition,centered on a selection of 140
phatographs fram the ariginal shaw, is destined for bigger audi-
ences o/r a three year lang internatianaltour.
arganized by EastmanHouse curator WilliamJenkins in 1975, "New
Tapagraphics:Photographs of a l\,4analtered Landscape" featured
the wark of Rabert Adams, Lewis Baltz, Bernd and Hilla Becher, Joe
Deal, Frank Gohlke, Nicholas Nixan, Jahn Schotl, Stephen Shore
and Henry Wessel,Jr. Their modestly scaled, mostly black and-whit-a
phatographs of urban, subLtrban,commercial and indLtstrialdevelap
ment seemed uncamfortablyaustere,at first,ta membersaf an art
phatoq!aphycommLtq;tJ sttuggltngta ga;n culldal 1!actrcqln theil
radical break from the ramantic and symbal-heavy work of midcen-
tury image makers like AnselAdams, Minor White, Harry Callahan
Fl;otPa1pr. Nr.A Topoqapht,s photoqraph-rsperlect-d an
"nd
U.det-tdl-d, "lust-lha-ta.t- photoqapht. Slyl- !o b-ltp! !pqp aql d
postwar warld in which the "landscape" was routinely and profitably
b-,ng plowed undct. , a, vpd up aad pa. Aag-j ,6al 6sraie
lnspired and embaldened,in varyingdegrees,"" by the deadpan and
mare conceptualphatographic wark af artistslike Ed Ruscha and Rab
ert Smithson,New Topographicsphatographyemerged from the long
shadaw cast by 196Assteet phatography.But unlikeLee Friedlander
and Garry Winagrand,who extracted visuallysyncapatedimages from
urban chaos, or DianeArbus, wha created all toa human partraits, the
NptATopaqtdph;.sphotag.lphpt- ha"p to mal- p', turc<;nd <eem-
ingly neutral style. For the most part, they tuned their backs an bath
hubbub and the sublime, gat inta their cars and headed toward autlying
adt
ond o v q l a o ^ a d r t t a 5 . lp a t tq g th p Co n t o[ e<S ]\ tr ttC
- n tta n s -^? -
and traditianal"cancerned"phatography far behind.
Or so it seemed at the time. Jenkins, the first champion of this work,
described it in the ariginal catalague as eschewng "beauty, emation,
dnd apnton. Naw.;n h;nd<tght.;ts pa .tblp rc rct;si! the Aorl and
interpret it differently.ln her insightful
essa\ /o/ the cata/oguelhaLaccom
La:\.,r r Eir :,r lP2a n'a:t:i
panles lhis "New Topagraphics"
i/:ii. alrf Cotl)a)raira.r show, Britt Sa/vesen,curator at the
iri',rilI [Jir]r(d/rlryilr. Las Angeles County Museum of Arl,
A !,rarls r tha :a)rar:rTfc takes a retrospective,nuanced laok
lite\r,'rr Lsti t lrarksfaar at the cantent of the wark and cultural
r, , ,riaO:l
. lr)rfir'-..1/i. at ar : ill
:r \ier ]| -t il bj, ! r ., res cantext af the period. EastmanHouse
ll,..irr.lel-:rstr'ra r I la,-r:r-. curatar Alison Nardstram,in another
essay for the catalogue, charts the
e^htbilrcas ascenLham ull Laneat-
mythological status,and explainswhy
CURRENTIY ONV EW it's now hailed, by some, as nothing
Ir,irJr T! iai! G ih rn:
Plr.r1.r.tr1plrs il a l\'1all\tereal less than a paradigm shift in cantem
Lafalsa,-rlic aLtlra:Lo..iA rlc irs porary photography.
Co.|rt! [1.]seul-_ n'A _ t rcLrLllr Having knawn and warked with
Jr iJ rpc r rl irLLr: O. Lc.
f! C eat\,ePl otD!traphy a number of the photagraphersin
T r. so f Feb . l!l the exhibitian,Ithaught it might be

' i .r,rF :,...r. i


IIE I\ATI-JRE
OF IIIJMAI\NAT[_]RE
interesting ta get another take on the
second caming af "New Topagraph-
ics." Sa lcalled Lewis Baltz.Born in
1945 in Newport Beach, Calif., Baltz
spent time in the 1970sin California,
Utah and Nebraska, where he made
the early photagraphs for which he
becameknown. He now livesin Paris:
we spoke an the phone abaut ald
timesand ald work.

MAR V I NHE I F E RM A NAfte rm o reth a n


'h re edec ades .why ' e v rs i -rl -e" N e \4
Topographics"exhibtion now? Does it
reallytake that ong for peopleto get
perspectve on images?
L EWISB A LT Z s . s pe c L3 0 y F a rs .s
a b o u tt 6e t - r ^ ar ou- d ti * e ' o ' -o s 1
things-t me to deveop a new audi.
ence. Most of the peop e who w I see
th s show didn't see it the firsttif.re

I think you know what l'm go ng to


say-l'm realy skepticalaboli the dea
of photographc history.Photography
needsto be seen n a much broader
context,certainy withinthe context
of art, and ln even broadersoc al and
culturalcontextsbeyondthat. To treat
photographyas an independentitem
et .l\, m,\/ m.La <an<a t^ c^ma
^f
becausethat's how th ngs are done
academicalyand that's how careers
are built in universties and museums.
Peoplefind wonderfulareasabout two
mil imeterswide and a rnillionm les
deep to work in. But really,from what
l've seen of photographich stories,
they seldomlook far enoughbeyond
the field and ts se f mposed blinders
to reallysee what kinds of exchanges
there are betweenphotographc images
and other areasof the culture.
MH Lookng back,then,d d the
Aac\E lP14 Fclndaiion Cc/rslrl;aiioll "New Topographcs" work representa
/lan,",l',hrelrrlses, 2492 Kei'/ir ltvire
\'Vorksth s spread ionr 'Tlr. N.,r'] generational shift?Was t a wi lful break
ndLrsl.a Parks around."New Topographcs" or g - made by a group of young mage-
na ly touredto threevenuesover eight makersat a certainpoint in cL]lture,
T.p |P17. E.1sil/,/ali,ll'cslefn Cafpcl
l,4ij::, 1231 t!/arner, li)si t' months,and it's safeto say that ver, and n their ivesand careers?
few peoplesaw it. Therewas on y one LB l as there ever been a t me when
Oppcs te top. |P12 SanttlCa!net, seriousreviewat the time. The New that w asn' t the case? Generat ional
R ccaliAnet ce Carlpanf, 31E1 Topographcs ariistsmade a bigger shi fr i s a pe n' a^e' t condi l o^ O ed
Pirli/nar,CosL llese.
m p re s so n abroad, n H ol and,France, pal , you mi ght say.
Op rcs 1e botiorr /P23r fd^si tln^rr Itay, Japan and, abovea l, Germany. MH Fromyour point of v ew, was that
l'lLcca, Labataicr,e.; 1321 Largle,,, MH In the press releasefor th s recon- the case with your work ln the show?
Casta i\,4esa.
stitutedversionof the show,and in LB Of courseit was. And in reality,t
A mage s:ris art c e L r r es s e s s a y sn t he cal aogue tharaccom was a breakfrom what was going on n
se _oted,aoLrftesy
ol rer\l., tlra al st
a rd Ga ery L! sott. Santaf,4orca.
pan es it, cla ms are made for "New the present,too. The joy of revisionsm
T o o o g ra o'cs"
r bei nga turni -goo' r i 1 is that when we look back on the '60s
photographc history.Was it? now,we havea certainnot on of what
LB Speakingfrom the inside,it's was goingon becausewe've a I seel,
mpossibleto answerthat. First and so manyexhibitions and publ cat ons of
photographsdatingfrom that period.ln most visiblephotographers at the time
the now-official history,the'60s belong would haveincludedMinorWhite,Jerry
"I FELTA REALANGER
to Lee Friedlander, GarryWinograndand Uelsmannand Les Krims.In that cultural
ATTHETRANSFORMATION
DianeArbus,but in fact theirwork was context, "New Topographics"looked like OFALLTHEPLACES
firstintroducedin ihe "New Documents" a pretty radicalapproach. I KNEWINTOSOMETHING
exhibitionat i\.4oMAin 1962 What you MH lf part of the photographicworld INHUMAN. ITWASN'T
saw on the groundin the '60s wasn't back then was celebratingwork that BEINGDONEFORPEOPLE,
that at all. lf you were provinciallike was self-consciously spiritualor gim- BUTEVERYTHING WAS
me-if you we.ent in New YorkC,ty - micky,what elsewas out therethat was BEINGROLLEDOVERFOR
you saw pretty much whal Aperture, lhe interestingor inJluencingyou? THEPROFITMOTIVE."
only slickmagazineof art photography LB Fromthe time I startedmaking
around,published.And what they were any kind of work that eitherone of
interestedin at that time was an esthetic us would recognizeas being mine, ters, '57 Chevys,infiniteparkinglotsl
basedin transcendentalism and a kind I was just lookingat thingsaround my quotidianenvironment.And lwas
of pseudo-spiritualismthat was heavily 'ne -the subJrban,latiocol California, amazedthat this was subjectmatter
influencedby Surrealistimagery.The a world of strip malls,shoppingcen- that neverappearedin photography.lt
was almosta taboo to photographthe
ordinarydailyexistencearoundyou, ali
the thingsthat eventuallywould also
becomeciich6sof photography.
MH When vou began pl-otographing ic
the late'60s and early'70s,were you
fasciraledby tl'e cultureand built envi-
ronmenlaroundyou, or more interested
In passingjudgmenton it?
LB A combinationof both. lt was mind-
bogglingto see the speedwith which
the juggernautof real-estate develop-
ment consumedthe landwhere I grew
up and lived.Beingyoungand naive-
not reallysystemicallyunderstandingthe
:;., dynanics o[ it, not havrrga structLrein
: ,:.i Hegeland lvlarxto plug that into-l had
a sense of outrage about it. At the same
time, lfelt a realrepulsionand anger
about it-anger at the transformation
of all the placesI knew inlo something
inhuman.lt wasn't done for people,but
everythingwas being rolledoverfor the
profitmotive.But I didn't want the work
to oulrageor get preachy.I he bes.
way to deal wlth what I was seeing,I
thought,was to try to show as closely
as possiblewhat it lookedlike.
MH So insteadof pointinga fingerlike
an indignantor "concerned"photog,
rapher,you chose to photographand
presentbanalthings in whal viewers
and writersat the time perceivedto be
a "neutral"kind of way.
LB Neutraiityis a loadedword; it's
somethingyou don't evertotally
achieve.Let's say that comparedwith
much more overtlysubjectivephoto-
graphicstatements,ltried to be unrn-
flected,sinceobjectivityand neutrality
are only aspirations,not something
attainablein the realworld.
MH Or in photography.
LB There,ei ther.B ut some t hings
do tend to be a bit rnore objec-
tive than other things, ln a relative
sense. I thought of my work-espe-

]ANUARY
]O ART NAI.']ERCA97
"I ASSUMEDFROMTHE
OUTSET THATPHOTOGRAPHY
WASALREADY ART,AND
THATIANDOTHERPEOPLE
WORKING IN PHOTOGRAPHY
WEREARTISTS.I UNDERSTAND
NOWTHATTHISWASA
MINORITYPOINTOFVIEW."

ci al y gr oups of im a g e s k e " T h e T ra c t
Hous es "( 1971) a n d" T h e N e w In d u s -
tr a P ar k s "( 1974 )-a s s o me i h i n g i k e
l e galbr ief s ,where y o u l s t p a rti c u l a rs l
th e r e' st h s and t h i s a n d th i s a n d th s .
N, 4y int entwas n' t to d ra w c o n c l u so n s ,
b u t t o pr ov idea b o d y o f e v i d e n c e
u p on whic h s om e o n ePre s u m a b l y
co u d m ak ejudgm e n ts .
MH ln a piec e y ou w ro te fo ( l ma g e
ma gazne lv ol. 17 ,n o . 2 l i n 1 9 7 4 ,a n d
n a pr es ent at ionl h e a rd y o u g i v e a t
Cooper Unlon in N e w Yo rk i n th e mi d -
'7 0s , y ou laid out d e ta i l sa b o u t th e
ma t er ialand ec on o m i cc o n d ti o n s a n d
re war dst hat enc o u ra g e dth e c o n -
struc ton of t he r e s i d e n ti aal n d i n d u s
tri al s t r uc t ur esy o u b e c a m e k n o w n fo r
p hot ogr aphing.H o w i m p o rta n tw a s
it for you to set viewers up with that
ki n d of inf or m at i o n ?O r d i d y o u th l n k
viewers could extract that informaton
as they looked at the work jtself?
L B lt hought t hen ,th o u g h I p ro b a b l y
don't th nk the same thing now, that by
work ng in groups of images,the work
would provideits own context in ways
th a t a s lnge m ag e c o u d n ' t. A s i n g l e
irnagecan be comp etelyaleatoryand
operatein its own universe.lt doesn't
have anything,necessariy,to cross
re ' er a- c e.B ULwil " a g ro u p o t i ma g e s .
you c an c om par eo n e to a n o th e ra n d
see any contradctronsor connections
to be m ade bet we e nth e m. l th o u g h t
that that went some distancetowards
co nt ex t ualzng wh a t I w a s d o n g a n d
g i v ing t a s t r uc t u re .l th i n k , n o w , I h a d
too m uc h c onf lde n c el n th a t.
M H I n r he 1970s, o ts o f p h o l o g ra -
p h er s t alk ed abou t a n d n ra d es e ri e s
o f m ages ,whic h u s u a l l ym e a n tth a t
they'd carved out a way of approach "Homageto the Square"seemedto LB l t' s sori of hyperbol e,but Ed Rus
ng an area of subject matter and go back to biblicaltimes.FrankStella's cha savedmy l i fe.I w as a st udent
e l p or ad il - nt il t h e v g o t' i re d o l L blackpaintlngsattractedattentionin at the San FranciscoArt Institute
What s eem edun i q u ea b o u t w h a t y o u the late l950s and eady 1960s.John and no one i n that envi ronm entwas
were do ng was that you deve oped a Coplans'sinfluen'iialexhlbition"Serial remotel ynterestedi n w h at lwas
d e c ldedlym lnim a la n d m o re ri g o ro u s lmagery"openedat the PasadenaArt dol ng.A round 1967-68,a r enegade
approacn n your worK. N,4useum in 1968.The dea was very A rt l nsti tutei nstructorti p ped m e of f t o
L B T her ewas a g o o d a mo u n t o f d i s - much in the alr. R uscha' sbooks. Fi rst I b or r owedand
cu s s ionabo! t s e r a l i rn a g e ryg o i n g o n MH Ed Ruscha'sllooks were pub ished later stole them from the Art Inst tute
a t t he t lm e in t he a rts . J o s e f Al b e rs ' s aroundthat time,too. l ,orary., unoerstoodR LrSChd s p'o ect

.: r.,h-r N rr,t ; ( r t:f.t rql?v l


tsrt.J:_- s. tfl

Vew of Ba tz's retrospectve


'R u e s W t h o u t E x ce p to n ,'
Was not my project, bUt there were MH Do you think that what's become showing {center)P/azza
ce rtalnlys im ilar it iesEn. o u g h ,a n y w a y , known as New Topographicswork Signund Freud, 19Bg
3 Cibachromepr nts and
so l could s t op wor r yi n gth a t l w a s a reflecleda need to rethinkhow photog- (r ght) ge at n s vef prints
mi 'ro rir yof one. F us c h a ' sa ' a . o e l - raphymightwork as art? from the ser es 'Fos Secteur
ter ironistthan I could ever hope to LB Yes, if you'llstipulatethat the most 80," I987; at Mi s Co ege
be, and I appreciatedhis sort of flat- A r t G a l l e r yO a k a n d T9 9 T.
importantart movernentin my lifetime
footed way of looklng at things in their has been conceptualart. lf you can
plainnessand ordinariness.lt was, for aliowfor that, I think "New Topograph-
me, sort of photographydegree zero, ics" containedthe first photographic
a n d a bs olut elybr illia n t. work that attempted to absorb and

]ANUARY]O ART N AI'IEF C/. .q9


Above Iracl Hofse #4
1 9 7 1 g - os 16 s i v e r p r n t,
5 ';/sby B% iches
respondto the lessonsof conceptua MH So you didn't cal yourselfa pho- Oppos tc lacl Horse dd
art. Thoughnot itselfstrictlyconcep tographerat the time? I971. ge at n s lver lrr rlt
tua, il was conceptuallydriven. LB preferredto think of mysef as an 5 1,/2
by 8 nclres
MH But was your work from that period artist.Who wouldn't?
made in a photographc contextand for MH Whi e we're on the subjectof how
a photographyaudience? peop e are representedand perceived,
LB l assun,edfrom the outsetthat pho- why s it rhat they so se do'n appearin Topographics"show,which was after
tographywas alreadyart, and that I and your work? a Isuol i eo' D tsotographso'a Van-
other peopleworkingln photography LB I'vethoughtthat when peop e a tered Landscape,"was more directed
were artists.I understandnow that this appear n a picture,they automatically at revealinghuman naturethan nature.
was a minoritypo nt of v ew. are perceivedas the subject, rrespec- LB Natureis about human nature.
MH lt was at the time. tive of how they are represented.In Nature,as we use the word, is a fa rly
L B t hink t was jm p o rta n tto s o me , ry w o . k, l w anted Lheo-l y person r recenthumanconstruct.The def ni-
b a ck t hen, t hat t hi s n e w p h o to g ra - the plctureto be the v ewer.For better lion of -nar-re l^aspretty m-cf always
p h y' ail. T he phot o g ra p h i cw o .l d [e L or worse,I was creatng some sort of been up for grabs.Or, in acadernic-
that its private dornainwas being microcosmuniverseand then nvitng cnoaL hao h66n "^^ntaet6/! "

-vaded by out s id e rsw h o w e re g o i l g peopleto enter it and, by enteringit, MH In the processof lookingat ano
to br ng in c r it er a th a t i t h a d n o to coffrpletelt. The fact that it wasn't a respondingto real-estatedevelop-
n te r es t n and, m a y b e , n o a b l ty to very nvitinguniversesn't losi on me. nrent,which some peoplewou d say s
d e a l wit h. I r em em b e rth a t fo r s o m e In one sense,I can understandwhy a nasty process,you made exquisitely
C a l if or niaphot ogr a p h ys h o w n th e peop e were worked up about it. beautfu pictures.Was that anotherone
1 9 80s ,s om eone ^ i e rv e w e d q o b a rl MH Evenwhen the structuresyou pho- of your goals?
Fi c ht er ,who des crl b e dth e p h o to tographed n the 1970shad doors and LB wa^.ed lae viewerto see every
co m m unt y as be n g l i k e a o v e l y l l ti e wlndows,some viewersfelt that li was detail,to be ableto read the imageas
su n - dr enc hedG r e e k i s l a n d .l th o u g h t hard to get "lnto"these images. c ear y and closey as Possble. But I
th at was r eallygen e ro u s .l th o u g h t LB You'reconstanty confrontedwith a so knew f I renderedwhat I saw in
i r -or e A ppalac h' arh a n Sa -to r r-i : wals that were there,in part, to con- very high definiton, it would automat
so m e dank m ounta i nv a e y , w h e re ceal what was happeningbeh nd them. ca ly look seductve.
b rot her shav e bee n s c re w i n gth e i r MH To that end and I don't rernember MH And yet, you chose a 35mm cam
s st er s f or gener a ti o n s a , n d e v e ry - f I came up w th this mysef or read it era ro do LFat.W hy di dn t y ou wo'[
b o dy t alk s a lit t e b i t fu n n y . somewhere-your work in the "New with a largerformat camera, ike so

tif !R- |]!lrlFFar trN!,1Rv ta


-l

ma n y of t he New T op o g ra p h i cp h o - mrg h ts h ape a p ece of musi c. " The ".NEWTOPOGRAPHICS'


to g ra pher sd d? N e w In d u stri alP arks,"for exampl e,
L B Oh, l' m a laz y bas ta rda n d h a te
CONTAINED THEFIRST
S e e m sto move al ong at a consi s-
ca rryingar ound ar ge , h e a v ye q u p - te n t a n d cl i pped pace, w hi l e i n " P ark
PHOTOGRAPHIC WORKTHAT
me n t. k now m y s elfw e l l e n o u g hto c ry th e -e a' e d s i t ' I move.neT ts,
ATTEMPTED TO ABSORB
kr o w i' ' t s adt o s t oo rh ^ . a . d -d g e t a s w e l a s radi ca shi fts i n feel i ngand ANDRESPOND TOTHE
o u t to s et up a 4x 5 c a m e ra , ' d p ro b - mo me n tum.P erspecti veschange LESSONS OFCONCEPTUAL
a b y l d ll^- . / S e ' out o l o o n q d n v t^ rn g . fro m a e ri alv ew s to cl ose-ups;yoL ART.THOUGHNOTITSELF
Pl u s,f or a t he nonse n s ew l tte n l o o k u p , then dow n, or gaze off i n al l STRICTLY CONCEPTUAL, IT
a b o u t v ew c am er as ,I fi n d th e m a fo u r d i re ctons. can' t thi nk of other WASCONCEPTUALLY DRIVEN."
Pa rn n t he nec k . s e i e s o ' rdgas rhat ooe Jl e qL re
MH Th ink ng s om e m o re a b o u t th e l i k e th a t. lt' s l ke you got to be both
l o o k o f t he wor k , d d w h a t y o u w e re S te v e R e ch and P h i p cl ass. series,show ng plots of land on the
a i L e r.hang- f r or r " T h e I a c l H o J s e 5 LB What a generouscomparison.The h ls de stakedoff for development.The
to "Th e New ndus t r i a lP a rk s "to 51 imagesin "The New IndustrialParks" magesstart mov ng in, and then at one
"Ne vada"( 1977)t o " P a rkC ty " (1 9 7 8 )? took loreverto sequence,because point the movingin becomesradica.
LB Yes, and the answerto that s I wantedthe ser es to seem circuar n the second part of the series,you're
dumb. stood further and further away. and not haveany kind of narrative.l insidehous ng under constructlonlook
MH Bec aus e. . . ? discovered,ear y on, that f you take i ng out, or not l ookl ngout.
LB BecauseI wanted to nc ude more a group of photographs,shuffe them MH W hen you concei vedof these
sweep, I wanted objects to be re ative likea deck of cards and then ay them ser es, d d you pl an w hat you wer e
l y l e ss m por l. lr n t h e fra re . l w a - e o out, they appearto havea narrative.I goi ng to do i n advance?
a se n seof t hingss ee n n w d e r a n d did everythingI cou d to deconstruct LB l'veneverstartedanythng withoutan
deeper space. wanted,to use the (Jesus,how I hatethat word) narra- absolutely clear dea of preciselywhat I
Germanterm Abstand-wh ch is just t ve. "ParkC ty" was a d fferentand, at was go ng lo do. And l'veneverfinished
distance, n both sensesof the word. doublethe s ze, a much rfore amb by fo lowingthatfirst deathrough.
MH And as y ou as s e mb l e dth e s e tious project.But it's also circuar in MH A nd w i th regardto photo- editng
-a r p c o' p6ot ogr apF sh o w d rd y c - structure.The last photographin the and seq!enci ng,how l ong a f t er t hese
d e ci d e t o edit and s e q u e n c eth e m ? seres, wh ch looksat a rea -estatemap i magesw ere shot d d t take f or pr oj
It's a ways seemed to me as if yoL pinnedup on a wall,cou d very well ects to reachthe r f na form?
worked at that the way a composer be a referenceto the firstimage n the LB A l l the w ay throughthe pr oject s,I

illr
t-t-t
.,I'VE
THOUGHT THAT ng to gaze back at nre. I realizedby
1989that l'd reallydone my work.
WHENPEOPLE APPEAR MH Yourwork or that New Topograph-
INA PICTURE, THEY cs work?
AUTOMATICALLY ARE LB Certainlythe New Topographcs
PERCEIVED AS THESUBJECT, work. WhateverI was ab e to contr b-
IRRESPECTIVE OFHOW ute to that kind of photography,I had
THEYARE REPRESENTED. a readygiven.Someoneelse m ght
I WANTED THEONLY find more to do, but I didn't.Afterthat
PERSON INTHEPICTURE I wantedto changeeverythlng,so I
TO BE THE VIEWER." c fa rg a d l i vesand l ctra^gedcounl ri es.
contlnents,my way of working.The
rnorphology,productionand, more
w a s as s em bling,ed i ti n ga n d s e q u e n c - importantly,the output of the work has
ing imagesas lwas photographing. changed.N/ostof what l've done over
MH And as you were doing that, what the past 15 yearshave been public
ult mateform did you want the work to commissions s te-generated,often
take, and why? ephemeralresponsesto s tuatlonsthat
LB I thoughtthat was so se f-evdent. wou d make no sensesomeplaceelse.
Books.Books are relativelydemocratc. Work not intendedfor the market.
lJyou want your work to be avalableto MH So, the photographythat made you
anyonewho s interested,few though famousbeganto feel restrictive?
that might be, books make more sense LB I didn't want to becomea guy who
than exhibitons of or ginal prints.Books walkedand crawledaroundhousing
are durable,and the imagesreman as I tracts for the next 25 years,turningout
sequencedthem. Books don't get bro more of somethingthat I alreadyknew
ken up and sold separately,as bodies now to maKe.
of my work so often have been. MH When the "New Topograph
MH Do books providevlewers a bet- ics" exh bitionfirstopened,you were
te r oppor t unit yt o u n d e rs ta n dw h a t a readyshowingin ga leriesand Tnuse
you were up to? ums. Did the exhibitionchangethe way
LB I believeso. lt was only when I did a peop e lookedat photographs,and
retrospective exhibitionat PS.1 [in New yours ln particuar?
Yorkl in 1990that I gavea lot of thought LB lt was branding,really.Peopleseem
to installlngwork on the wa l. In a book, to be able to receiveinformationmuch
it's a ways one thing afteranother,after more easilywhen it's been put together
another,after another,which can make in a packageand labeledfor them.
a very uninteresting galleryexperience. MH Dld that packagingopen up oppor-
Or sometimesa very interestlngone, tunitiesfor each of you, or did lt mean
because t's so damn austere. rnaLarr srs r the show we'e faLedto be
MH l'm fascinatedwlth people'slevels lumpedtogetherin a group?
of w llingnessto pay attenton to photo- LB Whilewe knew and respectedeach
Park Ctt\/N,1 19i9.
graphson a wall,partlcuarlysmal ones. other'swork, we hardlyknew each gc ai. s ver pr nt
LB lt worksin certains tuations,when other.We weren'ta group.We dldn't slreetI by l0 nclr-os
theres alreadyvererarionand a reve go out dr nk ng, hang out, go on vaca
encefor the work. f you put 30 early tions together,sharestudios,swap
Wa ker Evanspieces up in a straightI ne w ves you know,none of those great
on a wall and in the most unaffectedway, "traditional"th ngs that characterlzed
peoplew I probablyspendtime looklng movementsfrom the lnrpressionists to work, but not enough to constitute
at each one, becausethey have a ready the AbstractExpressionist painters. w hat you' d cal l an audi ence.
madeup the r mjndsthat thiswork is MH Wheredid supportfor the New MH W hat n' adeyou go' o G eo"gaf asl-
important,even beforethey'veseen it. Topographicswork come from? The man Housew th the work?
MH Wereyou evertemptedto sizeyour aud ence nterestedin ook ng at and LB At that t me, there were only two
printsdifferentlythan you did? ta king about pictureswas certa nly dif- p aces to show work. One was East
LB No, not until I did. ferent30-odd yearsago. man House.Van DerenCoke,the new
MH A nd t hen,why d d y o u ? L B T h e audi encew as i nfi ni tesi ma, directorthere,likedmy work, bought
LB Becauseby the mid '80s I was get- almost nonexstent.The photogra- it and showed t. Threeyoung curators
t ng tiredof what I was do ng. I wanted p h y a u di encedi dr' l i ke i t. oerhaps there-Bil Jenkins,who curated"New
to see what elsewas possible.I d dn't becausethey mlstakeny beljevedit Topographlcs," Tom Barrowand Bob
realze untilthe end of the 'Bosthat I'd was addressedto them, and lt clearly Sobieszek-were nterestedin anythng
used up my own abl ty to work with thai wasn't. lthink they resentedthat. they perceivedto be a radica departure
k nd of subject.l'd been looking nto an Therewere occasionalpeople,some from what was being done.
abyss'or 25. 30 yea's.And it was star' a rti s tsand deal ers,w ho l ked the MH f EastmanHousein Fochesterwas

r:: iit \ 1]l.,Lfiitr i|]Lrrr l


one placeto go to show work, what u e to n a k e w ork w i th si mi ar contant Co organzed by the ceorge Eastman
was the other? House, Rochesier New York,where t
lormat and attitude. opened[June]S-Oct 4, 20091ancithe
LB lt was MoMA. Everybodyhad to LB lt's like rock'n' roil that will never Centerfor CreaUvePhotography, Tucson
makethe pilgrimageto MoNlAand die, even if it should.l've got to admit 'New Topograph cs: Photographs of a
sit down and hope to God somebody N,4an-Atered Landscape' s currentlyon
that when it was announcedthat "New vrewat the Los AngeeS CountyMuSeum
would buy one of your picturesfor $25 Topographics"was going to be recon of Art [throughJan. 3]. lt traves to the
so that you could then give them some slituted, I had some real misgivings. Centerfor CreativePhotographyIFeb.T9
others.And that was about it. lt was a N,4aybe this is all best left as mytholo- May T6l,the Sa| Francisco lluseum of
ModernArt [Juy 17 Oct 3] Landesgaerie
differentworld. gy. Maybethe show will havethe effect Lnz, Austria[Nov.10,2010Jan. I
MH Amazingto think about that. of demystifyingit, which is probabi, 20lll. Photographrsche Sam.nung
LB Not everythinghas gottenworse. necessary.lt certainlywon't change StiftunglrultrJrCo ogne [Jan.27 Apr.3.
MH Think ingabout pr o g re s s ,l ' m 20111, Jeu de PaLrmeParis[Apr.1T
o r p ro l o n gthe l i vesof the peopl ew ho J u n e T 2 ,2 0 1 1 1t h e N e d e r a nd s
continuailyamazed at the long-term a re i n i t, w ho are al l getti ngol d. A nd Foiornuseum Rotterdam[Juy 2-Sept.11,
impact of the New Topographics th e w o rk ? l w oul d guess that l i ke any 2 0 1 1 1a, n d B l b a oF n e A r t s M u se u m
work. Everysemesterthat I face thing that gets put into the pipelineof INovember201TJanuary20] 21.
anothercrop of graduatestudents, it's h i s to ry .i t wi Jlhaveups a1d dow fs: MARVINHEIFERMANis curatorof
startlinghow long a shadow the work p e ri o d sw hen peopl e i gnorei t and clck photographychangesevery
throws, and how many picture-makers despise it, and periods when peopie th ng (www.cick s edu),a Smithsonlan
re ma inunder it s inf lu e n c ea n d c o n ti n PhotographyInt ativeprolect.
will rediscoverand overvalueit. o

IIN .T AR]lY AR r N A [ 1 E i t C / 1] ! :

You might also like